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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |

Deep Nine
State War Academy Caldari State
185
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Posted - 2015.05.15 03:06:04 -
[1] - Quote
The joining of a fleet and the faith put in the fleet commander is by definition an act of trust, in EVE especially. Trust is a commodity that is difficult to earn, easy to violate, and impossible to buy.
The current fleet command options, while they allow a variety of capabilities for the commander do not allow them to actually command ships to do much, limited to warping the ships or regrouping them. While these are generous features alone to be sure, they would do well by being augmented to provide a fleet commander, perhaps not a wing or squad commander or perhaps so as well, with additional options to actually command the ships a step further. As mentioned before, trust in commanders is implicit.
Allowing an expansion of command options would provide metagame content for fleet commanders that is unparalleled in every other MMORPG while allowing the convenience and ease for the Fleets members to turn authority over to their fleet commander to make certain non-combat decisions on their behalf. An additional option could be added for members of a fleet to be able to enable or disable their inclusion in the commanders choice in docking and gating them, this provides several functions.
1.) The building of repport amongst members within a given fleet towards a commander.
2.) Trust building, between members and commander. Giving members of the fleet a choice to disallow docking or gating, allowing them to maintain control over these options or trust In their commander to make the call for them.
3.) Providing additional metagame content, not only for EVE, but especially for the commanders of fleets.
4.) Allowing additional command decisions to be made on behalf of the fleet by the commander at his discretion for the benefit or drawback of his pilots.
5.) These command options can very easily be integrated into the existing fleet window and would expand the content of existing gameplay while providing additional incentive for those who wish to persue further leadership rolls, giving additional cause to do so.
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
8009
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Posted - 2015.05.15 04:05:20 -
[2] - Quote
There is a difference between "Command" and "Control."
To "Command" is for one person to give orders and trust that the people following him/her will do as instructed. It goes both ways you see.
To "Control" is for one person to automatically make others do as he/she bids when he/she bids it. In this, the trust is one-sided.
I say "no" to allowing Fleet Commanders to have de-facto control over a fleet in this manner. Basic flight should remain solely in the hands of the fleetmembers... for better or worse.
How did you Veterans start?
The Skillpoint System and You
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Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2407
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Posted - 2015.05.15 04:07:02 -
[3] - Quote
Fleet ordered 3 second self-destruct. |

Tusker Crazinski
Delta vane Corp. Mordus Angels
68
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Posted - 2015.05.15 04:46:56 -
[4] - Quote
there's already a feature for that.
It's voice activated and The magic words are UNDOCK UNDOCK UNDOCK UNTHEFUCKDOCK RIGHT THEFUCK NOW UNDOCK UNDOCK. |

FireFrenzy
Satan's Unicorns
379
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Posted - 2015.05.15 07:16:46 -
[5] - Quote
and for the other one i believe its JUMPJUMPJUMP... Using the ONE word that is banned on all comms unless you have an "FC" badge after your name;) |

Aivlis Eldelbar
Ubuntu Inc. The Fourth District
87
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Posted - 2015.05.15 10:11:35 -
[6] - Quote
So you essentially want multiboxing, but disguised by controlling other epople's clients? Yeah, no.
Quote:There is a difference between "Command" and "Control." This pretty much sums it up.
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Leto Aramaus
Spiritus Draconis Spaceship Bebop
121
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Posted - 2015.05.15 10:53:18 -
[7] - Quote
We already have fleet warp, which I've heard some make fun of and argue that even that is too much control over other people's clients.
I think fleet warp is fine, for the sake of unified traveling. Fleet jumping would go along that same line, but I still say no to that, to keep the advantage that a fleet of experienced, paying-attention pilots gets over a fleet of people not listening to FC, disobeying orders, etc.
The UI update we deserve
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Noragen Neirfallas
Dedicated and Dangerous The Marmite Collective
665
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Posted - 2015.05.15 11:05:59 -
[8] - Quote
And how do you propose we kill lemmings hmm? 
Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Forum BFFL of Mo
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Zimmer Jones
Aliastra Gallente Federation
202
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Posted - 2015.05.15 14:07:39 -
[9] - Quote
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:And how do you propose we kill lemmings hmm?  Well, to be truthful, the Op's idea would be a good example for killing lemmings:
Lemmings running into the sea is a myth created by Disney. Look closely at the footage of the nature documentary where lemmings "run into the sea," they were being pushed and herded, in some cases thrown off the cliffs.
However in the Op the FC is dragging the lemmings off the cliff with him/her. Edit: some FCs would love it. Some fleets I have been in wait 5+seconds to jump after orders because of "..wait don't jump anyone that jumped is dead or has to sing.."
Still, unsupported. chorus lines of 256 eve players.. Gives me chills
You are content to be content. This is not a jedi mind trick, you're just the game
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Samillian
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
783
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Posted - 2015.05.15 14:32:48 -
[10] - Quote
Enabling the majority of a fleet to watch Netflix while occasionally pressing F1 or activating a prop mod when they hear the command called on comms while the rest of the fight is managed by the FC via broadcast duplication does not strike me as an effective way of building teams, encouraging trust or deeper participation in the game.
Not supported.
NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
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Deep Nine
State War Academy Caldari State
192
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Posted - 2015.05.15 17:56:54 -
[11] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:There is a difference between "Command" and "Control."
To "Command" is for one person to give orders and trust that the people following him/her will do as instructed. It goes both ways you see.
To "Control" is for one person to automatically make others do as he/she bids when he/she bids it. In this, the trust is one-sided.
I say "no" to allowing Fleet Commanders to have de-facto control over a fleet in this manner. Basic flight should remain solely in the hands of the fleetmembers... for better or worse.
By this definition Warp Fleet command and Regroup should not be allowed anymore then Gate Fleet or Dock Fleet Members. |

