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Smagd Encina Technologies Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.11.21 16:15:00 - [121] Amazing, how this has turned into a typical BoB/ASCN thread. Both thumbs down. -- Thukkers do
DarkFenix Caldari Pilots From Honour	Posted - 2006.11.21 16:15:00 - [122] Edited by: DarkFenix on 21/11/2006 16:16:01 While I'm sick to death of a certain member of BoB I know blowing his own trumpet endlessly on TS, I have nothing but respect for BoB for their PvP abilities and their apparent endless insanity. It's ASCN's propaganda that bugs me more, you know, the rubbish about BoB's morale being at breaking point and similar posts. It's comically pathetic. From the way I hear the war is going, it's ASCN that's on the rocks. I'm sure they're not being destroyed quickly, after all they're Xetic Mk2 and they've been mining away for quite a while down there. They do probably have nearly endless resources, shame about the people commanding them though . Out of curiosity, has ASCN's titan actually left its safespot to fight yet?
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.21 18:28:00 - [123] Originally by: Gungankllr Originally by: Auman Out of interest what evidence are you talking about there? 1. Spies within your alliance.... Spies who would have access to our forums and teamspeak? The very things you lambast us for using? Can you even see the moral high-ground from there? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Tzrailasa Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.21 18:36:00 - [124] Originally by: Gungankllr Originally by: Auman Out of interest what evidence are you talking about there? 1. Spies within your alliance. If this'd been football, we'd have had a contender for 'Worst OWN GOAL of the decade' My views are my own. They do not represent the views of my corporation or alliance.
Gungankllr Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.21 19:10:00 - [125] As I see the BoB forum squad warming up, let me just stop you all for a second to ponder something. ASCN have never posted anything you guys have said in private, on your own private forums. Our opinion, is that private forums are a place where you should be able to talk to each other, about your common goals and interests, where the rest of Eve and especially the ISD moderators have no domain. Private forums are where you can be yourself, and say just about anything that crosses your mind without fear of losing your posting privledges. When I complain about spies, I complain about the spies that post our personal conversations here in the Eve forums. If you look back not only in the entirety of the history of this conflict, but in the history of the Ascendant Frontier, I do not believe you will find a single incident of anything another entity posts in private being made public by us. That's the difference. Of course we have spies in your alliance. We have people that report to us on a regular basis what BoB and other entities are doing. I get at least three or four evemails a week from members of different alliances wanting to sell me information about their alliance. I refer them to someone else, as I'm sure anybody in HC would be happy to attest to. You've known we had and have spies all along, which is why CYVOK knew in advance you guys were going to be attacking us. Reread the blogs you obviously have access to, and you should see what I'm talking about. As for Teamspeak servers, Ascendant Frontier has never in our history used the voice communications of an enemy against them. I enjoy a good fight just as much as the next guy. I like the feeling when after a two hour chess match fur starts flying and ships start exploding and you come out on top. I think that if we were to use BoB's teamspeak server, any victory we did get would feel cheap. We didn't really beat them, we just took advantage of knowing intimately what they were going to be doing, and I think it's cheap. In my eyes it's the very same as using a logon trap, or logging off to avoid getting killed. In many ways it's actually worse, because it's not just one person doing it, it's an entire gang, or fleet. If BoB has no qualms about doing that, then that's their right. But when they talk about how they love a good fight, they're being facetious. If a good, honest, clean fight is what you wanted, then you wouldn't need all the little extras. If anybody can't see what I'm talking about, imagine this: ASCN Fleet Commander orders the fleet to warp to planet V at 15k with close range ammo fitted. BoB TS Spy reports fleet warping to planet V with close range ammo fitted. BoB fleet warps to planet V at 100k with Long Range ammo fitted. I digress, no matter how I explain it, nor how BoB rationalize it, we are going to be diametrically opposed on the issue. Regardless if we win or lose this conflict, I hope that Eve will remember the way we tried to carry ourselves in this fight. Hidden in this signature is a secret message. I like pie.