| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
TomParad0x
Caldari
adeptus gattacus
Lotka Volterra
   |
Posted - 2006.11.09 14:28:00 -
[31]
Interesting post, i was going to actually do some testing of the Rokh on SiSi but it went into DT.
@Zixxa - Why don't you stop trolling and actually make a useful post? Thanks...
Sig offline till i fix my domain... |
Deva Blackfire
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 14:58:00 -
[32]
VERY interesting post about ECM. It mean that 4x ECM + 2x ECM Rig Curse is still viable option :)
|
murder one
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 15:07:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: Deva Blackfire
VERY interesting post about ECM. It mean that 4x ECM + 2x ECM Rig Curse is still viable option :)
IMO that's a big fat yes. But even *more* evil: 3x damps and 1x ECM burst. With 2x damp rigs. So overpowered it's sickening. Just remember who helped you with the setup when you're flying around pwning everyone ;)
Because I said so...
|
Ernest Graefenberg
Minmatar
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 15:12:00 -
[34]
SiSi Rook Racial :
3.6 * 1.25 (sigdis) * 1.5 (rook bonus 1) * 2 (rook bonus 2) = 13.5 (Exact current ECM strength)
13.5 * 1.44 (2x damage mod) = 19.44
Hello, that's a permajammed battleship for you with a single Racial. That doesn't strike anyone as insane does it ? With rigs, you get to permajam any races non-ECCMed battleships with one Racial and land at a handy 50% chance with an ECCM.
A. SINGLE. RACIAL.
(I'll happily whip up current chances too, but they're ballpark of 66% to jam a BS per racial, which is also stupidly high)
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
VERY interesting post about ECM. It mean that 4x ECM + 2x ECM Rig Curse is still viable option :)
Due to lack of skills I'm still using an ECM curse, currently with speed and grid rigs. Works fine really, although I would eventually switch to damps just for cap efficiency - but on SiSi everybody is injecting and it's like a big buffet of neverending cap (now with 5x med diminishing).
That non-specialized ECM is highly viable with the 50% strength nerf without rigs or damagemods should be some sort of hint about the nature of chance based rolls and the utility of ECM. With SD IV and 4x Multispec with no rigs or damagemods my Curse lands at about 47% chance to jam a battleship per cycle.
|
Deva Blackfire
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 15:13:00 -
[35]
Same. Need to train up damp skills (and didnt know abt damp rigs :D) but if ECM remains as it is i guess i wont even have to bother.
|
Santa Anna
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 15:50:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Santa Anna on 09/11/2006 15:53:53
Originally by: murder one
Here is an example of what I did with the Rokh: I know that ECM is overpowered on Tranq. So what do I do? I try and make a setup that uses ECM as best as possible to exploit this advantage. But ECM has been 'nerfed' right? So I try and "fix" this change and reduce the nerf as much as possible and see if I can still create something viable.
So I look for a ship with a lot of mid slots: the Rokh. I know how to armor tank, and I have T2 large blasters. Perfect fit. I basically fit a Blasterthron setup on the Rokh, but I'm left with two extra mids. So I fit ECM in these mids. Then I figure I'm not going to have to tank much anyway, so I ditch the cap injector and fit an additional multispec ECM. So now I have 3 multispec ECM fitted to what is otherwise a Blasterthron. I have insane range with the Rokh and Null ammo (10km optimal with Caldari BS2) and so I fit an afterburner vs. an MWD.
I manufacture and install 3 Electronics Vise Rigs to boost my ECM strength. All three rigs stack. These rigs, plus skills and my ECM strength is back up to around 4.8-5.0 or so for a multispec. Exactly the same as on Tranq AFAIK.
I think ECM should be completely reworked, but you spent 3 mid slots and 3 rig slots on ECM. You should be able to jam a single target effectively -- otherwise ECM would really be a Caldari-only module rather than a module that everyone can use but Caldari are slightly better at using. I'm guessing you could do the same thing with Damps and (against a turret ship) turret disruptors when your opponent is alone and isn't using appropriate counters.
