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Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.11.17 18:56:00 - [1] Long range in general is not fun. With the current changes on Sisi of longrange T2 ammo maxing out at 80% range will result in long range fleet engagements maxing out at 180km. But the Rokh will be able to reach 250km with ease. In addition, we often see "scouts" checking gates at 500km with impunity. Bubbles can't stop them, and they don't even need a cloaking ship. By the time a ceptor can reach that range even a BS can easily warp out. Finally, CCP has announced that they don't like extreme range fights, and Tux is looking for a way to shorten ranges for battle. Suggestion; make any object, including hostile ships, have a "Warp to" option set at the range to be determined to be the max distance at which engagements should occur. This provides a soft cap that discourages sniping at a set range. This range could be any number determined to be balanced. Let's say it is 175km for example. No sniping fleet will engage at over 175km simply because the hostile tacklers could suddenly warp to them immediately if they exceed that range. No uncloaked scouts can warp in at 400km to check the gate. The "Warp to" number can be set so that while T2 ammos can give a definite edge (damage, and range bonus frees slots for Sensor booster, tracking comps, etc) they don't obviate the use of T1. It also keeps the new Rokh from becoming the sole ship in long range fleet engagments due to it's extreme range. In addition, this change would be minor in comparison to an overall turret range reduction as has been discussed by Tux and the Dev team in thier search for options. Thanks for your patience, and in advance for your well reasoned posts. Nyxus It's great being Amarr, ain't it?Ö Originally by: Tuxford I love how you guys can take stats from a test server that is few months out of date and then panic over them. Gee, wonder why..
Kharakan Amarr GREY COUNCIL Breidablik	Posted - 2006.11.17 19:02:00 - [2] I think this gets a /signed Originally by: Joshua Foiritain (to Dark Shikari) HAHAHA I KNOW YOUR ACCOUUNT NAME TIME TO DIE this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2006.11.17 19:04:00 - [3] Originally by: Nyxus Long range in general is fun. With the current changes on Sisi of longrange T2 ammo maxing out at 80% range will result in long range fleet engagements maxing out at 180km. But the Rokh will be able to reach 250km with ease. Thereby seperating the rohk and mega. mega closer range, high damage, rohk, less damge, higher range. In addition, we often see "scouts" checking gates at 500km with impunity. Bubbles can't stop them, unless you specificaly set up your bubbles to do so, and they don't even need a cloaking ship. By the time a ceptor in an ill prepared gang can reach that range even a BS can easily warp out. Finally, CCP has announced that they don't like extreme range fights, and Tux is looking for a way to shorten ranges for battle. Suggestion; make any object, including hostile ships, have a "Warp to" option set at the range to be determined to be the max distance at which engagements should occur. Therby making all caldari gunships bigger than a frigate obeselet. This provides a soft cap that discourages sniping at a set range. This range could be any number determined to be balanced. Let's say it is 175km for example. No sniping fleet will engage at over 175km simply because the hostile tacklers could suddenly warp to them immediately if they exceed that range. No uncloaked scouts can warp in at 400km to check the gate. The "Warp to" number can be set so that while T2 ammos can give a definite edge (damage, and range bonus frees slots for Sensor booster, tracking comps, etc) they don't obviate the use of T1. It also keeps the new Rokh from becoming the sole ship in long range fleet engagments due to it's extreme range. Unless there are enemy ammar ships out there, becuase to get to 250km, you aren't going to have that much of a resitance tank. In addition, this change would be minor in comparison to an overall turret range reduction as has been discussed by Tux and the Dev team in thier search for options. Thanks for your patience, and in advance for your well reasoned posts. Nyxus Fixed.
Nir Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.11.17 19:06:00 - [4] Audri, with your reasoning.. under the current rules, isn't Amarr obsolete? Who needs medium range when most PvP happens at <-20km or 100km->? :\|
Tranklukator	Posted - 2006.11.17 19:07:00 - [5] This will limit tactics, module & ship usage. And, by the way, have you thought of people who want to fight at range?
