On paper damage and theoretical fleets, are impractical for this discussion. On paper, battleships put out a lot of damage. In practice, they are not so impressive.

Again, there are very few practical reasons to use a battleship. Yes you can fit one to be a flyswatter. But why not fly a destroyer? Or a battle cruiser?

Dismissed as circumstantial.

Coming from a guy that has never actually flown a BS. The nerve.

I didn't dismiss him out a lack of respect. I respect all of the folks on this forum, but his reply was off topic. I don't care what you fit the ship with, or for what role. I am just saying it isn't the ship the designers make it out to be. They are fun to fly, but are largely impractical for too much of the game. Especially for the skill points required.

No i think thats about it, domi, geddon and phoon, maybe raven. From navy an pirate stuff navy domi, mach and rattler - rest is terrible.

All the navy and pirate BS have theyre strengths and uses (yes even the nestor... a bill isk hull tho lol)

My only issue with BS's are theyre vulnerability to Bombs, and slow allign/warp in general ... Everything else is just meta

Depends on the number of bombs

And i mean mainly for moving from system to system (finding fights), JB's and titans arent available all the time

1. Falcon jam the webbing BS, sensor damp the BS.

It doesn't matter. Any e war cruiser will ruin the whole fleet's day. Could a battleship sensor jam a frig? sure, but how specialized would you have to be to pull that off?

Second death to battleship tactic:
Fit a smartbomb on your cruiser

CCP quote:
"Their medium size offers more room for various functional outfitting, and extra punch capable of ripping though unprepared battleships. Their weapons are also light enough to decently track and destroy frigates."

The best tanked frigate will only take < 1/2 of the battleship's damage.

A cruiser could wipe out a battleships drones in seconds.

BCs can tank almost as well and gank as well as battleships.

It doesn't matter. People always hid behind the Megathron/Domi. Those battleships make the mpst sense, but the majority of BS is this game don't. Megathrons have perfect gank, perfect tank, and a good slot configuration. This is rare among the battleship line up.

However, they rarely get a lock on smaller ships. And a falcon will make it a chancy, but one sided fight here. And if anyone ever used a sensor damp on it... The Mega would have to sacrifice speed or web and therefore will never catch it's prey. Its a cool but very needy ship.

Wont waste all of the day comparing ships with you. How many SP will said golem pilot need? End of discussion with you. You really should read the original post.

You like to ignore the SP requirement which is at the heart of this thread. Battleships are not worth the time it takes to fly them.

If there's nothing wrong with battleships? Then why are they so needy?

Its not about fleets and fits though. Its about necessity. There is no good reason to fly battleships.

That's a few billion of isk into the ship and modules. In the video he said he lost marauders to fleets with logistics, neuts, or capital ships/black ops. Still, they can be impressive against the right fleet composition. That can be said of any combat ship, though.

I fly a Kronos, but it is a PvE fit. I'm still debating whether to train Marauders 5 and have one for PvP once I get back into it.

That's the dumbest thing I've heard in a long time. A battlecruiser compared to a battleship is not like walking v. driving. Its more like taking a H2 Hummer v. your fuel efficient sedan to the grocery store. The Armageddon was mentioned earlier, and did not always have drone bonus. Noobs will lose to veterans regardless because, they are noobs. Burden of proof is on you to find a situation where a battleship is better than any other ship in the game. The rationale is based on sig/speed of ship v. SP req and usablity. The truth is: there is no benefit to flying a T1 battleship over another ship. Smaller ships, and cap ships do the job better than battleships.
And if your landlord doesn't provide AC in the summer, his slumlord ass is breaking the law.
link to AZ/AC:http://www.azlawhelp.org/viewquestions.cfm?mc=3&sc=24&qid=23514

That megathron at the end of the video should have easily had him if he were blaster fit with a heavy cap booster. I looked up that megathron fitting, and it had 425mm meta rails with regular antimatter. Not exactly fantastic if he lets the target get that close with no web or scram. It looks like he was fit to be in a fleet with logistics.

