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Drake Mezcal eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.15 19:41:00 - [1] Edited by: Drake Mezcal on 15/11/2006 19:48:02 Edited by: Drake Mezcal on 15/11/2006 19:44:55 Politics aside. Log in Traps. CCP, Get this sorted. Ive simply had enough and im sure many, many others are feeling the same. It has come to the point where i am planning on leaving the game if this is not sorted very soon. I have been a dedicated player for 2 years and never have i been frustrated enough actually consider leaving. Attacking a POS with a fleet logged off next to it is suicide for 2 reasons. A combination of 2 factors. 1) They Will have Acess to however many extra ships mid fight 2) A unbearable lag bomb will hit every in the system when they log on. Effecting people currently logged on more than the offenders logging on. I dont care about any reprocussions or flames this post recieves. I simply dont care. I loved this game but this is the Biggest Exploit ever, and your simply letting them get away with it. You may ask for solutions. Well, any solution would be a damsight better than actually 'allowing' this exploit to continue. Ideas :- 1) U log off in space, if your logged off for more than 15minutes when you log back on you warp back to a random ss in the system. 2) U log off in space, you cannot commit aggression for the first 90 seconds. 3) u log off in space, you cap is completely empty and all guns and missile lanchers hve no ammo in. And you have a 60second activation time before you can load your weapons. At the end of the day, any solution is better than simply letting this exploit continue. It is giving people a blatent unfair advantage thru use of out of game mechanics. It is causing major changes in large alliances, and if this is how warfare is going, i wudnt be surprised if every major alliance began to use them. What sort of reputation is that for your game? For the newer players, it is an absolutly undefendable tactic, no doubt discouraging people from actually continue playing, hell ive played for 2 years and if this goes on for much longer i swear, im going to go looking for a new MMORPG, friggin anything? anything at all which is actually a bit fairer than this. You cant cover your eyes to this, something has to be done and has to be done NOW. Maybe in Kali, this is not long away, But if it isnt done by the end of this year. I give up hope of it ever leaving, And personally i dont want to be in a game that allows something like this. And you guys KNOW it is wrong. And yes, if this isnt sorted before next year, all my stuff will be donated to my alliance. I would very very much appreciate some DEV imput here, myself and the entire game (obviously apart from the devious bastards using this exploit to move forward in the game)
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.11.15 19:50:00 - [2] Originally by: Drake Mezcal 1) U log off in space, if your logged off for more than 15minutes when you log back on you warp back to a random ss in the system. 2) U log off in space, you cannot commit aggression for the first 90 seconds. 3) u log off in space, you cap is completely empty and all guns and missile lanchers hve no ammo in. And you have a 60second activation time before you can load your weapons. 1) Just make it warp u to anywhere no closer than 1au from a celestial object... Completely random. (That way, you don't... by chance... end up warping to someone else's pos, a gate, or station. 2) Good idea 3) I like it, you can still safespot and cloak and wait for your cap to recharge, but you pay the price for the convenience of logging in space. ~~~~~~~~~ I wish my lawn was EMO so it would cut itself. I approve of this message.
Cpt Pewpew	Posted - 2006.11.15 19:53:00 - [3] I agree very much with you drake. I dont mind ppl logging on togehter to play, or to log off when they dont want to play, just adjust the current gameplay mechanisms to not make these kinds of LOGIN-Traps a win-button for pos/fleet and alliance warfare. its a very deterimental aspect of the game and almost all players 0.0 and empire pilots alike gets royally ****ed off when this happens
Arben Decota	Posted - 2006.11.15 20:07:00 - [4] Agree, What about maybe you cant lock anything for 180seoncds.
Beef Hardslab AlphaHivE	Posted - 2006.11.15 20:08:00 - [5] I think if you log off in an enemy's sovereign space (hell not even an enemy - say someone with whom you are NOT blue), there should be an increasing chance of logging back in to a pod per time spent logged off there. 5-10% chance per 24 hours spent logged off in their sovereign space.
Major Stormer Caldari Demon Womb	Posted - 2006.11.15 20:12:00 - [6] While ive never met a logon trap, it sounds nasty. I personally would like too see any players that take part in it banned, but thats me. /signed for any action taken against logon traps.
Hertford Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.15 20:14:00 - [7] Originally by: Beef Hardslab I think if you log off in an enemy's sovereign space (hell not even an enemy - say someone with whom you are NOT blue), there should be an increasing chance of logging back in to a pod per time spent logged off there. 5-10% chance per 24 hours spent logged off in their sovereign space. If you do not have positive standings to the entity that owns sovereignty of the system you logged out in, your ship remains in space.