Chance-based ECM is bad/broken because you can throw one in a random mid slot for an "I win" slot machine, not because you can build a dedicated ship around it and stand a good chance at winning against an unprepared opponent. If your raven victim had a friend your armor tank would have been in a lot of trouble. If he had mounted an eccm or two in his mid slots he would have had a good chance at avoiding the jam.
edit - this was supposed to be in the Rokh/ECM thread but that was locked while I was typing. Not sure how it ended up here.
|
murder one
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 16:15:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg
SiSi Rook Racial :
3.6 * 1.25 (sigdis) * 1.5 (rook bonus 1) * 2 (rook bonus 2) = 13.5 (Exact current ECM strength)
13.5 * 1.44 (2x damage mod) = 19.44
Hello, that's a permajammed battleship for you with a single Racial. That doesn't strike anyone as insane does it ? With rigs, you get to permajam any races non-ECCMed battleships with one Racial and land at a handy 50% chance with an ECCM.
A. SINGLE. RACIAL.
(I'll happily whip up current chances too, but they're ballpark of 66% to jam a BS per racial, which is also stupidly high)
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
VERY interesting post about ECM. It mean that 4x ECM + 2x ECM Rig Curse is still viable option :)
Due to lack of skills I'm still using an ECM curse, currently with speed and grid rigs. Works fine really, although I would eventually switch to damps just for cap efficiency - but on SiSi everybody is injecting and it's like a big buffet of neverending cap (now with 5x med diminishing).
That non-specialized ECM is highly viable with the 50% strength nerf without rigs or damagemods should be some sort of hint about the nature of chance based rolls and the utility of ECM. With SD IV and 4x Multispec with no rigs or damagemods my Curse lands at about 47% chance to jam a battleship per cycle.
I couldn't be bothered running the exact numbers for the Rook, but that's just disgusting lol.
Because I said so...
|
Takahashi Arran
Havoc Inc
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 16:21:00 -
[38]
Originally by: murder one
I couldn't be bothered running the exact numbers for the Rook, but that's just disgusting lol.
no. no its not- the rook has no tank and no dps its ECM is its only weapon- how it that desgusting?
|
Bermag
Point-Zero
Ratel Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 16:24:00 -
[39]
There must be some kind of stacking penalty to multiple jammers on same target. It is when you have many jammers on you that chance based goes from a chance to certain.
6 jammers each with the low probability to jam of 15% (and specialized ECM ships even higher) becomes 62% with 8 it becomes 73%.
ECM is so much more powerful than other forms of EW not only because the result is shutting down a ship totally but also that it does not have stacking penalties (rather the opposite) of using many jammers on same target.
|
Black Scorpio
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 16:34:00 -
[40]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
VERY interesting post about ECM. It mean that 4x ECM + 2x ECM Rig Curse is still viable option :)
IMO that's a big fat yes. But even *more* evil: 3x damps and 1x ECM burst. With 2x damp rigs. So overpowered it's sickening. Just remember who helped you with the setup when you're flying around pwning everyone ;)
1 ECM Burst AAHAHAHHAH, when you're really having all these powerful 6 strength ECM burst, at these incredible 5.5 km range..
Real helper there buddy.. real helper...
|
murder one
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 16:37:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
VERY interesting post about ECM. It mean that 4x ECM + 2x ECM Rig Curse is still viable option :)
IMO that's a big fat yes. But even *more* evil: 3x damps and 1x ECM burst. With 2x damp rigs. So overpowered it's sickening. Just remember who helped you with the setup when you're flying around pwning everyone ;)
1 ECM Burst AAHAHAHHAH, when you're really having all these powerful 6 strength ECM burst, at these incredible 5.5 km range..
Real helper there buddy.. real helper...
Are you Zixxa's alt or something? Both of you make the same kinds of stupid posts. Are you telling me that you *really* don't understand why an ECM burst and three damps will work well together? *snip*
Play nice  - Oiri Yusko
Because I said so...
|
Black Scorpio
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 16:38:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Santa Anna
Edited by: Santa Anna on 09/11/2006 15:53:53
Originally by: murder one
Here is an example of what I did with the Rokh: I know that ECM is overpowered on Tranq. So what do I do? I try and make a setup that uses ECM as best as possible to exploit this advantage. But ECM has been 'nerfed' right? So I try and "fix" this change and reduce the nerf as much as possible and see if I can still create something viable.
