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Aminari Talar Banananah Intrepid Crossing 0	Posted - 2015.05.31 05:41:33 - [1] - Quote Mining Barges need some changes. The Reasoning As a game developer and experienced pvp pilot (2003 player) in eve, I for-see the future of eve turning into a very "Roam" based pvp system in 0.0. I predict much less "warning" to roams / Invaders, and much more common pvpers. For this reason i predict that miners will be instant gimp repeatedly, and that the 0.0 Mining playerbase will cease to exist (thus moving the game toward high sec only mining). This is a huge shame, but already miners are massively scared and apprehensive to come here. We need changes! Current Changes - Move Slots Barges badly need more slots, especially high slots. Being able to fit cloaking devices will massively help mining in 0.0. Let players create uncloaking and searching tactics * Im thinking if there was a ship that was "50% Bonus smart bomb range* - 50% Damage (Cruiser class) it would really make finding cloaked mining fleets better, and really help smart bombers shine. - New Barge Types I would love to see a Covert Mining Barge (out side the prospect) that is drone based. Black-ops is massively used for combat, but why not sneaking mining options? - Drone Boat Miner I would love to see a mining barge that mined via drones. I would love to see on it a bonus like "+ 2 max drone deployed per level" and "Faster travel speed and mining rate for drones per a level". Beams are great, But lets make mining drones more valid! - A new Hauler Type One of the biggest problems as a miner is the inability to stock large amounts of ore in a hold. Its incredibly annoying. Please give us a new transport ship that is tech 3, that allows players to drop ore into its hold, and give it "automatic container creation", where the ship can "generate" a "personal hanger" for players dropping ore in it Or you could give it a ROLE bonus like "99% reduction in mass of station containers". Give it a massive ore hold. "50% bonus to ore hold size per a level", capping out at 10m Ore hold. Make it a Industrial Equiv Hull. - A new Mining Cloak! a new mining cloak where we have a tech 3 mining ship that allows use to mine cloaked, would be awesome!
James Baboli Ferrous Infernum 810	Posted - 2015.05.31 06:02:27 - [2] - Quote Basic premise: No. If you want safety, get your PVPers to not just do offensive roams but also do defensive patrols, or go back to highsec. Barges getting more slots is bad, as this just make it even harder for a newbie to compete, because now they need maxed fitting skills and mining skills. Covert barge? What need is there for a covert barge, and what role does it fill other than null bearing? More mining drones: maybe. Not terrible idea, but it would need to be looked at. T3 hauler which gives everyone personal cans: Can you pass me whatever influences you are under? I'm looking for new things to inspire terrible ideas. Coding it would be a nightmare, it violates the premise of risk vs reward and needing to trust the hauler, and do the actual logistics of whom gets paid for the ore. Cloak which allows any locks: you want WAT?! No. No perfect safety mining in anoms for you. Talking more, Flying crazier, And drinking more Making battleships worth the warp
FireFrenzy Satan's Unicorns 419	Posted - 2015.05.31 07:15:27 - [3] - Quote Baboli game on point...
Kiddoomer ScrewWork Inc. 49	Posted - 2015.05.31 08:03:35 - [4] - Quote I'm for a mining drone boat, but I think we need first at least medium mining drones before that. For the cloaky hauler no, mining fleet can be defended, boring but that's what is needed for local industry. For the ore hauler no too, the compression array make the job of transporting big amount of ore in nearly ever transport ship decently. The only thing that we need on exhumers (T1 are fine for now IMO), is 3-5 more cpu on mack and hulk, nothing else. A survey scanner tweak and new mining methods: interactive mining
Celthric Kanerian Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation 302	Posted - 2015.05.31 10:23:00 - [5] - Quote Aminari Talar wrote: As a game developer and experienced pvp pilot (2003 player) in eve Long time player, but still very poor understanding of how the overall sandbox of the game works. Being a pvp'er is not an excuse however. Aminari Talar wrote: Being able to fit cloaking devices will massively help mining in 0.0. Sure, but then the barge should not be able to fit any drones. Covert cloak is already an incredible weapon in EVE. Aminari Talar wrote: - A new Mining Cloak! a new mining cloak where we have a tech 3 mining ship that allows use to mine cloaked, would be awesome! You must be trolling...
