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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
276
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Posted - 2015.05.23 15:02:49 -
[121] - Quote
+1 for hard nerf to meta 4 and stealth increase to drawbacks for these mods. Should hurt cruisers for oversizing a little more.
Question: why are the meta mods still better than t1 in MULTIPLE aspects? I thought the concept of new meta 1 is better than t1 in only ONE aspect. |
HeXxploiT
Big Diggers Get Off My Lawn
148
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Posted - 2015.05.23 23:25:03 -
[122] - Quote
T1 modules are the most basic & common module aside from noob mods. Not sure why a handful of people still don't get this. This is why T1 can be built from bpo's. Think of the rest as specialized.
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Count Szadek
Veil Of Whatever The Angry Fellows
8
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Posted - 2015.05.24 00:35:38 -
[123] - Quote
I would really like to see an XL Shield Extender for battleship usage. |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2423
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Posted - 2015.05.24 00:46:24 -
[124] - Quote
Were the small shield extenders getting that big buff in HP in the original proposal or did I miss it in the change? |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
734
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Posted - 2015.05.24 01:27:10 -
[125] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Were the small shield extenders getting that big buff in HP in the original proposal or did I miss it in the change? it was in the original OP, for them removing micros.
Talking more,
Flying crazier,
And drinking more
Making battleships worth the warp
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Valterra Craven
548
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Posted - 2015.05.24 02:14:40 -
[126] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:
The same thing I said earlier about m4 vs t2 being out of whack due to the game having gotten bigger in some ways and incentives shifting significantly apply to this for certain. I think it is because LP has gotten cheaper, but tags have dried up and much more people are able to rat faster and this has flooded the market with the pirate faction items which drop medium frequently, and thus the supply and costs are out of whack from when the modules were concieved and released, making the costs make little sense. Then again, I know many people willing to pay extra for certain faction modules, even for ones which are worse in every way, because of which faction they like or RP as.
And you'd be wrong, plain and simple. Do some market research on the prices of goods as far back as the eve market websites will allow. Prices have stayed remarkably close to stabilized prices from 10 years ago. Sisters Probes are a prime example of this. Prices really only ever change when CCP has made critically bad balancing decisions or messed with entire systems, like mineral rebalances etc. |
Onslaughtor
Occult National Security Phoenix Naval Systems
143
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Posted - 2015.05.24 04:02:58 -
[127] - Quote
HeXxploiT wrote:T1 modules are the most basic & common module aside from noob mods. Not sure why a handful of people still don't get this. This is why T1 can be built from bpo's. Think of the rest as specialized.
Right now T1 is specialized in being bad. Really. At this point if you're not a day one player, and even if you are, most won't fit a T1 because they are so much worse. For the redemption roams NPSI community new player roams we use almost all meta module because they are cheaper and better in almost every single conceivable way.
In this listing so far every single t1 module has about 20% less of the primary stat than the its closest meta module. Combined that with the worst case fitting and other penalties and there is zero reason to fit it unless you have literally nothing else. Might as well just make t1 officially called civilian gear if you want to leave them like that.
And why is basic and common a bad thing? Why shouldn't the modules you build in your station at home not be competitive in the game? |
To mare
Advanced Technology
405
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Posted - 2015.05.24 10:07:35 -
[128] - Quote
Count Szadek wrote:I would really like to see an XL Shield Extender for battleship usage. 1- no because armor and shield need some diversity 2- no because people will fit them to cruisers
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Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1062
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Posted - 2015.05.24 11:25:34 -
[129] - Quote
To mare wrote:Count Szadek wrote:I would really like to see an XL Shield Extender for battleship usage. 1- no because armor and shield need some diversity 2- no because people will fit them to cruisers
What do you mean with diversity? Neither Armor nor Shields got access to BS-sized buffer mods. The 1600 plate is a cruisersized mod, or Battlecruiser at max. But 500PG is not *allocating relevant fitting ressources* for any battleship.
Then in Cruisers Online, you can triple your armor buffer with an appropriately sized buffer mod (1600, cause they're so easy to fit you might think they belong there). A Rattlesnake can raise it's buffer by ~20% for each LSE it fits.
And in particular, if fittings weren't an issue, we'd see more officer point orthrus, I'm sure. But heck, a cruiser just doesn't have the 2-4k PG a BS plate would potentially require.
Onslaughtor wrote:Right now T1 is specialized in being bad. Really. At this point if you're not a day one player, and even if you are, most won't fit a T1 because they are so much worse. For the redemption roams NPSI community new player roams we use almost all meta module because they are cheaper and better in almost every single conceivable way.
