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Ashley Stellia
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Posted - 2006.11.19 08:59:00 -
[1]
I know why EVE is so good, but I cant put it into words. I am trying to convince my old WoW guild why EVE is so good but I just dont know how to type it. I'm wondering if the community could band together and make a masterpeice of an article detailing why EVE is such an awesome game. A game different from all others. A real permanent game in which the actions you take mean something. If we had just a good awesomely written article on this topic I think a lot of people could use it as an advertising device by showing it to people as is or tailoring it slightly to meet their friends specific needs.
So, to all you open minded, far seeing, writers out there who are able to put their visionary thoughts and comparisons into words, could you do us all a favor and make an awesome article on "WHY EVE IS SUCH AN AWESOME GAME" ?
(Note: The Guild I'm going to try to convince is a hardcore RP pvp guild that has been around for 10 years (strange combination), and probably their biggest concern is they are too ignorant of EVEs skill system and too big of powergamers to get used to the idea of never being able to "catch up." Please dont be mad at them though, they simply dont know how awesome EVE is. They also are super deep into politics and group organization and accomplishing long term group goals. Also, some of thme expressed a disintrest in EVE because you cant walk in stations / see your body / do things with planets. Now palns are in the works for that to change. Also, they prolly dont know about the CCP WhiteWolf merger thingy and I bet it would intrest some of them. Also they prolly odnt know that EVE is going to last 10 years or more and this is just the beginning. They dont understand that the game EVE ONLINE does not expand (like other games), it EVOLVES. So please, use this information and all other information you know of to write an awesome awesome article on why its WORTH IT to join eve RIGHT NOW and quit WASTING TIME playing a dead end game that most of them are tired of but think there is mnoting better out there.
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Templer Relleg
FATAL REVELATIONS
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.19 09:13:00 -
[2]
One word is all that is needed: Fredom
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Earthan
Gallente
The Amazing Fire Eaters
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Posted - 2006.11.19 09:16:00 -
[3]
Agreed, freedom and meaningfull pvp .
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A knight in space,war veteran.
The Amazing Fire Eaters webpage |
Noriath
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Posted - 2006.11.19 09:19:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Noriath on 19/11/2006 09:19:42
The Eve Skill system does not stop you from catching up, and if anyone thinks there is no work involved in getting to the top in Eve they are just dead wrong. Acctually Eve makes you work constantly because you keep nothing forever, except skills which are the one thing you don't have to work for.
The skill system may seem really bad in the beginning, but once you have the first character going that can use all tech 1 ship classes of a race or two well it's really better then any Level system where once you are maxed out the only way to spend productive time outside of PvP is by rolling another char.
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Ashley Stellia
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Posted - 2006.11.19 09:20:00 -
[5]
So if I go misspell "Freedom" on their forum they will all drop their WoW swords and flock over to EVE?
Give me something usable please. 
PS: I agree with you that freedom is one of the major what makes eve great, but if you read the thread starting post you will see the purpose of this thread is to EXPLAIN why EVE is so good to people who dont know what EVE really is.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2006.11.19 09:23:00 -
[6]
Well, compare it to WoW. You create a character, you are dropped into the world, there are a whole bunch of douchebags all around you but the game says they are your allies, so you are stuck with them, PvP is just a bunch of point exchanging with another faction you are not even allowed to talk to, who you really have no beef with other then the game telling you you must fight them, and no matter how much you work, no matter how gigantic of a guild you build, no matter how awsome you get at PvP, you can never just kick everyone out of a town and take it for yourself, choose who your friends and who your foes are, and leave a mark on the world. In Eve... you can.
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Templer Relleg
FATAL REVELATIONS
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.19 09:23:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Ashley Stellia
So if I go misspell "Freedom" on their forum they will all drop their WoW swords and flock over to EVE?
Give me something usable please.
PS: I agree with you that freedom is one of the major what makes eve great, but if you read the thread starting post you will see the purpose of this thread is to EXPLAIN why EVE is so good to people who dont know what EVE really is.
How about depth then?
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Ashley Stellia
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Posted - 2006.11.19 09:28:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Templer Relleg
Originally by: Ashley Stellia
So if I go misspell "Freedom" on their forum they will all drop their WoW swords and flock over to EVE?
Give me something usable please.
PS: I agree with you that freedom is one of the major what makes eve great, but if you read the thread starting post you will see the purpose of this thread is to EXPLAIN why EVE is so good to people who dont know what EVE really is.
How about depth then?
I also agree with you that the depth of EVE is another one of the major awesome things about it. But I cant just go to their forum and post:
Dear old WoW Guild:
Freedom. Depth. This is why EVE is so good. Please join today.
Love,
Ashley
I need something long, and big, and comprehensive. And please dont use the previous sentence as some sort of a sick joke. 
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Athena Starfire
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.19 09:29:00 -
[9]
Industrial and Economic Complexity and having the option not to have kill everyone in sight to have fun if thats not your thing..
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Earthan
Gallente
The Amazing Fire Eaters
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Posted - 2006.11.19 09:29:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Earthan on 19/11/2006 09:31:18
Well if thats the problem ( sorry havetn read entire post before  i dont do it often but soometimes im to fast:) ),
Imho you can try:
1-Facts: two 3 month combat oriented characters can kill any veteran given right tactics and ships setups
2-Facts yuo can put only certain ampount of skill points into a combat style ( for example nossing dominix) so in short amount of time (~ 2 month ) you can be nearly as good as vets in that style.
3-Skill points arent really that that impoirtant in pvp: coordination , scouting, tactics and patience ( i hate that one lol ) is much more important from certain point.
4-As Eve changes all time , and in past change really considerably vets got plenty of skills that ar enot useful, also their atributes ofen arent geared towards today Eve.
5Overall imho from what i heard Eve is the least awarding game for veterans, new pilots got a chance to be meaningfull so fast..
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A knight in space,war veteran.
The Amazing Fire Eaters webpage |
Templer Relleg
FATAL REVELATIONS
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.19 09:31:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ashley Stellia
Originally by: Templer Relleg
Originally by: Ashley Stellia
So if I go misspell "Freedom" on their forum they will all drop their WoW swords and flock over to EVE?
