There is a difference between "Command" and "Control."

And how do you propose we kill lemmings hmm?

There is a difference between "Command" and "Control."

To "Command" is for one person to give orders and trust that the people following him/her will do as instructed.
It goes both ways you see.

To "Control" is for one person to automatically make others do as he/she bids when he/she bids it.
In this, the trust is one-sided.


I say "no" to allowing Fleet Commanders to have de-facto control over a fleet in this manner. Basic flight should remain solely in the hands of the fleetmembers... for better or worse.

By this definition Warp Fleet command and Regroup should not be allowed anymore then Gate Fleet or Dock Fleet Members.

We already have fleet warp, which I've heard some make fun of and argue that even that is too much control over other people's clients.

I think fleet warp is fine, for the sake of unified traveling. Fleet jumping would go along that same line, but I still say no to that, to keep the advantage that a fleet of experienced, paying-attention pilots gets over a fleet of people not listening to FC, disobeying orders, etc.

risk be somethingg errone in dis need to except

keep it up dawg, you doin good.

I following you posts man good stuff

So this suggestion combined with any of the multiple ways to macro commands pretty much negates the banning of command broadcasting.

Yeah, this is a good idea.

Command broadcasting, AKA sending commands from one input device to multiple clients at the same time, is forbidden by the TOS/EULA.

This suggestion would directly violate the TOS/EULA.

/thread

This would so abusable.

Invite Target to fleet.
>Make him Undock
>Warp him to belt
>Murder.

And even when it's used as intended, it asks nothing of line members, who will no longer have any reason to pay attention during trips and who will never learn the most basic commands necessary to form a disciplined fleet. They can watch TV until the FC calls out "anchor" or"primary"--assuming that they haven't gone AFK altogether. High sec mining ops require more attention.

I have no idea how this is supposed to build much of anything in anyone. The line members become children and the FC becomes a bus driver.

EvE is Real?

This would so abusable.

Invite Target to fleet.
>Make him Undock
>Warp him to belt
>Murder.

There is a great deal of focus on feelings about afk while leaving out any sort of actual logical argument based on hard facts or points while over-emphasizing a desperate need to control others behavior in real life with a ball and chain shackling them close to a keyboard. The aspect of discipline and presence of pilots, once again, should be something a commander is in charge of determining, that is, determining the worthiness, discipline, reliability, and consistency of his pilots, making by nature a more cultivated and disciplined unit. A poor craftsman blames his tools, a poor commander does result in a poor, undisciplined, lackadaisical, unit ripe for slaughter, as it should be in EvE. Anyone with any real military experience knows this.

It'll never happen because Goonswarm says no, and everyone knows when they don't sign off on something it wont happen.

They own and run this game, get over it and move on.

You see we "lack" these things because they are part of the human element to the game. The most perfect plans start to go awry by people who don't follow simple instructions. This is intended. Enough people mess up following orders, bad things can and will happen. Solution: get these people to follow orders better. Or recruit better people really.

where the hell did the grrr goons come from? lol.

the blob would want this chief. Fleet warp, fleet undock, fleet etc....mix with drone doctrine and assigning they could phone in the war as it were lol.


You see we "lack" these things because they are part of the human element to the game. The most perfect plans start to go awry by people who don't follow simple instructions. This is intended. Enough people mess up following orders, bad things can and will happen. Solution: get these people to follow orders better. Or recruit better people really.

where the hell did the grrr goons come from? lol.
the blob would want this chief. Fleet warp, fleet undock, fleet etc....mix with drone doctrine and assigning they could phone in the war as it were lol.
You see we "lack" these things because they are part of the human element to the game. The most perfect plans start to go awry by people who don't follow simple instructions. This is intended. Enough people mess up following orders, bad things can and will happen. Solution: get these people to follow orders better. Or recruit better people really.

Once again. No one suggested fleet undock. Continuously implying this is ineffective, irrational, and changes nothing I've said.

However, I have openly displayed more then a half a dozen reasons as to why this new mechanic would be useful.

It makes logical sense, along with the suggestion I've made for members to be able to toggle it on/off, that fleet commanders would have this ability as it does not assert direct control over the fleet members combat abilities, while it does expand on the commanders abilities (which they already posses certain ones) to be able to navigate their pilots ships with non-combat commands. This provides additional immersion gameplay and incentive for pilots to train for, and work towards, leadership roll in EvE as it gives them a great deal of authority and power over those who trust their fleet commanders with their pods and ships, while those who do not fully trust him, can turn it off at their discretion, also adding an element to the metagame of leadership that would be openly displayed for a commander to observe.

This should be an ability gained only upon training Fleet Command, not something squad or even Wing commanders would have access to. This does not in anyway usurp the human element from the game and actually helps to hone it.

Sorry to throw a wrench in your idea, but this isn't going to happen.

Where do we draw the line? Fleet activate hardeners? Fleet cycle guns?

I hate being a debby downer but removing the need for a pilot to fly their own ship is not on CCP's roadmap, I assure you.

Sorry to throw a wrench in your idea, but this isn't going to happen.

Where do we draw the line? Fleet activate hardeners? Fleet cycle guns?

I hate being a debby downer but removing the need for a pilot to fly their own ship is not on CCP's roadmap, I assure you.

Please Please Please! I'd love to sneak into a fleet as a squad or wing commander and make 10-50 people jump a gate without the rest of the fleet following. The tears after they get destroyed would be glorious!

