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Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.11.18 09:02:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 18/11/2006 09:06:22 Dear CCP,
I don't think that I am alone when I say that I would very much like to see a synopsis of what you all have planned for this game in Kali and beyond. I would like to know a bit of what you have in mind.
"Why", you ask?
We are your loyal customers. I am no veteran (in fact I consider myself to be a complete noob compared to some of the guys in my alliance), but I have had my main account for a year. I have a second account as well which I started just a few months ago. There are many players who have been loyal customers for several years.
We are getting frustrated however. I know I'm getting frustrated because I've spent the whole year trying to specialize for a certain type of ship with a certain type of weapon just so that I can have a chance of "catching up" with the "big dogs" so that I can be found useful in an alliance and/or PVP corp. And now it looks like I've trained the "wrong" things; because what I've specialized in looks to be getting seriously screwed in Kali.
But that isn't all. There are so many things in Kali for which people don't understand the reasoning or balance. All means of escape strategies are being removed. Instead of blob warfare being discouraged, it is being advocated. ECM still wins, NOS still wins. In fact, when NOS is nerfed, it will completely screw a whole other class of ships. Personally I'm not too happy about the newfound power of scanning/probing - while I know it needed to be boosted, I'm just not sure it needed to be boosted this much. I could go on for such a long time about things people "WTF?!?!" about daily.
This isn't just a game where we pay for access to the game. It is a game where we literally pay to advance, due to the "realtime" nature of skill training. Therefore this isn't a game like WOW (*barf* ) where one dissatisfied with her/his character can powerlevel a new hunter. This isn't an issue of "adapt or die", because you can't change what you've already trained for. As a result, balance is so incredibly important - not just from the aspect of the future of the game, but for the preservation of past effort.
I would like to see a plan. Obviously you have a new concept of balance in mind. Clue us in! Are you trying to skew balance of "races" to introduce some sort of forced roleplay element in faction warfare? Tell us, please! Do you realize the existence of the excrutiating imbalances that are pointed out here every day? ...or do these imbalances even exist? ...or do you care? We would like a retort; a rebuttal if you will; to our criticisms. We would like to see a "proof" of why we are wrong, if indeed we are. Where are you guys going with all of this? I'm sure you have a long list of "issues" that we have, so I won't bother to make that list here. If you like, I'll spend all night making that list just so you can present your "side".
I also understand enough about the software process to know that "Kali" is undertested. Reports are still pouring in. People testing the game are reporting that there are some things that are seriously screwed up in the balance. "Kali" hasn't received enough beta time. You need more time. This has been demonstrated by the fact that RMR has content that was originally slated for "Kali" - following the splitting of "Kali" into several more parts.
I love this game. I know that the rest of us here do as well. There are many of us (including myself) who have found a game that we believe we could play for many more years to come (after giving up hope on most if not all other MMOs). We only ask this much: gratify your loyal customers. Tell us what you have planned for us.
I encourage other community members to keep this thread bumped so we can be sure that CCP sees this. I encourage the community to not squabble in the pages to follow. We want to know what is going on. We want to know that we aren't getting screwed.
Thank you.
Signed, Your loyal customers \o/
EDIT: spelling
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Cordova
Caldari Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.11.18 09:10:00 -
[2]
Signed! -----------------------------------------------
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Orchyre
Minmatar The Kennels
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Posted - 2006.11.18 09:16:00 -
[3]
Absolutely amazing post.
Well written and to the point.
I feel the exact same way, and like you, would like some feedback.
We've been left in the dark for a lot of these changes, so it would be nice to know of future ones. ____ http://eve-tribune.com/ - A weekly fan-run magazine.
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Tiuwaz
Minmatar Omacron Militia
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Posted - 2006.11.18 09:38:00 -
[4]
not signed
1) dont train for something thats going to implemented 1/2 a year later, cause there is now way you could have known if it sucks or not, you betted on it and lost perhaps, not CCP's fault (i betted on the new minni BS to be a BS sized stabber and trained BS 5 oh boy did i loose that one )
2) test server is limited many balance issues wont show themselves in their true form until it hits TQ
3) you can only test so much, there is no perfect release
4) CCP wont delay the release so they wont miss the christmas market to atttract new players and old players to reactivate their accounts, thats a simple business reason
5) for all the *****ing there is, there is also loads of great stuff
Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
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Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.11.18 09:46:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 18/11/2006 09:46:25
Originally by: Tiuwaz not signed
1) dont train for something thats going to implemented 1/2 a year later, cause there is now way you could have known if it sucks or not, you betted on it and lost perhaps, not CCP's fault (i betted on the new minni BS to be a BS sized stabber and trained BS 5 oh boy did i loose that one )
I didn't train for something that would be implemented 1/2 year later. I trained for what I picked. Period. Now I (and others) are being screwed. Read the post.
