EVE Search - COURIER MISSIONS ARE RIDICULOUS SCAMS

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Monkey Thumbs	Posted - 2003.11.11 01:24:00 - [1] I tried my first courier mission today, it looked like it'd be good money. The collateral was 10 mil and I had just had enough for it. I figured even if I pay the 10 mil I can get the money back when I finish the mission right? WRONG!!! The volume of the mission said it was 20000m3 and that I would get 1mil for the delivery. The description said that it was only 2mil items of Tritanium, guess what it turned out that it was a repackaged Bantam. So naturally I could not transport it. And even if it wasnt Bantam I would have had to break open the package to transport it, which would make me fail the mission. No where did it say in the courier mission board that you could not do the shipments in waves. Some one please do something about this!
Monkey Thumbs	Posted - 2003.11.11 01:24:00 - [2] I tried my first courier mission today, it looked like it'd be good money. The collateral was 10 mil and I had just had enough for it. I figured even if I pay the 10 mil I can get the money back when I finish the mission right? WRONG!!! The volume of the mission said it was 20000m3 and that I would get 1mil for the delivery. The description said that it was only 2mil items of Tritanium, guess what it turned out that it was a repackaged Bantam. So naturally I could not transport it. And even if it wasnt Bantam I would have had to break open the package to transport it, which would make me fail the mission. No where did it say in the courier mission board that you could not do the shipments in waves. Some one please do something about this!
Luther Pendragon	Posted - 2003.11.11 02:43:00 - [3] ouch! poor you :( I could see how one would make that mistake. Almost looks like a set up. ____________________________________ Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi! waves his hand in your face in the jedi way
Luther Pendragon Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2003.11.11 02:43:00 - [4] ouch! poor you :( I could see how one would make that mistake. Almost looks like a set up. ____________________________________ Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi! waves his hand in your face in the jedi way
Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2003.11.11 04:06:00 - [5] Quote: ouch! poor you :( I could see how one would make that mistake. Almost looks like a set up. Luther its actually a very valid complaint and a common scam. Nowhere does it indicate that you cannot complete such courier missions in more than one run. "New" (to courier missions) players see jobs they reasonably think they can do and get ripped off. Lets face simple facts - there is no ship in the game that transport another ship. Why then can people repackage ships and establish a clearly impossible courier mission from them? As it is CCP and Gm policy to refund any loss from "actual impossible missions" they also view it not only as a scam but as a breach of game rules. This is such an old complaint it remains yet another sloppy example of easy to resolve bugs and scams being left to live on for no good reason other than "{insert generic dev name}didn't know about" Its very sloppy, it ****es off customers and it should be resolved. Even if not fixed it cant be hard to add a simply text descritpion/warning that packages cannot be broken up and transported in pieces. Rocket science, this is not. (Said Yoda)
Morkt Drakt Caldari Black Omega Security	Posted - 2003.11.11 04:06:00 - [6] Quote: ouch! poor you :( I could see how one would make that mistake. Almost looks like a set up. Luther its actually a very valid complaint and a common scam. Nowhere does it indicate that you cannot complete such courier missions in more than one run. "New" (to courier missions) players see jobs they reasonably think they can do and get ripped off. Lets face simple facts - there is no ship in the game that transport another ship. Why then can people repackage ships and establish a clearly impossible courier mission from them? As it is CCP and Gm policy to refund any loss from "actual impossible missions" they also view it not only as a scam but as a breach of game rules. This is such an old complaint it remains yet another sloppy example of easy to resolve bugs and scams being left to live on for no good reason other than "{insert generic dev name}didn't know about" Its very sloppy, it ****es off customers and it should be resolved. Even if not fixed it cant be hard to add a simply text descritpion/warning that packages cannot be broken up and transported in pieces. Rocket science, this is not. (Said Yoda)
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.11.11 04:15:00 - [7] Edited by: j0sephine on 11/11/2003 04:17:04 "Nowhere does it indicate that you cannot complete such courier missions in more than one run." ... There is however clearly labeled switch on the mission interface, to display only missions with package small enough to fit in the cargo bay of the current ship. o.o (mayhaps should be enabled by default...) Plus, ain't those missions displayed in red instead of usual green? (or is that just for missions with too high collateral)
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2003.11.11 04:15:00 - [8] Edited by: j0sephine on 11/11/2003 04:17:04 "Nowhere does it indicate that you cannot complete such courier missions in more than one run." ... There is however clearly labeled switch on the mission interface, to display only missions with package small enough to fit in the cargo bay of the current ship. o.o (mayhaps should be enabled by default...) Plus, ain't those missions displayed in red instead of usual green? (or is that just for missions with too high collateral)
Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2003.11.11 04:23:00 - [9] Edited by: Morkt Drak on 11/11/2003 04:25:01 j0 - yes and no. Warnings aside what is the purpose in being able to package, say, a battleship that can never, ever, be moved by courier? There is a point beyond which there is no point to allowing a mcourier mission. (That being the maximum single object size possible transportable - being, atm, a iteron V with the uberest expanders - and , even potentiall XXXXX in some mega-titan, there IS a limit} You dont need warnings for exploits if you dont allow exploits. Warnings then remain for those not able to check their current ship cargo space against the legitimate courier package size. The difference is fundamental to good game design. - - - Flip Side: If allowing "too big packages" to exist is intetional; then why re-imburse players scammed by missions with impossible-to-meet conditions?
