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Warzone
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Posted - 2003.11.09 22:32:00 -
[1]
I know there was a post from the devs which floated an idea of frigates being more difficult to target.
Lots of people said hooray!!! I'm afraid I'm in the other camp.
My dear old Megathron retails at 90+ million. Now if you want to work on the human wave idea and sink half a million into each frigate..that's not gonna be a bad frigate.
90 million divided by .5 = 180 little snapping turtles biting your heels.
I'l be honest. Even the way things are today. I'd put my money on the 180 small south american pooches, rather than the 1 Rottweiler.
If they put this in...I just wonder what my large bucket of frigate fodder will do with itself....and why I spent the money in the first place.
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Halo Jones
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Posted - 2003.11.09 22:40:00 -
[2]
heh
180 speedboats do not a battleship sink, well the might, but you'd need a right few pounds of semtex on baord
Oberon Incorporated. |
Mandor
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Posted - 2003.11.09 22:43:00 -
[3]
Halo
Even if a third of them got to within 7K, and orbited you, your ass would be mowed so smoothly, you could play pool on it.
That is assuming of course u could kill 120 of them as they approached.
I think u may have missed the point.
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Jorlin
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Posted - 2003.11.09 22:45:00 -
[4]
not too much to worry about...
they would still need 180 pilots in your scenario. and if they have 180 pilots, most of 'em would fly a BS anyway 
no police, no summons, no courts of law;
no proper procedure, no rules of war;
no mitigating circumstance;
no lawyers fees, no second chance! |
Znaei
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Posted - 2003.11.09 22:45:00 -
[5]
They didnt say it would be harder to target smaller ships. They said it would take longer to target them.
clagnuts> im drunk just come back from pirates night in spain , wtf i thought it was some eve guys getting together for a drink , turned out to be a feken real pirates show , doh |
Warzone
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Posted - 2003.11.09 22:46:00 -
[6]
Hmmm
So longer does not make it harder.
WOW
I want what you're on!!
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Jorlin
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Posted - 2003.11.09 22:48:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Jorlin on 09/11/2003 22:49:19
and not to forget...if you're attacked by 180 frigates, you won't even know you're dead till you see the next frame...which should show up about 10 minutes later.
no police, no summons, no courts of law;
no proper procedure, no rules of war;
no mitigating circumstance;
no lawyers fees, no second chance! |
Shakellia
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Posted - 2003.11.09 22:52:00 -
[8]
i think that warzone is talking about exepnditure and abilitie eve is all like rock paper and sissors.
i understand what he means in that even today a bs probly couldn't take out half that amount, let alone make it more difficult
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Znaei
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Posted - 2003.11.09 23:01:00 -
[9]
Obviously it is harder to targe a small object than a bigger one, to me its common sence.
A battleship does not have to fear a few frigates, just because it takes a few more seconds to target them. The damage that a frigate deals to a battleship is minimal, compared. We will probably never see a fleet of 180 frigates attacking a bs. I fly a bs and Im not concerned by this at all.
clagnuts> im drunk just come back from pirates night in spain , wtf i thought it was some eve guys getting together for a drink , turned out to be a feken real pirates show , doh |
Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.11.09 23:13:00 -
[10]
Yah, this is a non-issue. Given the number of pilots it would take to pull down a BS, having them in Frigates that take a few more seconds to target than normal ships would still be a preferable situation to having those same pilots in outfitted Moas, Blackbirds or Scorpions.
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
Indigo Seqi
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Posted - 2003.11.09 23:15:00 -
[11]
I'm all for this kind of stuff. I'd love to fly a tough as nails cruiser using smart flying to kill stuff, but for now I'm just sitting in a scorp because a BS is simply the only option if you want to have any chance of dealing damage and/or surviving a fight.
And really, elite frigates should be at least something like 750k, maybe even a mil.
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Karash Amerius
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Posted - 2003.11.09 23:25:00 -
[12]
Your dear old megathron shouldnt be unescorted.
Right now that is not needed...it should be in the future.
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Warzone
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Posted - 2003.11.09 23:25:00 -
[13]
Okay...lets look at things as they are today. We have big ships and we have small ships.
Why do you think that major powers invest in large platforms?