So I look for a ship with a lot of mid slots: the Rokh. I know how to armor tank, and I have T2 large blasters. Perfect fit. I basically fit a Blasterthron setup on the Rokh, but I'm left with two extra mids. So I fit ECM in these mids. Then I figure I'm not going to have to tank much anyway, so I ditch the cap injector and fit an additional multispec ECM. So now I have 3 multispec ECM fitted to what is otherwise a Blasterthron. I have insane range with the Rokh and Null ammo (10km optimal with Caldari BS2) and so I fit an afterburner vs. an MWD.
I manufacture and install 3 Electronics Vise Rigs to boost my ECM strength. All three rigs stack. These rigs, plus skills and my ECM strength is back up to around 4.8-5.0 or so for a multispec. Exactly the same as on Tranq AFAIK.
I think ECM should be completely reworked, but you spent 3 mid slots and 3 rig slots on ECM. You should be able to jam a single target effectively -- otherwise ECM would really be a Caldari-only module rather than a module that everyone can use but Caldari are slightly better at using. I'm guessing you could do the same thing with Damps and (against a turret ship) turret disruptors when your opponent is alone and isn't using appropriate counters.
Chance-based ECM is bad/broken because you can throw one in a random mid slot for an "I win" slot machine, not because you can build a dedicated ship around it and stand a good chance at winning against an unprepared opponent. If your raven victim had a friend your armor tank would have been in a lot of trouble. If he had mounted an eccm or two in his mid slots he would have had a good chance at avoiding the jam.
edit - this was supposed to be in the Rokh/ECM thread but that was locked while I was typing. Not sure how it ended up here.
ECM is supposed to be a specialized Caldari EW weapon. As such it is. Otherwise you have to spend too many slots to have a "chance" a slight one at that to jam, where your ship will suffer in defense/offense modules.
|
Black Scorpio
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 16:42:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Bermag
There must be some kind of stacking penalty to multiple jammers on same target. It is when you have many jammers on you that chance based goes from a chance to certain.
6 jammers each with the low probability to jam of 15% (and specialized ECM ships even higher) becomes 62% with 8 it becomes 73%.
ECM is so much more powerful than other forms of EW not only because the result is shutting down a ship totally but also that it does not have stacking penalties (rather the opposite) of using many jammers on same target.
Hello Bermag, apparently you know nothing about ECM. ECM do not stack. You have a chance to jam of a single ECM.
1 ECM of power 10 against a ships with radar strength of 20 has 50% of chance to jam.
2 ECM of power 10 against a ship radar strength of 20 = 2x 50% chances to jam, not a 75% to jam or a 100% to jam.
i.e. regardless of how many ECM you use, it always uses the chance of a single ECM on your target.
Got it?
|
Santa Anna
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 16:43:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Bermag
There must be some kind of stacking penalty to multiple jammers on same target. It is when you have many jammers on you that chance based goes from a chance to certain.
6 jammers each with the low probability to jam of 15% (and specialized ECM ships even higher) becomes 62% with 8 it becomes 73%.
ECM is so much more powerful than other forms of EW not only because the result is shutting down a ship totally but also that it does not have stacking penalties (rather the opposite) of using many jammers on same target.
Giving each jammer an independent roll each cycle is pretty unbalancing. If the ecm strength per cycle were determined by the number of ecm modules on that target (perhaps stacking nerfed) and that was used for a single role that may work better.
I'd rather ECM just cut the effective sig radius of all of a target ship's targets, though. If each ECM dropped target sig radius by 35% or something like that you'd have a very powerful module that didn't leave the target player pounding his keyboard in frustration at not being able to do anything for 2 minutes while his tank breaks. It would also give players a counter to missiles (though really missiles are their own counter outside of pve) and give eccm a role outside of just waiting for an ecm ship to show up (eccm = make target sig radius bigger) while making target painters a bit more useful as well.
|
murder one
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 16:44:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Takahashi Arran
Originally by: murder one
I couldn't be bothered running the exact numbers for the Rook, but that's just disgusting lol.
no. no its not- the rook has no tank and no dps its ECM is its only weapon- how it that desgusting?
Because ONE ECM is basically 100% effective against a battleship? It's not like it takes ALL the ships weapons (ecm modules) to take a battleship out of the fight. It only takes one. Thats like saying I only need to use one gun to kill your cruiser. Completely ridiculous.