Haatakan Reppola Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 16	Posted - 2015.05.31 10:40:02 - [6] - Quote James Baboli wrote: Basic premise: No. If you want safety, get your PVPers to not just do offensive roams but also do defensive patrols, or go back to highsec. Defensive patrol = sitting in belt waiting for someone to come for the miners. Its the reason hit and run tactics work so good, it takes very little effort to do a hit but takes 24/7 defense to stop it
Haters GonnaHate Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2015.05.31 11:21:56 - [7] - Quote Kiddoomer wrote: I'm for a mining drone boat, but I think we need first at least medium mining drones before that. For the cloaky hauler no, mining fleet can be defended, boring but that's what is needed for local industry. For the ore hauler no too, the compression array make the job of transporting big amount of ore in nearly ever transport ship decently. The only thing that we need on exhumers (T1 are fine for now IMO), is 3-5 more cpu on mack and hulk, nothing else. carriers make excellent mining drone boats.
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3428	Posted - 2015.05.31 12:00:38 - [8] - Quote Haatakan Reppola wrote: James Baboli wrote: Basic premise: No. If you want safety, get your PVPers to not just do offensive roams but also do defensive patrols, or go back to highsec. Defensive patrol = sitting in belt waiting for someone to come for the miners. Its the reason hit and run tactics work so good, it takes very little effort to do a hit but takes 24/7 defense to stop it Err, no, defensive roam = home defence gang chasing whatever roam has come to kill your miners and trying to kill them first. If it's not an instawarp interceptor gang, it can lead to some good fights. Of course, you could try mining in skiffs and keeping a single rapier or something around as a drone trigger.
Haatakan Reppola Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 16	Posted - 2015.05.31 12:17:23 - [9] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Haatakan Reppola wrote: James Baboli wrote: Basic premise: No. If you want safety, get your PVPers to not just do offensive roams but also do defensive patrols, or go back to highsec. Defensive patrol = sitting in belt waiting for someone to come for the miners. Its the reason hit and run tactics work so good, it takes very little effort to do a hit but takes 24/7 defense to stop it Err, no, defensive roam = home defence gang chasing whatever roam has come to kill your miners and trying to kill them first. If it's not an instawarp interceptor gang, it can lead to some good fights. Of course, you could try mining in skiffs and keeping a single rapier or something around as a drone trigger. Ok defensive roam is roaming your own space hoping someone poke you. for miners this means nothing if your 3-5 systems out or engaging someone else when they get dropped, so you need to stay close to your miners if you are supposed to defend them
Agondray Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces 305	Posted - 2015.05.31 13:01:31 - [10] - Quote +1 from me, nvm the angry pvpers "i don't want my things I kill to be stronger or able to hide from me, waaa ccp don't do this plxors." "Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3428	Posted - 2015.05.31 13:26:21 - [11] - Quote Haatakan Reppola wrote: Danika Princip wrote: Haatakan Reppola wrote: James Baboli wrote: Basic premise: No. If you want safety, get your PVPers to not just do offensive roams but also do defensive patrols, or go back to highsec. Defensive patrol = sitting in belt waiting for someone to come for the miners. Its the reason hit and run tactics work so good, it takes very little effort to do a hit but takes 24/7 defense to stop it Err, no, defensive roam = home defence gang chasing whatever roam has come to kill your miners and trying to kill them first. If it's not an instawarp interceptor gang, it can lead to some good fights. Of course, you could try mining in skiffs and keeping a single rapier or something around as a drone trigger. Ok defensive roam is roaming your own space hoping someone poke you. for miners this means nothing if your 3-5 systems out or engaging someone else when they get dropped, so you need to stay close to your miners if you are supposed to defend them No, a home defence gang is 'Okay guys, gang incoming, reship to [whatever you use] and form up [wherever] so we can hit them before they hit our guys'. If you have multiple hostile gangs in your space, maybe you shouldn't be expecting to mine in complete safety? Likewise, if you can't be bothered to watch local, put scouts anywhere, use skiffs and drone triggers, or, y'know, put in anything that even resembles effort to get your fleet out when hostiles come your way, maybe you shouldn't be in nullsec at all?
