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Ganael Hartsong
Shadow State
The Bastion
0
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Posted - 2015.05.08 19:01:14 -
[1] - Quote
I feel kind of bad opening a topic for such a niche issue, but here it is.
First I must specify that I am a null-sec, multi boxing miner. I don't do afk mining, but I like when things line up nicely:
Currently, the hulk has 8500 m3 of ore hold.
With a set of T2 mining crystals and max rorqual boosts, you get enough room to hold 2 full cycles, which is perfectly fine. I feel like this was designed on purpose and that's ok.
But it seems like it didn't really take into accounts mining drones.
Within this 2 cycles duration and with a set of 5 mining drones, you mine just over 8500 m3 (something silly like 8550 m3), causing your strip miners to stop, forcing you to drag and drop every cycle instead of two.
At least this is the case with exhumer lvl 4 and T1 drones standing right next to an asteroid. I'm sure it is also the case with exhumer lvl 5 and T2 drones.
Mining drones, and mining in general, don't get much love, and this doesn't concern many people, but I feel like a slight buff to the hulk ore hold up to 9000 m3 or even more, would make them more attractive, and solve what seems to be an oversight in the ship design in the first place.
Thanks for reading and for any input you may have. |
Iain Cariaba
1335
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Posted - 2015.05.08 19:36:33 -
[2] - Quote
Stop using mining drones, deal with having to empty every cycle, or mine wth fewer accounts at once. You're not going to get a lot of sympathy for a repeatedly shot down suggestion that is little more than a way for you to more easily multibox mining.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
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Naga Tokiba
Tokiba Inc
18
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Posted - 2015.05.08 20:09:41 -
[3] - Quote
I totally agree.
Hulk ore hold has been nerfed too small over the years.
I would suggest hold to be big enough for 3 cycles (incl drones). |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2477
|
Posted - 2015.05.08 20:18:29 -
[4] - Quote
the hulk doesnt need a buff. It was designed to be a high maintenance mining barge, not a multi-boxing isk printer.
Replace one hulk with a mack. problem solved.
dont use mining drones. problem solved.
mine in a fleet with other players. Problem solved.
Get better at multi-boxing. Problem solved.
All without having to change the game to tailor to your personal play style.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Ganael Hartsong
Shadow State
The Bastion
0
|
Posted - 2015.05.08 20:26:32 -
[5] - Quote
Stop using the things that are in the games (hulk, mining drones) doesn't strike me as something that would be pertinent.
Maybe i shouldn't have suggested 9000m3 or more. I would be perfectly glad with 8650, as long as it can hold at least 2 full cycles.
It's not about fitting my playstyle, it's about things making sense and lining up the way they should. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2477
|
Posted - 2015.05.08 20:38:07 -
[6] - Quote
why does it need to hold 2 full cycles? because youre trying to multi-box with something that was designed to be more intense to manage.
It is absolutely about fitting it to your playstyle. No one who mined at their keyboard with their friends in a fleet had trouble keeping up with their strip miners.
But CCP changed the mining amount bonus to a mining speed bonus, so that the hulk could hold two full cycles from its strips to pander to multi-box miners already.
Use the right tool for the job. if you cant keep up with your strip miners, change one to a mack. (the mack is still in the game you realise right?)
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Ganael Hartsong
Shadow State
The Bastion
0
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Posted - 2015.05.08 21:11:16 -
[7] - Quote
You seem very angry. I don't have any trouble keeping up with the cycles. Never said I did, too. Everything else I already answered. |
Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel
The Kadeshi
1409
|
Posted - 2015.05.08 21:17:37 -
[8] - Quote
So, why should CCP increase the the hold volume?
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
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Ganael Hartsong
Shadow State
The Bastion
0
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Posted - 2015.05.08 22:13:35 -
[9] - Quote
Because it's a shame it can't hold 2 full cycles with max efficiency setup, and only by 50 m3. If the design goal was 1 cycle, then put the hold at 4500m3.
But the design goal was 2 cycles, so make it between 8600 and 9000. |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
635
|
Posted - 2015.05.08 22:22:37 -
[10] - Quote
I agree. It should be able to hold 2 full cycles from all the lasers before yield upgrades, but with max skills, but only the lasers. Considering that this goal is achieved, it is fine.