There is truth in there :D I'd too love to see the gap from plain T1 to T2 being reduced or otherwise make T1 more meaningful. Currently it's the stuff you got in your hangar to build it into T2 things, it would however be nice if T1 could incorporate some sort of appeal to not totally disqualify it. This could be as simple as labeling the tech level *pragmatic, non-sophisticated and robust* and give it much resilence to overheating. (This would allow newbros with Thermo I to effectively use their T1 point overheated for longer times to pretend they'd be using the T2 one) |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
276
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Posted - 2015.05.24 12:29:55 -
[130] - Quote
HeXxploiT wrote:T1 modules are the most basic & common module aside from noob mods. Not sure why a handful of people still don't get this. This is why T1 can be built from bpo's. Think of the rest as specialized.
They are supposed to be better than T1 in only ONE stat. |
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
647
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Posted - 2015.05.24 13:12:56 -
[131] - Quote
HeXxploiT wrote:T1 modules are the most basic & common module aside from noob mods. Not sure why a handful of people still don't get this. This is why T1 can be built from bpo's. Think of the rest as specialized.
they want to build off the t1's for cheap fun.
Or they like simple T1 then t2. This change needs a spreadsheet to work out the details. this imo was the start of this whole metacide thing. Looking up stuff and thinking gave headaches lol.
Now this change tbh...has me liking metacide more (will not lie about or hide the fact I was not in we don't need this metacide crowd). I am liking faction mods actually mean something now. For SE for example I always felt bad for the thukker lp collectors. Now that SE is looking nice. Or at least marketable over RF whose lp easier to obtain with better agent distribution. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
647
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Posted - 2015.05.24 13:18:38 -
[132] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:HeXxploiT wrote:T1 modules are the most basic & common module aside from noob mods. Not sure why a handful of people still don't get this. This is why T1 can be built from bpo's. Think of the rest as specialized.
They are supposed to be better than T1 in only ONE stat.
Get used to this....ccp did this with the easy low hanging fruit items (ie. not to common and niche items so less polarization in the player base) early where there was 1 one stat to make this easy to do. CCP with this is starting to hit the more complicated mods where this won't be applicable so readily. If applicable at all.
My sympathies go out to the shield booster and armor rep team. What I consider a defining stat for them to work from will not be the same as lots of others players. Other players whose choice will vary from even more other players as well. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2854
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Posted - 2015.05.24 13:40:18 -
[133] - Quote
I don't like that meta eclipses T1, but if meta blueprints start to drop that require the base T1 module rather than assembled modules, I could support the power increase.
Roleplaying Trinkets for Explorers and Collectors
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GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
432
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Posted - 2015.05.24 15:18:17 -
[134] - Quote
IM/FN 800mm/1600mm Plate & RF LSE/MSE real costs for anyone interested: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5769020#post5769020
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:The stats sheets have been updated with some changes we will make in light of feedback. Change Sheets - Updated 22-05-15Armor Plates Module TiericideShield Extender Module TiericideIn summary, on reflection the Tech II armor plates have had their HP values maintained as at current TQ numbers; the Storyline plates have been adjusted as a group to have low fitting requirements but with less HP bonus than in the original proposed changes.
THANK YOU!
'Barbican' Impel not gone after all.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+
Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2212
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Posted - 2015.05.25 01:21:19 -
[135] - Quote
HeXxploiT wrote:T1 modules are the most basic & common module aside from noob mods. Not sure why a handful of people still don't get this. This is why T1 can be built from bpo's. Think of the rest as specialized.
An example I posted in another thread of 'mystery item x' T1, 5% 5% 5% 5% Meta 7% 7% 4% 4% T2 7% 7% 7% 7%
T2 is still clearly better than T1, but meta is as good as T2 in certain aspects but worse than T1 in other aspects, forcing you to make a trade off with Meta, and making a case where you would use T1 over Meta when you are concerned with overall performance of a single module. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
5120
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Posted - 2015.05.25 02:40:57 -
[136] - Quote
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:The stats sheets have been updated with some changes we will make in light of feedback. Change Sheets - Updated 22-05-15Armor Plates Module TiericideShield Extender Module TiericideIn summary, on reflection the Tech II armor plates have had their HP values maintained as at current TQ numbers; the Storyline plates have been adjusted as a group to have low fitting requirements but with less HP bonus than in the original proposed changes; the Syndicate faction plates have had a significant powergrid requirement cut in order to further differentiate them and hopefully make them an attractive option for some uses. Minor adjustment to Storyline shield extenders to emphasize the lower fitting aspect of the modules is also included. Hopefully this addresses the bulk of the concerns. We've listened to all the feedback but don't necessarily agree with all of it. I want to also note that these changes are taking place as part of the module tiericide effort and don't represent the last word in balance of these module groups.
