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Strategic Industrial proposal - The Proletariat

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James Baboli Ferrous Infernum 807	Posted - 2015.05.30 16:04:49 - [31] - Quote Deep Nine wrote: Idea needs to be revisited. Waiting for this thread to die, or OP to make new contributions. Have a mostly baked proposal once this is dead. Talking more, Flying crazier, And drinking more Making battleships worth the warp
Kiddoomer ScrewWork Inc. 49	Posted - 2015.05.30 16:37:29 - [32] - Quote I've finished to modify the subsystems of the ship, I'm not a orca user so maybe the boosts bonus are too high. I wanted to make the other bonus around 80% of full efficiency of the ships mimicked. I removed both the electronic and engineering subsystems since I don't think this ship need them. There is a lot less lowslots now too. Ore Strategic Industrial bonuses: 5% reduction in module heat damage amount taken per level Industrial Subsystems Proletariat Industrial - Exhumation Matrix 3 Highslots 3% bonus to Strip Miner and Ice Harvester range per level 4% reduction in Strip Miner and Ice Harvester duration per level 5% reduction in capacitor recharge rate per level Role Bonus: 25% reduction to ship max velocity Proletariat Industrial - Covert Configuration 3 Highslots 7.5% bonus to Mining yield per level 5% reduction in Gas Cloud Harvesting duration per level 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per level Role Bonus: 100% bonus to Mining and Gas Cloud Harvesting yield 100% reduction in Cloaking Devices CPU requirement 50% reduction to ship cargo capacity GÇó Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking Device and Covert Cynosural Field Generator GÇó Cloak reactivation delay reduced to 5 seconds Proletariat Industrial - Salvage rescue systems 5 Highslots 5% reduction in Salvager duration per level 20% bonus to tractor beam range per level 5% reduction in Tractor Beam duration per level Proletariat Industrial - Foreman Processor 3 Highslots + 1 Medslot 2% bonus to Mining Foreman Links effectiveness per level Role Bonus: GÇó Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously Cargo Subsystems Proletariat Cargo - Ore Transports 1 Medslot + 2 Lowslot Cargo Capacity 300 + Ore Capacity 25'000 4% bonus to ship ore hold capacity per level 15% bonus to Survey Scanner range per level Proletariat Cargo - Planetary Resources Transports 1 Medslot + 2 Lowslot Cargo Capacity 550 + Planetary Commodity Capacity 40,000 10% bonus to ship planetary commodity hold capacity per level Proletariat Cargo - Ship Transports 1 Medslot + 2 Lowslot Cargo Capacity 550 + Ship Maintenance Bay Capacity 1,000,000 Proletariat Cargo - Danger zone transports 4 Medslot + 2 Lowslot Cargo Capacity 3 700 (4 625) + Fleet Hangar Capacity 45 000 (56 250) 5% bonus to fleet hangar and cargo capacity per level 4% bonus to all shield resistances per level 15% bonus to the benefits of overheating Afterburners, Microwarpdrives, Local Repair Modules and Resistance Modules per level 5% Reduction in the amount of heat damage absorbed by modules per level Propulsion Subsystems Proletariat Propulsion GÇô Scout Mobility Optimization 2 Lowslot + 2 Medslot 2% bonus to ship cargo capacity per level 1 Highslot + 2 Medslot 10% increase to scan strength of probes per level Role Bonus: +10 bonus to Relic and Data Analyzer virus strength Proletariat Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst 1 Medslot + 1 Lowslot 10% bonus to afterburner speed per level Proletariat Propulsion - Chassis Optimization 2 Lowslot 5% bonus to max velocity per level Proletariat Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier 5% increased agility per level 5% reduction in signature radius per level Role Bonus: Immunity to non-targeted interdiction A survey scanner tweak and new mining methods: interactive mining