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
8017
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Posted - 2015.05.15 18:05:38 -
[12] - Quote
Quote:By this definition Warp Fleet command and Regroup should not be allowed anymore then Gate Fleet or Dock Fleet Members.

How did you Veterans start?
The Skillpoint System and You
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Deep Nine
State War Academy Caldari State
192
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Posted - 2015.05.15 18:07:01 -
[13] - Quote
Leto Aramaus wrote:We already have fleet warp, which I've heard some make fun of and argue that even that is too much control over other people's clients.
I think fleet warp is fine, for the sake of unified traveling. Fleet jumping would go along that same line, but I still say no to that, to keep the advantage that a fleet of experienced, paying-attention pilots gets over a fleet of people not listening to FC, disobeying orders, etc.
Players that are afk during any of these commands would run the same risks as they would during Fleet Gate, or less risk, fleet dock. These additional options would also have use in unified travel and the five stated advantages issued in the OP.
Paying-attention is something an individual pilot must decide for themselves, attempting to coerce players to do this outside of the game is another matter all together.
Thank You for your input. |

Lucious Lyon
Republic University Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2015.05.15 18:19:58 -
[14] - Quote
risk be somethingg errone in dis need to except
keep it up dawg, you doin good.
I following you posts man good stuff |

Samillian
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
784
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Posted - 2015.05.15 18:35:35 -
[15] - Quote
Lucious Lyon wrote:risk be somethingg errone in dis need to except
keep it up dawg, you doin good.
I following you posts man good stuff
I'm interested, how is having someone else running your ship and playing the game for you accepting risk?
Isn't it rather allowing you to not bother with learning the fundamentals of being an effective fleet member while helping to abrogate your responsibilities to your fleet mates?
NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
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Iain Cariaba
1353
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Posted - 2015.05.15 18:56:17 -
[16] - Quote
So this suggestion combined with any of the multiple ways to macro commands pretty much negates the banning of command broadcasting.
Yeah, this is a good idea. 
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
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Deep Nine
State War Academy Caldari State
192
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Posted - 2015.05.15 19:08:42 -
[17] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:So this suggestion combined with any of the multiple ways to macro commands pretty much negates the banning of command broadcasting.
Yeah, this is a good idea.
No. However, this thread is about expanding the command options available to Fleet Commanders. |

Noragen Neirfallas
Dedicated and Dangerous The Marmite Collective
667
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Posted - 2015.05.15 19:55:51 -
[18] - Quote
Fleet anchor up. Fleet lock target. Fleet F1.
All seems solid to me let's add the lot
Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Forum BFFL of Mo
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Alexis Nightwish
191
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Posted - 2015.05.15 19:56:18 -
[19] - Quote
Fozzie wants to get rid of fleet warp, so good luck with this.
CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge
EVE Online's "I win!" Button
Fixing bombs, not the bombers
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Titus Veridius
Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder
15
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Posted - 2015.05.15 20:21:19 -
[20] - Quote
THE EMPRESS NEEDS HER BOAT FINISHED TO DEFEAT THE DRIFTERS! - Petition to Finish the Aeon Model -
http://i.imgur.com/myo5mKg.jpg
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5748552#post5748552 |
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Deep Nine
State War Academy Caldari State
206
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Posted - 2015.05.15 21:21:56 -
[21] - Quote
An additional feature that shouldn't go unmentioned as well should be the advent of Hot Keys for the feature of not only Mass Dock and Mass Gate, but also and for Fleet Warp, Fleet Jump, and Regroup as well.
This would allow further tight-nit dynamic use of the Fleet commanders ability to direct and guide his fleet, wings, and squads with additional ease. It makes logical sense that since almost every aspect of piloting and navigation is represented with a possible hot key, that these choices should be represented as well.
Progression of these features would allow further dynamic gameplay and immersion for the roles of leadership while allowing the progressive relationship of trust to be built between the fleets members. |