Christopher Mabata The Interstellar Manipulation Consortium 349	Posted - 2015.05.31 17:36:13 - [12] - Quote Barges have been buffed and rebuffed 3 or 4 times since 2012, theyre in a fine spot, Of anything fix the cap issues on T1 barges and call it a day If you want to fit a cloak, drop a miner / laser if you have less warning before an attack, fit for mobility and warp off if you want relative safety while mining, i hear highsec has positions opening up daily If you want more drones, fly a drone boat see the premise here? Tradeoffs, everyone needs to have one or more for something in return So TLDR Nope Theory-Crafter, Free Agent, Immortal Space Pirate. Generally Crazy and difficult to understand at times.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out 8108	Posted - 2015.05.31 18:35:28 - [13] - Quote Pro-tip: a group of Procurers/Skiffs with two Basilisks is a SCARY composition (it is like fighting a group of Arbitrators with 50k to 90k+ tanks). Barges are fine. The tools to defend themselves are already there. And IF miners all leave for high-sec because they don't want to expend the effort of using the tools and tactics already available to them... that is a sign that high-sec mining should probably be nerfed. A lot. How did you Veterans start? The Skillpoint System and You
FireFrenzy Satan's Unicorns 421	Posted - 2015.05.31 18:50:23 - [14] - Quote Ofcourse there is one reason people hang out in highsec... Not all of us want to live in null... And i'm not saying it should shower you with hookers and blow but it should be possible to make some money there... Other then that i like Shah's post
Christopher Mabata The Interstellar Manipulation Consortium 350	Posted - 2015.05.31 18:55:09 - [15] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: Pro-tip: a group of Procurers/Skiffs with two Basilisks is a SCARY composition (it is like fighting a group of Arbitrators with 50k to 90k+ tanks). Barges are fine. The tools to defend themselves are already there. And IF miners all leave for high-sec because they don't want to expend the effort of using the tools and tactics already available to them... that is a sign that high-sec mining should probably be nerfed. A lot. I will vouch for the sheer power of fleets of mining craft, i dropped a bomber gang on a group once and we wound up losing 6 bombers and only killed 2 macks and a skiff, had their been logi we would have been doomed Theory-Crafter, Free Agent, Immortal Space Pirate. Generally Crazy and difficult to understand at times.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out 8110	Posted - 2015.05.31 18:59:41 - [16] - Quote FireFrenzy wrote: Ofcourse there is one reason people hang out in highsec... Not all of us want to live in null... And i'm not saying it should shower you with hookers and blow but it should be possible to make some money there... I never said that people shouldn't be able to make money in high-sec. I just believe that if one wants greater safety or expend less effort in their activities... they should get comparably less in terms of money... even over the long term. So if you want to do your thing in high-sec... okay. Cool. To each their own. But don't complain about your income being MUCH less than people who choose to work together and and/or live in more hostile places. There is a price for your (relative) security and independence. How did you Veterans start? The Skillpoint System and You
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 310	Posted - 2015.06.01 14:14:08 - [17] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: that is a sign that high-sec mining should probably be nerfed. A lot. Me thinks this is the core element of your post that FireFrenzy weas referring to. Perhaps you did not intend it to be this way but you are calling for a nerf to high sec mining rewards and that is not something the game needs right now. I agree that those who choose to mine in areas with greater risks should receive greater rewards and CCP has made many changes over the past year or so to address that issue. And getting back to the OP topic, NO the barges are in a good place at the moment.
