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Polinus	Posted - 2006.11.16 09:51:00 - [1] Ok I am really frustrated, in fact yesterday i even cancelled my account, but reactivated this morning again in hope Kali can change a bit of it. Here is the facts that led me to do it and I think that unfortunately they show how CCP does not pay attention on how to make game pleasurable to players of all experience levels. First of all my toon is a 800k SP one rather new but capable of flying cruisers and BC enough to have no fun at safe space with teh miserable fighter rats. I got the last 6 and 1/2 days stuck in same system (0.4) because of gate campers that were holding all exist of system with 4 Battleships/HACS on each gate. They were there every day on the time frame I have to play after work. So i got almost a full week of just sitting and doing NOTHING (no agent to do missions and only 4 belts on system). My whole corps is too weak to help and no one in system as interested on helping. Yesterday was holiday hwere so I was able to play in a different time frame. Ok so I attemped to make a run to move my stuff out of that system. I got my cruiser and took of station... before my screen gets normal again (out of the balc transition) I am already webed and jammed by a Vagabond and die... in few instants after that. Luckly being so close I can dock with pod. I get my other cruiser.. and wait about half on hour until i see that the vagabond docked... so i take off and head to gate (trying to go into safe empire). When i am alsmot jumping the vagabond appears again.. i jump.. and run afst to next gate. But... since is a long jump i have to make that traditional capacitor stop at middle. And when i arrive at next gate.. the vagabond is already there waiting... ok.. dead again... I am already becomming reaaaaly ****ed. And ofcourse... sentries help nothing.. why to put sentires if they cant kill anything but noobs? Later I get my corps help. 4 cruisers and 2 frigates to help get the surviving stuff form 0.4 into empire so i can rebuild some money etc.. after a very lame week of gaming. We start outr journey.. the vaga tries to attack again.. but we were able to drive him off.. it seemed. We continue.. on next jump.... still in a 0.4 system. The vagabond comes again.. but with a fellow pirate in.. a Machariel!! WTF!!! What in hell is a machariel pilot doing killing noobs in 0.4 space? No need to say we are completely vaporized. BUT NOW is the lame part that machariel guy destroy our cans!! he dont even loot.. it kills aour pods and cans just for the pleasure of making our lifes miserable. My account that started with 38 mil isk that week is with less than a 1 and 1/2 million. No fun on having to start all over again. So what is the fun of being able to play with cruisers and BC if you cant use anything bigger than frigate until you are 6 months old? What is the fun of as sson as you leave ZERO danger space (concord space) you get into an area where you are imediately faced with overpowered players? You dont have a mid term. There is only space to the ones that like no dange (0.5+) and ones that are able to deal with machariels pirating! There is no sense on 0.4 to 0.1,.. its all the same thing!! What is teh help on those sentries if they cant kill anything an experienced player use? 0.4 sentries should be able to kill any ship.. and maybe on 0.1 thery should be weak as they are... And HACS, battleships and all ubers ships should Not be allowed above 0.2 space... Now i am stuck in an almost startting game all over again.. very frustrated. Because i have to keep in NO FUN SPACE (0.5>) because tehre is no graduation form 0.4 to 0.0.. there is just a slaughter room where I acnt go to have fun unless I wait 4 more months. :(
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.16 09:57:00 - [2] Originally by: Polinus My whole corps is too weak to help This is your problem. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
wierchas noobhunter Caldari Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 09:57:00 - [3] sry u wont get any ♥ from me u just way to stupid to use game tools to awoid low sec pirats there is lots of empty low sec systems in eve u can stay even wont meet single player for long time and if u want to leave plz do so les players les lag for me ♥ Exekias
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 09:57:00 - [4] Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 16/11/2006 09:58:31 There is no easy mode in eve. Which is how it should be tbh. However there is a fairly easy solution; Ditch the corp and find a good one. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Mangold Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.11.16 09:59:00 - [5] Well, to be fair, you could easily have avoided those losses. The Vagabond would have to tank sentries when he killed you. That is not easy and he cant tank sentries for long. He probably had to warp out right away after your ship popped. So, how could that help you? You need to survive longer to make him bail out. How? You could fit a jammer and jam him. You should had fitted your 2nd cruiser with tanking, webbing and jamming. Undock and let him attack you and then web, jam and scram him and watch the sentry guns do their work. Remember that he's using a +300M ship against your 10M cruiser. If you dont want to fight you could have bought a shuttle and made a run for it to safe space and picked up your cruiser another time.
James Duar Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:01:00 - [6] Losing 38 mill in EVE is really not that bad. I've been down to about 700k ISK in the last two weeks and am now just creeping back up to around 50 mill. But yes, I agree with the sentiment here, find a new corp or get them to find a new star system. Or blow away the pirates enough to send them off. And please please please get yourself some instas.
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:03:00 - [7] I must be the odd one out, because I feel safer in 0.4 and lower than I do in 0.5 and higher. As for the story...get a corp worth a ****. Yes, Sentries are underpowered. And HACs are not uber ships, they just take awhile to kill. Oh and you made a few mistakes. First of all, you didn't leave the 0.4 system asap (never make a living in a gateway system, find one deeper into low sec), you left the station while the Vaga was waiting for you to leave, and your biggest mistake was not being prepared to deal with unfriendly people. Also, 0.5+ is by no means risk free. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender What is your opinion?
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:04:00 - [8] Wow, tbh mate, you shouldn't have really jumped into lower dec til your a little bit older and more experienced. Your corp mates when your new and young usually give you advice on things like this, tips how to survive and use the map to full effect. Jumping into a bc when your so young and inexperienced is just painting a huge bullseye on yourself becasue you need a base amount of skills to usethem effectively. What's the rush, enjoy the missions, go exploring in low sec if you need to but nt in a fat slug of a ship, get insta's ( or wait til kali's no bm needed thingy) . Maybe look for a better corp as well, go on corp ops into low sec, have some fun pvp in inexpensive ships and have a blast. Eve doesn't have an easy mode, if you don't adapt, you die, simple and we all love it for it tbh Let's see who's standing at the end when the dust settle's
Spanker	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:06:00 - [9] Wow, you're certainly getting no sympathy from this lot Personally it's those types of experiences that made me stay with EVE for so long, but not everyone is as masochistic as me I suppose - Shpank
Zarch AlDain Friends of Everyone	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:06:00 - [10] Sounds like you have had a harsh time, and I think some of the other responses are being too rough on you. One thing they are right on though is that if your corp cannot protect you in low sec you need to either stay in high sec or get a better/more experienced corp. It's good that they tried to help you but 2 cruisers and 2 frigates are (as you saw) not really enough vs experienced pirates. Lots of 0.0 alliances are recruiting all the time, and people like goonswarm take low SP members. To be honest I recommend trying level 3 missions for a while and practicing things like instas (although they may become obsolete with Kali) and heading back out to low sec once you have a couple of million SP. Start out in disposable frigates as well and just scout out the area. Zarch AlDain
Polinus	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:07:00 - [11] The problem is not that. The main problem is that I was kept locked in a system unabel to run for 1 week. Every time I tried I got killed. And Players with ridiculowsly powerfull stuff go just grief weak players instaed of going do something interesting. What is the fun of pursuing noobs in 0.4 in a machariel? And yes there ISeasy mode on eve!! That machariel was playing on easy mode. That is the problem the easy mode is only for players that are in game for 3 years! And also there is the ultra easy mode on empire. I don't want an easy mode. I want an AVERAGE mode. Ant reasonable game designer is able to do so. I worked (DEVELOPER) in other MMOs and on that aspect EVE is one of the worst!!! Any reasonable game design tries to keep all the players with chance to have fun. And I don want to play in an uber corps. I ddid that in past with other account and left game becasue tehre was no fun to be on a gagn where you are almost just an spectator... I am in a corps of all sub 2 million SP so we can have fun together on same level.
Laythun Undercover Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:10:00 - [12] There is soo many things wrong with that whine. Hmmm..firstly, if you couldnt deal with the players you shouldnt be there, harsh but fair. secondly i doubt that with 800k sp u could have fit the cruiser in any meaningful way to survive an encounter with an older player in a low sec system. Its tough but thats how eve is, its not easy and its not fair at all. You accepted the risks entering the space, so u must live with the consequences. Anyway ive been in far worse situations, u just have to move on and rebuild, and if your corp isnt strong enough then maybe you should be in that corp? Lastly tanking sentries isnt as easy as u might think and its pretty difficult to pop a bunch of ships and collect all there cans under sentry fire. this is make or break, in a single incident ive lost more than you, but you can either whine about it, or you can learn from it. It seems you've chosen to whine, i suggest next time you learn. Undercover Brothers It's great being Amarr, aint it?Ö
Shadowsword Gallente COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:13:00 - [13] To the OP: Find yourself a 0.4 system that isn't a chokepoint between high-sec and low-sec/0.0 space, you'll have a lot less pirates camping the gate. Also spend a few days looking at the map (that "show pods destroyed" option), to figure out what is a hot spot and what is a quiet area. Last but not least, is you're around caldari space, go in a region that is less crowded by noobs/afk traders, you'll have less pirates. ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types.
Polinus	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:15:00 - [14] I think you all dont get the poitn. That is not a simple whine. Its a critiscism of how EVE dois not contemplate a reasonable time frame on the life of a character. When you are over 2 weeks old. no lvl 1 mission will give you any fun. And you are still too far form lvl 2 missions ( on the rythim I was going it would take 3 months to reach level 2 missions). So no chalange at one point... so you try to find something more fun to do. But there is no.. " a bit more difficult" place to have fun. There is nothing fun in 0.5 and above.. nothing.. until i can unloack level 2 agents.. and I dont want to pay just do do NOT FUN things!! EVE must insert contents for this level of paying. Cause that is one of reaosn so many accounts are short lived.
Saint Schala OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:15:00 - [15] m8 u were in low sec!! Ill repeat that slowlwy L.O.W S.E.C. this mean low securaty I.E. u may die. Im not trying to be rude but eve is unforgiving. experienced players are always gonna take a pop at noobs jees when i was a nubblet i got popped a lot aswell. 38 mil aint to bad for an 800K sp player jees eve is soo easy to make isk now. ffs even the tutorial gets u 100K isk when i started it got u 10-15K max and i had to grind at fekkin roids for hours to get a bantham lol. suck it up LEARN from this join a good corp if u want a medium risk area try a 0.0 corp. seriousley 0.0 is safer in bits than lowsec. And dont fly ship u cant afford to lose if u fly a 10 mill ship have 10 mill to replace it if u fly a 300mill ship have 300mill to replace it thats a golden rule follow it!!u wont feel quite as bad when u lose the next one. ----------------------------------------------- 23453457 dont ya just hate not knowing the meaning behind a cryptic sig???? 34564556890
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:16:00 - [16] quit youre corp set youre medical clone to an empire station go back to NPC corp until youre at 2-3 mil skillpoints
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:16:00 - [17] Originally by: Polinus The problem is not that. The main problem is that I was kept locked in a system unabel to run for 1 week. Every time I tried I got killed. They had every gate camped? You couldnt fit a setup that could slip passed them? Quote: And Players with ridiculowsly powerfull stuff go just grief weak players instaed of going do something interesting. What is the fun of pursuing noobs in 0.4 in a machariel? "If you run, they have to chase you. It's their way." And Faction BSes are nice...but far from 'ridiculously powerful'. Quote: And yes there ISeasy mode on eve!! That machariel was playing on easy mode. That is the problem the easy mode is only for players that are in game for 3 years! And also there is the ultra easy mode on empire. I have a motto you might like: "If I lose a ship, it was my fault." This one is good too after you setup a ship: "This thing is an explosion that hasn't happened yet." Quote: I don't want an easy mode. I want an AVERAGE mode. Ant reasonable game designer is able to do so. I worked (DEVELOPER) in other MMOs and on that aspect EVE is one of the worst!!! You gave him the kill. And crediting yourself with being a dev in lesser mmos is like saying you are a person who helped ** over the mmo industry...and was proud of it. Quote: Any reasonable game design tries to keep all the players with chance to have fun. Eve gives you all of the tools you need to survive, build, and destroy in the galaxy. Which one you do is also up to you. Quote:** And I don want to play in an uber corps. I ddid that in past with other account and left game becasue tehre was no fun to be on a gagn where you are almost just an spectator... I am in a corps of all sub 2 million SP so we can have fun together on same level. There is no 'same level' in Eve. Unless noobness is a level. I can understand why you wouldn't want to join a good corp...but it doesn't sound like you have ever been in one...so why not give it a shot? ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "Victory is the weakness of the enemy." "It is better to die by my Autocannon, than to live for your Veldspar."
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:17:00 - [18] Originally by: Polinus I think you all dont get the poitn. That is not a simple whine. Its a critiscism of how EVE dois not contemplate a reasonable time frame on the life of a character. When you are over 2 weeks old. no lvl 1 mission will give you any fun. And you are still too far form lvl 2 missions ( on the rythim I was going it would take 3 months to reach level 2 missions). So no chalange at one point... so you try to find something more fun to do. But there is no.. " a bit more difficult" place to have fun. There is nothing fun in 0.5 and above.. nothing.. until i can unloack level 2 agents.. and I dont want to pay just do do NOT FUN things!! EVE must insert contents for this level of paying. Cause that is one of reaosn so many accounts are short lived. Grab a Rifter and go kill players in low sec if you want fun. Dying is going to happen, it's all part of what makes Eve great. You risk something to get something. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "Victory is the weakness of the enemy." "It is better to die by my Autocannon, than to live for your Veldspar."
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:19:00 - [19] Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 16/11/2006 10:22:06 Originally by: Polinus The problem is not that. The main problem is that I was kept locked in a system unabel to run for 1 week. Every time I tried I got killed. Shuttle, Frigate with MWD, setting you clone in a diffrent system. You didnt try hard enough. Originally by: Polinus And Players with ridiculowsly powerfull stuff go just grief weak players instaed of going do something interesting. What is the fun of pursuing noobs in 0.4 in a machariel? First of all, there are no griefers in eve. You got killed in what we like to call, a PVP game. The thing behind a PVP game is that people to to PVP, you know, shoot other people. Originally by: Polinus And yes there ISeasy mode on eve!! That machariel was playing on easy mode. That is the problem the easy mode is only for players that are in game for 3 years! And also there is the ultra easy mode on empire. Right because there arent any people with the same or more SP would just loveee to kill a machariel. Originally by: Polinus I don't want an easy mode. I want an AVERAGE mode. Ant reasonable game designer is able to do so. I worked (DEVELOPER) in other MMOs and on that aspect EVE is one of the worst!!! Any reasonable game design tries to keep all the players with chance to have fun Then you've found the wrong game im afraid. Eve does not cater to the weak who need someone to hold their hand, it caters to whoever is the strongest. At the end of the day, you got yourself in a mess, there where various solution to your problem, you choose a completely diffrent option, which would obviously fail and then you decided to complain on the forums. Things you should have done instead: - Grabbed a shuttle - Grabbed a frigate with MWD - Made instabookmarks before going into low sec - Get your friends to fit something useful. Vagabonds and Machariel are both minmatar ships, guess what? Get some minmatar jammers on them and they cant shoot anyone. All you gotta do now is web and scramble them and they wont go anywhere, hence they will die to sentries. Trying to run out of camped system with a slow ship and whining on the forums wherent on the options list. Originally by: Polinus no lvl 1 mission will give you any fun. And you are still too far form lvl 2 missions ( on the rythim I was going it would take 3 months to reach level 2 missions). So no chalange at one point... so you try to find something more fun to do. But there is no.. " a bit more difficult" place to have fun. There is nothing fun in 0.5 and above.. nothing.. until i can unloack level 2 agents.. and I dont want to pay just do do NOT FUN things!! EVE must insert contents for this level of paying. Cause that is one of reaosn so many accounts are short lived. Level 2 missions arent all that much more difficult then level 1's, with a battlecruiser or hell, reasonably equipped cruiser they will become easy as hell. Theyre not gonna add content to compensate for the lack of player skill or knowledge, this is why joining a corporation with experienced players is much easier, newbies cant help newbies. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:21:00 - [20] I disagree with you. 1. Why are you in a cruiser with 800k sp? 2. There is no compulsory midwarp stop, you need better energy management and warp drive operations skills(among others). 3. If you do some reading of these forums you will see that there are several ways you could have avoided the losses. Instas for the gates would have been most useful for example, not to mention an undocking insta from the station. I can only assume that you didnt take the time to set these up before the system was locked down. 4. It is possible to have a lot of fun in a frigate, a cruiser and above can often be a liability. With your skill levels its an expensive stone around your neck. 5. I am glad your corp showed solidarity in coming to help you, however if they knew their business they would have advised you to try any of the many options you had to escape. 6. I am sorry the guy destroyed your cans too, that is just plain griefing. 7. We want this game to be as tough as nails on everybody, either you will learn and adapt or you will leave. So please dont quit, just start doing some research on one of the many many guides you can find through these forums. Teach your corp to fit their ships to work together and even a few small frigates can kill a vagabond, the machariel might take longer but jamming him means you can get away at least. F4T4L is Recruiting!
Radioactive Babe	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:22:00 - [21] Well Polinus m8, you are entirely correct ... there are many many systems that are permacamped by so called pvp'ers ... in reality they are scum of the earth, massing huge firepower to take down n00bs in cruisers/BC's with pve setups ... as well as that, coming onto this forum is a waste of time because it is crawling with them (what else can you do when you are permacamping some gate waiting for a shuttle to come through) ... their usual answer is find a better corp, because as we all know, pvp corps are always delighted to take <2mil sp players ..... stick with agents in high sec until you can put T2 fittings and take a bunch of friends, it will be easier when Kali comes onstream as the Tier3 BC's are HAC killers ... take those agony unleashed pvp courses and get youself well kitted out and go chasing them with some friends.... they WILL run with their tails between their legs, you might catch a slow one You will never get a good fight out of them, they are just 20+mil sp chars in faction ships and HAC's popping newbs, run for their SS and log if anything decent came along Just dont bother posting here, you'll get flamed (as I will now) to hell and back for daring to complain about lame players/tactics .
