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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
BrundleMeth
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
437
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Posted - 2015.06.06 10:51:46 -
[61] - Quote
Dade Corban wrote:New overview and icons are difficult and problematic. I hesitate at the login screen.
We told you in test server feedback this was ****.
Please revert.
They don't "really" want your feedback... |
Don Pera Saissore
38
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Posted - 2015.06.06 10:56:17 -
[62] - Quote
When they showed the preview at fanfest they said that npc ships will have a small cross in the upper right side of the icon because color blind people need to be able to quickly distinguish them form player ships. i have no idea why they didnt implement that. |
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
268
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 11:04:36 -
[63] - Quote
supported. +1 please fix ASAP!
this is a game breaker and needs a revert like yesterday! |
Bernard Dupont
C0NATUS
Echoes of Nowhere
7
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Posted - 2015.06.06 11:11:58 -
[64] - Quote
+1 support
CCP should do something to help |
Shmaury
Dirt 'n' Glitter
0
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Posted - 2015.06.06 11:20:40 -
[65] - Quote
I Also have red-green issues, wich is not such a huge problem in this game for distinction (u can change the corp member colours etc) but another consequence is that the red icons cause a sort of 'bleed' now wich is very irritating to look at and make it very difficult to get a proper overview of the different kind of npc icons because i notice that my eyes have a lot of trouble defining the shape of the icons due to that 'bleed' effect. As colourblind options are getting quite common in games i would love to get some respons on this issue. |
McBorsk
Multispace Technologies Inc
Yulai Federation
57
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Posted - 2015.06.06 11:35:18 -
[66] - Quote
Supported.
Fix the scaling issue as well, please. |
SalubriousSky Rinah
Cryptic Spear
32
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Posted - 2015.06.06 12:20:25 -
[67] - Quote
It's almost as though there is an internal memorandum at CCP, requiring employees to constantly develop 'new ideas' in order to maintain their employment at the company.
And unfortunately for the players, this is hurting the game significantly.
To give an example, and I can't quite remember which hull type appears this way, but CCP, you have given one of the hull classes the exact same shape as the previous old wreck icons (or something very similar)! So when I'm looking at my overview, my eye is trained to see a wreck and not a ship at the moment...it's quite surreal lol. And yes, of course, I'm sure you think 'players will get used to it', but why should we?
EVE was iconic in the space faring game culture for having the 'small, bigger and then biggest red cross' enemies to make the player stop and think twice before engaging the enemy. Now, all we see are different shapes that really convey no sense of what it is you are engaging!
I really hope you take a step back and realise that you've gone too far with this change, it is hurting gameplay significantly.
EVE is NOT Homeworld! Bring back the old icons please.
Sal |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
1166
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Posted - 2015.06.06 12:22:17 -
[68] - Quote
I'm sorry but how are the new icons related to color blindness? Standings icons and overview backgrounds haven't changed and the icons themselves are white/grey.
You say you can't see the difference between blue and red, but that's not an issue the new icons introduced at all. I'm not sure what you're referring to.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
37833
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Posted - 2015.06.06 13:29:56 -
[69] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:You say you can't see the difference between blue and red, but that's not an issue the new icons introduced at all. I'm not sure what you're referring to.
No, he's saying that the icons in space don't allow him to see the difference between players that are blue to him and players that are red to him (ie. He can't tell friend from foe in space).
See his post on page 3.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Hiply Rustic
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
278
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Posted - 2015.06.06 14:50:31 -
[70] - Quote
+1, supported, of course.
This is a no-brainer.
On secdond thought; I mean to say that a no-brainer has already occurred and this thread is a good place to call it out.
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
"Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied."
EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.
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Sibyyl
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
25425
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Posted - 2015.06.06 15:26:46 -
[71] - Quote
OP, kudos to you for bringing this up for your corpmates. They are fortunate to have a friend like you.
I agree that it's a good cause. But I think the first post should be edited to clearly state what the ask is, so that CCP folks don't have to dig through hundreds of posts to find it.
This is what I think the ask is from page 1 and page 3, and +1 from me for these:
- We know about Overview Settings -> Appearance > Use small colortags -> Uncheck. However, we need more colors to choose from for colortags that do not clash with specific color blindness limitations.
- The little icons on the bottom right of each overview ship icon is hard to see, especially if two colors seem to blend into each other due to colorblindness (ie: red and blue).
- The ship icons in space need an option for solid backgrounds, with these backgrounds being more vibrant colors when the non-transparent option is selected.
We would only hold on to let go
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Sbrodor
Oscura Simmetria
Yulai Federation
90
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Posted - 2015.06.06 17:46:10 -
[72] - Quote
tnx i edited 1st post with your words.