Quote: 2) test server is limited many balance issues wont show themselves in their true form until it hits TQ
Unfortunately, this is probably true. More time would help this. Also more feedback would help this. Knowing what they are trying to accomplish would help, too.
Quote: 3) you can only test so much, there is no perfect release
Indeed, no perfect releases. However, there are releases where not enough has been done. This is such a case.
Quote: 4) CCP wont delay the release so they wont miss the christmas market to atttract new players and old players to reactivate their accounts, thats a simple business reason
Since CCP doesn't release a "box" for the expansions like WOW, EQ, etc; they don't rely on the "Christmas rush" like they do. Hence this argument holds no water. Their expansions are free, as is the client. You pay only for the subscription.
Quote: 5) for all the *****ing there is, there is also loads of great stuff
Doesn't mean that it is balanced or contributing to a more solid and balanced game.
Thanks for the free bump, anyway.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Tiuwaz
Minmatar Omacron Militia
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Posted - 2006.11.18 09:52:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Quote: 4) CCP wont delay the release so they wont miss the christmas market to atttract new players and old players to reactivate their accounts, thats a simple business reason
Since CCP doesn't release a "box" for the expansions like WOW, EQ, etc; they don't rely on the "Christmas rush" like they do. Hence this argument holds no water. Their expansions are free, as is the client. You pay only for the subscription.
you wrong here, in mmo's many players who stopped playing will start paying subscription anew to check out the new expansion to see if they start playing regularily again or just to play around with the new stuff
a new expansion is also always a good marketing foothold to attract new players, also remember that with kali will coome a boost to newly created chars in numbers of skills and skillpoints
the biggest effect you can get with such expansions would be before christmas when ppl decide on which to spend their time and money
Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
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Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.11.18 11:13:00 -
[7]
Bumping before going to bed, hopefully this can coast for a while more, not a lot of people on atm I guess.
157 reads and only a couple replies?
Hell, the guy that said "I'm a 3 year vet and I'm quitting" had 500+ reads and way more replies.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Ihar Enda
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.18 11:29:00 -
[8]
Signed, great post.
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv This isn't just a game where we pay for access to the game. It is a game where we literally pay to advance, due to the "realtime" nature of skill training. Therefore this isn't a game like WOW (*barf* ) where one dissatisfied with her/his character can powerlevel a new hunter. This isn't an issue of "adapt or die", because you can't change what you've already trained for. As a result, balance is so incredibly important - not just from the aspect of the future of the game, but for the preservation of past effort.
T2 large blaster ammo comes to mind, which I have trained for the last couple of months..
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Fortior
STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.18 11:40:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 18/11/2006 09:46:25
Originally by: Tiuwaz not signed
1) dont train for something thats going to implemented 1/2 a year later, cause there is now way you could have known if it sucks or not, you betted on it and lost perhaps, not CCP's fault (i betted on the new minni BS to be a BS sized stabber and trained BS 5 oh boy did i loose that one )
I didn't train for something that would be implemented 1/2 year later. I trained for what I picked. Period. Now I (and others) are being screwed. Read the post.
Your OP comes down one thing, and one thing only. You blame CCP for not having picked the perfect balance from the get-go; you were forced to make a choice on what to train and now your choice turned out to be, well, wrong. The logical thing would be of course to blame CCP for this horrendous crime. They should 1. in their omniscient position either get the balance perfect or 2. atleast not change the balancing at all.
Option 1. is an utopia, and has been proven impossible. Devs didn't foresee the use of bookmarking to create instas - players will always find loopholes and take advantage of ship designs in ways that were not planned at all. The early days of Ravens fitting lasers to great effect come to mind.
Alright, option 2. then - for all intents and purposes it'd become a static game. If for instance Ravens and torps hadn't been changed, what do you think we would see almost exclusively out in space? It'd be even worse than it already is. If new content would be added it'd either be overpowered, causing everyone to 'jump ship' to that new way of playing or it'd be underpowered, leading to noone using it at all. And a static game = death for sure.
