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Kassidus
Gallente
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2006.11.10 04:24:00 -
[1]
I cant see why anyone is complaining besides lazy pirates, this effects nothing except a decrease in BM's
whatever you are whineing about, wether now slow ships can get around faster or the economy will become damaged lol!! wtf!!,
I always say people in this game are some of the smartest I have ever met online, but this is rediculous people ALREADY UDE BM's to get around fast !!! bipassing the game mechanics anyways !!.
This implimentation of warp to 0 is nothing but good!!.
A: No more people proffiting off selling BM's
B: No more people scamming fake BM's
C: Much less server lag (in theory)
D: Game is more enjoyable not having to manage BM's
E: more people will feel free to enter into low sec.
F: Increase in low sec activity means increase targets for pirates.
G: All people including pirates and alliances defending territory will have
to play smarter in order to catch there prey making for more tactics and more
fun.
H: Some market prices may even come down as supply may become easier.
Basically for any bad thing you can bicth about theres a pile more bennefit, and a i can say "people already use BM's for that"
So your complaining is pointless.
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Kassidus
Gallente
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2006.11.10 04:27:00 -
[2]
Oh and one more thing, the only reason this game is half as good as it is, is that CCP DOESNT! listen to every person that *****es this is there game, they stick to there ideas and they do it, if we think its wrong well dont play, but the increase in players only shows that that isnt the case.
SO be quiet and let CCP build there game, or this is going to turn into a countless other number of MMO's that listen to the masses , and we all know the majority of people are idiots.
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zeKzn
Empire of Destiny
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Posted - 2006.11.10 04:28:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Kassidus
Oh and one more thing, the only reason this game is half as good as it is, is that CCP DOESNT! listen to every person that *****es this is there game, they stick to there ideas and they do it, if we think its wrong well dont play, but the increase in players only shows that that isnt the case.
SO be quiet and let CCP build there game, or this is going to turn into a countless other number of MMO's that listen to the masses , and we all know the majority of people are idiots.
rofl, you are aware that the whiners in this case are all the tards asking for warp to 0?
It changes a hell of a lot more than just BM counts, and yes, the majority of people are idiots, and the majority wants warp to 0.
my thoughts are my own and do not represent the thoughts of my corp |
Kassidus
Gallente
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2006.11.10 04:32:00 -
[4]
All i know is these message boards are getting rediculous the last couple weeks.
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Edgard Clochard
4X Incorporated
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Posted - 2006.11.10 04:36:00 -
[5]
A: I have never purchased a BM from anyone, ever.
B: Same as A, so I have little sympathy.
C: In theory, I still haven't seen an actual dev post about it and I won't believe it until I do.
D: Again, same as A, so I don't really care if you don't want to work to get anything from your current solutions.
E: Perhaps.
F: I can't disagree with this too much.
G: I can't see this as anything more than an attempt to reduce the number of tactics available to people, not forcing them to find new ones.
H: I find the idea of having items available anywhere rather boring to be honest. Localized marketplaces are interesting places where people group together, business happens, etc. etc.
Not everyone uses instas, so why should we all have to change because your crutch has made you too lazy to stand on your two feet?
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Acerus Malum
Encina Technologies
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.11.10 04:38:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Kassidus
"people already use BM's for that"
And it's "already" a ****ty, exploity game mechanic. So what you're saying is that because aforementioned ****ty, exploity game mechanic is currently used enmasse, that we should legitimize it? Wow, great plan. Let's do the same with alliances camping bugged complex overseers; just give everyone rare items in their hangars every 2 hours of every day. Sweet. I'll be rich in no time.
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Kassidus
Gallente
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2006.11.10 04:41:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Edgard Clochard
A: I have never purchased a BM from anyone, ever.
B: Same as A, so I have little sympathy.
C: In theory, I still haven't seen an actual dev post about it and I won't believe it until I do.
D: Again, same as A, so I don't really care if you don't want to work to get anything from your current solutions.
E: Perhaps.
F: I can't disagree with this too much.
G: I can't see this as anything more than an attempt to reduce the number of tactics available to people, not forcing them to find new ones.
H: I find the idea of having items available anywhere rather boring to be honest. Localized marketplaces are interesting places where people group together, business happens, etc. etc.
Not everyone uses instas, so why should we all have to change because your crutch has made you too lazy to stand on your two feet?
how do you have to change ? you can still warp to 15km lol, i have maybee 10 instas all just for stations cause i hate waiting to dock.
but seriously this will increase tactics and team work not make it worse, I think you sir need to get off the crutch of instapoping people at gates and other boring tactics.
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Kassidus
Gallente
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2006.11.10 04:44:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Acerus Malum
Originally by: Kassidus
"people already use BM's for that"
And it's "already" a ****ty, exploity game mechanic. So what you're saying is that because aforementioned ****ty, exploity game mechanic is currently used enmasse, that we should legitimize it? Wow, great plan. Let's do the same with alliances camping bugged complex overseers; just give everyone rare items in their hangars every 2 hours of every day. Sweet. I'll be rich in no time.
this isnt about wether or not BM's are an exploit infact to bring it up us idiocy because its not the issue.
what happens to be the issue is warp to 0 so of you have something constructive to say please feel free.
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murder one
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.10 04:44:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kassidus
I cant see why anyone is complaining besides lazy pirates, this effects nothing except a decrease in BM's
whatever you are whineing about, wether now slow ships can get around faster or the economy will become damaged lol!! wtf!!,
I always say people in this game are some of the smartest I have ever met online, but this is rediculous people ALREADY UDE BM's to get around fast !!! bipassing the game mechanics anyways !!.
This implimentation of warp to 0 is nothing but good!!.
A: No more people proffiting off selling BM's
B: No more people scamming fake BM's
C: Much less server lag (in theory)
D: Game is more enjoyable not having to manage BM's
E: more people will feel free to enter into low sec.
F: Increase in low sec activity means increase targets for pirates.
G: All people including pirates and alliances defending territory will have
to play smarter in order to catch there prey making for more tactics and more
fun.
H: Some market prices may even come down as supply may become easier.
Basically for any bad thing you can bicth about theres a pile more bennefit, and a i can say "people already use BM's for that"
So your complaining is pointless.
Why not just remove gate instas? Don't put in warp to 0km. Problem solved. No more lag, no people getting a free ticket out of the system.
Because I said so...
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Kassidus
Gallente
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2006.11.10 04:46:00 -
[10]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Kassidus
I cant see why anyone is complaining besides lazy pirates, this effects nothing except a decrease in BM's
whatever you are whineing about, wether now slow ships can get around faster or the economy will become damaged lol!! wtf!!,
I always say people in this game are some of the smartest I have ever met online, but this is rediculous people ALREADY UDE BM's to get around fast !!! bipassing the game mechanics anyways !!.
This implimentation of warp to 0 is nothing but good!!.
A: No more people proffiting off selling BM's
B: No more people scamming fake BM's
C: Much less server lag (in theory)
D: Game is more enjoyable not having to manage BM's
E: more people will feel free to enter into low sec.
