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Polinus
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Posted - 2006.11.16 16:42:00 -
[91]
 Originally by: Traidor Disloyal
Originally by: Polinus
And i noticed most advices are to use deplorable game exploit tatics like alts and instas. Game was not made to be played that way. It should not be needed to game teh game to play it. That is pure incompetence on game design.
If the game allows it and the DEVs have said it is not an exploit then it is fair to use. Instas are fair to use. Alts are fair to use.
I have an alt that lives in a 0.3 system and has lost a Rupture, a Badger, and been podded in the past three days. It aint that bad. You keep your eyes open and have safe spots and insta jumps from those SSs to the gates and you will have a decent chance. You ignore the advice that has been given to you and you will have a very unfun time in this game.
If you want to keep playing the way you are then you will get screwed. Have fun in game.
the poitn is from using instas exploit to using logoff is a very short distance.. and if I am forced to use one i WILL use the other. That is why I won't use instas.
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Traidor Disloyal
Minmatar
Titurius Sabinus
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Posted - 2006.11.16 16:59:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Polinus
the poitn is from using instas exploit to using logoff is a very short distance.. and if I am forced to use one i WILL use the other. That is why I won't use instas.
I have no problem with instas. The logoff thing I look at has this: people are afraid to lose things they can not aford to replace, thus they log off because it is the easiest way of getting out the the situation they find themselves in.
I don't like logoffs. I don't mind running for a station when outnumbered/outgunned. I've done it before and I will do it again. That is one reason the station is there.
But loging off can be viewed the same way by some. Both are attempting get oneself out of a very sticky situation. I will not condem people to the Pits of Hell just cause they log off. If they ever do it to me when they are the target I'll get ****ed and place em in the addressbook and look for em when they log on later.
After all it is just a game that I am suppose to use for relaxation and enjoyment.
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Gone'Postal
Minmatar
LuthorCorp Combat Division
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Posted - 2006.11.16 17:04:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Polinus
My whole corps is too weak to help
This is your problem.
Not every corp is strong enough to do some things in eve. he should not have to join a corp strong enough to do 100% of eve just because his current one is small atm
The man without a face...
The company without a clue. |
Thor Xian
Vertigo One
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2006.11.16 17:09:00 -
[94]
One last thing from me Polinus, I respect you for not wanting to join the weak and lazy 'elite' by not using instas. I have survived low sec and 0.0 for years without them, you can too. It just takes more patience and brain power.
Just as a note, asking CCP to proactively help you just because you are new, simply won't work. Eve stands above other mmos because that is exactly what CCP won't do. In Eve you stand or fall on your own merits.
~Thor Xian, Material Defender
"Victory is the weakness of the enemy."
"It is better to die by my Autocannon, than to live for your Veldspar." |
Agent Li
Galactic Defence Consortium
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Posted - 2006.11.16 17:10:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Thor Xian
One last thing from me Polinus, I respect you for not wanting to join the weak and lazy 'elite' by not using instas. I have survived low sec and 0.0 for years without them, you can too. It just takes more patience and brain power.
Just as a note, asking CCP to proactively help you just because you are new, simply won't work. Eve stands above other mmos because that is exactly what CCP won't do. In Eve you stand or fall on your own merits.
In a very short while, there won't be any instas.
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Polinus
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Posted - 2006.11.16 17:13:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Thor Xian
One last thing from me Polinus, I respect you for not wanting to join the weak and lazy 'elite' by not using instas. I have survived low sec and 0.0 for years without them, you can too. It just takes more patience and brain power.
Just as a note, asking CCP to proactively help you just because you are new, simply won't work. Eve stands above other mmos because that is exactly what CCP won't do. In Eve you stand or fall on your own merits.
its not just help me.. its more about help a new player transition to be more smooth. Very few people have time to spend in game. And if they gonna pay 3 months of game subscription to get pwoned everytime or stay at no fun zone. Lots of them will get bored. I worked ina an MMO that died form that same reason. Evew was lucky to grow fast enough to hold its feet and not have same doom.
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Thor Xian
Vertigo One
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2006.11.16 17:21:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Polinus
Originally by: Thor Xian
One last thing from me Polinus, I respect you for not wanting to join the weak and lazy 'elite' by not using instas. I have survived low sec and 0.0 for years without them, you can too. It just takes more patience and brain power.
Just as a note, asking CCP to proactively help you just because you are new, simply won't work. Eve stands above other mmos because that is exactly what CCP won't do. In Eve you stand or fall on your own merits.
its not just help me.. its more about help a new player transition to be more smooth. Very few people have time to spend in game. And if they gonna pay 3 months of game subscription to get pwoned everytime or stay at no fun zone. Lots of them will get bored. I worked ina an MMO that died form that same reason. Evew was lucky to grow fast enough to hold its feet and not have same doom.