Looked solely at the 1600mm plates for the present, so my feedback is restricted to them. I'm not familiar enough with shields to have a useful opinion on those changes.
Firstly there is no reason to ever consider fitting a Meta 0 plate to a ship; meta 1 options are generally better in every stat AND are cheaper. This appears to be a consistent design decision you're making with every part of Tiericide, and I don't agree with it. It renders the meta 0 item useless except as a precursor to producing the T2 version.
It's possible for post-Tiericide Meta 1 plates to be generally superior to Meta 0 without being strictly better in every stat.
Secondly, the faction plates all have clear things that distinguish them from the other meta 8 options, and are all solid. I could see myself considering all three on a fit. One will undoubtedly become 'the best overall' but all will remain viable options. Well done.
However, this poses the question - when deadspace plates are introduced (which I assume they will be in the future), what are your plans for them?
I think you should add to the table preliminary stats for deadspace plates, even if you have no intention of adding them to this release.
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
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Perihelion Olenard
208
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Posted - 2015.05.25 07:17:57 -
[137] - Quote
It is nice that people who want to use something better than tech 2 plates now have options for getting more EHP. |
Eli Porter
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
11
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Posted - 2015.05.25 07:30:41 -
[138] - Quote
What's the point in lowering PG cost while increasing CPU cost at about the same level for T2 plates? It doesn't seem to serve any purpose outside of annoying EFT warriors. |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
317
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Posted - 2015.05.25 07:42:24 -
[139] - Quote
Stratios got massively buffed by the plate changes. Stratios has 1150 PG, which currently lets you fit two 1600mm plates and a MWD, but nothing else, so 2x 1600mm plate fits aren't viable unless you want to use Genolutions, storyline MWD, or storyline 1600mm plates, all of which are obscenely expensive.
After these changes, you can just fit two Syndicate plates which actually have more HP than T2 plates do now, and won't be that expensive. (27000 LP and no tags) The result is a ship that can fit an expanded probe launcher and a cloak and still do 500-600 DPS of whatever damage type it wants alongside having ~70,000 EHP. Use a reactive armor hardener when hunting ratters (they do the same damage type as the rats) and your EHP will be much higher. Even though you'll be relatively slow when double plated, it's still rather difficult to catch a ship with a covops cloak and a MWD. |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
2133
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Posted - 2015.05.25 07:53:43 -
[140] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:Stratios got massively buffed by the plate changes. Stratios has 1150 PG, which currently lets you fit two 1600mm plates and a MWD, but nothing else, so 2x 1600mm plate fits aren't viable unless you want to use Genolutions, storyline MWD, or storyline 1600mm plates, all of which are obscenely expensive.
After these changes, you can just fit two Syndicate plates which actually have more HP than T2 plates do now, and won't be that expensive. (27000 LP and no tags) The result is a ship that can fit an expanded probe launcher and a cloak and still do 500-600 DPS of whatever damage type it wants alongside having ~70,000 EHP. Use a reactive armor hardener when hunting ratters (they do the same damage type as the rats) and your EHP will be much higher. Even though you'll be relatively slow when double plated, it's still rather difficult to catch a ship with a covops cloak and a MWD. Sounds reasonable to me.
I like the Stratios :)
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
991
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Posted - 2015.05.25 09:09:10 -
[141] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:Stratios got massively buffed by the plate changes. Stratios has 1150 PG, which currently lets you fit two 1600mm plates and a MWD, but nothing else, so 2x 1600mm plate fits aren't viable unless you want to use Genolutions, storyline MWD, or storyline 1600mm plates, all of which are obscenely expensive.
After these changes, you can just fit two Syndicate plates which actually have more HP than T2 plates do now, and won't be that expensive. (27000 LP and no tags) The result is a ship that can fit an expanded probe launcher and a cloak and still do 500-600 DPS of whatever damage type it wants alongside having ~70,000 EHP. Use a reactive armor hardener when hunting ratters (they do the same damage type as the rats) and your EHP will be much higher. Even though you'll be relatively slow when double plated, it's still rather difficult to catch a ship with a covops cloak and a MWD.
That is one ship I have thought about flying for a long while now. I'll have to give it a shot when I finish this deployment. It sounds as though it will suit a certain patient play style of which I am very fond.
