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Garrett Howe
Spectres
7
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 23:43:48 -
[1] - Quote
With capitals now a bit irrelevant for grinding sov, what would you change about them to make them worth the cost and train time? |

joecuster
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
55
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 23:45:52 -
[2] - Quote
Nothing, this post is bad and you should feel bad |

Garrett Howe
Spectres
7
|
Posted - 2015.05.22 23:48:17 -
[3] - Quote
joecuster wrote:Nothing, this post is bad and you should feel bad It's funny, because I've heard a lot of people say capitals are useless now, so I'm not sure what I'm wrong about. The devs like to hear suggestions from players, so who's to say someone has an idea that the devs might find interesting (like the change to the Jackdaw the other day). |

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2206
|
Posted - 2015.05.23 00:17:33 -
[4] - Quote
Capitals aren't useless because they can still be used to escalate the fleet fights. They just aren't needed for structure bashing, which actually frees them up more for fleet fighting since they aren't burnt out from weeks of structure bashing. |

Panty Stocking
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.05.23 00:28:30 -
[5] - Quote
blockade devices. a capital only "beam" that limits the number/time people may jump through gates, countered by a different module on the other side, putting capital gatecamps on both sides of a gate just to let reasonable sized gangs through. must be used in siege or triage mode, or a similar mode to make the ships immobile but ready for a slugmatch.
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Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort DARKNESS.
65
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Posted - 2015.05.23 00:43:39 -
[6] - Quote
Carriers: -Nothing
Dreads: -Massive base tracking/exp velocity bonus to buff capital weapon systems -Massive penalty to tracking/exp velocity while in siege to counter balance. -Return of the drone bay, treated like Triage and cannot control while in siege
Titans: -Read above for change to capital weapon rework -Significantly reduce damage of DD, allow it to target and chain between sub capitals -Attach massive boost to boosting capabilities
Supers: -Larger drone bay to carry multiple squadrons of fighters -Lose the 200% damage bonus -Lose EWAR immunity ---Replaced with base +10 warp core strength -Super fighters can be fit with a single utility mid or high slot module, and up to 3 tank modules ---Web/Neut/ECM/Damp/Scram(only prevents MWD/MJD) -Super fighters can be loaded with proper weapon/rep and munitions ---T1, T2, and faction variants based on weapon system equip ---Remote Rep disables weapon systems.
Dreads: -Massive base tracking/exp velocity bonus to buff capital weapon systems -Massive penalty to tracking/exp velocity while in siege to counter balance.
Carriers: -Nothing
But of course none of this will ever happen because CCP is happy with cruisers online and there are far too many whiny bitches out there who want to see those of us to spent the time on money getting into these behemoths sit and watch our investments go to waste. They aren't even willing to roll out new T2 BS to try and close the power gap between sub capitals and capitals which would finally allow for buffs like the ones I mentioned to be implemented without seeming overpowered. |

Lugh Crow-Slave
1096
|
Posted - 2015.05.23 03:14:24 -
[7] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Capitals aren't useless because they can still be used to escalate the fleet fights. They just aren't needed for structure bashing, which actually frees them up more for fleet fighting since they aren't burnt out from weeks of structure bashing.
this ^
we have used caps in LS for years and very little of that time was used to grind a POS
Carriers are great at reping sub caps and dreads are the carriers counter (assuming you have the nuet support from subcaps)
capitals do not need to change it is the suppers that are losing a big part of their use
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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Garrett Howe
Spectres
7
|
Posted - 2015.05.23 03:16:39 -
[8] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Capitals aren't useless because they can still be used to escalate the fleet fights. They just aren't needed for structure bashing, which actually frees them up more for fleet fighting since they aren't burnt out from weeks of structure bashing. this ^ we have used caps in LS for years and very little of that time was used to grind a POS Carriers are great at reping sub caps and dreads are the carriers counter (assuming you have the nuet support from subcaps) capitals do not need to change it is the suppers that are losing a big part of their use I've always considered supercapitals as capitals, but I suppose they are different. What needs to change about supers then? |

Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2015.05.23 03:24:36 -
[9] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Capitals aren't useless because they can still be used to escalate the fleet fights. They just aren't needed for structure bashing, which actually frees them up more for fleet fighting since they aren't burnt out from weeks of structure bashing. this ^ we have used caps in LS for years and very little of that time was used to grind a POS Carriers are great at reping sub caps and dreads are the carriers counter (assuming you have the nuet support from subcaps) capitals do not need to change it is the suppers that are losing a big part of their use
SC and Titans are not a good counter to Dreads and Carriers?
Dont compare 100 Dreads to a single Titan or SC, compare close to equal numbers. Dropping 10x Dreads on a few Titans or SC does not mean its badly balanced, but when you need a very clear number advantage to even consider dropping them we can assume the capital power chain goes like this: Carrier < Dreadnought < SC/Titan < Dreadnought blob < SC/Titan blob |

Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
296
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Posted - 2015.05.23 12:19:16 -
[10] - Quote
This post contains no idea nor feature... |

Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
295
|
Posted - 2015.05.23 15:25:08 -
[11] - Quote
Celthric Kanerian wrote:This post contains no idea nor feature... True, but it does open another place for those vested in these ships to discuss how to make better use of them in the current game. So if you want to be the wet blanket at the party I suggest you report this as redundant, or better yet just refrain from posting if you have no ideas or counters to add to the debate.
I have minimal cap ship experiences but those players I know that have them are getting far more use out of them now then they did in the past. With jump fatigue they have less worry about being dropped on by an anti capital mob so they are more willing to un-dock them and use them for something other than large fleet fights. So maybe there is a degree of what you want to do with your cap that is a part of this as well. |

Lugh Crow-Slave
1100
|
Posted - 2015.05.24 11:11:52 -
[12] - Quote
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
SC and Titans are not a good counter to Dreads and Carriers?
Dont compare 100 Dreads to a single Titan or SC, compare close to equal numbers. Dropping 10x Dreads on a few Titans or SC does not mean its badly balanced, but when you need a very clear number advantage to even consider dropping them we can assume the capital power chain goes like this: Carrier < Dreadnought < SC/Titan < Dreadnought blob < SC/Titan blob
true but for most of us who can or are in a group who can afford SC/Titans we generally have enough people to go the wrought of more ships rather than bigger ships.
meaning in most cases you only drop a supper carrier when you feel relatively safe and a titan is only used on field if you hit the wrong button or you know you are in a good spot.
however i don't feel to much needs to change with the supper carrier as it does still fulfill the role of anti capital very well
and you could argue that titans are only meant to be used for very large battles in an anti cap/supper cap role
however since ccp wants to push people away from large battles and spread them out into many smaller ones a tittan loses a lot of its uses since the DD sticks it in place making it in-ideal for a fight with the few capitals needed to support a small fleet
Supper carriers are a good counter to dreads/carriers but titans only counter blobs of such things and that is what CCP seems to be trying to limit
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
548
|
Posted - 2015.05.27 06:22:11 -
[13] - Quote
Garrett Howe wrote:joecuster wrote:Nothing, this post is bad and you should feel bad It's funny, because I've heard a lot of people say capitals are useless now, so I'm not sure what I'm wrong about. The devs like to hear suggestions from players, so who's to say someone has an idea that the devs might find interesting (like the change to the Jackdaw the other day).
What exactly is useless about a ship if the enemy can't defeat it?
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2015.05.27 07:58:29 -
[14] - Quote
If you can field a large enough dreadnough fleet do that, fielding a large enough titan/sc fleet takes alot less people + they can get repaired by other ships (triage carrier out of range from enemy dread fleet will do wonders for SC/Titan survivability)
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15977
|
Posted - 2015.05.27 08:33:10 -
[15] - Quote
Garrett Howe wrote:joecuster wrote:Nothing, this post is bad and you should feel bad It's funny, because I've heard a lot of people say capitals are useless now, so I'm not sure what I'm wrong about. The devs like to hear suggestions from players, so who's to say someone has an idea that the devs might find interesting (like the change to the Jackdaw the other day).
I will be happy to take any and all capitals and give them a good home.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1109
|
Posted - 2015.05.27 08:44:56 -
[16] - Quote
Haatakan Reppola wrote:If you can field a large enough dreadnough fleet do that, fielding a large enough titan/sc fleet takes alot less people + they can get repaired by other ships (triage carrier out of range from enemy dread fleet will do wonders for SC/Titan survivability)
i didn't say that they were becoming useless or that they had no more use in a fleet
the problem comes in the type of fights that CCP is trying to build the game to force (smaller more spread out) that make it harder for them to see use as well as removing a large part of what they are used for (structure grinding)
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2215
|
Posted - 2015.05.27 11:02:42 -
[17] - Quote
You mean like the recent S2N super losses that came from an escalating fleet fight that went all the way up to titans being dropped? That was a 'smaller' spread out fight that moved across multiple systems with capitals & supers both using gates and jump engines for mobility. Seems to me plenty of cap use will still occur as long as the sub cap meta allows escalation to BS's, since then caps naturally play in the chain of escalation. |