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.11.15 20:18:00 - [8] Originally by: Hertford Originally by: Beef Hardslab I think if you log off in an enemy's sovereign space (hell not even an enemy - say someone with whom you are NOT blue), there should be an increasing chance of logging back in to a pod per time spent logged off there. 5-10% chance per 24 hours spent logged off in their sovereign space. If you do not have positive standings to the entity that owns sovereignty of the system you logged out in, your ship remains in space. Ehh while it sounds like a good idea, its a bit drastic. Too many chances are taken by logging in non-sov space then. It just gives another advantage to defenders. People have to logoff quickly sometimes. Lets not forget that not everyone has time to go 20 jmps to help with a battle and travel 20 jmps back just to make sure their ship will be there tomorrow. ~~~~~~~~~ I wish my lawn was EMO so it would cut itself. I approve of this message.
Sol Flare Caldari The White Star Consortium	Posted - 2006.11.15 20:18:00 - [9] Well I have a complete wireless internet connection, no I'm not stealing it... I just live in the sticks with no hardwire connections, but I tend to drop when several packets get lost in transfer which tends to happen when lots of activity starts to happen... Sucks for me yes... I deal with it though. So by putting this 90s wait time on, that means I can't re-enter a battle I just happen to drop from? I'm sorry but this fix does not seem like a fix to me or to people that may have my same issue. There really is no way to get around this atm. I agree it has to be frustrating but eliminating someone from engaging for 1.5 minutes is essentially taking them out of a fight... And you can't drop a POS in that amount of time anyhow. I would counter this fix by having people start logging in 90s before my fleet is depleted to a level that is unsustainable or just have a SS where everyone logs in and then warps to the POS... So I do not see this as a fix... just someone blowing off steam... Which we are all allowed to do
Serendipity007 X.T.R Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.15 20:20:00 - [10] Well said. I notice you said "if logged out for 15 minutes". This counters the past Dev argument of "two players are fighting rats, one disconnects, and tries to log on". You could even go further by having the client send a signal when a person logs off, to turn that timer down to 5 minutes. And any person trying to artificially disconnect EvE should be banned for exploiting. If there are those who are concerned about safely logging off, then after the 15 minute timer, when you log in, you will be auto-cloaked similar to the way jump gates work, except that you have one of the above listed penalties, and can't uncloak until the timer is up. This way, if there is a log-in trap and the enemy logs in 30 players, by the time the lag settles, you can see that there is a log-in trap and get your forces out of the engagement. I agree, log-in traps are the most widely used exploit in EvE and is breaking large-scale PvP as we know it. It MUST be dealt with in Kali, or else you will see a mass exodus of paying players. ___________________________________________________ "I'm an engineer, not a miracle worker!" - Scotty, Star Trek: The Original Series
lillypad yar	Posted - 2006.11.15 20:23:00 - [11] Let me guess, Was it the Goons or RA? log in traps are pathetic.. At the END of the day, We all play games to have fun and how are we supposed to have fun when our enemys CHEAT
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.11.15 20:24:00 - [12] Originally by: Sol Flare I would counter this fix by having people start logging in 90s before my fleet is depleted to a level that is unsustainable or just have a SS where everyone logs in and then warps to the POS... Sounds like someone has experience. And those reasons are exaclty the reasons for the penalties, and then harsher penalties for logging off in space. Sure, people loose connection. If it happens to be in the middle of a fight, at least you'll warp to a random spot where you can wait for the timer to go away and for your cap to recharge. With Kali, fights will be longer, perhaps you can make it back in time. There's always going to be a$$hats that exploit the system. Or as some people would say "Use game mechanics" to win an advantage over opponents which I think sucks TBH. The logoff/logon tactics are something that play a serious role in the success or complete and utter failure of EVE. ~~~~~~~~~ I wish my lawn was EMO so it would cut itself. I approve of this message.
Drake Mezcal eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.15 20:25:00 - [13] Edited by: Drake Mezcal on 15/11/2006 20:27:45 Originally by: Sol Flare Well I have a complete wireless internet connection, no I'm not stealing it... I just live in the sticks with no hardwire connections, but I tend to drop when several packets get lost in transfer which tends to happen when lots of activity starts to happen... Sucks for me yes... I deal with it though. So by putting this 90s wait time on, that means I can't re-enter a battle I just happen to drop from? I'm sorry but this fix does not seem like a fix to me or to people that may have my same issue. There really is no way to get around this atm. I agree it has to be frustrating but eliminating someone from engaging for 1.5 minutes is essentially taking them out of a fight... And you can't drop a POS in that amount of time anyhow. I would counter this fix by having people start logging in 90s before my fleet is depleted to a level that is unsustainable or just have a SS where everyone logs in and then warps to the POS... So I do not see this as a fix... just someone blowing off steam... Which we are all allowed to do Yes, i understand, Notice i mention "If you are logged in space for longer than 15minutes" This means within 15mins you can log back on combat ready, if its more than 15minutes then the penaltys apply. Can i also reply to a previous post. I am not venting off steam, i am tired of people talking about the subject and nothing being done. I am also afriad the longer this is allowed the more widely used it will be.