Because I said so...
|
Black Scorpio
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 16:45:00 -
[46]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
VERY interesting post about ECM. It mean that 4x ECM + 2x ECM Rig Curse is still viable option :)
IMO that's a big fat yes. But even *more* evil: 3x damps and 1x ECM burst. With 2x damp rigs. So overpowered it's sickening. Just remember who helped you with the setup when you're flying around pwning everyone ;)
1 ECM Burst AAHAHAHHAH, when you're really having all these powerful 6 strength ECM burst, at these incredible 5.5 km range..
Real helper there buddy.. real helper...
Are you Zixxa's alt or something? Both of you make the same kinds of stupid posts. Are you telling me that you *really* don't understand why an ECM burst and three damps will work well together? Surely you're not that dumb.
A ship that has a range of 85km to shoot and with 3 Dampeners that have a stacking penalty will not result in a ship able to shoot only from 5.5km at you, hence no need to get to your 5.5 range ECM burst.
*snip*
Play nice. -Oiri Yusko
|
Black Scorpio
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 16:49:00 -
[47]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Takahashi Arran
Originally by: murder one
I couldn't be bothered running the exact numbers for the Rook, but that's just disgusting lol.
no. no its not- the rook has no tank and no dps its ECM is its only weapon- how it that desgusting?
Because ONE ECM is basically 100% effective against a battleship? It's not like it takes ALL the ships weapons (ecm modules) to take a battleship out of the fight. It only takes one. Thats like saying I only need to use one gun to kill your cruiser. Completely ridiculous.
No, it is not like that my Gallente obsessed friend. Your limited view you present to anyone that see with 1 ECM you can omg jamm a battleship takes only extremes, with the presumptions that:
1. Your enemies all all flying rooks that somehow guessed your type of ship so they fit the proper racial against that type
2. They have MAX levels on all the required skills
3. The Battleship pilot did really not bother to fit an ECM counter being an ECCM, while
4. The ECM pilot has nothing on his ship to either incur enough damage to kill you or tank any ones' damage.
Because of 4, and because you really, really, really .... don't bother to use 3, your whine is simply pointless.
Go whine to some other bunch of people that know nothing about ECM to prove your one-sided and utterly useless points!
|
murder one
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 16:49:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
VERY interesting post about ECM. It mean that 4x ECM + 2x ECM Rig Curse is still viable option :)
IMO that's a big fat yes. But even *more* evil: 3x damps and 1x ECM burst. With 2x damp rigs. So overpowered it's sickening. Just remember who helped you with the setup when you're flying around pwning everyone ;)
1 ECM Burst AAHAHAHHAH, when you're really having all these powerful 6 strength ECM burst, at these incredible 5.5 km range..
Real helper there buddy.. real helper...
Are you Zixxa's alt or something? Both of you make the same kinds of stupid posts. Are you telling me that you *really* don't understand why an ECM burst and three damps will work well together? Surely you're not that dumb.
A ship that has a range of 85km to shoot and with 3 Dampeners that have a stacking penalty will not result in a ship able to shoot only from 5.5km at you, hence no need to get to your 5.5 range ECM burst.
oh, and quit whining while you're ahead with your pro Gallente / nerf Caldari constant blabber... it's just not interesting to anyone but whiners like you with no clue of what's going on...
lol. *snip*. ECM is too effective. Bottom line. The ECM specific ships are too effective. Period. Would you like it if my Blasterthron was able to 1 volley your Scorpion? I think not. *snip*
Please play nicely. -Oiri Yusko
Because I said so...
|
Xoduse
Beasts of Burden
Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 16:51:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Zixxa
Originally by: murder one
No Zixxa, you're the liar. You lie to protect ECM.
You lie, mister-with-native-english. I had writeen one weak ago that ECM is nerfed for ALL SHIPS. Just repeat for you.
Quote:
You ignore the imbalance.
You lie. I do not ignore imbalance. And you know about it.
Quote:
I'm not going to explain it to you. Maybe you should hop on the test server and watch in local as player after player whines about how the LV gang in FFA1 is r@ping everyone with ECM and nos and 'isn't playing fair'.
Numbers, mister! Numbers!(copy-paste)
Quote:
The difference between ignorance and stupidity is that an ignorant person doesn't have all the information, while a stupid person has plenty of information and chooses to ignore it. You are stupid, not ignorant.
You lie, mister, again. And, take some time to check what is the stupidity, because it seems your knowledge of your native language is far from common standards.