This game of balancing is an effect of the impossibility of foreseeing all consequences from adding new content. The consequence of the balancing act is the 'lottery' - what will be useful in the future? - that you seem to suffer under. And the remedy to this you ask? Well, there is none. Just pick a course and stay on it. The alternative to the balancing act is pretty much death, so I know what I choose.
/me switches to Large Railgun Specialization 4. Interestingly enough, I started training for that from scratch almost 6 months ago... Good things come to those who persevere.
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Doc Extropy
Gallente Cradle of Freedom Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.18 11:47:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Fortior Good things come to those who persevere.
...which will be my sig now. Thanks.
Originally by: Fortior Good things come to those who persevere.
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Elvarien
Caldari The Night's Watch THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2006.11.18 13:55:00 -
[11]
People whine and whine and whine mostly because they do not know why a certain change was made to their 'baby' their favourite weapon ship game mechanic. Now its impossible to tie a dev to a chair and ask him the reasoning behind every little subject that gets whined about but there are a few main topics that keep popping up if a dev could take lets say ... 10 minutes to post a reply or even an indication hes read this topic and might if he feels like it reply with a blog or whatnot [minor feedback] a lot of people would be very happy.
Sidenote: I know the devs already go above and beyond by replying to a lot of whines but a quick and dirty few statements on the main topics would clear up lots of fog. >----
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Hein
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.18 13:57:00 -
[12]
Bump, bump.
Good post btw. We would like to get inside of CCp's plans. ----------------------------------------------- "It's good to play Caldari Online, isn't it?" "Pray to GOD, only he can save! Devs cant, and wont do it!!!" |
Valandril
Caldari Eve guardians Knights Of Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.18 14:15:00 -
[13]
/signed Grat post mate
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Ruze
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.18 14:23:00 -
[14]
I look forward to any reply CCP has.
Whatever it is, it won't make you happy.
They know it, and we live with it. For a developer, I'd think reading the forums would be the worst possible way to spend their day. So many -ssholes and know-it-alls, constantly throwing insults and questioning their judgement?
Yeah, no way I'd do it, cause I'd end up doing something else 'stupid' and deleting certain players' accounts, or hiring some group in game to grief the idiotic mother f-cker till he REALLY quits.
Just my take on the 'loyal playerbase.'
Genesis Project |
infraX
Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull
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Posted - 2006.11.18 14:43:00 -
[15]
Edited by: infraX on 18/11/2006 14:45:36 I did write out a big post but then I decided not to post it.
Bottom line is, everything goes in swings and roundabouts and anyone that is specialised in one race can't expect to always be flying flavour of the month ships. Either retrain every time something else is flavour of the month or adapt by figuring out how to make what you have work with the new changes.
I chose Gallente very early on and have stuck with them. It was only quite recently that blasters had their CPU and Cap usage tweaked that allowed people to fit blasterthrons in a way that didn't make people laugh at your setup. So it's had its time in the sun, but I think the way Kali is looking with more hp and longer fights, cap will be an issue early on in the fight and well, maybe it won't be such a great ship anymore. Who knows. I will adapt and survive when the time comes and I think you need to do this too.
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MinRray
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.11.18 15:35:00 -
[16]
leaving out any tehnical data about ships / damage types / capacitor usage and so on ... i also believe that CCP should not keep its clients in the dark ... at least lie to us and make us happy for a while :)
"war ... war never changes" |
Soulita
Gallente Inner Core
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Posted - 2006.11.18 16:06:00 -
[17]
/not signed
good reasoning in the OPs post, but he overlooks that stating exactly and officialy what you will do in the future limits what you can do.
Why? Because once you have said I will do this or that people expect you to do it. Once you find a better way you are still stuck with what you promised.
Better keep development open, without getting into too much detail about what is planned. This way flexibility for improvement remains.
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Osiris Warp
Spectral Armada Eternal Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.18 16:08:00 -
[18]
good post its getting ppl thinking and discussing. Wich is really good to see helps make alot of the test server stuff run alot better thats wat testing is for to get ppl talking and figuring out bugs and possible problems (balance related or other wise).
