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Cutting Edge Industries confiscates 1.8B POS system from Corp member

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Garrin Lasyn Gallente Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.19 08:15:00 - [1] Edited by: Garrin Lasyn on 19/11/2006 08:17:45 Update note: for some reason **ah is showing up as ah. I don't know why that it but you can look up the corp information...you are smart folks. :) Needless to say, I was talking to a now co-CEO. ----------------------------------- Nov. 16th, 2006 I was served notice in email that Cutting Edge Industries (CEI) took possession of my two personal POSs and 2 moons and within 24 hours I would be kicked out of the corp. There would be no compensation for my personal property or the value of the moons. I want to make it clear; I have no argument or problems with anyone outside of CEI. Read below for details. Facts: 1. CEI had offered to allow members to put up and own their own POSs if they so wished as long as the player paid for and put up their own personal POSs. 2. I purchased, maintained, supplied, and managed my POSs myself. Hauled fuel in and minerals out by myself as was the agreement with CEI. 3. On August 12th I posted to CEIÆs forums that I will have to reduce my Eve time because of RL obligations. I was going to do some volunteer work for until after the 2nd week of November. A.This was met with acknowledgement and encouragement from now co-ceo ah. 4. There were times when running the POSs were a challenge. There were occasions when the fuel ran low, or a POS went offline. There was never a mention of any problems when I was online or via eve-mail. So management must have been fine with these occasional problems. 5.November 13th, via chat with co-CEO ah I talked to her about my current situation and want to ask if she had a problem with me selling the POS equipment and the moons to someone in the alliance. A. She agreed but asked that I make them available to someone in the corp first. I agreed and thought that was fair and fine. B.She asked what types of moon I have. I informed her that I had 1 POS at a Dysp moon and 1 at a Prom moon. C. She did the math to figure out that I make approx. 600-800 million isk net profit each month. 6. November 16th, I received an eve mail that basically said we are kicking you out of the corp. for POS issues and due to inactivity. I was completely above board with the corp. and management team. When I was having trouble with time commitments and the POS, I looked for a fair solution for everyone. After all, I built that POS business on those two moons. When you buy a T2 BPO you donÆt expect to break even until 11+ months. I thought 3-4 months of net profit (1.8Billion isk) for an existing and very profitable POS business would be fair. To **ahÆs credit she did pay for the infrastructure and allowed me to take my moon minerals out. It still does not answer the question of CEIÆs management taking a memberÆs property or destroying their business, without warning or compensation. I donÆt have a problem with anyone else in the alliance but I do have a problem with CEI. Garrin Lasyn
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.11.19 08:30:00 - [2] well gerrin its time u quit made some ISK and hired some mercs to war dec and harass this corp until dues are paid a lot of rich folks are in the business now of hiring mercs to get back at corps that do them wrong - give the bounty and prey forum a check over for good solid mercs that will go for a reasonable cost
Latex Mistress Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.19 08:45:00 - [3] Ouch. Always sucks when you have to pull a dagger from your back... Depending on how angry you are about it, Overlord is correct on the 'Merc thing. If you're really upset over it, there's always GHSC. LM Latex Mistresss: bringing truth to the truculent one post at a time
Darknesss D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.11.19 08:49:00 - [4] im sorry for your loss, i wouldnt have expected such a lame act from CEI if indeed these events happened as you say. Best to let the other members of CEI who have POS's know whats happened here.
maedden Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.19 08:49:00 - [5] Edited by: maedden on 19/11/2006 08:49:25 Well garrin you were nothing but a leech right from when you joined and all i can say is good riddance!