F: Increase in low sec activity means increase targets for pirates.
G: All people including pirates and alliances defending territory will have
to play smarter in order to catch there prey making for more tactics and more
fun.
H: Some market prices may even come down as supply may become easier.
Basically for any bad thing you can bicth about theres a pile more bennefit, and a i can say "people already use BM's for that"
So your complaining is pointless.
Why not just remove gate instas? Don't put in warp to 0km. Problem solved. No more lag, no people getting a free ticket out of the system.
its not just gate instas that cause lag, its all BM's the servers dont care if your BM is for a gate or a station.
But you seem to forget that one of the big things dev's want is to get more people into low sec, this will help, with few real consequences.
No matter what you think of it people will adapt and i gaurantee the game will be better for it not worse.
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Edgard Clochard
4X Incorporated
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Posted - 2006.11.10 04:56:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Edgard Clochard on 10/11/2006 04:57:02
Originally by: Kassidus
instapoping people at gates and other boring tactics.
I can state with a clean conscience that I have never "instapopped" anyone, at a gate or otherwise, and in over two years of playing time (yes, this character is not that old, that doesn't mean that isn't true either) I've taken part in less than 15 ship kills, and 4 poddings. Of course by some people's definitions that would make me a "pirate" but just about all of those could have been attributed to sheer boredom.
Just because a tactic is boring and lame doesn't mean it isn't a valid one, and based on what little experience I have of it, I would have to say that lowsec gate camping is both. However, I don't think it's anyone's business to say what tactics people should be using as long as they are within the confines of the current game environment
as intended.
I can't say this will effect me too much, because I seem to be one of the few people who actually bother to use their scanner to check out their destination gate before they head to it, but 9 out of every 10 ships I do lose in lowsec are due to warping to a gate, rather than warping away from it, so in my case, the "camp the other side" arguments are rather silly.
I think Occam's razor should be applied to a solution to this "problem". Grandfathering a long-standing workaround that couldn't easily be extracted if at all once implemented would be much more complicated than just preventing you from using that workaround in the first place. I doubt there would be many "bring back the instas!" threads if they were removed entirely and warp to 15km on gates/stations were enforced. People are just as likely to "adapt" to the removal of instas entirely as they are to warp to 0km that you and so many of its proponents seem to claim.
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Marcus TheMartin
Gallente
CURSED LEGION OF DOOM
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.10 04:58:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kassidus
Oh and one more thing, the only reason this game is half as good as it is, is that CCP DOESNT! listen to every person that *****es this is there game, they stick to there ideas and they do it, if we think its wrong well dont play, but the increase in players only shows that that isnt the case.
SO be quiet and let CCP build there game, or this is going to turn into a countless other number of MMO's that listen to the masses , and we all know the majority of people are idiots.
Right this is why the Ares and Raptor are so much cheaper compared to the other interceptors. Just making an analogy don't mind me
The Best Thing I've ever seen in local chat
[15:17:21] sotmassacer > can someone give me a big battleship for a while
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Edgard Clochard
4X Incorporated
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Posted - 2006.11.10 05:01:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Kassidus
Oh and one more thing, the only reason this game is half as good as it is, is that CCP DOESNT! listen to every person that *****es this is there game, they stick to there ideas and they do it
I imagine if this were the case we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. 
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Too Kind
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Posted - 2006.11.10 05:44:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Too Kind on 10/11/2006 05:46:25
Originally by: Kassidus
Oh and one more thing, the only reason this game is half as good as it is, is that CCP DOESNT! listen to every person that *****es this is there game, they stick to there ideas and they do it, if we think its wrong well dont play, but the increase in players only shows that that isnt the case.
Shooting yourself in the foot here. If they'd do that they'd remove gate bms without a warp to 0, because warp-to-15 was the original idea, no warp to 0.
The players circumvented it with abusing bookmarks to get warp to 0 anyway. That's has been stated by the devs multiple times already in the past. 
--------------------------
Post with your main !!!111 |
Gamer4liff
Caldari
Metalworks
THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2006.11.10 05:46:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Gamer4liff on 10/11/2006 05:46:25
Originally by: Kassidus
All i know is these message boards are getting rediculous the last couple weeks.
The word you are looking for is "ridiculous".
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Pepperami
Art of War
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.10 06:35:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Gamer4liff
Edited by: Gamer4liff on 10/11/2006 05:46:25
Originally by: Kassidus
All i know is these message boards are getting rediculous the last couple weeks.
The word you are looking for is "ridiculous".
The words you were looking for are "for life". There's no need to unwelcomely correct people's English. Not everyone is a native English speaker and even if they are, when did this become Grammar-Online?
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Bentula
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Posted - 2006.11.10 07:39:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Too Kind
Edited by: Too Kind on 10/11/2006 05:46:25
Originally by: Kassidus
Oh and one more thing, the only reason this game is half as good as it is, is that CCP DOESNT! listen to every person that *****es this is there game, they stick to there ideas and they do it, if we think its wrong well dont play, but the increase in players only shows that that isnt the case.
Shooting yourself in the foot here. If they'd do that they'd remove gate bms without a warp to 0, because warp-to-15 was the original idea, no warp to 0.
The players circumvented it with abusing bookmarks to get warp to 0 anyway. That's has been stated by the devs multiple times already in the past.
Yes warp to 15 was the original idea, and players circumvented that. But dont forget that ccp put in stuff to deal with those instas(warp bubbles). And dont get me started about lowsec, lowsec is/was more dangerous than 0.0 and thats just stupid.
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Athena Starfire
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.10 08:47:00 -
[18]
Aww..shed a tear 
Poor, Poor Pirates and Campers gonna have to find a new way to wreck peoples enjoyment of the game...WAAA BOO HOO!!
GOOD JOB!! CCP...Please keep these types of changes coming..
About time...
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St3v3sancho
The Roughneck's
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Posted - 2006.11.10 08:53:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Athena Starfire
Aww..shed a tear
Poor, Poor Pirates and Campers gonna have to find a new way to wreck peoples enjoyment of the game...WAAA BOO HOO!!
GOOD JOB!! CCP...Please keep these types of changes coming..
About time...
and another one from Athena:
Quote:
Aw..poor,poor prirates and campers will have to find some other way of wrecking people enjoyment of the game..WAAA!!!
Whining carebear of the year award goes to Athena. Definately.
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LWMaverick
Quam Singulari
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.10 09:01:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kassidus
I cant see why anyone is complaining besides lazy pirates, this effects nothing except a decrease in BM's
You have NO idea, not even close to even have a clue, about how many people that dosent have bookmarks, and how many intresting fights that result in(yes fights, not ganks).
This is not only a huge pirate nerf, its a huge problem all over.. how about empire wars? 0.0 too?
Warp to 15km, or a random 0-15km warp in point could do. ... the permanent warp to 0km, is not NOT an option, its just stupid.
