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Crimson Grimslow Total Recoil. Brothers of Tangra 0	Posted - 2015.05.15 06:13:48 - [1] - Quote Ok So first off im not sure if this is the right place to suggest this, so feel free to tell me if its not. My idea. RMT has always been a topic of scrutiny. For as long as we have been playing MMOs RMT seems to have been a part of it. ts not going anywhere. CCP has made it slightly legal. But why not be fully legal? CCP could easily act as a middle man. For example and to better explain. Player A wants to acquire 20 Billion isk. Player B has 20 Billion isk he is willing to part with. Player A advertises on isk exchange forums. Player B sets up trade. CCP oversees trade and takes a cut. Say 10% of the cash exchanged. Boom everyone is happy. CCP gets its dues. A gets his riches and B gets to pay the rent. In eve RMT is a generally accepted thing. reason being. It doesnt matter how fat your wallet is if you dont play the game your not gonna be any good. Now obviously there will be certain legal things that ccp will have to work out. And it will need more thought then the 10 minutes ive put into it. But isnt that what lawyers are for? Anyway thats my idea. Let me know what you think.
Omnathious Deninard Novis Initiis 2851	Posted - 2015.05.15 06:25:25 - [2] - Quote Quote: CCP has made it slightly legal. But why not be fully legal? When did this happen, CCP has always been against it. Roleplaying Trinkets for Explorers and Collectors
Crimson Grimslow Total Recoil. Brothers of Tangra 0	Posted - 2015.05.15 06:27:11 - [3] - Quote Omnathious Deninard wrote: Quote: CCP has made it slightly legal. But why not be fully legal? When did this happen, CCP has always been against it. GTC is a form of RMT.
Haatakan Reppola Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 7	Posted - 2015.05.15 06:33:06 - [4] - Quote Crimson Grimslow wrote: Omnathious Deninard wrote: Quote: CCP has made it slightly legal. But why not be fully legal? When did this happen, CCP has always been against it. GTC is a form of RMT. Can you use GTC to cash out all that ISK you will never use? If the answer is "no" then its not RMT (your not selling your ISK for RL money)
Crimson Grimslow Total Recoil. Brothers of Tangra 0	Posted - 2015.05.15 06:40:24 - [5] - Quote Haatakan Reppola wrote: Crimson Grimslow wrote: Omnathious Deninard wrote: Quote: CCP has made it slightly legal. But why not be fully legal? When did this happen, CCP has always been against it. GTC is a form of RMT. Can you use GTC to cash out all that ISK you will never use? If the answer is "no" then its not RMT (your not selling your ISK for RL money) That is why its not real RMT Im curios did you even read all of my post or did you stop at the half legal thing. GTC trading is RMT the same way plex trading is. Some one at some point paid RL money to get there hands on the currency. Its just instead of that guy farming isk in null getting to pay rent he gets to pay his eve bill. CCP is a corporation they want money. and they dont like RMT because it cuts into there profits my post is a simplified way for them to make money off of this. Nothing more or less. GTC trading is defined legally as RMT trading whether you consider it that or not.
Haatakan Reppola Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 7	Posted - 2015.05.15 06:46:07 - [6] - Quote You dont buy ingame currency, you buy an ingame item that have a fluid ISK value. The only Real Money Trade involved is paying CCP for an ingame item, thats worlds apart from selling your ingame ISK.
Crimson Grimslow Total Recoil. Brothers of Tangra 0	Posted - 2015.05.15 06:51:31 - [7] - Quote Haatakan Reppola wrote: You dont buy ingame currency, you buy an ingame item that have a fluid ISK value. The only Real Money Trade involved is paying CCP for an ingame item, thats worlds apart from selling your ingame ISK. What the hell do you think isk is? candy for litlle children? If you cant even tell That Intersteller Kredits is a form of CURRENCY then your hole argument on RMT is null ad void. Now unless you have an actual opinion on the IDEA I PROPOSED rather then arguing on a subject i don't give two ***** about then please just stop posting
Madd Adda 90	Posted - 2015.05.15 06:58:21 - [8] - Quote and if it was made legal? bot farming/incursion running would skyrocket , and shady scam sites would crop up constantly. I'm no lawyer but I'm sure there's some kind of liability issue for CCP if RMT between players is legalized. Carebear extraordinaire
FireFrenzy Satan's Unicorns 379	Posted - 2015.05.15 07:14:40 - [9] - Quote And player B is catered too.... he can just buy plex and sell them and player A can "cash out" by not paying for his subscription. Takes a little longer but... Also how about we DONT add rmt? we finally have most of that **** OUT of this game...