Mangold Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.11.15 20:26:00 - [14] signed.
Lord Sid Minmatar Lordless	Posted - 2006.11.15 20:28:00 - [15] Edited by: Lord Sid on 15/11/2006 20:29:33 Originally by: Drake Mezcal Edited by: Drake Mezcal on 15/11/2006 19:48:02 Edited by: Drake Mezcal on 15/11/2006 19:44:55 Politics aside. Log in Traps. CCP, Get this sorted. Ive simply had enough and im sure many, many others are feeling the same. It has come to the point where i am planning on leaving the game if this is not sorted very soon. I have been a dedicated player for 2 years and never have i been frustrated enough actually consider leaving. Attacking a POS with a fleet logged off next to it is suicide for 2 reasons. A combination of 2 factors. 1) They Will have Acess to however many extra ships mid fight 2) A unbearable lag bomb will hit every in the system when they log on. Effecting people currently logged on more than the offenders logging on. I dont care about any reprocussions or flames this post recieves. I simply dont care. I loved this game but this is the Biggest Exploit ever, and your simply letting them get away with it. You may ask for solutions. Well, any solution would be a damsight better than actually 'allowing' this exploit to continue. Ideas :- 1) U log off in space, if your logged off for more than 15minutes when you log back on you warp back to a random ss in the system. 2) U log off in space, you cannot commit aggression for the first 90 seconds. 3) u log off in space, you cap is completely empty and all guns and missile lanchers hve no ammo in. And you have a 60second activation time before you can load your weapons. At the end of the day, any solution is better than simply letting this exploit continue. It is giving people a blatent unfair advantage thru use of out of game mechanics. It is causing major changes in large alliances, and if this is how warfare is going, i wudnt be surprised if every major alliance began to use them. What sort of reputation is that for your game? For the newer players, it is an absolutly undefendable tactic, no doubt discouraging people from actually continue playing, hell ive played for 2 years and if this goes on for much longer i swear, im going to go looking for a new MMORPG, friggin anything? anything at all which is actually a bit fairer than this. You cant cover your eyes to this, something has to be done and has to be done NOW. Maybe in Kali, this is not long away, But if it isnt done by the end of this year. I give up hope of it ever leaving, And personally i dont want to be in a game that allows something like this. And you guys KNOW it is wrong. And yes, if this isnt sorted before next year, all my stuff will be donated to my alliance. I would very very much appreciate some DEV imput here, myself and the entire game (obviously apart from the devious bastards using this exploit to move forward in the game) So let me get this whine right: You attacked a POS. The owner's logged in and killed you. And somehow this is unfare? This is called homefield advantage, deal with it. edit: How is this a trap at all? Was the POS the bait? Did you innocently shoot it accidently? -=Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds=-
Saladin Minmatar V I R I I Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.11.15 20:33:00 - [16] The problem is that CCP will not change that, and if they do, it will not be in the near future. The best way to address this is to lay similar traps yourselves. ----
Drake Mezcal eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.15 20:33:00 - [17] Originally by: Lord Sid Edited by: Lord Sid on 15/11/2006 20:29:33 Originally by: Drake Mezcal Edited by: Drake Mezcal on 15/11/2006 19:48:02 Edited by: Drake Mezcal on 15/11/2006 19:44:55 Politics aside. Log in Traps. CCP, Get this sorted. Ive simply had enough and im sure many, many others are feeling the same. It has come to the point where i am planning on leaving the game if this is not sorted very soon. I have been a dedicated player for 2 years and never have i been frustrated enough actually consider leaving. Attacking a POS with a fleet logged off next to it is suicide for 2 reasons. A combination of 2 factors. 1) They Will have Acess to however many extra ships mid fight 2) A unbearable lag bomb will hit every in the system when they log on. Effecting people currently logged on more than the offenders logging on. I dont care about any reprocussions or flames this post recieves. I simply dont care. I loved this game but this is the Biggest Exploit ever, and your simply letting them get away with it. You may ask for solutions. Well, any solution would be a damsight better than actually 'allowing' this exploit to continue. Ideas :- 1) U log off in space, if your logged off for more than 15minutes when you log back on you warp back to a random ss in the system. 2) U log off in space, you cannot commit aggression for the first 90 seconds. 3) u log off in space, you cap is completely empty and all guns and missile lanchers hve no ammo in. And you have a 60second activation time before you can load your weapons. At the end of the day, any solution is better than simply letting this exploit continue. It is giving people a blatent unfair advantage thru use of out of game mechanics. It is causing major changes in large alliances, and if this is how warfare is going, i wudnt be surprised if every major alliance began to use them. What sort of reputation is that for your game? For the newer players, it is an absolutly undefendable tactic, no doubt discouraging people from actually continue playing, hell ive played for 2 years and if this goes on for much longer i swear, im going to go looking for a new MMORPG, friggin anything? anything at all which is actually a bit fairer than this. You cant cover your eyes to this, something has to be done and has to be done NOW. Maybe in Kali, this is not long away, But if it isnt done by the end of this year. I give up hope of it ever leaving, And personally i dont want to be in a game that allows something like this. And you guys KNOW it is wrong. And yes, if this isnt sorted before next year, all my stuff will be donated to my alliance. I would very very much appreciate some DEV imput here, myself and the entire game (obviously apart from the devious bastards using this exploit to move forward in the game) So let me get this whine right: You attacked a POS. The owner's logged in and killed you. And somehow this is unfare? This is called homefield advantage, deal with it. edit: How is this a trap at all? Was the POS the bait? Did you innocently shoot it accidently? First of all, if you want to flame, use a main. The we can see if your opinion is from an biased ur unbiased corporation. Secondly as i have previously said, no. I have not died. Currently we are sitting in a POS forming a gang and i thought id use the time to make the post.