Draahk Chimera Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 55	Posted - 2015.05.30 17:12:22 - [33] - Quote James Baboli wrote: Deep Nine wrote: Idea needs to be revisited. Waiting for this thread to die, or OP to make new contributions. Have a mostly baked proposal once this is dead. Sorry. Lots of work and stuff. Still think the subsystem bonuses and stuff on my op was ok but I took the problems with slots and sometimes over the top bonuses to heart and changed it thus: Ore Strategic Industrial bonuses: 5% reduction in module heat damage amount taken per level Industrial Subsystems Proletariat Industrial - Exhumation Matrix 2 Highslots 5% bonus to Strip Miner and Ice Harvester range per level 3% reduction in Strip Miner and Ice Harvester duration per level Proletariat Industrial - Covert Configuration 3 Highslots 7.5% bonus to Mining yield per level 5% reduction in Gas Cloud Harvesting duration per level Role Bonus: 100% bonus to Mining and Gas Cloud Harvesting yield 100% reduction in Cloaking Devices CPU requirement 50% reduction to ship cargo capacity GÇó Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking Device and Covert Cynosural Field Generator GÇó Cloak reactivation delay reduced to 5 seconds Proletariat Industrial - Salvage rescue systems 7 Highslots 5% reduction in Salvager duration per level Proletariat Industrial - Foreman Processor 3 Highslots + 1 Medslot 2% bonus to Mining Foreman Links effectiveness per level Role Bonus: GÇó Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously Cargo Subsystems Proletariat Cargo - Ore Transports 2 Lowslot Cargo Capacity 550 + Ore Capacity 30,000 10% bonus to ship ore hold capacity per level Proletariat Cargo - Planetary Resources Transports 2 Lowslot Cargo Capacity 550 + Planetary Commodity Capacity 30,000 10% bonus to ship planetary commodity hold capacity per level Proletariat Cargo - Ship Transports 2 Lowslot Cargo Capacity 550 + Ship Maintenance Bay Capacity 1,000,000 Proletariat Cargo - Danger zone transports 4 Medslot + 1 Lowslot Cargo Capacity 5000 + Fleet Hangar Capacity 40,000 5% bonus to fleet hangar capacity per level 4% bonus to all shield resistances per level Propulsion Subsystems Proletariat Propulsion - Cargo Storage Optimization 2% bonus to ship cargo capacity per level Role Bonus: 25% reduction to ship max velocity Proletariat Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst 1 Medslot + 1 Lowslot 10% bonus to afterburner speed per level Proletariat Propulsion - Chassis Optimization 1 Lowslot 5% bonus to max velocity per level Proletariat Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier 5% increased agility per level Role Bonus: Immunity to non-targeted interdiction Engineering Subsystems Proletariat Engineering - Superior heat injection 1 Medslot 17.5% bonus to the benefits of overheating Afterburners, Microwarpdrives, Local Repair Modules and Resistance Modules per level Proletariat Engineering - Supplemental Coolant Injector 1 Medslot 5% Reduction in the amount of heat damage absorbed by modules per level Proletariat Engineering- Capacitor Regeneration Matrix 1 Medslot 5% reduction in capacitor recharge rate per level Proletariat Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir 1 Medslot 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per level Electronic Subsystems Proletariat Electronic - Tractor Efficiency Crystals 1 Highslots + 1 Medslot 5% reduction in Tractor Beam duration per level 60% bonus to Tractor Beam range and velocity per level Proletariat Electronic - Tactical Surveys 2 Medslot 100% bonus to Survey Scanner range per level Proletariat Electronic - Minimalist Sensor Radiant 2 Medslot 5% reduction in signature radius per level Proletariat Electronic - Emergent Locus 1 Highslot + 2 Medslot 10% increase to scan strength of probes per level Role Bonus: +10 bonus to Relic and Data Analyzer virus strength 404 - Image not found
Kiddoomer ScrewWork Inc. 49	Posted - 2015.05.30 17:33:58 - [34] - Quote The only thing above that really bothers me is the cargo subsystem for ore hold. As a ore transport it's fine, but it makes this ship a better mackinaw with the exhumation matrix, knowing that the mack as a ore hold of 35k m3. I can't find a solution to that except chosing if this T3 industrial could be a solo miner or a ore transporter but not both. A survey scanner tweak and new mining methods: interactive mining