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.21 19:37:00 - [126] Edited by: Avon on 21/11/2006 19:39:15 "I think that if we were to use BoB's teamspeak server, any victory we did get would feel cheap. We didn't really beat them, we just took advantage of knowing intimately what they were going to be doing, and I think it's cheap. In my eyes it's the very same as using a logon trap, or logging off to avoid getting killed. In many ways it's actually worse, because it's not just one person doing it, it's an entire gang, or fleet. " CTRL+Q teamspeak episode? Seriously mate, you should just stop digging your hole. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.21 19:40:00 - [127] I'd just like to congratulate Gungan on the completion of his regression to the same level of gibbering lunacy that the rest of ASCN's leadership suffer from and for totally derailing what was until he stepped in a pretty good thread. Well done, you have become what you profess to hate. Blog
Boliknar The Shadow Order The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.11.21 19:46:00 - [128] Why is it everyone of these threads degenerates into a **ing contest. With a my dad can beat up your dad overtones. Fer christ's sake people grow the ** up -B-
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.21 19:47:00 - [129] Edited by: DB Preacher on 21/11/2006 19:47:46 Originally by: Gungankllr ASCN have never posted anything you guys have said in private, on your own private forums. Ah well, since Gungan broke the thread anyway... Considering what you just posted there, I guess you didn't have access to your secure forums when CYVOK was posting directly from access to TWD's forum account gained OOG were you? Yeah, must be another incident you have to look up, will have to cover up or will simply call me a liar as usual ;) /me shrugs To the OP, perhaps you should run a thread along the same lines querying the public opinion of ASCN. I'd love to see it that's for sure. dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.21 19:48:00 - [130] Originally by: Boliknar Why is it everyone of these threads degenerates into a **ing contest. With a my dad can beat up your dad overtones. Fer christ's sake people grow the ** up -B- Such language, a clear example of the sort of mature mind we should all strive to emulate. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur

Herculite Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.21 20:01:00 - [131] I had a long drawn out post but it doesn't add much so I'd like to say while some BoB stuff has been over the top, its been very factual and informative as ASCN isn't in a hurry to give its side of the story, and the HC has made some posts which seemed of questionable value. Plus the Star Wars sigs are the best things I've seen in EvE sig wise.
thoth foc Destructive Influence	Posted - 2006.11.21 20:04:00 - [132] Apparently some of your comrade want to speak with you Gungankllr... Originally by: Moghydin Ascendant Frontier I see no difference between TS or forum spying and DDOS attack on TS server or wiping out the db of enemy internal forums. Originally by: Malachon Draco Ascendant Frontier Well, I could call using TS spies and forum spies equally lame, abusive and unwanted behaviour Originally by: Joram McRory Ascendant Frontier So yes lieing to gain access to a corp for the purpose of spying is still morally wrong. Quote: [STK-S] Sku1ly FAO [RKK] Galavet Do us all a favour and get hit by a bus you stupid immature, spying little ***. Love Skully xx Originally by:** NeoTech Macro mining uses out of game mechanics to further their ingame progress, so do TS spying and forum spying. Originally by: Shardrael Ascendant Frontier honestly I dont like spying period Originally by: RogueWing Ascendant Frontier I always find it amazing that the people who beat their chest and proclaim how "uber" they are is the ones that have to resort to spying in order to win. Originally by: Sionn Klorgh Ascendant Frontier Why? Why do BOB, the almighty PVP force, need to use spies out of game to get advantages inside EVE? Fair fights not your thing perhaps? Thus, I'm sorry if I'm cynical with the rest of ASCN about honest fair play in BOB. >: )
Gungankllr Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.21 20:16:00 - [133] Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 21/11/2006 19:39:15 "I think that if we were to use BoB's teamspeak server, any victory we did get would feel cheap. We didn't really beat them, we just took advantage of knowing intimately what they were going to be doing, and I think it's cheap. In my eyes it's the very same as using a logon trap, or logging off to avoid getting killed. In many ways it's actually worse, because it's not just one person doing it, it's an entire gang, or fleet. " CTRL+Q teamspeak episode? Seriously mate, you should just stop digging your hole. One incident absolutely outweighs daily routine. Hidden in this signature is a secret message. I like pie.
