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War decs vs. noob corps. Is this *real* pirating, or just lame?

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Aerin Suhn	Posted - 2006.11.09 21:52:00 - [1] As this seems to be the forum for pirates, I just wanna get an opinion. I'm still pretty new to this game, although maybe not a noob. I believe pirates are essential to the whole concept, although I myself am probably more a carebear. But something's come up that I don't think is either fair in game terms, or honourable in pirating terms, and that is so-called "merc" corps war-deccing noob corps. The Corp I'm just leaving (as it happens) has about 10 players on at the busiest times, usually much less than that. The highest skilled player probably has 1.5m SP, with the average probably nearer 1m. Main activities are mission running (lvl 2) and mining. Suddenly we get war-decced by a corp with 20 active players, mostly 2-3 yrs in the game. The reason given? "One of your corp members was smack-talking us. Oh, but it's nothing personal." They are demanding 500m ISK in ransom (we probably have about 200m between all of us and the corp). Now first of all, the game issue. How are new members to get into the game when they are popped out the sky in high-sec through absolutely no fault of their own? Surely this is recipe for cancelled accounts? How are new corps to start up and get anywhere, if they are bankrupted trying to either pay the "mercs" or hire other "mercs" to help them? Suddenly, it doesn't make sense joining a corp as a noob, making the game experience much less rewarding. Secondly, the honour issue. Some of you guys seem to have an understanding of what this term means: a fair fight between peers, the excitement of pitting your skills vs. someone who knows what they are doing and the risks they are taking. How can that compare to what these guys are doing? Is there really fun in one-shotting a noob in a mining frigate, or is it just a lame attempt to climb some killboard ladder? Well, I'm asking the opinion of any real pirates here. My opinion? I think it ruins the game, and subverts the basic principle that there are safe noob areas where people can learn the ropes before adventuring into more dangerous areas, in the full knowledge that they may meet some of the game's more 'colourful' characters.
Aries Silvermoon Team Americas Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.09 21:55:00 - [2] in before the flame
wierchas noobhunter Caldari Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.09 21:57:00 - [3] all carebears must die !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
kublai Short Attention Span	Posted - 2006.11.09 22:02:00 - [4] We war decc newbies for flaming. We only demmand 50mill though, knowing just how badly they suck :P ---------------------------------- Real Gangsta
tiller Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.09 22:03:00 - [5] Originally by: wierchas noobhunter all carebears must die !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this man speaks the truth Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage
T'Renn Vale Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.09 22:14:00 - [6] Maybe you should have thought about how poor you guys were before you let someone smack in local? Some folks just -love- to wardec, and for good reason. Try to talk the corp into canceling the war for something like 150-200 million. It's not a lot of ISK and if it'll set your corp back considerably anyway they'll probably do it. You guys are probably all station-camped at the moment anyway. -- If by some chance I managed to kill you, I can assure you it was purely luck.
Wishtler	Posted - 2006.11.09 22:14:00 - [7] How are new members going to get into the game? Join a decent corp; you'll get a lot more out of it playing with people who know what they are doing. The honour issue? What makes you think those guys give a **** about honour? Things like this don't ruin the game, they fulfil the game. Corps that can't defend themselves are at risk from war decs. No-one forces you to stay in a corp; if all you do is mine/missinos all day, just join an npc corp; all you'd loose out on is a shared hanger.