Zebler Four Horsemen	Posted - 2006.11.15 20:38:00 - [18] Could not agree with you more, these kinds of tactics are really lame. I shall ignore the above troll, he knows he is talking rubbish. Both login and logout atm are big issues. Also, the return warp to point is an issue as well. I like the suggestions, if you are logged out for more than 15mins, then you go to a random position in space (just like if a dev moves you when you are stuck), and have no cap. I think all people should be aggressed at all times for when it comes to logout (not jumping or docking). Does not matter if you are npcing or hunting, there should be no advantage/disadvantage to either group. When you logout in space there should be something like a 5+ minute period where your screen is greyed out. You cannot do anything, but you can see local. This lets you ss in a system all by yourself and log safely. It does not let you logout to save your skin. If you relog within 15mins, you ship should reappear where you logged out initally, no matter how many times you login or logout. Its so bad atm, we have ppl logging out to save suicide scouts.
Soumk	Posted - 2006.11.15 20:40:00 - [19] I saw a log on trap once. It had the chewed off remains of an ASCN pod pilot in it.
Viictoria	Posted - 2006.11.15 20:44:00 - [20] Originally by: Lord Sid edit: How is this a trap at all? Was the POS the bait? Did you innocently shoot it accidently? SPIES Every big alliance has em. And if they don't, they're liars. Also: /signed
Golden Ass	Posted - 2006.11.15 21:24:00 - [21] I have to sign this, Just coz you ignore it doesnt mean it goes away, Get it sorted
Crucifier The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.11.15 21:28:00 - [22] Those changes wouldnt affect us in any way at all
Drake Mezcal eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.15 22:19:00 - [23] Crucifier, In all honesty, You guys are a strong alliance, you have the skills and experiance to achieve anything you put your minds to. But i can guarentee, some POSs you have defended would now be dead, some of those "kill/death ratios" would be a lot more fair and your reputation would be a hell of a lot more respectful without the use of these tactics.
Kiah Khan Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2006.11.15 22:25:00 - [24] Edited by: Kiah Khan on 15/11/2006 22:29:43 Originally by: Crucifier Those changes wouldnt affect us in any way at all I have to agree with Crucifier here (And I don't particularly like -A-, no offense guys lol). Those specific changes won't stop Log-in traps from working. When a huge log-in trap is sprung, everyone in the system is hit with 2-3 minutes of lag anyway. So waiting for capacitor, or not being able to target won't matter during that time. It will take at least 2 minutes for a nice gang to form even after log-in. I'm not including the % chance of ending up in a pod in this retort because I think that is excessive. And I would almost hate to bring this up, but now that certain alliances are using the Titan's Jump portal, how is this any different than a log-in trap? A huge fleet is magically appearing at your location from another system far from you. Actually, they will have an advantage here - they will already be in a gang ect ect. This will be even more of an advantage with the new Kali gangs.