<3  |
Samirol
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2006.11.10 09:28:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Samirol on 10/11/2006 09:28:52
a whine thread about whiners 
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Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Euphoria Released
Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.11.10 09:34:00 -
[22]
the intersting thing is ...
some of the best posts regarding "warp to 0m or not to" came from people that oppose this change (James Lyrus comes to my mind .. but other posters as well) ... they presented arguments and tried to base them on logic, instead of posting only one-sentence opinions.
on the other side - i've hardly seen a good argumentation by one of the supporters of the "warp to 0m" option - mostly it boils down to "you're an ebil noobganking and carebeargriefing piwate!" statements.
especially in combination with inertia stabs the "warp to 0m" option becomes unbalanced to an extent you'll likely would describe as "overpowered beyond believe"
___________________
-Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
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Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.10 09:49:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 10/11/2006 09:49:33
Originally by: Samirol
Edited by: Samirol on 10/11/2006 09:28:52
a whine thread about whiners
But I never see anyone giving out other options to open up the spaceways.. Complaints about the lack of targets I hear every other thread.. Complaints over how CCP is negligent in providing those targets I hear in daamn near every thread.. Complaints over what CCP is trying to do to give you more targets I hear in every single thread.. But never any suggestions.. Fukin Emo Whiners.. 
[2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" |
trimdonite
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Posted - 2006.11.10 10:36:00 -
[24]
Edited by: trimdonite on 10/11/2006 10:36:26
what i dont understand about these arguments (and i dont know if this has already been said because i cant be bothered to trawl through the 3273289302 threads on the issue) is, why are people starting to say, " this will make moving a fleet of battleships as fast as moving a fleet of frigates"
wtf? does everyone elses battleship align like a frig?
why is this different to using instas?
the same people complaining are probably the ones on here whining about lag, yet this is being put in to help stop lag.
*walks away shaking head in bewilderment
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Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Euphoria Released
Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.11.10 10:45:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Ishquar Teh''Sainte on 10/11/2006 10:45:33
Originally by: trimdonite
Edited by: trimdonite on 10/11/2006 10:36:26
what i dont understand about these arguments (and i dont know if this has already been said because i cant be bothered to trawl through the 3273289302 threads on the issue) is, why are people starting to say, " this will make moving a fleet of battleships as fast as moving a fleet of frigates"
wtf? does everyone elses battleship align like a frig?
why is this different to using instas?
well atm the main consideration when forming a fleet is most of the time NOT the travel speed of the ships - it's more like "can we get enough battleships to insta-pop other battleships" .. imho it should be more "will a battleship fleet be there in time to be effective?" .. you want a deep incursion into hostile terretory?? you either plan ahead if you want to use battleship - which waypoints you'll use to get there as fast as possible, which stations you'll use as gathering and end points and so on. or you take only small ships ...
Quote:
the same people complaining are probably the ones on here whining about lag, yet this is being put in to help stop lag.
*walks away shaking head in bewilderment
you know - removing instas (in every possible form - aka no BMs in a 100km sphere around a gate) does NOT necessarily mean "warp to 0m" as default. if the bookmarks are away - it doesn't matter if you have to warp on 0m or on 10km - the stress of the DB/the lag will be the same in both situations .. 
___________________
-Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
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Rina Shanu
Phoenix Knights
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Posted - 2006.11.10 10:51:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Athena Starfire
Aww..shed a tear
Poor, Poor Pirates and Campers gonna have to find a new way to wreck peoples enjoyment of the game...WAAA BOO HOO!!
GOOD JOB!! CCP...Please keep these types of changes coming..
About time...
are you a main ?
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Kanuo Ashkeron
Eve Defence Force
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.10 12:10:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Kanuo Ashkeron on 10/11/2006 12:12:10
What I do not understand is that people are bringing arguments like:
1) Travel time will be reduced
2) Incoming ships cannot be caught
3) Trade will be unbalanced
4) ..
As the warp to 0km option just gives you the same gameplay as insta-bm¦s, this drawbacks already exist now.
People have instas for regular travel routes, ships warp to insta-bm to not get caught, traders have instas for their trade-routes, alliances have bm¦s even for hostile territory, ...
For me instas are a fact of gameplay. Everyone has them, and if you don¦t have instas for a region you are new, you get them asap as it is really boring to travel around without them.
For the people who say they don¦t use instas: It¦s the same as before, your problem seem to be that others are using instas.
So i think this change will do some good things for EVE:
1) Remove a time/isk-sink for players
2) Remove server load
Finally one could argue, that warp to 0 (with or without instas) is not good for the gameplay. Of course there is only one argument for it: It¦s just a timesink. Why should it need 2 hours to travel 20 jumps in a bs? There is just no argument in favour of that.
Kanuo
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.10 12:13:00 -
[28]
While warp to 0km is nice. it's going to make EVE feel small, because you're going to travel it so fast. Also, having it for everything will kinda suck. Have it for just gates please.
Originally by: kieron
The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Lo3d3R
Implant Liberation Front
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.10 12:14:00 -
[29]
afaik there hasnt been a confirmation from any CCP official that 0km warp in will make it they are just letting everyone speculate and write threads about it.
A shame there are allot more bears that want a free pass then there are pirates to defend their point of view.
oh well theres always other games to try would hate to see CCP go mainstream.
bleh
___________________
Eating Chopped Bear: |
Securion Wolfheart
Caldari
Semper Fidelis Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.10 12:27:00 -
[30]
What is wrong with you gatehuggers anyway?
Nothing have changed! Instead of using instas we warp to 0. What is so hard to understand?
Oh wait... you guys pop noobs at gates uh? Thats the only thing you have skills for?
Too lame to do anything else?
Whining ******* maggots.
-----====-----
Whether we bring our enemies to justice or bring justice to our enemies, justice will be done.
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Athena Starfire
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.10 12:29:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Lo3d3R
oh well theres always other games to try would hate to see CCP go mainstream.
Don't let the gate hit you in the butt on the way out..
Have a Nice Day...
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Sales Merchant
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Posted - 2006.11.10 12:37:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Kassidus
C: Much less server lag (in theory)
^This is probably the best reason why 0km warping should be tried. CCP wont find out just how much of a positive change it will make to server performance until its tried on TQ with 25k users.
Let them give it a try, if it means less lag and disconnects then its worth it.
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Sheppard
Gallente
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.11.10 13:08:00 -
[33]
Only downside i really see is solo pvp. Which will be very difficult.
Warp bubbles, dictors have been introduced you just need these in your gangs.
To be honest not everyone likes changes that are introduced. I just say if they want to do it do it. We will just adapt as always .
If it means a huge reduction in lag then it has to be good.
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MOCC3
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Posted - 2006.11.10 13:36:00 -
[34]
Yes warp to 15 was the original idea, and players circumvented that. But dont forget that ccp put in stuff to deal with those instas(warp bubbles). And dont get me started about lowsec, lowsec is/was more dangerous than 0.0 and thats just stupid.
You are so right. Low Sec is by far worse then 0.0. i think warp to 0 is going to work fine. it now mean that people will train more in dicters and put up bubbles where ever they camp. Simple. Also now more people will travel to .4 and below and not be worried about getting ownd due to no Instas. warping to 0 will speed the game up and make people think about new tactics in witch to kill people. i love it its great. Now the question is...
With warp to o.. how CCP will neuf it?
How will gate snipers get there prey?
How will pirates jack noobs at gates now?
How will gate combat evol?
Heck i dunno but im ready to see it in action!
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BBQ
Gallente
Suicidal Tendencies Ltd
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Posted - 2006.11.10 14:06:00 -
[35]
I will correct some things (that I see posted over and over and over). The original jump setup was warp to 10km and jump at 0m from gate, this was changed within 6 months of going non beta to warp to 15km and jump at >2.5km so warping points have changed before and are expected to change again. Things progress and changes are made, imagine if someone said "We dont need electricity as it is dangerous and needs to be nerfed" we would never be able to do most of the stuff we do in real life.
Personally warp to 0Km is a good thing. What really does annoy me are the players that state it will kill there income as it means they can no longer shoot players or have battles. This is plane and simply wrong.
1) tackling the player after the jump. Not all ships insta-warp so the ganking is still an option for getting that noob as he trys to warp away. You just need a ship with a quick lock time to tackle them before they warp away if you want to get that battleship.
1a) if your lucky enough for a play to shoot back then you still get the full ganking time as they cant jump.
1b) you will still be able to pick off those pilots that rely on auto-pilot to travel as they will still get dumped 15km from the gate.
2) Bubbles can still be dropped in 0.0 so they will still catch people and pull them out of warp before the gate, placement just needs to be more refined than it was before.
3) Low sec (0.4-0.1) will start to be slightly safer than 0.0. Currently you actually stand less chance of being ganked in 0.0 than you do a 0.4 system because of the gate snipers that sit in 0.4 choke points littering the jump in point with cans and blowing up every ship that comes through with impunity.
4) Travel time will come down, this may actually benifit some people but I can see it as a main drawback with the 0Km option. Ok, so a logistics ship and a freighter now take the same ammount of time to jump after coming out of warp but that is a small price to pay for less lag and a removal of billions of bookmarks plus the freighter will still take ages to reach the gate while in warp.
With so many people carrying bookmarks now I dont see the warp to 0km making much difference to 0.0 travel but it will really affect 0.1 and above. I know for a fact that I will be more inclined to travel into >0.4 space if 0Km did make it onto TQ and I think I would be in the majority simply because the chance of being blown up at a gate through no fault of your own is reduced.
The biggest reason I dont currently frequent 0.4 space is purely the fact that a few people can sit 190km from the gate and gank 90% of the people that travel through but then run and hide if they percieve the slightest chance of getting shot at.
----
God gave us a brain, he also gave us a voice.
Shame some people have yet to connect them.
|
Lo3d3R
Implant Liberation Front
Pirate Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 14:21:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Athena Starfire
Originally by: Lo3d3R
oh well theres always other games to try would hate to see CCP go mainstream.
Don't let the gate hit you in the butt on the way out..
Have a Nice Day...
troll alt ftf, how constructive
___________________
Eating Chopped Bear: |
Stuart Price
Caldari
Mercatoris Technologies
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 14:22:00 -
[37]
Exactly, it must take some real skill and teamwork to sit 200km from a gate, aligned and up to speed popping passing traffic.
You want to kill people in low sec? Get those in belts.
You want to kill people at gates? Tough.
You think you're uber skilled at pvp? Go play in 0.0 then. Don't forget your bubbles and your interdictors.
Adapt or Die nubly pirates.
"I got soul but I'm not a soldier" |
Kassidus
Gallente
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 14:24:00 -
[38]
Well i was at work for 9 hours and this thread didnt seem to get completely out of hand there is some smart people left playing this game afterall hehe.
|
Edgard Clochard
4X Incorporated
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 14:31:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Lo3d3R
there are pirates to defend their point of view.
Truly the worst part of this debate is that so many people seem to think that anyone who opposes warp to 0km is/was/will always be a pirate. That couldn't be farther from the truth.
I'm not surprised though, as I had to deal with this kind of name calling from people who had never PvPed in any way, shape, or form long before I ever went on the occasional bored killing spree.
|
miss erinys
Dragonian Freelancers
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 14:54:00 -
[40]
I completely agree with the OP, either give everyone instabookmarks, or nobody the option too, ccp choose the latter, wich is good imho, saves a LOT of tedious travelling time.
|
Valerek
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 16:39:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Valerek on 10/11/2006 16:45:15
I think the solution to this is to make "warp to" a "precision" skill. Lvl 1 would get you within 15 clicks of your intended destination. Lvl 2 would get you within 10 and so on.
I would make it a Rank 4 or 5 skill and require Warp Drive V to skill.
We could also look into skills that enhance the "fight" or hunt. I would like to see skills such as "Warp Pursuit" that permits you to establish a vector of a warping ship. The lvl would determine how close you would warp next to the target. Lvl 1 would get you within 100 clicks, etc.
I think the devs need to work on more specific skills that would make pilots more like warriors. I don't know...just my two shiney pennies... |
Valerek
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 16:40:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Securion Wolfheart
What is wrong with you gatehuggers anyway?
Nothing have changed! Instead of using instas we warp to 0. What is so hard to understand?
Oh wait... you guys pop noobs at gates uh? Thats the only thing you have skills for?
Too lame to do anything else?
Whining ******* maggots.
I agree. And I just blasted some gangkers in another threat. They consider themselves "elite"..  Yeah, sitting there all day patting themselves on the back about their latest industrial or cruiser kill.
They're pathetic and you know what...maybe as we "carebears" start to enter their space...maybe we do what citizens do (in the real world) to gang-bangers...send them packing!  |
Varis
Jericho Fraction
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 17:03:00 -
[43]
This wont reduce the number of gankers - it will just make more of them congregate in bigger groups just to catch them - as it'll become the only way.
|
ThaMa Gebir
Gallente
Raddick Explorations
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 17:58:00 -
[44]
Edited by: ThaMa Gebir on 10/11/2006 17:59:38
Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte
the intersting thing is ...
some of the best posts regarding "warp to 0m or not to" came from people that oppose this change (James Lyrus comes to my mind .. but other posters as well) ... they presented arguments and tried to base them on logic, instead of posting only one-sentence opinions.
on the other side - i've hardly seen a good argumentation by one of the supporters of the "warp to 0m" option - mostly it boils down to "you're an ebil noobganking and carebeargriefing piwate!" statements.
especially in combination with inertia stabs the "warp to 0m" option becomes unbalanced to an extent you'll likely would describe as "overpowered beyond believe"
On that note, I would like to add my 0.02 isk. All people I know of (very few don't) use instant jump bookmarks. IIRC I read somewhere that the database is currently (at the original time of posting) approximatly 14% insta-bm's. Now I know that sounds like a small amount but when we consider that most if not all of the database is caught up with this phenomena, it means that there is an awful amount of virtuall erroneous material there.