Crimson Grimslow Total Recoil. Brothers of Tangra 0	Posted - 2015.05.15 07:19:33 - [10] - Quote Madd Adda wrote: and if it was made legal? bot farming/incursion running would skyrocket , and shady scam sites would crop up constantly. I'm no lawyer but I'm sure there's some kind of liability issue for CCP if RMT between players is legalized. read my original post. If ccp writes up a proper document which any multinational corporation will do then they wont be held liable. Further more If they oversee said transactions instead of handing it over to third partys then those scam sights would be illegal either way. CCP would be the licensed broker and therefore these sights would hold no meaning. Its not hard to set up a few guidelines the first of which would simply state that ccp is not liable for scamming done outside of the network. And would add a safety net. Such as the offending player being banned and the scamed player being compensated(if done in network) and both partys being banned if done out of network.. in addition its not uncommon for brokers to act as holders aswell. For example Party a wants to buy say a 2 bill. Party b wants to sell 2 bill for 20 dollars. Part c the broker(CCP) would then take 2 billion from the seller and then 20 dollars from the buyer. And proceed with swapping. The buyer would get 18 dollars . 2 dollars would go to ccp for the brokers fee. And then any scam or problem that would emerge would then be at ccps fault. Which is a risk. But no more a risk then buying plex and then them charging twice what you authorized.
Fourteen Maken The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Enemy Spotted. 153	Posted - 2015.05.15 07:37:50 - [11] - Quote Crimson Grimslow wrote: Player B sets up trade. CCP oversees trade and takes a cut. Say 10% of the cash exchanged. . I buy ISK with real money as it is through the plex market and 100% of the proceeds go to CCP... which they then use to hire unprofessional, under qualified, role playing game devs who troll me with every other patch that comes out... so +1 from me but for all the wrong reasons Seriously though you're asking turkeys to vote for Christmas, this thread will be locked and you'll probably be warned for even suggesting it.
Madd Adda 90	Posted - 2015.05.15 07:39:44 - [12] - Quote Crimson Grimslow wrote: Madd Adda wrote: and if it was made legal? bot farming/incursion running would skyrocket , and shady scam sites would crop up constantly. I'm no lawyer but I'm sure there's some kind of liability issue for CCP if RMT between players is legalized. read my original post. If ccp writes up a proper document which any multinational corporation will do then they wont be held liable. Further more If they oversee said transactions instead of handing it over to third partys then those scam sights would be illegal either way. CCP would be the licensed broker and therefore these sights would hold no meaning. Its not hard to set up a few guidelines the first of which would simply state that ccp is not liable for scamming done outside of the network. And would add a safety net. Such as the offending player being banned and the scamed player being compensated(if done in network) and both partys being banned if done out of network.. in addition its not uncommon for brokers to act as holders aswell. For example Party a wants to buy say a 2 bill. Party b wants to sell 2 bill for 20 dollars. Part c the broker(CCP) would then take 2 billion from the seller and then 20 dollars from the buyer. And proceed with swapping. The buyer would get 18 dollars . 2 dollars would go to ccp for the brokers fee. And then any scam or problem that would emerge would then be at ccps fault. Which is a risk. But no more a risk then buying plex and then them charging twice what you authorized. you go on a lot of assumptions on whether CCP can even get those multinational corporations to consent to these agreements (or even want to), without any issue. the broker would need access to the player account to get at the money, that's access to the game server. I doubt CCP would allow outsiders, even if they are contracted, access to their property. How can the player retrieve the money? How about sending the money to the broker for the transactions? How about stuff like taxation? There is bound to be a lot of red tape to go through to get things going, and more just to get it going smoothly. RMT would only cause people to make their job to farm isk for money (something i suspect you are steering towards) and cause more bot like behavior. This isn't even going into what can go wrong: the allegations of fraud/fraudulent behavior ,theft of game accounts, the in game scamming that is already allowed treading on illegality, etc. There is too much that can go wrong and CCP could easily wind up losing everything. I see no benefit in this that warrants this kind of risk. Carebear extraordinaire
Noragen Neirfallas Dedicated and Dangerous The Marmite Collective 664	Posted - 2015.05.15 07:54:16 - [13] - Quote Serious issues 1 CCP allow this they are ceding ownership of virtual assets to the players. Scamming could become a real life crime. As is CCP own it all you just get to play with it 2 all money transfers currently have to 100% go into CCP's wallets. Making rmt legal means some of this won't wind up in ccp's wallets. Minor issues 1 there is so much isk in the game right now isk would be as worthless as gold was in diablo 3 overnight 2 hacking attempts would skyrocket in attempts to generate isk as it could be easily transfered to real money forcing CCP to spend more of its reduced profits on security 3 every single incursion site would be 100% full of bots and until it was worthless every asteroid belt 4 the resulting inflation would mean anybody not buying isk wouldn't be able to compete In closing I'm 100% against rmt being anything other then a real life crime and perma ban offence. Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment Forum BFFL of Mo