Kharakan Amarr GREY COUNCIL Breidablik	Posted - 2006.11.17 19:19:00 - [6] Originally by: Tranklukator This will limit tactics, module & ship usage. And, by the way, have you thought of people who want to fight at range? Whoo, not reading the OP ftw. Originally by: Joshua Foiritain (to Dark Shikari) HAHAHA I KNOW YOUR ACCOUUNT NAME TIME TO DIE this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer
Murukan Minmatar The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.11.17 19:31:00 - [7] /signed I really don't want to see fleets of rokhs being the only viable bship fleet And to people saying omg makes caldari obsolete, noobs read the op. just sit at omg 170km still plenty far away! Manlove by Zaphod Jones
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2006.11.17 19:31:00 - [8] Originally by: Nir Audri, with your reasoning.. under the current rules, isn't Amarr obsolete? Who needs medium range when most PvP happens at <-20km or 100km->? :\| warp in points? BM's? covert ops? thrasher with a MWD hauling but? how do you think close range ships land right on top of there victims? or even more ebil... = rohk's = victim's = gank tachy geddons -----220km--------------600km------ warps within 100km of problem solved. yes, there are problems for ammar in low sec, becuase of game mechanics. you are either right on top of your prey, or 200km off. So uhm here it goes... THERE IS NO REASON TO BE IN LOWSEC! EITHER STAY IN EMPIRE OR GO TO 0.0 Lowsec is trash.
Santa Anna	Posted - 2006.11.17 19:47:00 - [9] Originally by: Nyxus Let's say it is 175km for example. No sniping fleet will engage at over 175km simply because the hostile tacklers could suddenly warp to them immediately if they exceed that range. So if we use 175km then really no engagements beyond 125 km will occur becuase it'll be faster to run away for 50km then turn around and warp in? I'd think changing the effective maximum sniping distance by tweaking turret range and sensor booster effectiveness would be a better way of reducing engagement range without dramatically altering gameplay. I also don't have a problem with someone being able to scout ahead for gatecamps, but if this change were implemented they'd just scan/use probes to scout from a nearby planet or safespot, so all this would really do is allow tacklers to tackle without having to close which, in my opinion, would be extremely unbalancing and lead to poor, uninteresting gameplay. Quote: It also keeps the new Rokh from becoming the sole ship in long range fleet engagments due to it's extreme range. I wouldn't worry about that. A few more whines about the Rokh and Tux will violently sodomize it with the nerf bat, just like he did with the Drake. Pretty soon the Rokh will be shooting daisies and rainbows and won't be a legitimate threat to anyone.
Ihar Enda Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.17 19:54:00 - [10] I agree that something should be done to make fleet fights more fun, here is my idea.

Santa Anna	Posted - 2006.11.17 19:56:00 - [11] Originally by: Murukan /signed I really don't want to see fleets of rokhs being the only viable bship fleet Sorry, but it's inevitable. The Rokh will be the only viable BS choice just like the Moa is the only viable cruiser choice and the Ferox is the only viable BC choice. There's no point in even talking about it as a slow ship with a range and resistance bonus is the only kind of ship worth owning and is completely impossible to beat.
Murukan Minmatar The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.11.17 20:02:00 - [12] Originally by: Santa Anna Originally by: Murukan /signed I really don't want to see fleets of rokhs being the only viable bship fleet Sorry, but it's inevitable. The Rokh will be the only viable BS choice just like the Moa is the only viable cruiser choice and the Ferox is the only viable BC choice. There's no point in even talking about it as a slow ship with a range and resistance bonus is the only kind of ship worth owning and is completely impossible to beat. Uhh what a stupid response on your part. Sniping moas aren't overpowered because any bship can come along and *** slap it pretty quick, same with a ferox. Now tell me what exactly are we going to have to use to counter a rokh at the 220km range? I dunno haven't ran the numbers, but maybe the answer is we need dreads right! Manlove by Zaphod Jones**
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2006.11.17 20:19:00 - [13] Originally by: Murukan /signed I really don't want to see fleets of rokhs being the only viable bship fleet And to people saying omg makes caldari obsolete, noobs read the op. just sit at omg 170km still plenty far away! It does make the rohk obselte, why use a rohk at 170km when a mega has more dps and get's better quality hits?