Gungankllr Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.21 20:18:00 - [134] Originally by: DB Preacher Edited by: DB Preacher on 21/11/2006 19:47:46 Originally by: Gungankllr ASCN have never posted anything you guys have said in private, on your own private forums. Ah well, since Gungan broke the thread anyway... Considering what you just posted there, I guess you didn't have access to your secure forums when CYVOK was posting directly from access to TWD's forum account gained OOG were you? Yeah, must be another incident you have to look up, will have to cover up or will simply call me a liar as usual ;) /me shrugs To the OP, perhaps you should run a thread along the same lines querying the public opinion of ASCN. I'd love to see it that's for sure. dbp Evemail me what you're talking about. Also, none of whatever you're speaking of made it on public forums, now did it? which is my point. Hidden in this signature is a secret message. I like pie.
Gungankllr Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.21 20:19:00 - [135] Originally by: Blacklight I'd just like to congratulate Gungan on the completion of his regression to the same level of gibbering lunacy that the rest of ASCN's leadership suffer from and for totally derailing what was until he stepped in a pretty good thread. Well done, you have become what you profess to hate. I don't believe anything I've said was any less than the truth. Am I lying about anything I said there? Or is it just simpler not to refute anything and just call me a gibbering lunatic? Hidden in this signature is a secret message. I like pie.
Gungankllr Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.21 20:21:00 - [136] Originally by: thoth foc Apparently some of your comrade want to speak with you Gungankllr... Originally by: Moghydin Ascendant Frontier I see no difference between TS or forum spying and DDOS attack on TS server or wiping out the db of enemy internal forums. Originally by: Malachon Draco Ascendant Frontier Well, I could call using TS spies and forum spies equally lame, abusive and unwanted behaviour Originally by: Joram McRory Ascendant Frontier So yes lieing to gain access to a corp for the purpose of spying is still morally wrong. Quote: [STK-S] Sku1ly FAO [RKK] Galavet Do us all a favour and get hit by a bus you stupid immature, spying little ***. Love Skully xx Originally by:** NeoTech Macro mining uses out of game mechanics to further their ingame progress, so do TS spying and forum spying. Originally by: Shardrael Ascendant Frontier honestly I dont like spying period Originally by: RogueWing Ascendant Frontier I always find it amazing that the people who beat their chest and proclaim how "uber" they are is the ones that have to resort to spying in order to win. Originally by: Sionn Klorgh Ascendant Frontier Why? Why do BOB, the almighty PVP force, need to use spies out of game to get advantages inside EVE? Fair fights not your thing perhaps? Thus, I'm sorry if I'm cynical with the rest of ASCN about honest fair play in BOB. And I challenge you to personally speak to every one of those members and ask them if they are sick of spies, or sick of spies posting things from OOG to ingame, which is the difference. Hidden in this signature is a secret message. I like pie.
Metal Dude Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.21 20:22:00 - [137] Originally by: Gungankllr ... Of course we have spies in your alliance. We have people that report to us on a regular basis what BoB and other entities are doing. I get at least three or four evemails a week from members of different alliances wanting to sell me information about their alliance. I refer them to someone else, as I'm sure anybody in HC would be happy to attest to. ... Hypocrisy is strong in this one. So when BoB uses a spy, thatÆs a moral sin, but when ASCN does it, itÆs business as usual? How convenient. The truth will set you free
Gungankllr Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.21 20:28:00 - [138] Originally by: Metal Dude Originally by: Gungankllr ... Of course we have spies in your alliance. We have people that report to us on a regular basis what BoB and other entities are doing. I get at least three or four evemails a week from members of different alliances wanting to sell me information about their alliance. I refer them to someone else, as I'm sure anybody in HC would be happy to attest to. ... Hypocrisy is strong in this one. So when BoB uses a spy, thatÆs a moral sin, but when ASCN does it, itÆs business as usual? How convenient. And once again you're skipping the entire point, because it's convenient to not listen to what I'm saying. It's a given in any large alliance that they will have players/alts in different alliances to provide intel. I'm not disputing that, nor denying we do that. In the context of what I've said, it all stemmed from being sick and tired of people from BoB posting our personal thoughts and feelings from a private area into a public one, which is something we have not and will not do to them. Stop skipping over what I mean in an attempt to score points. Hidden in this signature is a secret message. I like pie.