Cyleth Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.19 08:50:00 - [6] So you decided to cut down your time playing eve, got mad 'cause the management team didn't like to take care of your POS(es) afterall and therefore you threw your toys out of the pram. On top of that you felt it is totally ok to trick some grunts of CEI, who had nothing to do with the whole issue nor knew about it, in gangs with your Thanatos and kill them while being in same corp still. Go you. -- Nobody stays behind
Twoside Gallente Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.19 09:04:00 - [7] Originally by: Darknesss (...)if indeed these events happened as you say. (...) Spot on - it hasn't. Originally by: Darknesss (...)Best to let the other members of CEI who have POS's know whats happened here.(...) Everybody in CEI that has an interest in the matter know what happened, and agree with the course of action that was really taken. That's honestly all I care about. Kind regards, 2s
Heptameron Gallente Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.19 09:16:00 - [8] Originally by: maedden Edited by: maedden on 19/11/2006 08:49:25 Well garrin you were nothing but a leech right from when you joined and all i can say is good riddance! omg!! and there was me thinking you were taking a break! im gonna have to rename my ships now sniff ya up and left me to go to the eeeebil ones! ---------------------------------------------- We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and clap as they go by
Gouglash Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.19 10:42:00 - [9] I haven't seen you online in months, and certainly not engaging in any alliance or corp op, or any PVP. In fact, the only killmail you've ever gotten in this corp is the one you got when you ganged a corpmate who was entirely uninvolved in what transpired with your POSes, and killed his BS with your carrier. Bravo.
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.11.19 10:48:00 - [10] either way some dirty linen being put out here - but yeah a merc if youre unhappy is youre best bet
SPQRMocton Minmatar Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.11.19 11:46:00 - [11] HMMM why would he be posting if you treated him so fairly ? As a member of the tribute family this concerns me greatly , I shall talk w my corp,leaders and see what is really goin on , if the truth can be found .
Altai Saker Omniscient Order The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2006.11.19 12:07:00 - [12] With Kali all Prom. moons will be under the hold of an alliance and group that use them to produce there own stuff anyway. You mining the best moon mins in the game and then selling them out = leech anyways.
Omega Man The Geddy Foundation	Posted - 2006.11.19 12:20:00 - [13] anyone wishing to dispute the corp has taken 1.8bn of this players personal assets from him?
Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.11.19 12:52:00 - [14] Its as a lame as the time M Corp killed that dudes navy raven. Thanks for posting.
Shirei Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.19 12:56:00 - [15] Edited by: Shirei on 19/11/2006 12:56:46 Garrin joined CEI from a hostile corp while he already had the POS running. Since he very rarely attended any kind of corp activities (in 5 months in the corp he participated in a grand total of 5 kills before killing one of his corp-mates yesterday and was also not active on the industrial side), we were forced to conclude that the main if not sole reason he joined CEI was to keep these running rather than having them destroyed as they would inevitably have been if he had stayed in his original corp. This is not something we are indending to support indefinitely and since he already got 5+ (+ a few more while he was running them in OSS) months of profit out of them, I don't know why we should be paying him for future profits. He was paid for the actual POS components and allowed to remove any minerals/fuel that were in the POS at the time.
NereSky Gallente Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.11.19 13:01:00 - [16] Tbh its a internal corp / alliance matter ,and as such should be kept there. The op seems a little lame in posting here it in my opinion ( not that my opinion counts for much , but hey ho ):)
Riggwelter Caldari Drinkers Appreciation Soiciety	Posted - 2006.11.19 13:05:00 - [17] From my point of view the alliance owns the space not the individual members. It shouldnt be down to individuals to sell the moons at such an inflated amount when they effectivily belong to the alliance that claims the space. If you had mearly asked for the cost of the towers what would the result have been (maybe you could have included a charge for having them already setup). Somewhat different i may suggest. You seem to not inderstand the cooperative nature that is needed to secure and control space. Somehting you have stated already you have put little to no effort into for the past months. Strikes me as remarkably cheeky then to charge such a large amount for what are presumably 2 small pos. Presumably an argument could be made that your lack of contribution has resulted in a rental charge of 1.8bil which has been paid by the transfer of assets. Bottom line you tried to sell something you never really owned and are suprised at the reaction this created.
Takahashi Chiaki hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.11.19 13:06:00 - [18] Originally by: Shirei This is not something we are indending to support indefinitely and since he already got 5+ (+ a few more while he was running them in OSS) months of profit out of them, I don't know why we should be paying him for future profits. He was paid for the actual POS components and allowed to remove any minerals/fuel that were in the POS at the time. I can see why someone whould be **ed off when his money making scheme gets ended. However, with the facts clearing up a bit, who whould** tolerate this in his corp?