Santa Anna	Posted - 2006.11.17 20:25:00 - [14] Originally by: Murukan Originally by: Santa Anna Originally by: Murukan /signed I really don't want to see fleets of rokhs being the only viable bship fleet Sorry, but it's inevitable. The Rokh will be the only viable BS choice just like the Moa is the only viable cruiser choice and the Ferox is the only viable BC choice. There's no point in even talking about it as a slow ship with a range and resistance bonus is the only kind of ship worth owning and is completely impossible to beat. Uhh what a stupid response on your part. Sniping moas aren't overpowered because any bship can come along and ***** slap it pretty quick, same with a ferox. Now tell me what exactly are we going to have to use to counter a rokh at the 220km range? I dunno haven't ran the numbers, but maybe the answer is we need dreads right! So when not facing Battleships Moas and Feroxes are the best ships? Or perhaps that range bonus just doesn't make a huge difference. The Rokh has a range bonus, but other ships are faster and have tracking and/or damage bonuses. I doubt you'll see Rokhs being preferred over faster, higher damage, more accurate ships once the dust settles. Or is the superiority of this bonus only apparent in this very narrow, very rare situation? If that's the case, why give the bonus only to disembowel that style of combat? Space is big. You should have to shoot at people from more than 30km away from time to time. Deal with it. Or we could just replace the 425mm T2 railgun with the 425mm T2 featherduster and give all Caldari ships a +10% hangar cleaning bonus per level, because if this kind of idiocy keeps up no Caldari ship will ever leave the hangar. Would that make you happy?
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.11.17 21:11:00 - [15] Let me see if I can address some of these things. First lets talk about Santas flawed comparison. Originally by: Santa Anna The Rokh will be the only viable BS choice just like the Moa is the only viable cruiser choice and the Ferox is the only viable BC choice......Or perhaps that range bonus just doesn't make a huge difference. The Rokh will be the only viable BS choice because after Kali for long range fights because the Rokh is the only type of BS that will be able to fire on a target 190km+. If a hostile fleet of Rokhs sit @ 220km, the ONLY ship capabale of firing back (non-capital) is another Rokh. And that is a very big problem. Anyone old enough to remember fleet fights prior to T2 ammo knows that as soon as T2 100% ammo was implemented, the only BS needed in fleets were ones that could use T2 ammo. Because they were the only ones who could fire back The Moa and the Ferox at range aren't a problem becuase other ships can shoot back at them at those ranges. Not so with the Rokh. But tbh you know this. I believe your flawed comparison disingenuous at best, maliciously deceptive at worst. Originally by: Audri Fisher It does make the rohk obselte, why use a rohk at 170km when a mega has more dps and get's better quality hits? This is a much better question. Why use a Rokh over a Mega @ 170km? Rokh can use T1 while a Mega must use T2. Take a stack of 8 T1 425s and a stack of 7 425IIs with 1000 spike ammo. Right click and trash all three. What hurt your wallet more? Cost effectiveness of a fighting unit is important. With the incredible range bonus, the Rokh does not need any mod that increases range thereby freeing slots for things like sensorbooster, resist mods, or large shield extenders. With Kali a couple of large shield extenders can mean the difference between getting out in structure or in your pod Training. Caldari don't have to have the BEST sniper. So what if the mega has slightly more dps and/or alpha. The Rokh is a VERY good ship in its roll and it lets caldari join a turret fleet without having to train another races ships. A soft cap of 175km, or whatever is determined as balanced, doesn't make the Rokh useless, or really even reduce it's usefulness. It does keep large blobs of Rokhs from sitting at 225km killing every other type ship with impunity since they can't return fire. We have seen the EXACT corollary with T2 ammo. It will happen simply becuase it provides a strong tactical advantage to those who will utilize it. Nyxus Originally by: keepiru I couldn't imagine a stronger signal of just how pants 3/4 of the new BS are than the fact that Mataris will be training Amarr BS and Amarrians will be training Large Projectile to use
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2006.11.17 21:17:00 - [16] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 17/11/2006 21:17:40 Originally by: Nyxus We have seen the EXACT corollary with T2 ammo. It will happen simply becuase it provides a strong tactical advantage to those who will utilize it. If someone is going to try and prove Nyxus wrong, I believe he should start with this statement (not going to happen in other words). NB. In Rust We Trust