Aria Jenneth Caldari APEX Unlimited	Posted - 2006.11.09 22:20:00 - [8] Okay. I'm an AP, rather than a pirate, but I can try to explain the alternate view. Yes, you're probably being griefed. Mercs seem to just get bored now and then, and go newb hunting (much like duck hunting, only without the risk). This isn't pirating, really; it's more like bullying. When under attack in such a manner, it's a good idea to seek assistance from another corporation; I know the Kimotoro Directive has been known to come to the assistance of newb or industrial corps, but then, it's currently tied down in a war with a frankly superior force. Anyhow, what is happening to you isn't remotely uncommon, and the main solution to it is just to seek shelter with other corporations, or disband and vanish into an NPC corp (in which you truly are safe, or as safe as one ever gets in EVE). You can reform the corp after the mercs get bored and go somewhere else. Essentially, EVE is a sandbox, and you're getting picked on by one of the bullies, who's getting a kick out of knocking down your sand castles. Best solution is to make friends with a bigger kid. Oh-- by the way, this is one case where it might be best not to pay the ransom, even if you can afford it. The mercs will mention you to their associates as "easy marks," and you'll be bombarded with wardec threats. I do wish to make it clear that merc corps aren't pirates. Strange as it sounds, pirates as a group seem to be less inclined to hunt newbies for sport; simply put, your equipment tends not to be worth the bother. You're still in danger in lowsec, but ... well, you knew you were putting yourself at risk by entering. Bored mercs, on the other hand, just seem to get, well, bored, and proceed to wardec people who can't fight back effectively, just for the heck of it: duck hunting for the empathy-challenged. To put it a little differently, pirates are in it for profit. These mercs are just being jerks. Pirates can be jerks, likewise, but really, the pirating community isn't to blame for this sort of asshattery.
BaronWaste Finis Lumen Muffins of Mayhem	Posted - 2006.11.09 22:21:00 - [9] One of the risks you take by creating or joining a corporation is the fact that people can war-dec you for no reason whatsoever. Yes, it may seem lame if they indeed are war dec'ing you just because you're new and would be fun to blow up for a few days, but that's the nature of the game. I would hate to have it any other way, because people need to realize that there are consequences for their actions. My guess is one of your guys did smack-talk, or you were studied for a few days and determined to be worth 2 mil a week to war dec. This doesn't ruin the game, this is a necessity to the game. The ability to war-dec any other corp for any reason is what is fundamentally different about EVE from any other MMO. And it's not as if there aren't options for you guys if you don't want to get attacked. Stay in your NPC corps while you learn the ropes. What is exactly preventing you from creating your own channel and still hanging out together exactly? What are you getting right now out of being in a corporation that you COULDN'T get from NPC corps? If you don't want to be killed in High Sec, then don't join a corp at all. Or I guess you could join a corp that is capable of defending itself. Otherwise, stick to NPC corps, and then make a new corp when you are better able to defend yourselves.
Aerin Suhn	Posted - 2006.11.09 22:31:00 - [10] Edited by: Aerin Suhn on 09/11/2006 22:32:12 Thanks for the thoughtful replies. I did suggest to my CEO that we disband the corp for a while. That doesn't seem to be an option for the officers though. I myself am joining a larger corp (I made this decision before this war dec). As for the other replies, well, what did I expect? :p
Karinith Repo Industries	Posted - 2006.11.09 23:01:00 - [11] Aerin, convo or mail me when you get a chance. Repo is looking for contracts at the moment and your situation sounds like something we'd like to help you guys take care of.
Aerin Suhn Caldari Black Dhalia Corp	Posted - 2006.11.09 23:47:00 - [12] Originally by: Karinith Aerin, convo or mail me when you get a chance. Repo is looking for contracts at the moment and your situation sounds like something we'd like to help you guys take care of. Thanks Karinith, but there's only one problem. It's your corp that has war-decced the noob corp. Anyway, I'm off to pastures new. I've passed the advice here to my old corp-mates, so maybe there won't be a corp to war-dec in a few days time. "Nothing is so easy as to deceive one's self; for what we wish, we readily believe."