Instead of being a jackass and not contributing to the topic at all why dont you go play on the test server and see for yourself?
From what I've seen on the test server the OP is right and game balance in solo/small gang pvp is being traded for 0.3756329 second longer survival time as primary in a fleet battle, which is already boring as hell because it happens at 200km+ and adding the Rokh just reinforces this standard range.
---------------------
|
Black Scorpio
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 16:54:00 -
[50]
Originally by: murder one
lol. It's like talking to a child with you. ECM is too effective. Bottom line. The ECM specific ships are too effective. Period. Would you like it if my Blasterthron was able to 1 volley your Scorpion? I think not. So I'm asking you, in the nicest possible way, please STFU. You don't know what you're talking about.
Your Blastertron CAN 3 volley my Scorpion yes. Which is very close to 1 volley my scorpion.
while My Scorpion cannot even break the tank of your blastertron.
You're asking me in a nice way to STFU ? wow, is there really a nice way to say that? certainly not, who's the kid actually there m8? lol..
and on the not knowing what one is talking about.. you I believe prove with every post of yours that this is you my friend...
|
murder one
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 16:55:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
*useless drivel*
Seems to me quite a few people agree with my analysis of the situation. Far more in fact than anyone who agrees with you. I think you're just trying to cling to your lame ECM use as it's the only way you can compete in PVP. It's like you own T2 Multispec and Rook BPOs or something.
Because I said so...
|
murder one
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 16:57:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: murder one
lol. It's like talking to a child with you. ECM is too effective. Bottom line. The ECM specific ships are too effective. Period. Would you like it if my Blasterthron was able to 1 volley your Scorpion? I think not. So I'm asking you, in the nicest possible way, please STFU. You don't know what you're talking about.
Your Blastertron CAN 3 volley my Scorpion yes. Which is very close to 1 volley my scorpion.
while My Scorpion cannot even break the tank of your blastertron.
You're asking me in a nice way to STFU ? wow, is there really a nice way to say that? certainly not, who's the kid actually there m8? lol..
and on the not knowing what one is talking about.. you I believe prove with every post of yours that this is you my friend...
No way in hell can a blasterthron 3 volley a scorp. Scorps have one of the biggest tanks in Eve. Secondly, a Nos/torp Scorp can easily break any Blasterthron tank. All it has to do is wait. I guess you've never played Eve before?
Because I said so...
|
Santa Anna
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 16:58:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Hello Bermag, apparently you know nothing about ECM. ECM do not stack. You have a chance to jam of a single ECM.
1 ECM of power 10 against a ships with radar strength of 20 has 50% of chance to jam.
2 ECM of power 10 against a ship radar strength of 20 = 2x 50% chances to jam, not a 75% to jam or a 100% to jam.
i.e. regardless of how many ECM you use, it always uses the chance of a single ECM on your target.
Got it?
Black Scorpio, if you have a 50% chance to jam a target with each ecm that means that your target has a 50% chance at not being jammed by each ecm. Because being jammed twice doesn't change the target's situation, it's the same as being jammed once, so the only thing that matters to him is his chance at not being jammed.
Because these probabilities are independent rolls:
P(notjam) = P(notjam ecm1) * P(notjam ecm2) = .5*.5 = .25
So 2 jammers which independently jam 50% of the time together jam 75% of the time.
If you are jamming in something small (ie no instalock after a failed jam cycle) or something that can take a bit of a beating you probably need 3 straight jam cycles to fail to get dead. These cycles are again independent so:
P(get dead) = P(not jam on cycle)^3 = .25^3 = .0156 (1.56%)
With the HP buff you need more unsuccessful cycles to die, say 4 or 5, which would be 0.39% or 0.098% respectively.
Even if you're losing and well into structure, you can warp to safety if an ecm works, so if it'd take 5 cycles for your opponent to kill you you can have a 99.902% survival rate in exchange for using 2 of these 50% ecm units.
I think that's unbalanced, but that's just me.
|
Black Scorpio
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 16:59:00 -
[54]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Black Scorpio
*useless drivel*
It's like you own T2 Multispec and Rook BPOs or something.
It's like, It's like It's like, what? Can't get your words or something? And no I don't have a T2 BPO. I can't stand whiners like you.
It's more like you can't effectively fly a rook tho and you're green with envy aren't you..