It's because they kick ass and take names...they do not bob about in the sea in "speed boats" to show the world, how mean and nasty thay are.
So where is the power projection, other than the big graphic of the battleship?
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.11.09 23:27:00 -
[14]
Considering the time, effort, and isk spent in purchasing implants/doing agent missions for implants, I prefer to have several million isks-worth of armour between me and the cold harsh void of space.
When I eventually get podded, I'll stay off the implants for a while so I can get back to using a cheap-o cruiser (Caracal/Blackbird) and start making suicide runs.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Warzone
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Posted - 2003.11.09 23:33:00 -
[15]
Okay Karash..lets follow your logic.
I have my 90 million ISK ship escorted...by lets say 4 frigates and two cruisers.
What would you say it's meaningful function and purpose was for this 90 million investment...I'm really curious?
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Jasmyn
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Posted - 2003.11.09 23:46:00 -
[16]
large smart bombs and torps?
Someone once told me they loved me. |
Warzone
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Posted - 2003.11.09 23:59:00 -
[17]
ROFL
You mean to shoot torps at some other turkey who wasted 90 mill...or try and crawl up to people and ask them to please, please , please wait till I smart bomb them.
Have you ever been in PVP?
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Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.11.10 00:01:00 -
[18]
And let's not forget that you need 180 people for these frigs, too.
You could as well why the industry buys a big machine where one can do the work of 10, while 10 simpler tools for 10 people would be cheaper.
It's because they have to pay those people, too.
Of cource, players in EVE do not need to be paid per se, but the time you have to spend in the game is the money equvalent there.
Just try to organize a big ops, it get's more and more difficult with more people involved.
free speech not allowed here |
Warzone
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Posted - 2003.11.10 00:02:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Warzone on 10/11/2003 00:03:23
Ana...pls read the post three up...from yours
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Skaz
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Posted - 2003.11.10 00:10:00 -
[20]
It's sad to see that some ppl think that a BB, the naval acronym for a Battleship, I dislike the BS one for....well obvious reasons 
Lets start over....
Well it is sad to see that some ppl think that a BB is, or should be, a do it all queen of space battles, the ultimate ship, the bringer of doom.......it isn't and shouldn't be....ever.
Although at the mo' it seems to be the most powerful ship and everybody apparently HAS to have one to succeed in EVE.
BB's have their weaknessess which is ironically their size.....although bristling with powerful weapons and heavy armor, the reality is that such mass and long range guns are practically useless at short range.
That's where the other ships come in, their purpose, like in real life, is to screen the BB so it can accomplish the mission, hence we have battle groups.
It's a fact that even now BB's are a tad too powerful and nobody wants to fly anything else.
I know this is a game and realism is a word that scares a lot of gamers.....but wouldn't be rather silly if we had everyone in BB's?
"No, I'm not alt.....even if I have been in Pator Tech School for 2 years..." |
ZzeusS
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Posted - 2003.11.10 00:12:00 -
[21]
Well, the very thing I first thing of, is get the frig with the highest number of missile slots (2? 3?) and load them with cheap launchers and couple torps. Warp in.. target.. release. With maybe 3 or 4 frigs doing this. May only knock out 2 or 3 missiles with defenders. Rinse, repeat.
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Slinky Redfoot
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Posted - 2003.11.10 00:15:00 -
[22]
Ever seen a frigate kill someone from 50km?
One class of ships is not supposed to replace another.Speed *should* make a difference and battleships shouldn't be able to outfly frigates/cruisers.Why do you think titans have half the cap of a battleship?Because they aren't supposed to wade into combat.
We'd have war fleets consisting mainly of cruisers, with frigates as fast support/electronic warfare, battleships as long range artillery and titans as dropships/carriers.
Lets have some tactical warfare, instaid of 'my guns are bigger then yours' all the time.
Got Banana? |
Warzone
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Posted - 2003.11.10 00:18:00 -
[23]
Okay Skaz, terminology aside...BB /BS..blah blah
You are attempting to describe a second world war warship. A modern day combat platform (crusier...and even the US BB's that were used in the first gulf war) can detect, engage and destroy multiple targets.
This issue of slugs being surrounded by hi-tech natives is a myth in modern day.....