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Z'rassa Taredi
Ares Productions Limited
The 11th Hour Alliance
0
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Posted - 2015.06.06 18:12:36 -
[73] - Quote
I hope ccp listens to you, but wouldnt hold my breath. My ceo has visiion issues (hes an old fart) and has trouble reading the txt even when its set to large. He has to use a magnifying glass to read stuff a lot of the times...and hes been playing eve since the start. Ccp hasnt done much to address that problem for the visually impaired, and i can only imagine the hell hes going through with the new icons.
long story short, i support you in your crusade to make eve a more tolerant place, not only for the color blind but for all visually impaired. |
Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
The Bastion
35
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Posted - 2015.06.06 18:14:24 -
[74] - Quote
It's perhaps worth adding.....
Every company that operates in the UK (as CCP does - even the servers are here), especially and particularly when it comes to the Web - has to comply with the Disability Access Act.
Now, I am 'colour perception challenged' too.
I may have little issue with the Overview changes; indeed as ex-Mil I rather like the new shapes. However, if they are causing problems by discrimination - then there may be a real problem here....... |
Blue Harrier
184
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Posted - 2015.06.06 18:31:16 -
[75] - Quote
Sorry if I get on peoples nerves (I often harp on about the condition on the forums) but unless you are colour blind, I suffer from Deuteranopia which can be described as follows;
(the deuteranope suffers the same hue discrimination problems as the protanope, but without the abnormal dimming. The names red, orange, yellow, and green really mean very little to him aside from being different names that everyone else around him seems to be able to agree on)
It can be very difficult for a normal colour vision person to even begin to understand how it affects your daily life.
Daft as it may seem colour when used correctly can greatly enhance our enjoyment of a game, we need colour just as much as anyone but colour we can see, big bold blocks of colour not subtle shades, tiny lines and little dots, the big bold red cross immediately said to me GÇÿwarning danger aboutGÇÖ the little red squiggles convey very little information.
This is one reason I play solo, not because I am anti social but because I canGÇÖt trust what I see is what you see and my mistake could be your blown up ship.
I support this thread one hundred percent.
"You wait - time passes, Thorin sits down and starts singing about gold." from The Hobbit on ZX Spectrum 1982.
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Primarch Apocalypse
Adeptus Imperium
0
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Posted - 2015.06.06 18:44:38 -
[76] - Quote
Verlyn wrote:
Dont think CCP cares, nor will care.
Actually in this case they are obliged to care. CCP has some sort of presence in the US , where all content is obliged to be accessible to people with a recognized disability , color blindness is a recognized disability. Now CCP is protected a bit by their draconian ToS (I have one almost as evil as this  ) but that will get thrown out the window by a judge faster that you can say "lawsuit". While such an action is unlikely it can still be very harmful to a fragile company like CCP - the last thing they would need is to be known as "the company that hates disabled people".
That aside the new icons are a good initiative with terrible results. The icons don't respect any design principles. They ignore familiarity , color theory , UX , UI and pretty much all the things a designer should know. The problem could be solved easily by the commuity. In 10 hours we could make a mod that allows us to use better icons , next day someone would make a better one. Then CCP could draw from the lessons & stories created by those mods and come up with a new revamped solution that would only server to increase player loyalty & consequently their income. However CCP bans AFAIK even such trivial modifications.
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DscoutPSA
The Green Machine
That Escalated Quickly.
4
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Posted - 2015.06.06 18:58:48 -
[77] - Quote
+1 support for non-dalton-reasons
I have resorted to removing the icons column altogether and shifting the 'Type' to column 1 where icons used to sit.
There was literally nothing wrong with the old system of icons.
CCP of late Remind me of management consultants brought in to a firm I was a director of 20 years ago, they just had to suggest wholly inappropriate and unnecessary changes to some things to justify their fees.
I can see players getting used to the icon system in the end but :reallyccp?:
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Sibyyl
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
25434
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Posted - 2015.06.06 19:10:46 -
[78] - Quote
There are quite a few malcontents who don't like the new icons. I advise you guys don't dogpile on top of this issue. There is a separate thread for your feedback about that, and it's not necessary to rabble in here for that.
I think it's better to be laser focused on what the issue is that OP described.
Edit: Fixed a typo
We would only hold on to let go
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Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
2808
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Posted - 2015.06.06 19:58:40 -
[79] - Quote
Colour blindness IS an issue that can and should be considered.
This is not hate for the icons just a simple request to consider or have alternatives for folks who need them.
Supported.
m
Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯|(pâä)/¯
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RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
1045
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 20:22:32 -
[80] - Quote
Classic example of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"
My first thought was: WTF??!!??
Next thought was jokes about:
TeePees online, Cowboys and Indians
Oh Christmas tree, Oh Christmas tree
Etc.
Etc.
Final conclusion
These are NOT the kinds of response a typical business wants from its customers. |
Tengu Reiuji
Mine 'N' Refine
Yulai Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.06.07 02:51:30 -
[81] - Quote
Think a few people are getting too tied up here thinking this is a thread against the new icons. While they may or may not be an issue, what we're asking for is some consideration to colour blind players who are now finding it even harder to play Eve due to an oversight in the new UI.