The Greatest Ship Ever. Credit to Shahfluffers.
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Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
318
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Posted - 2015.05.25 10:07:50 -
[142] - Quote
Syndicate 1600mm Steel Plates Syndicate 1600mm Steel Plates Internal Force Field Array I Imperial Navy Adaptive Nano Plating Imperial Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I Caldari Navy Warp Scrambler 'Langour' Drive Disruptor I 'Langour' Drive Disruptor I
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet EMP S 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet EMP S 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet EMP S Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher,Core Scanner Probe I
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I Medium Trimark Armor Pump II Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
This is a fit with no implants at all. Yes those are small guns and that's an empty mid slot. You're at 535/535 CPU exactly, there's nothing that fits there. If you use a 2% CPU implant, you can use a sensor booster and fleeting webs. A 4% CPU implant will let you use a target painter and fleeting webs. |
Mike theBuilder
Lone Wolf Union Yulai Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.05.25 10:52:46 -
[143] - Quote
CCP Delegate Zero wrote: In terms of 'Named' modules, the 'Reinforced Nanofiber Plates' range will merge into the 'Crystalline Carbonide Restrained Plates'. Likewise, the 'Reinforced Titanium Plates' will merge into the 'Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates'.
With shield extenders this process is mirrored by the merger of 'Subordinate Screen Stabilizers' into 'F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extenders', and the merger of 'Supplemental Barrier Emitters' into 'Azeotropic Restrained Shield Extenders'.
When your saying "merge", are we to expect that say the Nanofiber Plates will become what is currently the Meta 3 Module (Crystaline Carbonide Plate), and this combined item gets its name changed, stats adjusted and becomes a Meta 1 Item (it keeps its old TypeID and so on), or those two old modules combined become a new module that will have a new ID, and the balanced stats. Previous rounds with module tiericide, we had every item listed and what they would become, but when you write it this way its not really clear what the exact database entry will change to.
This actually have a large effect on market. Because on patch day, if its a new typeID, no items will be listed on any market and instead be moved+combined in hangars all across the universe. It will create a large vacuum on item values when there isn't any way of listing what the previous values used to be before the patch. Obviously people will adapt quick in market hubs, but you can sort of manipulate the market very easy in lower activity regions. |
Vlad Vladimir Vladinovsky
Black Iron Foundries Phoebe Freeport Republic
30
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Posted - 2015.05.26 02:32:33 -
[144] - Quote
I don't like this 1600mm plate nerf at all, let alone any of the nerfs, you increase the CPU usage when there wasn't a CPU problem before, you reduce the PG usage of the plates when there wasn't a PG issue before.
You reduce the effective tank and give armor little to go by. The agility and speed penalties are far worse than sig radius penalties on shield extenders purely because a shield ship retains all their speed and agility and by default can simply out kite a sig radius penalty and then it doesn't matter
Yea armor has its own armor layering but the penalty doesn't go away significantly and the agility and speed problems are still there. CCP you seem to heavily favor this kite meta which largely excludes armor at all variants. I've been doing 1v1 fights in FW for a very long time and I see fewer and fewer ships running plates and instead going with these AAR fits because AAR's have zero agility and speed penalty. I've fought merlins that use their lows to tank mods and fill their mids with utilities because they can just gimp a fit and it works. Meanwhile ships like the punisher are in tan objectively WORSE situation now because they didn't get a bonus like shield ships did. Things like the punisher are slow and useless largely because they get scram kited by other brawlers. I totally look forward to liquidating my plate armor fits and never running mallers for anything useful ever again because you've obviously shown a huge bias towards shields.
If shield extenders get buffs like this then why don't armor? you punished T2 plates with no significant benefit, the PG was never a problem but you somehow reduce PG and create CPU issues for no reason what so ever.
an MSE is now nearly on part with a 400mm plate but I guarantee you I'd rather take an MSE because with that MSE I get to keep all of my agility and speed that negates the sig penalty, but with a 400mm plate I'm slow and sluggish with no way to over come it. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
13133
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Posted - 2015.05.26 03:10:25 -
[145] - Quote
Vlad has a good point there. Speed is by far the most valuable, meaningful stat, and Armor is penalized in that category too severely.
The meta is already too kitey, this will make it worse.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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CCP Delegate Zero
C C P C C P Alliance
227
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Posted - 2015.05.26 13:16:28 -
[146] - Quote
Mike theBuilder wrote: When your saying "merge", are we to expect that say the Nanofiber Plates will become what is currently the Meta 3 Module (Crystaline Carbonide Plate), and this combined item gets its name changed, stats adjusted and becomes a Meta 1 Item (it keeps its old TypeID and so on), or those two old modules combined become a new module that will have a new ID, and the balanced stats.