Give me something usable please.
PS: I agree with you that freedom is one of the major what makes eve great, but if you read the thread starting post you will see the purpose of this thread is to EXPLAIN why EVE is so good to people who dont know what EVE really is.
How about depth then?
I also agree with you that the depth of EVE is another one of the major awesome things about it. But I cant just go to their forum and post:
Dear old WoW Guild:
Freedom. Depth. This is why EVE is so good. Please join today.
Love,
Ashley
I need something long, and big, and comprehensive. And please dont use the previous sentence as some sort of a sick joke.
How about real pvp?
Influence on the grand world?
Fun.
Good people with an IQ over the wow average(Which is esitmated to be about 56).
A good community(Fanfest is an good example)
Free expansions
No easy mode.
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Zeknichov
Amarr
Black Avatar
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.11.19 09:35:00 -
[12]
EVE is a PvP game, WoW is not. Are the members of your guild into PvP or are they into PvE? It's that simple. If they are into PvP then describe to them the PvP system (which is the best of any MMOG in existence.)
There is territory worth fighting over. Outposts/POS to help secure this territory. The kicker is that this territory can be taken over by other players. Wars have meaning to them because PvP fights are dependent on isk. If players cannot afford combat ships they cannot PvP. Thus PvP is not like WoW where it's fight, die, respawn, zerg rush, kekekekekekekek. If you kill someone in EVE you hinder their ability to continue PvPing, thus making your kill have meaning. Wars can be fought and players can either lose or win. In WoW there is never a winner or loser, only players who lose patience/interest.
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Thor Xian
Vertigo One
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2006.11.19 09:37:00 -
[13]
No competition.
~Thor Xian, Material Defender
"Victory is the weakness of the enemy."
"It is better to die by my Autocannon, than to live for your Veldspar." |
J Frost
Gallente
The Tafflington Trust
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Posted - 2006.11.19 09:38:00 -
[14]
As one of the most experienced WOW player in mainland China, I can give you a whole bunch of advantages comparing EVE with WOW, and here are some typical idea of my opinions:
1. Endless RAID, another job after my work time, that kills me, in fact, that kills most of the old players. If u r not tired of it, then u earned my admiration, cuz I've already puked several times;
2. In EVE, you ARE someone. I don't mean to be hero or something alike, but I feel being needed, demanded, worth of something. Well, try to not attend 1 of ur RAID events, and u'll get kicked out of the team, so is ur DKP will drop or stay while others grow. After all, they can find another one to replace u.
3. You kill for honor in WOW, but I kill for living in EVE. Does that make sense to u?
4. I can be a war marchine and get myself involved in fights every day if I want. Or, I can setup training program and login every once per week and enjoy my 30 minutes game life if I'm too busy. That's very sweat seems to me.
5. All Lvl 60 mages (or other classes) have almost the same skill and style of fighting. Yes u can choose from the 3 masteries to make difference, but most of them are OPTIMIZED for RAID use. In EVE, that's not how it works.
6. From Lvl 58, ppl start to collect sets of gears to maximize their abilities. Well, look at the market in EVE, you'll know what I'm talking about.
I can list much more to say EVE is much better than WOW, but it all depends on how you evaluate the games. I don't think WOW is bad, or more suitable for young children, but that's not my game.
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Jigensama
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.11.19 09:43:00 -
[15]
I came over to EVE from WoW myself, and while I feel it's a better game; I also feel it's better for me rather than simply better for everyone.
The sheer amount of things you can do in EVE is staggering; and can easily be overwhelming for some people. As other's have said, freedom; in terms of being able to do what you want when you want is in an odd way the key feature of the game. You aren't stuck on the same tracks that countless other's have been on before you - you can really strike out on your own and do well with anything rather than being forced into fighting.
The way you progress in EVE is tremendously different as well (and was probably the biggest selling point for me). Due to a real-life where I travel a lot, I was often forced to sit on the sidelines while my guildmates in WoW would head out to raid and get the good stuff. Let's face it - when you hit 60 the only way to progress in WoW is with 39 other people for 5 hours at a time, otherwise you're just killing time. EVE isn't like that. The skill training takes place whether you're online or offline - which means that even when you're not able to play - you can keep up with you're friends. Few things in EVE require more than an hour of time, so for people who are trying to balance real life with a virtual one it can make things much more enjoyable.
Also, the size of the EVE universe is staggering for an MMO. Once you hit the upper tiers, in most games - it doesn't take a huge amount of time to traverse the world. In Azeroth you can get from one end to the other in less than 15 minutes - in EVE, one end of the Universe to the other would likely take more than a few hours even in the faster ships.
I'm skeptical that they'll be convinced by a simple post to be honest. EVE is a big big change from a lot of MMO's, and WoW in particular. And just having them try the two week trial typically isn't enough as it takes two weeks before things really start to get interesting.
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Pellaeon DuGalle
Caldari
Deep Black Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.19 09:53:00 -
[16]
Claim now, type later. This is gonna take two posts. **** work limit =P
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"There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible." |
James Duar
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.11.19 09:53:00 -
[17]
The market simulation. It really can't be beat!
And all the pretty stuff.
And the pew pew!
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Pellaeon DuGalle
Caldari
Deep Black Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.19 09:54:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Pellaeon DuGalle on 19/11/2006 10:01:27
The first night of their seige went badly, with only two starbase towers damaged and none destroyed, and their overnight lockdown of the only stargate into the system swiftly dismantled as european-time forces came back online in the morning. It looked unlikely that they were going to succeed in their goal even then, but then a further blow came: due to a controversial forum signature (involving a dead player and SomethingAwful "humour") Band of Brothers, widely regarded as the strongest alliance in the cluster, declared a holy war on the Goons and vowed to destroy them utterly. Their expected strike against the Goon assets in Cloud Ring never came, but neither did the Goons' allies, many citing recent events as the reason for changing their mind. Unprecedented (and thus far unexplained) levels of system lag made the fighting on friday night near-impossible, but the Goons were faced with a herculean task anyway, one which they clearly didn't have the infrastructure to complete. Instead, they pulled their remaining assets out using jump-capable carriers and retreated to defend their homelands and wage war on their enemies in Empire space.