Shizah	Posted - 2006.11.19 13:15:00 - [19] Garrin, inspite of what he may tell you, has done little in corp. He joined CEI simply to keep his POSes going in an area in which he was now hostile. His alts joined CEI industries to facilitate this. During this time period in CEI Industries, CEI industries received hundreds of low fuel notices and even email from individuals telling us the poses were offline. One individual wanted to take the moons over because they were not being cared for. I moved to kick Garrin from corp for inactivity and neglect, and sent him an email explaining thoroughly to him the circumstances of his removal. He wanted us to buy the moons and his equipment and pay for several months of earnings. These were not his moons. We allowed him to operate under the protection of CEI and keep all profits from the moons. I agreed to buy out his Poses, mods, and fuel. He tallied everthing at 427,300,000. I check his list against the poses and the fuel and paid him the 427,300,000. I then waited while he brought in his carrier so I could hand him the minerals that were in the silos prior to my buying the POS equipment. After the exchange and right after I logged he con'd one of his corp mates into "ratting" with him and killed him with his carrier fighters. Now you have the rest of the story.
Baddias Mongo Caldari Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.19 13:46:00 - [20] Edited by: Baddias Mongo on 19/11/2006 13:51:25 Edited by: Baddias Mongo on 19/11/2006 13:50:58 Originally by: ****ah Garrin, inspite of what he may tell you, has done little in corp. He joined CEI simply to keep his POSes going in an area in which he was now hostile. His alts joined CEI industries to facilitate this. This to me is a good example of why an alliance should never recruit direct from a defeated enemy when taking over a new region. 9 times out of 10 the players/corps are only trying to join purely for selfish regions, and I have no doubt that if a new invader came along and took over they would be more than happy to sellout again if it meant they could stay in 'their' home (Ive seen it all before in JQA). You dont need people like this in your alliance... leeches is a good description for them. GJ CEI.
Imhotep Khem Total Mayhem.	Posted - 2006.11.19 14:51:00 - [21] Sounds like the corp and the pilot had an agreement that the corp decided to change. I all depends on what the reputation you want for your corp. ____ "If your not dyin' your not tryin'." "Are you prepared to go all the way, Alexi?" DuGalle
Raem Civrie Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.11.19 15:18:00 - [22] I laughed. Mostly at Garrin, too. Let's just put it this way... after the supposed friendly fire incident after your POS was moved out, I would've made a point of hunting you down, along with the rest of your starbases. ---- All you do is bark. You never meow.
Kryztal Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.19 15:20:00 - [23] Originally by: Garrin Lasyn To ****ahÆs credit she did pay for the infrastructure and allowed me to take my moon minerals out. It still does not answer the question of CEIÆs management taking a memberÆs property or destroying their business, without warning or compensation. So you got paid for the structures they took over but you feel they owe you for loss of income ? Its their space, its their moons and why on earth they would let you keep mining those moons without a cut to the corp is beyond me (im told those are the most valuable moons). Its also funny how your crying about losing your POS's insted of crying about getting kicked which kinda shows that you were in it for yourself. I would have kicked you after the second "fuel is low" mail (blacklight would have spanked me though) or told you to fuel it up or im taking the corp capital fleet and taking it down for you . Either way, im sure you would have had no problem getting into another corp to leech of them prior to this post, good luck.
Ceratin ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.19 16:41:00 - [24] Ive spent alot of time around rzr alliance and theres no way they'd do anything like that. After reading the rest of the post i see you were payed already? and were kicked basically for being a greedy carebear. To make it worse one that expected the corp to do ur carebearing for you? Way to air out your incompetance/greed to the eve public though.. selling account now? i would ------------ - All Hail, Leader of The Pod Brigade
Fred0 Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.19 17:29:00 - [25] Outrageous Garrin. What a huge ******* mistake it was to let you into our corp. In most other corps you would have been kicked ages ago. Nevertheless good luck to you in the future even though I personally think you are a complete asshat now.
Garrin Lasyn Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2006.11.19 18:00:00 - [26] Originally by: Ceratin Ive spent alot of time around rzr alliance and theres no way they'd do anything like that. After reading the rest of the post i see you were payed already? and were kicked basically for being a greedy carebear. To make it worse one that expected the corp to do ur carebearing for you? You are incorrect. I never expected the corp to take care of my POSs for me.