Santa Anna	Posted - 2006.11.17 21:40:00 - [17] Originally by: Nyxus The Rokh will be the only viable BS choice because after Kali for long range fights because the Rokh is the only type of BS that will be able to fire on a target 190km+. If a hostile fleet of Rokhs sit @ 220km, the ONLY ship capabale of firing back (non-capital) is another Rokh. And that is a very big problem. I outrange other cruisers in my Moa. Other cruisers (and frigs) still can and do kill my Moa. Why? Because my Moa is slow, has relatively poor tracking, and does relatively little damage. The Rokh isn't (yet) crippled with low grid or a lack of turret hardpoints, but it suffers from the same problems. If your foe has set up Rokhs 220 km from a gate you have a speed advantage on him so you can close the distance. You can also run a frig up and warp to it. If the devs want to take this range advantage out of the game then give the Rokh something useful instead. If they do that, though, then this idea of yours is moot. The only thing your idea would do would be to make tacklers and short range/high damage ships invincible on approach, as they'd always be faster than the target and thus would always be able to get to the range necessary to warp to their target Invincible = bad. To the extent that having one ship have a range advantage on the others is bad, this solution would be far worse.
Santa Anna	Posted - 2006.11.17 21:43:00 - [18] How about have all ships do the same damage at the same range with the same speed and have the same picture. Here: + pew pew game over. no more need to play, that's all there is. have a good night folks.
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2006.11.17 21:51:00 - [19] Originally by: Santa Anna How about have all ships do the same damage at the same range with the same speed and have the same picture. That's practically what is going to happen with the rokh, gg. NB. In Rust We Trust
Christopher Dalran	Posted - 2006.11.17 21:53:00 - [20] Why not change how a MWD functions? Why not let a MWD allow you warp any distance longer than 50km in addition to increasing flight speed.

Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.11.17 21:57:00 - [21] Originally by: Christopher Dalran Why not change how a MWD functions? Why not let a MWD allow you warp any distance longer than 50km in addition to increasing flight speed. Any change that could possibly come before Kali must be relatively simple to implement. Rather than change the game mechanics of a module and all ships they fit on, this requires only (relatively) simple database changes. Kali is coming very quickly. And with them fleets of Rokhs. A solution needs to be able to be implemented with a very limited design/testing cycle. Nyxus Originally by: keepiru I cant imagine a stronger signal of how pants 3/4 of new BS are than the fact that Matari will be training Amarr BS and Amarrians will be training Large Projectile to use the same ship
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2006.11.17 21:57:00 - [22] Originally by: Santa Anna If your foe has set up Rokhs 220 km from a gate you have a speed advantage on him so you can close the distance. You can also run a frig up and warp to it. If the devs want to take this range advantage out of the game then give the Rokh something useful instead. If they do that, though, then this idea of yours is moot. The only thing your idea would do would be to make tacklers and short range/high damage ships invincible on approach, as they'd always be faster than the target and thus would always be able to get to the range necessary to warp to their target Invincible = bad. I don't do much fleet combat, but even I know that what you just posted is a bunch of total bull***. Ever heard of something called aligning? - It's great being Minmatar, ain't it?*
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2006.11.17 22:00:00 - [23] Originally by: Nyxus Originally by: Christopher Dalran Why not change how a MWD functions? Why not let a MWD allow you warp any distance longer than 50km in addition to increasing flight speed. Any change that could possibly come before Kali must be relatively simple to implement. Rather than change the game mechanics of a module and all ships they fit on, this requires only (relatively) simple database changes. Kali is coming very quickly. And with them fleets of Rokhs. A solution needs to be able to be implemented with a very limited design/testing cycle. Nyxus You have to admit though, that is a really nice idea. I give my approval to it. - It's great being Minmatar, ain't it?