While we were busy in CR, the forces of the Tau Ceti Federation, a French-speaking alliance based in the no-man's-land of Venal, seized the opportunity to attack RAWR in Tribute. Unfortunately for them, the western front collapsed far more quickly than they'd predicted and allied forces piled back east to remove this latest threat. While smaller than the Goons, TCF are far more experienced fighters and the war thus far has been hard and bloody, with one engagement seeing both sides lose seven dreadnaught-class starbase-busters apiece. The first of the two contested systems has now returned to friendly hands but D7 still remains a contested system, sitting astride a vital travel corridor and thus being a key system to control. We're confident that we will eventually evict the squatters - their botched diplomacy means a settlement is unlikely at this stage - but we're expecting the war to go on for a while yet.
The map currently looks like this: http://dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/crii/10.08.108.jpg
Cloud Ring is now in the hands of RISE, who took ownership from D2 once the Goons were cleared out. Dek is now split between D2, FLA and IRON. And, although it's not shown (the map is produced by Joshua Foiritain, who's just another player and thus not always 100% accurate), Tribute is still disputed.
That is why a lot of us play Eve. Not because of the graphics or the mechanics or how many points it gets in a poxy review. If you want to go on bashing NPCs in WoW, be my guest. We're busy fighting a full-scale galactic war, with multiple fronts, a huge logistics chain, politics, drama, territory changing hands, and people losing days or weeks of work in a single ill-judged engagement against superior forces. I can go out there in my little frigate that I could fly when I was three weeks old and play an important role (yes, really) in a key battle which helps decide the fate of a thousand stars and ten thousand space pilots. At the end of the war, one side will win and the other side will lose in a real and tangible way, and as a result all this stuff matters. There aren't that many games out there that can make the same claim.
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"There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible." |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.19 09:58:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ashley Stellia
I know why EVE is so good, but I cant put it into words.
Its all those subliminal messages.... 
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Daos Leghki
Paxton Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.19 10:13:00 -
[20]
I like the fact that you lose your stuff when you die. I know that must sound silly, but because of that, something's at stake. When you first take out your cruiser that you've been working on getting for the past week and then you see the flashy flashy and the omg, omg, panic...wait...what? I'm in Kisogo again? And after 5 minutes, your heart stops racing, you won't go to another game again.
Repopulate Low-Sec |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.19 10:16:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 19/11/2006 10:16:26
Originally by: Daos Leghki
I like the fact that you lose your stuff when you die. I know that must sound silly, but because of that, something's at stake. When you first take out your cruiser that you've been working on getting for the past week and then you see the flashy flashy and the omg, omg, panic...wait...what? I'm in Kisogo again? And after 5 minutes, your heart stops racing, you won't go to another game again.
Yep, thats a big part of it. I remember in WoW when getting killed by 10 bored level 60's roaming around... you just lost time. 5 minutes, tops. Or those rogues killing you from behind in 6 seconds.
Basicly the pvp was very boring, and I didnt feel it was fun to just run around with a rogue killing newbies. Bored the hell out of me....
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Pham Sirge
VersaTech Interstellar Ltd.
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.19 10:25:00 -
[22]
Hi all,
I gave it a shot dont know how good it will be.
Quote:
Eve: Adventure in Universe 1.0
At its core eve is a real world, it contains people.
Unlike other games Eve comprises of a set of tools which enable people to make choices about their style of play, you make choices about every aspect of your behaviour and in turn define the role of your avatar within the Universe.
Out of body but inside your mind.
Some aspects of eve feel disconnected when first viewed namely the "pod pilot" aspect. This is because most other games try to force players to identify with a character model and force them down some narrow path e.g. Kill a big bad guy. This really isnÆt role-playing, it is a single path that all players follow with differing mechanics to allow participation, eve on the other hand gives players tools and their roles are defined by their behaviour for example a solo pirate and a corp. soldier use similar equipment/tools but their roles differ greatly in the motives and outcomes of their actions, a pirate will live for the ransom or the random gank while a corp. soldier will live for defence of their space and survival of their corp.
The ship in eve is considered your equipment similar to say your armour or horse in other games and not so much your avatar. It is the way you interact with the world but it tends to have more of a role as a manipulator for the abstract pilot than a body you would loose.
Skills vs Skill.
The eve skill system comprises of a time based learning system independent of the in game time, this neatly avoids the problems associated with mindless grinding/macroing, while it appear to maintain a sort of pecking order for older players it doesn't largely because time is invested is not linearly returned, Level 1-4 = 80% of possible bonus with level 5 providing 20% each level is exponentially longer(Times 5 each level aprox E.g. 12 min, 1 hour, 5 hours, 1day 1 hour, 5 days 5 hours) to train for meaning that someone who has years ahead you, will in most cases only get a 20% benefit difference because of their skills and that is usually completely negated by increased numbers, for example: 2-3 low skill point characters (say 2 mill sp) are more dangerous than a 30 mill sp character.
In addition to pure in game skills a player learns to play the game better(skill) and as a result becomes better a newbie eBay buyer will die because they donÆt understand that having high sp doesnÆt equate a good player (unlike most other games), game play is an investment mechanic learning when to fight and when to run are hugely important no in game skills investment will ever turn a Low level hauler into a battleship killer. Also no battleship will ever be able to complete with the hold of a hauler.
WTS Wood Club 3s.
I'd say a good 90% of equipment has its use within eve just because you can use something larger doesnÆt necessarily make it better, this one aspect I find the most interesting in eve, I remember in other games you find a new piece of equipment check if its better than the stuff you already have and dump/keep it, Its stupid most equipment ends up on a scrap heap. Eve on the other hand almost everything can be fitted on something and be useful. Price plays a huge part, if you are going out and plan to loose your ship fit cheap equipment, if you are fighting for you life fit expensive. Its all useful.
P.S. Feel free to edit as see fit.