Garrin Lasyn Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2006.11.19 18:02:00 - [27] Originally by: Fred0 Outrageous Garrin. What a huge ***** mistake it was to let you into our corp. In most other corps you would have been kicked ages ago. Just as outrageous as what you have done. You can call me names all you want. It still doesn't address the fact that what you did and authorized ah to do wasn't fair. Originally by:** Fred0 Nevertheless good luck to you in the future even though I personally think you are a complete asshat now. I couldn't care less what you think about me.
Archilies Elite United Corp Antigo Dominion	Posted - 2006.11.19 18:05:00 - [28] Originally by: **ah Garrin, inspite of what he may tell you, has done little in corp. He joined CEI simply to keep his POSes going in an area in which he was now hostile. His alts joined CEI industries to facilitate this. During this time period in CEI Industries, CEI industries received hundreds of low fuel notices and even email from individuals telling us the poses were offline. One individual wanted to take the moons over because they were not being cared for. I moved to kick Garrin from corp for inactivity and neglect, and sent him an email explaining thoroughly to him the circumstances of his removal. He wanted us to buy the moons and his equipment and pay for several months of earnings. These were not his moons. We allowed him to operate under the protection of CEI and keep all profits from the moons. I agreed to buy out his Poses, mods, and fuel. He tallied everthing at 427,300,000. I check his list against the poses and the fuel and paid him the 427,300,000. I then waited while he brought in his carrier so I could hand him the minerals that were in the silos prior to my buying the POS equipment. After the exchange and right after I logged he con'd one of his corp mates into "ratting" with him and killed him with his carrier fighters. Now you have the rest of the story. My 5 pennies. You shouldnt have recruited him in the first place. Never recruit from your enemy, regardless of how desperate you are to have new members, mistake 1. Garrin, should have been booted out of the corp along time ago if he never become involved in the corp or any alliance ops etc, at the minimium you should have had words early on. Mistake 2. Garrin shouldnt have charged you for the moons or even tried, since their the alliance's property, but the pos's are his and you can't kick someone for neglecting their own property. But then you shouldnt havent taken him on anyway. If you wanted him that badly in the corp, you should ahve reasonably forseen that he would keep all profits unless otherwise asked. You should have therefore asked for a certain % of his profits. Mistake 3. You should have known that taking someone;s pos's off them [even tho they were paid] would ** him off so should have sent a corp mail out saying he was going to be leaving and just be on ya guard.mistake 4 With the hundreds of low pos fuel warnings, you should have talked to him about it then, and finded a solution. Not taking sides Recruitment Thread
Garrin Lasyn Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2006.11.19 18:32:00 - [29] Originally by: Archilies Garrin, should have been booted out of the corp along time ago if he never become involved in the corp or any alliance ops etc, at the minimium you should have had words early on. Mistake 2. Hey Arhilies, Just for the record I was involved in corp and alliance ops before RL started taking it's toll. I didnt' think I would have to keep detailed diary so I few things off the top of my head: ò When I was able to be more active, I helped guard systems ò I went down south to help there and attack/scout Goonies ò I came back up to help transport and guard the outpost and transport it. I stayed up until 5 am guarding that dang thing. Then helped guard it the next day. ò I helped with systems when the frenchies were attacking ò I helped gate camp and hunt/scout them in my covertops or recon ship (that's why there isnt' a huge kill count for me on the KB). I was in my covert ops or recon ship most of the time. òWhen it was allowed I ratted to bring my security status up. So the, "you never did anything in the alliance" is a non-starter arguement from CEI's side. Just wanting to give you my side of things. Were there mistakes on both sides? Yes.
jernej Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.19 18:35:00 - [30] Is this by any chance the first Thief Corp thread? Someone has to bring the trash out
Garrin Lasyn Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2006.11.19 18:36:00 - [31] Originally by: Fred0 That you after that dream up a 1.8bill sales value for something that was never yours is outrageous. Go get an MBA then come back to me and talk to me about how you value a business. Originally by: Fred0 In addition to this you trick one of our members to get a cheap kill on him and now you are threatening the corp And? I also offered to pay them back after we come to any kind of agreement. Originally by: Fred0 who no doubt you are indebted to for paying your accounts. What are you talking about? I pay for my own accounts with my own RL money. Stop trying to throw chaff into the air and coming up with non starter arguements.