Noragen Neirfallas Dedicated and Dangerous The Marmite Collective 664	Posted - 2015.05.15 07:59:18 - [14] - Quote Also CCP acting as brokers? Now they have to hire more staff to do this with reduced profits from plex sales. Is would struggle to monitor the bot posts in market place. God this would wreck so much so quickly. If you were sitting on a trillion isk it would be worthless overnight... oh also nullsec would be a big blue farmers paradice overnight... Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment Forum BFFL of Mo
Mag's the united 19408	Posted - 2015.05.15 08:11:11 - [15] - Quote Crimson Grimslow wrote: GTC trading is defined legally as RMT trading whether you consider it that or not. No it's not, whether you consider it is or not. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
HiddenPorpoise Under Dark Sins of our Fathers 324	Posted - 2015.05.15 08:12:25 - [16] - Quote Crimson Grimslow wrote: Madd Adda wrote: and if it was made legal? bot farming/incursion running would skyrocket , and shady scam sites would crop up constantly. I'm no lawyer but I'm sure there's some kind of liability issue for CCP if RMT between players is legalized. read my original post. If ccp writes up a proper document which any multinational corporation will do then they wont be held liable. Are you a child? If they fomalize RMT they are legally a bank (they've said that's why they wouldn't if they want to). Writing "we aren't liable" doesn't magically make that true. They don't want to be a launderer.
Yun Kuai Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop 252	Posted - 2015.05.15 08:41:32 - [17] - Quote You know, for a Russian bot, your English is really good. I'm quite surprised actually. This is quite possibly the dumbest idea you could propose in this game. The trillionaires that are board with EvE would just sell all of their isk for hundres, maybe even thousands of dollars, and then quit the game for good. Also, lets no forget how much illegal stuff in RL would be happening through this "free" laundering service. -1 Russian bot, go back to your creator and work on a better program. --------------------------------------------------------::::::::::::--:::-----:::---::::::::::::--------------:::----------:::----:::---:::----------------------:::::::-------:::---:::----::::::-------------------:::-----------:::--:::----:::---------------------::::::::::::----:::::::----:::::::::::::-------
Infrequent Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly. 83	Posted - 2015.05.15 08:46:58 - [18] - Quote No, just no.
Iroquoiss Pliskin Hedion University Amarr Empire 596	Posted - 2015.05.15 09:27:49 - [19] - Quote Are you nuts? So that people could farm 23.5/7 now overtly for RMT, while "playing" Eve? A large portion of the population will convert to this, and then it will attract other sholupen, just like ISBoxer did. Farmers would then undercut the concept of PLEX, or Aurum, and your peasant 10% won't make up the difference. Nope. NOPE. Noragen Neirfallas wrote: Serious issues 1 CCP allow this they are ceding ownership of virtual assets to the players. Scamming could become a real life crime. As is CCP own it all you just get to play with it This. ISK doesn't have full convertibility, if it did - prepare for a can of worms that you've never ever seen in the history of online gaming. It tells you how successful the economy and the concept of the game is in general, when "ideas" like these come up! // Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept // Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
Arya Regnar Darwins Right Hand 706	Posted - 2015.05.15 09:50:18 - [20] - Quote CCP wouldn't have as much cash from it as they do from it now. And it becomes a RL sandbox where crimes are crimes and that's no fun. EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Iroquoiss Pliskin Hedion University Amarr Empire 599	Posted - 2015.05.15 09:54:33 - [21] - Quote Arya Regnar wrote: CCP wouldn't have as much cash from it as they do from it now. And it becomes a RL sandbox where crimes are crimes and that's no fun. Real life murder over a Titan welp. You heard it here first, bois. // Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept // Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
Fourteen Maken The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Enemy Spotted. 155	Posted - 2015.05.15 10:01:25 - [22] - Quote Yun Kuai wrote: You know, for a Russian bot, your English is really good. I'm quite surprised actually. This is quite possibly the dumbest idea you could propose in this game. The trillionaires that are board with EvE would just sell all of their isk for hundres, maybe even thousands of dollars, and then quit the game for good. Also, lets no forget how much illegal stuff in RL would be happening through this "free" laundering service. -1 Russian bot, go back to your creator and work on a better program. Isk would become Russia's third largest export after fossil fuels and internet brides.