Saint Schala OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:22:00 - [22] to the gyy thats gonna take 2 months to get level 2 missions? EH u can do it in a couple of hours if not a day or so. Train social and connections to level 3 badaboom level 2 missions!! and use higher Q agents u wont be farr of level 3s and that will do u a while. ----------------------------------------------- 23453457 dont ya just hate not knowing the meaning behind a cryptic sig???? 34564556890
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:24:00 - [23] Originally by: Noluck Ned 6. I am sorry the guy destroyed your cans too, that is just plain griefing. I disagree with you. It isn't griefing to kill a loot can. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "Victory is the weakness of the enemy." "It is better to die by my Autocannon, than to live for your Veldspar."
Eddie Stobart	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:26:00 - [24] Eve is full of griefers, players who's only purpose in game is to spoil yours. If you can't live with that then I wouldnt bother playing. At weekend I was mining in safe empire in my Hulk when a group of caracals warped in and blew my ship. They gained 0 isk from doing this in fact it cost them 4 caracals & fittings but they know it cost me 500mill and thats why they did it. I have since war decked the corp and the cowards all left and formed another corp so I have war decked that one, chances are I will never get to kill them because they will just keep forming new corps on a daily basis. And a War dec takes 48hrs before you can fight.
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:27:00 - [25] Originally by: Eddie Stobart Eve is full of griefers, players who's only purpose in game is to spoil yours. If you can't live with that then I wouldnt bother playing. At weekend I was mining in safe empire in my Hulk when a group of caracals warped in and blew my ship. They gained 0 isk from doing this in fact it cost them 4 caracals & fittings but they know it cost me 500mill and thats why they did it. I have since war decked the corp and the cowards all left and formed another corp so I have war decked that one, chances are I will never get to kill them because they will just keep forming new corps on a daily basis. And a War dec takes 48hrs before you can fight. Petition them for exploiting the war declaration system. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "Victory is the weakness of the enemy." "It is better to die by my Autocannon, than to live for your Veldspar."
Polinus	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:28:00 - [26] But if i dont find frigate flying fun? I am condeemed to several months of no fun gaming? If there were Cruiser class targets in 0.5 and above I would stay there. If at least I could reach missions where i could face cruiser.. .. but that would take a loong time And I am not bothered when I am jumped by a rupture or a BS on ar interceptor. But a machariel just to destroy the cans is just #&!@#*!@&#!(@!!! And my 800k SP character is all on combat skills, cruiser V 4 gunnery 5 medium guns 4 maxed armor skills. So it should be possible to fly a cruiser reasonably. And what is teh difference on0.4 and 0.1? Why not make the 0.4 sentries much more powerfull?
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:28:00 - [27] Originally by: Radioactive Babe in reality they are scum of the earth, massing huge firepower to take down n00bs in cruisers/BC's with pve setups ... You cant really blame pirates for killing people who are abolutely clueless and prefer whining on the forums over actually doing something against pirates. Originally by: Radioactive Babe as well as that, coming onto this forum is a waste of time because it is crawling with them (what else can you do when you are permacamping some gate waiting for a shuttle to come through) ... their usual answer is find a better corp, because as we all know, pvp corps are always delighted to take <2mil sp players You dont need a PVP corp, you need a corp with people who know something about the game. It doesnt matter how many clueless people you dump in a channel, in the end theyre all still clueless and wont be able to help each other. Originally by: Radioactive Babe take those agony unleashed pvp courses Good advice. Originally by: Radioactive Babe You will never get a good fight out of them, they are just 20+mil sp chars in faction ships and HAC's popping newbs, run for their SS and log if anything decent came along And yet they win? Why is that? Ah thats right, they adapt to their situation. Originally by: Radioactive Babe Just dont bother posting here, you'll get flamed (as I will now) to hell and back for daring to complain about lame players/tactics Youre not getting flamed for daring to complain, youre getting flamed because you want to see game mechanics changed to make the game easier for you. Instead of doing what the rest of us, adapting to the situation around us, as one is supposed to with this game, you whine on the forums about the game being to hard. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:29:00 - [28] Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 16/11/2006 10:31:13 Originally by: Eddie Stobart I have since war decked the corp and the cowards all left and formed another corp so I have war decked that one, chances are I will never get to kill them because they will just keep forming new corps on a daily basis. And a War dec takes 48hrs before you can fight. Petition, leaving and refoming corps to avoid war decs is an exploit. Originally by: Polinus But if i dont find frigate flying fun? I am condeemed to several months of no fun gaming? If there were Cruiser class targets in 0.5 and above I would stay there. If at least I could reach missions where i could face cruiser.. .. but that would take a loong time And my 800k SP character is all on combat skills, cruiser V 4 gunnery 5 medium guns 4 maxed armor skills. So it should be possible to fly a cruiser reasonably. Missions would the answer for you. Originally by: Polinus And what is teh difference on0.4 and 0.1? Why not make the 0.4 sentries much more powerfull? The number of sentries is the diffrence, it wont matter though. Ever battleship can tank sentries for a limited amount of time. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:32:00 - [29] Originally by: Polinus But if i dont find frigate flying fun? I am condeemed to several months of no fun gaming? If there were Cruiser class targets in 0.5 and above I would stay there. If at least I could reach missions where i could face cruiser.. .. but that would take a loong time And I am not bothered when I am jumped by a rupture or a BS on ar interceptor. But a machariel just to destroy the cans is just #&!@#*!@&#!(@!!! And my 800k SP character is all on combat skills, cruiser V 4 gunnery 5 medium guns 4 maxed armor skills. So it should be possible to fly a cruiser reasonably. And what is teh difference on0.4 and 0.1? Why not make the 0.4 sentries much more powerfull? I dont find frigates all that fun either. But I use them when the situation warrants them. As in traveling, light cargo hauls, and scouting. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "Victory is the weakness of the enemy." "It is better to die by my Autocannon, than to live for your Veldspar."
Zebler Four Horsemen	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:33:00 - [30] Edited by: Zebler on 16/11/2006 10:36:56 Its true that there are many people who just take great pleasure over making someone else's day hell. It is part of human nature I am afraid. Repeatedly killing you when you are trying to move out is just mean. They did not loot your cans because they had worked out you were a new player, and there was nothing that they wanted in your loot. You do need some training, from the description you gave out a few of those losses were avoidable. I can give you a few little pointers that you may/ may not know. - when your ship explodes and you end up in a pod, you cannot jump or dock for 30 seconds. So when that vaga killed you outside the station, you were lucky he did not pod you. - when you undock you are invulnerable for 30 secs, so long as you do nothing. You could have just sat still, not moved, and re-docked - instas, you really must have instas in low sec. Pirates love people who dont use them - make instas with a disposable alt if the gates are camped. It may take repeated attempts, but eventually you will run the out of sec standing/ammo/willpower - make inline safespots between gates, and make sure those spots allow you to scan the gate you are going to - Jammers, dampners and stabs are all good - with current game mechanics, a shuttle on instas is not catchable with just a little practice. - an option would have been to sell your stuff and shuttle out And on a final note to the community, can you really imagine what its going to be like if interdictors (with their bubbles) are allowed into low sec!!?
Sally Caldari R.u.S.H. Red Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:37:00 - [31] As in anything, its experience what counts. I would have ZERO problems solving such situation. Granted, my main char is 3 years old. But my alt have like 200k SP. And still, i have no problem with such situation even in systems like Amamake. You have plenty of ways: 1. Make instas. That useally will guarantee a safe travel for anything with nanofibers. 2. Install MWD with nanofibers. Almost as good as N1 and dont require instas. 3. Use jammers and watch you enemy to die. 4. Fit a couple of 1600 plates. No HAC can tank long enouth to pop that. 5. Just clonejump and let the stuff stay in the camped system for a while - or simply sell it for 5% discount. There a lot of peoples who dont afraid of low sec. All this have nothing to do with SP but everything with actual gaming experience. -- Stories: #1 --
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:38:00 - [32] Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 16/11/2006 10:40:58 Originally by: Zebler And on a final note to the community, can you really imagine what its going to be like if interdictors (with their bubbles) are allowed into low sec!!? Pirates could start killing the more experienced players as well instead of just the people who lack a clue, dont fit stabs and dont have instas? Originally by: Polinus I dont make instas becasue i think they are an exploitation of the game mechanisc. They cause lag and I don't like being part of one of the main problems of eve./quote] You shoot yourself in the foot and then whine that it hurts...? Originally by: Polinus Just amake sentries more powerfull specially on 0.3 and 0.4 and much of the problems would be gone. The thing is, apart form you and a small group of other people, nobody thinks theres a problem. Hence making sentries more powerful couldnt fix a problem that doesnt exist. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Polinus	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:38:00 - [33] I dont make instas becasue i think they are an exploitation of the game mechanisc. They cause lag and I don't like being part of one of the main problems of eve. Just amake sentries more powerfull specially on 0.3 and 0.4 and much of the problems would be gone.
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:40:00 - [34] Originally by: Thor Xian Originally by: Noluck Ned 6. I am sorry the guy destroyed your cans too, that is just plain griefing. I disagree with you. It isn't griefing to kill a loot can. Ok I forgot they were under the sentries at the time. If it was an active wartarget I might have done it myself, however in this scenario it was simply adding insult to injury. Its a valid tactic, but its grief all right.
James Duar Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:46:00 - [35] Originally by: Polinus But if i dont find frigate flying fun? I am condeemed to several months of no fun gaming? If there were Cruiser class targets in 0.5 and above I would stay there. If at least I could reach missions where i could face cruiser.. .. but that would take a loong time Frigates are rad fun, but I know what you mean. The rule applies though - "don't fly what you can't afford to lose". Of course we all break it from time to time and sweat and pump adrenaline when we're on the run. If you want to run missions in high-sec, train the social skills - you'll have Lvl 2's in no time and Lvl 3's shortly after that. Originally by: Polinus And I am not bothered when I am jumped by a rupture or a BS on ar interceptor. But a machariel just to destroy the cans is just #&!@#!@&#!(@!!! Well, they're there, they're yours, they want you gone and frankly it makes a lot of sense. The cans represent assets and assets are king in this game. Stop emphasizing the ship type though - any of the ones you commented on could have probably killed you easily, the point is you haven't taken precautions. Which is fair - I died stupidly a lot too. But I learned. Originally by:* Polinus And my 800k SP character is all on combat skills, cruiser V 4 gunnery 5 medium guns 4 maxed armor skills. So it should be possible to fly a cruiser reasonably. Not necessarily. Your skills are good, but what about fitting skills? You can use what you have proficiently, but possibly not squeeze it all onto a good ship. At any rate, besides the point - if you're outnumbered and outgunned, you're going to lose unless they make some really stupid mistakes. Choose your battles. In closing: asking what you need to do is one thing. Try not to turn this into a general "this game is broken" whine because that is why you'll get flamed.
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:47:00 - [36] Originally by: Polinus Just amake sentries more powerfull specially on 0.3 and 0.4 and much of the problems would be gone. not sure about that - afaik there was a time when there were no sentries - so if a older play could correct me if i'm wrong with the following story: pirates were sitting at a gate and ransoming people who passed them. some carebears started to scream "waaa waaa ebil piwates - we need security - add sentries to the gates!!11!1" ... so sentries got installed. now the pirates couldn't tank long enough to (comfortable) ransom - now they started popping the ships without starting negotations. the same carebears started screaming again "waaa waaa ebil piwates - we need security - make the sentries stronger!!11!1" now some of the pirates thought "wtf?? why should i risk my ship for some 'maybe-fun'?? crap it - i gonna snipe now" ... so they started sniping instead of ransoming at the gates. (the following is my theory) well some of the pirates are still camping the gates close-range. but many don't. why? they joined the game after the changes - and saw that such a "lame" playstyle wasn't frowned upon as it was one of the few really viable ways to make isk as a pirate. they didn't experience it different - so they are used to such a "lame" playstyle because carebears wanted more security. less time to kill a target before getting into a big disadvantage (beeing blobbed by friends of a target, loosing the ship to the sentries) only means - more (blob-)gank ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Hotice	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:53:00 - [37] You have made a few major mistakes: 1. You've gone into low sec. 2. You've gone into low sec. without instant bookmarks. 3. You didn't have warpcore stabs on your cruiser. 4. You didn't put a mwd on your cruiser. 5. you could've created an alter to check the gate before you fly out with your main toon. 6. When it comes to ethics and moral value, you will find least of it in Eve. Trust no one and look around every corner before you turn is the only way to stay safe. Live and learn. Until you are ready for low sec, stay in high sec instead. You think people stays in .5+ empire systems for no reason at all? .4-.1 is more dangerous than 0.0 and shouldn't be taken lightly. Do not go into low sec unless you have no choice at all!
Polinus	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:56:00 - [38] I am not trying to run into a "this game sucks" thread. I work on game development and i am just trying to give waht I think to be a good advice to CCp. They certainly loose a lot of players on the age of 1 2 months because they are stuck on between a no fun world and a no chance world. And i noticed most advices are to use deplorable game exploit tatics like alts and instas. Game was not made to be played that way. It should not be needed to game teh game to play it. That is pure incompetence on game design.
Lorn Yeager Gallente Blessed Souls	Posted - 2006.11.16 10:59:00 - [39] Originally by: Polinus I am not trying to run into a "this game sucks" thread. I work on game development and i am just trying to give waht I think to be a good advice to CCp. They certainly loose a lot of players on the age of 1 2 months because they are stuck on between a no fun world and a no chance world. And i noticed most advices are to use deplorable game exploit tatics like alts and instas. Game was not made to be played that way. It should not be needed to game teh game to play it. That is pure incompetence on game design. TBH, I cant see how CCP could have helped you there. You had all the ways in the world to get out of there. You just didnt either wanted to use them, or knew about them. How can CCP help you there? More "passive security" like sentries arent the answer. Trust me. Begin sig: //-> Its Aloha time! Lorn Yeager Blessed Souls
James Duar Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.11.16 11:01:00 - [40] Originally by: Polinus I am not trying to run into a "this game sucks" thread. I work on game development and i am just trying to give waht I think to be a good advice to CCp. They certainly loose a lot of players on the age of 1 2 months because they are stuck on between a no fun world and a no chance world. And i noticed most advices are to use deplorable game exploit tatics like alts and instas. Game was not made to be played that way. It should not be needed to game teh game to play it. That is pure incompetence on game design. Well adapt or die. And take note that we get warp to 0km in Kali, so instas are definitely not exploitative. Hell, it's not exploitative if EVERYONE is doing it and no one's getting banned coz of it. But like has been said, if you don't like alts then get a corp mate to do it, if you don't like instas...well you can survive without them (did it for a while) but it takes longer, though it is heart poundingly fun the first few times. If you want to live in low-sec though, accept the risks. And the risks are, pirates can and will kick your ass unless you can defend yourself. And if they have battleships well tough, they have battleships - adapt or die. It's been pointed out enough times now that you're not using the mechanics at you're disposal to defend yourself, stop insisting there is thus a problem. The problem as I see it is that CCP really need to update their tutorial extensively. But that's it (well not it, but the big one).
Acama	Posted - 2006.11.16 11:04:00 - [41] Originally by: Polinus Repeated gankage What happened to you is rather unfortunate. EVE, however, is a harsh game, and you're either going to have to stick to safe space for a while (missions are still very lucrative) or become much better at adaptation. You need to learn from this. EVE is a dog-eat-dog world. 1) Be nice to people and try to make a range of friends. Some will hopefully be reasonably powerful and competent. 2) Never put all your eggs in one basket. 3) Learn the game mechanics by practicing in safe space, by reading the forums and by asking other players. There are actually a lot of things you could have done in this situation, and I wish I'd known about it. HACs and battleships do suffer from sentry fire, and can only tank for so long. If only you'd had competent friends in battleships or so there those elite-uber ships could have been webbed and scrammed under the gate guns, and their cans looted multiplying your wealth by many times. Where was this system, by the way? Which part of lowsec has such uber defenders? I'm not sure I even believe your story. If they had so many people with such good stuff holding static positions, chances are sooner or later someone would come along to try to kill them and take their stuff. Please tell me where it was, I'm interested now "WTH was a Machariel pilot doing killing noobs in 0.4?" I don't know this as well. You're sure they weren't unusually effective carebears who mistook your corp for pies? You're sure one of your corpmates didn't do something to **** them off? If only you'd had powerful allies to explain the situation to you would have been able to get people there... admittedly to use you as bait... to pop the vaga and macha and take their stuff, which was no doubt worth tens of times the contents of your wallet. You could have tried to convo them and pay for safe passage. You obviously had a decent amount of game time to get so much ISK. Your best bet is to use some of that time chatting with people, browsing the forums etc to learn stuff about the game, the players, the culture and so on. Also, if you'd had instas you'd have been fine. Why didn't you? Become a bit less weak and people will start to see you as potential allies instead of victims. I'm not giving you isk, advice is far more valuable and there is plenty to be had. EVE can be plenty pleasurable for noobs. Get a frigate gang and zerg those guys when someone eventually pops their HAC/BS and they try a bit of cruiser piracy. Go to lowsec in frigates and practice on the local pirates; that's what they're there for. Sorry for your loss.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.16 11:04:00 - [42] Originally by: Lorn Yeager Easy mode in EVE is 0.5 and above. 0.4 to 0.1 is "average to hard". 0.0 is back to "easy to average". Sorry, but no. 0.1 to 0.4 is as easy as high sec is, or as 0.0 is. The only thing that can make any part of Eve space difficult is the presence of other people. And there's more of those in 0.0 then in low sec. Gatecamps in low sec are a joke, you can walk through blindfolded if so inclined since htey can't use bubbles on you. In 0.0 things get harder. Less stations to run for, bubbles on gates and longer distances to travel. All in all however, I'd say Eve is becoming way too easy. Of course that has to do with having a skilled char and being in BoB, but it's true for us nonetheless. Old blog
Dread Phantom Caldari Project-Chaos	Posted - 2006.11.16 11:04:00 - [43] Originally by: Polinus I am not trying to run into a "this game sucks" thread. I work on game development and i am just trying to give waht I think to be a good advice to CCp. They certainly loose a lot of players on the age of 1 2 months because they are stuck on between a no fun world and a no chance world. And i noticed most advices are to use deplorable game exploit tatics like alts and instas. Game was not made to be played that way. It should not be needed to game teh game to play it. That is pure incompetence on game design. You sound like a dreadfull developer
Polinus	Posted - 2006.11.16 11:16:00 - [44] Edited by: Polinus on 16/11/2006 11:20:39 Game mechanicst exploitation is not something should be used as an argument to support hw well done a game is. CCP must alow things to be done in single account and not using exploits like instas. And i still think CCP should add some learning ground for players that dont want to be carebears but want to learn how tu use a non frigate ship without loosing 10 of them in a single day.There is another thread about making concord have achance of not apearing on 0.5.. tha would do it. I am not good at remembering names but teh camp was in system near bei, when I got killed I was trying to get to bei from dudedra (in middle there is a 0.4 system). The machariel was not in the camp it appeared in a completely different time of day (i was able to play that time because was holiday yesterday). In fact is only the second tiem I've ever seen one.