Full support for this one. |
Darth Terona
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
65
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Posted - 2015.06.07 03:42:42 -
[82] - Quote
You've managed to shoot 7000 dying ships.. Not 7000 kills
The color blind stuff sucks though :( |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam
Disturbed Acquaintance
1460
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 09:38:50 -
[83] - Quote
its a downside to being a member of a small demographic within a niche game
just like scanning is largely off-limits to me
you can try to raise ccp's awareness of the problem
through the csm & feedback
whether they can do anything is a different matter |
Tau Onyeka
Krusual Syndicate
1
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Posted - 2015.06.07 09:50:52 -
[84] - Quote
Tbh, the icon changes would have been a great moment to introduce a colour blind option. Not having done so showcases an amazing lack of insight. |
Piearry Laforin
Terra Nanotech
Yulai Federation
2
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Posted - 2015.06.07 10:15:12 -
[85] - Quote
+1 Support for this.
I am not color blind per se, but I have bad eyesight and find it sometims hard to discern the new background colors, because they blend in the surroundings.
Accessibility is a very important topic and should not be even a topic of discussions but a matter of course. Especially if CCP hat designers overhauling the system, this would have been a good time to consider this. When they introduced the new neocom icons they claimed to have vision impairments in mind. The same should be the case for the overview/bracket icons.
I like the new icons themselves, but how they handle subtle color backgrounds and gradients is not good.
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smokeAjoint
Honestly We didnt know
Unsettled.
62
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Posted - 2015.06.07 11:33:20 -
[86] - Quote
+1
**-álegalize it**
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Jenshae Chiroptera
1643
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Posted - 2015.06.07 15:37:29 -
[87] - Quote
Darth Terona wrote:You've managed to shoot 7000 dying ships.. Not 7000 kills ... ummm ... no.
The number of times that we have had our blue fleet on one side of a gate and a red waiting on the other then the message comes through, "Sbrodor wiped them out" .... yeah.
If I were ever going to attack Providence, I would watch list him and any alts. His bomber runs are devastating.
Maybe you think that bombers do only pick off ships already dying because you and a few friends dropped bombs near some and got lucky.
Maybe you flew bombers like I have done (really, really, really, extremely badly) but let me assure you that where you might have heard a few drunks hammering out some melodies in a pub on an out of tune piano; Sbrodor is the maestro of bombs.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow
Fozzie is treating a symptom.
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DaReaper
Net 7
2163
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Posted - 2015.06.07 17:01:35 -
[88] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:DaReaper wrote:... If you are pvping, couldn't you just set up your overview to get rid of all green, blu and purple, and just keep orange, red and neut? then basically anything on the overview you shoot? ... Bombers need to see where to blues are in relation to the reds. (So do logi pilots and anti-tackle)
thuis is true, couldn;y you just change the back ground color of blues and reds though? but meh, that makes sense
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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DaReaper
Net 7
2163
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Posted - 2015.06.07 17:06:59 -
[89] - Quote
So my question of "what really has changed that made it harder then before" still stands, the icons colors are the same, i assume you tweeked your overview for years before the new icons and had no issues (or some isuses you adjusted too, idk) so whats the difference exactly?
honesty just trying to understand, it would be like me trying to explain how due o my light sensitivity, a slight tweek has caused my eyes to hurt more. By saying "oh the new graphic upgrades are hard to handle." when in reality its due to how they modified the light bouncing off the new models. Point is, icons changed, colors of icons have not... so.. you obviously over came the issue by adjusting your over view, what is the issue now that makes that harder?
Also note, i support making it easier for you, i'm just confused. Icon changing should not effect color blindness, however, chaning icon colors and options would. AFAIK.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Miomeifeng Alduin
Lithonauts Inc.
88
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 17:20:46 -
[90] - Quote
DaReaper: That's the problem. A colorblind person can't really explain because we just dont know what's normal with some colors. A change of icons can make it less clear with certain colors used or even with most for a colorblind person. You yourself give the example of light sensitivity. You can try to explain how things are different and make your eyes hurt, but a "normal" person wont ever get that because they dont experience it themselves.
In my case colors just blend and dont stand out, if i see a green field, i'll generally know its green (if its a well defined green for me), if i see a red field, the same, if i see a blue field, again the same, but put them next to eachother and let me look at the center where they come together, and it'll blend in together and i wont be able to say: this color ends here, and the other starts there. Icons do change the defined area's for example, and can make it blend together. I had less issues before the changes too, but the issue was still there.
CCP really needs to get some colorblind persons on staff or use simulations, so they can actually design their UI so colorblind people can see things clearly. (When i started, i spent several hours tweaking the UI colors, so i could see normally, now those options are no longer there, and colorblind people are reporting more issues. This is a big problem) |
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