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Slinky Redfoot
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Posted - 2003.11.10 00:19:00 -
[24]
 Quote:
Well, the very thing I first thing of, is get the frig with the highest number of missile slots (2? 3?) and load them with cheap launchers and couple torps. Warp in.. target.. release. With maybe 3 or 4 frigs doing this. May only knock out 2 or 3 missiles with defenders. Rinse, repeat.
4 slots on a Kestrel, and no frigate can hold torps.. 'cept for maybe a merlin or tristan, and both can only hold 1 H-50.
Got Banana? |
Warzone
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Posted - 2003.11.10 00:23:00 -
[25]
*hands Slinky an asbestos coat*
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Mandor
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Posted - 2003.11.10 00:26:00 -
[26]
*gives Slinky a road map (must use both hands) to find the mystical back side*
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Skaz
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Posted - 2003.11.10 00:30:00 -
[27]
Quote:
Okay Skaz, terminology aside...BB /BS..blah blah
You are attempting to describe a second world war warship. A modern day combat platform (cruiser...and even the US BB's that were used in the first gulf war) can detect, engage and destroy multiple targets.
This issue of slugs being surrounded by hi-tech natives is a myth in modern day.....
Ah yes, I'm describing WWII naval combat for a reason, because that's what I think that the devs were aiming for when creating the game.
Like a post here above, ONE ship can't be a ruler of the....erhm, stars?
P.S.
US warships can engage and destroy multiple targets, but that doesn't mean that multiple targets are easy to destroy, ever tried to coordinate a large effort with multiple cocurrent objectives....
But the fact is that even modern cruisers, since you want to use them, aren't alone out there, they have Destroyers as screening vessels against small assault crafts and for ASW. So our modern day destroyers would be frigs in EVE.
So your argument of a omnipodent modern warship falls on itself doesn't it?
Battlegroups existed for a reason in WWII, they exist today for the same reason AND they will exist in the future for still the same reason:
No ship can be good at everything.
"No, I'm not alt.....even if I have been in Pator Tech School for 2 years..." |
Warzone
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Posted - 2003.11.10 00:37:00 -
[28]
Quote:
Ah yes, I'm describing WWII naval combat for a reason, because that's what I think that the devs were aiming for when creating the game.
I don't seem to remember smart bombs, or missiles, dossing about....or multiple acquisition, ecm / eccm systems either?
I don't want to send this into Troll mode.
What is the funvtion and the investment of the 90 million + supposed to produce?
Please put all your Star Wars videos away...
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Brel
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Posted - 2003.11.10 00:42:00 -
[29]
Quote:
Okay Skaz, terminology aside...BB /BS..blah blah
You are attempting to describe a second world war warship. A modern day combat platform (crusier...and even the US BB's that were used in the first gulf war) can detect, engage and destroy multiple targets.
This issue of slugs being surrounded by hi-tech natives is a myth in modern day.....
A battleship on its own is a sitting duck even in modern warfare. Submarines for example could easily take out a battleship as some of of them are actually designed for that purpose. Carriers and battleships in modern warfare are accompanied by a whole host of other ships to support them and protect them from weapon systems/ships they have no or very little defense against. The gulf war is a terrible example as the enemy had no navy to speak of except for a small collection of shoreline patrol boats.
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Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.11.10 00:45:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Ana Khouri on 10/11/2003 00:55:45
Er.. complete edit. NM, misunderstood you again. I think it's slowly time for bed.
Again, the trouble will be getting the people together. Sure, big corps can have lots, but not really more like 20-30 on one place.
They could launch missles - but missles are actually quite impractical there, because they still have the tendancy to kill each other. A few defenders could kill 200 cruises in one boom.
This leaves turrets. With 180 frigs against 1 BS the frigs would win, no questions asked. But that is no realistic szenario, a more realistic would be 5 BS against 50 frigs. And even those 50 frigs are a quite high number IMO). Now, if those BS have a MWD those 50 frigs have already lost, they cannot hope to get close enough to a BS using one to attack it. And even if not, it's unlikely that they will be able to kill more than one, even if they are lucky. Of cource 1 BS will have cost more than those 50 frigs, but you have to take the time and the people into account - if those 5 people would have been mining in the time they made this ops they would have made more than 100mil I think.
And let's not forget insurance.
free speech not allowed here |
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