Go whine somewhere else..
|
Black Scorpio
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 17:01:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Xoduse
From what I've seen on the test server the OP is right and game balance in solo/small gang pvp is being traded for 0.3756329 second longer survival time as primary in a fleet battle, which is already boring as hell because it happens at 200km+ and adding the Rokh just reinforces this standard range.
Buddy, solo/small gang pvp is not conducted at 200+ range last time I checked. Fleet battles maybe, even there there is different types of ships for each position, tacklers, snipers, EW, etc.
solo/small gang pvp at 200km.. it's more like friends fight with no consequences.
|
|
Oiri Yusko
Forum Moderator
Interstellar Services Department
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 17:03:00 -
[56]
Thread (being) cleaned.
Unconstructive posts removed.
|
|
murder one
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 17:03:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Black Scorpio
*useless drivel*
It's like you own T2 Multispec and Rook BPOs or something.
It's like, It's like It's like, what? Can't get your words or something? And no I don't have a T2 BPO. I can't stand whiners like you.
It's more like you can't effectively fly a rook tho and you're green with envy aren't you..
Go whine somewhere else..
I have guys in my gang that fly Rooks. I ransomed a Vindicator for 1.2 billion last week because my gangmate with his rook was able to render the Vindicator completley useless with one module.
So don't tell me who can and can't use what. You don't think that's overpowered? That one little Rook with one ECM mod can negate 8 billion ISK worth of ship?
Because I said so...
|
Black Scorpio
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 17:05:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Santa Anna
Black Scorpio, if you have a 50% chance to jam a target with each ecm that means that your target has a 50% chance at not being jammed by each ecm. Because being jammed twice doesn't change the target's situation, it's the same as being jammed once, so the only thing that matters to him is his chance at not being jammed.
Because these probabilities are independent rolls:
P(notjam) = P(notjam ecm1) * P(notjam ecm2) = .5*.5 = .25
So 2 jammers which independently jam 50% of the time together jam 75% of the time.
If you are jamming in something small (ie no instalock after a failed jam cycle) or something that can take a bit of a beating you probably need 3 straight jam cycles to fail to get dead. These cycles are again independent so:
P(get dead) = P(not jam on cycle)^3 = .25^3 = .0156 (1.56%)
With the HP buff you need more unsuccessful cycles to die, say 4 or 5, which would be 0.39% or 0.098% respectively.
Even if you're losing and well into structure, you can warp to safety if an ecm works, so if it'd take 5 cycles for your opponent to kill you you can have a 99.902% survival rate in exchange for using 2 of these 50% ecm units.
I think that's unbalanced, but that's just me.
No Santa Ana. Again, you do not have a 75% chance of jamming with 2 ECMs by 50% jam chance, you have again 50% jam chance, it's simple statistic. Same with coin tosses, etc. you have the same chance. not more not less.
And as for warping ,, as you said.. "IF your ECM works". The key word being IF.
|
murder one
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 17:13:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Oiri Yusko
Thread (being) cleaned.
Unconstructive posts removed.
<3 Oiri. I'll behave. 
Because I said so...
|
Black Scorpio
|
Posted - 2006.11.09 17:25:00 -
[60]
Originally by: murder one
No way in hell can a blasterthron 3 volley a scorp. Scorps have one of the biggest tanks in Eve. Secondly, a Nos/torp Scorp can easily break any Blasterthron tank. All it has to do is wait. I guess you've never played Eve before?
I thought the Scorpion had all these "I Win" buttons fitted in the mid slots, oh wait that is only if it relinquishes its med slots.
So which one is it, ECM or tank. If you have flown one, you know that even with 4 ECMs and 4 slots to tank on shield you have far less than "The strongest tank in game" as you said. Not to mention having 4 ECMs hinders greatly your ability to expect effectively jamming someone with Racial when you don't know what are you fighting most of the time. You need at least 6, or even 8 to be an effective all around jammer pilot helping your buddies. Which as you can see kills any ability to tank relying completely on ECM.
Of course if we do not take your .. again limited version, and know EXACTLY whom we're fighting. In this case I agree fitting 4 Racials will have a good chance of jamming.
Although then you ignore the fact that you also would know that you're fighting a Scorp, in which case nothing prevents you to put 4 ECCMs, which trust me, will virtually render the 4 ECMs useless at best! Leaving you with 7 blasters to shread the scorp to pieces...
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |