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Why Minmatar Tech2 HAC's and BC's have godly resists?

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Doom Piwate1	Posted - 2006.11.10 07:04:00 - [1] Let's take an example: Minmatar HAC Muninn has following shield resists shield em damage resistance 75 % shield explosive damage resistance 60 % shield kinetic damage resistance 40 % shield thermal damage resistance 60 % Now there is total of 235 points of resists. Caldari HAC Eagle has following shield resists shield em damage resistance 0 % shield explosive damage resistance 60 % shield kinetic damage resistance 70 % shield thermal damage resistance 80 % And this makes up total of 210 points of resists. Sure, minmatars sworn enemy is (nerffed) Amarr who does primary (yay!) EM damage. But when they have TOTAL resist points more than others, this is kinda odd. Naturally Gallente and Caldari are close to each other because their kinetic and thermal loving guns so they don't NEED EM resist but they have lower TOTAL resists. What was the reason to give minmatar so much better resists OVERALL than others?
Clansworth Good Rock Materials	Posted - 2006.11.10 07:14:00 - [2] You are missing something in your comparison. The Eagle has a bonus to resistances or 5%/cruiser skill level. The Muninn has no such bonus. And, since the Eagle requires Cruiser V to fly anyways, you can really just consider the Eagle's resists to be shield em damage resistance 25 % shield explosive damage resistance 75 % shield kinetic damage resistance 87.5 % shield thermal damage resistance 100 % total 287.5 points or resist. For some reason I don't believe the 100%, but can't remember how the math works out. but as you can see, your comparison is not quite correct.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.11.10 07:16:00 - [3] Its just a t2 thing. Not that the Eagle doesnt have very good resistances either. Basically, you take your racial enemies racial damage and then give those damage types as a set boost. Caldari have kin/therm, so they get a significant kin/therm boost. All they really have to do to have good resistances is harden EM. Amarr have explosive/kinetic and so have great explsive and kinetic resists. Minmatar get explosive/thermal for a reason i dont really know, probably because they get 70% base EM anyway, which is 25% better than all other races to start out with.
Cpt Abestos Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.10 07:18:00 - [4] Edited by: Cpt Abestos on 10/11/2006 07:19:12 Originally by: Goumindong Its just a t2 thing. Not that the Eagle doesnt have very good resistances either. Basically, you take your racial enemies racial damage and then give those damage types as a set boost. Caldari have kin/therm, so they get a significant kin/therm boost. All they really have to do to have good resistances is harden EM. Amarr have explosive/kinetic and so have great explsive and kinetic resists. Minmatar get explosive/thermal for a reason i dont really know, probably because they get 70% base EM anyway, which is 25% better than all other races to start out with. Minnie have em/themal bonus not thermal/exp It's great being Amarr ain't it?
Bentula	Posted - 2006.11.10 07:21:00 - [5] Edited by: Bentula on 10/11/2006 07:22:47 Originally by: Doom Piwate1 Let's take an example: Minmatar HAC Muninn has following shield resists shield em damage resistance 75 % shield explosive damage resistance 60 % shield kinetic damage resistance 40 % shield thermal damage resistance 60 % Now there is total of 235 points of resists. Caldari HAC Eagle has following shield resists shield em damage resistance 0 % shield explosive damage resistance 60 % shield kinetic damage resistance 70 % shield thermal damage resistance 80 % And this makes up total of 210 points of resists. Sure, minmatars sworn enemy is (nerffed) Amarr who does primary (yay!) EM damage. But when they have TOTAL resist points more than others, this is kinda odd. Naturally Gallente and Caldari are close to each other because their kinetic and thermal loving guns so they don't NEED EM resist but they have lower TOTAL resists. What was the reason to give minmatar so much better resists OVERALL than others? The reason is simple, you dont understand math. Hacs get 3 50% hardeners built in, 2 to their main resist 1 to their minor resist. What you dont get is that adding 50% to a 0% resist(em) gives you 50 "points" while adding them to a 40% resists gives you only 30 "points". Edit: To make it even more clear, in eve resistances are calculated in % not points. And 50% are always 50% even if you get less of your points.