You right, but the solution is to make hi sec more dangerous, not low sec less dangerous.
1.0 100% chance CONCORD will show up
0.9 090% "
0.8 080% "
0.7 070% "
0.6 060% "
0.5 050% "
That may not be the solution, but I think it should matter whether it is a 1.0 or a 0.5 system. The reason the transition to low sec is so abrupt is because you probably entered it through a gateway system (such as Amamake) that is infamous for pirates already. There are other less pirate infested low sec.
~Thor Xian, Material Defender
"Victory is the weakness of the enemy."
"It is better to die by my Autocannon, than to live for your Veldspar." |
Valan
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Posted - 2006.11.16 17:30:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Polinus
its not just help me.. its more about help a new player transition to be more smooth. Very few people have time to spend in game. And if they gonna pay 3 months of game subscription to get pwoned everytime or stay at no fun zone. Lots of them will get bored. I worked ina an MMO that died form that same reason. Evew was lucky to grow fast enough to hold its feet and not have same doom.
I have to disagree with you there. EVE has been around for more than three years and its easier now than its ever been. Population is still growing and 'the sky will fall unless you help the weak' threads have been a feature of the forums since they grace the internet.
I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on.
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Polinus
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Posted - 2006.11.16 17:30:00 -
[99]
Yeahh thet would be a perfect solution , as long as of course some nicer rats are included in 0.5 and 0.6. (up to those 70k isk bounty cruisers)
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Polinus
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Posted - 2006.11.16 17:36:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Valan
Originally by: Polinus
its not just help me.. its more about help a new player transition to be more smooth. Very few people have time to spend in game. And if they gonna pay 3 months of game subscription to get pwoned everytime or stay at no fun zone. Lots of them will get bored. I worked ina an MMO that died form that same reason. Evew was lucky to grow fast enough to hold its feet and not have same doom.
I have to disagree with you there. EVE has been around for more than three years and its easier now than its ever been. Population is still growing and 'the sky will fall unless you help the weak' threads have been a feature of the forums since they grace the internet.
no eve will not fail anymore. Because it is already big. But this thing prevents it from growing even more, and eve was lucky it didnt killed it at its beggining.
EVE wont die now from this issue. But I know 7 guys that worked with me and startedt playing eve
(when i worked on this space MMO www.taikodom.com.br) that quited beacuse exaclty of that steep transition. So we could have a larger influx of players that would keep playing longer than 3 months.
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Trung Trac
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Posted - 2006.11.16 17:40:00 -
[101]
What about impletating a fuction to report pirates in sec space to concord? Or maybe implentate a fuction that concord comes patroling systems where ppl have been pirating after a little while. That would change the ganking tbh. Pirates ganking like these are not looking for good pvp and most of the time not even for isk out of it. They're doing it only to **** ppl off.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Aerial Boundaries Inc.
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.16 17:45:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Valan
Originally by: Polinus
its not just help me.. its more about help a new player transition to be more smooth. Very few people have time to spend in game. And if they gonna pay 3 months of game subscription to get pwoned everytime or stay at no fun zone. Lots of them will get bored. I worked ina an MMO that died form that same reason. Evew was lucky to grow fast enough to hold its feet and not have same doom.
I have to disagree with you there. EVE has been around for more than three years and its easier now than its ever been. Population is still growing and 'the sky will fall unless you help the weak' threads have been a feature of the forums since they grace the internet.
The steep transition weeds out the weak players. I remember when I was going through it. When I started repeatedly losing ships to older players I decided I could either stick with it and do better, or quit and be a whiny carebear. Going through that made me a far better player.
----------
IBTL \o/ |
Snarls McGee
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Posted - 2006.11.16 17:48:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Polinus
the poitn is from using instas exploit to using logoff is a very short distance.. and if I am forced to use one i WILL use the other. That is why I won't use instas.
You make some grandiose claims. I only hope that your MMORPG is filled with players like you.
There have been plenty of non-volitile advice offered and you have scorned each one. YOU don't want to take the time to adapt or learn and instead essentially want the game 'dumbed down' for the lazy.
You are simply too impatient for a game like EVE. Just because you CAN fly a BC doesn't mean you SHOULD. 800k in training and I bet you have no AB/MWD skills. Tactical Shield Manipulation skills? Fuel Conservation? Engineering? Even a 'high and mighty' faction BS is useless without those skills.