This should be an ability gained only upon training Fleet Command, not something squad or even Wing commanders would have access to. This does not in anyway usurp the human element from the game and actually helps to hone it.

This
Like the other guy said there needs to be a fine line between command and control

I have definitely drawn the line, please reread the thread.

As was stated before, this would not be possible. And was never suggested.

So, in addition to playing the game for all the players in your fleet with the exception of target lock and pressing f1, you want this to operate through a system inconsistent with the existing wing warps. Got it. This sounds like a great idea.
Fleet warps are a nice system because they keep the fleet together and can be canceled by the players. They do not fully replace the line member's actions as a means to travel. Your suggestions would allow the fleet members to go afk for minutes at a time while the FC moves around for them, and if the FC activates a dock/jump command there is no option for them to cancel it.

-1

So, in addition to playing the game for all the players in your fleet with the exception of target lock and pressing f1, you want this to operate through a system inconsistent with the existing wing warps. Got it. This sounds like a great idea.

Fleet warps are a nice system because they keep the fleet together and can be canceled by the players.

They do not fully replace the line member's actions as a means to travel. Your suggestions would allow the fleet members to go afk for minutes at a time while the FC moves around for them, and if the FC activates a dock/jump command there is no option for them to cancel it.

Sorry to throw a wrench in your idea, but this isn't going to happen.

Where do we draw the line? Fleet activate hardeners? Fleet cycle guns?

I hate being a debby downer but removing the need for a pilot to fly their own ship is not on CCP's roadmap, I assure you.

Besides the fact I never mentioned, or implied, being able to undock fleet members.

It does provide opportunity for not only fleet commanders to refine their fleets by identifying slackers (useful), it would provide more element of risk to careless pilots, allowing commanders to define their fleets by sorting out AFK'ers (teaching them the necessity to be present, and instilling discipline where needed, or expelling them when they fail to show improvement, more realistic), it would give more versatility to commanders as stated before, and even allow more discretion for the fleet commander to decide action taken once a location is reached. And that is beside the aforementioned reasons stated in the OP.

Citing AFK as a reason to stop any suggested idea is moot at best and infantile bare minimum.

There is a great deal of focus on feelings about afk while leaving out any sort of actual logical argument based on hard facts or points while over-emphasizing a desperate need to control others behavior in real life with a ball and chain shackling them close to a keyboard.

Is fleet warp still on Fozzie's death list?

I personally think he made a decent case for it.

i could see how it could be used and how it could help fleet leaders better categorize their people. Like he said, part of the metagame.

It may be ahead of its time, but I would support it if not just to see the effect it would have on fleets.

Bump

Not allowed in this forum bro.

15. Bumping outside the EVE Marketplace and Alliance & Corporation Recruitment channels is prohibited.

Additionally, if you have to bump a thread in F&I, it's because no one cares enough about your idea to keep the thread alive.

(Updated from the original)

The joining of a fleet and the faith put in the fleet commander is by definition an act of trust, in EVE especially. Trust is a commodity that is difficult to earn, easy to violate, and impossible to buy.

The current fleet command options, while they allow a variety of capabilities for the commander do not allow them to actually command ships to do much, limited to warping the ships or regrouping them. While these are generous features alone to be sure, they would do well by being augmented to provide a fleet commander, perhaps not a wing or squad commander or perhaps so as well, with additional options to actually command the ships a step further. As mentioned before, trust in commanders is implicit.

Allowing an expansion of command options would provide metagame content for fleet commanders that is unparalleled in every other MMORPG while allowing the convenience and ease for the Fleets members to turn authority over to their fleet commander to make certain non-combat decisions on their behalf. An additional option could be added for members of a fleet to be able to enable or disable their inclusion in the commanders choice in docking and gating them, this provides several functions.

1.) The building of repport amongst members within a given fleet towards a commander.

2.) Trust building, between members and commander. Giving members of the fleet a choice to disallow docking or gating, allowing them to maintain control over these options or trust In their commander to make the call for them.

3.) Providing additional metagame content, not only for EVE, but especially for the commanders of fleets.

4.) Allowing additional command decisions to be made on behalf of the fleet by the commander at his discretion for the benefit or drawback of his pilots.

5.) These command options can very easily be integrated into the existing fleet window and would expand the content of existing gameplay while providing additional incentive for those who wish to persue further leadership rolls, giving additional cause to do so.

An additional feature that shouldn't go unmentioned as well should be the advent of Hot Keys for the feature of not only Mass Dock and Mass Gate, but also and for Fleet Warp, Fleet Jump, and Regroup as well.

This would allow further tight-nit dynamic use of the Fleet commanders ability to direct and guide his fleet, wings, and squads with additional ease. It makes logical sense that since almost every aspect of piloting and navigation is represented with a possible hot key, that these choices should be represented as well.

Progression of these features would allow further dynamic gameplay and immersion for the roles of leadership while allowing the progressive relationship of trust to be built between the fleets members.

Dev and CCP can determine that for the good of all pilots, the idea is proposed and its merits laid bare.

Yo Deep Nine try to make your forum alt agreeing with your every word actually try and have a life of it's own to not be so obvious

At what point would these suggested options become viable?

we have fleet warp to allow fleets to remain together

So would fleet gate and fleet dock.

Fleet warps need a nerf

Fleet warp needs to be simply removed imho. It made manoeuvrability of big fleets to easy when it shouldn't be.
Bad pilots should die to piloting mistakes, disengaging a fleet should let slow people behind to die etc.

If I remember correctly Fozzie mentionned it once, I hope he actually has a plan for this.