Discomanco
We pooped on your lawn Resonance.
131
|
Posted - 2015.05.27 13:26:10 -
[18] - Quote
By posting in the long thread already that's 12 pages behind https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=413657&find=unread |

James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
776
|
Posted - 2015.05.27 16:58:26 -
[19] - Quote
With creative fits to leverage their massive EHP, high damage and local tank potential and Ewar immunity to hold entosis grids against all comers, making it very hard to kill them off grid, and impossible to jam them out.
Talking more,
Flying crazier,
And drinking more
Making battleships worth the warp
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1050
|
Posted - 2015.05.27 17:39:57 -
[20] - Quote
Stop super production. Let them fade away with grace.
For every capital on grid above 30 - one of them randomly explodes every 2 minutes until there are 30 or less on grid.
You can scoff all you want, but getting beyond the personal level and looking at the big picture - both ideas are pure awsomeness.
Every super that dies never to be replaced would be one less dude whining on the forums about the flying coffing he willingly chose to hop into. The please let me dock mantra of a 100 angsty 5yr olds would diminish to silence.
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
778
|
Posted - 2015.05.27 17:54:54 -
[21] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Stop super production. Let them fade away with grace.
For every capital on grid above 30 - one of them randomly explodes every 2 minutes until there are 30 or less on grid.
You can scoff all you want, but getting beyond the personal level and looking at the big picture - both ideas are pure awsomeness.
Every super that dies never to be replaced would be one less dude whining on the forums about the flying coffing he willingly chose to hop into. The please let me dock mantra of a 100 angsty 5yr olds would diminish to silence.
I almost like this. I would prefer to re-escalate their cost to hilariously insane, such as a 250x increase in part costs for supers and 500x for titans. This doesn't pull up the ladder entirely, but it does make them massively more difficult to replace. Oh, and set their reprocessing rate to 0, so that if someone does figure out how to reprocess them, the minerals are gone, and so is the super.
Talking more,
Flying crazier,
And drinking more
Making battleships worth the warp
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Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
2960
|
Posted - 2015.05.27 18:22:16 -
[22] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Stop super production. Let them fade away with grace.
For every capital on grid above 30 - one of them randomly explodes every 2 minutes until there are 30 or less on grid.
You can scoff all you want, but getting beyond the personal level and looking at the big picture - both ideas are pure awsomeness.
Every super that dies never to be replaced would be one less dude whining on the forums about the flying coffing he willingly chose to hop into. The please let me dock mantra of a 100 angsty 5yr olds would diminish to silence.
I'd allow caps and supers to be built anywhere.
I'd allow them to use hi-sec gates.
I'd uncouple the need to use a jumpdrive with a cyno and allow caps to jump themselves.
I'd toy with the idea of deleting jump fatigue.
I'd add the following 2 role bonus to each sub cap: 1) "This ship does reduced damage to capital class vessels" 2) "This ship cannot target super capital vessels"
I'd then expand the capital class hull range so it resembles the sub cap range. minimum 3 t1 hulls per ship type, t2 versions and flavors, tech 3 capitals and modular caps.
I'd give new dreadnaught hulls mid slot based anti-sub cap weapons that are great against fast moving, high transversal sub caps in groups.
I'd give new carrier hulls turrets / missile slots to give them more teeth against caps and supers.
I'd give capital ships capital e-war that could effect supers (thus forcing sub caps to keep capitals around in a fight to counter supers, even if fozzysov). I'd prevent sub capital e-war from doing anything to a super (this includes a HIC, which I'd replace with a capital HIC).
I'd reintroduce skynet. No game data needed to justify fixing crap game re-design.
I'd also bring back the AoE doomsday as a T2 module, with a reduced range / AoE. Because you know, each blob of ishtars blapped every few seconds, will fix our Tidi forum tear woes.
Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1109
|
Posted - 2015.05.27 20:32:39 -