If this was a game like DAOC you're basically complaining that you *VOLUNTARILY* took a level 5 player into battle against level 50s in Emain and are asking the devs to put in more NPC Guards to help you.
I have a hard time believing you are the dev of anything if you are so unwilling or unable to adapt to the given game mechanics. You failed to use the map to research the system(s) for pod kills, ship kills, etc. You failed to outfit your ships properly--even after being destroyed once. You failed to have the necessary training that would have helped your survivability. You even decided to go into lowsec space to begin with.. But, in true 'it isn't my fault' mentality, you claim it is a DEV problem.. /boggle
Please tell us what almight MMORPG you do dev work for (it *does* make EVE look like minesweeper, right?) so I know to avoid it.
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Detavi Kade
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Posted - 2006.11.16 17:49:00 -
[104]
Polinus,
After more thought, this is what I think you should have done.
1. Load up your BC with warp stabs or nanos. An AB/mwd will help too.
2. Get your corpmates in frigs. I recommend slasher. Low sig radius and super speed. Executioner works too.
3. Decide on the gate that you will try to make your exit.
4. Have your corpmates be on the other side of the gate.
--Everyone should be in gang--
5. Your corpmates jump in, and stay cloaked. They have 30 seconds or so for this next part.
This part is tricky, but is doable, and isn't even remotely cheating. Have your friend look at the gate, and see if there is a celestial object roughly inline with the gate, behind it.
- if there is, you need to warp your BC to that object. 100km. Then have your friend situate himself about 15km behind the gate, inline with that celestial object. You now can warp to your friend and land on top of the gate.
- if there isn't, it gets trickier. Your friend needs to commmunicate with you on which celestial object you need to be at, and then maneuver his frig to be roughly 15km behind the gate, inline with the celestial object.
If things don't work out, you can probably still warp your BC out before alot of damage occurs to it. Try again if you think you can make it work.
Your friend's frig will probably be destroyed -- no biggie. The object is to get your BC out of there.
The other option is to have a few frigs fitted with ECM. If they can jam the campers long enough for you to MWD/nano your BC out, then you're good to go.
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Polinus
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Posted - 2006.11.16 17:50:00 -
[105]
That is also an option. But it would affect all pirates. I thinbk what we need is soemthingto create a ground where there will be piracy, but mostly low level piracy (like tech 1 cruisers and BC).
Think on something like that. You can walk with a gun in acity.. but can 't use it in public or police gonna get on you (say start shooting at a wall). But outside of city you can carry a gun and use it and no one will pop instantly to stop you even if you kill someone. If I go to countyside carrying a gun i know i am as well armed as any threat I can find.
But no one will get into country side wiht a M1 Abrams Main Battle Tank. If someone does even on remote places, it will be detected and acted upon. SO i don't need to fear being attacked by a Main Battle Tank when I go outside city and far from police.
That is the mid ground I am thinking...
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Scoundrelus
Finite Horizon
The Red Skull
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Posted - 2006.11.16 17:56:00 -
[106]
All I read is the title and I *HAVE* to comment. Is there a nice fluffy side to PvP? When is blowing the shyte out of someone a nice thing to do?
===============================================
And Scoundrelus walked the Forums once again, and all was turned to flame... |
Polinus
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Posted - 2006.11.16 17:56:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Snarls McGee
Originally by: Polinus
the poitn is from using instas exploit to using logoff is a very short distance.. and if I am forced to use one i WILL use the other. That is why I won't use instas.
You make some grandiose claims. I only hope that your MMORPG is filled with players like you.
There have been plenty of non-volitile advice offered and you have scorned each one. YOU don't want to take the time to adapt or learn and instead essentially want the game 'dumbed down' for the lazy.
You are simply too impatient for a game like EVE. Just because you CAN fly a BC doesn't mean you SHOULD. 800k in training and I bet you have no AB/MWD skills. Tactical Shield Manipulation skills? Fuel Conservation? Engineering? Even a 'high and mighty' faction BS is useless without those skills.
If this was a game like DAOC you're basically complaining that you *VOLUNTARILY* took a level 5 player into battle against level 50s in Emain and are asking the devs to put in more NPC Guards to help you.
I have a hard time believing you are the dev of anything if you are so unwilling or unable to adapt to the given game mechanics. You failed to use the map to research the system(s) for pod kills, ship kills, etc. You failed to outfit your ships properly--even after being destroyed once. You failed to have the necessary training that would have helped your survivability. You even decided to go into lowsec space to begin with.. But, in true 'it isn't my fault' mentality, you claim it is a DEV problem.. /boggle
Please tell us what almight MMORPG you do dev work for (it *does* make EVE look like minesweeper, right?) so I know to avoid it.