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.11.10 07:22:00 - [6] Originally by: Clansworth You are missing something in your comparison. The Eagle has a bonus to resistances or 5%/cruiser skill level. The Muninn has no such bonus. And, since the Eagle requires Cruiser V to fly anyways, you can really just consider the Eagle's resists to be shield em damage resistance 25 % shield explosive damage resistance 75 % shield kinetic damage resistance 87.5 % shield thermal damage resistance 100 % total 287.5 points or resist. For some reason I don't believe the 100%, but can't remember how the math works out. but as you can see, your comparison is not quite correct. change the comparison to a cerberus and your point falls doesn't matter tho I think the racial resistances are just fine as it is
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.11.10 07:22:00 - [7] Originally by: Clansworth You are missing something in your comparison. The Eagle has a bonus to resistances or 5%/cruiser skill level. The Muninn has no such bonus. And, since the Eagle requires Cruiser V to fly anyways, you can really just consider the Eagle's resists to be shield em damage resistance 25 % shield explosive damage resistance 75 % shield kinetic damage resistance 87.5 % shield thermal damage resistance 100 % total 287.5 points or resist. For some reason I don't believe the 100%, but can't remember how the math works out. but as you can see, your comparison is not quite correct. its 25% absolute reduction. So if you have 60% resists and add a 25% resist bonus you get a 70% resist total[70% recieves 30 damage, 60% recieves 40, 3/4=75%) So at cruiser 5 you would look like Shield Em: 25% Shield Ex: 70% Shield Ki: 77.5% Shield Th: 85%
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.11.10 07:23:00 - [8] Originally by: Cpt Abestos Edited by: Cpt Abestos on 10/11/2006 07:19:12 Originally by: Goumindong Its just a t2 thing. Not that the Eagle doesnt have very good resistances either. Basically, you take your racial enemies racial damage and then give those damage types as a set boost. Caldari have kin/therm, so they get a significant kin/therm boost. All they really have to do to have good resistances is harden EM. Amarr have explosive/kinetic and so have great explsive and kinetic resists. Minmatar get explosive/thermal for a reason i dont really know, probably because they get 70% base EM anyway, which is 25% better than all other races to start out with. Minnie have em/themal bonus not thermal/exp my mistake, for some reason i was thinking i was looking at an armor resist and not a shield resist[as most minmatar armor boost], which is why it didnt quite make sense to me.
Old Geeza The Retirement Home	Posted - 2006.11.10 08:34:00 - [9] Minmatar get identical damage reductions from their base resistances as the other races. Caldari take 75% less Thermal, Gallente take 75% less Kinetic, Amarr take 75% less explosive and Minmatar take 75% less EM (which is actually the most useless resist of them all). Just because the numbers don't tally up to be the same in each ship is because of the way resistances are applied. The same applies for the secondary resistance bonusus too (Min: Thermal, Gal: Thermal, Cal: Kinetic, Amarr: Kinetic). _______________________________________ Sign the petition against jump queues!
Captain Raynor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.10 09:41:00 - [10] Minmatar just luck out because they get boosts to shields two lowest resists. =================== snip Please do not discuss moderation in your sig -Eldo
Thalera Saldana Minmatar Oxymorons from Outer Space	Posted - 2006.11.10 09:59:00 - [11] ... and a mean shield tank you can fit on the muninn as well with 3 med slots The armour resists on this ship for its proper tank are slightly less than stellar em 92.5% exp 10% kin 25% the 67.5% 2 pretty big holes to fill for a decent tank. Seems reasonably balanced to me. (Of course some other minnie tech 2 ships do have godly shield tanks, but I feel the muninn was not the best example). Thal
Hoshi DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.10 10:54:00 - [12] Originally by: Thalera Saldana ... and a mean shield tank you can fit on the muninn as well with 3 med slots QFT While minmatar t2 has very good resists for shield tanking they have a very hard time making use of them. The muninn in your example can only armor tank and for that the resists suck because it has 2 resist holes where all other hacs only have 1.