Just because I cant help myself this id----newb in need of training joined IRC... He is doomed to fail now.


Lost another Typhoon as well https://beta.eve-kill.net/kill/46920196/

When and why would you fly a marauder over a another ship outside of PVE?

Read the OP. 10 pages of gang theory, and t2 battlships, high sec POS bashing, and some snark. No one has said a way battleships are designed superior to other ships for the ISK and SP invested in them. They are fun to fly, good at PVE, and are your best option for high sec POS bashing.

Double their EHP. For starters.

Otherwise in the rock/paper/scissors environment of EVE it will always be necessary to bring friends to fight things outside of your role. In the meantime a couple of destroyers shouldn't be pasting a mid-range battleship in 30 or 40 seconds.

3. They can tank a smaller ship for a while, but not really T2/T3crusiers/BCs

4. Slow warp speed means you can not chase anything down, so you have to be a victim there unless you are in a gang in which, you might want to fly something else to not slow everyone else down.

5. They can be used in fleet as intimidation, but wouldn't really be successful in a blob as it can not mitigate most of the damage like a smaller faster ship can.

1. Videos = not what I'm asking for

2. I've heard that Gallente Battleships have advantages.

Battleship fits can be countered like any other ship's fits. If a T3 specifically fitted to counter the Battleship's, would the battleships still win?
By your own numbers the battleships lose because they fire slower. In addition, they have to target the T3 first. All of that would leave the battleships vulnerable. EVE battles are too complex for this kind of on paper play.

Doesn't the Abaddon have serious cap issues? You're better off with the Hyperion with that massive tank.

Is it best fitted with reps or plates? What can it be used for? Solo? Bait? WHs? Ratting?

That was then. This is now. And as I said, I am not counting faction battleships in the argument. Everyone goes to faction battleship, or droneboat/Gallente. Bottom line is: there are more practical ships than battleships.

UPON FURTHER REVIEW: Looks like you are a blob legend. No wonder you don't believe there are any under powered ships. All you do is blob everything to death. My goodness!

I don't count blobs as successful PVP especially when you are in a battleeship It is the easiest/safest form of EVE gameplay there is

And as usual, baltec1 delivers the proof via video... which is apparently absolutely not admissible due to being, well... proof.
Also these vids made me want to pew with my ravens. Sadly, my alliance is all about the armor... so I'll just fit up a geddon instead.

Let's face it. T1 battleships are not superior in any way with all the T2/T3 cruisers, battlecruisers, and frigates running around. The saddest part: a blob of smaller ships easily overwhelms them. Now blobs of medium sized hulls are the most effective, as numerous killboards demonstrate. I invite all naysayers to just look at the killboards. How many people are getting kills with battleships, vs cruiser gangs? There is a reason for this.

Flying in a battleship means wasted ISK and time. Cruiser blobs are where the action is. Most battleships do not/ can not survive them. Almost all null sec fleets use T2/T3 crusier doctrines. Just look at the killboards.

I am informing players that there are existing game mechanics that make it better to fly smaller ships. Most of the whining I have seen is from battleship supporters. I use killboard info to back up my point.

Which is why I was just reading something over in F and I the other day about bs and them needing to be better, and see threads like that crop up fairly regularly.

This thread was past it's expiration date two months ago when I first saw it, how the hell is it still on page 1 and why do people continue to waste their time? OP has obviously made some undeniable truths very clear for the rest of you naysayers.

You're right, OP. Battleships are terrible ships and you should never, ever fly one. They serve no purpose in this game whatsoever, they're outclassed by everything from Frigates to Supers and they're a total waste of skill points. You totally hit the nail on the head with your astute observations, and I support your decision to never train or fly any of them! Thumbs up!

*Sneaks off to do fun battleship stuff in a battleship with other battleships.*

...

You know that OP is bad.

Everyone that has read this knows that OP is bad.

OP probably even knows that OP is bad but can't admit it.


Now can we please stop publicizing the OP and his bad ideas?