James Baboli Ferrous Infernum 808	Posted - 2015.05.30 21:13:06 - [35] - Quote Draahk Chimera wrote: James Baboli wrote: Deep Nine wrote: Idea needs to be revisited. Waiting for this thread to die, or OP to make new contributions. Have a mostly baked proposal once this is dead. Sorry. Lots of work and stuff. Still think the subsystem bonuses and stuff on my op was ok but I took the problems with slots and sometimes over the top bonuses to heart and changed it thus: Ore Strategic Industrial bonuses: 5% reduction in module heat damage amount taken per level Industrial Subsystems Proletariat Industrial - Exhumation Matrix 2 Highslots 5% bonus to Strip Miner and Ice Harvester range per level 3% reduction in Strip Miner and Ice Harvester duration per level Cargo Subsystems Proletariat Cargo - Danger zone transports 3 Medslot + 1 Lowslot Cargo Capacity 5000 + Fleet Hangar Capacity 40,000 5% bonus to fleet hangar capacity per level 4% bonus to all shield resistances per level Propulsion Subsystems Proletariat Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst 1 Medslot + 1 Lowslot 10% bonus to afterburner speed per level Engineering Subsystems Proletariat Engineering- Capacitor Regeneration Matrix 1 Medslot 5% reduction in capacitor recharge rate per level Electronic Subsystems Proletariat Electronic - Tractor Efficiency Crystals 1 Highslots + 1 Medslot 5% reduction in Tractor Beam duration per level 60% bonus to Tractor Beam range and velocity per level So, by my count: 3/6/2, with a larger hangar than the dedicated ore bay (50k @ l5 skills vs 45K @ l5 skills) and a max of 3.45 effective strip miners vs a hulk with an effective max of 5.4, but the shield resists and mids to mount a credible tank. Looks like a super retriever, with tank to me. Closer. an interesting trade off set, but some subsystems are pretty unbalanced vs others, especially if this has lots of fitting room Talking more, Flying crazier, And drinking more Making battleships worth the warp
James Baboli Ferrous Infernum 808	Posted - 2015.05.30 21:31:47 - [36] - Quote So, I was noodling around a bit. I think a big part of the issue is trying to mirror the subsystem mechanics already in play too closely. I think it would be much easier to balance if you set it up as 4 kinds of subsystems. Effectively they would split into: Role, electronics and engineering, propulsion, and utility, and you get to fit 2 utility. For example, role would have the tractor bonus subsytems, a mining subsystem or 2, a system to allow links, a gas huffing subsystem, and maybe a hauler subsystem, with a cargo bonus to the utility modules. Electronics and engineering would have a subsystem for cap capacity or recharge, one for fitting room, one to bonus the links, a subsystem for scanners, and a subsystem for tank. Propulsion would have an array of propulsion subsystems. Utility would have a: large ore bay (35k at max skills), Medium cargo bay (20k at max skills) and a medium small fleet hangar ( 15k @ l5), along side a turret or launcher hard point system, a subsystem for a 2nd and then third strip miner (letting you get 1 of the bonused strip miner's cycles into the hold at a time). So, a 3 strip miner version would probably be set up something like 3/4/3, and have ~3k of cargo hold with no ore bay to make it balanced IMO, forcing very tight micro-management of cargo in this configurations. Then a full ore bay version would have a double sized bay, but barely any ore to push into it, as the basic subsystem would have only one slot for a strip miner. This means long AFKs, but low yields. The links and link bonus subsytem to the links are split to avoid being a better booster than an orca while having a good tank and large hangar. Talking more, Flying crazier, And drinking more Making battleships worth the warp
Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans 2448	Posted - 2015.05.30 23:02:22 - [37] - Quote Maybe we shouldn't follow the current T3 model for subsystems. If we did, we might as well simply add more subsystems to the current line up and call it a day. If you were to design a new one, you would base it off of different aspects. Cargo subsystems, resources subs, propulsion, and electronics. Much easier to balance and create defined roles for each if you remove the extras. Don't even necessarily need 4 per group either. Could be more or less depending on role. Hell, scrap the current groups and give it as many groups as needed to maintain balance. E: similar to what he said ^^^
Uriam Khanid New Machinarium Corporation 4	Posted - 2015.05.31 07:04:02 - [38] - Quote general, about transport and mining: mining - ore/ice/gas transport - general purpose/mineral/ore/planetary commodity's/ammunition. transport subs may look like - 35.000 m3 with 20% bonus to specific cargo. it make T3 no so good on lower skill than T1 ship (like Kryos and Hoarder) . mining subs actually very difficult to configurate. but we don't need a T3 cloake barge, IMO.
Deep Nine The Bank of Prometheus 441	Posted - 2015.06.04 12:49:32 - [39] - Quote At least some variation of the idea would make sense and be useful.