Iain Cariaba
1353
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Posted - 2015.05.15 21:30:33 -
[22] - Quote
Command broadcasting, AKA sending commands from one input device to multiple clients at the same time, is forbidden by the TOS/EULA.
This suggestion would directly violate the TOS/EULA.
/thread
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
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Valkin Mordirc
979
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Posted - 2015.05.15 21:50:41 -
[23] - Quote
This would so abusable.
Invite Target to fleet. >Make him Undock >Warp him to belt >Murder.
#DeleteTheWeak
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The Boogieman
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.05.15 21:51:48 -
[24] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Command broadcasting, AKA sending commands from one input device to multiple clients at the same time, is forbidden by the TOS/EULA.
This suggestion would directly violate the TOS/EULA.
/thread
Sounds to me like someone needs a bottle of Johnson and Johnson. |

Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1574
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Posted - 2015.05.16 01:00:09 -
[25] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:This would so abusable.
Invite Target to fleet. >Make him Undock >Warp him to belt >Murder.
And even when it's used as intended, it asks nothing of line members, who will no longer have any reason to pay attention during trips and who will never learn the most basic commands necessary to form a disciplined fleet. They can watch TV until the FC calls out "anchor" or"primary"--assuming that they haven't gone AFK altogether. High sec mining ops require more attention.
I have no idea how this is supposed to build much of anything in anyone. The line members become children and the FC becomes a bus driver.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
I voted in CSM X!
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Deep Nine
State War Academy Caldari State
223
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Posted - 2015.05.16 01:52:19 -
[26] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Valkin Mordirc wrote:This would so abusable.
Invite Target to fleet. >Make him Undock >Warp him to belt >Murder. And even when it's used as intended, it asks nothing of line members, who will no longer have any reason to pay attention during trips and who will never learn the most basic commands necessary to form a disciplined fleet. They can watch TV until the FC calls out "anchor" or"primary"--assuming that they haven't gone AFK altogether. High sec mining ops require more attention. I have no idea how this is supposed to build much of anything in anyone. The line members become children and the FC becomes a bus driver.
Besides the fact I never mentioned, or implied, being able to undock fleet members. It does provide opportunity for not only fleet commanders to refine their fleets by identifying slackers (useful), it would provide more element of risk to careless pilots, allowing commanders to define their fleets by sorting out AFK'ers (teaching them the necessity to be present, and instilling discipline where needed, or expelling them when they fail to show improvement, more realistic), it would give more versatility to commanders as stated before, and even allow more discretion for the fleet commander to decide action taken once a location is reached. And that is beside the aforementioned reasons stated in the OP.
Citing AFK as a reason to stop any suggested idea is moot at best and infantile bare minimum. From open displays of protest, the vast majority of argument comes from feelings and not any logical debate based on experience or any real information.
There is a great deal of focus on feelings about afk while leaving out any sort of actual logical argument based on hard facts or points while over-emphasizing a desperate need to control others behavior in real life with a ball and chain shackling them close to a keyboard. The aspect of discipline and presence of pilots, once again, should be something a commander is in charge of determining, that is, determining the worthiness, discipline, reliability, and consistency of his pilots, making by nature a more cultivated and disciplined unit. A poor craftsman blames his tools, a poor commander does result in a poor, undisciplined, lackadaisical, unit ripe for slaughter, as it should be in EvE. Anyone with any real military experience knows this.
Your lack of insight into the purpose or use of this suggestion is primarily based on emotions, feelings, personal agenda, dislikes, or otherwise opinions given to you via 3rd party.
perhaps it should be more engineered to be, in the facet of leadership. This suggestion helps refine, define, and determine the process. |

The Boogieman
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2015.05.16 13:56:11 -
[27] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:This would so abusable.
Invite Target to fleet. >Make him Undock >Warp him to belt >Murder.
>Imply something that wasent said >further false narrative >finish with a threat
Win. |

Hellen Killer
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.05.17 11:51:30 -
[28] - Quote
Quote:There is a great deal of focus on feelings about afk while leaving out any sort of actual logical argument based on hard facts or points while over-emphasizing a desperate need to control others behavior in real life with a ball and chain shackling them close to a keyboard. The aspect of discipline and presence of pilots, once again, should be something a commander is in charge of determining, that is, determining the worthiness, discipline, reliability, and consistency of his pilots, making by nature a more cultivated and disciplined unit. A poor craftsman blames his tools, a poor commander does result in a poor, undisciplined, lackadaisical, unit ripe for slaughter, as it should be in EvE. Anyone with any real military experience knows this.
Point taken. |

Mr Thicke
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.05.17 22:37:21 -
[29] - Quote
It'll never happen because Goonswarm says no, and everyone knows when they don't sign off on something it wont happen.
They own and run this game, get over it and move on. |

Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
639
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Posted - 2015.05.18 01:03:31 -
[30] - Quote
Mr Thicke wrote:It'll never happen because Goonswarm says no, and everyone knows when they don't sign off on something it wont happen.
They own and run this game, get over it and move on.
where the hell did the grrr goons come from? lol.
the blob would want this chief. Fleet warp, fleet undock, fleet etc....mix with drone doctrine and assigning they could phone in the war as it were lol.
You see we "lack" these things because they are part of the human element to the game. The most perfect plans start to go awry by people who don't follow simple instructions. This is intended. Enough people mess up following orders, bad things can and will happen. Solution: get these people to follow orders better. Or recruit better people really. |
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