Morkt Drakt Caldari Black Omega Security	Posted - 2003.11.11 04:23:00 - [10] Edited by: Morkt Drak on 11/11/2003 04:25:01 j0 - yes and no. Warnings aside what is the purpose in being able to package, say, a battleship that can never, ever, be moved by courier? There is a point beyond which there is no point to allowing a mcourier mission. (That being the maximum single object size possible transportable - being, atm, a iteron V with the uberest expanders - and , even potentiall XXXXX in some mega-titan, there IS a limit} You dont need warnings for exploits if you dont allow exploits. Warnings then remain for those not able to check their current ship cargo space against the legitimate courier package size. The difference is fundamental to good game design. - - - Flip Side: If allowing "too big packages" to exist is intetional; then why re-imburse players scammed by missions with impossible-to-meet conditions?
j0sephine	Posted - 2003.11.11 04:40:00 - [11] Edited by: j0sephine on 11/11/2003 04:42:11 "j0 - yes and no. Warnings aside what is the purpose in being able to package, say, a battleship that can never, ever, be moved by courier?" It might be used as device to sell goods --ones that cannot be sold through standard interface-- in situation where the buyer and the seller cannot be present in the same place at the same time. With optional convenience of being able to allow anyone from the given company to pick up the goods. (the seller leaves package for pickup with the price contained in collateral, and the destination being the station where the package is placed. The seller docks at the station at their convenience, accepts mission, peeks into the package and either breaks it open thus effectively buying it, or 'delivers' it thus cancelling the deal.) ... Come to think of it, one could open some actual shop with rare modules this way, saving themselves the headache of the Trade channel. -.o ... That said, i suspect this usage of courier missions wasn't actually intended, and lack of limit to package size comes from simple reason it saves the programmers work of making the program smart enough to determine what is maximum cargo space available with the optimal ship, best setup of currently available modules, skills etc ;s
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2003.11.11 04:40:00 - [12] Edited by: j0sephine on 11/11/2003 04:42:11 "j0 - yes and no. Warnings aside what is the purpose in being able to package, say, a battleship that can never, ever, be moved by courier?" It might be used as device to sell goods --ones that cannot be sold through standard interface-- in situation where the buyer and the seller cannot be present in the same place at the same time. With optional convenience of being able to allow anyone from the given company to pick up the goods. (the seller leaves package for pickup with the price contained in collateral, and the destination being the station where the package is placed. The seller docks at the station at their convenience, accepts mission, peeks into the package and either breaks it open thus effectively buying it, or 'delivers' it thus cancelling the deal.) ... Come to think of it, one could open some actual shop with rare modules this way, saving themselves the headache of the Trade channel. -.o ... That said, i suspect this usage of courier missions wasn't actually intended, and lack of limit to package size comes from simple reason it saves the programmers work of making the program smart enough to determine what is maximum cargo space available with the optimal ship, best setup of currently available modules, skills etc ;s
Chai N'Dorr	Posted - 2003.11.11 09:37:00 - [13] I distinctly remember a 'news item' from CCP telling people they'd move in hard on folks trying these scams with Courier Missions. So much for that...
Chai N'Dorr Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2003.11.11 09:37:00 - [14] I distinctly remember a 'news item' from CCP telling people they'd move in hard on folks trying these scams with Courier Missions. So much for that... _ Join the Movement!
Targatta	Posted - 2003.11.16 21:15:00 - [15] I am not proud of it but got caught in the same scam today...and in response to the show only missins that fit ship option, that doesn't actually work for me, it still showed the impossible mission. I just hope my petition does me some good fingers crossed
Targatta Viziam	Posted - 2003.11.16 21:15:00 - [16] I am not proud of it but got caught in the same scam today...and in response to the show only missins that fit ship option, that doesn't actually work for me, it still showed the impossible mission. I just hope my petition does me some good fingers crossed
Tanner Mirabel	Posted - 2003.11.17 14:28:00 - [17] If I remember rightly the repackaging came in to stop another scam. People who had taken a serious beating in their ships were selling them on. People would pay full price for a ship only to find it needed the same amount again spent on repairs to make it space worthy. The solution was repackaging, you can't sell something that isnt repackaged and you can't repackage unless its in perfect condition.
Tanner Mirabel Minmatar Universal Exports	Posted - 2003.11.17 14:28:00 - [18] If I remember rightly the repackaging came in to stop another scam. People who had taken a serious beating in their ships were selling them on. People would pay full price for a ship only to find it needed the same amount again spent on repairs to make it space worthy. The solution was repackaging, you can't sell something that isnt repackaged and you can't repackage unless its in perfect condition.