I say erroneous because with the warp to 0 is possibly the (imo) most balanced way CCP could have done it. I mean why should we carry on using warping to 15 when the playerbase has obviously found a way around that and the only disadvantage is possibly not having said bm's. Now yes it makes it a little more difficult for gate gankers to have their way with un-prepared people and slow ships, but I believe thats where the balance comes in.
The ships that are generally slower are usually better protected (battleships and bc's etc) and those that are faster have an advantage here, in 0.0 security space it also balances out again because you have the option if you want to ofc, of shutting the system off to outsiders via bubbles or such. Result; less lag in the general database and "slightly" easier piloting on manual control if you are at the keyboard. With ap it is a different story and not much is changed for the case as it currerntly stands, you still warp to only 15.
I can understand the frustration of the snipers (is a valid game tactic no matter how much I do not like it) but consider this; Darwin was right and there will always be someone around to just autopilot an iteron 5 with the best named expanders on somewhere.
I apologise if it offends but I feel some may be a little too critical with how ccp do things now and I find it a little unfair. This game is permenently evolving, next year perhaps after all bookmarks are gone CCP might just nerf it back to 15km, now that would be funny.
There will be no survivors now that i'm around - Xorus
pwnt  - Immy
|
Miya Kurosawa
Caldari
White Wolves Defence league
The OSS
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 18:03:00 -
[45]
Lol. You know what guys, let's just wait and see if this does get implemented. Either way, we'll all have to adapt anyway. CCP has never put in any changes to the game that they know the players won't be able to adapt to.
Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam
Pinoy ako! =)
For you Philippine players out there, join us in the Pinoy channel |
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 18:27:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Valerek
Edited by: Valerek on 10/11/2006 16:45:15
I think the solution to this is to make "warp to" a "precision" skill. Lvl 1 would get you within 15 clicks of your intended destination. Lvl 2 would get you within 10 and so on.
I would make it a Rank 4 or 5 skill and require Warp Drive V to skill.
We could also look into skills that enhance the "fight" or hunt. I would like to see skills such as "Warp Pursuit" that permits you to establish a vector of a warping ship. The lvl would determine how close you would warp next to the target. Lvl 1 would get you within 100 clicks, etc.
I think the devs need to work on more specific skills that would make pilots more like warriors. I don't know...just my two shiney pennies...
Both excellent suggestions. Those that have invested in legitimate abilities are good to go, and in many cases could follow their prey easier. Those that don't invest in those abilities are actually a little nerfed with the loss of the Instas at gates.
I never understood the entire "Warp to 15" concept. Here we have the technology to launch a ship half way across the known galaxy with pin-point accuracy, can mark the coordinates in our computers for future use (bookmarks) and and use them with pin point accuracy. Yet we can't take a known, guarenteed location (Jump gates have to be perfectly positioned and locked to that spot) and NOT be able to jump precisely? I can understand a station as it is in orbit, but a jump gate by definition cannot even move milimeters or its out of alignment to hit the next gate...
Warp to 0 is fine. I fully agree that warp to stations should not be allowed as they move. And warping into the middle of an asteroid belt (warp to "0") should have the potential to damage to the ship :)
<hr>
MMORPG == Massively Moronic Online Raw Powergaming Grief fests....
Play something different: EvE
<hr>
Low Sec != No Sec: Caldari citezens for the right to travel in Caldari space. |
Felix Dzerzhinsky
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 18:29:00 -
[47]
The only people who want warp to 0 are newer traders and alliances.
Newer traders because they can't fly the prowler and other very good blockade runners that can clear the distance between gates with almost frightening speed. They may carry less, but they move it. There are traders that use Recon ships to move things too, stealth is very strong. When either hits a bubble, they usually die, in fact, msot people die when they hit a bubble - and without exception, when you manage to survive one, you feel lucky. Warp to 0 will make all space above 0.0 the same for freighters as it is for interceptors (once alligned). So not only can people move around empire faster, but the freigter is only slightly slower then the Crane. . .now that is strange. Considering we have many many tipes of industrials, this will limit their use a lot.
I agree, the lag has to go. Warp to 0 however is not the solution. Standardizing warp to 15 is what is needed.
With the HP and Local Channel boost, you should be able to judge the safty of the system for yourself. And really, why should anyone be able to run past a larger gate-camp? Any mechanic that allows a 3 month old character to evade and outrun a group of 1 and 2 year old characters is going to upset people. . .what do you expect!!
|
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 18:42:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky
With the HP and Local Channel boost, you should be able to judge the safty of the system for yourself. And really, why should anyone be able to run past a larger gate-camp? Any mechanic that allows a 3 month old character to evade and outrun a group of 1 and 2 year old characters is going to upset people. . .what do you expect!!
The other question that also has to be asked is that even in Low Sec space why would any government tolerate gate camping by criminals? Trade is the life blood of any empire and historically governments are more concerned about raiders than they are about murdering and such. Disruptions to trade were almost never tolerated, even the demise of the pirates in our own history had little to do with the murdering and killing that happened but because they disrupted trade. And governemnts went way out of their own territories to deal with the problems.
I am NOT saying that Concord should patrol Low Sec, but the gates are a Concord presense. If the guns at the gates are firing Concord knows and should be dispatching from other systems to deal with the issue and protect the gates if the guns aren't doing their job. The concept that a BS can tank the guns all day while the rest of the pack is raiding and Concord DOESN'T respond is a bit silly. What I mean is that if you were attacking at the gates in a system 3 jumps deep you would have the time it took Concord to jump in from.5 (or higher) space, but if you attacking at a gate to .8 space you would have to deal with Concord almost immediately as they responded to the threat.
---------------------------------------------------
MMORPG == Massively Moronic Online Raw Powergaming Grief fests....
Play something different: EvE
---------------------------------------------- |
Za Po
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 19:01:00 -
[49]
Basically, some people will complain about anything and everything unless it is done exactly as they say.
|
Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Euphoria Released
Euphoria Unleashed
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 19:08:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Valerek
I think the solution to this is to make "warp to" a "precision" skill. Lvl 1 would get you within 15 clicks of your intended destination. Lvl 2 would get you within 10 and so on.
I would make it a Rank 4 or 5 skill and require Warp Drive V to skill.
We could also look into skills that enhance the "fight" or hunt. I would like to see skills such as "Warp Pursuit" that permits you to establish a vector of a warping ship. The lvl would determine how close you would warp next to the target. Lvl 1 would get you within 100 clicks, etc.
I think the devs need to work on more specific skills that would make pilots more like warriors. I don't know...just my two shiney pennies...
bad idea - guess why?? high rank skills mean newbies will have quite a long time a big disadvantage .. it would be even worse than now ... as having warp to 0m is only restricted by ISK ... your proposal will restrict it by SP .. and guess what SP are harder to come by for a newbie than ISK
___________________
-Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
|
Taralesk Inshani
Infinite Improbability Inc
Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 19:46:00 -
[51]
Originally by: murder one
Why not just remove gate instas? Don't put in warp to 0km. Problem solved. No more lag, no people getting a free ticket out of the system.