Tammarr	Posted - 2006.11.16 11:17:00 - [45] Give the man a break =) I see good advice offered but I also see a whole lot of "learn to play" post structured in an insulting/degrading manner. If eve had the following text, written out and with added sounds to realy give out the alert and you still played it... then you welcome to bash(Yes thats what alot of you do if not I'd call it additional grief(Oh look the noob is crying lolzors I got to write something nearly insulting)) Someone who felt trapped in a system, couldnt find a way out and receive so much... "your an insect, you do not matter, go away." intent in the posts... well heres what eve should say: "Welcome to eve, before you proced to install the game there are some things you should do before playing to get a reasonably decent player experience. Go to www.eve-online.com and visit the forum section, now start with spending the coming week reading in the general, ships & modules, missions, crime & punishment forum look for threads about common problems. Read atleast 3 hours per day to get information you'll need to have a chance to play. Once this is finished and you installed eve and made a character you'll be needing to do the in-game tutorial , it will tell you everything you need to know in order to manuver your ship but nothing about what to expect, this you'll already know from your extensive pre-play forum reading." This installation will now lock itself for 7 days, be happy to try installing again then" Thing is, how many of an mmo population reads the forums? And dont give me dung about "everyones that smart" or the likes. Playing a game should not have you need to spend alot of time on a forum in order to learn how to play, the tutorial should cover that. And sure it does, but it dosent cover the things we here consider common knowledge. Once the tutorial includes common knowledge and tips to avoid how people commonly act towards new players etc, the much Needed stuff to know. And oh Polinus, welcome to the wonderful world of eve. Dont mind people telling you 800k is not enough to be in a cruiser, its a game, if they on their first account and new to the game felt that a frigate was fun to fly for the 150 first day of eve because they felt max skills was needed before progressing to a cruiser, heaven forbid you enter a ship without next to perfect skills... sigh* My fingers hurt now =)
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 11:18:00 - [46] Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 16/11/2006 11:19:44 Originally by: Polinus Game mechanicst exploitation is not something should be used as an argument to support hw well done a game is. CCP must alow things to be done in single account and not using exploits like instas. If CCP tells us "Its not what we had in mind when we designed it but we dont consider it an exploit" then it really doesnt matter what you think about it. You are unwilling to use instas and you die because of it, quit whining or start using instas. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Kesslan Osefice Panther's Paw Industries Ltd	Posted - 2006.11.16 11:28:00 - [47] Just an FYI Polinus, but next time your trapped in a system like that that has a cloning facility. Move your clone elsewhere. That way if you get podded. Ok sure your gear gets left behind, but you can allways go back for it later. If your in a player based corp, you can actually move your clone -anywhere- that corp has an office. For example, my corp was setup in Abhan for a while. Now, Abhan itself doesnt have a cloning facility, but some of the nearby systems do. So all I did was shift the clone from that station to the office we had in Abhan. And even if that isn the case, you can generally shift it to another station that DOES have cloning service. You will find however that most 'pirates' really are just a bunch of griefers in a way. But that is simply the reality of EVE, and it's one of the things that makes EVE very different from other MMOs. Personally I've grown to like it myself. And it also never hurts to try to convo the pirates and see if they'll let you out if you pay a ransom or something. There are quite a few 'real' pirates that will not only accept a ransom, but actually honour it. Though there are a few that will take a ransom, then blow up your ship and pod you anyway. That again is just how EVE is, and it's something you should come to expect if you go anywhere that's .4 or lower. So if you find yourself in a situation like that again in the future, honestly your best bet is to try working something out with the pirates first and/or just buying a shuttle, shifting your clone to another station, and making a run for it. Yay we finally have a forum: http://pantherspaw.freehostia.com/
Presidente Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.16 11:29:00 - [48] Originally by: Polinus Edited by: Polinus on 16/11/2006 11:20:39 Game mechanicst exploitation is not something should be used as an argument to support hw well done a game is. CCP must alow things to be done in single account and not using exploits like instas. And i still think CCP should add some learning ground for players that dont want to be carebears but want to learn how tu use a non frigate ship without loosing 10 of them in a single day.There is another thread about making concord have achance of not apearing on 0.5.. tha would do it. I am not good at remembering names but teh camp was in system near bei, when I got killed I was trying to get to bei from dudedra (in middle there is a 0.4 system). The machariel was not in the camp it appeared in a completely different time of day (i was able to play that time because was holiday yesterday). In fact is only the second tiem I've ever seen one. You don't understand the game, right?! Instas is a tactics feature which helps you to survive. You are looking for Arcade Shooter Action and even that is totally frustrating when you have to fight against keyboard and mouse masters. EVE needs patience, experience, skilling, skilling, skilling and team work if you want to be successful in PvP except you are an old strong clone hunting noobs like you all the time. But here's a nice example that even a new alt of a clone with +just½ one year experience starts a successful pirate career by using the mechanics. Total fun and interesting to read. Unfortunately in German only. IMO you are too impatient for a complex game like EVE. Fly strong skilled and run missions first! Presidente Gallente
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 11:38:00 - [49] i <3 eve ---------- IBTL \o/
Polinus	Posted - 2006.11.16 11:45:00 - [50] Originally by: Presidente Gallente Originally by: Polinus Edited by: Polinus on 16/11/2006 11:20:39 Game mechanicst exploitation is not something should be used as an argument to support hw well done a game is. CCP must alow things to be done in single account and not using exploits like instas. And i still think CCP should add some learning ground for players that dont want to be carebears but want to learn how tu use a non frigate ship without loosing 10 of them in a single day.There is another thread about making concord have achance of not apearing on 0.5.. tha would do it. I am not good at remembering names but teh camp was in system near bei, when I got killed I was trying to get to bei from dudedra (in middle there is a 0.4 system). The machariel was not in the camp it appeared in a completely different time of day (i was able to play that time because was holiday yesterday). In fact is only the second tiem I've ever seen one. You don't understand the game, right?! Instas is a tactics feature which helps you to survive. You are looking for Arcade Shooter Action and even that is totally frustrating when you have to fight against keyboard and mouse masters. EVE needs patience, experience, skilling, skilling, skilling and team work if you want to be successful in PvP except you are an old strong clone hunting noobs like you all the time. But here's a nice example that even a new alt of a clone with +just½ one year experience starts a successful pirate career by using the mechanics. Total fun and interesting to read. Unfortunately in German only. IMO you are too impatient for a complex game like EVE. Fly strong skilled and run missions first! Presidente Gallente lol I develop games that make eve look not much more complex than mine sweeper. I am not impatient, but after 1 month i want to start having some fun!!
Demarcus Project Gemini Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 11:49:00 - [51] Originally by: Polinus I think you all dont get the poitn. That is not a simple whine. Its a critiscism of how EVE dois not contemplate a reasonable time frame on the life of a character. When you are over 2 weeks old. no lvl 1 mission will give you any fun. And you are still too far form lvl 2 missions ( on the rythim I was going it would take 3 months to reach level 2 missions). So no chalange at one point... so you try to find something more fun to do. But there is no.. " a bit more difficult" place to have fun. There is nothing fun in 0.5 and above.. nothing.. until i can unloack level 2 agents.. and I dont want to pay just do do NOT FUN things!! EVE must insert contents for this level of paying. Cause that is one of reaosn so many accounts are short lived. Train your connections skill up one level and lvl 2 agents should be unlocked. And instead of whining try reading and learning. And yes, no matter what you want to call it, it is just whining. ------------------------------------- You are all worthless, and weak.
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 11:49:00 - [52] Originally by: Polinus lol I develop games that make eve look not much more complex than mine sweeper. I am not impatient, but after 1 month i want to start having some fun!! These games sound interesting, name some? ---------- IBTL \o/
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 11:50:00 - [53] Originally by: Polinus lol I develop games that make eve look not much more complex than mine sweeper. Me too, though in the weekends i prefer working on my world domination plans. Originally by: Polinus I am not impatient, but after 1 month i want to start having some fun!! Theres only one person that can make eve fun for you. Thats you. If eve's not fun then you're doing something wrong. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Perani	Posted - 2006.11.16 11:52:00 - [54] Originally by: Radioactive Babe Well Polinus m8, you are entirely correct ... there are many many systems that are permacamped by so called pvp'ers ... in reality they are scum of the earth, massing huge firepower to take down n00bs in cruisers/BC's with pve setups ... as well as that, coming onto this forum is a waste of time because it is crawling with them (what else can you do when you are permacamping some gate waiting for a shuttle to come through) ... their usual answer is find a better corp, because as we all know, pvp corps are always delighted to take <2mil sp players ..... stick with agents in high sec until you can put T2 fittings and take a bunch of friends, it will be easier when Kali comes onstream as the Tier3 BC's are HAC killers ... take those agony unleashed pvp courses and get youself well kitted out and go chasing them with some friends.... they WILL run with their tails between their legs, you might catch a slow one You will never get a good fight out of them, they are just 20+mil sp chars in faction ships and HAC's popping newbs, run for their SS and log if anything decent came along Just dont bother posting here, you'll get flamed (as I will now) to hell and back for daring to complain about lame players/tactics . Listen to this post, Polinus. She/he talks good sense. Don't ditch your corp because they aren't already uber, for exactly the reasons you have stated. EVE is full of sociopaths, but there are good people too, although the seeming lack of them on the forums might not be all that reassuring. I think at the end of every tribulation, you need to remind yourself that there are people who grief just to annoying you and somehow derive a sense of satisfaction and self-worth from doing so. You are playing into their hands when you get frustrated so. Please play more detachedly and everything will be A-OK
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 11:57:00 - [55] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 16/11/2006 11:57:41 Originally by: Perani Originally by: Radioactive Babe Well Polinus m8, you are entirely correct ... there are many many systems that are permacamped by so called pvp'ers ... in reality they are scum of the earth, massing huge firepower to take down n00bs in cruisers/BC's with pve setups ... as well as that, coming onto this forum is a waste of time because it is crawling with them (what else can you do when you are permacamping some gate waiting for a shuttle to come through) ... their usual answer is find a better corp, because as we all know, pvp corps are always delighted to take <2mil sp players ..... stick with agents in high sec until you can put T2 fittings and take a bunch of friends, it will be easier when Kali comes onstream as the Tier3 BC's are HAC killers ... take those agony unleashed pvp courses and get youself well kitted out and go chasing them with some friends.... they WILL run with their tails between their legs, you might catch a slow one You will never get a good fight out of them, they are just 20+mil sp chars in faction ships and HAC's popping newbs, run for their SS and log if anything decent came along Just dont bother posting here, you'll get flamed (as I will now) to hell and back for daring to complain about lame players/tactics . Listen to this post, Polinus. She/he talks good sense. Don't ditch your corp because they aren't already uber, for exactly the reasons you have stated. EVE is full of sociopaths, but there are good people too, although the seeming lack of them on the forums might not be all that reassuring. I think at the end of every tribulation, you need to remind yourself that there are people who grief just to annoying you and somehow derive a sense of satisfaction and self-worth from doing so. You are playing into their hands when you get frustrated so. Please play more detachedly and everything will be A-OK Just to add to this, anyone who tries to convince you that other people have fun doing different things to you are lying. All that really matters to them is how you feel, and they want you to feel bad. And for the love of god stay away from the likes of UT2K4. It's full of 'sociopaths'. ---------- IBTL \o/
Voculus E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.11.16 12:00:00 - [56] Polinus, I understand your frustration, and it's true - these people were killing you for the sake of it. It can be maddening, but it's something you have to adapt to. You must always be prepared to fight your way out, or ensure you are able to flee, if you're just traveling. But bear this in mind: Pirates will always get their first few kills against you for free. Each loss should make you a wiser, more prudent player, and the day will come when they're going to have to start paying for their kills. Utilize the same techniques they use on you. Fit webbers and scramblers. Fit ECM on every ship your corp brings to the fight. It's over-powered, and everyone knows it, but it's truly the ultimate tank. Jump in as bait, and have your friends jump in when they attack. Believe me, the Machariel pilot is not invincible. His ship will blow up like anyone else's, and he'll be crying when you strip him of it. Also, I'd bet nearly anything both of these guys are stabbed to the gills, and will likely hang up their expensive ships, come Kali. The odds will be a little less stacked against you, and you'll also have the warp to 0 option.
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 12:34:00 - [57] Originally by: Polinus Originally by: Wotar Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Polinus lol I develop games that make eve look not much more complex than mine sweeper. I am not impatient, but after 1 month i want to start having some fun!! These games sound interesting, name some? I think they may be imaginary games... www.thunder-works.com other is a simulator for the navy so cant give screenshots. What a coincidence I work on flight sims too http://www.pacific-fighters.com/en/home.php?skin=S2. ---------- IBTL \o/
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.16 12:35:00 - [58] Edited by: Plutoinum on 16/11/2006 12:53:52 Originally by: Polinus They certainly loose a lot of players on the age of 1 2 months because they are stuck on between a no fun world and a no chance world. Wonder, what you wanted to find in low sec. that suits your experience level and that you can't do in high sec. You get the same missions in high sec. and if you think about going into the belts, there are no sentries at all. So if pirates don't kill you at the gate, they'll get you in the belts, because you simply lack the experience to deal with it from the beginning. Low sec. is a high risk play ground due to pvp and balanced for players, who know what they are doing. Players, who don't have a clue yet, how to stay alive, will have a hard time. Can't be any different, because EVE is not like this: lvl. 1-20 highsec lvl. 21-40 low sec lvl. 41+ 0.0 Low sec is as much meant as a playground for experienced players as high sec and 0.0 are, low. sec. is just a different environment and offers different playstyles. So you'll have to compete with experienced players once you enter. The good thing in EVE is that skillpoints are not the key to survive. There are two factors that are more important: Player experience and teamwork. As a new player I'd go to low sec. with cheap ships first and explore and get some experience. Learn, what keeps you safe and learn how your opponents think ! Sorry, can't offer you more. You won't hear from me: 'Make low sec. easier !', because low sec is also meant for the experienced scum of the universe, who wants to play the pirate/outlaw. You can't play that in 0.0, because 0.0 is lawless. There are no morals to break in 0.0, it's just shooty shooty and profit. Who wins is right. If you kill everything that's not on your friend list, you are a good 0.0 citizen, so not really interesting for someone, who wants to play the bad boy. Being bad becomes interesting in the middle of the guys, who are the opposite, and that's in empire. cdt/con-loss vs. regular log-out. A proposal ...
Novarei The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2006.11.16 12:39:00 - [59] **** happens ------------- nupo
Presidente Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.16 12:48:00 - [60] Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 16/11/2006 12:51:44 Originally by: Polinus Originally by: Presidente Gallente Originally by: Polinus Edited by: Polinus on 16/11/2006 11:20:39 lol I develop games that make eve look not much more complex than mine sweeper. I am not impatient, but after 1 month i want to start having some fun!! Hmmm ... I am in EVE since 8 months now and even mission run in local spontaneous gangs is super-fun. I really can't follow your problem ... as I said: I have the feeling you don't understand the philosophy of a game like EVE ... probably you should stop skilling WHINING to V before you end up in depression and go on with Unreal or Quake or something like that ... Presidente G.
Polinus	Posted - 2006.11.16 12:51:00 - [61] Edited by: Polinus on 16/11/2006 12:56:14 Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Polinus Originally by: Wotar Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Polinus lol I develop games that make eve look not much more complex than mine sweeper. I am not impatient, but after 1 month i want to start having some fun!! These games sound interesting, name some? I think they may be imaginary games... www.thunder-works.com other is a simulator for the navy so cant give screenshots. What a coincidence I work on flight sims too http://www.pacific-fighters.com/en/home.php?skin=S2. you are allowed to not beleive on whatever you want. But that is where my income comes from and you must be vearyu jeallous to make such a response.So as some here say learn to play.. i say.. learn to live your life.. btw wanna test? Send me an e-mail to [email protected] so i can reply...