Johny Tyler Synapse. Diplomatic Immunity. 16	Posted - 2015.06.01 14:28:39 - [18] - Quote Aminari Talar wrote: ...experienced pvp pilot ... https://zkillboard.com/character/95569410/ Post with your PvP main then if you think that will buy you some legitimacy for bad ideas.
Elenahina Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 661	Posted - 2015.06.01 15:06:46 - [19] - Quote As an interceptor pilot, nothing is more frightening than landing on a group of prepared miners and suddenly finding yourself webbed and scrammed, with 30+ assorted light drones coming at you. Add logi, and you have a comp that can put up a frightening defense against smaller ships. But let's be clear - mining barges are not combat ships. Against cruisers or larger ships, they're going to get torn to pieces - and they should. Part of flying a non-combat ship (or any ship really) is knowing when to run the **** away. Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
Lan Wang Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly. 703	Posted - 2015.06.01 15:25:55 - [20] - Quote what sillyness is in here if only i had a facepalm smiley EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding \| Digital Design
Arya Regnar Darwins Right Hand 730	Posted - 2015.06.01 16:56:04 - [21] - Quote For a 2003 player you are really really bad. Meth, not even once... Your ideas aren't bad, they are terrible. EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Discomanco We pooped on your lawn Resonance. 132	Posted - 2015.06.01 17:12:57 - [22] - Quote Aminari Talar wrote: Mining Barges need some changes. The Reasoning As a game developer and experienced pvp pilot (2003 player) in eve, I for-see the future of eve turning into a very "Roam" based pvp system in 0.0. I predict much less "warning" to roams / Invaders, and much more common pvpers. For this reason i predict that miners will be instant gimp repeatedly, and that the 0.0 Mining playerbase will cease to exist (thus moving the game toward high sec only mining). This is a huge shame, but already miners are massively scared and apprehensive to come here. We need changes! Current Changes - Move Slots Barges badly need more slots, especially high slots. Being able to fit cloaking devices will massively help mining in 0.0. Let players create uncloaking and searching tactics * Im thinking if there was a ship that was "50% Bonus smart bomb range* - 50% Damage (Cruiser class) it would really make finding cloaked mining fleets better, and really help smart bombers shine. - New Barge Types I would love to see a Covert Mining Barge (out side the prospect) that is drone based. Black-ops is massively used for combat, but why not sneaking mining options? - Drone Boat Miner I would love to see a mining barge that mined via drones. I would love to see on it a bonus like "+ 2 max drone deployed per level" and "Faster travel speed and mining rate for drones per a level". Beams are great, But lets make mining drones more valid! - A new Hauler Type One of the biggest problems as a miner is the inability to stock large amounts of ore in a hold. Its incredibly annoying. Please give us a new transport ship that is tech 3, that allows players to drop ore into its hold, and give it "automatic container creation", where the ship can "generate" a "personal hanger" for players dropping ore in it Or you could give it a ROLE bonus like "99% reduction in mass of station containers". Give it a massive ore hold. "50% bonus to ore hold size per a level", capping out at 10m Ore hold. Make it a Industrial Equiv Hull. - A new Mining Cloak! a new mining cloak where we have a tech 3 mining ship that allows use to mine cloaked, would be awesome! Even as a lowsec PvPer/Miner, I can't take this seriously... Move Slots If you put another highslot on barges for a cloaking device, 99.9% will use that slot for another Strip Miner. Covert Ops Barge It would have to be redicioulus expensive (500m+), or better yet, simply not exist. Prospect is fine as it is, since it's a frigate, low yield (compared to barges) and is already slippery like its T1 version, Venture. Drone Boat Miner This one I see no issues with though, only gives a bit of variety. Mining Drones still needs a fix though New Hauler Type So... You want a flying station container? No seriously, use a freighter or Orca to move ores from belt to POS and compress the **. You've got plenty of tools, use them. Mining Cloak Are you ***** serious? No one would ever use anything else, and would probably just AFK mine behind a belt in some position where he'll never be found. No risk = Good reward = Bad, very very bad.