Drake Mezcal eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.15 22:31:00 - [25] Originally by: Kiah Khan Originally by: Crucifier Those changes wouldnt affect us in any way at all I have to agree with Crucifier here (And I don't particularly like -A-, no offense guys lol). Those specific changes won't stop Log-in traps from working. When a huge log-in trap is sprung, everyone in the system is hit with 2-3 minutes of lag anyway. So waiting for capacitor, or not being able to target won't matter during that time. It will take at least 2 minutes for a nice gang to form even after log-in. I'm not including the % chance of ending up in a pod in this retort because I think that is excessive. And I would almost hate to bring this up, but now that certain alliances are using the Titan's Jump portal, how is this any different than a log-in trap? A huge fleet is magically appearing at your location from another system far from you. Using the titan, is using game mechanics, and is perfectly legit, Im not saying my ideas are perfect, but when i mentioned the possibilty of warping to a random ss if you have been logged in space for more than 15minutes, then it gives your entire fleet a chance to leave. Thus putting a stop to these insane Kill/death ratios people are getting from using these 'Questionable tactics'
Lunarra Paradox v2.0 Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2006.11.15 22:59:00 - [26] Can it not be like if witnessing a logging trap to get a GM or a petition, they get to see that suudenly all members or so of the same alliance/gang desappeared from server, to reappear shortly to engage something/someone? Then warning on individuals, after 3 warning... kiss your account goodbye? Disconnection or server failure is one thing, but log traps are easy to spot and obvious when they happen: 1-2 individuals desappearing for a short while... then dozens of them.... BIG difference!
Lunarra Paradox v2.0 Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2006.11.15 23:05:00 - [27] Originally by: Drake Mezcal Originally by: Kiah Khan Originally by: Crucifier Those changes wouldnt affect us in any way at all I have to agree with Crucifier here (And I don't particularly like -A-, no offense guys lol). Those specific changes won't stop Log-in traps from working. When a huge log-in trap is sprung, everyone in the system is hit with 2-3 minutes of lag anyway. So waiting for capacitor, or not being able to target won't matter during that time. It will take at least 2 minutes for a nice gang to form even after log-in. I'm not including the % chance of ending up in a pod in this retort because I think that is excessive. And I would almost hate to bring this up, but now that certain alliances are using the Titan's Jump portal, how is this any different than a log-in trap? A huge fleet is magically appearing at your location from another system far from you. Using the titan, is using game mechanics, and is perfectly legit, Im not saying my ideas are perfect, but when i mentioned the possibilty of warping to a random ss if you have been logged in space for more than 15minutes, then it gives your entire fleet a chance to leave. Thus putting a stop to these insane Kill/death ratios people are getting from using these 'Questionable tactics' I'd like to add that there is a simple fact: they had to get the titan at the first place anyway...! I don't see that as being a log trap since at least the players will show online.
Smagd Encina Technologies Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.11.15 23:37:00 - [28] Example from earlier: Tactical situation: We sit on a gate, camping with an interdictor. Enemies warp in. About every second logs off the moment he sees the bubble and warps off safely. Every minute or so he logs back in and out before even dropping out of warp. Even though we manage to bubble him again before his ship is able to turn, he warps out again. Probing is of course useless if he keep doing this every minute. Every once in a while he complains in local about problems with his ISP. After a while, enemy intel has gathered a couple ships. They break our camp, we run to the next system and safespot. They don't even bother using probes After a while, they leave system. We return to find one of the logoffski pilots sitting in a belt. We warp in, the whole enemy group logs in around us. Two of us die, the rest make it out alive. They tell us to go back into our kindergarden. All the above tactics are completely GM legal. The implication is: we can only fight them back by using them same tactics, and they apparently expect us to for otherwise inferior gameplay. I'll have to interject: Kudos to their pilots who did NOT log off, and died. One even made it out of the bubble in his pod - well played. I'll tell you what: enjoy your kills folks, sorry that we can't play the same game - but if you play chess with an extra rule to be able to take back each move, it's not chess any more in my book so I won't use that rule. Smagd -- Thukkers do
Traxio Nacho Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.16 00:14:00 - [29] One of the best answers at fanfest was Oveur's to this questions was beautiful calling anyone using this tactic as being*****suckers, cowards and don't have the skill to fight properly. He also hinted they are trying to do something about logon traps but at the moment theres nothing they can do about it.
The Enslaver Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.16 00:33:00 - [30] Simple solution imo... Disallow more than 5 people per minute to log on in space in a system. Jumping, undocking, etc, unaffected. Stop's login traps in one go, only slight annoyance after server reboots and the like. That is my preference, anyway. -------- It's great being Amarr, aint it?
