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Cutting Edge Industries confiscates 1.8B POS system from Corp member

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Garrin Lasyn Gallente Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.19 08:15:00 - [1] Edited by: Garrin Lasyn on 19/11/2006 08:17:45 Update note: for some reason **ah is showing up as ah. I don't know why that it but you can look up the corp information...you are smart folks. :) Needless to say, I was talking to a now co-CEO. ----------------------------------- Nov. 16th, 2006 I was served notice in email that Cutting Edge Industries (CEI) took possession of my two personal POSs and 2 moons and within 24 hours I would be kicked out of the corp. There would be no compensation for my personal property or the value of the moons. I want to make it clear; I have no argument or problems with anyone outside of CEI. Read below for details. Facts: 1. CEI had offered to allow members to put up and own their own POSs if they so wished as long as the player paid for and put up their own personal POSs. 2. I purchased, maintained, supplied, and managed my POSs myself. Hauled fuel in and minerals out by myself as was the agreement with CEI. 3. On August 12th I posted to CEIÆs forums that I will have to reduce my Eve time because of RL obligations. I was going to do some volunteer work for until after the 2nd week of November. A.This was met with acknowledgement and encouragement from now co-ceo ah. 4. There were times when running the POSs were a challenge. There were occasions when the fuel ran low, or a POS went offline. There was never a mention of any problems when I was online or via eve-mail. So management must have been fine with these occasional problems. 5.November 13th, via chat with co-CEO ah I talked to her about my current situation and want to ask if she had a problem with me selling the POS equipment and the moons to someone in the alliance. A. She agreed but asked that I make them available to someone in the corp first. I agreed and thought that was fair and fine. B.She asked what types of moon I have. I informed her that I had 1 POS at a Dysp moon and 1 at a Prom moon. C. She did the math to figure out that I make approx. 600-800 million isk net profit each month. 6. November 16th, I received an eve mail that basically said we are kicking you out of the corp. for POS issues and due to inactivity. I was completely above board with the corp. and management team. When I was having trouble with time commitments and the POS, I looked for a fair solution for everyone. After all, I built that POS business on those two moons. When you buy a T2 BPO you donÆt expect to break even until 11+ months. I thought 3-4 months of net profit (1.8Billion isk) for an existing and very profitable POS business would be fair. To **ahÆs credit she did pay for the infrastructure and allowed me to take my moon minerals out. It still does not answer the question of CEIÆs management taking a memberÆs property or destroying their business, without warning or compensation. I donÆt have a problem with anyone else in the alliance but I do have a problem with CEI. Garrin Lasyn
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.11.19 08:30:00 - [2] well gerrin its time u quit made some ISK and hired some mercs to war dec and harass this corp until dues are paid a lot of rich folks are in the business now of hiring mercs to get back at corps that do them wrong - give the bounty and prey forum a check over for good solid mercs that will go for a reasonable cost
Latex Mistress Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.19 08:45:00 - [3] Ouch. Always sucks when you have to pull a dagger from your back... Depending on how angry you are about it, Overlord is correct on the 'Merc thing. If you're really upset over it, there's always GHSC. LM Latex Mistresss: bringing truth to the truculent one post at a time
Darknesss D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.11.19 08:49:00 - [4] im sorry for your loss, i wouldnt have expected such a lame act from CEI if indeed these events happened as you say. Best to let the other members of CEI who have POS's know whats happened here.
maedden Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.19 08:49:00 - [5] Edited by: maedden on 19/11/2006 08:49:25 Well garrin you were nothing but a leech right from when you joined and all i can say is good riddance!