Presidente Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:00:00 - [62] Another flightsimulator ... yawn ... Concerning complexity: you are talking about gfx, right? Or does your flightsimulator deal with a MMORPG concept where hundreds of people are involved in a complex dog fight? Sorry, but you are really looking for pure Arcade Action with physics/ai simulation. EVE will be waste of time for you. P.G.
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:01:00 - [63] Originally by: Polinus Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Polinus Originally by: Wotar Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Polinus lol I develop games that make eve look not much more complex than mine sweeper. I am not impatient, but after 1 month i want to start having some fun!! These games sound interesting, name some? I think they may be imaginary games... www.thunder-works.com other is a simulator for the navy so cant give screenshots. What a coincidence I work on flight sims too http://www.pacific-fighters.com/en/home.php?skin=S2. you are allowed to not beleive on whatever you want. But that is where my income comes from and you must be vearyu jeallous to make such a response.So as some here say learn to play.. i say.. learn to live your life.. Oh, you got me. Yes, I am very jealous, that is exactly why I pretended I work on IL-2. I'm amazed you saw through my expert deception, you must be a true student of human nature, as well as a flight sim developer and an authority on Eve. Can you blame me for being jealous of such a paragon of humanity? ---------- IBTL \o/
DarkElf Caldari Euphoria Released	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:03:00 - [64] This post made me chuckle i have to say. why did u not fit a travel setup on ur cruiser if u didn't want to fight. if u had an mwd,nanos and stabs (ok i hate the things but for travel config they are acceptable) and he wouldn't have had a chance. also if u just put a 1600 plate, med rep and hardeners on ur cruiser it would probably not have been able to kill u in time before sentries hurt the vaga enough to warp off. and why shouldn't a machariel pilot be in a 0.4 massacring everything that moves? for many that is great fun and what the game is all about. DE
Jadiin Mindstar Technology United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:07:00 - [65] Originally by: Laythun You accepted the risks entering the space, so u must live with the consequences. I think that this answers the OPs' post adequately.
Mush Room Caldari Svea Rike Tre Kroner	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:08:00 - [66] Originally by: Polinus I dont make instas becasue i think they are an exploitation of the game mechanisc. They cause lag and I don't like being part of one of the main problems of eve. Just amake sentries more powerfull specially on 0.3 and 0.4 and much of the problems would be gone. Then you only have yourself to blame if you venture into unsafe space without instas.
Ace Customer Caldari Pair O' Dice	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:10:00 - [67] Wow, that's a really messed up scenario. I really am sorry to hear that your having a rough time of it. I'd like to make a couple of suggestions, many already made, to help you have some more fun in the game. I would also like you to know I feel you on the corp front, I started playing with a group of RL friends, and our intention from the start was to have our own corp, which we've done. Eve, much like any other game with PvP, has areas which are "safer" than others, and then there are areas that are not not safe. They are honestly dog eat dog areas, and in my experience, limited though it may be, low sec is worse than 0.0. The reason, corps do their own regulating in 0.0, so it's much easier for pirates to operate in low sec. Now I realize that this is all basic information, but what most people are telling you here, in a not so nice way is that at 800K SP you are not ready for the big bad nasty that is low sec. If you look at WoW PvP, and it is thought to be one of the more basic games, if you go into certain zones you are open game, Eve is the same. It may seem boring to stay in Empire, but with higher level missions, mining, and ratting you can keep yourself, and your corp occupied till your ready to go out of the "newbie" zones. You'll make a good deal of money, and some of the missions are kinda cool, and killing the occational Dread spawn will make you bank, or give you a really cool item for your ship. Basically take the game in baby steps, you'll enjoy it more that way anyhow. The game has a huge amount to offer, see what's there, and enjoy the ride. PvP is part of the trip, and it's never fun to get ganked, but you can learn from it, in this case; low sec is not for the light of heart or skills, I'm sure you've got the heart, your clearly passionate about the issue, but only time will get you the skills. If you find yourself completely stuck in the system, try talking to the gate campers, it may not be prideful, but tell em you bit off more than you can chew and you want to go back to Empire, most people will be reasonable, if you are. Also buy a shuttle, don't give them a target. The reasonable is important, I have always tried to compliment anyone I've fought outside of war, they are having fun, and trying to help you do the same. 9 times out of 10 they will give you good advice if your nice as well to help you out. And of course keep a list of the folks that kill you, later you will want to hunt them down and gut them like fish. lol. "You keep using that word.... I do not think it means what you think it means." -The Princess Bride-
Letouk Mernel	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:23:00 - [68] I'll give some advice, too: Quit. This game has nice graphics and some fun activities, but it also has a lot of crap in it. Takes 6+ months to get a decent skill build. T2 gear is mudflated (cost). There are bugs, and the DEV team has somewhat of a reputation for shoddy workmanship (look at the expectations for extended downtime and bugs after every patch, look at this last patch). There's a higher percentage of griefers in this game than others. And the future... with the CCP/WW merger and possibly another MMO in the works, not sure how much EVE will continue to be developed past this Kali expansion. Maybe I'm biased (I'm sure I'll get flamed to hell by those who like the game), but my guess is you might not like the game that much. The parts of it that are nice and addictive for you are keeping you here, but the stuff you hate will keep eating at you till you quit anyway.
Polinus	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:23:00 - [69] Edited by: Polinus on 16/11/2006 13:30:03 Originally by: DarkElf This post made me chuckle i have to say. why did u not fit a travel setup on ur cruiser if u didn't want to fight. if u had an mwd,nanos and stabs (ok i hate the things but for travel config they are acceptable) and he wouldn't have had a chance. also if u just put a 1600 plate, med rep and hardeners on ur cruiser it would probably not have been able to kill u in time before sentries hurt the vaga enough to warp off. and why shouldn't a machariel pilot be in a 0.4 massacring everything that moves? for many that is great fun and what the game is all about. DE how long would take for the sentries to scare a vaagbond away? Just so that I can have a clue of how much harder I need to be. The macchariel seemed to simply ingnore the sentries. btw I forhgot to say.. i had hard time trying to evade system casue i tried to fit a stabber with max speed stuff to carry my valuable loot out. And runned to gat.. was able to click jump before got locked.. but i get.. you at 7th# in queue for jump #!@(#(!@#
Presidente Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:32:00 - [70] Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 16/11/2006 13:34:40 Originally by: Letouk Mernel I'll give some advice, too: Quit. This game has nice graphics and some fun activities, but it also has a lot of crap in it. Takes 6+ months to get a decent skill build. T2 gear is mudflated (cost). There are bugs, and the DEV team has somewhat of a reputation for shoddy workmanship (look at the expectations for extended downtime and bugs after every patch, look at this last patch). There's a higher percentage of griefers in this game than others. And the future... with the CCP/WW merger and possibly another MMO in the works, not sure how much EVE will continue to be developed past this Kali expansion. Maybe I'm biased (I'm sure I'll get flamed to hell by those who like the game), but my guess is you might not like the game that much. The parts of it that are nice and addictive for you are keeping you here, but the stuff you hate will keep eating at you till you quit anyway. Flame started: if that is your opinion why the hell you are still here after over 3,5 years?
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:36:00 - [71] Originally by: Letouk Mernel Takes 6+ months to get a decent skill build. It's a long term game by design. Originally by: Letouk Mernel T2 gear is mudflated (cost) Supply and demand. Originally by: Letouk Mernel There are bugs, and the DEV team has somewhat of a reputation for shoddy workmanship (look at the expectations for extended downtime and bugs after every patch, look at this last patch). I'd call that a reputation for honesty, they know it's never going to go smoothly, and don't hide the fact. Originally by: Letouk Mernel There's a higher percentage of griefers in this game than others. I've never seen or heard of a genuine griefer in all my time in the game or on the forums. Originally by: Letouk Mernel And the future... with the CCP/WW merger and possibly another MMO in the works, not sure how much EVE will continue to be developed past this Kali expansion. Speculation. Originally by: Letouk Mernel Maybe I'm biased (I'm sure I'll get flamed to hell by those who like the game), but my guess is you might not like the game that much. The parts of it that are nice and addictive for you are keeping you here, but the stuff you hate will keep eating at you till you quit anyway. I hope you won't interpret my wtfpwning what you may laughably refer to as 'arguments' above as a flame. ---------- IBTL \o/
Tonkin Black Lance Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:41:00 - [72] dont go in low sec if you cant defend your self. or just wait for kali mate, vagas will become less of a problem which is shame i like them ships just a pain to kill **** stabs. YAY FOR STAB NERF plus the warp to 0 option. but im a pirate aswell so you deserved to get killed for being such a easy target. plus with your buddies comming in to help you get your stuff, means more targets to kill Sig removed, you sig was too ubber to display and ccp had no choice but to nerf it - CCP(NERFBAT)
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:43:00 - [73] Quote: I've never seen or heard of a genuine griefer in all my time in the game or on the forums. LOL at you...
DarkElf Caldari Euphoria Released	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:43:00 - [74] Originally by: Polinus Edited by: Polinus on 16/11/2006 13:30:03 Originally by: DarkElf This post made me chuckle i have to say. why did u not fit a travel setup on ur cruiser if u didn't want to fight. if u had an mwd,nanos and stabs (ok i hate the things but for travel config they are acceptable) and he wouldn't have had a chance. also if u just put a 1600 plate, med rep and hardeners on ur cruiser it would probably not have been able to kill u in time before sentries hurt the vaga enough to warp off. and why shouldn't a machariel pilot be in a 0.4 massacring everything that moves? for many that is great fun and what the game is all about. DE how long would take for the sentries to scare a vaagbond away? Just so that I can have a clue of how much harder I need to be. The macchariel seemed to simply ingnore the sentries. btw I forhgot to say.. i had hard time trying to evade system casue i tried to fit a stabber with max speed stuff to carry my valuable loot out. And runned to gat.. was able to click jump before got locked.. but i get.. you at 7th# in queue for jump #!@(#(!@# ah that sucks. gate queues are quite the annoyance in eve atm. i'm not a vaga pilot myself but i doubt they can tank sentries longer than a minute and the dmg output aint that great off 1. a solid tank cruiser can probably tank 1 long enough to scare him off. also as said before if u fit a couple of ecm multi specs then u can easily make it to the gate in that 20 seconds cycle. And yeah the mach probably could have sat at the gate for quite some time. I believe that there is no problem with gate guns dmg. low sec shouldn't be safe at gates or stations, just a little safer than other areas imo. DE
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:45:00 - [75] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 16/11/2006 13:46:30 Originally by: DarkMatter Quote: I've never seen or heard of a genuine griefer in all my time in the game or on the forums. LOL at you... Bleep bleep searching for reference to evidence presence of griefers in game ..... error ... none found ..... analysing post ...... exceptionally poor flame ....... nothing to support comeback ..... verdict .... disregard ---------- IBTL \o/
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:50:00 - [76] Originally by: Crumplecorn Edited by: Crumplecorn on 16/11/2006 13:46:30 Originally by: DarkMatter Quote: I've never seen or heard of a genuine griefer in all my time in the game or on the forums. LOL at you... Bleep bleep searching for reference to evidence presence of griefers in game ..... error ... none found ..... analysing post ...... exceptionally poor flame ....... nothing to support comeback ..... verdict .... disregard NEVER huh? Sure Maybe it's because your blind or something... And I'm not flaming, just having a discussion.
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:55:00 - [77] Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Crumplecorn Edited by: Crumplecorn on 16/11/2006 13:46:30 Originally by: DarkMatter Quote: I've never seen or heard of a genuine griefer in all my time in the game or on the forums. LOL at you... Bleep bleep searching for reference to evidence presence of griefers in game ..... error ... none found ..... analysing post ...... exceptionally poor flame ....... nothing to support comeback ..... verdict .... disregard NEVER huh? Sure Maybe it's because your blind or something... And I'm not flaming, just having a discussion. Nope, never. I've seen whiners calling everyone in the room a griefer, I've seen the mistaken concept that those of us who like wtfpwning other players regardless of their skill level are griefers, but I have never heard of a genuine grade A example of someone whose enjoyment comes not from the game mechanics but rather from the knowledge that they are making someone miserable. They are probably out there, but I've never seen or heard of one myself. ---------- IBTL \o/
Valan	Posted - 2006.11.16 13:58:00 - [78] I can't believe you made it to a safe spot (not intentionally) and then warped to a gate at 15km where you knew he would be. That's nothing to do with skill points that's brain power unfortuantely. How did you get 38 mill with 800k SP? If its that easy should be easy enough to do it again. I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:01:00 - [79] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Crumplecorn Edited by: Crumplecorn on 16/11/2006 13:46:30 Originally by: DarkMatter Quote: I've never seen or heard of a genuine griefer in all my time in the game or on the forums. LOL at you... Bleep bleep searching for reference to evidence presence of griefers in game ..... error ... none found ..... analysing post ...... exceptionally poor flame ....... nothing to support comeback ..... verdict .... disregard NEVER huh? Sure Maybe it's because your blind or something... And I'm not flaming, just having a discussion. Nope, never. I've seen whiners calling everyone in the room a griefer, I've seen the mistaken concept that those of us who like wtfpwning other players regardless of their skill level are griefers, but I have never heard of a genuine grade A example of someone whose enjoyment comes not from the game mechanics but rather from the knowledge that they are making someone miserable. They are probably out there, but I've never seen or heard of one myself. So did you JIP camp? Ever know anyone who did? Ever hear or see of anyone using a log in trap, something the DEV's have acknowledged as an unintended tactic used by cowards (i.e. griefers)? And a tactic they would like to abolish someday... You just won't open your eyes, cause you want to keep every type of PK'ing there is to stay in-game, and don't want to lose any options... Either you truly have never seen any through lack of playing experirnce, or you're just being ignorant...
Zhelavar Gallente CONsordium Infinate	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:04:00 - [80] Originally by: Polinus I think you all dont get the poitn. That is not a simple whine. Its a critiscism of how EVE dois not contemplate a reasonable time frame on the life of a character. When you are over 2 weeks old. no lvl 1 mission will give you any fun. And you are still too far form lvl 2 missions ( on the rythim I was going it would take 3 months to reach level 2 missions). So no chalange at one point... so you try to find something more fun to do. But there is no.. " a bit more difficult" place to have fun. There is nothing fun in 0.5 and above.. nothing.. until i can unloack level 2 agents.. and I dont want to pay just do do NOT FUN things!! I think your problem is that you are looking for a strictly PvE game in a PvP-focused game. Player vs player actions - the market, politics, corporations, combat - are what the game is based around. Engaging in those gives you plenty to do while ratting. You said you are a MMOG developer, so you understand that in designing a game, especially a niche one, you pick an area and concentrate on it. That means that PvE options in EVE Online are not going to be as abundant as the PvP options are. Originally by: Polinus EVE must insert contents for this level of paying. If the focus was a PvE game, then I would agree that the PvE would need to be ramped up. Have you tried manufacturing? Selling on the market? What are your corp's goals? Maybe get involved in corp activities or move to another corp that offers more. Have you checked the recruitment channesl ingame or the forums here? Check with your corp on their goals. If they don't match what you want from the game, seek out another corp. Keep in mind, though, that PvE is going to seem a bit sparse, because the majority of the game is about player vs player interaction, conflict, and competition. Originally by: Polinus Cause that is one of reaosn so many accounts are short lived. A lot of people bring that up and I will ask you the same question I ask them: Do you have a link to stats indicating that churn in EVE is significantly lower than that of WOW or other MMOGs? ================================================== EVE Vault: ASCN/BoB War - Views of a Few
Agent Li Galactic Defence Consortium	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:05:00 - [81] Gee, I fly a Badger Mk II with three 24 percent cargo extenders and an 10 MN afterburner and a 150mm railgun (just as an ornament). I do nothing but hauling, and that includes to 0.3 systems in Caldari space. Either I'm not worth shooting at (the cargo largely consists of garbage or polytextiles), or I'm somehow immune to being camped. Then again, I'm not flying something I can't afford to lose now and then. In my limited experience, most ganking takes place at 0.0 gates (usually the first one outside of the civilized areas).
Polinus	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:13:00 - [82] Originally by: Zhelavar Originally by: Polinus I think you all dont get the poitn. That is not a simple whine. Its a critiscism of how EVE dois not contemplate a reasonable time frame on the life of a character. When you are over 2 weeks old. no lvl 1 mission will give you any fun. And you are still too far form lvl 2 missions ( on the rythim I was going it would take 3 months to reach level 2 missions). So no chalange at one point... so you try to find something more fun to do. But there is no.. " a bit more difficult" place to have fun. There is nothing fun in 0.5 and above.. nothing.. until i can unloack level 2 agents.. and I dont want to pay just do do NOT FUN things!! I think your problem is that you are looking for a strictly PvE game in a PvP-focused game. Player vs player actions - the market, politics, corporations, combat - are what the game is based around. Engaging in those gives you plenty to do while ratting. You said you are a MMOG developer, so you understand that in designing a game, especially a niche one, you pick an area and concentrate on it. That means that PvE options in EVE Online are not going to be as abundant as the PvP options are. Originally by: Polinus EVE must insert contents for this level of paying. If the focus was a PvE game, then I would agree that the PvE would need to be ramped up. Have you tried manufacturing? Selling on the market? What are your corp's goals? Maybe get involved in corp activities or move to another corp that offers more. Have you checked the recruitment channesl ingame or the forums here? Check with your corp on their goals. If they don't match what you want from the game, seek out another corp. Keep in mind, though, that PvE is going to seem a bit sparse, because the majority of the game is about player vs player interaction, conflict, and competition. Originally by: Polinus Cause that is one of reaosn so many accounts are short lived. A lot of people bring that up and I will ask you the same question I ask them: Do you have a link to stats indicating that churn in EVE is significantly lower than that of WOW or other MMOGs? but this can be acomplished while targeting PVP. The example I gave was. Make 0.5 (or 0.4 whatever) a zone where there is a 10% chance Concord will appear. So we will have piracy there. But no one will use a machariel or Vagabond to do that since they risk too much. There would be an area where people could enjoy "lower level pvp". PIrates tehre would use firgates and cruisers at most. I joined eve at first time with the prospect of PvP but unfortunately you have two options wait half an year.. or be just a tacker and cannon fooder for larger corps. Not fun.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.16 14:15:00 - [83] You are only one month old. Get used to it. Lose your stuffs early will make you stronger in the future. --------- Boryokudan Recruitment. Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!