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.11.17 22:05:00 - [24] Originally by: Tasty Burger Originally by: Nyxus Originally by: Christopher Dalran Why not change how a MWD functions? Why not let a MWD allow you warp any distance longer than 50km in addition to increasing flight speed. Any change that could possibly come before Kali must be relatively simple to implement. Rather than change the game mechanics of a module and all ships they fit on, this requires only (relatively) simple database changes. Kali is coming very quickly. And with them fleets of Rokhs. A solution needs to be able to be implemented with a very limited design/testing cycle. Nyxus You have to admit though, that is a really nice idea. I give my approval to it. /agreed. It is a VERY interesting proposal, and would definitely help provide incentives to fit MWD over Afterburners. And I wouldn't mind seeing it come into the game. My only real concern is development time. If it takes 6 months before it's implemented thats half a year of Rokh only fleets. And that would suck. Nyxus Originally by: keepiru I cant imagine a stronger signal of how pants 3/4 of new BS are than the fact that Matari will be training Amarr BS and Amarrians will be training Large Projectile to use the same ship
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.11.17 22:12:00 - [25] T2 amo is broken, yes. And range bonuses on a BS are bad. The rest, I completely disagree. You want to make any sort of ranged combat pointless (PS, same grid = a bubble will catch on the right heading...). You force scouting to a few select people who can afford the overpriced, broken multi-step production line for T2 cloaks. All this will seriously reduce the amount of PvP. The change is far more fundermental than a small readjustment of engagement scales. And mroeover, you're using a pointlessly blunt instrument - the actual issues are that T2 amo should not be longer ranged than T2, and BS sized ships should not have range bonuses. //Maya
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2006.11.17 22:12:00 - [26] Originally by: Naughty Boy Edited by: Naughty Boy on 17/11/2006 21:17:40 Originally by: Nyxus We have seen the EXACT corollary with T2 ammo. It will happen simply becuase it provides a strong tactical advantage to those who will utilize it. If someone is going to try and prove Nyxus wrong, I believe he should start with this statement (not going to happen in other words). NB. you are missing some points here NB. Tracking. A mega with 2 tracking comps can hit an Intie, but just. A rohk isn't going to have a chance in hell. lack of tank. shield extenders don't have the same hp increase that armor plates do. throw on 2 sensor booster's and 2 tracking comps and what happens? you have a 2 slot hp tank... the rohk also has PG issues, it can't fit a full rack of it's biggest guns w/o fitting mods. You haven't even begun to fill up the rest of the slots. another point is that currently, the real range differnce between the current snipping BS's isn't that great. So a FC can use one range to warp his fleet into. You know the saying "a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link" . your fleet is aonly as good as the max range of your lowest range ships. so either EVERYBODY trains up tech II large rails, shield tanking skills and caldari BS 5, or you warp into a range that ALL your guns will hit. Guess which one will happen? When tech II ammo came out, it was different because the only real change that had to be done was switch ammo types. the skills didn't change, and the setups didn't change all that much.
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2006.11.17 22:28:00 - [27] Originally by: Maya Rkell T2 amo is broken, yes. And range bonuses on a BS are bad. The rest, I completely disagree. You want to make any sort of ranged combat pointless (PS, same grid = a bubble will catch on the right heading...). You force scouting to a few select people who can afford the overpriced, broken multi-step production line for T2 cloaks. All this will seriously reduce the amount of PvP. The change is far more fundermental than a small readjustment of engagement scales. And mroeover, you're using a pointlessly blunt instrument - the actual issues are that T2 amo should not be longer ranged than T2, and BS sized ships should not have range bonuses. what other bonuses are appropriate for a caldari gunship then that doesn't make the mega pointless? 5% damage makes mega pointless 7.5% tracking means that they are the same. 10% reduction to hybrid cap usage? <-- just say no :P this will make the rohk overpowered in small to mid sized engagements, with tech II shield boost amps comming out. There are only so many differnt combinates before you start stepping on other peoples toes. Range bonuses on ships that are very slow/handle like a pigare a double edged sword, it means that you have a very good edge when you get to dictate range that engagement starts at, but it also means you are instatly BBQ'd at the same range by anything bigger than you.