Garrin Lasyn Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2006.11.19 18:39:00 - [32] Originally by: jernej Is this by any chance the first Thief Corp thread? LOL
christoforos Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.19 18:44:00 - [33] Moons don't belong to individuals but to the alliance. You were allowed to use it without paying anything. You made good profit for several months. You were paid back for your initial investment and you were given the whole production until that moment. That's more than fair. No one can steal you something that doesn't belong to you in the first place.
Cyleth Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.19 18:51:00 - [34] Originally by: Garrin Lasyn Originally by: Fred0 That you after that dream up a 1.8bill sales value for something that was never yours is outrageous. Go get an MBA then come back to me and talk to me about how you value a business. Did you just try to make an RL insult with this? Not only you are losing your case with this but you are also losing your own credibility throwing things like that without actually knowing anything about the person in question. -- Nobody stays behind
Drusus Rensus Gallente Klima Galactic	Posted - 2006.11.19 18:51:00 - [35] Interesting thread. Take home lesson: Friends are far and away the most valuable asset you can have in Eve. If you don't have them, you can't really have anything else. You only own what you own in eve if you have the power to keep it. In empire, you can rely on your friends at Concord to help you hold on to what's yours. Once you leave Empire, you're going to need some other friends, or you won't get much, and you won't keep even what you get. Looks to me like the OP just plain and simple didn't have enough friends. He cared more about his isk, and his POSes than he did his corp-mates, so when push came to shove, his corp-mates cared more about his POSes than they did about him. That's the only thing that can really be gleaned from this thread. Unless you were there, you'll never really know what happened.
JINX HSC Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.19 19:01:00 - [36] Originally by: Garrin Lasyn Originally by: Fred0 That you after that dream up a 1.8bill sales value for something that was never yours is outrageous. Go get an MBA then come back to me and talk to me about how you value a business. lolzor.. You have no clue about Freds educational lvl and that kind of coments just show the rest of us that CEI did the right thing.. //mask - KLADDKAKA - Trig read the rulez m8!!!
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.11.19 19:38:00 - [37] please contact some mercs about this they need work - as for CEI yes i think its the first ever theifing corp thread in a long while
HordeZla Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.19 19:43:00 - [38] My advice, align your self with people that can be trusted and don't revolve the game around how much Isk you make but on how much fun you have. Try again!
Fantome Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.11.19 19:46:00 - [39] I do know the new CEI's co-CEO TwoSide since years, So i can say than garrin yuor story can't be true. Whatever you have got, you deserved it for sure. Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum.
GeoNoSiS Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.19 19:56:00 - [40] I cant say much more than my present/Ex corp mates already have. CEI is a good honest corp and the leadership are all fair , friendly and approachable. As long as you put in the time to aid the corp then there are plenty of perks and you will be treated with respect. They actively encourage people to branch out and do their own thing during quiet times, while the corp offers security etc etc in the home region enabling you to do this. It should be clear to see who has taken advantage of which situation -----------------------------------------------
BlackRain Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.19 21:44:00 - [41] Originally by: Garrin Lasyn Originally by: Fred0 That you after that dream up a 1.8bill sales value for something that was never yours is outrageous. Go get an MBA then come back to me and talk to me about how you value a business. Ladies and Gentlemen, I present you the biggest failure in smacktalk ever to emerge on these forums. ------------------- -
Riggwelter Caldari Drinkers Appreciation Soiciety	Posted - 2006.11.19 23:34:00 - [42] Originally by: Garrin Lasyn Originally by: Fred0 That you after that dream up a 1.8bill sales value for something that was never yours is outrageous. Go get an MBA then come back to me and talk to me about how you value a business. OMG as for a value of this so called business (in actual fact just a mining operation on someone elses land) NIL as you dont and have never controlled the resource your harvesting. I think if you had displayed the attitude you are now prior to seeling the structures you wonuldnt even have been able to sell them.