Samirol Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.11.09 23:53:00 - [13] Edited by: Samirol on 10/11/2006 00:00:44 im guessing aerin is in black dahlia corp rather than TSDS, but judging from black dahlia corp standings to npc corps, it doesnt look like they pirate. honor isnt fighting fairly, its sticking to your word
Commander Thrawn Tarnak inc. Eternal Empire	Posted - 2006.11.09 23:57:00 - [14] Originally by: Aerin Suhn Originally by: Karinith Aerin, convo or mail me when you get a chance. Repo is looking for contracts at the moment and your situation sounds like something we'd like to help you guys take care of. Thanks Karinith, but there's only one problem. It's your corp that has war-decced the noob corp. Anyway, I'm off to pastures new. I've passed the advice here to my old corp-mates, so maybe there won't be a corp to war-dec in a few days time. lol too funny, maybe they can wardec themselves
FooB2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2006.11.10 00:02:00 - [15] hilarity > "honour"
LittleTerror Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.11.10 00:31:00 - [16] Originally by: Aerin Suhn As this seems to be the forum for pirates, I just wanna get an opinion. I'm still pretty new to this game, although maybe not a noob. I believe pirates are essential to the whole concept, although I myself am probably more a carebear. But something's come up that I don't think is either fair in game terms, or honourable in pirating terms, and that is so-called "merc" corps war-deccing noob corps. The Corp I'm just leaving (as it happens) has about 10 players on at the busiest times, usually much less than that. The highest skilled player probably has 1.5m SP, with the average probably nearer 1m. Main activities are mission running (lvl 2) and mining. Suddenly we get war-decced by a corp with 20 active players, mostly 2-3 yrs in the game. The reason given? "One of your corp members was smack-talking us. Oh, but it's nothing personal." They are demanding 500m ISK in ransom (we probably have about 200m between all of us and the corp). Now first of all, the game issue. How are new members to get into the game when they are popped out the sky in high-sec through absolutely no fault of their own? Surely this is recipe for cancelled accounts? How are new corps to start up and get anywhere, if they are bankrupted trying to either pay the "mercs" or hire other "mercs" to help them? Suddenly, it doesn't make sense joining a corp as a noob, making the game experience much less rewarding. Secondly, the honour issue. Some of you guys seem to have an understanding of what this term means: a fair fight between peers, the excitement of pitting your skills vs. someone who knows what they are doing and the risks they are taking. How can that compare to what these guys are doing? Is there really fun in one-shotting a noob in a mining frigate, or is it just a lame attempt to climb some killboard ladder? Well, I'm asking the opinion of any real pirates here. My opinion? I think it ruins the game, and subverts the basic principle that there are safe noob areas where people can learn the ropes before adventuring into more dangerous areas, in the full knowledge that they may meet some of the game's more 'colourful' characters. Oh boo hoo hoo ___________________________________________________ I want your stuff
Aerin Suhn Caldari Black Dhalia Corp	Posted - 2006.11.10 00:38:00 - [17] Originally by: LittleTerror Oh boo hoo hoo Hmm nice bio: "My pain is constant and sharp and I do not hope for a better world for anyone, infact I want my pain to be inflicted on others." Boo hoo hoo -- "Nothing is so easy as to deceive one's self; for what we wish, we readily believe."
Scoundrelus Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.10 01:01:00 - [18] It's my belief that 1 - 1.5 mil SP characters should not make corps. Your extermination is neccesary. The balance must be preserved. Prepare to be modified. =============================================== We are Watching You.