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2006.11.17 22:33:00 - [28] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 17/11/2006 22:34:59 Originally by: Audri Fisher you are missing some points here NB. Quite frankly, not at all. Originally by: Audri Fisher Tracking. A mega with 2 tracking comps can hit an Intie, but just. A rohk isn't going to have a chance in hell. And that's relevant how ? It's still going to track better than my tempest and it doesn't really matter because obviously you'll only start shooting inties when everything else is dead or out of range. The FC wants me to shoot the primary, not some random interceptor for the sake of it, that's what support is for. Originally by: Audri Fisher lack of tank. shield extenders don't have the same hp increase that armor plates do. throw on 2 sensor booster's and 2 tracking comps and what happens? you have a 2 slot hp tank... the rohk also has PG issues, it can't fit a full rack of it's biggest guns w/o fitting mods. You haven't even begun to fill up the rest of the slots. That's completely moot because I can't fit much on my tempest either. It's 6 1400mm II, named mwd, 3 sensor boosters II, 1 tracking computer II, 2 tracking enhancer II, 3 gyro II, RCU II, random stuffs in the 2 high. No tank at all, 170km optimal and 40ish km falloff. Less sensor boosters or tracking computers/enhancers means that I can't hit at all past 200-220km, the best I could ever do is scrap a sensor booster and rely on gang skills to get a good enough locking range. Moreover, the resistance bonus + large shield extender is better than a plate. Finally, the maelstorm gets the most useless fleet bonuses ever, so there's no point using it in the comparison. I have caldari bs 4 trained and t2 large Hybrids are not that far away so I'll not get left behind, tyvm. Originally by: Audri Fisher another point is that currently, the real range differnce between the current snipping BS's isn't that great. So a FC can use one range to warp his fleet into. You know the saying "a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link" . your fleet is aonly as good as the max range of your lowest range ships. so either EVERYBODY trains up tech II large rails, shield tanking skills and caldari BS 5, or you warp into a range that ALL your guns will hit. Guess which one will happen? The last one, in the fleets I'm flying in, we already have about 4 times more megathrons than tempests and 4 times more tempests than amarr BSes. Many pilots have good caldari BS skills from npc'ing or the scorp. 20% of the pilots will have a harder time to adapt than the others, that is all. Originally by: Audri Fisher When tech II ammo came out, it was different because the only real change that had to be done was switch ammo types. the skills didn't change, and the setups didn't change all that much. All I can say is that it is more useful to train the next FOTY than to bring an useless ship a year long. NB. In Rust We Trust
Laboratus Gallente BGG Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.17 22:39:00 - [29] At the moment, to fight effectively against a long range fleet with a short range fleet you need to do some scouting. Yes, making BMs around the gates mapping the general area you wish to fight in. Making BMs is a way of play and an occupation in eve. The OP suggestion would obsolete them and make them irrelevant. So, I oppose. The OP would reduce the advantage gained from planning ahead by making preparations (getting the BMs) So, I oppose. The OP would make cov ops as maneuver scouts redundand,. So, I oppose. At the moment. If you have made the BMs around the gate area, you have a tactical advantage. This would disapear with the change in the op. So, I oppose. All I gotto say about it. Kthxbye ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.11.17 22:39:00 - [30] Originally by: Audri Fisher Originally by: Maya Rkell T2 amo is broken, yes. And range bonuses on a BS are bad. The rest, I completely disagree. You want to make any sort of ranged combat pointless (PS, same grid = a bubble will catch on the right heading...). You force scouting to a few select people who can afford the overpriced, broken multi-step production line for T2 cloaks. All this will seriously reduce the amount of PvP. The change is far more fundermental than a small readjustment of engagement scales. And mroeover, you're using a pointlessly blunt instrument - the actual issues are that T2 amo should not be longer ranged than T2, and BS sized ships should not have range bonuses. what other bonuses are appropriate for a caldari gunship then that doesn't make the mega pointless? I agree its an issue, but a range bonus is the most broken of the possibilities. //Maya



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