Huitzilopochtli Tlaloc Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2006.11.16 15:05:00 - [84] I have deleted or snipped out all the off-topic and flamining posts. Please keep this on topic, that is the discussion of low SP people in low sec systems and pirating. It is not a place to discuss other game devlopments, talk about griefing or exploits and ceratinly not a place fot he usuall "the go quit" "go play wow" or "wow what a noob" If i see anymore of that going on in this thread i will issue forum warning. - Thanks Hutch. ____ forum rules \| Email us They call me "Hutch" because my name is well... long Actually we call you "Hutch" because people might get the wrong idea of 'God of Young Boys' - Cortes, sigjacker extrodinaire You can't match my sig-jacking skills Cortes!! Oh and we call you Hutch because your the anti-Hitch - Petwraith

Zhelavar Gallente CONsordium Infinate	Posted - 2006.11.16 15:20:00 - [85] Originally by: Plutoinum Low sec. is a high risk play ground due to pvp and balanced for players, who know what they are doing. Players, who don't have a clue yet, how to stay alive, will have a hard time. Can't be any different, because EVE is not like this: lvl. 1-20 highsec lvl. 21-40 low sec lvl. 41+ 0.0 Low sec is as much meant as a playground for experienced players as high sec and 0.0 are, low. sec. is just a different environment and offers different playstyles. So you'll have to compete with experienced players once you enter. The good thing in EVE is that skillpoints are not the key to survive. There are two factors that are more important: Player experience and teamwork. As a new player I'd go to low sec. with cheap ships first and explore and get some experience. Learn, what keeps you safe and learn how your opponents think ! ^--- that's some good info and good advice. EVE is a whole different ballgame from the standard pop MMOG experience. ================================================== EVE Vault: EVE Fanfest 2006 Coverage
Detavi Kade	Posted - 2006.11.16 15:30:00 - [86] Originally by: Polinus The problem is not that. The main problem is that I was kept locked in a system unabel to run for 1 week. Every time I tried I got killed. You don't start the game in an 0.4 system. You start off in a 1.0 system. No one MADE you go to 0.4. You cannot expect the game to bail you out of tough situations that you put yourself into. My best advice, after you got yourself stuck in an 0.4 system, would be to strip all the modules from your ships, put max insurance on them, and make a run for it. You lose money, yes, but at least you gain alot back that you can rebuild with. Painful lesson. But if loss doesn't occur, people never learn. I'm sorry to hear about your loss, I really am. But please don't go asking for the devs to change a game just because you chose to make some risky moves that didn't pan out.
Polinus	Posted - 2006.11.16 15:38:00 - [87] Originally by: Detavi Kade Originally by: Polinus The problem is not that. The main problem is that I was kept locked in a system unabel to run for 1 week. Every time I tried I got killed. You don't start the game in an 0.4 system. You start off in a 1.0 system. No one MADE you go to 0.4. You cannot expect the game to bail you out of tough situations that you put yourself into. My best advice, after you got yourself stuck in an 0.4 system, would be to strip all the modules from your ships, put max insurance on them, and make a run for it. You lose money, yes, but at least you gain alot back that you can rebuild with. Painful lesson. But if loss doesn't occur, people never learn. I'm sorry to hear about your loss, I really am. But please don't go asking for the devs to change a game just because you chose to make some risky moves that didn't pan out. I am just asking to give players something more, not remove anything. Think on someway to have areas with some dangers where we can learn to face pirates or be pirates etc.. fight bigger than rogue drones targets.. wihout being gate camped by uber ships neither competely vaporized every single time juste because i don't play yest for 6 or more months. I find empire to be uterly boring. Low sec would be perfect for me (and for several people I know) if the threat we would face were Tech 1 ships and so. its nothing so much more complicated to ask to think on an average ground is it? Our corps would love to loose all theirs ships in a fight that we had a hope of winning.. but these fights dont exist on low sec now. And on high sec we find no fun. Just stating that there is a class of players that are not being contempalted by the game design. The "wanna not be carebears..but still don't strong enough"
Jason Marshall Hammer Of Light Astral Wolves	Posted - 2006.11.16 15:56:00 - [88] Originally by: Polinus The problem is not that. The main problem is that I was kept locked in a system unabel to run for 1 week. Every time I tried I got killed. And Players with ridiculowsly powerfull stuff go just grief weak players instaed of going do something interesting. What is the fun of pursuing noobs in 0.4 in a machariel? And yes there ISeasy mode on eve!! That machariel was playing on easy mode. That is the problem the easy mode is only for players that are in game for 3 years! And also there is the ultra easy mode on empire. I don't want an easy mode. I want an AVERAGE mode. Ant reasonable game designer is able to do so. I worked (DEVELOPER) in other MMOs and on that aspect EVE is one of the worst!!! Any reasonable game design tries to keep all the players with chance to have fun. And I don want to play in an uber corps. I ddid that in past with other account and left game becasue tehre was no fun to be on a gagn where you are almost just an spectator... I am in a corps of all sub 2 million SP so we can have fun together on same level. Please eve-mail/convo me in game m8 Tacky lens flares in sigs 4tw!
Traidor Disloyal Minmatar Titurius Sabinus	Posted - 2006.11.16 15:58:00 - [89] Originally by: Polinus And i noticed most advices are to use deplorable game exploit tatics like alts and instas. Game was not made to be played that way. It should not be needed to game teh game to play it. That is pure incompetence on game design. If the game allows it and the DEVs have said it is not an exploit then it is fair to use. Instas are fair to use. Alts are fair to use. I have an alt that lives in a 0.3 system and has lost a Rupture, a Badger, and been podded in the past three days. It aint that bad. You keep your eyes open and have safe spots and insta jumps from those SSs to the gates and you will have a decent chance. You ignore the advice that has been given to you and you will have a very unfun time in this game. If you want to keep playing the way you are then you will get screwed. Have fun in game.
Detavi Kade	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:05:00 - [90] Originally by: Polinus Originally by: Detavi Kade Originally by: Polinus The problem is not that. The main problem is that I was kept locked in a system unabel to run for 1 week. Every time I tried I got killed. You don't start the game in an 0.4 system. You start off in a 1.0 system. No one MADE you go to 0.4. You cannot expect the game to bail you out of tough situations that you put yourself into. My best advice, after you got yourself stuck in an 0.4 system, would be to strip all the modules from your ships, put max insurance on them, and make a run for it. You lose money, yes, but at least you gain alot back that you can rebuild with. Painful lesson. But if loss doesn't occur, people never learn. I'm sorry to hear about your loss, I really am. But please don't go asking for the devs to change a game just because you chose to make some risky moves that didn't pan out. I am just asking to give players something more, not remove anything. Think on someway to have areas with some dangers where we can learn to face pirates or be pirates etc.. fight bigger than rogue drones targets.. wihout being gate camped by uber ships neither competely vaporized every single time juste because i don't play yest for 6 or more months. I find empire to be uterly boring. Low sec would be perfect for me (and for several people I know) if the threat we would face were Tech 1 ships and so. its nothing so much more complicated to ask to think on an average ground is it? Our corps would love to loose all theirs ships in a fight that we had a hope of winning.. but these fights dont exist on low sec now. And on high sec we find no fun. Just stating that there is a class of players that are not being contempalted by the game design. The "wanna not be carebears..but still don't strong enough" Fair enough Polinus. Sorry if I was a bit harsh. Our alliance lives in lowsec and we regulary engage enemies who fly big ships. We have lost machariels/hac's ourselves. =) The area you speak of is lowsec TBH. I have rarely seen a gate camp in the last 6months I've spent in lowsec. You just had the bad luck of finding a commonly camped system. As far as learning about PVP, you just did. You learned a small bit about PVP. The mistake you made is flying ships that you could not stomach to lose. Also slowboating to a gate camp, in a battlecruiser. Not a good idea. Nothing wrong with making those mistakes as long as you pick yourself up and try not to repeat those same mistakes. Also finding a decent corp, or joining your corp into an alliance could help. There are lots of options in this game.
Polinus	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:42:00 - [91] Originally by: Traidor Disloyal Originally by: Polinus And i noticed most advices are to use deplorable game exploit tatics like alts and instas. Game was not made to be played that way. It should not be needed to game teh game to play it. That is pure incompetence on game design. If the game allows it and the DEVs have said it is not an exploit then it is fair to use. Instas are fair to use. Alts are fair to use. I have an alt that lives in a 0.3 system and has lost a Rupture, a Badger, and been podded in the past three days. It aint that bad. You keep your eyes open and have safe spots and insta jumps from those SSs to the gates and you will have a decent chance. You ignore the advice that has been given to you and you will have a very unfun time in this game. If you want to keep playing the way you are then you will get screwed. Have fun in game. the poitn is from using instas exploit to using logoff is a very short distance.. and if I am forced to use one i WILL use the other. That is why I won't use instas.
Traidor Disloyal Minmatar Titurius Sabinus	Posted - 2006.11.16 16:59:00 - [92] Originally by: Polinus the poitn is from using instas exploit to using logoff is a very short distance.. and if I am forced to use one i WILL use the other. That is why I won't use instas. I have no problem with instas. The logoff thing I look at has this: people are afraid to lose things they can not aford to replace, thus they log off because it is the easiest way of getting out the the situation they find themselves in. I don't like logoffs. I don't mind running for a station when outnumbered/outgunned. I've done it before and I will do it again. That is one reason the station is there. But loging off can be viewed the same way by some. Both are attempting get oneself out of a very sticky situation. I will not condem people to the Pits of Hell just cause they log off. If they ever do it to me when they are the target I'll get ****ed and place em in the addressbook and look for em when they log on later. After all it is just a game that I am suppose to use for relaxation and enjoyment.
Gone'Postal Minmatar LuthorCorp Combat Division	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:04:00 - [93] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Polinus My whole corps is too weak to help This is your problem. Not every corp is strong enough to do some things in eve. he should not have to join a corp strong enough to do 100% of eve just because his current one is small atm The man without a face... The company without a clue.
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:09:00 - [94] One last thing from me Polinus, I respect you for not wanting to join the weak and lazy 'elite' by not using instas. I have survived low sec and 0.0 for years without them, you can too. It just takes more patience and brain power. Just as a note, asking CCP to proactively help you just because you are new, simply won't work. Eve stands above other mmos because that is exactly what CCP won't do. In Eve you stand or fall on your own merits. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "Victory is the weakness of the enemy." "It is better to die by my Autocannon, than to live for your Veldspar."
Agent Li Galactic Defence Consortium	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:10:00 - [95] Originally by: Thor Xian One last thing from me Polinus, I respect you for not wanting to join the weak and lazy 'elite' by not using instas. I have survived low sec and 0.0 for years without them, you can too. It just takes more patience and brain power. Just as a note, asking CCP to proactively help you just because you are new, simply won't work. Eve stands above other mmos because that is exactly what CCP won't do. In Eve you stand or fall on your own merits. In a very short while, there won't be any instas.
Polinus	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:13:00 - [96] Originally by: Thor Xian One last thing from me Polinus, I respect you for not wanting to join the weak and lazy 'elite' by not using instas. I have survived low sec and 0.0 for years without them, you can too. It just takes more patience and brain power. Just as a note, asking CCP to proactively help you just because you are new, simply won't work. Eve stands above other mmos because that is exactly what CCP won't do. In Eve you stand or fall on your own merits. its not just help me.. its more about help a new player transition to be more smooth. Very few people have time to spend in game. And if they gonna pay 3 months of game subscription to get pwoned everytime or stay at no fun zone. Lots of them will get bored. I worked ina an MMO that died form that same reason. Evew was lucky to grow fast enough to hold its feet and not have same doom.
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:21:00 - [97] Originally by: Polinus Originally by: Thor Xian One last thing from me Polinus, I respect you for not wanting to join the weak and lazy 'elite' by not using instas. I have survived low sec and 0.0 for years without them, you can too. It just takes more patience and brain power. Just as a note, asking CCP to proactively help you just because you are new, simply won't work. Eve stands above other mmos because that is exactly what CCP won't do. In Eve you stand or fall on your own merits. its not just help me.. its more about help a new player transition to be more smooth. Very few people have time to spend in game. And if they gonna pay 3 months of game subscription to get pwoned everytime or stay at no fun zone. Lots of them will get bored. I worked ina an MMO that died form that same reason. Evew was lucky to grow fast enough to hold its feet and not have same doom. You right, but the solution is to make hi sec more dangerous, not low sec less dangerous. 1.0 100% chance CONCORD will show up 0.9 090% " 0.8 080% " 0.7 070% " 0.6 060% " 0.5 050% " That may not be the solution, but I think it should matter whether it is a 1.0 or a 0.5 system. The reason the transition to low sec is so abrupt is because you probably entered it through a gateway system (such as Amamake) that is infamous for pirates already. There are other less pirate infested low sec. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "Victory is the weakness of the enemy." "It is better to die by my Autocannon, than to live for your Veldspar."
Valan	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:30:00 - [98] Originally by: Polinus its not just help me.. its more about help a new player transition to be more smooth. Very few people have time to spend in game. And if they gonna pay 3 months of game subscription to get pwoned everytime or stay at no fun zone. Lots of them will get bored. I worked ina an MMO that died form that same reason. Evew was lucky to grow fast enough to hold its feet and not have same doom. I have to disagree with you there. EVE has been around for more than three years and its easier now than its ever been. Population is still growing and 'the sky will fall unless you help the weak' threads have been a feature of the forums since they grace the internet. I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on.
Polinus	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:30:00 - [99] Yeahh thet would be a perfect solution , as long as of course some nicer rats are included in 0.5 and 0.6. (up to those 70k isk bounty cruisers)
Polinus	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:36:00 - [100] Originally by: Valan Originally by: Polinus its not just help me.. its more about help a new player transition to be more smooth. Very few people have time to spend in game. And if they gonna pay 3 months of game subscription to get pwoned everytime or stay at no fun zone. Lots of them will get bored. I worked ina an MMO that died form that same reason. Evew was lucky to grow fast enough to hold its feet and not have same doom. I have to disagree with you there. EVE has been around for more than three years and its easier now than its ever been. Population is still growing and 'the sky will fall unless you help the weak' threads have been a feature of the forums since they grace the internet. no eve will not fail anymore. Because it is already big. But this thing prevents it from growing even more, and eve was lucky it didnt killed it at its beggining. EVE wont die now from this issue. But I know 7 guys that worked with me and startedt playing eve (when i worked on this space MMO www.taikodom.com.br) that quited beacuse exaclty of that steep transition. So we could have a larger influx of players that would keep playing longer than 3 months.
Trung Trac	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:40:00 - [101] What about impletating a fuction to report pirates in sec space to concord? Or maybe implentate a fuction that concord comes patroling systems where ppl have been pirating after a little while. That would change the ganking tbh. Pirates ganking like these are not looking for good pvp and most of the time not even for isk out of it. They're doing it only to **** ppl off.
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:45:00 - [102] Originally by: Valan Originally by: Polinus its not just help me.. its more about help a new player transition to be more smooth. Very few people have time to spend in game. And if they gonna pay 3 months of game subscription to get pwoned everytime or stay at no fun zone. Lots of them will get bored. I worked ina an MMO that died form that same reason. Evew was lucky to grow fast enough to hold its feet and not have same doom. I have to disagree with you there. EVE has been around for more than three years and its easier now than its ever been. Population is still growing and 'the sky will fall unless you help the weak' threads have been a feature of the forums since they grace the internet. The steep transition weeds out the weak players. I remember when I was going through it. When I started repeatedly losing ships to older players I decided I could either stick with it and do better, or quit and be a whiny carebear. Going through that made me a far better player. ---------- IBTL \o/
Snarls McGee	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:48:00 - [103] Originally by: Polinus the poitn is from using instas exploit to using logoff is a very short distance.. and if I am forced to use one i WILL use the other. That is why I won't use instas. You make some grandiose claims. I only hope that your MMORPG is filled with players like you. There have been plenty of non-volitile advice offered and you have scorned each one. YOU don't want to take the time to adapt or learn and instead essentially want the game 'dumbed down' for the lazy. You are simply too impatient for a game like EVE. Just because you CAN fly a BC doesn't mean you SHOULD. 800k in training and I bet you have no AB/MWD skills. Tactical Shield Manipulation skills? Fuel Conservation? Engineering? Even a 'high and mighty' faction BS is useless without those skills. If this was a game like DAOC you're basically complaining that you VOLUNTARILY took a level 5 player into battle against level 50s in Emain and are asking the devs to put in more NPC Guards to help you. I have a hard time believing you are the dev of anything if you are so unwilling or unable to adapt to the given game mechanics. You failed to use the map to research the system(s) for pod kills, ship kills, etc. You failed to outfit your ships properly--even after being destroyed once. You failed to have the necessary training that would have helped your survivability. You even decided to go into lowsec space to begin with.. But, in true 'it isn't my fault' mentality, you claim it is a DEV problem.. /boggle Please tell us what almight MMORPG you do dev work for (it does make EVE look like minesweeper, right?) so I know to avoid it.