Cyleth Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.19 08:50:00 - [6] So you decided to cut down your time playing eve, got mad 'cause the management team didn't like to take care of your POS(es) afterall and therefore you threw your toys out of the pram. On top of that you felt it is totally ok to trick some grunts of CEI, who had nothing to do with the whole issue nor knew about it, in gangs with your Thanatos and kill them while being in same corp still. Go you. -- Nobody stays behind
Twoside Gallente Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.19 09:04:00 - [7] Originally by: Darknesss (...)if indeed these events happened as you say. (...) Spot on - it hasn't. Originally by: Darknesss (...)Best to let the other members of CEI who have POS's know whats happened here.(...) Everybody in CEI that has an interest in the matter know what happened, and agree with the course of action that was really taken. That's honestly all I care about. Kind regards, 2s
Heptameron Gallente Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.19 09:16:00 - [8] Originally by: maedden Edited by: maedden on 19/11/2006 08:49:25 Well garrin you were nothing but a leech right from when you joined and all i can say is good riddance! omg!! and there was me thinking you were taking a break! im gonna have to rename my ships now sniff ya up and left me to go to the eeeebil ones! ---------------------------------------------- We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and clap as they go by
Gouglash Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.19 10:42:00 - [9] I haven't seen you online in months, and certainly not engaging in any alliance or corp op, or any PVP. In fact, the only killmail you've ever gotten in this corp is the one you got when you ganged a corpmate who was entirely uninvolved in what transpired with your POSes, and killed his BS with your carrier. Bravo.
Miss Overlord Gallente EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.11.19 10:48:00 - [10] either way some dirty linen being put out here - but yeah a merc if youre unhappy is youre best bet
SPQRMocton Minmatar Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.11.19 11:46:00 - [11] HMMM why would he be posting if you treated him so fairly ? As a member of the tribute family this concerns me greatly , I shall talk w my corp,leaders and see what is really goin on , if the truth can be found .
Altai Saker Omniscient Order The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2006.11.19 12:07:00 - [12] With Kali all Prom. moons will be under the hold of an alliance and group that use them to produce there own stuff anyway. You mining the best moon mins in the game and then selling them out = leech anyways.
Omega Man The Geddy Foundation	Posted - 2006.11.19 12:20:00 - [13] anyone wishing to dispute the corp has taken 1.8bn of this players personal assets from him?
Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.11.19 12:52:00 - [14] Its as a lame as the time M Corp killed that dudes navy raven. Thanks for posting.
Shirei Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated	Posted - 2006.11.19 12:56:00 - [15] Edited by: Shirei on 19/11/2006 12:56:46 Garrin joined CEI from a hostile corp while he already had the POS running. Since he very rarely attended any kind of corp activities (in 5 months in the corp he participated in a grand total of 5 kills before killing one of his corp-mates yesterday and was also not active on the industrial side), we were forced to conclude that the main if not sole reason he joined CEI was to keep these running rather than having them destroyed as they would inevitably have been if he had stayed in his original corp. This is not something we are indending to support indefinitely and since he already got 5+ (+ a few more while he was running them in OSS) months of profit out of them, I don't know why we should be paying him for future profits. He was paid for the actual POS components and allowed to remove any minerals/fuel that were in the POS at the time.
NereSky Gallente Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.11.19 13:01:00 - [16] Tbh its a internal corp / alliance matter ,and as such should be kept there. The op seems a little lame in posting here it in my opinion ( not that my opinion counts for much , but hey ho ):)
Riggwelter Caldari Drinkers Appreciation Soiciety	Posted - 2006.11.19 13:05:00 - [17] From my point of view the alliance owns the space not the individual members. It shouldnt be down to individuals to sell the moons at such an inflated amount when they effectivily belong to the alliance that claims the space. If you had mearly asked for the cost of the towers what would the result have been (maybe you could have included a charge for having them already setup). Somewhat different i may suggest. You seem to not inderstand the cooperative nature that is needed to secure and control space. Somehting you have stated already you have put little to no effort into for the past months. Strikes me as remarkably cheeky then to charge such a large amount for what are presumably 2 small pos. Presumably an argument could be made that your lack of contribution has resulted in a rental charge of 1.8bil which has been paid by the transfer of assets. Bottom line you tried to sell something you never really owned and are suprised at the reaction this created.
Takahashi Chiaki hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.11.19 13:06:00 - [18] Originally by: Shirei This is not something we are indending to support indefinitely and since he already got 5+ (+ a few more while he was running them in OSS) months of profit out of them, I don't know why we should be paying him for future profits. He was paid for the actual POS components and allowed to remove any minerals/fuel that were in the POS at the time. I can see why someone whould be **ed off when his money making scheme gets ended. However, with the facts clearing up a bit, who whould** tolerate this in his corp?