CamMan Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.20 02:01:00 - [43] Edited by: CamMan on 20/11/2006 02:04:34 Originally by: Garrin Lasyn ..... ò When I was able to be more active, I helped guard systems ò I went down south to help there and attack/scout Goonies ò I came back up to help transport and guard the outpost and transport it. I stayed up until 5 am guarding that dang thing. Then helped guard it the next day. ò I helped with systems when the frenchies were attacking ò I helped gate camp and hunt/scout them in my covertops or recon ship (that's why there isnt' a huge kill count for me on the KB). I was in my covert ops or recon ship most of the time. òWhen it was allowed I ratted to bring my security status up. ................. Garrin, you are looking like a complete tool, has any person read the whole thread and even agreed with you in the slightest way? You want to be part of an alliance, but then you just want to do your own thing and run your own POS's. Your "contributions" to your allaince are common everyday remedial exercises, yet you make them out to be something dramatic. You want an extra 1.4 bill for future earnings, why not just think of it as paying the alliance 1.4 bill in back taxes for your personal profit they let you accumulate when they could have simply added their own POS's at those moons? which if my sums are correct are on the order of 5-8 months at 800mill/month = 4 bill to 6.4 bill. So 1.4 bill tax isnt too bad. You dont own the moons, you dont own the space your "business" is in. The owner of the land wanted to redevelop it, they had no contract with you, they paid you for your assests lost which is more then equitable for you, as they could have just blown them up. That is looking at it with your MBA (**, ) real life analogy. Then on top of that, you kill a corp member as some sort of ransom? You are being a complete , no one in their right mind would accept you in their corp now. You have proven yourself to be one of the most selfish players in EVE, then when you dont get your own way you spit the dummy kill your corpmate as a ransom, and come running to the rest of the EVE community, just to tell then how big a ** you are. I hope you do quit the game, or play solo from now on, the corp and alliance community of EVE are better off without you. I also ask the moderators to lock this thread as it was written by a person in a noob corp, and as such does not belong in COAD thread. edit: I cant believe the words i used didnt pass the profanity filter, man that thing is harsh Originally by: Bender Interesting, no the other one ... tedious
Dao 2 Generals Of Destruction Syndicate Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.11.20 06:56:00 - [44] Good luck never getting into an alliance again :D ------------------------------------------------ NEWLY ADDED ON 1/19 (though applies to all posts before ;p) the usual "I don't represent my corp or alliance" and stuffs like that Also the gal
Naim Obeji Minmatar Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.11.20 07:30:00 - [45] CEI appear to have handled this perfectly, in my opinion. Frankly, it sounds to me like they were overly patient and you acted quite the tool.
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.11.20 07:52:00 - [46] so garrin have u made any mercanery corp contacts yet ? suggets u do if u want revenge for what u percieve as a wrong
Laythun Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.20 09:22:00 - [47] My God i completly missed the bandwagon to ***** this thread . Undercover Brothers It's great being Amarr, aint it?Ö
Death Merchant InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.11.20 11:19:00 - [48] To the OP: Fact: 1) You paid no taxes 2) They weren't your moons 3) You made a huge sum of money 4) You were paid for your pos 5) You killed a member of your corp(on purpose) 6) You were highly inactive in corp activities. 7) Your an asshat "What happens in Deklien stays in Deklien".
KingAc Minmatar North Star Networks	Posted - 2006.11.20 11:25:00 - [49] Fred0 are my master.
Kusotarre Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.20 11:34:00 - [50] Nice, Garrin. With a reputation like yours, maybe you can even make it into a corp like Federal Navy Academy. Don't let The Scope hold you back!