,
<VTIL> Pham Sirge
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George Petsch
Caldari
Thundercats
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.19 10:29:00 -
[23]
How about:
Quote:
Reynir: ôMacarena-dancing aliens have nothing to do with science fiction in my book. I recommend watching Aliens, Blade Runner and The Empire Strikes Back. This is what true science fiction is about and the reason we made EVE."
makes sense? |
Tao Han
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2006.11.19 10:32:00 -
[24]
I love the fact that you can fight ove territory and that it actually matters.
personally I dont "play" EVE anymore but I still hang around this forum and use the client as a advanced chat program
Hasnt played EVE for 8 months and I still will not stop paying for it, thats how good EVE is.
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Rodge
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.19 10:42:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Noriath
Well, compare it to WoW. You create a character, you are dropped into the world, there are a whole bunch of douchebags all around you but the game says they are your allies, so you are stuck with them, PvP is just a bunch of point exchanging with another faction you are not even allowed to talk to, who you really have no beef with other then the game telling you you must fight them, and no matter how much you work, no matter how gigantic of a guild you build, no matter how awsome you get at PvP, you can never just kick everyone out of a town and take it for yourself, choose who your friends and who your foes are, and leave a mark on the world. In Eve... you can.
Yup, that's exactly it. In Eve, one person can make a difference. In WOW, no matter how strong/organised/large a guild you have, you'll never make any difference to the map.
To alter the old 40k quote:
WOW is a dark place where you are one among countless millions and no matter what happens - you will not be missed!
Sig inappropriate-not eve related -Abdalion
[ 2005.04.17 00:34:30 ] Nagilam > u better leave Rodge, u will not gank any1 else 2nite......
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infraX
Caldari
Finite Horizon
The Red Skull
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Posted - 2006.11.19 10:44:00 -
[26]
Don't forget to tell them this so they don't come whining on the forums:
 When you die in pvp (or pve for that matter) you lose all your shiny epic equipment.
A 3 month 'level 60' is not immune to 10 guys that have been playing a month.
There is no 'highest' level and best equipment config to acheive where you automatically pwn everyone below you.
You can't powerlevel your way up, and you must train skills in order to progress and playing 23/7 won't make that happen faster.
You can't just walk into an instance to get 'phat loot' because a controlling alliance might take exception to you vising their 10/10 complex or NPC systems.
(could probably think of some more).
These are the main points that make WoW players go "zomg!!!!111111 I'm never playing that game!". I think most WoW players have a totally different mentality to EVE players. EVE is brutal and harsh, and that's what makes it fun, but most WoW players would be scared to death of the above points, which is why they stick to WoW and don't play EVE. What you really need to do is convince them that the above points are what makes EVE GOOD.
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Lienzo
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Posted - 2006.11.19 10:48:00 -
[27]
It is possible to lose EVE.
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Powdder
DarkStar 1
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.19 11:08:00 -
[28]
referr your friends to the NEXUS article on the eve-o home page. if that dosnt do the trick. have them watch a few of the videos, specificly the caldari outlaw one. if ALL of that dosnt work, dump your WOW buddies and start fresh with EVE buddies, as they are lost causes anyway
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Presidente Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.19 11:13:00 -
[29]
EVE's depth and complexity is awesome. When I did my trial I was immediately: "Wow, this is great!". The skilling system is absolutely nice designed. So simple the space world looks compared to much more complex environments of other games the more faszinating it is. Because: it's "infinite" space and I am now able to "live, travel and fight" there. As a big fan of SiFi movies since Star Trek and Star Wars for me a dream comes true. I don't see the skilling system "bad" in the beginning. I think this is more a problem for "power-player". As stucked by lots of reallife anomalies the system works for me perfect and I am always looking forward to the next key skills and new "toys" I can use then. The secret for enjoying EVE: be patient, learn, listen and find your path of fun.
Fly strong skilled and patient!
Presidente Gallente
"The Dude in a Brut"
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Ravenal
The Fated
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Posted - 2006.11.19 11:19:00 -
[30]
but wow player whine on forums - we dont want that do we?
. |
Synapse Archae
Amarr
Solarflare Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.19 11:21:00 -
[31]
Tell them that all the stuff they have to ROLEPLAY in other games, actually HAPPENS in eve.
I've seen so many MMOs where people have to roleplay so many parts of the game that dont really exist. In eve your logistics does matter, your organization and skill matter more than levels. You generally cant exploit or powerlevel to the top.
If you declare war on someone in another game, its like "Youre not coming to my birthday party!" Maybe you will grief them out of a popularl leveling location for a week. In Eve, youre going to crush them, see them driven before you, and listen to the lamentations of their women.
~ ~ ~
Originally by: The Knight
True, in fact...I think it was during the battle of the bulge when we first realized the Germans were using WCS. |
Griffinator
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2006.11.19 11:26:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Griffinator on 19/11/2006 11:26:45
there is one simple awnser to this just show them the opening trailer no other destiny they can view it on the first page of eve-0 tell em to watch that i guarantee at least half will go WOW i do everytime i see it
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Noriath
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Posted - 2006.11.19 11:40:00 -
[33]
EVE vs. WoW
Because our Firbolgs are better.
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Thor Xian
Vertigo One
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2006.11.19 11:57:00 -
[34]
Eve doesn't have Elves.
~Thor Xian, Material Defender
"Victory is the weakness of the enemy."
"It is better to die by my Autocannon, than to live for your Veldspar." |
Aaron Rex
Caldari
The Fated
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Posted - 2006.11.19 12:08:00 -
[35]
It was either Reynir or Hilmar at last years FanFest who put it best in my opinion. He described the two different approaches to game design: the themepark and the playground approach. WoW, EQ2 and most other MMO's are themepark style, in which (like disnyland) the game world is pretty much set out for you. All you have to do is jump on a "ride" (quest or raid a dungeon) and that is your gaming experience.
Eve, however, is more like a playground. There are a few tools like a sandbox and a slide (0.0 and outposts, for example) but you have to create the content. And because the players create the content, it makes for an entirely more immersing gaming experience. After all, the content is being created by 100k+ people instead of a few hundred devs at blizzard.