Shizah	Posted - 2006.11.19 13:15:00 - [19] Garrin, inspite of what he may tell you, has done little in corp. He joined CEI simply to keep his POSes going in an area in which he was now hostile. His alts joined CEI industries to facilitate this. During this time period in CEI Industries, CEI industries received hundreds of low fuel notices and even email from individuals telling us the poses were offline. One individual wanted to take the moons over because they were not being cared for. I moved to kick Garrin from corp for inactivity and neglect, and sent him an email explaining thoroughly to him the circumstances of his removal. He wanted us to buy the moons and his equipment and pay for several months of earnings. These were not his moons. We allowed him to operate under the protection of CEI and keep all profits from the moons. I agreed to buy out his Poses, mods, and fuel. He tallied everthing at 427,300,000. I check his list against the poses and the fuel and paid him the 427,300,000. I then waited while he brought in his carrier so I could hand him the minerals that were in the silos prior to my buying the POS equipment. After the exchange and right after I logged he con'd one of his corp mates into "ratting" with him and killed him with his carrier fighters. Now you have the rest of the story.
Baddias Mongo Caldari Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.19 13:46:00 - [20] Edited by: Baddias Mongo on 19/11/2006 13:51:25 Edited by: Baddias Mongo on 19/11/2006 13:50:58 Originally by: ****ah Garrin, inspite of what he may tell you, has done little in corp. He joined CEI simply to keep his POSes going in an area in which he was now hostile. His alts joined CEI industries to facilitate this. This to me is a good example of why an alliance should never recruit direct from a defeated enemy when taking over a new region. 9 times out of 10 the players/corps are only trying to join purely for selfish regions, and I have no doubt that if a new invader came along and took over they would be more than happy to sellout again if it meant they could stay in 'their' home (Ive seen it all before in JQA). You dont need people like this in your alliance... leeches is a good description for them. GJ CEI.
Imhotep Khem Total Mayhem.	Posted - 2006.11.19 14:51:00 - [21] Sounds like the corp and the pilot had an agreement that the corp decided to change. I all depends on what the reputation you want for your corp. ____ "If your not dyin' your not tryin'." "Are you prepared to go all the way, Alexi?" DuGalle
Raem Civrie Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.11.19 15:18:00 - [22] I laughed. Mostly at Garrin, too. Let's just put it this way... after the supposed friendly fire incident after your POS was moved out, I would've made a point of hunting you down, along with the rest of your starbases. ---- All you do is bark. You never meow.
Kryztal Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.19 15:20:00 - [23] Originally by: Garrin Lasyn To ****ahÆs credit she did pay for the infrastructure and allowed me to take my moon minerals out. It still does not answer the question of CEIÆs management taking a memberÆs property or destroying their business, without warning or compensation. So you got paid for the structures they took over but you feel they owe you for loss of income ? Its their space, its their moons and why on earth they would let you keep mining those moons without a cut to the corp is beyond me (im told those are the most valuable moons). Its also funny how your crying about losing your POS's insted of crying about getting kicked which kinda shows that you were in it for yourself. I would have kicked you after the second "fuel is low" mail (blacklight would have spanked me though) or told you to fuel it up or im taking the corp capital fleet and taking it down for you . Either way, im sure you would have had no problem getting into another corp to leech of them prior to this post, good luck.
Ceratin ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.19 16:41:00 - [24] Ive spent alot of time around rzr alliance and theres no way they'd do anything like that. After reading the rest of the post i see you were payed already? and were kicked basically for being a greedy carebear. To make it worse one that expected the corp to do ur carebearing for you? Way to air out your incompetance/greed to the eve public though.. selling account now? i would ------------ - All Hail, Leader of The Pod Brigade
Fred0 Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.19 17:29:00 - [25] Outrageous Garrin. What a huge ******* mistake it was to let you into our corp. In most other corps you would have been kicked ages ago. Nevertheless good luck to you in the future even though I personally think you are a complete asshat now.