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.21 20:41:00 - [139] Edited by: DB Preacher on 21/11/2006 20:42:17 Originally by: Gungankllr Originally by: DB Preacher Edited by: DB Preacher on 21/11/2006 19:47:46 Originally by: Gungankllr ASCN have never posted anything you guys have said in private, on your own private forums. Ah well, since Gungan broke the thread anyway... Considering what you just posted there, I guess you didn't have access to your secure forums when CYVOK was posting directly from access to TWD's forum account gained OOG were you? Yeah, must be another incident you have to look up, will have to cover up or will simply call me a liar as usual ;) /me shrugs To the OP, perhaps you should run a thread along the same lines querying the public opinion of ASCN. I'd love to see it that's for sure. dbp Evemail me what you're talking about. Also, none of whatever you're speaking of made it on public forums, now did it? which is my point. Sorry, I'm not here to satisfy your ignorance about your alliance, I posted above exactly what I meant and if you can't understand that then.... /me shrugs And whether you post on here or on your forums, there is absolutely no difference. It's still reposting of our forum material. So keep your high and mighty attitude to yourself gungan because you have no footing morally, legally or anyotherly. bye now. dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Metal Dude Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.21 20:42:00 - [140] Originally by: Gungankllr Originally by: Metal Dude Originally by: Gungankllr ... Of course we have spies in your alliance. We have people that report to us on a regular basis what BoB and other entities are doing. I get at least three or four evemails a week from members of different alliances wanting to sell me information about their alliance. I refer them to someone else, as I'm sure anybody in HC would be happy to attest to. ... Hypocrisy is strong in this one. So when BoB uses a spy, thatÆs a moral sin, but when ASCN does it, itÆs business as usual? How convenient. And once again you're skipping the entire point, because it's convenient to not listen to what I'm saying. It's a given in any large alliance that they will have players/alts in different alliances to provide intel. I'm not disputing that, nor denying we do that. In the context of what I've said, it all stemmed from being sick and tired of people from BoB posting our personal thoughts and feelings from a private area into a public one, which is something we have not and will not do to them. Stop skipping over what I mean in an attempt to score points. No. Members of your alliance have time after time ridiculed BoB for using spies. Period. Not because BoB let EVE community know what whiners and liars you really are. ASCN should be grateful that BoB posted ASCN internal lies on public forum. At least we let you know about it and we donÆt hide that we have spies. ASCN talks morality, but behind the scenes; they do the very same thing that they are complaining about, there for the hypocrisy. BoB posts your internal lies on the public forums, because quite frankly, where else can we dispute the lies that you feed your members? On your internal forums? Or maybe we should just let you keep spewing the lies about GMÆs, node crashes, POTCS etc. and donÆt defend ourselves? Not going to happen. Ever. The truth will set you free

thoth foc Destructive Influence	Posted - 2006.11.21 20:52:00 - [141] Originally by: Gungankllr And I challenge you to personally speak to every one of those members and ask them if they are sick of spies, or sick of spies posting things from OOG to ingame, which is the difference. Unfortunately, since i dont recognise (personal opinion ofc) a difference between gaining the information for ASCN HC use only, and gaining the information for more general use, it's going to be kind of difficult for me to explain it to anyone else.. You decide to share whatever information you gain using spies with less ppl.. but you still gain it.. and share it.. and use it... after that i consider your excuses.. splitting hairs... >: )