DeadDuck Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.20 12:52:00 - [51] TBH I think that RZR was to nice for him. Dead weight is the best definition for guys like you, and nobody needs a MBA to reach that conclusion

Huitzilopochtli Tlaloc Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2006.11.20 14:09:00 - [52] Moved from CAOD, otherwise it would have been locked as was started by somone in a NPC corp. Belongs better here anyway. Please avoid personal attacks. thanks - Thanks Hutch. ____ forum rules \| Email us They call me "Hutch" because my name is well... long Actually we call you "Hutch" because people might get the wrong idea of 'God of Young Boys' - Cortes, sigjacker extrodinaire You can't match my sig-jacking skills Cortes!! Oh and we call you Hutch because your the anti-Hitch - Petwraith

Zimi Vlasic F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.11.20 14:10:00 - [53] haha, what a tard Find Roid, Examine, and Excavate Explorer
Garrin Lasyn Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2006.11.20 19:46:00 - [54] Reading the posts, with various perspectives, has given me pause to reflect on what happened with a cooler head. I would like to explain a few things from my perspective and apologize for a few things. Everyone has different perspectives on every event that they share with other people. Given this event, both sides can cite evidence they have. I have chat logs, emails, etcà that I think prove my points. IÆm fairly certain the other side has emails, chat logs; etcà that they think proves their points. Given what happened and how it happened I felt hurt, angry and betrayed by people I felt were friends and then saw how much ISK I was making. I decided they were being greedy, put isk above friendship and ôstoleö the POSs and the moons from me. I wanted revenge. That was my perspective. CEI and you may disagree but that is your perspective. I suspect I know CEIÆs perspective but wonÆt speculate in public on that. I will leave that up to them if they so wish. Yes, there mistakes on my side given my RL obligations, I can think of other ways of handling past events that lead up to the current situation. Others have cited mistakes CEI made. Again, different perspectives on the facts as you see them. I think both sides could have both handled things differently. I would suggest that CEI and I agree to disagree on what was the right and fair way to handle this situation. I do want to apologize for a few things. 1. I should not have aired our dirty laundry in public. I should have kept this between myself and CEIÆs management. It was wrong on my part to do this and I apologize. 2. I should not have insulted Fred0Æs RL educational experience. I am sorry about that. 3. I should not have attacked my now ex-corp mate and destroyed his battleship. As I mentioned I was angry, shocked, wanted revenge. Since my being kicked out of the corp. and the confiscation of my personal POSs came as a complete surprise I felt justified in attacking a corp. mate by surprise. This was wrong on my part. He was an innocent bystander and was collateral damage. I am sorry. a.I do not have the killmail any longer. I will send him 150M isk to pay for his typhoon and nicely kit it out and apologize to him privately. Fred0 or ****ah will you send me his exact name so I can make certain I send the isk to the right person. 4. I also want to apologize to the eve community for involving you in a personal matter between CEIÆs management and myself. That was wrong and IÆm sorry. Given that IÆm in a noob corp. right now, when I go into a system everyone knows what could/could not happen. So, if they wish to attack meàthatÆs fair. If I wish to attack them, thatÆs fair. I hope we can put this behind us and move on. Garrin
Cadela Fria Amarr eXin Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.20 21:01:00 - [55] Originally by: Garrin Lasyn Edited by: Garrin Lasyn on 20/11/2006 20:11:11 Reading the posts, with various perspectives, has given me pause to reflect on what happened with a cooler head. I would like to explain a few things from my perspective and apologize for a few things. Well thats fantastic, you sound like a hero already. But the one problem is you've already been spending too long trying to explain things over and over, and doing a 180 now seems very much too late. Originally by: Garrin Lasyn Everyone has different perspectives on every event that they share with other people. Given this event, both sides can cite evidence they have. I have chat logs, emails, etc… that I think prove my points. I’m fairly certain the other side has emails, chat logs; etc… that they think proves their points. Thats the wonderful thing about reality: Perspective. It allows us to percieve the wonders of the world in all kinds of colors and flavours, right along with death, disease, hunger, war, religion, barney the purple dinosaur, and other tragic happenings in the world. Heres a problem though, you're certain the "other side", meaning the CEI corp and it's management; have chatlogs and emails to prove their point..I'm sorry; think that it proves their point. Chances are mr. Lasyn that if CEI indeed have the alledged sources of proof, it will be things you have either directly said to one or more people, maybe not directly to the ones you were talking about, but have still said, or in some cases, done. See theres no point in trying to derive factual proof from hearsay, rumours, and fictional stories..you know like..the stuff the bible is made out of. So, given this assumption