Aaron Rex - Remember the Scordite...
The Fated |
Araxmas
Caldari
Imperial Space Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.19 12:15:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Noriath
EVE vs. WoW
Because our Firbolgs are better.
hehe, nice one with that.
- Death means something
- Death hurts
- Player economy
- Player alliances have politics of some sort
- Can actually use tactics during battles
- Pvp anywhere (although police do reduce it)
- player influenced landscape
- Constantly being changed with new content and even massive overhauls when the game engine becomes out-dated.
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Illifae
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Posted - 2006.11.19 12:25:00 -
[37]
I played WoW, and I was hardcore PVP/RP... if such a thing exists
Got into EVE and never looked back. WoW made me feel ill when they moved away from making player actions meaningful (even if it was the Alliance zerg), shoved all their PVP into toytown Battlegrounds, and did nothing to support RPers.
CCP are by no means perfect, but they at least attempt to support all play styles. They trust their customers more by giving them freedom, which mostly is not abused. They do listen to their customers; though often large numbers disagree with their decisions and are very vocal about it they are generally allowed to speak out, especially if they are careful of the forum rules in what they say. I'm not saying they don't make mistakes, but as far as I can see the good intent is there, whereas Blizzard were a stone cold wall with a greedy money-grasping gnome stuck in front.
I can't see what game would be better for "deep... politics and group organization and accomplishing long term group goals" than EVE. In EVE you get huge organisations clashing and allying, and the tide of wars can be turned by a spy or a corp-thief or intel or PR. Group ethos is important in EVE, and it never stops fascinating me why and how different groups of players fail or succeed. EVE is a far more social game than WoW, as people have most of their EVE time taken up by social stuff which has meaning and is part of the game mechanics. There are full-time diplomats in EVE (though they do other fun stuff too), busy wheeling-dealing traders, CEOs managing their corpmates. There's some roving drones and ammo salesman in Syndicate ("a wretched hive of scum and villany"... great fun place) who no-one seems to shoot because he's useful.
In WoW the only real social stuff was getting in a raid, which you had to do with a bunch of people you didn't like or go play something else. I went and played EVE 
EVE allows you to put in as much time as you have, and allows you to work towards something over a period of a couple years. Even if you can only play weekends, even if you have a six-month hiatus, you can accomplish very meaningful goals.
There are as many playstyles in EVE as there are players, and as many opportunities to make a living/achieve a goal as your mind can think of.
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J Frost
Gallente
The Tafflington Trust
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Posted - 2006.11.19 12:35:00 -
[38]
Well, i'm wondering about why no body ever mentioned that there is no such thing like NE male dancing in EVE.
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Boryokudan Incorporated
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Posted - 2006.11.19 12:41:00 -
[39]
GriEvE.
GriEvE.
GriEvE.
GriEvE.
GriEvE.
GriEvE.
GriEvE.
GriEvE.
---------
Boryokudan Recruitment.
Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! |
Kunming
Amarr
adeptus gattacus
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.19 12:42:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Kunming on 19/11/2006 12:44:00
Well you cant convince WoW players to switch over to EVE.
WoW is a singleplayer game in a multiplayer environment (aka big chat room in fantasy-land). In a singleplayer game your actions and achievements wont effect the actions and achievements of other players despite the multiplayer environment.
EVE is a multiplayer.. well game, but I rather consider EVE as a virtual reality. The players not only communicate and interact with each other their actions also directly (or indirectly) effect all other players.
EVE is a "Sandbox"! You have a bunch of tools with which you achieve the goals you set your self, as opposed to WoW which puts the player on a pre-designated path depending on the character race/class you choose.
WoW is for ppl who want to be spoon fed with content and dont mind doing repetative tasks, their social agenda is to "fit in" instead of doing their own thing (its what professionals call "same-same" or "Qualified-same" personality) while EVE players want more tools instead of content for more diversified tactics and more interesting scenarios to emerge from the player base ("Qualified-Different"...). If a WoW player is 100% happy with what WoW is, he wont ever come over to EVE.
Quote:
READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
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Moridin
Interstellar eXodus
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2006.11.19 13:17:00 -
[41]
does WOW have any legends? and i mean by that players that have become famus.
does WOW have any (Fleet commanders)? |
Deidranna
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Posted - 2006.11.19 13:28:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Moridin
does WOW have any legends? and i mean by that players that have become famus.
does WOW have any (Fleet commanders)?
yes, hundrets.
every shard has its own heroes :)
and since wow is all about cool gear ...
hero = 1.st on your shard with a complete set of the brand new unholy holy mighty very shiny mk3 armor
you are a "hero" on your shard, but unknown to the rest of the 4,000,000 wow players.
you are a hero (good or bad doesn't matter) in eve and everybody knows you.
and fcs in wow are raidleaders :)
d
GM Eldini > Hi, behaving are we?
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John Grimm
The Taining corp
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.11.19 14:11:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Noriath
EVE vs. WoW
Because our Firbolgs are better.
This made my day. 
"I have not failed, I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work" |
Noriath
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Posted - 2006.11.19 14:12:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Aaron Rex
Eve, however, is more like a playground. There are a few tools like a sandbox and a slide (0.0 and outposts, for example) but you have to create the content. And because the players create the content, it makes for an entirely more immersing gaming experience. After all, the content is being created by 100k+ people instead of a few hundred devs at blizzard.
The only problem with that is that the interaction with the factions from prime fiction comes down to a minimum unfortunatly. Player content totaly whipes it out, like a bunch of players can take over the space of a pirate faction, use that faction as free income and still be welcome at their stations somehow. That does not make sense...