Udyr Vulpayne Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.10 11:33:00 - [13] Originally by: Old Geeza Minmatar take 75% less EM (which is actually the most useless resist of them all). i think i and a lot of other amarr pilots would be happy to see minmatar get an explosive bonus instead of facing 92.5% default em resists on your armortanks.
Inairin	Posted - 2006.11.10 11:49:00 - [14] Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne Originally by: Old Geeza Minmatar take 75% less EM (which is actually the most useless resist of them all). i think i and a lot of other amarr pilots would be happy to see minmatar get an explosive bonus instead of facing 92.5% default em resists on your armortanks. and my blasters would be happy to see amarr having negative kinetic and thermal resistance.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.11.10 12:09:00 - [15] Originally by: Old Geeza Minmatar take 75% less EM (which is actually the most useless resist of them all) On armor yes, its pretty decent on shields. Thermal is also great for shields and not bad for armor either. Though Thermal aint a bad resist. Two best resists to have are probably kinetic and thermal, followed by explosive then EM for armor.{overall, more Kin/thermal damage from most weapons) For shields its Thermal and kinetic, followed by EM, then explosive.
Naldo Caldari Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.11.10 12:20:00 - [16] Originally by: Inairin Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne Originally by: Old Geeza Minmatar take 75% less EM (which is actually the most useless resist of them all). i think i and a lot of other amarr pilots would be happy to see minmatar get an explosive bonus instead of facing 92.5% default em resists on your armortanks. and my blasters would be happy to see amarr having negative kinetic and thermal resistance. Amarr don't have exceptionally strong Kinetic and Thermal. 62.5% Kinetic and 35% thermal on Zealot so I kind of fail to see where you are going with that. hardly ground breaking is it?
Old Geeza The Retirement Home	Posted - 2006.11.10 12:28:00 - [17] Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne Originally by: Old Geeza Minmatar take 75% less EM (which is actually the most useless resist of them all). i think i and a lot of other amarr pilots would be happy to see minmatar get an explosive bonus instead of facing 92.5% default em resists on your armortanks. That would imply changing all EM damage to EX damage on crystals, which ain't happening ;) _______________________________________ Sign the petition against jump queues!
Kunming Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.10 12:35:00 - [18] I wonder how Amarr are supposed to beat T2 minmatar ships at all?
Udyr Vulpayne Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.10 13:25:00 - [19] Originally by: Kunming I wonder how Amarr are supposed to beat T2 minmatar ships at all? arbi
Tel Bakhara	Posted - 2006.11.10 13:38:00 - [20] Originally by: Kunming I wonder how Amarr are supposed to beat T2 minmatar ships at all? Simple: Amarr won't beat... 2 factions are at war and there are no winner, they are Cadalri and Galente While some rebels WON and they are considered a faction: minmatar. So minmatar is the winner and Amarr the loser, ships shows how. Wanna see if their is any rebel that failed? How about the loser's ships? Look at the Khanid ships! :P
Imhotep Khem Total Mayhem.	Posted - 2006.11.10 13:42:00 - [21] Edited by: Imhotep Khem on 10/11/2006 13:47:59 Originally by: Captain Raynor Minmatar just luck out because they get boosts to shields two lowest resists. Its not that lucky. Minmatar ships MUST shield tank for long range setups due to MW/CPU issues. Minmatar ships generally armor tank for short range due to same issues. So if you intend to shield tank, then you are good. But this means your t2 ships will always be better long range than short range. Unless they get a shield boost bonus to force you to fit a shield even on a short range kit. So its not all that good of a situation for Minmatar. If you look at T2 ships you will see that one of the minmatar ships in the pairs is always superior. Almost always this is the one that can fit the shield tank... Amarr should stay away from Minmatar ships that have shield boost bonuses in short range fights. The rest don't matter. ____ "If your not dyin' your not tryin'." "Are you prepared to go all the way, Alexi?" DuGalle
Mudkest	Posted - 2006.11.10 13:50:00 - [22] now slap on a t2 em hardner on the eagle and a kinetic hardner on the muninn, muninn now has 268 "points"of resist and eagle 265 "points". difference doesnt look that much now does it? and isnt muninn an armor tank anyway? with 2 pretty resist holes in armor :) - When talking about the itsy bitsy spider, try not to start with itchy, you'll get the second part wrong as well
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.11.10 14:02:00 - [23] in pvp you cant viably shield tank a muninn. ever tried to armour tank one?