Iroquoiss Pliskin Hedion University Amarr Empire 599	Posted - 2015.05.15 10:12:28 - [23] - Quote Case in point is that people go over all of this for ISK and drama: from awoxing to doxing and theft, to disbanding of whole major alliances through director level spies. Imagine what will be done for real life money by some contingents, if the mechanics and the workings of the game stay the same. Even zKillboard attaches real life value to the kills right now, which I see as a travesty. // Turret-Equivalent of the Rapid ML Concept // Cruisers Online - [Damage done in PvP by Shiptype]
Noragen Neirfallas Dedicated and Dangerous The Marmite Collective 665	Posted - 2015.05.15 10:39:17 - [24] - Quote Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote: Arya Regnar wrote: CCP wouldn't have as much cash from it as they do from it now. And it becomes a RL sandbox where crimes are crimes and that's no fun. Real life murder over a Titan welp. You heard it here first, bois. Personally I like my crimes to be crime free Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment Forum BFFL of Mo
Dustpuppy New Eden Ferengi 113	Posted - 2015.05.15 11:37:11 - [25] - Quote Crimson Grimslow wrote: CCP could easily act as a middle man. For example and to better explain. Player A wants to acquire 20 Billion isk. Player B has 20 Billion isk he is willing to part with. Player A advertises on isk exchange forums. Player B sets up trade. CCP oversees trade and takes a cut. Say 10% of the cash exchanged. This idea dosn't work. What CCP wants and what is valid is that they get the real money when you purchase isk. REAL money means Dollar, Euro, Pound, Ruble, whatever but not ISK. You purchase a PLEX from CCP, you get ISK, they get real money. In your example player A pays real money to player B and not CCP. CCP only gets isk and there are easier ways to create ISK sinks in the game.
TigerXtrm Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance 1109	Posted - 2015.05.15 11:49:16 - [26] - Quote I'm actually fairly certain this wouldn't even be legal for CCP to allow, as it would facilitate money laundering. The only way such a system would be allowed in many modern countries is if CCP would impose very strict rules on their account registration, requiring someone to confirm their identity somehow (copies of ID or passports) and confirming someone's place of residence. Needless to say, this would effectively kill the game because no-one is going to do that just to play a game. So even if CCP would WANT to allow it, they couldn't without effectively killing their game. And that doesn't even go into why allowing RMT is such an insanely ret*rded idea... My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
Arya Regnar Darwins Right Hand 707	Posted - 2015.05.15 12:06:31 - [27] - Quote Noragen Neirfallas wrote: Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote: Real life murder over a Titan welp. You heard it here first, bois. Personally I like my crimes to be crime free Me too, I love commiting crime and not being a criminal. Internet spaceships crime \o/ EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 269	Posted - 2015.05.15 13:28:19 - [28] - Quote I came I looked Oh damn everyone else stole my ideas for responses to such a terrible idea. So in the end I am left with the simplest for of response. -1
Hakaari Inkuran State War Academy Caldari State 249	Posted - 2015.05.15 13:40:24 - [29] - Quote Russians are always engaging in massive rmt and its pretty much impossible to do anything about it.
ISD Ezwal ISD Community Communications Liaisons 4579	Posted - 2015.05.15 13:44:31 - [30] - Quote Crimson Grimslow wrote: Ok So first off im not sure if this is the right place to suggest this, There is no place on this entire forum that is 'the right place' to discuss RMT. Thread locked. The Rules: 22. Posting regarding RMT (Real Money Trading) is prohibited. Posts discussing, linking to, or advertising RMT, including but not limited to the sale of in game items, assets, currency, characters or game accounts for real life money are strictly prohibited. ISD Ezwal Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department

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