Detavi Kade	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:49:00 - [104] Polinus, After more thought, this is what I think you should have done. 1. Load up your BC with warp stabs or nanos. An AB/mwd will help too. 2. Get your corpmates in frigs. I recommend slasher. Low sig radius and super speed. Executioner works too. 3. Decide on the gate that you will try to make your exit. 4. Have your corpmates be on the other side of the gate. --Everyone should be in gang-- 5. Your corpmates jump in, and stay cloaked. They have 30 seconds or so for this next part. This part is tricky, but is doable, and isn't even remotely cheating. Have your friend look at the gate, and see if there is a celestial object roughly inline with the gate, behind it. - if there is, you need to warp your BC to that object. 100km. Then have your friend situate himself about 15km behind the gate, inline with that celestial object. You now can warp to your friend and land on top of the gate. - if there isn't, it gets trickier. Your friend needs to commmunicate with you on which celestial object you need to be at, and then maneuver his frig to be roughly 15km behind the gate, inline with the celestial object. If things don't work out, you can probably still warp your BC out before alot of damage occurs to it. Try again if you think you can make it work. Your friend's frig will probably be destroyed -- no biggie. The object is to get your BC out of there. The other option is to have a few frigs fitted with ECM. If they can jam the campers long enough for you to MWD/nano your BC out, then you're good to go.
Polinus	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:50:00 - [105] That is also an option. But it would affect all pirates. I thinbk what we need is soemthingto create a ground where there will be piracy, but mostly low level piracy (like tech 1 cruisers and BC). Think on something like that. You can walk with a gun in acity.. but can 't use it in public or police gonna get on you (say start shooting at a wall). But outside of city you can carry a gun and use it and no one will pop instantly to stop you even if you kill someone. If I go to countyside carrying a gun i know i am as well armed as any threat I can find. But no one will get into country side wiht a M1 Abrams Main Battle Tank. If someone does even on remote places, it will be detected and acted upon. SO i don't need to fear being attacked by a Main Battle Tank when I go outside city and far from police. That is the mid ground I am thinking...
Scoundrelus Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:56:00 - [106] All I read is the title and I HAVE to comment. Is there a nice fluffy side to PvP? When is blowing the shyte out of someone a nice thing to do? =============================================== And Scoundrelus walked the Forums once again, and all was turned to flame...
Polinus	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:56:00 - [107] Originally by: Snarls McGee Originally by: Polinus the poitn is from using instas exploit to using logoff is a very short distance.. and if I am forced to use one i WILL use the other. That is why I won't use instas. You make some grandiose claims. I only hope that your MMORPG is filled with players like you. There have been plenty of non-volitile advice offered and you have scorned each one. YOU don't want to take the time to adapt or learn and instead essentially want the game 'dumbed down' for the lazy. You are simply too impatient for a game like EVE. Just because you CAN fly a BC doesn't mean you SHOULD. 800k in training and I bet you have no AB/MWD skills. Tactical Shield Manipulation skills? Fuel Conservation? Engineering? Even a 'high and mighty' faction BS is useless without those skills. If this was a game like DAOC you're basically complaining that you VOLUNTARILY took a level 5 player into battle against level 50s in Emain and are asking the devs to put in more NPC Guards to help you. I have a hard time believing you are the dev of anything if you are so unwilling or unable to adapt to the given game mechanics. You failed to use the map to research the system(s) for pod kills, ship kills, etc. You failed to outfit your ships properly--even after being destroyed once. You failed to have the necessary training that would have helped your survivability. You even decided to go into lowsec space to begin with.. But, in true 'it isn't my fault' mentality, you claim it is a DEV problem.. /boggle Please tell us what almight MMORPG you do dev work for (it does make EVE look like minesweeper, right?) so I know to avoid it. I worked at an MMO and that is not teh game that makes eve complexity look low. The complex games I work on are flight sims for PC and NAvy. The MMO I worked on (i placed a link before but was deleted by moderation) failed, one of reasons why it tried to copy EVE harsh steep change from secure to hell loose. It was not lucky as EVE and most new players stope playing soon. Again I am not complaining for myself sicne any change on taht would take a time that I would have several million SP before it comes by. I am just giving my advice to CCP on how hard they are being with new players. And its exactly because i lost a job in a failed MMO that i have the precise notion that make players adapt to the game is a bad move.
Polinus	Posted - 2006.11.16 17:58:00 - [108] Originally by: Scoundrelus All I read is the title and I HAVE to comment. Is there a nice fluffy side to PvP? When is blowing the shyte out of someone a nice thing to do? so please dont post, at least until you read why I wrote that and what I try to acomplish. Until you do that you are not very usefull or desireful here.
Shinji Seto	Posted - 2006.11.16 18:01:00 - [109] Edited by: Shinji Seto on 16/11/2006 18:36:43 Originally by: Polinus And my 800k SP character is all on combat skills, cruiser V 4 gunnery 5 medium guns 4 maxed armor skills. So it should be possible to fly a cruiser reasonably. LOL I have a really hard time believing that polinus is a dev for any game. He had so many options at his disposal to get out of that situation. His failure to see those options, or have enough intuition of game mechanics to get out of that system really makes it hard to believe he makes games for a living. If so I surely will avoid his game. Any one else catch that he claims to have cruiser V. i call BS on this no way to have cruiser v with only 800k SP
F'nog Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.16 18:21:00 - [110] Originally by: Polinus And my 800k SP character is all on combat skills, cruiser V 4 gunnery 5 medium guns 4 maxed armor skills. So it should be possible to fly a cruiser reasonably. No, it should not be possible to fly a cruiser reasonably with those skills. What do you have in Electronics, Engineering, Navigation? Also, you can't possibly have 4 maxed armor skills with 800k in skills, as those alone would be over 1 mil minimum. Good Electronics, and especially Engineering and Nav are essential to any combat pilot's success. Without cap and fitting skills, plus speed and maneuverability you can't use your ship to any sort of good effect. I also notice you don't have any of the Gunnery support skills, which are essential to using your weapons effectively. You are by no means ready to use anything larger than a frig in low sec and hope to survive. Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when backdoor bandit is in local.
Feyd Darkholme Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.16 18:28:00 - [111] One thing I've been trying to figure out while reading this thread... What do you imagine that there is in low sec systems that aren't in higher sec that makes low sec this wonderland of fun and rewards? Higher level belt rat spawns? Better ore? TBH one of the problems with low sec is there isn't enough of an incentive to go to lower security (0.4-0.1) systems. I don't want to turn this thread into a debate about that, lord knows there are enough. However I wonder what it is you think you're going to get there that you can't in higher sec? If you want higher level rats than there are in belts in 0.5+ you can just run missions. I'm really curious... ---------------
Jet Max	Posted - 2006.11.16 18:37:00 - [112] Originally by: Polinus But... since is a long jump i have to make that traditional capacitor stop at middle. And when i arrive at next gate.. the vagabond is already there waiting... ok.. dead again... So basicaly you saying, you was in safe spot as in "stop at middle", you knew that the vagabond was chasing you and you still warped to gate?
Abbadon Karis Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.16 18:45:00 - [113] Originally by: Noluck Ned I disagree with you. 1. Why are you in a cruiser with 800k sp? Ehh, 800k just about enough maybe a mil but can pvp just fine at 1m SP in a cruiser. Started myself going out at around that figure pirating and never looked back far more kills then losses and most of those on guys older then me. Just a matter of picking the right targets, having a good fit and just know wtf you are doing. Then again was in a vexor...Now at 2.5m SP (200k learning hah) halfway to T2 Heavy drones:) Still in a vex and Domi so meh just don't get yourself ganked, dont jump into traps aka play smart. Anyway in general you can make due at low SP,ehh just put your SP into the right places and spec and stick with it. When we hang the capatalists, they will sell us the ropes we use. -Josef Stalin
Shayla Etherodyne	Posted - 2006.11.16 18:59:00 - [114] Originally by: Shadowsword To the OP: Find yourself a 0.4 system that isn't a chokepoint between high-sec and low-sec/0.0 space, you'll have a lot less pirates camping the gate. Also spend a few days looking at the map (that "show pods destroyed" option), to figure out what is a hot spot and what is a quiet area. Last but not least, is you're around caldari space, go in a region that is less crowded by noobs/afk traders, you'll have less pirates. Good suggestion, BTW read that as go in Amarr - Minmatar space. Gallente low sec is a disaster.
Dee Ellis	Posted - 2006.11.16 19:13:00 - [115] Look, I'm not surfing in volcanoes' for a reason, neither should you. Sig removed does not contain your name, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus -- Never question authority, they can't really handle your cool.
Shayla Etherodyne	Posted - 2006.11.16 19:16:00 - [116] Originally by: Polinus I think you all dont get the poitn. That is not a simple whine. Its a critiscism of how EVE dois not contemplate a reasonable time frame on the life of a character. When you are over 2 weeks old. no lvl 1 mission will give you any fun. And you are still too far form lvl 2 missions ( on the rythim I was going it would take 3 months to reach level 2 missions). So no chalange at one point... so you try to find something more fun to do. But there is no.. " a bit more difficult" place to have fun. There is nothing fun in 0.5 and above.. nothing.. until i can unloack level 2 agents.. and I dont want to pay just do do NOT FUN things!! EVE must insert contents for this level of paying. Cause that is one of reaosn so many accounts are short lived. For a useful critic, I suspect here is your main error. As some of my corpmates you have run to the biggest ship, without training the auxiliary skills. I have done level 2 in less than a month and with a frigate. Lost a lot of them but generally I stayed haead. I did 1/2 of the level 2 missions with frigates or destroyers, the rest with a cruiser. In the meantime I had developed my learning skill and most auxiliary skills to 1-2. Seein you skill point I dubt you can use effectively an Afterburner, or like one a my corpmates maybe you don't have the skill for an armor repairer. In high sec with a Caldari character it can be secondary, in low sec it is very important. And so on for a lot of skills. You have spent a lot of skill point to learn medium gun or heavy missiles, but what you have in motion prediction or controlled burst, ecc.? Those skill seem of little importance, but those little bonus pile up and the first 2 level of every skill cost little SP. If you don't have the skill to fill it up a bigger ship is only a bigger target, not an advantage
Detavi Kade	Posted - 2006.11.16 19:16:00 - [117] Originally by: Shayla Etherodyne Gallente low sec is a disaster. I beg to differ. Essence is fine for me. There are no general rules about this. I'm fairly certain that those who have been victimized in amamake would disagree that minmatar region is safe. Each person needs to do their own investigations/exploration, rather than following "accepted" guidelines about safe regions. As soon as a region is deemed safe, carebears will flock there. That will lead to more pirates flocking there. Then that region is no longer safe. Do your own research, and don't depend on others to simply tell you where IT IS safe.
Veinfiller	Posted - 2006.11.16 19:23:00 - [118] i fully agree with the OP: the transition between .5 and .4 is way to steep. it's either "play the same dumb missions 5 million times" or "die at the hands of a gang of sec -10 pirates as soon as you leave highsec". You could afk in 0.5 while 0.4 is gatecamped by gangs more often than not. high-sec has crap rats, 4/10 plexes at max and ore that isnt worth anything unless mined with a large scale operation. yawn. higher risk, higher profits: fair enough, i can live with that, but there really needs to be a risk for the 0.4-gate-campers, too, when they go hunting for noobs. i could definitely stand my grounds in many a fair 1v1 situation but so far that situation hasn't arisen: you get either gang-vs-1 or 1v1 where the latter "1" brings his cloaked tackling alt that pins you down first so his main can use more med slots. yeah, right. i mean, come on, it's amusing that 0.0 is considered to be safer than 0.4, after all we're talking about SECURITY status. i think the "% chance to get concorded"-approach (perhaps combined with a boost to sentry gun damage and range), making .5 more dangerous and .4 a little safer, would definitely make the game more interesting and lowsec an option for people between 1 month and 6 months of age.
Harisdrop Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.16 19:23:00 - [119] Edited by: Harisdrop on 16/11/2006 19:23:57 Here is the solution: Nov 29th You can insta dock and insta jump. There will no more pirates at the gates since they will all have stabs on and will take longer to target you than for you to align and insta jump the next gate. Everything will be fine. Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead . Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.11.16 19:28:00 - [120] I can count on one hand the low sec systems that are camped 'more often than not'. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "Victory is the weakness of the enemy." "It is better to die by my Autocannon, than to live for your Veldspar."
Valan	Posted - 2006.11.16 20:26:00 - [121] I wouldn't advise anyone to fly a BS under 5 mill SPs. Some of the others are correct you don't even have enough SPs to fit a cruiser. I can't stress enough how important engineering, navigation and electronics skills are. But besides the skill points thing it was your error in judgement that killed you. You took the wrong decisions. I can fly a hauler in and out of Syndicate at will with an alt that can't even fire a gun. Granted its a bit dicy but if I can get out in a couple of hours on a Friday night then you should have no difficulty with low sec. What you need is to join a corp that you can learn from. I'm not sure if I read correctly but you lost two cruisers and went from 38 mill to 1/2 mill. They're expensive fittings it maybe worth sorting by price on the market. A least you made 40 mill in a month. Took our entire corp 2 weeks to make 50. The game itself isn't complicated its what you can do with the game. I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.16 20:26:00 - [122] Originally by: Thor Xian Originally by: Polinus That may not be the solution, but I think it should matter whether it is a 1.0 or a 0.5 system. Maybe, but I also think it should make a difference if it is a .4 or a .1 The current system makes .4 more dangerous as it is easy to wander into but the negative effects of attacking someone aren't any worse than doing it in .1 No more risk to the attacker, but a lot easier to get attacked. Just a thought... <-----------> MMORPG == Massively Moronic Online Raw Powergaming Grief fests.... http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=426616 LowSec != NoSec
Snake Jankins Minmatar Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.16 20:52:00 - [123] Edited by: Snake Jankins on 16/11/2006 21:23:13 Don't fully understand it, what's so different to when I started 2004/Castor Patch (except the player numbers): One of my first lvl.2 agent was in 0.2 on the Egbinger route into Great Wildlands. Deadspace didn't exist, missions at gates were normal. I've also been ratting in belts, but not on that main route, I was too afraid, but in a quiet 0.3 system one or two jumps away, me first time chaining rats, cruisers rats, with my autocannon rupture. Was quite fun. But I never got ganked ! I was a newbie without a corp, explored EVE solo, noone told me how to play it, and I had just started to fly cruisers, but like I said, I never got ganked there. I checked local a lot and when people like Ginger Magician with his apoc or what it was and 10 mil bounty appeared in local, I ran to station and docked. I knew what a pirate was. Don't know the only difference between 2004 and now is that there are more than twice as many players on the server, I think. So if I was fresh in EVE now, I'd probably move to a low sec system farer away from the main routes and then I think it would be the same quiet low sec life again. I never made the fault to believe that people won't try to gank me, I was cautious from my first day. Before I knew how the sec. levels work, I was even afraid to get ganked in 0.6 (Think the old castor tutorial wasn't really clear about that pirates usually won't kill me in 0.6.) That's why I can't really understand the new players, who are totally careless with their BC in low sec. and get ganked again and again. I started EVE with a healthy paranoia, because the first thing I read about EVE is that there are player pirates. Well, I came from a pvp game, Neocron-1 at that time, where you could gank anyone you like anywhere, except in so called safezones. I got already massacred in the beta a lot by higher players. Later I was in pvp clans, the last controlled half of the map on our server for a year or so. When we were bored, we ganked the opposing clans/factions at high levels spots etc. or raided the headquarter of an enemy faction. ( Was comparable to roaming squads like in EVE, except that outblobbing didn't work so well. You could win a 5 vs. 15, if you played better. Big fun. ) So maybe that's the difference: The first MMORPG I ever played was rough and unforgiving like EVE. You could kill someone and with some luck loot the best gun he had. Guess for most newbies, who come from low risk MMORPGS, EVE is a shock. ___________ 'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.'
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 21:24:00 - [124] Originally by: Polinus lol I develop games that make eve look not much more complex than mine sweeper. You lost All credibility, sympathy and my willingness to dispense useful advice the moment I read that, I pride myself on helping others, and I’ve never asked anyone if I can have there stuff before...... .....and I’m not gonna start now, your stuff is probably tainted. PS: Pretty much ALL the advice you have been given was correct, no matter how condescending the tone of it was, MWD, WCS, Instas, Frigate, Shuttle, Move Clone, Racial ECM, Map info, Bribery, Scouting, Alt char, Sell Stuff, Pay for Escort, Mercs, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc, there are a hundred ways to get out, half of them have been posted here and I only read up to page 3, your unwillingness to learn and adapt was what got you killed. And FYI: instas are not an exploit, EVERYONE would have told you to never go into lowsec without them. --- (.)(.) These are boobs. No need to copy and paste them into your sig, they have already gained world domination. Sorry Bunny.
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.16 21:36:00 - [125] Originally by: Shinji Seto Any one else catch that he claims to have cruiser V. i call BS on this no way to have cruiser v with only 800k SP mmm well spotted Seto, by my maths cruiser V on its OWN is 1,053,725 SP i also, am gonna call BS, and much exaggeration. --- (.)(.) These are boobs. No need to copy and paste them into your sig, they have already gained world domination. Sorry Bunny.
Pestillence Chav-Scum	Posted - 2006.11.16 21:38:00 - [126] Originally by: Alski Originally by: Polinus lol I develop games that make eve look not much more complex than mine sweeper. How come you suck so badly then? If it's so simple why can't you get a handle on it? For you ---->
Herculite Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.16 22:01:00 - [127] Posts like this make me sad because I lose even more faith in the survival of the human race. Just go back to WoW, please. Use your head, read the forums, hell set an alarm and log on late night to get out, but you are obviously lacking the game experiance to deal with other people who are competative. Its not your sps that are getting you killed, its your lack of game experiance that is. You entered no-mans land and expected to trive being so unprepared? You were facing someone with more sps, more money in his ship and knew the game better and expected to live? You should have warped to a planet, you should have cancled your warp, you should have made a SS, there are lots of things that could have saved you and instead you whined. Learn and adapt. I got a kick out of learning to play in low sec and I got chased now and then by 2 year + old players, but if I did get ganked I blamed myself for not being prepared. It takes a lot of sps to be able to kill a vet player, but it doesn't take a lot to be able to escape.