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.11.16 01:10:00 - [31] Originally by: Hertford Originally by: Beef Hardslab I think if you log off in an enemy's sovereign space (hell not even an enemy - say someone with whom you are NOT blue), there should be an increasing chance of logging back in to a pod per time spent logged off there. 5-10% chance per 24 hours spent logged off in their sovereign space. If you do not have positive standings to the entity that owns sovereignty of the system you logged out in, your ship remains in space. Your ship should stay in space, period. If you want to be safe, then find somewhere to dock, or activate a cloak before logging. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.11.16 01:15:00 - [32] Originally by: Traxio Nacho One of the best answers at fanfest was Oveur's to this questions was beautiful calling anyone using this tactic as being***suckers, cowards and don't have the skill to fight properly. He also mentioned that if they need to tarnish their reputations to fight, then they'll do it. At least that's what it sounded like on EVE-TV. It'll be a wonderful day when crap like this doesn't work any more. Make ships NEVER vanish from space, logout, CTD, ISP died, whatever, your ship warps away, and sits there, period. If you want safety, logout when docked in a station, or at a POS, but if that POS goes down with you gone, sucks to be you. Originally by:** kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Anonymous Coward Gallente Panopticon Citadel	Posted - 2006.11.16 03:04:00 - [33] Originally by: lillypad yar Let me guess, Was it the Goons or RA? log in traps are pathetic.. At the END of the day, We all play games to have fun and how are we supposed to have fun when our enemys CHEAT Can you please post this again with your LV/V main so I can link to conversation logs of your alliance mates giving orders to purposefully crash nodes?
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.11.16 03:16:00 - [34] there is no such thing as a deliberate crashed node - ccp put things in palce that should be able to handle 1500 ships per system and up to 800-1000 on a single grid. The problem more lies in poorly written code which should improve when SISI is introduced
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.11.16 03:38:00 - [35] Originally by: Miss Overlord there is no such thing as a deliberate crashed node - ccp put things in palce that should be able to handle 1500 ships per system and up to 800-1000 on a single grid. The problem more lies in poorly written code which should improve when SISI is introduced Where are you pulling these figures from? They stink... It doesn't matter how reinforced a Node is, it can always be crashed. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Kuriatai	Posted - 2006.11.16 03:45:00 - [36] Log off in space and you don't have warp drive for (insert your favorite time period here). You have to wait for your warp drive to do a cold restart before you can go anywhere after logging on outside a station. Commander USS Turtle U-1 Unknown, unauthorized, and first of that class
JForce The Arrow Project The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2006.11.16 03:58:00 - [37] Whilst I agree, can someone explain how this is different to this: I have a POS. Many corp members have logged off there hours ago. Suddenly an enemy force enters the system and starts attacking the POS. I am online at the POS, and I immediately put the call out for reinforcements. Calls and SMS are made/sent, and soon pilots start logging in. Soon we outnumber the attackers 2:1 and are able to defend the POS. Is that a log on trap, or genuine? Now we know that it's genuine cause that's how I laid it out, but if you were the attacking force, it sure LOOKS like a login trap?
Ernest Graefenberg Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 04:35:00 - [38] Originally by: JForce Whilst I agree, can someone explain how this is different to this: I have a POS. Many corp members have logged off there hours ago. Suddenly an enemy force enters the system and starts attacking the POS. I am online at the POS, and I immediately put the call out for reinforcements. Calls and SMS are made/sent, and soon pilots start logging in. Soon we outnumber the attackers 2:1 and are able to defend the POS. Is that a log on trap, or genuine? Now we know that it's genuine cause that's how I laid it out, but if you were the attacking force, it sure LOOKS like a login trap? Neither matters, because even if 100 people logging in at the exact same second were a genuine coincidence - if the effect is unfairly and idiotically beneficial to the side that was previously not playing the game, then there's a mechanical problem there. It really doesn't matter whether an advantage is gained intentionally or not - what matters is whether the mechanic and interactivity involved is a) intentional b) good gameplay. In this case it's neither.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.11.16 04:53:00 - [39] Originally by: Anonymous Coward Originally by: lillypad yar Let me guess, Was it the Goons or RA? log in traps are pathetic.. At the END of the day, We all play games to have fun and how are we supposed to have fun when our enemys CHEAT Can you please post this again with your LV/V main so I can link to conversation logs of your alliance mates giving orders to purposefully crash nodes? Why dont you just send them to CCP? as intentionally causing lag or crashes is a banable offense.