Tanner Mirabel	Posted - 2003.11.17 14:34:00 - [19] ..and as for the courier missions, this is something that has been a serious issue for such a long time that they should shut them down completely until a working solution can be found. I think the only people who take them are people who are unfortunate enough to have not read the posts or not been warned by other players not to take them on. There is no faith in the system and it continues to be another beacon of 'you can exploit and we will keep letting you do it' (like lag death). They should just remove it from the game completely until they can rework and relaunch it.
Tanner Mirabel Minmatar Universal Exports	Posted - 2003.11.17 14:34:00 - [20] ..and as for the courier missions, this is something that has been a serious issue for such a long time that they should shut them down completely until a working solution can be found. I think the only people who take them are people who are unfortunate enough to have not read the posts or not been warned by other players not to take them on. There is no faith in the system and it continues to be another beacon of 'you can exploit and we will keep letting you do it' (like lag death). They should just remove it from the game completely until they can rework and relaunch it.
Omniwar	Posted - 2003.11.18 06:24:00 - [21] when you accept missions that are impossible to finish, go to help channel ask for polaris or a GM and they fininsh the mission for you, if noone are in help channel at that time send in a petition and they finish the mission for you, NEVER EVER BREAK THE PACKAGE. *Spawn of the Devil*
Omniwar Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2003.11.18 06:24:00 - [22] when you accept missions that are impossible to finish, go to help channel ask for polaris or a GM and they fininsh the mission for you, if noone are in help channel at that time send in a petition and they finish the mission for you, NEVER EVER BREAK THE PACKAGE. *Spawn of the Devil*
Davian Windspear	Posted - 2003.11.19 00:32:00 - [23] Monkey put in a petition and you should get your money back. 90% of courier missions are scams so be carefull. Its a sad display of the average eve player. Look for exploits and set up stupid courier missions to catch out new players.
Davian Windspear	Posted - 2003.11.19 00:32:00 - [24] Monkey put in a petition and you should get your money back. 90% of courier missions are scams so be carefull. Its a sad display of the average eve player. Look for exploits and set up stupid courier missions to catch out new players.
Veruna Caseti	Posted - 2003.11.19 06:58:00 - [25] Quote: It might be used as device to sell goods --ones that cannot be sold through standard interface-- in situation where the buyer and the seller cannot be present in the same place at the same time. With optional convenience of being able to allow anyone from the given company to pick up the goods. (the seller leaves package for pickup with the price contained in collateral, and the destination being the station where the package is placed. The seller docks at the station at their convenience, accepts mission, peeks into the package and either breaks it open thus effectively buying it, or 'delivers' it thus cancelling the deal.) ... Come to think of it, one could open some actual shop with rare modules this way, saving themselves the headache of the Trade channel. -.o ... That said, i suspect this usage of courier missions wasn't actually intended, and lack of limit to package size comes from simple reason it saves the programmers work of making the program smart enough to determine what is maximum cargo space available with the optimal ship, best setup of currently available modules, skills etc ;s Or CCP could make the Market work correctly instead of players having to invent one through the courier mission interface... Veruna Caseti Ishukone
Veruna Caseti Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2003.11.19 06:58:00 - [26] Quote: It might be used as device to sell goods --ones that cannot be sold through standard interface-- in situation where the buyer and the seller cannot be present in the same place at the same time. With optional convenience of being able to allow anyone from the given company to pick up the goods. (the seller leaves package for pickup with the price contained in collateral, and the destination being the station where the package is placed. The seller docks at the station at their convenience, accepts mission, peeks into the package and either breaks it open thus effectively buying it, or 'delivers' it thus cancelling the deal.) ... Come to think of it, one could open some actual shop with rare modules this way, saving themselves the headache of the Trade channel. -.o ... That said, i suspect this usage of courier missions wasn't actually intended, and lack of limit to package size comes from simple reason it saves the programmers work of making the program smart enough to determine what is maximum cargo space available with the optimal ship, best setup of currently available modules, skills etc ;s Or CCP could make the Market work correctly instead of players having to invent one through the courier mission interface... Veruna Caseti Ishukone
Kilhu Emmek	Posted - 2003.11.19 10:24:00 - [27] Definitely bring this to the attention of the GMs. The only way missions are ever going to be useful is if this sort of abuse is a) impossible and/or b) severely dealt with. Gradient is hiring. Read our Code of Conduct before applying.
Kilhu Emmek Minmatar Redshift Industrial	Posted - 2003.11.19 10:24:00 - [28] Definitely bring this to the attention of the GMs. The only way missions are ever going to be useful is if this sort of abuse is a) impossible and/or b) severely dealt with. Gradient is hiring. Read our Code of Conduct before applying.
Luther Pendragon	Posted - 2003.11.19 11:39:00 - [29] Edited by: Luther Pendragon on 19/11/2003 11:40:02 I find this to be more a design fault than a player fault. Its too simple to do and rather simple to fix. It ought to be fixed. ____________________________________ Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi! waves his hand in your face in the jedi way
Luther Pendragon Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2003.11.19 11:39:00 - [30] Edited by: Luther Pendragon on 19/11/2003 11:40:02 I find this to be more a design fault than a player fault. Its too simple to do and rather simple to fix. It ought to be fixed. ____________________________________ Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi! waves his hand in your face in the jedi way

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