Galphii Caldari Provisions Caldari State 312	Posted - 2015.06.02 00:16:54 - [23] - Quote Procurers and Skiffs were buffed with drone damage bonuses for operating in dangerous space. If you've got a group of these ships together, their drone swarm is very potent. These are the vessels you should be flying if you want tough, defensible mining ships. The idea of a drone mining boat has been around for a while and I'd like to see it too, though mining drones need an overhaul first (so does mining in general come to think of it). "Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.
Damnskippy Hounds of War. Hashashin Cartel 44	Posted - 2015.06.02 02:23:20 - [24] - Quote Elenahina wrote: As an interceptor pilot, nothing is more frightening than landing on a group of prepared miners and suddenly finding yourself webbed and scrammed, with 30+ assorted light drones coming at you. Add logi, and you have a comp that can put up a frightening defense against smaller ships. But let's be clear - mining barges are not combat ships. Against cruisers or larger ships, they're going to get torn to pieces - and they should. Part of flying a non-combat ship (or any ship really) is knowing when to run the **** away. Seconding this. As someone who often flies solo or with 1 friend, I've found that even a lone skiff or procurer can be a pain to take down in an inty. Null sec mining can be quite safe if you're prepared to take the necessary steps. Just simply paying attention to intel channels will mitigate nearly all of the risk.
Christopher Mabata The Interstellar Manipulation Consortium 356	Posted - 2015.06.02 03:14:51 - [25] - Quote I agree with skippy as someone who dropped bombers on a skiff fleet and almost lost the ISK war, those drones in bulk are no joke, and anything with 90k EHP or more is a PITA to take out quick. All it takes is staying aligned, watching intel, and d-scan and your going to be A-Ok Theory-Crafter, Free Agent, Immortal Space Pirate. Generally Crazy and difficult to understand at times.
Petrified Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 258	Posted - 2015.06.02 04:47:36 - [26] - Quote Aminari Talar wrote: ... Current Changes - Move Slots Barges badly need more slots, especially high slots. Being able to fit cloaking devices will massively help mining in 0.0. Let players create uncloaking and searching tactics * Im thinking if there was a ship that was "50% Bonus smart bomb range* - 50% Damage (Cruiser class) it would really make finding cloaked mining fleets better, and really help smart bombers shine. - New Barge Types I would love to see a Covert Mining Barge (out side the prospect) that is drone based. Black-ops is massively used for combat, but why not sneaking mining options? - Drone Boat Miner I would love to see a mining barge that mined via drones. I would love to see on it a bonus like "+ 2 max drone deployed per level" and "Faster travel speed and mining rate for drones per a level". Beams are great, But lets make mining drones more valid! - A new Hauler Type One of the biggest problems as a miner is the inability to stock large amounts of ore in a hold. Its incredibly annoying. Please give us a new transport ship that is tech 3, that allows players to drop ore into its hold, and give it "automatic container creation", where the ship can "generate" a "personal hanger" for players dropping ore in it Or you could give it a ROLE bonus like "99% reduction in mass of station containers". Give it a massive ore hold. "50% bonus to ore hold size per a level", capping out at 10m Ore hold. Make it a Industrial Equiv Hull. - A new Mining Cloak! a new mining cloak where we have a tech 3 mining ship that allows use to mine cloaked, would be awesome! As a long term player myself (industry mainly) and as one who has seen interesting changes to mining over the decade+ EVE has been running I have to say this: ummm... what? Much of what you are asking is already present in the game. For instance: - While none of the current mining barges have bonuses for mining drones, all of them can use mining drones. Additionally, there are rigs to obtain the requested bonuses you seek (mining augmentor). Still... it would be nice if there was a natural bonus to drone mining yield on some if not all of the barges. - Except for the Covetor and Hulk, all current barges have sufficient ore holds to do the job right. Even then, the Covetor and Hulk, given their overall nature, are not designed to be solo or self-supporting miners: they need to work in a fleet. - There are several ships capable of carrying large quantities of ore already: Orca, Deep Space Transports, Miasmos, Rorqual and freighters. As for Covert mining itself: don't see this happening any more than I see people using any other module while cloaked. A larger version of the prospect might be interesting, but how many people use the prospect in it's current form anyways? Its a niche product at best right now, why ORE would make a larger version might not make "fiscal sense" That said: a dedicated high slot for the addition of a cloaking device - not a covert type, would be handy.