Garrin Lasyn Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2006.11.19 18:00:00 - [26] Originally by: Ceratin Ive spent alot of time around rzr alliance and theres no way they'd do anything like that. After reading the rest of the post i see you were payed already? and were kicked basically for being a greedy carebear. To make it worse one that expected the corp to do ur carebearing for you? You are incorrect. I never expected the corp to take care of my POSs for me.
Garrin Lasyn Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2006.11.19 18:02:00 - [27] Originally by: Fred0 Outrageous Garrin. What a huge ***** mistake it was to let you into our corp. In most other corps you would have been kicked ages ago. Just as outrageous as what you have done. You can call me names all you want. It still doesn't address the fact that what you did and authorized ah to do wasn't fair. Originally by:** Fred0 Nevertheless good luck to you in the future even though I personally think you are a complete asshat now. I couldn't care less what you think about me.
Archilies Elite United Corp Antigo Dominion	Posted - 2006.11.19 18:05:00 - [28] Originally by: **ah Garrin, inspite of what he may tell you, has done little in corp. He joined CEI simply to keep his POSes going in an area in which he was now hostile. His alts joined CEI industries to facilitate this. During this time period in CEI Industries, CEI industries received hundreds of low fuel notices and even email from individuals telling us the poses were offline. One individual wanted to take the moons over because they were not being cared for. I moved to kick Garrin from corp for inactivity and neglect, and sent him an email explaining thoroughly to him the circumstances of his removal. He wanted us to buy the moons and his equipment and pay for several months of earnings. These were not his moons. We allowed him to operate under the protection of CEI and keep all profits from the moons. I agreed to buy out his Poses, mods, and fuel. He tallied everthing at 427,300,000. I check his list against the poses and the fuel and paid him the 427,300,000. I then waited while he brought in his carrier so I could hand him the minerals that were in the silos prior to my buying the POS equipment. After the exchange and right after I logged he con'd one of his corp mates into "ratting" with him and killed him with his carrier fighters. Now you have the rest of the story. My 5 pennies. You shouldnt have recruited him in the first place. Never recruit from your enemy, regardless of how desperate you are to have new members, mistake 1. Garrin, should have been booted out of the corp along time ago if he never become involved in the corp or any alliance ops etc, at the minimium you should have had words early on. Mistake 2. Garrin shouldnt have charged you for the moons or even tried, since their the alliance's property, but the pos's are his and you can't kick someone for neglecting their own property. But then you shouldnt havent taken him on anyway. If you wanted him that badly in the corp, you should ahve reasonably forseen that he would keep all profits unless otherwise asked. You should have therefore asked for a certain % of his profits. Mistake 3. You should have known that taking someone;s pos's off them [even tho they were paid] would ** him off so should have sent a corp mail out saying he was going to be leaving and just be on ya guard.mistake 4 With the hundreds of low pos fuel warnings, you should have talked to him about it then, and finded a solution. Not taking sides Recruitment Thread
Garrin Lasyn Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2006.11.19 18:32:00 - [29] Originally by: Archilies Garrin, should have been booted out of the corp along time ago if he never become involved in the corp or any alliance ops etc, at the minimium you should have had words early on. Mistake 2. Hey Arhilies, Just for the record I was involved in corp and alliance ops before RL started taking it's toll. I didnt' think I would have to keep detailed diary so I few things off the top of my head: ò When I was able to be more active, I helped guard systems ò I went down south to help there and attack/scout Goonies ò I came back up to help transport and guard the outpost and transport it. I stayed up until 5 am guarding that dang thing. Then helped guard it the next day. ò I helped with systems when the frenchies were attacking ò I helped gate camp and hunt/scout them in my covertops or recon ship (that's why there isnt' a huge kill count for me on the KB). I was in my covert ops or recon ship most of the time. òWhen it was allowed I ratted to bring my security status up. So the, "you never did anything in the alliance" is a non-starter arguement from CEI's side. Just wanting to give you my side of things. Were there mistakes on both sides? Yes.
jernej Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.19 18:35:00 - [30] Is this by any chance the first Thief Corp thread? Someone has to bring the trash out

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