Zitsev Gallente Black Dhalia Corp	Posted - 2006.11.10 01:33:00 - [19] Edited by: Zitsev on 10/11/2006 01:33:36 That was funny I rly don't mind..let't then try. btw..They are demanding 500m ISK ..so, think with me. Why i should pay 500m for they don't explode my cruiser? ... So Karinith..be happy camping for days at the stargates w8ing for kill some frigates and cruisers
LittleTerror Caldari New Found Cruelty	Posted - 2006.11.10 01:46:00 - [20] Originally by: Zitsev Edited by: Zitsev on 10/11/2006 01:33:36 That was funny I rly don't mind..let't then try. btw..They are demanding 500m ISK ..so, think with me. Why i should pay 500m for they don't explode my cruiser? ... So Karinith..be happy camping for days at the stargates w8ing for kill some frigates and cruisers To stop your self from getting killed? This thread is yet another pointless whine about war dec's, if you make a corp be prepared to defend your selves or be eliminated. ___________________________________________________ I want your stuff
Kalil d'Maelstromo The Establishment	Posted - 2006.11.10 01:53:00 - [21] Sigh If your being war'ed on by a corp then they may not be honourable or gallent but what does it matter? If, as has been suggested you are being war'ed because of your members smacking in local then you deserve what you get. You started the corp etc etc. However there are several threads made as guides to inexperianced corps being war'dec'd and the options available to them. Search for them in the Crime and Punishment forum or the Corporate Discussions forum (I think that the last was in the latter). To sum up: 1 give in - pay up or give in to demands 2 run - there are other parts the the verse and there are other corps to join or start. not the best option as if they are really ticked off they can easily follow unless say you join a decent alliance that can protect its members. 3 annoy - use alt scouts in npc corps, use alt scouts to scan their ships to know fittings and maybe get them to aggress in high sec near a gate against a non-war target etc etc. All join an NPC corp for a month etc 4 annoy and have fun - make the war mutual, get into a frig swarm say of rifters with ab/mwd scrams and then ecm, damps, tracking disrupters, webs in the third etc. BBs with racial jammers etc. Make it cost them. You make the point of "How are new members to get into the game when they are popped out the sky in high-sec through absolutely no fault of their own" Eve is a game of risk and then loss or gain. You have the tools available even as new players to deal with the threat, the point of Eve is that unlike so many other games you can lose it all over one mistake or you can hedge your bets, make good deals and generally get by if you watch your back. Last point. Remember that these guys arnt doing it for the money but because it IS fun. And hell it is even if only for a while. You stop their fun and you'll get your respite except from the most grizzled e-warrior. You can end your subscription in a knee-jerk reaction to 'griefing' or you can deal with it and have fun doing so. (Not specifically to your post but relevant i think.)
Kresh Vladir Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.10 02:00:00 - [22] its not exactly fair but it is good practive and most wars arnt just random **s and giggles usally have todo with 1 of the members smacktalking or some stupid ** like that
Kalil d'Maelstromo The Establishment	Posted - 2006.11.10 02:03:00 - [23] Edited by: Kalil d''Maelstromo on 10/11/2006 02:04:07 Edited by: Kalil d''Maelstromo on 10/11/2006 02:03:54 Originally by: Aerin Suhn Edit: spelling Secondly, the honour issue. Some of you guys seem to have an understanding of what this term means: a fair fight between peers, the excitement of pitting your skills vs. someone who knows what they are doing and the risks they are taking. How can that compare to what these guys are doing? Is there really fun in one-shotting a noob in a mining frigate, or is it just a lame attempt to climb some killboard ladder? Well, I'm asking the opinion of any real pirates here. My opinion? I think it ruins the game, and subverts the basic principle that there are safe noob areas where people can learn the ropes before adventuring into more dangerous areas, in the full knowledge that they may meet some of the game's more 'colourful' characters. Lol. Think this deserves a second post. Again Eve is a game of risk and NO areas are completely safe and intended to be that way. Yes you may get players ganking rookies through can-baiting but Eve is unlike any other game in terms of its possibility for loss and the type of player this game suits. I went a different path and was in 0.0 at the end of my first month learning the ropes and tackling for fleets but that doesn't mean that an npc-orientated or industry orientated path is any less relevant imo, it just means that you do what you want and you are responsible for your own assets. So some bullies set about you...you will learn more and probably have more fun if you said to yourselves "Balls, if they want a fight then they have one. On our terms not theirs." You'll also get more patient replies in the forums Good luck
Zitsev Gallente Black Dhalia Corp	Posted - 2006.11.10 02:05:00 - [24] Originally by: LittleTerror Originally by: Zitsev Edited by: Zitsev on 10/11/2006 01:33:36 That was funny I rly don't mind..let't then try. btw..They are demanding 500m ISK ..so, think with me. Why i should pay 500m for they don't explode my cruiser? ... So Karinith..be happy camping for days at the stargates w8ing for kill some frigates and cruisers To stop your self from getting killed? This thread is yet another pointless whine about war dec's, if you make a corp be prepared to defend your selves or be eliminated. oh yeah.. with 20 members they will cover all over high sec space... I was saying..'I don't mind'. even if I had that isk I would not pay
Karinith Repo Industries	Posted - 2006.11.10 02:47:00 - [25] Originally by: Aerin Suhn Originally by: Karinith Aerin, convo or mail me when you get a chance. Repo is looking for contracts at the moment and your situation sounds like something we'd like to help you guys take care of. Thanks Karinith, but there's only one problem. It's your corp that has war-decced the noob corp. Anyway, I'm off to pastures new. I've passed the advice here to my old corp-mates, so maybe there won't be a corp to war-dec in a few days time. hehe , your didn't have a corp name being displayed under your portrait....oh well. So you guys are the ones that were smacking in local. Don't know what to say other than don't mouth off in local if you aren't capable of backing it up with some force. Hopefully it wasn't you that was being mouthy that night b/c I'd hate to have to track you down and make you say "I'm sorry".