Appalonias	Posted - 2006.11.16 22:10:00 - [128] I am surprised. Did the original poster not read any of the forums ? Or look at the map ? i am currently taking my little fleet (including a big fat indy target) elswhere and to do it I have to navigate a number of low sec systems. Game plan:- 1: Get everything at one station 1 jump away from the badlands 2: Find a nearby medical thing and transfer my clone there 3: Buy a shuttle. (this is a must in my opinion) 4: Read the map. Know as much as you can about kills in the last hour and 24. 5: Practise fast mouse clicks to get you into a stargate. That is, do not use the right mouse click, use the popup left click and know where the options are going to be. 6: Learn the art of Insta's. Practise in a high sec system. 7: Be prepared to die 8: Realise that it is all a learning curve. 9: Go play COD2 when it all gets to much
James Duar Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.11.16 22:20:00 - [129] Does anyone else think a Machariel sitting at a gate seems like a victim waiting to happen anyway? We've got a faction BS, needing to tank sentries, and a group of low SP players with essentially nothing to lose who could frig swarm. Admittedly they'll go poppity pop quickly, but with some good warp in placement I could see this story going the other way rapidly.
Sen Goku Es and Whizz	Posted - 2006.11.16 22:57:00 - [130] Little trick for the OP: If you stop mid warp due to cap drain, and know you are being chased, turn off autopilot, click on set speed to 0. Now you can either warp to another destination or scan ahead and see whats at the gate.
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2006.11.16 23:12:00 - [131] THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON FOR YOU TO BE IN LOW SEC. There, said it. The isk is **** poor for the risk in low sec. Either get into a corp that has good 0.0 access, or stay in high sec. Problem solved.
Jake Devlin	Posted - 2006.11.16 23:30:00 - [132] to the OP... no sympathy from me cos at 800k sp you had more isk than i've ever had :P oh and experienced players might be shooting you for your own good... you gotta learn that lowsec isn't safe at some point.
Synapse Archae Amarr Solarflare Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.11.16 23:55:00 - [133] Edited by: Synapse Archae on 16/11/2006 23:57:16 I think what he's saying is that he agrees he should be in highsec. The problem being that highsec is boring, even for new players. There needs to be an increase in viable content for players like him so that "join a corp that can defend itself" is not their one and only option. Highsec need not be hugely rewarding maybe, but it should at least be enjoyable for players who get rejected by quality corps, but arent noob enough to be still figuring out what the small red crosses in belts are. He's completely right. My advice: For now, your only options are to a) dont leave highsec or b) join a corp that can handle itself versus a few battleships or some lone HACs. ~ ~ ~ http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=349194&page=1 Originally by: The Knight True, in fact...I think it was during the battle of the bulge when we firs
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.17 01:16:00 - [134] If you can't hack it, you can't hack it. Some people weren't made to play games like EVE. Games that require intelligence, and an ability to overcome great obstackles. They buy a game made by Blizzard instead. [ore mongers, recruiting]
Sylper Illysten	Posted - 2006.11.17 01:26:00 - [135] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain First of all, there are no griefers in eve. You got killed in what we like to call, a PVP game. The thing behind a PVP game is that people to to PVP, you know, shoot other people. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA breath HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA The above statement has to be the biggest load of &^%$ I have ever read on these forums, what the hell do you call the 3 year old plus characters who seem to live for teh pleasuer of easy ganks on newbies, and do it repeatedly. They're Griefers plain and simpl, not PvPers, barely even PKer's. They don't do it fo the challenge or profit, none to be had here, they do it to make someone elses life miserable. All these "you should have been more careful, it's your fault" comments are crap, this player was griefed tnaking sentries is not difficult. And people wonder why no one goes to low-sec, simply there is no security in low sec, amya s well make it all 0.0
Dark Kavar	Posted - 2006.11.17 01:46:00 - [136] Edited by: Dark Kavar on 17/11/2006 01:49:07 Originally by: Polinus I am not good at remembering names but teh camp was in system near bei, when I got killed I was trying to get to bei from dudedra (in middle there is a 0.4 system). The machariel was not in the camp it appeared in a completely different time of day (i was able to play that time because was holiday yesterday). In fact is only the second tiem I've ever seen one. Near Bei? I was there last night, and the pirates have some nice ships, but i still think the area around myyhera is worse.... command ships
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.17 01:48:00 - [137] Originally by: Sylper Illysten [A load of dung] You know, destroying another player in combat and *****ing their pod is an exhiliarating experience. You should try it. I like EVE because I can do what the heck I want, and I love it when the mail comes from some whiner about how what I'm doing is "wrong". EVE is a free game. Quit laughing, smell the coffee. [ore mongers, recruiting]
GPerson Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2006.11.17 02:27:00 - [138] Originally by: Sylper Illysten They're Griefers plain and simple, not PvPers, barely even PKer's as both denote seeking some of challenge. Since when? Oh wait, silly me, it must be true because you said so! Not. Unfortunately, there's not a whole lot I can add to the "learn about the game mechanics crowd," but I mostly agree with them. Lets take the vagabond situation. Things to have done differently: 1.) Redocked when you saw the Vagabond. 2.) Warp somewhere besides a gate, which has several other objects in the same general direction, making it hard for him to guess where you wapred to. 3.) When you came out of warp for the cap stop, you could have warped back to the station to try again later(meh). 4.) Additionally, why not simply warp to the gate at, say, 100km or 80km, where the Vagabond most likely won't be expecting you to appear, possibly letting you escape from the gate in one piece. 5.) Stay put where you came out of warp due to lack of cap, scanning the gate repeatedly, watching for whatever is at the gate to leave. Still not fool-proof this one, as what if he jumped, and is waiting for you on the other side? Simple, as you said you were in a gateway system trying to get to a nextdoor high-sec system, you go to the gate and jump, seeing as then you'll be safely in high-sec, and he can't attack you. And if you're lucky, he could've had really crappy sec status, and gotten popped by the faction police + gate guns on the other side, leaving his loot for you. Another thing. If earlier on in the time you were stuck in the system, you were to come to the forums and ask for ideas how to get out and explained you were new to the game, you most likely would have gotten several useful suggestions. Hmm...also, about your confidence in your decently fit cruiser and decent skills, trust me, they most likely aren't. I felt the same exact way about all my cruiser and bigger ships in the beggining. But later, one day, I got in a cruiser, changed the fittings and such, undocked, and it just felt "right." [Useless part of post]Also, instas aren't an exploit at all; in fact, I believe that there is a tutorial on how to make them on the site www.eve-online.com itself somewhere. But knowing myself, my memory is probably screwy and I'm completely wrong.[/Useless part of post] Also, stop lying about your skills, just makes you seem like, well, an idiot, since I can't think of a nicer way to phrase that. . I like my sig... ~~~Sig Stuffs Here~~~ I highly recommend drunken posting. Oh yeah, you just lost The Game
Sharupak	Posted - 2006.11.17 03:04:00 - [139] 800k sp is most likely the main problem. I have 3 million and I am just getting my cruiser to operate properly LOL. I still wouldnt go into lowsec with out some escorts. I am learning that you are a noob for a long time in this game.
Benglada Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.17 03:10:00 - [140] You had every opportunity to get out, you are just to simple minded to think of something. That. Simple. --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
Tyler Lowe Minmatar DROW Org Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.17 04:46:00 - [141] Edited by: Tyler Lowe on 17/11/2006 04:46:28 The OP may be full of it. Maybe the most complex thing he's developed was a polariod. Maybe he's got his skill point totals all wrong, and the last time he remembers checking it was 800k, but now it's more like 2 million. Maybe he's more or less on the level. I don't know him, and I don't toss the word "liar" around casually. However, even if the rest of the story is complete crap, the observation that there is very little to do for a new"ish" player remains. Audri has it right as well. There's no point in lowsec unless you are a pirate looking to prey on people either going to, or coming out of 0.0. But this only serves to strengthen the argument that some sort of content (that more experienced players will not find profitable to camp) should be added in order to keep people at the 2 to 3 month old mark interested. J.A.F.O.
Detavi Kade	Posted - 2006.11.17 04:55:00 - [142] I don't think the problem is in the gap between 0.5 and 0.4. I think the problem is in the gap between the "game mechanics need to protect me" attitude and the "I need to use the game mechanics to protect myself" attitude. Making the leap from one to the other appears impossible for some folks. Something the game probably can't solve.
Ky'var Traven	Posted - 2006.11.17 05:48:00 - [143] Edited by: Ky''var Traven on 17/11/2006 05:48:53 Originally by: Tobias Sjodin You know, destroying another player in combat and ***ing their pod is an exhiliarating experience. You should try it. Obviously you see no difference between a target that can actually shoot back with some chance as opposed to one that has no chance of damaging you, so you're the kind of person who would hunt rabbits with an assault rifle I guess. Originally by:** Tobias Sjodin I like EVE because I can do what the heck I want, and I love it when the mail comes from some whiner about how what I'm doing is "wrong". Of course the fact that you hunted down a newbie in your nice shiny BS just so you could brag about how you educated them in the game by killing them repeatedly, engage in gratuitous self gratification much? Originally by: Tobias Sjodin EVE is a free game. Actually, looking at the charges on my credit card it's not free, it is a sandbox game which is why I like it, but quit trying to pretend that killing newbies is anything but griefing. Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Quit laughing, smell the coffee. How can I help but laugh when people come up with such pathetic excuses to try and justify acting like asshats? Edit: Grr stupid forums, posted with the wrong character....
Sylper Illysten	Posted - 2006.11.17 05:55:00 - [144] Originally by: GPerson Since when? Oh wait, silly me, it must be true because you said so! Not. My opinion is less valid than your because? All PvPers/PKers/Griefers carry on about how they enhance gameplay and how everyone should be forced to come out and PvP, a lot of ** nothing else. If they were looking for targets that ahd some value or gain for them, I'd probably revise my opinion, but repeatedly hunting down ans killing someone,a nd then not even looting them but destroying the cans, thats just being an *** however you try and spin it. Originally by:** GPerson Another thing. If earlier on in the time you were stuck in the system, you were to come to the forums and ask for ideas how to get out and explained you were new to the game, you most likely would have gotten several useful suggestions. More likely several more PvPers (and I use the term losely) would have logged on to try and help kill you before the first (if any) useful suyggestion was made.
Rumorsky Gallente Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.17 06:00:00 - [145] Cry me a river then buil me something to get over it. 5 rules to follow when going in to low sec. 1. Know the low sec... 2. Have local open at all times. 3. Always always always.. Have safepoint in This 0.4 Sys 4. Don't go afk in a blet in 0.4 and 5. always have inst out of the sys, The things that make you jump right on the gate not 15k Away. 5 easy step for not getting ganked in 0.4
Ephemeron Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror	Posted - 2006.11.17 06:08:00 - [146] The OP's entire problem could have been resolved in 1 day by another competent player. All he needed was someone to give him a insta bm. If there were more pirates next system, then whoever brought him the insta should have also given him a couple large extenders or 1600mm plates. It's that simple. The fact that this poor guy wasted a whole week unable to do anything just shows how poorly educated a lot of players are about game tactics.
Valan	Posted - 2006.11.17 07:18:00 - [147] Oh yeh and for the new guys who don't have instas. Log an alt make safe spots in a shuttle in line with the exit of the station. When you get a chance bolt and safe spot. Don't stay in the spot too long. Get your alt to make an insta or put the 15km beyond the gate and jump to them. Only place you will be vulnerable is the other side of the gate. I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on.
Sidrat Flush Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.17 08:02:00 - [148] To the OP, I think I was reading the same situation on the Eve Radio channel, but I might be wrong, it sounded quite familiar though. Anyway, I doubt those are the only ships you're going to lose in your Eve lifetime if you actually enjoy going low sec and being adventurous. I've only read pages 1 and page 5 (I think) before posting a theory I've had a while but thought I would keep to myself because... well. Success in Eve is dependant on communication, education and adaptation, some might say there's more to it than that, and they might be right but those three spheres of generalities cover pretty much everything. They also work with being quite happy and or succesful in real life as well. And here's my situation, I've been playing Eve for 2 years on and off, I think it's a great system with a lot to offer and unique, I've also realised that I haven't actually done MUCH in game terms, either because I get sidetracked easily or whatever reason. I've done the ninja roid raid in .4 belts and the occasional agent mission. Yes I've been caught with my hands in the cookie jar a few times as well, but hey those are the names we remember. I'm not applauding pirates for being annoying and getting in the way of honest work, but nothing (apart from morales, joke!) stopped us from training those particular skills and taking a ruthless attitude as the loading screen appared. Which is why I think EVE mirrors Life. It can be a generalisation, not every corp CEO is a real life company owner or even good at either, but that's their role that they've chosen and who knows. I do know that with this theory being put out in to this type of thread that it will be read and made sense of, and hopefully replied to in a non agressive manner. I hope I've made sense and I wish the OP luck and fortune in his Eve Online character and life. Life is about memories the more the better. Looking for CCP to improve availability of their GTC's, for non card carriers!
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.17 11:11:00 - [149] Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 17/11/2006 11:11:31 Originally by: Tissa Not sure I agree with you there, most of the "0mG!1 i got GREAFED" whines are newbies who get in a BS as fast as possible then wonder why they are sitting in a pod 0.4 seconds after jumping into a 0.4. But there are a few people who deliberately target one player or small corp and make their lives a misery in an attempt to make them quit the game. I prefer to call these people playground bullies rather than greafers. You get bullies everywhere and the same rule applies in eve as when you were at school, go run and tell teacher* or a responsible adult**. Wel i said "little to none", im sure theres a bunch through out eve who kill you in the hopes of ruining your day. But by the end of the day griefers are just a term random clueless carebears use to describe anyone who doesnt let them mine their precious ore in peace. Hell, these carebears are the griefers for spamming our pretty forum with their pointless rabble ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.17 11:21:00 - [150] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Hell, these carebears are the griefers for spamming our pretty forum with their pointless rabble QFT ---------- IBTL \o/
MMXMMX Caldari Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2006.11.17 11:22:00 - [151] Edited by: MMXMMX on 17/11/2006 11:24:26 Originally by: Polinus I think you all dont get the poitn. That is not a simple whine. Its a critiscism of how EVE dois not contemplate a reasonable time frame on the life of a character. When you are over 2 weeks old. no lvl 1 mission will give you any fun. And you are still too far form lvl 2 missions ( on the rythim I was going it would take 3 months to reach level 2 missions). So no chalange at one point... so you try to find something more fun to do. But there is no.. " a bit more difficult" place to have fun. There is nothing fun in 0.5 and above.. nothing.. until i can unloack level 2 agents.. and I dont want to pay just do do NOT FUN things!! EVE must insert contents for this level of paying. Cause that is one of reaosn so many accounts are short lived. Yes . The first 2 months i have don transport missions . While i was doing that i got all leunring books to level 5 after that i dit the advanced leurning books to 4 . After the 8 weeks i went to do level 2 fighter missions with olmost no fighting skilbooks . So that made me leurn the fighting skils a little. The missions where showing me what kind of skils i needed to survive . After that i moved on to level 3 missions . Then i joint a nice corp and went to 0.0 and that was realy hard but also fun . Only shooting a pos or camping a gate 4 hours is realy boring :) O yes and hopping from belt to belt and finding no rats is boring to :) But defanding the space u live in and the station u dock in is fun and going on hunting parties is olso fun . On the moment i do level 4 missions to get some isk to bild some new PVP ships . It wil take u some time this is realy a long time based game . I lost 4 bil isk in 0.9 space so dont feel so bad . Good luck in finding your way . 500 - Internal Error The server was unable to process your request. Support personel has been notified, no further action is needed.
Tissa Minmatar UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.17 11:23:00 - [152] What would help the forums a lot is when you get to the map part on the tutorial a big message flashes up on screen saying Quote: 0.4 and lower. Here be be pirates! You will be killed if you come in here - the ore and rats just ain't worth it. AVOID. The tutorial is good for explaining how to fly your ship but offers up absolutely no practical advice as how to not get it blown up. A "tips" eve mail from ccp to all new characters would help the game a hellava lot me thinks. My views do not represent those of my corp or alliance. (Joined UKC 19/09/06)
Gavin Kineli Frontier Technologies	Posted - 2006.11.17 11:31:00 - [153] I think a lot of you are missing the point. Most people replying here have played the game a while, and we know how it works. This guy has an 800k SP character. Does he know the ins and outs of the game? How to slip past gate campers? Probably not. So rather than be critical and call him a whiner, help this guy out.
James Duar Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.11.17 11:34:00 - [154] This really comes back to "the tutorial doesn't help enough". I can't help but think that what we need is a "'verse tutorial", in which the narrator switches away from Aura's calming voice to that of a gruff middle-aged guy who cynically explains how it is in the EVE universe. Maybe give the player agent like conversation options with them that allow them to ask the obvious questions and hear the even more cynical reply. Example: "This here stargate looks just like any other, but don't let it fool you. That CONCORD warning that pops up understates what lies on the other side. CONCORD don't just not guarantee your protection, they pretty much abandon you. Sentry guns at the gates, at the stations and that's it and don't think they'll save you. Any pirate with half a brain can avoid the sentries long enough to give you a fun clone-ride home. Security ratings do not scale linearly - 1.0 to 0.5 and you're safe - mostly - 0.4 to 0.0 and your open game for anyone, anywhere and they don't care what you're flying. Only got that rookie junker? Great - they don't have to spend so much time blowing it up."