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Zeonos
Amarr
venus divine brotherhood
Dark Forces Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.19 14:30:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Zeonos on 19/11/2006 14:34:12
Originally by: Moridin
does WOW have any legends? and i mean by that players that have become famus.
does WOW have any (Fleet commanders)?
proberly 90% of the older wow players, and newer. on every server knows about
"The axemen" so yes there are some famous people.
just make sure the wow people you drag over here. are over the age of 14...
i like eve cause you can do alot of things. you have alot of freedom. you can relax while playing in some areas. but you can also get intense pvp.
you got lot of options to chose from. mining, ratting, trading, building and pirating.
you dont have your friends splited on deferend servers. you got mature and very helpfull people in eve. and not many of the wow kind. like. "Why should i do this, when i dont gain from it"...
btw. got two lvl 60. one 56. and 5 over 40.. but i stopped wow.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.19 15:38:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Griffinator
Edited by: Griffinator on 19/11/2006 11:26:45
there is one simple awnser to this just show them the opening trailer no other destiny they can view it on the first page of eve-0 tell em to watch that i guarantee at least half will go WOW i do everytime i see it
Personally I'd go with EVE Never Fades instead.
I like EVE because:
Skill training is real time, and continues offline. This means I am free to choose what I want to do with my game time. I don't have to go bashing NPCs to level up, all I need to do is maintain enough cash to buy the next skillbook. It means I can do all manner of 'indirect' things, like politics, logistics, intelligence gathering etc. without 'falling behind' because I haven't been making my daily XP quota.
I like the freedom in EVE. The fact that I _can_ just go postal and start shooting people in Jita (albeit not for very long) is important. The fact that I could go and pirate for people's stuff it important. The reason is quite simple - in choosing not to, my choice has meaning. If I _couldn't_ because they have a 'nopvp' flag set, or something would make that choice essentially meaningless.
EVE is not restrictive on what you can do. Many games have a 'character class' system, where if you start as e.g. a rogue, you shall be a rogue henceforth. I can learn to fly any ship in the game as well as any other character, should I be prepared to put the time into training.
Losing stuff to death is an important thing too. I lose my ship when I die. Which means it's _always_ worth using the low end (tech 1) stuff in some situations. I may be 'better' in a 250mil cerberus with T2 and faction gear fitted, but a caracal isn't staggeringly worse, and far far more replacable.
I like the fact that all the ships have uses and roles. Battleships are popular, but it's definitely the case that a 'real' fleet needs support from other types of ship.
I like the fact that I can customize my ship fitting. The 'special abilities' I have access to. Again, there's no 'one true way' of fitting a particular ship, just a questoin of what's best suited to how you like to fly, and what kind of thing you're trying to do. Fitting 4 artillery to a raven might not be a particularly good idea, but it's still doable.
Most of all I like the fact that players compete. Alliance and corp politics have a real meaning. The fact that BoB and ASCN are at war has an impact on the rest of the universe.
EVE is not a roleplay game. It's a strategy game. You get to fly your ship, and have to think strategically to do well. If you're flying in a gang it's the same. Only your units have real 'morale' and 'discipline'. You don't automatically get to be boss, you need to work to maintain trust and skill with the rest of your 'team'.
It's a game where Teamwork really does matter.
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badmortha
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2006.11.19 15:56:00 -
[47]
EVE honestly has ruined my academic life, tried to quit EVE too... I can't =(
My only addiction(eve) is my only cure(quitting eve)
:(
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DefJam101
Gallente
Praxiteles Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.19 16:08:00 -
[48]
Well for me the biggest thing is the sense of sportmanship it gives.
I haven't been doin so well with yarragebbq lately :O Lost a lot of ships
But I haven't recieved any smacktalk and I don't plan on giving any.
It's a game and your here to have fun, unlike other games peopel who disagree with that are generally shunned, hated, and thought of as idiots, shortly after they leave..
Of course none of this would be possible without all the freedom we get!
***
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Alpha Prime
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.11.19 16:27:00 -
[49]
EvE were good. Now its just a game thats going down the
drain because playerdemand > Hardware. Each Hardwareupgrade
promises us chocolate, but delivers barkbread.
CCP taking the easy way out by giving us "traffic controll"
which in turn leads to fleet taking alot longer to move around
for example. Around exodus you could instajump entire fleets
through ONE gate without the ridiculous traffic controll.
Last OP i was in, i was stuck at a gate as "nr:7 in queue" for
about 30 minutes..
30 MINUTES.
The journey which should¦ve taken less then 15 minutes, took
close to 1 hour, and this is after we recived one of our
"hardware upgrades". What stunns me the most is how
CCP fails to see that they need to doubble the hardware in
order to regain the serverstability which we had pre-exodus.
Just check the last post about BoB & ASCN. Where the **** titan
could not jump, it got stuck in queue or whatever.
CCP are trying to drive a 18wheeler loaded with cattles using
the engine of a fiat126.
Having Tux fixing the blasterships is like having
a blind man teaching you how to drive. Just wont work.
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Vharing
Amarr
Madhatters Inc.
Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2006.11.19 19:33:00 -
[50]
You should also keep in mind that Eve just isn't for everybody.
Alot of my "internet friends" came from my City of Heroes supergroup and while i miss them there is little chance of them playing Eve. I played Coh for about 6 months before it occurred to me that there is no life after level 50. My old SG members are content just playing the next alt through the same missions.
I found Coh to just be too simple. Every character/powerset was the same and really, there is little thought involved. Eve, on the other hand is incredibly complex. Alot of people have trouble getting through the tutorial. But, once past the info dump, Eve is glorious. It truly allows you to have an online alter ego. Instead of a cartoon with a cool cape, you work towards a career and prosperity. You can sign on and hang out, or you can get to work. And, honestly, the payoff isn't measured by how much ISK or skill points you have, its... something else.
So, sad to say, your WoW friends, like my CoH friends, are probably happy where they are. No flashy article or hard facts or whining will get them to give up their powerful characters in one game to start up weak noobies in another. If you are still bent on convincing them to switch, use your own words. Because it sounds to me like Eve is right up their alley, they just aren't motivated/informed enough to download the 14 day trial.
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Stakhanov
Gallente
Acid Enema Of Doomed Gerbils
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Posted - 2006.11.19 19:36:00 -
[51]
Ethics matter in Eve. They are nonexistent in other carebearish "multiplayer" RPGs. Well , I think it is irrelevant when dealing with NPCs.