Mag's the united 19532	Posted - 2015.06.02 15:53:23 - [27] - Quote Sorry guys, this has to be a troll. Surely no one that long in the game, can be so ignorant. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Christopher Mabata The Interstellar Manipulation Consortium 368	Posted - 2015.06.02 18:21:42 - [28] - Quote Mag's wrote: Sorry guys, this has to be a troll. Surely no one that long in the game, can be so ignorant. I hope your right, i really really do Theory-Crafter, Free Agent, Immortal Space Pirate. Generally Crazy and difficult to understand at times.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1331	Posted - 2015.06.02 18:26:55 - [29] - Quote To be fair it amazes me people suggest guarding miners. I've done it occasionally. I think I'd rather drink bleech than do it again it's THAT boring.
Tusker Crazinski Delta vane Corp. Mordus Angels 71	Posted - 2015.06.02 20:12:18 - [30] - Quote nah, they should just be harder to kill and have actual teeth generally PVP is funner when the opposition shoots back, I think that rationale should be extended to all industrial ships.
Kaldi Tsukaya Deveron Shipyards and Technology 87	Posted - 2015.06.02 21:54:56 - [31] - Quote Not supported. The tools are already in the game.
Christopher Mabata The Interstellar Manipulation Consortium 372	Posted - 2015.06.02 22:14:18 - [32] - Quote Tusker Crazinski wrote: nah, they should just be harder to kill and have actual teeth generally PVP is funner when the opposition shoots back, I think that rationale should be extended to all industrial ships. The premise of an industrial ship is the fact that it is not a warship. Look at modern day fuel barges and cargo ships, they use fire hoses as weapons to keep themselves safe. Now put one in a match up with a navy destroyer, submarine, aircraft carrier, etc and tell me who will win? And i know you shouldn't compare EVE with RL in terms of these things, i try very hard not to when possible, but it does provide a pretty clear image of what we are dealing with here. The simple fact is these ships are designed with offense as an afterthought, not the priority. "how fun it is to kill them if they can fight back" is not a factor in their design at any point. They have enough design relegated to Industrial purposes; be it a giant floating cargo bay with engines, a series of ore extraction lasers and specialized bays to promote efficient extractionand transfer of materials or to haul said materials to station or towers. and then defense systems to help keep precious cargo safe. Offense is a gift on these ships, not a right. -Freighters got buffed and gained tank slots, there are ways to get a freighter over a million EHP, its expensive and possibly impractical but even a lesser version using cheap modules or T2 can get 600 - 750K. Thats EHP that matches a carrier out of the box. And yet people still anti tank, autopilot, and think "oh it wont happen to me". -Barges and exhumers were re balanced to have more tank and firepower, particularly the skiff and the procurer. Look at people using them as bait ships or battle barge fleets, that speaks for itself -Industrial ships were overhauled so the Itteron V wasn't the only way to go, now they all have a purpose, and some of them can be in and out as fast as a blockade runner. -Speaking of Blockade runners got utility highslots and more cargo, which can be used for a cyno if needed, ive seen people drop gangs off these ships to protect them or simply as bait, ifyou wanted to it could also be used for a gun/missile. -Deep Space transports got massive tanking bonuses and even more massive holds, a medium micro jump drive, and can burst tank like a battleship. When does the outcry for these ships to "Get buffed because they are too weak" end? In complete safety? Use the tools provided, CCP has given you soo much and yet he we are again discussing the same issues we've been discussing for years. Theory-Crafter, Free Agent, Immortal Space Pirate. Generally Crazy and difficult to understand at times.

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