Talking more,
Flying crazier,
And drinking more
Making battleships worth the warp
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Ganael Hartsong
Shadow State
The Bastion
0
|
Posted - 2015.05.08 22:39:33 -
[11] - Quote
I disagree, i think every ship should offer the chance to be used fully. I wouldn't even mind a slight reduction in yield instead of a ore hold buff to fix this problem. |
Iain Cariaba
1338
|
Posted - 2015.05.08 22:54:57 -
[12] - Quote
Ganael Hartsong wrote:I disagree, i think every ship should offer the chance to be used fully. I wouldn't even mind a slight reduction in yield instead of a ore hold buff to fix this problem.
Use it properly then.
Just because you can fit it for max yield doesn't necessarily mean it's how it's intended to be used.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
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Ganael Hartsong
Shadow State
The Bastion
0
|
Posted - 2015.05.08 23:01:25 -
[13] - Quote
Nice troll. Please move along. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2131
|
Posted - 2015.05.08 23:02:54 -
[14] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:So, why should CCP increase the the hold volume?
Because the Hulk should match the Skiff for ore hold Volume.
Hulk = High volume.
Mack = High hold.
Skiff = High tank.
This would give each of the barges a single thing they excel in while the other things are close or even.
Instead by giving the Hulk to smallest hold you cause it to be the worst exhumer if you rate each of tank, hold and mining rate out of 3. As it is the worst in 2 categories out of 3. |
Ganael Hartsong
Shadow State
The Bastion
0
|
Posted - 2015.05.08 23:05:36 -
[15] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:So, why should CCP increase the the hold volume? Because the Hulk should match the Skiff for ore hold Volume. Hulk = High volume. Mack = High hold. Skiff = High tank. This would give each of the barges a single thing they excel in while the other things are close or even. Instead by giving the Hulk to smallest hold you cause it to be the worst exhumer if you rate each of tank, hold and mining rate out of 3. As it is the worst in 2 categories out of 3.
Although you make a fairpoint, this is not a thread about buffing the hulk ore significantly, but make a slight tweak for it to have a ore capacity that makes sense considering its current yield. |
Kiddoomer
ScrewWork Inc.
37
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Posted - 2015.05.08 23:05:47 -
[16] - Quote
Isn't this ship supposed to be only effective when used in fleet (because it needs a hauler to be efficient) ? So if in a fleet, that DOES mean she should have a boost, and a mining boost if used correctly. And the combat drones of the hulk can't properly defend her against null-sec rats or any kind of other pvp players, so that does mean mining drones are the (not only but mainly) viable option for the Hulk.
This makes me think that the proposition is fine, it's not a even a buff but a adjusment, not a big deal.
A simple survey scanner proposal : post
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Ganael Hartsong
Shadow State
The Bastion
0
|
Posted - 2015.05.08 23:07:44 -
[17] - Quote
Kiddoomer wrote:Isn't this ship supposed to be only effective when used in fleet (because it needs a hauler to be efficient) ? So if in a fleet, that DOES mean she should have a boost, and a mining boost if used correctly. And the combat drones of the hulk can't properly defend her against null-sec rats or any kind of other pvp players, so that does mean mining drones are the (not only but mainly) viable option for the Hulk.
This makes me think that the proposition is fine, it's not a even a buff but a adjusment, not a big deal.
Thank you good sir, for explaining things better than I do. This is very much my point. |
Iain Cariaba
1338
|
Posted - 2015.05.08 23:15:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ganael Hartsong wrote:Nice troll. Please move along.
Nice try dodging the point by claiming I'm a troll.
Simple fact: replace one MLU with a DCU, and you get a drastic increase in tank, meaning those nullsec rats are far less of a worry, and the "problem" of not a big enough ore hold goes away.
So again, use the ship properly.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
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Ganael Hartsong
Shadow State
The Bastion
0
|
Posted - 2015.05.08 23:29:40 -
[19] - Quote
I can also fit it with civilian miners and make the problem go away. Your point is invalid, i think you can figure it out by yourself. Moving on. |
Atomeon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
32
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Posted - 2015.05.08 23:36:00 -
[20] - Quote
I agree with the OP is just ridiculous for some m3 to not be able to fit 2 cycles.