JForce The Arrow Project The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2006.11.16 05:05:00 - [40] Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg Originally by: JForce Whilst I agree, can someone explain how this is different to this: I have a POS. Many corp members have logged off there hours ago. Suddenly an enemy force enters the system and starts attacking the POS. I am online at the POS, and I immediately put the call out for reinforcements. Calls and SMS are made/sent, and soon pilots start logging in. Soon we outnumber the attackers 2:1 and are able to defend the POS. Is that a log on trap, or genuine? Now we know that it's genuine cause that's how I laid it out, but if you were the attacking force, it sure LOOKS like a login trap? Neither matters, because even if 100 people logging in at the exact same second were a genuine coincidence - if the effect is unfairly and idiotically beneficial to the side that was previously not playing the game, then there's a mechanical problem there. It really doesn't matter whether an advantage is gained intentionally or not - what matters is whether the mechanic and interactivity involved is a) intentional b) good gameplay. In this case it's neither. I disagree. If I am able to rally a force to repel the attackers, then that is indeed good gameplay. If mechanics were introduced that meant you couldn't introduce forces to defend your assets, then it would cause far more problems than log on tactics already have. Essentially if you can begin attacking someone's POS, you've won. They're not allowed to have players come to defend it, as it may cause an effect that's not beneficial to the attackers, so then what can you do? And then you could say you're not allowed to jump into a gate camp, or into a system where your enemy is. You KNOW it's going to cause an effect, so you're not allowed to do it. So then we'd end up with no one allowed to engage
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2006.11.16 05:06:00 - [41] "After a while, enemy intel has gathered a couple ships. They break our camp, we run to the next system and safespot. They don't even bother using probes After a while, they leave system. We return to find one of the logoffski pilots sitting in a belt. We warp in, the whole enemy group logs in around us. Two of us die, the rest make it out alive. They tell us to go back into our kindergarden." Hahaha as they should. classic tale of EVE pvp a bunch of total asswad chickenshats, all afraid to try a tough fight. It is the culture you start it and perpetuate it. If you want pvp you should have fought them int he first palce, but no you ran off to safespot, then you comeback again and only when you see 1-2 easy kills do you engage, you get pounced on scatter and a few die.... sorry you perpetuate this type of gameplay so please stop whining about it.
Drake Mezcal eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.16 08:41:00 - [42] Bump! I want every1 to see this topic!
Mangold Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.11.16 09:41:00 - [43] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 "After a while, enemy intel has gathered a couple ships. They break our camp, we run to the next system and safespot. They don't even bother using probes After a while, they leave system. We return to find one of the logoffski pilots sitting in a belt. We warp in, the whole enemy group logs in around us. Two of us die, the rest make it out alive. They tell us to go back into our kindergarden." Hahaha as they should. classic tale of EVE pvp a bunch of total asswad chickenshats, all afraid to try a tough fight. It is the culture you start it and perpetuate it. If you want pvp you should have fought them int he first palce, but no you ran off to safespot, then you comeback again and only when you see 1-2 easy kills do you engage, you get pounced on scatter and a few die.... sorry you perpetuate this type of gameplay so please stop whining about it. This post illustrates the need to put a stop to login traps.
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.16 09:59:00 - [44] Originally by: Anonymous Coward Originally by: lillypad yar stuff Pure trollage How about YOU post with YOUR main? I a have braved the waters of threads on this topic without recourse to alts. I freely put myself in the line of fire so anyone who feels the need can track me down and pod me ingame for anything I have ever said on these boards. I, unlike many, am prepared to face the consequences of my actions. This is called "Being an Adult", ingame or out of it. I am here to state that to the best of my knowledge, my corp has never engaged in these lame tactics. Nor do we intend to start now. We will stand or fall based on our abilities to actually play the game. If anyone disagrees: Find me and try to pod me, I promise not to log. F4T4L is Recruiting!
Smagd Encina Technologies Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:15:00 - [45] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Originally by: Smagd After a while, enemy intel has gathered a couple ships. They break our camp, we run to the next system and safespot. They don't even bother using probes After a while, they leave system. We return to find one of the logoffski pilots sitting in a belt. We warp in, the whole enemy group logs in around us. Two of us die, the rest make it out alive. They tell us to go back into our kindergarden. Hahaha as they should. classic tale of EVE pvp a bunch of total asswad chickenshats, all afraid to try a tough fight. It is the culture you start it and perpetuate it. If you want pvp you should have fought them int he first palce, but no you ran off to safespot, then you comeback again and only when you see 1-2 easy kills do you engage, you get pounced on scatter and a few die.... sorry you perpetuate this type of gameplay so please stop whining about it. Note that I wasn't talking about stuff like blobbing. I left out the info on ship types with the express purpose not to get into the whole numbers argument. Nice of you to assume we fought outnumbering them. Maybe we were, but that doesn't change anything. Now let's please get back to the topic of evading lost fights by logging off and using synchronized logins to rig a fight into your favour. PS: If you ask nicely, I'll send you the ship info by Eve Mail and maybe even throw in a few free insults. -- Thukkers do
Treelox Amarr Solar Storm Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:25:00 - [46] Originally by: The Enslaver Simple solution imo... Disallow more than 5 people per minute to log on in space in a system. going to make getting into Jita a pain in the arse, after dt or a reboot. -- Signature edited - this is your last warning - Jacques
Lubomir Penev Gallente Dark Nexxus	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:31:00 - [47] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Your ship should stay in space, period. If you want to be safe, then find somewhere to dock, or activate a cloak before logging. This gets my vote too. Ships disappearing in space makes no sense at all from a roleplay point of view and is the source of at least three evil. - Logoffsky - Login trap - Complex farming in ennemy space If you intend to operate in ennemy territory you should run the blockade in and out, right now you can't even seal off a dead end system with no station as you are always at the mercy of someone who logged out in space. If you want to operate far from any station in deep 0.0 bring a POS, it's not like mechanism are not present already that permit it. People operating out of secure cans and having the safety off having their ship disappearing is unfair toward those making the effort to deploy and maintain POS.
