After seeing a few more retention friendly choices made to EVE I decided to try my hand at internet spaceships again. I've always wanted to get into the PvP (specifically the pew-pew, not the industry/market/contract scamming).

From what I know, if I want fights I can:

1. Wander into Null and find an alliance to join.
2. Join RvB.
3. Join FW.

Alliance sounds like a lot of work, and commitment, and listening to people tell me that they really need a Minnie Logi pilot this week. Not happening. RvB sounds fun, but FW sounds like it pays for itself. Getting into fights without going broke sounds awesome.

So I prepped this week: picked up a bushel of cheap frigates, freighted them out to a nearby FW border, and set up a cozy little dock to call my own.

What I've found is that FW seems to involve three activities, and none of them involve the internet spaceship fights I was hoping for.

1. I can circle buttons in a shuttle, aligned to GTFO.
2. I can run around solo, looking for fights.
3. I can find a FW gang to join.

Now, #1 gets me all the profit I was promised. Even bouncing around avoiding anything that comes up on d-scan I think I did 40k LP in a crappy defensive system in maybe an hour. Boring as hell though.

#2 just gets me killed. Repeatedly and without being able to fight back. I've got a nice stack of killmails, and only even manage to hit one of them. Everybody else either kited me or DPS'd me down before I could get in range.

#3 I haven't tried. I'm not expecting much considering how popular "Oh god, there's a dozen orange in local - time to dock up" seems to be. That really sounds like #1, just with more people on Mumble.

Have I missed anything? I really want #2 to work - but it looks like I'm going to have to finish a 6 month training plan so I can compete (along with moving up from my 1mil frig fits to something closer to 20mil). Which I'll admit, makes me long for #4 - If I can't kill internet space ships, I can go back to Planetside 2 and kill internet space mans at least.

Signed,
Recent re-subber, long time hater of CCP design choices.

CCP has no fault in this.

You will learn a massive amount of what you can fight in your chosen fit, and what you have no hope of beating.

Also drop the defeatist attitude.

I know because I did it as a 1-month old player. lost dozens of ships, but killed a lot as well.

when active FW PVP corps see war targets is when they undock, not the opposite

Dude you definitely sound like you've already set out to find reasons to not enjoy the game.

study the fit of what killed you

You have two options:

a) learn to solo on your own

b) join an active FW corp


a) is hard but feasible. you don't need SP, just dedication. I know because I did it as a 1-month old player. lost dozens of ships, but killed a lot as well. still, I had an enormous amount of spare time (I could play 8+ hours a day every day)

b) is easy. just find an active corp that accepts newbros, there are several. from personal experience, when active FW PVP corps see war targets is when they undock, not the opposite . this isn't renter nullsec.

Be prepared to lose lots.

This I'm ok with, as long as I can see improvement along the way. It's the "You made the grave mistake of undocking. Lose your ship, and try again." factor of the fights that's a bit annoying.

At least for the moment I've got a huge buffer of ships to watch explode, which gives me time to get used to where to "stand", what buttons to press (no pun intended), which strategies only look good on paper, and which ship names mean which combat styles. And with the fact my fits are well under 1M, after insurance my cost per asploding is something like 200k ISK. Can't ask for a more sustainable learning cost than that.

I think for the moment my coping strategy is to EVE in bursts, stick to the Novice plexes to keep the T2 away, and continue to sit out my training until I can get some more T2 fittings of my own.

And definitely work to resist the temptation to start working on my L4 mission fits again.

After seeing a few more retention friendly choices made to EVE I decided to try my hand at internet spaceships again. I've always wanted to get into the PvP (specifically the pew-pew, not the industry/market/contract scamming).

From what I know, if I want fights I can:

1. Wander into Null and find an alliance to join.
2. Join RvB.
3. Join FW.

Alliance sounds like a lot of work, and commitment, and listening to people tell me that they really need a Minnie Logi pilot this week. Not happening. RvB sounds fun, but FW sounds like it pays for itself. Getting into fights without going broke sounds awesome.

This I'm ok with, as long as I can see improvement along the way. It's the "You made the grave mistake of undocking. Lose your ship, and try again." factor of the fights that's a bit annoying.

At least for the moment I've got a huge buffer of ships to watch explode, which gives me time to get used to where to "stand", what buttons to press (no pun intended), which strategies only look good on paper, and which ship names mean which combat styles. And with the fact my fits are well under 1M, after insurance my cost per asploding is something like 200k ISK. Can't ask for a more sustainable learning cost than that.

I think for the moment my coping strategy is to EVE in bursts, stick to the Novice plexes to keep the T2 away, and continue to sit out my training until I can get some more T2 fittings of my own.

And definitely work to resist the temptation to start working on my L4 mission fits again.

I agree with my militia bro Demerius that there's no point PVP-ing in 1M ships. Do not PVP without T2 weapons/fits, really.

I was talking about T2 modules

If you do not have very many skill points invested into pvp related areas, that is a problem which takes time to address.

corp-contract fit tackle frigates

Speaking of that, I had a couple of questions:

1. When you're talking about having support skills to IV, is that roughly the equivalent of the "Mastery IV" certificate for the ship? The one that lists 80 days of training necessary?
2. And on a less snarky note: what's the strategy for affording the more expensive fits. I know if I was running around in 5M fits I'd be bleeding cash. Is it literally to stop PvP for a few days and farm, or do you simply not die once you've reached the promised land of decent SP totals?