I worked at an MMO and that is not teh game that makes eve complexity look low. The complex games I work on are flight sims for PC and NAvy. The MMO I worked on (i placed a link before but was deleted by moderation) failed, one of reasons why it tried to copy EVE harsh steep change from secure to hell loose. It was not lucky as EVE and most new players stope playing soon.
Again I am not complaining for myself sicne any change on taht would take a time that I would have several million SP before it comes by. I am just giving my advice to CCP on how hard they are being with new players.
And its exactly because i lost a job in a failed MMO that i have the precise notion that make players adapt to the game is a bad move.
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Polinus
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Posted - 2006.11.16 17:58:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Scoundrelus
All I read is the title and I *HAVE* to comment. Is there a nice fluffy side to PvP? When is blowing the shyte out of someone a nice thing to do?
so please dont post, at least until you read why I wrote that and what I try to acomplish. Until you do that you are not very usefull or desireful here.
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Shinji Seto
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Posted - 2006.11.16 18:01:00 -
[109]
Edited by: Shinji Seto on 16/11/2006 18:36:43
Originally by: Polinus
And my 800k SP character is all on combat skills, cruiser V 4 gunnery 5 medium guns 4 maxed armor skills. So it should be possible to fly a cruiser reasonably.
LOL I have a really hard time believing that polinus is a dev for any game. He had so many options at his disposal to get out of that situation. His failure to see those options, or have enough intuition of game mechanics to get out of that system really makes it hard to believe he makes games for a living. If so I surely will avoid his game. Any one else catch that he claims to have cruiser V. i call BS on this no way to have cruiser v with only 800k SP
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F'nog
Amarr
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.16 18:21:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Polinus
And my 800k SP character is all on combat skills, cruiser V 4 gunnery 5 medium guns 4 maxed armor skills. So it should be possible to fly a cruiser reasonably.
No, it should not be possible to fly a cruiser reasonably with those skills.
What do you have in Electronics, Engineering, Navigation? Also, you can't possibly have 4 maxed armor skills with 800k in skills, as those alone would be over 1 mil minimum.
Good Electronics, and especially Engineering and Nav are essential to any combat pilot's success. Without cap and fitting skills, plus speed and maneuverability you can't use your ship to any sort of good effect. I also notice you don't have any of the Gunnery support skills, which are essential to using your weapons effectively.
You are by no means ready to use anything larger than a frig in low sec and hope to survive.
Originally by: DB Preacher
The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when backdoor bandit is in local.
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Feyd Darkholme
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.16 18:28:00 -
[111]
One thing I've been trying to figure out while reading this thread... What do you imagine that there is in low sec systems that aren't in higher sec that makes low sec this wonderland of fun and rewards? Higher level belt rat spawns? Better ore? TBH one of the problems with low sec is there isn't enough of an incentive to go to lower security (0.4-0.1) systems. I don't want to turn this thread into a debate about that, lord knows there are enough. However I wonder what it is you think you're going to get there that you can't in higher sec? If you want higher level rats than there are in belts in 0.5+ you can just run missions. I'm really curious... 
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Jet Max
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Posted - 2006.11.16 18:37:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Polinus
But... since is a long jump i have to make that traditional capacitor stop at middle. And when i arrive at next gate.. the vagabond is already there waiting... ok.. dead again...
So basicaly you saying, you was in safe spot as in "stop at middle", you knew that the vagabond was chasing you and you still warped to gate? 
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Abbadon Karis
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.16 18:45:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Noluck Ned
I disagree with you.
1. Why are you in a cruiser with 800k sp?
Ehh, 800k just about enough maybe a mil but can pvp just fine at 1m SP in a cruiser. Started myself going out at around that figure pirating and never looked back far more kills then losses and most of those on guys older then me. Just a matter of picking the right targets, having a good fit and just know wtf you are doing.
Then again was in a vexor...Now at 2.5m SP (200k learning hah) halfway to T2 Heavy drones:) Still in a vex and Domi so meh just don't get yourself ganked, dont jump into traps aka play smart.
Anyway in general you can make due at low SP,ehh just put your SP into the right places and spec and stick with it.
When we hang the capatalists, they will sell us the ropes we use. -Josef Stalin |
Shayla Etherodyne
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Posted - 2006.11.16 18:59:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Shadowsword
To the OP: Find yourself a 0.4 system that isn't a chokepoint between high-sec and low-sec/0.0 space, you'll have a lot less pirates camping the gate. Also spend a few days looking at the map (that "show pods destroyed" option), to figure out what is a hot spot and what is a quiet area. Last but not least, is you're around caldari space, go in a region that is less crowded by noobs/afk traders, you'll have less pirates. 
