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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
658
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Posted - 2015.05.20 16:40:46 -
[271] - Quote
Find me a NS/LS JF kill with at least 50b in cargo.
Until then, the donut keeps on rolling, EVE keeps on hitting new activity lows.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort
DARKNESS.
60
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Posted - 2015.05.20 19:17:11 -
[272] - Quote
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Considering anywhere from 50bn to 250bn & more in cargo is moved at a time in one JF from invulnerability to invul - the current mechanics are broken and need to be fixed. You don't see pros on the killboard, because it is that safe. Risk/reward etc etc
Uhh... where did you pull those numbers from? Please go find us a km so we can all join in on the ridicule.
And Serendipity, get over yourself and your WHs. Every area of space has it's benefits and drawbacks. WH space has their single system to defend, which they always have their assets ready to defend in place long before an attacker moves in to try and oust them. Null space is always open and controls multiple systems. You can defeat/force out an enemies capital fleet in one brawl and within a short time they can return with twice the numbers.
WH can lock down their system, null, low, and I'll even include empire on this, cannot. Every other area of space within eve is vulnerable to attack 24/7. A cyno can be lit in a null player's quiet pocket and he can quickly find himself dog piled by 50 bombers because a single player with a cyno entered his system. These are threats you may have forgotten about in your time in a WH, but threats that must remain on everyone's mind who resides here.
Null and LS rely on goods being moved to and from HS via JF because of the randomness of WHs appearing in our space make them an unreliable form of transportation, and gate travel through many systems can only be defined as suicide - not risk. A WH residence can roll holes until they get a connection they desire because mechanics require them to respawn after time, it requires a lot of patience and planning, but the travel is safe none-the-less once you get your near-direct hole.
Null and LS get their goods to the HS border by hopping station rings. Any mistake along this path can lead to the loss of everything. Where as when rolling holes only risks an orca or a few BS or w/e is used anymore, it's been a while I'll admit. So please understand, a WH player telling null players about risking assets to move their goods across the eve universe to the desired trade hub is quite seriously a joke and needs to stop. |
Enya Sparhawk
Black Tea and Talons
55
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Posted - 2015.05.20 19:34:49 -
[273] - Quote
Nasar Vyron wrote:The idea of escorting a freighter through HS is in itself a joke.
The attacker must make the first move before you can defend yourself or concord will simply target you as the aggressor, you cannot take preventative actions by wiping out the obvious camp or bumping mach before they create the problem. Bring a webbing ship? Pray they don't realize this and blap it before you can get your webs off. Bring logi? They'll kill your logi then turn their attention to you. Bring more logi? They have a bowhead/orca/corp hanger full of ships to kill off anything you brought and all the time in the world.
Your only hope of survival is a vigilant scout with a full watchlist and a LS cyno. Nerf cynoing on stations and watch HS industry burn.
Would make for some interesting gameplay if you could create some sort of fleet assist modules for this type of 'escort' gameplay...(You have them for mining, why not trade and commerce)
Fíorghrá: Grá na fírinne
Déan gáire...Tiocfaidh ár lá
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Teckos Pech
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
2963
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Posted - 2015.05.20 19:49:24 -
[274] - Quote
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Find me a NS/LS JF kill with at least 50b in cargo.
Until then, the donut keeps on rolling, EVE keeps on hitting new activity lows.
Uhmmm you were the one making that claim...so you should provide the evidence.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
662
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Posted - 2015.05.20 19:51:43 -
[275] - Quote
Nasar Vyron wrote:Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Considering anywhere from 50bn to 250bn & more in cargo is moved at a time in one JF from invulnerability to invul - the current mechanics are broken and need to be fixed. You don't see pros on the killboard, because it is that safe. Risk/reward etc etc Uhh... where did you pull those numbers from? Please go find us a km so we can all join in on the ridicule.
You don't happen to have a mere 568k units of Dysprosium to relocate to Jita, which is the total production from only 7.8 moons? 
You may not be a professional. I'm sorry.
To wit:
12.65 Tn ISK-value destroyed in 1,425 Rhea JFs, or 8.8 billion ISK per kill.
14.85 Tn ISK-value destroyed in 4,201 Charon freighters, 3.53 billion ISK per kill.
People buy JFs to fly empty; Hisec is safe; Nullsec is dangerous with zero cynos from station-to-station.
You see, that's the point - go find such a killmail and try again.
// Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept
//
Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
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Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort
DARKNESS.
61
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Posted - 2015.05.20 22:21:26 -
[276] - Quote
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Nasar Vyron wrote:Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Considering anywhere from 50bn to 250bn & more in cargo is moved at a time in one JF from invulnerability to invul - the current mechanics are broken and need to be fixed. You don't see pros on the killboard, because it is that safe. Risk/reward etc etc Uhh... where did you pull those numbers from? Please go find us a km so we can all join in on the ridicule. You don't happen to have a mere 568k units of Dysprosium to relocate to Jita, which is the total monthly production from only 7.8 moons? You may not be a professional. I'm sorry. To wit: 12.65 Tn ISK-value destroyed in 1,425 Rhea JFs, or 8.8 billion ISK per kill. 14.85 Tn ISK-value destroyed in 4,201 Charon freighters, 3.53 billion ISK per kill. People buy JFs to fly empty; Hisec is safe for freighters; < LS is dangerous with zero cynos from shining-station-to-shining-station.
Maybe I haven't made myself clear by now. I AM one of those people who handle such assets. I am telling you even when loaded down I do not move that much at a time. I am patient, and anyone who does move alliance assets are patient. We have limits on what we are willing to move at a time as to avoid putting all our eggs in one basket if you will. When I get anywhere near what I feel uneasy moving I have a webber, backup webber, and an exit cyno on standby.
Multitudes of precautions are taken even when moving an empty, out of alliance JFs through HS. Those that don't find themselves dead, those that do can even find themselves in some pretty hair raising situations. Such as just last week, was pointed damn near infinitely in HS, I wont say where for obvious reasons. They made a mistake and didn't repoint as their third of fourth tackle died to concord and I was able to spam jump and get out.
I am telling you, there is no sane JF pilot that will carry anywhere near 250 bill in cargo, let alone not being very careful about moving it. Unless of course you're talking about bugged BPCs that show up on kms as BPOs, in which case they still weren't actually carrying that value of cargo. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2457
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Posted - 2015.05.21 06:42:21 -
[277] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:The Eve economy pretty much depends on Freighters and Jump Freighters being 99.9% safe. Do you want everything in the game to cost 10x as much? If you make these ships killable, that's exactly what will happen.
I think everything would be fixed by making all resources more available the further you move away from the galactic center, and also by making industry and trade just as easy if not easier out there, all while not having NPCs to soak up tax ISK on player-to-player transactions. The end result would be that supply chains could be smaller and not intersect with highsec; it would be cost-effective to guard shipments with large gangs; and the value of highsec goods and commerce would plummet, dramatically reducing the need for nullsec to rely on highsec. Players could and would continue to perform commerce in the safety of highsec, but the danger of nullsec trade would come with reasonable rewards.
If the above happened, it would be okay to prevent cynos from being lit within 10km of station docking rings.
A Caldari is just a Gallente who begged to have their civil liberties taken away.
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