[23] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:You mean like the recent S2N super losses that came from an escalating fleet fight that went all the way up to titans being dropped? That was a 'smaller' spread out fight that moved across multiple systems with capitals & supers both using gates and jump engines for mobility. Seems to me plenty of cap use will still occur as long as the sub cap meta allows escalation to BS's, since then caps naturally play in the chain of escalation.
i did say that ccp are trying to force didn't I?
not with the mechanics currently in place...
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1109
|
Posted - 2015.05.27 20:36:24 -
[24] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:
I'd allow caps and supers to be built anywhere.
I'd allow them to use hi-sec gates.
I'd give all caps t2 modules, guns and drones. Maybe some new faction stuff too.
Capital incursions.
I'd uncouple the need to use a jumpdrive with a cyno and allow caps to jump themselves.
I'd toy with the idea of deleting jump fatigue.
I'd add the following 2 role bonus to each sub cap: 1) "This ship does reduced damage to capital class vessels" 2) "This ship cannot target super capital vessels"
I'd then expand the capital class hull range so it resembles the sub cap range. minimum 3 t1 hulls per ship type, t2 versions and flavors, tech 3 capitals and modular caps.
I'd give new dreadnaught hulls mid slot based anti-sub cap weapons that are great against fast moving, high transversal sub caps in groups.
I'd give new carrier hulls turrets / missile slots to give them more teeth against caps and supers.
I'd give capital ships capital e-war that could effect supers (thus forcing sub caps to keep capitals around in a fight to counter supers, even if fozzysov). I'd prevent sub capital e-war from doing anything to a super (i.e the HIC, which I'd replace with a capital HIC).
I'd reintroduce skynet. No game data needed to justify fixing crap game re-design.
I'd also bring back the AoE doomsday as a T2 module, with a reduced range / AoE. Because you know, each blob of ishtars blapped every few seconds, will fix our Tidi forum tear woes.
because i come from WoW where Level 80s are better than day one n00bs and thats how eve should be.
this idea that a week old player can ruin my day in a carrier is lame and dumb and should not be possible
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
2962
|
Posted - 2015.05.27 20:44:25 -
[25] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Asuka Solo wrote:
I'd allow caps and supers to be built anywhere.
I'd allow them to use hi-sec gates.
I'd give all caps t2 modules, guns and drones. Maybe some new faction stuff too.
Capital incursions.
I'd uncouple the need to use a jumpdrive with a cyno and allow caps to jump themselves.
I'd toy with the idea of deleting jump fatigue.
I'd add the following 2 role bonus to each sub cap: 1) "This ship does reduced damage to capital class vessels" 2) "This ship cannot target super capital vessels"
I'd then expand the capital class hull range so it resembles the sub cap range. minimum 3 t1 hulls per ship type, t2 versions and flavors, tech 3 capitals and modular caps.
I'd give new dreadnaught hulls mid slot based anti-sub cap weapons that are great against fast moving, high transversal sub caps in groups.
I'd give new carrier hulls turrets / missile slots to give them more teeth against caps and supers.
I'd give capital ships capital e-war that could effect supers (thus forcing sub caps to keep capitals around in a fight to counter supers, even if fozzysov). I'd prevent sub capital e-war from doing anything to a super (i.e the HIC, which I'd replace with a capital HIC).
I'd reintroduce skynet. No game data needed to justify fixing crap game re-design.
I'd also bring back the AoE doomsday as a T2 module, with a reduced range / AoE. Because you know, each blob of ishtars blapped every few seconds, will fix our Tidi forum tear woes.
because i come from WoW where Level 80s are better than day one n00bs and thats how eve should be. this idea that a week old player can ruin my day in a carrier is lame and dumb and should not be possible
Good for you. Admitting it is the first step in fixing it.
But maybe you should go back to Wow and grind your noob alt into a level 80 in 1 day?
After all, who needs to climb over isk barriers, SP barriers, numbers barriers, space barriers etc to prove their awesomeness anyway... when i can buy my lvl 80 boost and have a rifter gank anything from day one.
Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
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