that if they have logs of you saying something, OR doing something...you have those logs too, undeniably, and unless you erased these logs, you still have them. So assuming you didn't, you, in other words, have the logs and emails that prove their point(s). I know it's hard biting the bullet, but there you have it..chomp away. Originally by: Garrin Lasyn Given what happened and how it happened. I felt hurt, angry and betrayed by people I felt were friends and then saw how much ISK I was making. I thought I was doing things within the guidelines that were laidout by the corp. My immediate reaction was that they were being greedy, put isk above friendship and “stole” the POSs and the moons from me. I wanted revenge, to lash out, to make them feel the way that I felt. That was my perspective. CEI and you may disagree but that is your perspective. I suspect I know CEI’s perspective but won’t speculate in public on that. I will leave that up to them if they so wish. Yes, there mistakes on my side given my RL obligations, I can think of other ways of handling past events that lead up to the current situation. Others have cited mistakes CEI made. Again, different perspectives on the facts as you see them. Well that sounds great, you're coming to terms with the fact that you, as you say, "Lashed out". But theres one problem though again. More then often, as far as I know: It is Your responsibility to keep yourself u to date on the guidelines of the corp, because without you keeping yourself aware of what your corp is doing, you will have no idea what you're doing, so to speak. The idea is that a corporation often works as a unit, and therefor the general idea is that what you're doing, is part of what the corporation does. So if you're doing something that's opposite of what a corporation is doing, it's like standing and waiting for a bus and then suddenly your hand grabs a sharp object and stabs the person next to you, in the face...not very pleasent...okay okay, harsh analogy and not really the same thing, but atleast you get the idea (I hope). (continued - I'm in THE Mood ) -Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
Cadela Fria Amarr eXin Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.20 21:10:00 - [56] Originally by: Garrin Lasyn I think both sides could have both handled things differently. I would suggest that CEI and I agree to disagree on what was the right and fair way to handle this situation. I do want to apologize for a few things. I was writing something about that you can't say you messed up and then automatically push onto the opposing side aswell. Then however, I noticed that you said "I think" and that makes it valid..fact is not a subject of what you think..or the other way around, I forgot which. So ...great! You're right. As for wanting to apologise..again I think it's a little late for that, but hey, thats up for the CEI corp to decide. Originally by: Garrin Lasyn I hope we can put this behind us and move on. Garrin Can't ask people to put things behind them like that...takes time, but hey, who knows. The thing is though, what it seems like you pulled off, is going to haunt you for awhile..I'm just supplying the facts. Thats me 2 cents. -Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
Garrin Lasyn Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2006.11.20 22:30:00 - [57] Originally by: Cadela Fria Heres a problem though, you're certain the "other side", meaning the CEI corp and it's management; have chatlogs and emails to prove their point..I'm sorry; think that it proves their point. Chances are mr. Lasyn that if CEI indeed have the alledged sources of proof, it will be things you have either directly said to one or more people, maybe not directly to the ones you were talking about, but have still said, or in some cases, done. Poor choice of words. I should have said something like "if" or whatever. I was just trying to point out that we can all look at the same thing and see it from a different angle.
Garrin Lasyn Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2006.11.20 22:32:00 - [58] Originally by: Cadela Fria As for wanting to apologise..again I think it's a little late for that, but hey, thats up for the CEI corp to decide. Originally by: Garrin Lasyn I hope we can put this behind us and move on. Please note, I said, "hope".
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.11.21 03:58:00 - [59] op made a big mistake posting as he now looks like the fool. most people know cei to be pretty friendly / tolerant. your going to struggle to get into any corps now. shame.
Filthy Pierre Gallente Blueprint Haus	Posted - 2006.11.21 06:44:00 - [60] I've read both sides of the argument and have considered matters for some time. I'd say that the way CEI can avoid accusations of less than pure motivation would be to generously cede the POSes to a disinterested third party such as myself. I would of course pay a generous tithe to CEI and I promise to charitably invest all remaining profit in good causes within the EVE universe. ...well, it was worth a try, wasn't it? FP
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation	Posted - 2006.11.23 01:42:00 - [61] Edited by: Vyktor Abyss on 23/11/2006 01:43:20 Hehe - funny stuff. 100 Mil ISK and I'll give you a job now you've got no friends - you sound like a moron so you'd fit in nicely with my corp! Hehe :) Edit: Just remember its a game... - Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always broke! Science Ships

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