Good suggestion, BTW read that as go in Amarr - Minmatar space. Gallente low sec is a disaster. 
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Dee Ellis
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Posted - 2006.11.16 19:13:00 -
[115]
Look, I'm not surfing in volcanoes' for a reason,
neither should you.
Sig removed does not contain your name, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
-- Never question authority, they can't really handle your cool. |
Shayla Etherodyne
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Posted - 2006.11.16 19:16:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Polinus
I think you all dont get the poitn. That is not a simple whine. Its a critiscism of how EVE dois not contemplate a reasonable time frame on the life of a character. When you are over 2 weeks old. no lvl 1 mission will give you any fun. And you are still too far form lvl 2 missions ( on the rythim I was going it would take 3 months to reach level 2 missions). So no chalange at one point... so you try to find something more fun to do. But there is no.. " a bit more difficult" place to have fun. There is nothing fun in 0.5 and above.. nothing.. until i can unloack level 2 agents.. and I dont want to pay just do do NOT FUN things!!
EVE must insert contents for this level of paying. Cause that is one of reaosn so many accounts are short lived.
For a useful critic, I suspect here is your main error. As some of my corpmates you have run to the biggest ship, without training the auxiliary skills.
I have done level 2 in less than a month and with a frigate. Lost a lot of them but generally I stayed haead. I did 1/2 of the level 2 missions with frigates or destroyers, the rest with a cruiser.
In the meantime I had developed my learning skill and most auxiliary skills to 1-2.
Seein you skill point I dubt you can use effectively an Afterburner, or like one a my corpmates maybe you don't have the skill for an armor repairer. In high sec with a Caldari character it can be secondary, in low sec it is very important. And so on for a lot of skills.
You have spent a lot of skill point to learn medium gun or heavy missiles, but what you have in motion prediction or controlled burst, ecc.?
Those skill seem of little importance, but those little bonus pile up and the first 2 level of every skill cost little SP.
If you don't have the skill to fill it up a bigger ship is only a bigger target, not an advantage
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Detavi Kade
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Posted - 2006.11.16 19:16:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Shayla Etherodyne
Gallente low sec is a disaster.
I beg to differ. Essence is fine for me.
There are no general rules about this. I'm fairly certain that those who have been victimized in amamake would disagree that minmatar region is safe. Each person needs to do their own investigations/exploration, rather than following "accepted" guidelines about safe regions. As soon as a region is deemed safe, carebears will flock there. That will lead to more pirates flocking there. Then that region is no longer safe.
Do your own research, and don't depend on others to simply tell you where IT IS safe.
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Veinfiller
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Posted - 2006.11.16 19:23:00 -
[118]
i fully agree with the OP: the transition between .5 and .4 is *way* to steep. it's either "play the same dumb missions 5 million times" or "die at the hands of a gang of sec -10 pirates as soon as you leave highsec". You could afk in 0.5 while 0.4 is gatecamped by gangs more often than not. high-sec has crap rats, 4/10 plexes at max and ore that isnt worth anything unless mined with a large scale operation. yawn. higher risk, higher profits: fair enough, i can live with that, but there really needs to be a risk for the 0.4-gate-campers, too, when they go hunting for noobs.
i could definitely stand my grounds in many a fair 1v1 situation but so far that situation hasn't arisen: you get either gang-vs-1 or 1v1 where the latter "1" brings his cloaked tackling alt that pins you down first so his main can use more med slots. yeah, right.
i mean, come on, it's amusing that 0.0 is considered to be safer than 0.4, after all we're talking about SECURITY status.
i think the "% chance to get concorded"-approach (perhaps combined with a boost to sentry gun damage and range), making .5 more dangerous and .4 a little safer, would definitely make the game more interesting and lowsec an option for people between 1 month and 6 months of age.
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Harisdrop
Gallente
ClanKillers
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.16 19:23:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Harisdrop on 16/11/2006 19:23:57
Here is the solution:
Nov 29th
You can insta dock and insta jump.
There will no more pirates at the gates since they will all have stabs on and will take longer to target you than for you to align and insta jump the next gate.
Everything will be fine.
Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead
. Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.
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Thor Xian
Vertigo One
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2006.11.16 19:28:00 -
[120]
I can count on one hand the low sec systems that are camped 'more often than not'.
~Thor Xian, Material Defender
"Victory is the weakness of the enemy."
"It is better to die by my Autocannon, than to live for your Veldspar." |
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