I didn't play WoW , but tried Ryzom (looks fairly similar) and although entertaining for a short while , it felt terribly bland the longer I stayed. It's just a matter of unlocking fights against bigger NPCs through experience or team numbers. People often thank you for healing them , although it has zero value - health and mana regenerate anyway , so it's just a matter of saving someone's time for nothing.
In Eve , if you assist someone getting pounded and scrambled by NPCs , this move has a considerable weight - you could just wait for him to die and take his stuff instead , so he better be thankful and loyal.
And that's only the most simple situation. If you are helping someone under attack by a player pirate , you are openly behaving as an anti-pirate , so while the victim will be glad that you helped , pirates may hate you for that. You could have fled the scene instead , or attacked both as an opportunist , to maximize your profit.
Money and information have much ethical weight in Eve. The more you hoard them , the weaker your potential competitors will be , at the cost of less friends. Giving millions to random newbies may disrupt their learning of the game , so if you want to help people , it's your responsability to do it right. Money may enable one's dream in the game - which could be to ruin another's dream
Evil is allowed in Eve , and like in real life you can't just say "I'm fighting for the greater good" as it's a subjective concept. Eve is a perfect environment for complex moral values to evolve in. It's still a game , which means you can't be really harmed if you haven't agreed to the possibility (implicitly or not) , but involving enough that no action is totally innocent , however random or anecdotical.
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Lena Encompassed
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Posted - 2006.11.19 20:34:00 -
[52]
Well most ppl think in terms of what you can do with EvE.
In my opinion this game is boring in itself (missions skills manufacturing economics you name it)
So what keeps me playing?
Shivers...
Yes, shivers, tremors, goosebumps, call it whatever you want, for me is the sentation of panic i create when ever i see my screen flash red...
So what makes EvE so good? Adreneline!
Doesnt mean im right, this is what keeps ME playing...
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Capt Harlock
Band of Builders Inc.
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.11.19 21:31:00 -
[53]
EvE = Sandbox WoW = themepark Do you prefer to make your own entertainment with the toys you have in your box? Or be pushed on a roundabout until you are sick?
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Sidious Dei
Gallente
Solid Ind.
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Posted - 2006.11.19 21:51:00 -
[54]
Why I like EVE?
The ability to have a well-developed industrial life, the ability to manufacture your own ships, POS, to be able to have an active trader-life style etc.
Not just a average pewpew type of game.
The diversity of options are quite large for those that play EVE.
I like it just for that.
-Scientia Est Potentia
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Victor Valka
Caldari
Archon Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.19 22:31:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Ravenal
but wow player whine on forums - we dont want that do we?
I find that locals (EVE players) are better trained, more proficient and generally have more experience at whining.
We really don't need to import anyone from WoW when we can do the job ourselves. 
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Victor Valka
Caldari
Archon Industries
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Posted - 2006.11.19 22:36:00 -
[56]
Oh. And the reason why EVE is better then WoW - well, you only need to look at our forums.
That's right! Our sigs are way sexier!
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Flash Landsraad
STK Scientific
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.19 23:10:00 -
[57]
Created from within the depths of Iceland, CCP tend and manage EVE with the love not dissimilar to that which they hold for an ice cold beer. From Beta until now the key ingredient of EVE that is lacking from every other MMO (no matter what illusions of it they may infer) is freedom; that is the freedom to do what you want, whenever you want, to whoever you want.
Many of those who are drawn to the universe of EVE from other MMOs grumble about grief play and the like; however EVE's freedom means that very little constitutes griefing in the conventional sense. One thing that needs to be made clear to anyone thinking of taking on the challenge of EVE is that there are no safe areas, only safer areas. There are no boundaries on game play aside from those imposed by the human mind or those which break intended game mechanics (exploits), and last but perhaps most important; anything you gain can be lost just as easily. EVE is not a game for the feint hearted, EVE is not a game for those expecting to play for 60 hours a week and rise to the top within a month, EVE is not a game for those who wish to be left alone. To put this in a plainer context; if you loose your ship you will not be reimbursed, no matter who blew you up or how they did it.
However a small or large group of people (a guild in other words, or as we in EVE call it a corporation (corp)) willing to put the effort into the game can and will make a difference. Domination is possible whether it is desired in the PvP and territory grabbing side of the game (ASCN, BoB or any other large alliance comes to mind) or industry (Naga, IAC, etc...). All it takes is team work and a touch of maturity (in other words, 1337 speaking immature 11 year olds are not looked upon kindly in our community). You will loose ships, you will loose equipment, you will loose ISK, and in some of these situations it will not be fair and it will not be your own fault; however one might hope that you will at least gain enjoyment, excitement and a sense of achievement along the way.
If this does not at all bother you then please read on.
Economy:
With the vast expanse that the EVE universe provides comes an equally vast economy. Regional markets, moving averages and no regulation mean that a single person can have a large effect on the worth of individual ships and equipment with enough resources. Carelessness is punished, playing safe will make you a little and with a little luck risk will make you a lot. The way in which regional and system markets are setup means that not only can the obtaining of raw resources such as minerals through mining or equipment through NPCing make you ISK when sold, but the trading of these items to regions in which they are less common can make you more. This carries a certain small risk however since as previously stated; no where in EVE is completely safe.
The real aspect to EVE however is PvP. It has been stated by developers that EVE is primarily a PvP game and you only have to look at the way EVE is structured to realise this. Literally thousands of different types of equipment exist to be mounted upon over one hundred different ships in an infinite number of combinations to a multitude of effects.
Signature removed due to lack of Eve-related content. -Ivan K
Fair enough Ivan, sorry :( - Flash |
Cosmar
Gallente
Unified Refining Federation
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Posted - 2006.11.19 23:10:00 -
[58]
Realistically, it depends what you want in the game.
WoW is a brilliant game while leveling. Cool, classes very balanced, the world is beautiful and the instances nice, world PvP in STV wherever it happens is cool, etc..
But once you reach 60, you have a couple of weeks of meaningfull content then it's either:
- raiding. This is actually the better part, if you're into it. It takes lots of time, it's cooperative and all that. And yes it's the part that takes the most skill of the game, at least for the guilds that do it for the first time (and not the ones that read all about it in the strats).