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:36:00 - [48] got a counter for the last poster - dead end system not being defendable because of ppl logging into NPC ( how about this claim less space most 0.0 goes unused due to the choke points) if CCP are going to introduce this id like to see the number of connections tripled around 0.0 and going into and out of 0.0 alliances might use less space that way
Cryten Jones Gallente Eldritch Storm	Posted - 2006.11.16 11:45:00 - [49] How about having the map show players logged off in the last hour ? This would show you a big blob where 30 people have just logged in system ! Simple, easy and non game changing. -CJ & Gil
Nicholai Pestot Gallente Havoc Inc	Posted - 2006.11.16 11:59:00 - [50] I would have to agree to ships staying in space when you log off. If you end up being forced to log off in enemy space due to time constraints more fool you for not setting up a forward safe rallying point. ________________ What you do is you store up the rage, let it fester while you gain strength, then use it to gank those weaker than you... and so the circle of life is complete
Cryten Jones Gallente Eldritch Storm	Posted - 2006.11.16 12:05:00 - [51] Originally by: Nicholai Pestot I would have to agree to ships staying in space when you log off. If you end up being forced to log off in enemy space due to time constraints more fool you for not setting up a forward safe rallying point. When you or you corp looses a full Freighter to this be sure to remember you words! I know what you are saying and from a reality point of view I agree but there is no way to detect connection drops vs. pulling the CAT5 out so it's just not workable. The petition system would explode. -CJ
Aralis Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 12:19:00 - [52] Of course login traps are grotesquely unfair. And one of the ops suggestions or some of the other good ideas in this thread would fix it. However there is an assumption that CCP care about fairness - based on many other cases I think this unfounded. Here is a copy pasted response I got to reporting a log on trap: If you're playing by the rules then you're playing fair and since the log in tactic isn't agains the rules we can't say that these players aren't playing fair and you are free to use it yourself. Make of it what you can. :(
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.11.16 12:41:00 - [53] log in traps also add to the lag another reason to remove
The Enslaver Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:58:00 - [54] Originally by: Treelox Originally by: The Enslaver Simple solution imo... Disallow more than 5 people per minute to log on in space in a system. going to make getting into Jita a pain in the arse, after dt or a reboot. Good. People should be encouraged to spread out a little more; the current jita swarm is getting pathetic. -------- It's great being Amarr, aint it?
The Enslaver Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:59:00 - [55] Originally by: Anonymous Coward Originally by: lillypad yar Let me guess, Was it the Goons or RA? log in traps are pathetic.. At the END of the day, We all play games to have fun and how are we supposed to have fun when our enemys CHEAT Can you please post this again with your LV/V main so I can link to conversation logs of your alliance mates giving orders to purposefully crash nodes? Can you please post this again with your Goon/RA main so I can link to TS recordings of your alliance leaders giving orders to purposefully crash nodes? -------- It's great being Amarr, aint it?
Drake Mezcal eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:54:00 - [56] Come on folks. Lets keep the politics out of this thread. All i want is suggestions and ideas, Opinions and thoughs on the subject. I also want CCP to sort this problem out. Still waiting for some official imput. pretty please. I want this to be the thread that encourages a bit of progress.
Arben Decota	Posted - 2006.11.16 18:52:00 - [57] Personally i think the idea of... If you are logged off in space for longer than 15 minutes, when you log back on you appear in a random safespot and cannot lock anything for 3 minutes I dont see why this couldnt be implemented,
Billykid	Posted - 2006.11.16 21:32:00 - [58] I guess i dont like th idea of them just letting people do it.
Zen Takore Gallente Adult Entertainment Enterprises	Posted - 2006.11.16 23:05:00 - [59] Originally by: Beef Hardslab I think if you log off in an enemy's sovereign space (hell not even an enemy - say someone with whom you are NOT blue), there should be an increasing chance of logging back in to a pod per time spent logged off there. 5-10% chance per 24 hours spent logged off in their sovereign space. Haha I liked this one, it made me laugh. Seriously though, get real. ----- Boyakasha!
Zen Takore Gallente Adult Entertainment Enterprises	Posted - 2006.11.16 23:18:00 - [60] Originally by: Arben Decota Personally i think the idea of... If you are logged off in space for longer than 15 minutes, when you log back on you appear in a random safespot and cannot lock anything for 3 minutes I dont see why this couldnt be implemented, Assuming you just want to log in and play and have to wait 3 minutes before locking is insane. Why not just stop people logging in for 3 minutes after logging out, but then this penalises those who have dropouts. ----- Boyakasha!

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