This man has the correct idea.
Eve is supposed to be dangerous! It's a PVP GAME!
This is not the carebear heaven you are looking for.
.
Quote:
Oh, yeah, what are you gonna do? Release the dogs? Or the bees? Or the dogs with bees in their mouth and when they bark, they shoot bees at you?
|
Guillame Herschel
Gallente
Cheers Restaurant and Bar
Nova Republic
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 20:19:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 10/11/2006 20:19:50
Originally by: Acerus Malum
Originally by: Kassidus
"people already use BM's for that"
And it's "already" a ****ty, exploity game mechanic.
Nope, it's an officially sanctioned strategy.
Quote:
So what you're saying is that because aforementioned ****ty, exploity game mechanic is currently used enmasse, that we should legitimize it?
It's already legitimate. But the present design is straining the servers. The new design of the insta warp feature should eliminate the server strain.
Don't believe it's legitimate? Read this and tell me again insta-warp coordinate bookmarks are an expliot. (skip down to the last section Setting Bookmarks).
So enough with the exploit jazz. It isn't an expliot. Enough with the whining about game balance. The Player Guide says insta bookmarks separate the advanced players from the novices. But the present design of the insta-warp feature hinders further expansion of the game. The new design eliminates that hindrance.
-- Guile can always trump hardware -- |
Guillame Herschel
Gallente
Cheers Restaurant and Bar
Nova Republic
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 20:22:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 10/11/2006 20:24:30
Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte
on the other side - i've hardly seen a good argumentation by one of the supporters of the "warp to 0m" option
I got the ultimate argument.
http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g06.asp
Setting Bookmarks
This is what separates the advanced miners from the novices. A novice miner will bookmark the position of a good asteroid, and when returning later will spend time ap proaching it from 15km away, where his or her warp cuts out. An advanced miner will bookmark a position 15km beyond the asteroid in a line from the station that they are based out of, and thus when warping to '15km to bookmark' will appear right on top of the chosen asteroid and be able to mine immediately.
ò In order to set your bookmarks, first set a bookmark on an asteroid that is roughly in the position that you wish to mine from. Ensure that you don't have any big asteroids between it and the station that you're working out of, since it may interfere with your incoming path.
ò Warp out to the station, and back to within 15km of the bookmark. Set your camera behind your ship on the way in; it may be easier this way. Now double click your speed control (setting you to max velocity), and continue for 30km. Stop your ship and add a bookmark. Label it something sensible - like including a short identifier for the system, the belt, and the number of interesting asteroids in close proximity to the warp in point.
ò For the first few, you'll want to test them by warping back to the station, then back to the bookmark to check that they are ok. Once you've done half a dozen then you'll be confident with this process.
ò You may also wish to set a bookmark 8km beyond the station in a line from the belt. This will allow you to warp to a point where you can dock immediately instead of having to ap proach the docking perimeter. It is not strictly necessary, very useful.
ò Another quick note here: when belts are in a similar direction from the station, a single station bookmark can work for more than one belt.
-- Guile can always trump hardware -- |
Joshua Foiritain
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 20:24:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Valerek
maybe as we "carebears" start to enter their space...maybe we do what citizens do (in the real world) to gang-bangers...send them packing!
In case you didn't notice, Kali changes ruin mid space PVP, hence all of us well be on the gates, how are you gonna get your hulk past 4 dictors, 20 battleships, 5 ceptors and some hacs? Ill answer that; You don't. Enjoy high sec. 
-----
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Guillame Herschel
Gallente
Cheers Restaurant and Bar
Nova Republic
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 20:33:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
In case you didn't notice, Kali changes ruin mid space PVP, hence all of us well be on the gates, how are you gonna get your hulk past 4 dictors, 20 battleships, 5 ceptors and some hacs?
Wait for you to get bored and leave.
-- Guile can always trump hardware -- |
Valan
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 21:10:00 -
[56]
Way back we used to have warp to 0. We also had **** fast ships, including BS. If you repeated a journey you would land on top of stations and gates. If you didn't your travelling BS did ridiculous speeds. We used to race them off grid in about 2 seconds.
It made no difference. Pirates still pirated, alliances still...ere allianced.
No body likes change everyone is a carebear when it comes to patch day.
I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on.
|
Fogy
Caldari
Euphoria Released
Euphoria Unleashed
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 21:32:00 -
[57]
How often do you see ppl NOT using instas in 0.0?
2 out of 10 (and thats exagurating) + the feew you see NOT using BM's is n00bs trying to explore 0.0
you REARLY see any fleets, lone bs's or anything else you can catch without BMs...
so how does this realy "mess up" your killing?
where/how do you usually catch stuff in 0.0?`
eighter when they jumpe through the gate, or by catching them wich a boubble...
for lovsec empire.. its mostly the same.. you cant realy camp highsec gates in lov sec empire caus catching targets you need to use the same tactick.. LIVE WITH IT!! and adapt.. :P
What do we, the entire comunity benefit from this?
ppl will stopp coppying big batches of BM's (reducing server lagg
ppl will/should start deleting theyr instas, (reducing server lagg)
what more can you ask for?!?!
If catching targets in lovsec is so **** hard, you cant do it if they got BM's.. you realy need to go pratice some more.. caus we sure as hell manage to do it in 0.0
Cheers!
Fogy
"From my rotting boddy flowers shall grow and I am in them, and that is eternity"
|
Athena Starfire
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.11.10 22:19:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Taralesk Inshani
Eve is supposed to be dangerous! It's a PVP GAME!
This is not the carebear heaven you are looking for.
..YET
But we are working on it...
---Proud Winner of the 'Carebear of the Year' Award!
|
MOCC3
|
Posted - 2006.11.11 05:43:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky
The only people who want warp to 0 are newer traders and alliances.
Newer traders because they can't fly the prowler and other very good blockade runners that can clear the distance between gates with almost frightening speed. They may carry less, but they move it. There are traders that use Recon ships to move things too, stealth is very strong. When either hits a bubble, they usually die, in fact, msot people die when they hit a bubble - and without exception, when you manage to survive one, you feel lucky. Warp to 0 will make all space above 0.0 the same for freighters as it is for interceptors (once alligned). So not only can people move around empire faster, but the freigter is only slightly slower then the Crane. . .now that is strange. Considering we have many many tipes of industrials, this will limit their use a lot.
I agree, the lag has to go. Warp to 0 however is not the solution. Standardizing warp to 15 is what is needed.
With the HP and Local Channel boost, you should be able to judge the safty of the system for yourself. And really, why should anyone be able to run past a larger gate-camp? Any mechanic that allows a 3 month old character to evade and outrun a group of 1 and 2 year old characters is going to upset people. . .what do you expect!!