- PvP. This part utterly sucks currently. Well it could've been really cool if they would've gone with an outdoor RvR type of system, but just like EvE can't handle large battles neither can WoW servers. So they made BGs and DKs and the honor system, the raid gear spiralled out of control in 2 years without a raise on the level cap and that was the end of WoW PvP.
If you want a PvE game (and no, not singleplayer, cooperative too), you can't get better then WoW.
If you want a PvP game WoW is not that great. It's just something to do at the level cap.
RP is so/so, in WoW you can identify with your character easier at first as well as express yourself. There's more immature people that pick on RP-ers even on RP servers (while here pretty much all seem to respect the choice).
Also the lack of influence on the gameworld, the game's biggest flaw, ultimately leaves little to do RP-wise except chit-chating by the fire or having a drink...
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Flash Landsraad
STK Scientific
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.19 23:11:00 -
[59]
Skill Points:
Granted; the way that skills work in EVE means that it is unlikely you will ever have as many skill points as someone who has been around since Beta testing, however this does not mean that you cannot be as effective in PvP as them. On the contrary you can certainly match them if not be better than some because of a single word, namely; æspecialisationÆ. Specialisation is the key to being effective in EVE PvP. Specialisation means that those with lower skill points can still be more effective than those with many more skill points than themselves. For example, someone who has 10 million skill points put into gunnery might have them spread around all of EVEÆs weapon systems. Similarly they may have 10 million skill points spread around all of EVEÆs ship classes and races. This means that they are a jack of all trades, not excelling at either race, either ship type or either weapon system. Someone with 3 million skill points in gunnery and in ships who is specialised in a single race and single weapon system will deal out more damage in their chosen race and ship class than that person with many more skill points can in any race of that ship class with any corresponding weapon system. The way EVE differs from games such as WoW is demonstrated by this. The length of time spent in EVE does not dictate how you will fair in PvP. Specialisation, player skill and situation all play a part in success in EVEÆs PvP. A four year old character in WoW will tear through a four month old character with no problems whatsoever. In EVE a four month old character with the right setup and a little experience can tear a four year old character apart. Some people have played EVE for three years plus and have never engaged in PvP. Age is a factor in PvP however not that much of one, experience counts for a lot.
It should also be mentioned that various learning skills introduced after the initial release of EVE: Online enable a player to speed up their skill training.
Specialisation:
As mentioned above specialisation is important for those wishing to be the top of their game. Whilst it may appear that there are no classes in EVE, the truth is quite the contrary.
For those that enjoy dealing out masses of damage a progression up the line of relevant frigates, cruisers and battleships to dreadnoughts is something that can be pursued.
Likewise those that enjoy helping others (a medic or æhealerÆ class as it is commonly known) can progress through a line of racial logistics ships finally ending with a carrier, mothership or titan (the last two being ships that only a few people will ever end up flying due to the sheer logistical scale of operation needed to create them).
Scouts may specialise in Covert Ops or Interceptor class ships, those who wish to travel around reasonable fast whilst still hitting hard may specialise in cruiser combat, those who wish to pursue an industrial side of the game may train up mining vessels, barges and haulers or freighters and the relevant skills. The list goes on.
Tactics:
The sheer weight of items and ships within the EVE universe makes tactics very important. Tactics range from the initial setting up of a ship and equipment right the way through to the manoeuvring of an alliance fleet. All takes knowledge of the game and as with every game the longer you play for the better you become.
Signature removed due to lack of Eve-related content. -Ivan K
Fair enough Ivan, sorry :( - Flash |
Flash Landsraad
STK Scientific
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.19 23:12:00 -
[60]
In most games bigger equals better. This is not the case in EVE. Various factors such as tracking (for guns), explosion radius and velocity (for missiles) and signature radius (the size of a ship) factor in the damage taken or not take from another ship. Whilst a battleship û the backbone ship class of EVE û deals the most damage seen from any common ship in PvP, there is a problem when this damage cannot be applied to a smaller target such as a frigate or cruiser because they are travelling too fast for larger calibre weapons to track. In this case you can take no damage from the most common heavy hitters in EVE by maintaining a high orbit.
This game mechanic means that large unprotected ships are vulnerable to groups of smaller ships. Perhaps the most extreme example of this would be the almighty dreadnought. Perhaps the most damaging ship in the game, a group of five or six battleships can take one down if it is not protected by other ship classes. This further emphasises what was talked about at the beginning; teamwork. A group of people can accomplish far more in PvP than a single person can. Two or three young players can easily take down someone who has been playing for years if they are on their own. Teamwork is the key and teamwork spells success.
I could go writing however I feel I have explained enough. This is only a sample of what EVE is and there are many more aspects of EVE which I have not even mentioned or explained such as æplayer owned stationsÆ, sovereignty of systems, outposts, fleets and things such as piracy.
Yes there are problems in EVE and yes it does become laggy sometimes, however isnÆt this the case with all MMOs? Nothing is ever balanced completely and most likely nothing ever will be. Yes we have to wait a year between each major content patch however when they come the new additions are well worth the wait.
CCP are perhaps the most personal games development company in the world and manage and constantly shape EVE: Online in the careful way that û as previously stated û a man admires a well pulled pint before drawing from it. They listen to the player base and they never implement ideas that will break or hinder game play simply because it will make them more ISKàI mean money. This love for their game combined with a ten year content plan means that EVE will be around for a long time to come.
Subscribe. Dig in. Enjoy the ride. EVE is bliss when played right.
That's my opinion anyway. My name is Flash Landsraad and I love this game.
Signature removed due to lack of Eve-related content. -Ivan K
Fair enough Ivan, sorry :( - Flash |
Major Stormer
Caldari
Red Storm Vendetta
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Posted - 2006.11.19 23:20:00 -
[61]
Because it means something.
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Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.11.20 01:01:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Moridin
does WOW have any legends? and i mean by that players that have become famus.
Google for "Leeroy Jenkins".
/Ben
How to fix Eve |
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