Castelo Selva Forcas armadas DARKNESS. 80	Posted - 2015.06.04 14:08:37 - [40] - Quote +1 totaly supported. Best post ever!

Alexis Nightwish 228	Posted - 2015.06.04 18:58:31 - [41] - Quote Samillian wrote: So you want to obsolete all T1 and T2 industrials, mining barges, Exhumers and the Noctis with a single hull. Can't see it happening. Not supported. This was my exact thought looking over this. Draahk Chimera wrote: ...Samillian : Yeah... the way Strategic Cruisers made all T1 and T2 cruisers and battlecruisers obsolete. You have of course red the OP very carefully and noted how all the subs individually have smaller bonuses than the barges and indys they are based upon? Yeah, and T3Cs are one of the worst things that's ever happened to EVE. ** them, these broken as T3 Industrials, ** the king. CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge EVE Online's "I win!" Button Fixing bombs, not the bombers
Leto Aramaus Spiritus Draconis Spaceship Bebop 126	Posted - 2015.06.04 19:23:32 - [42] - Quote Alexis Nightwish wrote: Samillian wrote: So you want to obsolete all T1 and T2 industrials, mining barges, Exhumers and the Noctis with a single hull. Can't see it happening. Not supported. This was my exact thought looking over this. Draahk Chimera wrote: ...Samillian : Yeah... the way Strategic Cruisers made all T1 and T2 cruisers and battlecruisers obsolete. You have of course red the OP very carefully and noted how all the subs individually have smaller bonuses than the barges and indys they are based upon? Yeah, and T3Cs are one of the worst things that's ever happened to EVE. ** them, these broken as T3 Industrials, ** the king. So much this. No more T3s Nerf them all to be no better than T2, just customizable. Draahk I can't even... my support for your statement is so high... marry me? The UI update we deserve
Joe Risalo State War Academy Caldari State 802	Posted - 2015.06.04 19:40:14 - [43] - Quote My thoughts. They should perform marginally less that that of their t2 counter part (based on build). My reasoning is that they would be given more utility in comparison. IE Yield less than that of a Hulk, but can have cloak. Yield less than that of a Hulk, but can have nullifier. Yield less than that of a Hulk, but more tank. Yield less than that of a Hulk, but more drone damage. Command bonuses less than an Orca, but more ore hold. Less command, but more tank. Less command, but more damage. Less command, but can cloak. Less command, but has nullifier. Obviously these aren't exactly how it would go, but I think T3 indy should provide what other indys do, but be able to at less efficiency in exchange for more survivability allowing more efficient use in Null/WH/Low. If you don't think that it is balanced, you must also consider that destruction of your ship also gives skill loss.
vikari Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Nulli Secunda 123	Posted - 2015.06.06 02:09:18 - [44] - Quote I think the 5 second cloak reactivation is pushing it a little hard. I'd accept the 10 second like the SOE ships get, but having such a quick reactivation timer for what is a gas mining ship (in that configuration), and is likely to be used in someone space who is neutral or hostile to you should hold a little more risk.
Draahk Chimera Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 56	Posted - 2015.06.06 10:31:09 - [45] - Quote vikari wrote: I think the 5 second cloak reactivation is pushing it a little hard. I'd accept the 10 second like the SOE ships get, but having such a quick reactivation timer for what is a gas mining ship (in that configuration), and is likely to be used in someone space who is neutral or hostile to you should hold a little more risk. It's the same bonus as Venture. Witch has a frigate's agility and would cost a fraction of the money and will not loose you SP if ganked. 404 - Image not found
Kiddoomer ScrewWork Inc. 57	Posted - 2015.06.06 10:49:44 - [46] - Quote Draahk Chimera wrote: vikari wrote: I think the 5 second cloak reactivation is pushing it a little hard. I'd accept the 10 second like the SOE ships get, but having such a quick reactivation timer for what is a gas mining ship (in that configuration), and is likely to be used in someone space who is neutral or hostile to you should hold a little more risk. It's the same bonus as Venture. Witch has a frigate's agility and would cost a fraction of the money and will not loose you SP if ganked. *Prospect, venture is the T1 mining frigate. But yes, these 5 seconds are not OP to me too. A survey scanner tweak and new mining methods: interactive mining


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