I can agree to disagree. .1 and above will be safer. But in 0.0 where the elite players play it will be bussiness as uasall.. If u really don't wont anyone to come thru the gate drop a bubble. warp to 0 won't help if your stuck in a bubble now will it?. If u bring a minning barge thru a gate with warp to 0 u still have to allign ( get blown up).
2Me warp to 0 will make empire runs faster,less lag, and give me more poddings. Noobs come to 0.0 for a look in the pretty shuttle. Now im not a year old player im 7 mo's but iv lived over half my life in 0.0.
Will warp to 0 stop some snipers yes.
Will warp to 0 stop gateganking in .1 and above hell naw.
will warp to 0 make people Biotch YES!
Do i care NO
|
MOCC3
|
Posted - 2006.11.11 05:46:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky
With the HP and Local Channel boost, you should be able to judge the safty of the system for yourself. And really, why should anyone be able to run past a larger gate-camp? Any mechanic that allows a 3 month old character to evade and outrun a group of 1 and 2 year old characters is going to upset people. . .what do you expect!!
The other question that also has to be asked is that even in Low Sec space why would any government tolerate gate camping by criminals? Trade is the life blood of any empire and historically governments are more concerned about raiders than they are about murdering and such. Disruptions to trade were almost never tolerated, even the demise of the pirates in our own history had little to do with the murdering and killing that happened but because they disrupted trade. And governemnts went way out of their own territories to deal with the problems.
I am NOT saying that Concord should patrol Low Sec, but the gates are a Concord presense. If the guns at the gates are firing Concord knows and should be dispatching from other systems to deal with the issue and protect the gates if the guns aren't doing their job. The concept that a BS can tank the guns all day while the rest of the pack is raiding and Concord DOESN'T respond is a bit silly. What I mean is that if you were attacking at the gates in a system 3 jumps deep you would have the time it took Concord to jump in from.5 (or higher) space, but if you attacking at a gate to .8 space you would have to deal with Concord almost immediately as they responded to the threat.
Word. I think concord should be all the way down to .1
If u got skill to sit 190 km off a gate then u got skill to hunt people down in belts.
thats my .0023 Isk worth
|
MOCC3
|
Posted - 2006.11.11 05:56:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Originally by: Valerek
maybe as we "carebears" start to enter their space...maybe we do what citizens do (in the real world) to gang-bangers...send them packing!
In case you didn't notice, Kali changes ruin mid space PVP, hence all of us well be on the gates, how are you gonna get your hulk past 4 dictors, 20 battleships, 5 ceptors and some hacs? Ill answer that; You don't. Enjoy high sec.
Sweet god... If your flying a Hulk thru bad guy space alone u should get podded...
|
Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Euphoria Released
Euphoria Unleashed
|
Posted - 2006.11.11 07:37:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 10/11/2006 20:29:01
Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte
on the other side - i've hardly seen a good argumentation by one of the supporters of the "warp to 0m" option
I got the ultimate argument. The Player Guide teaches new players how to make insta-warp bookmarks specifically for thepurpose of eliminating the 15km slowboat to the warp target. So there.
http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g06.asp
Setting Bookmarks
This is what separates the advanced miners from the novices. A novice miner will bookmark the position of a good asteroid, and when returning later will spend time ap proaching it from 15km away, where his or her warp cuts out. An advanced miner will bookmark a position 15km beyond the asteroid in a line from the station that they are based out of, and thus when warping to '15km to bookmark' will appear right on top of the chosen asteroid and be able to mine immediately.
ò In order to set your bookmarks, first set a bookmark on an asteroid that is roughly in the position that you wish to mine from. Ensure that you don't have any big asteroids between it and the station that you're working out of, since it may interfere with your incoming path.
ò Warp out to the station, and back to within 15km of the bookmark. Set your camera behind your ship on the way in; it may be easier this way. Now double click your speed control (setting you to max velocity), and continue for 30km. Stop your ship and add a bookmark. Label it something sensible - like including a short identifier for the system, the belt, and the number of interesting asteroids in close proximity to the warp in point.
ò For the first few, you'll want to test them by warping back to the station, then back to the bookmark to check that they are ok. Once you've done half a dozen then you'll be confident with this process.
ò You may also wish to set a bookmark 8km beyond the station in a line from the belt. This will allow you to warp to a point where you can dock immediately instead of having to approach the docking perimeter. It is not strictly necessary, very useful.
ò Another quick note here: when belts are in a similar direction from the station, a single station bookmark can work for more than one belt.
 .... 
you're correct - that sounds like the ultimate argument so far
___________________
-Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
|
Ki An
Gallente
Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille
Tre Kroner
|
Posted - 2006.11.11 18:55:00 -
[63]
When will people understand that it's not only pirates or gatecampers who dislike warp-to-0? I am neither a pirate nor camper, but I dislike it because of the severe impact it will have on the economy. As someone put it in another thread, why would you want to purchase an item in your station when you can get it in Jita for 5% less price? All you have to do is jump in your hauler and insta-warp to Jita. Should take about 20 minutes if you are 20 jumps out. The local market will die. Competition will be global (as in galaxy wide) and prices will go down everywhere. Minerals will sell for less, and soon all you'll see is Insurance fraud where people let their ships get popped to collect insurance, cause it's going to get a huge profit margin. Sure, I may be taking this a long way, but I see a grim future for EVE if everyone has the ability to traverse the galaxy in less than a session of play.
Not EVERYONE uses instas. Not even NEAR everyone. Sure, most people have instas for this or that region, or maybe their current trade-route or deep 0.0 pipe, but not EVERYWHERE. Especially not in high-sec. Ever wondered how all those haulers and missioners slowboating to the gates got there if they had instas? All of them on Autopilot? Not likely.
And about low-sec: Ever wondered why it is considered more dangerous than 0.0? Game-mechanics? No, it's because 0.0 is largely patrolled and defended by the resident alliances. You want low-sec to get more safe? Go out there and blow stuff up! How hard is that to figure out? Claim yourself a nice little system somewhere and kill the pirates dead. It'll make you money, and it's a lot of fun. It's win-win for you "non-pvpers" (as if there even was such a thing in EVE ). Don't rely on CCP to cuddle you while you transport your precious goods. Make the **** effort to secure the route yourselves!
God, I can't believe some people.
/Ki
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Nerf Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.11 19:17:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Edgard Clochard
A: I have never purchased a BM from anyone, ever.
B: Same as A, so I have little sympathy.
C: In theory, I still haven't seen an actual dev post about it and I won't believe it until I do.
D: Again, same as A, so I don't really care if you don't want to work to get anything from your current solutions.
E: Perhaps.
F: I can't disagree with this too much.
G: I can't see this as anything more than an attempt to reduce the number of tactics available to people, not forcing them to find new ones.
H: I find the idea of having items available anywhere rather boring to be honest. Localized marketplaces are interesting places where people group together, business happens, etc. etc.
Not everyone uses instas, so why should we all have to change because your crutch has made you too lazy to stand on your two feet?