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.17 11:50:00 - [155] Originally by: Gavin Kineli stuff Originally by: James Duar stuff Isn't it funny though how some people learn and adapt, while others come to the forum and whine? ---------- IBTL \o/
Santa Anna	Posted - 2006.11.17 11:55:00 - [156] Originally by: Polinus But if i dont find frigate flying fun? I am condeemed to several months of no fun gaming? If there were Cruiser class targets in 0.5 and above I would stay there. If at least I could reach missions where i could face cruiser.. .. but that would take a loong time It takes less than a week in a destroyer to reach level 2 missions. Do missions for the best available agent, check every couple missions. You can do most level 2 missions with little or no trouble in a destroyer as well. If you can't get to level 2's using a cruiser (and you're actually trying) you're doing something wrong. Quote: And my 800k SP character is all on combat skills, cruiser V 4 gunnery 5 medium guns 4 maxed armor skills. So it should be possible to fly a cruiser reasonably. Either you don't know what these skills are or you're lying. I'm assuming you're saying you have your racial cruiser trained to 4, gunnery to 5, medium guns to 4, hull upgrades to 5, and repair systems to 5, with 800k skill points. Cruiser is a rank 5 skill, so level 4 would cost you about 225000 leaving you 575000 skill points. Gunnery is a rank 1 skill so level 5 would cost you 256000 skill points, leaving you 319,000. Medium guns is a rank 3 skill, which at level 4 set you back around 135,000 skill points, leaving 184,000 skill points. (also requires some other stuff but we'll leave that alone atm) Hull upgrades is a rank 2 skill, which at level 5 costs 512,000 skill points leaving you with -328,000. Repair systems is a rank 1 skill, which at level 5 would cost you 256,000 and set you back to -584,000. Either you don't know which skills you need to have "maxed armor skills" or you're trolling. Even if you have these skills (and really had twice the skill points you claimed to have), you don't seem to have any ewar skills, any targetting skills, any fitting skills, any navigation skills, or any ancillary weapon/weapon upgrade skills. A (true) 100k skill point player could pretty easily destroy your cruiser in a starter frig away from sentry fire because you can't jam or nos them while that 100k player can scram and nos you. Quote: And what is teh difference on0.4 and 0.1? Why not make the 0.4 sentries much more powerfull? Rats and ore in lower security systems is much juicier. The lower you go, the less common the (publicly accessible) stations become and the more poorly defended they are. You aren't really safe in a 1.0 system, though as a competent gank squad would have you in your pod before concord came to your aid. There are also fewer player pirates in 0.1 systems because the players there can generally fight back and/or escape competently. BTW, I very much doubt a coordinated fleet of HACs and faction BS are in system to grief you. In my experience, player pirates are pretty poorly organized and likely wouldn't deploy a force of several billion isk worth of ships in order to blow up your 38M isk worth of 0.4 rat loot. Perhaps more is going on than you know. Did you perhaps try discussing the situation with your captors?
James Duar Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.11.17 12:10:00 - [157] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Gavin Kineli stuff Originally by: James Duar stuff Isn't it funny though how some people learn and adapt, while others come to the forum and whine? I don't get it is this a veiled insult, and if so, at whom?
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.17 12:19:00 - [158] Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 17/11/2006 12:20:50 Originally by: Gavin Kineli Most people replying here have played the game a while, and we know how it works. This guy has an 800k SP character. Does he know the ins and outs of the game? How to slip past gate campers? Probably not. Of course he doesnt, which is why people usually tell new players to find a corporation with older members. And no, they im talking about some PVP corp with a 10 mill SP req. Theres plenty of empire corps who recruit and help new players with advice. I faced the same problem when i started with eve, i started with a bunch of friends from a diffrent game and we started a corp together. The result? Well my loss was a uninsured battleship in low because we had no clue what instas or warp core stabs were. Did we whine on the forums about the game being too hard and pirates being griefers? No, we adapted. Originally by: James Duar Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Gavin Kineli stuff Originally by: James Duar stuff Isn't it funny though how some people learn and adapt, while others come to the forum and whine? I don't get it is this a veiled insult, and if so, at whom? Its not really an insult, its an observation. Some people adapt to problem they face, other people try and get someone else to remove the problem for them. Only one type of these players has what it takes to survive in eve, the other type usually ends up leaving eventually. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Valan	Posted - 2006.11.17 12:21:00 - [159] Originally by: Gavin Kineli I think a lot of you are missing the point. Most people replying here have played the game a while, and we know how it works. This guy has an 800k SP character. Does he know the ins and outs of the game? How to slip past gate campers? Probably not. So rather than be critical and call him a whiner, help this guy out. Yes but istead of saying I don't really know what I'm doing and I got podded. He's come along saying you're all wrong and the game is crap because I got podded. Slight difference in attitude. I've seen new guys have similar issues. I've sent them an eve-mail giving advice and enough isk to replace their ship. I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on.
Santa Anna	Posted - 2006.11.17 12:30:00 - [160] Originally by: Valan Originally by: Gavin Kineli I think a lot of you are missing the point. Most people replying here have played the game a while, and we know how it works. This guy has an 800k SP character. Does he know the ins and outs of the game? How to slip past gate campers? Probably not. So rather than be critical and call him a whiner, help this guy out. Yes but istead of saying I don't really know what I'm doing and I got podded. He's come along saying you're all wrong and the game is crap because I got podded. Slight difference in attitude. I've seen new guys have similar issues. I've sent them an eve-mail giving advice and enough isk to replace their ship. This guy is a 1337 dev with uber minesweeper skillz and doesn't need your help.
James Duar Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.11.17 12:39:00 - [161] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Originally by: James Duar Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Gavin Kineli stuff Originally by: James Duar stuff Isn't it funny though how some people learn and adapt, while others come to the forum and whine? I don't get it is this a veiled insult, and if so, at whom? Its not really an insult, its an observation. Some people adapt to problem they face, other people try and get someone else to remove the problem for them. Only one type of these players has what it takes to survive in eve, the other type usually ends up leaving eventually. I get that, but I think my point remains valid - there is an appalling scarcity of information if you're a new player regarding a lot of game mechanics. It certainly won't stop people who want to complain from complaining, but it would help a lot of people. If we could at least stress how dangerous low-sec is (i.e. it does not linearly become more dangerous) then it'd just be a net positive - it was certainly something I didn't know, though I did the sensible thing and somehow through luck saved my pod and scurried back to Empire to ask more questions.
Maestro Ulv Phaze-9	Posted - 2006.11.17 12:47:00 - [162] Originally by: Polinus Developer I felt sorry for you until that point. Gotta wonder why you dont find flying frigates fun? IMO frigates are the best way to play EVE, the speed, rapid target change, transversal. The skills needed to fly one well will always make your next cruiser skills far far better plus you get experience fighting instead of "sit there, tank, fire" If i was ever to get stuck with 38 mill in the bank and a 800k sp character, id pop outside and get podded just for the fast travel. Providing of course you bothered to update your clone. I'm not bored, I'm merely in the Queue.
WeirdNoise	Posted - 2006.11.17 12:54:00 - [163] Originally by: Polinus I think you all dont get the poitn. That is not a simple whine. Its a critiscism of how EVE dois not contemplate a reasonable time frame on the life of a character. When you are over 2 weeks old. no lvl 1 mission will give you any fun. And you are still too far form lvl 2 missions ( on the rythim I was going it would take 3 months to reach level 2 missions). So no chalange at one point... so you try to find something more fun to do. But there is no.. " a bit more difficult" place to have fun. There is nothing fun in 0.5 and above.. nothing.. until i can unloack level 2 agents.. and I dont want to pay just do do NOT FUN things!! EVE must insert contents for this level of paying. Cause that is one of reaosn so many accounts are short lived. One word : connections. The connections skill will bring you lvl 2 missions on a platter. Raise that to lvl2 and you gain about 0.70 standing if your current standing is below 1. The formula is ModifiedStanding = BaseStanding + 4% of (10 - BaseStanding), if BaseStanding is more than zero. That means that at a standing of 0.1 you get nearly 0.4 gain by the first level of connection skill, whereas at a standing of 5 you would get only 0.2 gain by that same lvl 1 of connections skill. The skill is easy and fast to learn. Lvl 3 connections goes fast and gives you over 1 standing point. You're nearer from unlocking lvl 3's than you thought you were from lvl 2's. As for your story, what you have experienced is not the rule in low sec. You've fallen on an especially hard place at a hard time. Wasting a week for a gate camp is nasty, I agree. I'd suggest leaving all your stuff behind, frankly. You say belt rats are uninteresting in empire, but they can be profitable, thanks to the odd drop of valuable items. At least more profitable than lvl 1 or even lvl 2 missions, and funnier too. On an extreme solution you could escrow/sell your stuff which is blocked in the system. Not very smart but would avoid you being nude in empire. As long as you can get and equip a combat frig (not necessarily an expensive one) you can make a million quickly on 0.5 rats, trust me, check market prices on named stuff. Then run those lvl2 missions... and if it's not fun go to low sec, but in as cheap a fitting as practicable...
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.17 13:12:00 - [164] Originally by: James Duar Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Originally by: James Duar Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Gavin Kineli stuff Originally by: James Duar stuff Isn't it funny though how some people learn and adapt, while others come to the forum and whine? I don't get it is this a veiled insult, and if so, at whom? Its not really an insult, its an observation. Some people adapt to problem they face, other people try and get someone else to remove the problem for them. Only one type of these players has what it takes to survive in eve, the other type usually ends up leaving eventually. I get that, but I think my point remains valid - there is an appalling scarcity of information if you're a new player regarding a lot of game mechanics. It certainly won't stop people who want to complain from complaining, but it would help a lot of people. If we could at least stress how dangerous low-sec is (i.e. it does not linearly become more dangerous) then it'd just be a net positive - it was certainly something I didn't know, though I did the sensible thing and somehow through luck saved my pod and scurried back to Empire to ask more questions. He was correct that it was simply an observation, though given my typical posting style it's not hard to imagine someone misconstruing it . The game could certainly be more forthcoming with information, but it is exposure to the harshness of the world that is the best lesson. Not to mention the fact that your mileage will vary. When I was originally on my 14 day trial months before I started playing properly, I earned my money by making runs into 0.0 and mining high-end ore and ferrying it back to empire in my Imicus. Never had a problem, and had a profitable 2 weeks out of it. I tried to do the same thing again when I restarted the game, but I just kept getting wtfpwned, by gatecamps in 0.0 and by pirates in 0.4. Then I was recruited into a corp, which operated in and around a different area of lowsec, and was on good terms with the pirates in that area, so I was able to move around that lowsec in complete safety. There's a complete world out there. That's very difficult to explain to people who haven't seen it for themselves, and who don't 'get' Eve yet. ---------- IBTL \o/
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.17 13:21:00 - [165] Originally by: James Duar I get that, but I think my point remains valid - there is an appalling scarcity of information if you're a new player regarding a lot of game mechanics. It certainly won't stop people who want to complain from complaining, but it would help a lot of people. Well i agree with you to a certain extend. Making the tutorial bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger isnt going to fix it though. Theres only so much people can learn from the tutorial, the rest they have to figure out themselves or learn from other players. Originally by: James Duar If we could at least stress how dangerous low-sec is (i.e. it does not linearly become more dangerous) then it'd just be a net positive - it was certainly something I didn't know, though I did the sensible thing and somehow through luck saved my pod and scurried back to Empire to ask more questions. 'Dangerous' is arbitrary, low sec is only as dangerous as you make it. On top of that only the travel route systems and busy low sec systems are dangerous as they attract pirates, those empty dead end systems are safer then 1.0 systems themselves. When you try to jump into low sec you get a warning about it being dangerous, if people donÆt read it, ignore it or just plain old donÆt get it then the game cant be blamed for that. ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
James Duar Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.11.17 13:25:00 - [166] I get that we can't just make the tutorial longer and longer and longer, but I think we could easily have a very concise "this is the universe" tutorial which would answer a bunch of FAQs very easily.
Valan	Posted - 2006.11.17 13:30:00 - [167] Edited by: Valan on 17/11/2006 13:30:55 You can offer all the help in the world but some people just don't get it. A work mate of mine played for a while but he was useless. We repeatedly told him what not to do and he would still get popped on a weekly basis making the same mistake. Now you could say he was stupid but he's one of the smartest blokes I've met. There is just no helping some people, you have to be crap at something for some its EVE. You have to draw the tutorial line somewhere you cna't hold their hand all the way through. I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on.
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.17 13:31:00 - [168] Originally by: Valan You can offer all the help in the world but some people just don't get it. A work mate of mine played for a while but he was useless. We repeatedly told him what not to do and he would still get popped on a weekly basis making the same mistake. Hehe reminds of a guy who used to be in my class. He was a nice guy but **** did he suck at eve ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Detavi Kade	Posted - 2006.11.17 14:56:00 - [169] Originally by: Valan Edited by: Valan on 17/11/2006 13:30:55 You can offer all the help in the world but some people just don't get it. A work mate of mine played for a while but he was useless. We repeatedly told him what not to do and he would still get popped on a weekly basis making the same mistake. Now you could say he was stupid but he's one of the smartest blokes I've met. There is just no helping some people, you have to be crap at something for some its EVE. You have to draw the tutorial line somewhere you cna't hold their hand all the way through. Exactly. If you stop the tutorial at arbitrary point N, someone will complain that they got stuck at N+1 and the tutorial didn't cover that.
Peter Stuyvesant Amarr	Posted - 2006.11.17 15:23:00 - [170] Originally by: Ky'var Traven quit trying to pretend that killing newbies is anything but griefing. Ok, I read this word so often along with much discussion of what is or isnt 'griefing', and I'm at a loss to understand the point of that discussion. An action in Eve is either: a. Allowed by CCP b. Not allowed by CCP (Yes, I know the GMs can be ambiguous about some things, I'm ignoring that for the purposes of this discussion) IMO, the word 'griefing' should be reserved for those things that belong in category B, and as such it matters not what the players' definition of it is If we're trying to mould a definition around things in category A, what is the point? Trying to determine what is griefing and what isn't is only useful if 'griefing' itself is not allowed. Otherwise, you may as well just use 'being an arse'. In light of this: please, those of you who argue about what constitutes 'griefing', what exactly are you trying to acheive by defining it?
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.17 23:47:00 - [171] Originally by: Ky'var Traven Edited by: Ky''var Traven on 17/11/2006 05:48:53 Originally by: Tobias Sjodin You know, destroying another player in combat and ***ing their pod is an exhiliarating experience. You should try it. Obviously you see no difference between a target that can actually shoot back with some chance as opposed to one that has no chance of damaging you, so you're the kind of person who would hunt rabbits with an assault rifle I guess. Actually. I attack any target I feel like. Real-life comparisons are irrelevant. This is a game. If some guy in a hauler can't fire back, I don't really care. He went into a dangerous area of space without scouting, where it clearly says that he can be attacked. If he went there hoping that anyone without equal fighting capability will just "let him slide" because "that would be unfair". Then that guy is simply stupid. And playing the wrong game (I suggest the other three-lettered acronym). Quote: Originally by:** Tobias Sjodin I like EVE because I can do what the heck I want, and I love it when the mail comes from some whiner about how what I'm doing is "wrong". Of course the fact that you hunted down a newbie in your nice shiny BS just so you could brag about how you educated them in the game by killing them repeatedly, engage in gratuitous self gratification much? Sometimes the target is a newbie, sometimes it isn't. And what ship I'm in at the time changes. I still attack people who are "daring" enough to venture into space where non-consensual PvP occur all the time. Quote: Originally by: Tobias Sjodin EVE is a free game. Actually, looking at the charges on my credit card it's not free, it is a sandbox game which is why I like it, but quit trying to pretend that killing newbies is anything but griefing. FREE, as in "you can do what you want". Smartass. Griefing is just a term that people who prefer WoW-handholding gameplay coined to try and make a case for themselves. Quote: Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Quit laughing, smell the coffee. How can I help but laugh when people come up with such pathetic excuses to try and justify acting like asshats? Edit: Grr stupid forums, posted with the wrong character.... It's nothing personal. If you want a game where you won't ever be attacked by a superior foe, don't play EVE. Simple, huh? [ore mongers, recruiting]
Lunadi Minmatar Solar Trade	Posted - 2006.11.18 00:13:00 - [172] To bring balance to the universe of gankers & carebears I propose the following solution. Let CCP introduce random concord gatecamp in low sec / 0.0 shooting at everything that has sec standing below 0, as well as random concord belt runs with the same purpose. I would just love to see all those pirats whining on the forums ;-) -------- hate my spelling? go play SCRABBLE!
Patric Murphy Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.11.18 02:02:00 - [173] I dont have time to read through 6 pages of replies right now, so sorry if this has been said already. Your biggest problem right now is that you are !. talking about eve being too hard for new palyers, and 2. flying BC's with 800K skill points. If you dont want to struggle at every turn, make sure you traing the suporting skills you need rather than just getting into the biggest ship you can ASAP. The fact that you claim to fly BC's and had to make two warps to get across a system while your oppent obviously could make it in one (becouse he beat you to the other side) shows me that your support skills are severly under developed. spot flying crusers, go back to frigs and learn the skills and tactics needed to survive. No, i cant spell, Yes, i have an education. Please try to keep your responses related to what I said, not the typo's.
Sharupak	Posted - 2006.11.18 02:12:00 - [174] Take it in stride too... What is fun about this game is that death is actually a fairly big risk. I havent been playing long, but I have gotten killed a bunch of times. I laugh everytime because its fun

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