In every other topic when they ask more tank for hulk you all (the ones that never mined) saying "Hulk is for Fleet and m3 monster".
Well that monster is crippled by couple hundreds m3. Give the man the space he needs.
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
1445
|
Posted - 2015.05.08 23:49:17 -
[21] - Quote
Kiddoomer wrote:Isn't this ship supposed to be only effective when used in fleet (because it needs a hauler to be efficient) ? So if in a fleet, that DOES mean she should have a boost, and a mining boost if used correctly. And the combat drones of the hulk can't properly defend her against null-sec rats or any kind of other pvp players, so that does mean mining drones are the (not only but mainly) viable option for the Hulk.
This makes me think that the proposition is fine, it's not a even a buff but a adjusment, not a big deal.
Individually combat drones aren't viable, but in groups, which as you state is the intended role of the ship they accumulated drone firepower should rival that of smaller groups. I'd say combining drone firepower places the idea of only mining drone being viable as a questionable proposition. |
Ganael Hartsong
Shadow State
The Bastion
0
|
Posted - 2015.05.08 23:51:55 -
[22] - Quote
You can have 5 mining drones and 5 light drones in an hulk. So, no problem there. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
1445
|
Posted - 2015.05.08 23:54:42 -
[23] - Quote
Which leaves the argument back at square 1 since the argument was mining drone being the only right choice for the Hulk. On that reasoning alone it doesn't really work out. |
Ganael Hartsong
Shadow State
The Bastion
0
|
Posted - 2015.05.09 00:01:30 -
[24] - Quote
Sorry, I think you should ready what was posted before again. The whole argument does not rely on mining drones being the only viable options for the hulk. It rely on the case that the hulk is missing a couple of hundred m3 to actually have the ore hold to sustain 2 full mining cycles including mining drones.
And you can have both mining and fighting drones in your drone bay, allowing to switch between them if you need to defend yourself. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
1445
|
Posted - 2015.05.09 00:08:04 -
[25] - Quote
Ganael Hartsong wrote:Sorry, I think you should ready what was posted before again. The whole argument does not rely on mining drones being the only viable options for the hulk. It rely on the case that the hulk is missing a couple of hundred m3 to actually have the ore hold to sustain 2 full mining cycles including mining drones.
And you can have both mining and fighting drones in your drone bay, allowing to switch between them if you need to defend yourself.
I responded to a particular point with a counterpoint and your statement afterwards. That was all. Fitting 2 cycles using the full yield capacity the ship has to offer wasn't what I was responding to itself, but rather the idea that mining drones being the "right" choice was a proper justification for that viewpoint. |
Ganael Hartsong
Shadow State
The Bastion
1
|
Posted - 2015.05.09 00:09:27 -
[26] - Quote
Ok that makes more sense. I'm not a native english speaker, so maybe i'm not getting everything that is said. Going back to this argument (of the drone being the only choice for hulk), i think he was simply putting a bit of emphasis to make up his point. Mining drones do in fact make sense for hulks, especially if you have another way to defend yourself (a pvp toon for example). If you don't, it's a trade off (You're basically getting light drones instead of medium one, making battleship sized rats harder to kill) |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
241
|
Posted - 2015.05.09 00:12:19 -
[27] - Quote
While I do not mine very much anymore, and despite that you are part of The Bastion, I have to agree that the ore hold for the Hulk could use a little buff. |
Ganael Hartsong
Shadow State
The Bastion
1
|
Posted - 2015.05.09 00:18:43 -
[28] - Quote
Petrified wrote:While I do not mine very much anymore, and despite that you are part of The Bastion, I have to agree that the ore hold for the Hulk could use a little buff.
Thank you for mending fences, whatever they might be :) |
Shai'd Hulud
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2015.05.09 01:33:58 -
[29] - Quote
I like your suggestion in OP.
+1 for me |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2477
|
Posted - 2015.05.09 02:41:07 -
[30] - Quote
Ganael Hartsong wrote:You seem very angry.
I cry when people lie.
The hulks yield is not crippled by Its ore bay, its only ever a problem when you multi-box with more hulks than you can keep up with. Who said you were supposed to easily multi-box with multiple hulks? For that I refer back to my previous posts.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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