Still trying to figure out what to use the Geddon for IMO.

It's a weakness that should be remove for a 1.5 bill isk ship. Neuts, neuts and more neuts is all they bring in blobs making neuts overused and abused. There should be at least a few ships with some kind of nuet resistance and If there is a ship that needs some kind of neut resistance, it's definitely the Marauders. That way it would force cheap gangs to bring that 5k+ dps to take down a Marauder or stay home.

You can use a multi-role ship for plenty of things, but your toolbox has many tools in it. Each tool has uses that it excels at. Each class of ship has it's uses, and when utilized by a craftsman who is truly masterful in that particular tool... well, it can produce beautiful results.

The T3 ships do not render the other ship classes obsolete so much as provide a sort of 'multi-tool' which can be employed when you lack the ideal tool, or moreso, craftsman for the job. They let you do more with less pilots, yes. They also are not as well suited as the tools they try to emulate for the jobs at hand. They're plenty powerful, but to say that they supplant the ships they try to emulate is not wholly accurate... almost as good isn't good enough in many circumstances.

I would think that force recon would be a given, since Tengu or any strategic cruiser does not have the d-scan immunity benefit. All depends what you are doing with them though I suppose.

Maybe not a fleet, but the mating call of a bait raven can be reisted by no man.

1. Sentries become BS only weapons to finally balance all that crap out
2. Beat t3s like the were the copy machine in Office Space (most graphically violent movie scene - ever)

The T3Cs have been around for ages now and are very popular. I'd go on the record and say they are the most enjoyable ships to fly in eve. Nerfing such ships to meet your standards Baltec1, would mean the end of eve.

Not everyone enjoys flying Fleet BSs xD.

A savage nerf will ruin these ships, ships that thousands of pilots in eve fly and greatly enjoy. The sub rate for eve now is the lowest I've seen in the 3 years I've played this game, the annihilation of T3Cs would be the final blow for eve old timer.

You seem to judge ships based on their roles in fleets, but you forgot old timer that not everyone plays this game in fleets. Believe it or not some pilots in eve actually play this game solo. And from a solo standpoint the T3Cs are definitely not OP. T3Cs have very tiny cargo holds and cap capacity which means all it takes is just ONE heavy neut to ruin any T3Cs day. Not to mention that you lose SP when you die in these ships xD. They are SLOW even when using the fuel catalyst sub, the fastest speed you can reach is around 1.3k m/s (with links, bling, & implants). The only attribute that is a little high is their base ehp which is around T2 BC level. Other than that, if anything these ships can use a buff and if CCP would be so kind, they can add an off setting ROLE bonus to these ships like:

*CANNOT BE USED IN FLEETS.

That was a long time ago, when eve was still a relatively new and refreshing game with many unexplored possibilities. You think the same thing would happen again where eve has reach the deadlock stage (meaning newer players are much rarer now as eve has now become a veteran only game). Among the vets of eve, I'd say a good 75% of them fly T3C extensively. Whoever thought of the idea of bringing out the T3Cs outdid themselves and now the T3Cs are a mainstay ship class in eve. The only way CCP would get away with destroying them is if they replace them with another ship class that replicated their previous uses. Right now I'd say the only ship class that can do that are the CSs, that is assuming CCP intends on taking care of these forgotten hulls.

I'm not that experienced enough nor are others around my age to just flock to another ship class when they all of a sudden become useless. If CCP removed the Tengu and Protues from it's current place in eve, I would be lost as what to fly in eve. The Cerberus and Deimos don't come close to the versatility that their T3 big brothers provide. What other ship class could replace them? If they leave the void empty, I'm 95% certain it would have a whiplash effect and the sub rate would drop another 30-40% (including myself & alts). Unless they buff the CSs (t2 BCs) to match the current T3Cs standards, the consequences would be dire old timer.

Man I just hope when CCP decides to open a forum discussion on rebalancing the T3Cs, that they DON'T take your advice. Old timers like yourself have forgotten what's it like for newer players when they're finally able to get a handle on a game like eve.