I don't think anyone but the harshest of trolls would make any real claim that WiS couldn't be an awesome addition to EVE.

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Hijacking thread here ::

Since it is agreed that WiS is dead, may I ask if there is anyone (apart from trolls) who can find merit in its first iteration, CQ.

Does this add anything to EvE ?

I can't myself, think of anything, and I think that CSM ought to look at asking EvE to decommission it, thereby releasing the additional resources tied into CQ for a more useful prupose -- perhaps the reduction of HiSec to noob systems, and a trade hub or two, to allow for a more open relationship between predator and prey, or the abandonment, little by little, of CONCORD activity, as the Empires turn to deal with the Sleeper menace.

They'd waste the least amount of time to just simply leave it as is, which is exactly what they seem to be doing. CQ is far from a finished product it was meant to be. It's pretty much seemingly decommissioned already since nothing has really come out relating to it since Incarna, minus what patch work and optimization was needed to make it more stable and less likely to smoke people's rigs.

If you don't like it or don't use it, then don't use it or continue not using it. Some people still like hopping on the couch after a rough day and watch old RnK or Garmination vids on the tv.

The fact is, CCP took their best shot (personally, I would argue they took their second best shot, Ambulation was far closer to what we had asked for than the abortion that was Incarna), and they fumbled it so badly, that ultimately scrapping the whole thing and starting from scratch would have to be a serious consideration in the best way to develop avatar play.

Ultimately we aren't opposed to the [bi]vision[/i], but we have serious, well founded and supported by ample evidence, belief that CCP is physically and mentally unable to deliver. And last time, the attempt was such an embarrassment to CCP, and so detrimental to the game as it stands, that a second attempt can not even be contemplated without serious and sincere reassurance that the game wont be allowed to grow mouldy in the corner again while they make the attempt. The game survived WiS, and some would argue that in the end we profitted from it, since the violence of the backlash drove CCP out of the melaise of half-baked features and in to repairing and improving the games core. But a repeat performance might drive the stake in for good.

The second problem is that the dream has long outstretched any sensible possibility (ask anyone what they think WiS should include and you'll get a list of insane in-the-sky features), such that the only result of any attempt will be another round of crushing disappointment. Add to the fact that any attempt at a multiplayer WiS probably means the entire avatar system has to be rebuilt from the ground up (we still, in all these years have seen no evidence that the current avatar system wouldn't collapse and meltdown utterly with multiple characters operating in the same instance), which risks alienating those members of the community who are satisfied and enjoy the current avatars and clothing.

And finally, the arguement for WiS has always proclaimed "But Star Citizen and other games will have Avatars". Well, there is no prize in this competition for second place. Devoting money and dev time in to becoming "also has avatars, but not as good as" is no improvement. Better CCP focus on EvE's strengths, and what draws players to it, and ensure those players are happy and staying around, than cater to the audience of another game that does that feature better, and gain nothing from the effort.

The trolls are right though. Nobody plays Eve because of the stations. People who like to walk around and customize their character won't play Eve just because of WiS. It's pointless.

. It sounded pretty cool and yes lots of others games will have WiS so lets not pretend its because CCP can't do it. More the case that some vocal players dont want it. They dont like change and complain about everything anyway.

The current direction of making everything lifeless and dull, default ship skins, Neocom, et cetera.
I would rather WiS creation is postponed until the development direction changes.

No they don't. Even WoW doesn't get close to what eve would need for WiS. Star Citizen is not really even a MMO.

Getting 2000 people or more to walk around in a single station is not trivial. In fact the standard way right now to deal with that is to run shards/phases and of course you have different non interacting "realms" between sections of the station.

So happens when your 100 man corp docks? you all even up in the same station yet can't see each other....

And yet why? for what? what does it add to *eve*? If you want to sit on a space toilet with a few dozen people per server, go play star lamo...

Let them make their game and lets see how it turns out.

We did, and we have. And the fact that the fruit of that is not sufficient for even you (as someone who wants WiS), because you are here asking for more, should be a stronger indication of the problem than anything we say to you.

We have WiS. It's here, it's released, and it's utter, unforgivable crap. If CCP had the ability to satisfy your dreams, this arguement would be moot, because we would have it, sitting there in game. Instead they gave us what they were capable of, and its so far removed from the vision that you are talking as if it doesn't exist.

Pro:
GÇó It would be neat in a couple of vague, undefined, and non-general ways.

Contra:
GÇó The cost:benefit ratio approaches infinity.

There. That covers pretty much all of it.

Well arent you smart and clever

Yes. Everything beyond those points is largely pointless at this point.

Those werent points at all, in fact you pretty much said nothing. You must be one of those people that has to post in every thread even if you have nothing to say or contribute. Great for you have a blast on the forum but if its pointless discussing this for you then simply don't.

Those werent points at all

They were points. You could at least try to understand them or ask. I understand that many people are against it, but being ignorant simply because it opposes your viewpoint is not what a discussion should be about. Ask and you shall receive or ignore and face opposition.

Funny that you didn't clarify then

I don't think anyone but the harshest of trolls would make any real claim that WiS couldn't be an awesome addition to EVE.

The problem is that CCP does not have infinite budget and developer resources, so it's not really a question of how interesting WIS would be on its own merits. It's a question of priorities, and how much WiS couild add to the EVE experience for the cost vs all the other space-shippy-things CCP could be spending their time doing.

And put in context and taken out of the vacuum, it becomes evident that a huge portion of the player-base would rather see CCP focusing their limited resource pool on improving the core game that includes spaceships as I think most people feel it's a better experience/cost return.

The real missed opportunity, I think, is that while CCP apparently had money and devs to burn on WoD and Dust415, they COULD have instead burned those resources on a WiS addon/module/whatever for EVE, but didn't. I can't imagine they would have gone through the money any faster, and couldn't possibly be in a worse place for it than they are now. Too late for that now though...

No they don't. Even WoW doesn't get close to what eve would need for WiS. Star Citizen is not really even a MMO.

Getting 2000 people or more to walk around in a single station is not trivial. In fact the standard way right now to deal with that is to run shards/phases and of course you have different non interacting "realms" between sections of the station.

So happens when your 100 man corp docks? you all even up in the same station yet can't see each other....

And yet why? for what? what does it add to *eve*? If you want to sit on a space toilet with a few dozen people per server, go play star lamo...