The former case - modules variants that are removed will be turned into remaining variants.
CCP Delegate Zero | Game Designer | @CCPDelegateZero
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1091
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Posted - 2015.05.26 13:57:51 -
[147] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Vlad has a good point there. Speed is by far the most valuable, meaningful stat, and Armor is penalized in that category too severely.
The meta is already too kitey, this will make it worse.
rigs give you most of the penalties, not plates/extenders |
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Dark Nexxus S I L E N T.
151
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Posted - 2015.05.26 14:24:04 -
[148] - Quote
doesnt look to bad, personally i would switch the rolled and crystaline plates and also the f-s9 and the azeo as they would then hold the same role as the current one does |
Casivek Andrard
Bloody Cross Syndicate Violent Declaration
7
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Posted - 2015.05.26 14:55:21 -
[149] - Quote
Vlad Vladimir Vladinovsky wrote:I don't like this 1600mm plate nerf at all, let alone any of the nerfs, you increase the CPU usage when there wasn't a CPU problem before, you reduce the PG usage of the plates when there wasn't a PG issue before.
You reduce the effective tank and give armor little to go by. The agility and speed penalties are far worse than sig radius penalties on shield extenders purely because a shield ship retains all their speed and agility and by default can simply out kite a sig radius penalty and then it doesn't matter
Yea armor has its own armor layering but the penalty doesn't go away significantly and the agility and speed problems are still there. CCP you seem to heavily favor this kite meta which largely excludes armor at all variants. I've been doing 1v1 fights in FW for a very long time and I see fewer and fewer ships running plates and instead going with these AAR fits because AAR's have zero agility and speed penalty. I've fought merlins that use their lows to tank mods and fill their mids with utilities because they can just gimp a fit and it works. Meanwhile ships like the punisher are in tan objectively WORSE situation now because they didn't get a bonus like shield ships did. Things like the punisher are slow and useless largely because they get scram kited by other brawlers. I totally look forward to liquidating my plate armor fits and never running mallers for anything useful ever again because you've obviously shown a huge bias towards shields.
If shield extenders get buffs like this then why don't armor? you punished T2 plates with no significant benefit, the PG was never a problem but you somehow reduce PG and create CPU issues for no reason what so ever.
an MSE is now nearly on part with a 400mm plate but I guarantee you I'd rather take an MSE because with that MSE I get to keep all of my agility and speed that negates the sig penalty, but with a 400mm plate I'm slow and sluggish with no way to over come it.
Welcome to eve online where ccp says **** everyone that isn't a null bear 99% of the time |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
280
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Posted - 2015.05.26 15:02:31 -
[150] - Quote
Vlad Vladimir Vladinovsky wrote:I don't like this 1600mm plate nerf at all, let alone any of the nerfs, you increase the CPU usage when there wasn't a CPU problem before, you reduce the PG usage of the plates when there wasn't a PG issue before.
You reduce the effective tank and give armor little to go by. The agility and speed penalties are far worse than sig radius penalties on shield extenders purely because a shield ship retains all their speed and agility and by default can simply out kite a sig radius penalty and then it doesn't matter
Yea armor has its own armor layering but the penalty doesn't go away significantly and the agility and speed problems are still there. CCP you seem to heavily favor this kite meta which largely excludes armor at all variants. I've been doing 1v1 fights in FW for a very long time and I see fewer and fewer ships running plates and instead going with these AAR fits because AAR's have zero agility and speed penalty. I've fought merlins that use their lows to tank mods and fill their mids with utilities because they can just gimp a fit and it works. Meanwhile ships like the punisher are in tan objectively WORSE situation now because they didn't get a bonus like shield ships did. Things like the punisher are slow and useless largely because they get scram kited by other brawlers. I totally look forward to liquidating my plate armor fits and never running mallers for anything useful ever again because you've obviously shown a huge bias towards shields.
If shield extenders get buffs like this then why don't armor? you punished T2 plates with no significant benefit, the PG was never a problem but you somehow reduce PG and create CPU issues for no reason what so ever.
an MSE is now nearly on part with a 400mm plate but I guarantee you I'd rather take an MSE because with that MSE I get to keep all of my agility and speed that negates the sig penalty, but with a 400mm plate I'm slow and sluggish with no way to over come it. If you are areguing extenders need a nerf i agree. Non t2 plates needed a nerf though. |
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