Gungankllr Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.21 21:14:00 - [142] Edited by: Gungankllr on 21/11/2006 21:26:18 Nobody in ASCN disputes that spying is part of the game. Like it or not, it's there. The only reason anybody from ASCN even brings up spying, is because you guys feel the need to post our private messages in public. You're welcome to post your opinions on anything you feel like on your private forums, you're safe there. Say anything you want about ASCN, lies or not, because we aren't going to stoop to your level and copy your opinions and private thoughts for other people to see. Show me anywhere that an ASCN HC or myself has denied we use spies. Now use the correct context I'm speaking of. I don't personally like spies. I like the unknown, I like the adrenalin rush of hearing there's an enemy fleet 4 jumps from your space and you've got less than 4 minutes to get a gang together and defend. I like the random chance that a single pilot hanging out somewhere spots an enemy fleet you had no idea was there, or had any intention of attacking you. I have never accepted an offer from a "defector" or a "spy", I'm not a big fan, never have been. I've got 11 messages in my inbox right now from people wanting to defect/offering forum access/offering TS access. I pass them along to somebody else, and I'm sure that any number of the alts that have contacted me can attest to that. Look at every single post I have ever made, and you'll see that I've never said anything about us not using spies. I've said I don't like them, in the context that BoB uses them to post our personal correspondence in the public arena. Anything that has been posted about BoB on our forums was usually the opinion of the poster. Does that automatically make it a lie? Making a statement you believe to be true is not a lie. A lie is a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood. I haven't seen any of you prove without a shadow of a doubt that anything said was a lie, under the widely accepted definition of the word. Anyway, I'm moving on. You're right, I'm wrong. I'm right, you're wrong. We're both idiots for spending so much time of our lives arguing over such stupid points. I'm done. Call me when you have something new. Hidden in this signature is a secret message. I like pie.
Herculite Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.21 21:45:00 - [143] Edited by: Herculite on 21/11/2006 21:46:34 I liked the above reply before you edited out the 'retard' part. Edit:Must be hard being a diplomat and not being able to express your true feelings eh?
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.21 21:51:00 - [144] Originally by: Gungankllr Nobody in ASCN disputes that spying is part of the game. Yet people like skully wish those that publish material gained this way gets hit by a bus. Nice, hey?
Dr Einkeisel Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.21 21:54:00 - [145] Actually if you do have accsess to our forums, It would be very interesting to see what you can dig up and post it here. But I doubt you would find anything since we have no reason to lie to members.
Hermia HIVE	Posted - 2006.11.21 21:55:00 - [146] I for one thoroughly enjoy the drama, its corstic, its gritty and keeps COAD a daly routine for me (although i rarely post on it). Doesnt get better when someone comes here with sensationalist acusations leading to a rollercoster of clever exchange and manipulation of words. For time strapped people its basically "The game". Oh and people think its bad now? Heh it was much worse (or much more fun depending how you view it) during a particular war some years ago, this place was seething red garnished with RL death threats i kid you not. Something had to be done and development stepped in, some good decisions some bad, most of it was protection aganst ourselves i think, ccp actually love us. Without a shadow of doubt the best speaker on the Eve online forums was miss "Jade Constantine", the style was fabulous displays of high literacy and great stage setting. I feel sorry for people that missed it, i cant put in words how above-the-rest he really was. Digital communitist while being as clever with words is like a mechanical reproduction of jade, devastatingly efficient he can turn the most reasonable sounding post into utter rubbish, its fun to watch but too iron clad for me (hes still on my list of people to watch tho). i prefer the artfull dodgers in eve, charisma n all. Please keep manufacturing the drama guys!