hangnoose Caldari Repo Industries	Posted - 2006.11.10 02:57:00 - [26] Originally by: Zitsev Originally by: LittleTerror Originally by: Zitsev Edited by: Zitsev on 10/11/2006 01:33:36 That was funny I rly don't mind..let't then try. btw..They are demanding 500m ISK ..so, think with me. Why i should pay 500m for they don't explode my cruiser? ... So Karinith..be happy camping for days at the stargates w8ing for kill some frigates and cruisers To stop your self from getting killed? This thread is yet another pointless whine about war dec's, if you make a corp be prepared to defend your selves or be eliminated. oh yeah.. with 20 members they will cover all over high sec space... I was saying..'I don't mind'. even if I had that isk I would not pay It's called locater agents. Don't need to cover high sec space when in 5? 7 minutes we can know exactly what system you are, not to mention I believe they also show what station you are in as well.
Balklanac The Wicked and Wise	Posted - 2006.11.10 03:01:00 - [27] Pirates really need to cut down on ransom amounts generally they ask for unreasonable amounts and are than suprised when people initiate self-destruct on their ships --------- I would love to see a bounty pilot get some friend or an alt to pod them to collect the isk if that resulted in a two week delay before their 'personality' was uploaded to a new clone.
dennyreborn	Posted - 2006.11.10 03:03:00 - [28] A fight you have no hope to win ??? Practice the art of PVP without PVPing 1. figure out what time they play 2 move to another station on the other side of empire when they are not on. Odds say they will bother someone else. if they do follow 1. Do not talk in locale or forums at all. and do not talk to them in pm's either 2. only log into change skills. Odds say they will get bored and find a corp that they can pvp with. if after two weeks they are still there. 1 give CEO to one of your alts. 2.move everyone to NPC corp 3. when wardec is lifted stay in alt corp and move back to main corp as you want. the 1st one is my preferred method is it is a in RP type of exit and everyone still gets play time. It's draw back is of course you got to move and they could follow you. the 2nd method i prefer if the 1st method doesn't work. It's draw back is you can do it for almost a week as people will start missing eve. the 3rd method is only a last resort. the major draw back is some of your corp mates will likely stay in the npc corp or go to other larger corps better able to protect them.
Takijj Yahri	Posted - 2006.11.10 03:12:00 - [29] Funny stuff
Master Spoonman	Posted - 2006.11.10 03:20:00 - [30] Originally by: Aerin Suhn Originally by: Karinith Aerin, convo or mail me when you get a chance. Repo is looking for contracts at the moment and your situation sounds like something we'd like to help you guys take care of. Thanks Karinith, but there's only one problem. It's your corp that has war-decced the noob corp. Anyway, I'm off to pastures new. I've passed the advice here to my old corp-mates, so maybe there won't be a corp to war-dec in a few days time. Classic EVE! *** Special thanks to Zurtur to making this signature for me

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