For the most part so was I. Though regardless of how "bad" T2 hulls are for PvP it doesn't mean they aren't out there. And I'd rather not try to bridge that stat gulf just yet, thus the thoughts on Novice plexes.

Which is the "Damn you CCP" theme from earlier. Long, long ago I would play MMOs and think "I wish I could just pay $60 to skip this leveling grind." And thus Free to Play was born. And somehow CCP managed to hold on to the business model of taking the $60 and making you grind anyway.

It's the thing that makes it so tempting to think that I can sneak some skills into the queue for something really boring, but is available to me in a week instead of three months. But then I think about doing that boring thing for months and it makes me want to go back to playing Witcher 3.

That part sounds boring as hell, but joining up with either them or a FW corp does sound more appealing all the time.

Most of your questions so far on the forums could be answered in minutes on coms/corp chat.

I am looking at increasing spending, but honestly it looks like I'm going to be several weeks out from having the skills to *fit* a 5M frigate anyway. For now, it's going to have to be a mix of PvE ISK grinding, defensive plexes and building muscle memory by exploding fully insured meta 0 hulls.

But I can't post on an alt in corp chat!

I am looking at increasing spending, but honestly it looks like I'm going to be several weeks out from having the skills to *fit* a 5M frigate anyway. For now, it's going to have to be a mix of PvE ISK grinding, defensive plexes and building muscle memory by exploding fully insured meta 0 hulls.

I've also got to say I've been impressed with the helpfulness and lack of smack talk both here and in game. While I'm sure a few of "gf" in local left "scrub" untyped, so far it's been nothing but polite and friendly.

And now that I've gone and jinxed it...

buy 5 of those ships and fit them exactly the same. Lose them all.

fit all meta 4 or 3 when the meta 4 is over 1 mil each.

are you a links alt?

but once you can fit and fly a decent cruiser or bc send me a mail if you like.

if you are PVPing with meta 2-4 guns/launchers, spending for a bit of faction ammunition is the way to go.

I'm going to have to come up with a better LP gaining strategy though. It's hard to plex for any length of time without getting chased off by FW, pirates, or just people looking for sweet loot.

Find an off pipe system and just warp out to a safe spot, wait for enemies to clear out, warp back. Make sure your dscan has combat probes on it.

I'm wondering how long "wait for enemies to clear out" normally takes. I've left system entirely for 20-30 minutes, only to find those same people still sitting in system waiting.

It's almost as if LP should be earned.

here's a protip: have a positive attitude.

Alright, that said... I'll be nicer from here on.

don't listen to ppl who sayt EvE is not for you if you aren't that social

I'm wondering how long "wait for enemies to clear out" normally takes. I've left system entirely for 20-30 minutes, only to find those same people still sitting in system waiting.

Anyway, I'm not saying that antisocial people don't / can't "learn2play" in EVE. I'm not super convinced those people are actually having *fun* ... but far be it from me to criticize anyone else's choice of content.

I'm not super convinced those people are actually having *fun*

Depends on the system and the people.

doesn't take long to reach.

...

within a month or two.

I don't think we have the same definition of "doesn't take long". Also, from this thread (and almost every fitting guide I've seen) a T2 fit isn't really considered mastery - that's just bare minimum cost of entry.

Which isn't to say I'm going to wait the entire 80-90 days for full Mastery IV certification. Just that EVE is one of the few games in existence which you can be paying to play for months before you're actually considered fit for "play".

Positions of high mastery are privileged in New Eden and take investment of time before they are available.

First, skillpoint and meta level isn't the end-all be-all of solo combat

Rules for solo PVP:

1) Fly, lose ships, makes mistakes
2) Learn from your mistakes
3) Study your opponents and Killboards
4) Get better, keep going
5) Start winning

Dude you definitely sound like you've already set out to find reasons to not enjoy the game.

And that is cool.

That being said if you want to pew pew with the best, you will have to die like the rest of us. Even the best FW alliances, corps and pilots lose thousands of ships a month. That is part of the reason why you see so many smaller ships in FW because the scale we get blown up on is staggering and in some cases a little more than new pilots can handle.

You are NOT your ship. Hell, you're not even your pod! Your ship is a consumable item you throw at the enemy in the hops of achieving your objective. It is like shooting at a target with a bullet, you want to hit the bullseye, but sometimes you wont, and that is OK after all it is just a bullet and you can easily get more.

Personally, if you're low SP and don't know much about EVE I really would not suggest trying to go solo because you just don't know what you're doing well enough to succeed. I've been in FW for over a year and I still barely know what I am doing well enough to properly and reliable win solo fights! (But I might just be bad)

If you insist on going solo, that is kick ass! But you'll need a lot of drive and determination because you will get your butt stomped a lot by better ships, better pilots and better tactics. Talk to the dudes who kill you, analyse what you did wrong. Did you not control range properly? Why was that? How could you do better next time? You need to constantly be asking yourself this to figure out how to become a bad ass.

A lot of FW corps are willing to help with that. As long as you're willing to put forward the effort to succeed.

This is when I shamelessly self-promote. Join Operation Meatshield.

No please do not recruit him! I wouldn't want to play with this kind of man who mill make myself depressed! Njooooooo

buy 80 T1 frig of your choice, go get it blown up, repeat.