EXACTLY. I couldn't have put it better myself.
I vote for a removal of all BMs within 1000km of stations and gates.
Signature graphic removed - please email us to find out why (include a link to the graphic in question) - Jacques([email protected])
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Athena Starfire
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.11 21:58:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Athena Starfire on 11/11/2006 22:08:16
We haven't seen a dev post DENYING Warp-To-Zero. We HAVE SEEN a mod state no more WT0 Topic, but no denial...
Its coming, Its on the Test Server right now..
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Wrayeth
Tabula Rasa Systems
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.11 22:00:00 -
[66]
Personally, I'm in favor of warp to 0km. I'm also in favor of 'dictor bubbles in lowsec as long as you take a sec hit for every non-war target you catch in one.
-Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
R.I.P. AC tempest
R.I.P. Torp raven
R.I.P. Solo PvP
R.I.P. My account, after the next cycle.
Thanks, CCP. |
Owi
Alcatraz Inc.
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2006.11.12 00:56:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Owi on 12/11/2006 00:57:11
there will be no BMS atall anymore?
WTF it makes the gameplay less individuell ...
What about Safespots .Sniperspots , looksouts , cool BMs you made , Offgridbelts MiningBMs, hidden BMs !!!
Disable BMS at all is a step back not forward !! **** IT
- Owi - the forum |
MOCC3
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Posted - 2006.11.26 05:24:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Ki An
When will people understand that it's not only pirates or gatecampers who dislike warp-to-0? I am neither a pirate nor camper, but I dislike it because of the severe impact it will have on the economy. As someone put it in another thread, why would you want to purchase an item in your station when you can get it in Jita for 5% less price? All you have to do is jump in your hauler and insta-warp to Jita. Should take about 20 minutes if you are 20 jumps out. The local market will die. Competition will be global (as in galaxy wide) and prices will go down everywhere. Minerals will sell for less, and soon all you'll see is Insurance fraud where people let their ships get popped to collect insurance, cause it's going to get a huge profit margin. Sure, I may be taking this a long way, but I see a grim future for EVE if everyone has the ability to traverse the galaxy in less than a session of play.
Not EVERYONE uses instas. Not even NEAR everyone. Sure, most people have instas for this or that region, or maybe their current trade-route or deep 0.0 pipe, but not EVERYWHERE. Especially not in high-sec. Ever wondered how all those haulers and missioners slowboating to the gates got there if they had instas? All of them on Autopilot? Not likely.
And about low-sec: Ever wondered why it is considered more dangerous than 0.0? Game-mechanics? No, it's because 0.0 is largely patrolled and defended by the resident alliances. You want low-sec to get more safe? Go out there and blow stuff up! How hard is that to figure out? Claim yourself a nice little system somewhere and kill the pirates dead. It'll make you money, and it's a lot of fun. It's win-win for you "non-pvpers" (as if there even was such a thing in EVE ). Don't rely on CCP to cuddle you while you transport your precious goods. Make the **** effort to secure the route yourselves!
God, I can't believe some people.
/Ki
 Umm Ok I live in 0.0 All my alliance uses insta's.
When i lived in epire i used insta's.
When i find a nice minning belt i make insta's
-->Elite players use insta's
Its kinda Simple and if u read the Dev's notes on Kali they are not getting rid of BM's
There making warp to 0 a option.
<--Antipirate Pvper//
And Jita is wallmart.
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Iva Soreass
Black Omega Security
The OSS
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Posted - 2006.11.26 11:13:00 -
[69]
Originally by: MOCC3
Umm Ok I live in 0.0 All my alliance uses insta's.
When i lived in epire i used insta's.
When i find a nice minning belt i make insta's
-->Elite players use insta's
Its kinda Simple and if u read the Dev's notes on Kali they are not getting rid of BM's
There making warp to 0 a option.
<--Antipirate Pvper//
And Jita is wallmart.
They are getting rid of them around celestial(SP?)objects (IE: Gates//stations etc) within a certan radious (think it was 40km).
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Reiisha
Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2006.11.26 11:26:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Kassidus
I cant see why anyone is complaining besides lazy pirates, this effects nothing except a decrease in BM's
It also 'gives' insta bookmarks, all over the universe, to everyone who didn't need or have them before aswell. How is that ok?
Originally by: Kassidus
whatever you are whineing about, wether now slow ships can get around faster or the economy will become damaged lol!! wtf!!,
I always say people in this game are some of the smartest I have ever met online, but this is rediculous people ALREADY UDE BM's to get around fast !!! bipassing the game mechanics anyways !!.
As i said before, it also gives the bm's to people who didn't ahve them before. Not to mention, BM's were the problem to begin with - not a solution to travel faster.
Originally by: Kassidus
This implimentation of warp to 0 is nothing but good!!.
A: No more people proffiting off selling BM's
They took the time to do the work for others. Even though i don't support the bookmarks themselves, i do support the people who took the time to make and sell them.
Originally by: Kassidus
B: No more people scamming fake BM's
As if people aren't scamming with other stuff aswell?
Originally by: Kassidus
C: Much less server lag (in theory)
In fact, not theory. The database strain will be lowered considerably.
Originally by: Kassidus
D: Game is more enjoyable not having to manage BM's
Game would be more enjoyable not using them in the first place.
Originally by: Kassidus
E: more people will feel free to enter into low sec.
0.0 space is lawless, and was meant to be conquered at some point. When anyone, including the enemy, has free passes to your territory, how is that no screwed up? You could go to 0.0 before easy aswell, just take a fast frig or interceptor.
Originally by: Kassidus
F: Increase in low sec activity means increase targets for pirates.
Pirates can't catch people who use warp to 0, except freighters. The rest just uses nanofibers, jumps in, warps, jumps out. Piracy will probably die out, since you can't put up structures within 100km of a gate in empire (i believe).
Originally by: Kassidus
G: All people including pirates and alliances defending territory will have
to play smarter in order to catch there prey making for more tactics and more
fun.
They had to play smart before already. Right now, they can't defend anything, since everyone can simply jump through any block in a snap. Enemy territory is incredibly easy to get into and get out of - the people who supposedly control the territory can't actually defend it. How is that not screwed up?
Originally by: Kassidus
H: Some market prices may even come down as supply may become easier.
The market will now center in hub systems like Jita and Oursuleart. It's easy to get there and find whatever you need. In turn, the lag in those systems will increase as more people will go there. Also, it pushes the competition out of the market, since the pricing and supply to stay competitive in such an area will have to be low and high, respectively. In other words, there will be less people to make the same amount of products, because now the tech 1 market will become hugely overinflated, giving new players and corps the boot out of the game, unless they manage to have a t2 bpo fall in their laps.
Originally by: Kassidus
Basically for any bad thing you can bicth about theres a pile more bennefit, and a i can say "people already use BM's for that"
So your complaining is pointless.
The benefits are really not benefits. They will bog the game down, they make the game make a lot smaller than it actually is, and on top of that they will influence the game's economy a lot more than you would like.
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