Member of Eternal Empire
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Jaguar Dragon
Blood Association of Dragons
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Posted - 2006.11.18 16:31:00 -
[19]
i find it amazing that kali is so bad, lag, bug. ccp said along time ago that kali programing started aug of 2005. original release dates were kali 1, late quarter 2 2006, in my book that was june past. kali 2 was dec. 2006, kali 3 april 2007. at least 2 months ago ccp announced that the mojority of kali 1 was complete and most of the programers moved on to kali 2. so, just what the heck is going on. i'm probably wrong here to think were being lied to. i sure hope i'm wrong. however i can only judge from what i see and hear. ccp's thoughts have always been total silence. i say here now thats not working. it's time to explain and in detail. i don't know if i'm the only one who's noticed, but ever since june when kali was then rescheduled for sept. players have and are still leaving eve. it's heading on to dec and kali 1 has been reduced in content from what was originaly announced. to what i see to be nothing more than more ships and stuff for pvp combat. however thats not new content. i would realy like to know in detail whats going on. i am paying for this, i think i'm not asking for to much
Jaguar Dragon CEO [BAD-1] Blood Association of Dragons
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Crewman Jenkins
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Posted - 2006.11.18 16:50:00 -
[20]
Xori, good post.
MinRray, fallout is awesome. :)
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Scarpman
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Posted - 2006.11.18 18:18:00 -
[21]
Signed.
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kalath1032
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Posted - 2006.11.18 18:32:00 -
[22]
ONe thing i watn CCP to stop doing is double nerrfing when they have a test server! why not do it in stages take the lastest nerfs the hurricane and drake
Take the drake for example why not remove one missle hardpoint then WAIT to see what happens sere if it makes it balanced? if Not then do the second part! BUT NOT BOTH AT THE SAME TIME!
Just to let you known i know im not a vet and a big nub but still its obvious that they tried to balance it in the wrong way
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Goca
Minmatar Steel Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.18 19:15:00 -
[23]
/signed the best thing they could do right now is put Kali on a extended test run. heck go so far as get rid of an actual schedule, make sure the stupid thing works before implementing it.
and yes ffs stop with the double nerfs to everything, you have a fricking test server with people on it, use it! if you see 90% of the people complaining something is not right, then change it a little at a time, you will never get 100% satisfaction, but going from 90% saying to strong, to 90% saying to weak is retarded, cripes 10% disatisfied is better then 90%.... I is Goca |
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.11.18 21:57:00 -
[24]
I just woke up. Bump!
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Fortior
STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.18 22:00:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv I just woke up. Bump!
Straight up bumps will be deleted, authors may be warned.
So your post will be deleted, as will this
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Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.11.18 22:26:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Fortior
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv I just woke up. Bump!
Straight up bumps will be deleted, authors may be warned.
So your post will be deleted, as will this
Oops :/ I thought bumping was allowed once a day.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
DHU InMe
Gallente JUSTICE Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.18 23:12:00 -
[27]
Explain what ?
It all written !
What they are tweaking/fixing: Testing
What they are developing: Developping
What they* or lot of people suggested going to develop: Planned Features __ Eve Links Got a new idea ? (Last updated 9 Mai 06) |
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.11.18 23:42:00 -
[28]
Originally by: DHU InMe Explain what ?
It all written !
What they are tweaking/fixing: Testing
What they are developing: Developping
What they* or lot of people suggested going to develop: Planned Features
Again, someone misses the point.
Quite obviously that is not what I'm talking about. I mentioned some things specifically.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
HankMurphy
Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror
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Posted - 2006.11.19 00:53:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Ruze I look forward to any reply CCP has.
Whatever it is, it won't make you happy.
They know it, and we live with it. For a developer, I'd think reading the forums would be the worst possible way to spend their day. So many -ssholes and know-it-alls, constantly throwing insults and questioning their judgement?
Yeah, no way I'd do it, cause I'd end up doing something else 'stupid' and deleting certain players' accounts, or hiring some group in game to grief the idiotic mother f-cker till he REALLY quits.
Just my take on the 'loyal playerbase.'
agreed. if i was a dev and read half this shyte ppl spew, i would be taking names and crashing nodes at incredibly inconvinient times.
then i would personally respond to their petitions telling them i was glad they lost their raven on a lvl 4 and NO i wont replace it.
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Jazen
Caldari Shadow Tribe
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Posted - 2006.11.19 02:01:00 -
[30]
Won't even go into the SHEER amount of logistics and chaos it would cause to even get out half the info they throw back and forth while planning and testing a new expansion. The number of man-hours alone would be staggering as you'd need an entire department just to gather, anaylze, and disperse the info to everyone. -Semper Fi- |
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