Aleis Minmatar	Posted - 2006.11.10 14:27:00 - [24] Wait a second Being Minmitar is acuataly a bonus? that aside i love all the smll exclusions that people are making, Amarr hacs only get a crapy kenetic resist. .....Oh right i'm supposed to forget about the massive explosion bonus they get or the fact that like thermal kenetic is one of the most important. sorry try again. but the Muninn isn't the only armor tank don't forget about the wolf as well
MaidMarion FarCry Inc Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.10 16:05:00 - [25] Originally by: Doom Piwate1 Let's take an example: Minmatar HAC Muninn has following shield resists shield em damage resistance 75 % shield explosive damage resistance 60 % shield kinetic damage resistance 40 % shield thermal damage resistance 60 % Now there is total of 235 points of resists. Caldari HAC Eagle has following shield resists shield em damage resistance 0 % shield explosive damage resistance 60 % shield kinetic damage resistance 70 % shield thermal damage resistance 80 % And this makes up total of 210 points of resists. Sure, minmatars sworn enemy is (nerffed) Amarr who does primary (yay!) EM damage. But when they have TOTAL resist points more than others, this is kinda odd. Naturally Gallente and Caldari are close to each other because their kinetic and thermal loving guns so they don't NEED EM resist but they have lower TOTAL resists. What was the reason to give minmatar so much better resists OVERALL than others? It does look funny, but maybe if they gave shield tanking races 25% base EM resist on shields it might have been a bit imbalanced in testing ??
Sigos	Posted - 2006.11.10 16:17:00 - [26] Each faction's ships receive resist bonuses to their rival faction's 2 main damage types. Amarr do EM and thermal damage. Shields are weakest to EM and Thermal damage. Ergo, the percent bonus on shields for EM and thermal appears larger than the bonuses for other races. Similarly, Minmatar do explosive and kinetic damage. Armor is weakest to these types of damage. Ergo, Amarr appear to get the most extreme bonus to armor tanks.
Cristl	Posted - 2006.11.10 17:27:00 - [27] Best way to consider this is to imagine that each ship is hit by 2 salvos which each contain an EM, therm, kin and explosive missile, where each missile does 100 points of base damage. Assume the first salvo is taken by the shields, and the second damages the armour. the minmatar HAC takes 165 pts to shields, and 204 pts to armour. Total = 369 pts The caldari HAC takes 190 pts to shields and 181 pts to armour. Total = 371 pts. [example working: the min HAC takes to its shields: 25 EM, 40 Exp, 60 Kin and 40 Thermal points of damage] It's pretty balanced.
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.11.10 18:34:00 - [28] supposedly Amarr get the best "overall" t2 resists (on armor of course) with the only hole being therm, and its not even that big of a hole compared to the exp hole on minnie ships. course, these means nothing when we are only race that has no ability to choose damage types (even gallente have drones) so when fighting minnie ships, amarr default to lose more often then not. Originally by: Tuxford Yes we don't play on our main accounts simply because you would lose all respect for us
Imhotep Khem Total Mayhem.	Posted - 2006.11.11 13:16:00 - [29] Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn supposedly Amarr get the best "overall" t2 resists (on armor of course) with the only hole being therm, and its not even that big of a hole compared to the exp hole on minnie ships. course, these means nothing when we are only race that has no ability to choose damage types (even gallente have drones) so when fighting minnie ships, amarr default to lose more often then not. This is wrong. As I said t2 minmatar ships are better long range. Minmatar ammo does less damage long range. Plus when you choose your range you are choosing your damage types too to a degree. ____ "If your not dyin' your not tryin'." "Are you prepared to go all the way, Alexi?" DuGalle
webkert Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.11 15:05:00 - [30] T2 resists are fine. T1 are somewhat broken tho, minmatar ships get a 25% damage reduction to em whilst amarr get an 11% reduction to explosive. Caldari/gallente ships get 15% or so, can't remember exactly.

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