thoth foc Destructive Influence	Posted - 2006.11.21 22:10:00 - [147] Originally by: Gungankllr Nobody in ASCN disputes that spying is part of the game. Like it or not, it's there. The only reason anybody from ASCN even brings up spying, is because you guys feel the need to post our private messages in public. You're welcome to post your opinions on anything you feel like on your private forums, you're safe there. Say anything you want about ASCN, lies or not, because we aren't going to stoop to your level and copy your opinions and private thoughts for other people to see. Show me anywhere that an ASCN HC or myself has denied we use spies. Now use the correct context I'm speaking of. I don't personally like spies. I like the unknown, I like the adrenalin rush of hearing there's an enemy fleet 4 jumps from your space and you've got less than 4 minutes to get a gang together and defend. I like the random chance that a single pilot hanging out somewhere spots an enemy fleet you had no idea was there, or had any intention of attacking you. I have never accepted an offer from a "defector" or a "spy", I'm not a big fan, never have been. I've got 11 messages in my inbox right now from people wanting to defect/offering forum access/offering TS access. I pass them along to somebody else, and I'm sure that any number of the alts that have contacted me can attest to that. Look at every single post I have ever made, and you'll see that I've never said anything about us not using spies. I've said I don't like them, in the context that BoB uses them to post our personal correspondence in the public arena. Anything that has been posted about BoB on our forums was usually the opinion of the poster. Does that automatically make it a lie? Making a statement you believe to be true is not a lie. A lie is a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood. I haven't seen any of you prove without a shadow of a doubt that anything said was a lie, under the widely accepted definition of the word. Anyway, I'm moving on, because arguing with you guys is like wading in a river of blended retard. Flame away. I think the phrase your looking for is Lying by omission. The vast majority of posts i've seen from ASCN members neglected to differentiate which aspects of spying they approved of and which they found morally reprehensible.. so you should also add a reference for "Moving the goalposts".. but since you've enlightened us, it's entertaining to now watch you cherry pick which aspects of spying ASCN have been involved in.. i'm eagerly awaiting the next addition of: "Well we arent as high on the moral high ground as we might have let you think.. but we're still higher than BOB!!11!!" (catchy title copyrighted to me) >: )
Cyleth Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.22 00:30:00 - [148] Originally by: Gungankllr If anybody can't see what I'm talking about, imagine this: ASCN Fleet Commander orders the fleet to warp to planet V at 15k with close range ammo fitted. BoB TS Spy reports fleet warping to planet V with close range ammo fitted. BoB fleet warps to planet V at 100k with Long Range ammo fitted. Gungan, I think it's pretty naive to think such a situation would happen because of TS spying and not 'cause of effective cloakers. If you don't understand why a hostile(I say hostile here since it can apply to more parties than just ascn and BoB) fleet would jump to 100, whether you had short or long range ammo fitted, is not my concern. And I'm not saying 100 would be the perfect range for that. I know Gyro would take D2 fleet to 50-60km... -- Nobody stays behind
Liet Traep Minmatar Black Lance Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.22 02:55:00 - [149] Originally by: Prodigy Z Personally the BOB propaganda leaves me thinking less of them as an organization. I know that they are a formidable adversary from a PVP perspective but they very much slant things in their favor. They are constantly telling the community how they are better than everyone else and we all suck. I give BoB a thumbs down. There are some very good decent Bob pilots. But overall I find their organization unpleasant. I find them arrogant and I don't like dealing with them. Despite the fact that I have more personal reasons for disliking ASCN BoB's relentless propaganda makes me want to root for anyone fighting them. From talking to people I know in BoB I get the feeling that they all feel if you're not in BoB you just don't rate. I don't know if that's a fair representation of their beliefs or not but it's the impression they give off. I find BoB arrogant, I don't like dealing with them, I don't like fighting them. I always feel with dealing with them that they think this is their game and that we should be lucky that they let us play or haven't conquered us yet. I'd like to see less posts by BoB and less smack from them in local. Maybe then it wouldn't be such a chore to share this game with them.
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.22 09:30:00 - [150] Tbh, most of the time stuff has been lifted and put onto public forum's has been to prove that were not what ascn are lying about internally, Stop making up bs and it will stop appearing on forum's, simple no? How exactly did you come to earn the space your currently inhabit? BoB lite let them keep it when they surrendered to us and stabbed Xetic between the shoulderblades.



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