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$ to GTC to ISK breaks the game of course

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Removal Tool Flashman Services Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.21 13:41:00 - [31] That's your response? Shut up and play the game? Maybe because the strategy factor of the game, the reason we create support accounts, do research, compete economically, etc. has been rendered pointless. What's left is skill in a given ship which is still cool but then why have any currency at all if that's is all that is left in EVE? Resources in EVE is THE key element in the game. It determines the actual level of risk taken. Now that is gone. Gone like the integrity of the average person. WHere winning is everything and how you play the game means nothing. I think EVE was designed to match wits not wallets. And to those that say life and EVE are unfair, so play ball...that's such a cop out. Life is unfair as we cannot control if we are born to rich parents or poor parents etc. But the phrase of life (and EVE, or anything else) not being fair has been the excuse for people not to be fair, or behave with any integrity. Would Chess be the classic test of wits if a player could buy extra Queens? http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b157/blacklabelsar/BoSSiggyFinal.jpg Signature dimensions exceeds max 400x120 dimensions allowed. Mail us if you have any questions -Eldo Fight with your heart and balls!
Flyyn Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.11.21 13:50:00 - [32] I am going to respond like I always do...So when I purchase all I need to destroy your corp, by useing funds I get by 'tradeing' isk for GTC. Thats ok? GTC trades for isk is wrong...I know people who do it. But cause CCP gets their cut, its ok. So when I get my dread, mothership, and titan. Useing this rather large settlement I just got from workmans comp. And come in and just total out your corp. Well its ok, cause CCP got their cut out of the deal. LOL Yeah why play the game at all then? CCP ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!! Lets stop the I-Win-buttons. Release tech II BPO's to the npc market, end this silly lottery. Stop allowing GTC for isk trades. Your makeing the game unplayable to some people, and giving I-win-buttons to others just cause they have alot of cash in real life!! This is as bad as it can get, but don't bet on it.
Lucy Moo	Posted - 2006.11.21 14:19:00 - [33] Edited by: Lucy Moo on 21/11/2006 14:26:16 Originally by: Major Stormer I dont think its "gamebreaking". I do NOT like it, but Its not creating anymore ISK, just transfering it, unlike farmers and complex farmers etc. Where do you think the people who are buying the GTC's with isk got their isk from? Thats right, they farmed it, from npcs, complexes, mining and the such. Not that i'm defending isk sellers, i depise them just as much as i despise this whole GTC for isk thing, but it is true that when someone buys a GTC with isk, they are transfering isk that they farmed, this is exactly what isk sellers are doing, they are transfering isk which they have farmed, or did you think they make it appear with a magic isk button?
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2006.11.21 14:19:00 - [34] Originally by: Removal Tool Hey CCP, exactly how does your allowance of $ to GTC to ISK (in other words buying isk) not break EVE and make any legit in-game isk earning pointless? Can someone explain to me how this is notcorruption? It's no different than a rich RL Corporation bribing a government, right? Thus removing competition? I dare CCP to give an answer that explains this. Instead of demanding that others provide evidence and reasoning to disprove your assertions, how about you state the basis for the title of your thread? Rhetoric ftl tbtfh. Originally by: Ask Ninja Kill all the wolves you're gonna have a crapload of bunnies, and by bunnies I mean stupid people.
Zolyart	Posted - 2006.11.21 15:45:00 - [35] Originally by: Removal Tool Hey CCP, exactly how does your allowance of $ to GTC to ISK (in other words buying isk) not break EVE and make any legit in-game isk earning pointless? Can someone explain to me how this is notcorruption? It's no different than a rich RL Corporation bribing a government, right? Thus removing competition? I dare CCP to give an answer that explains this. I say this as a player of 2 years with 2 accounts who wants to continue playing this game. It is a fact of (real) life that people who make more money than you will be able to buy more stuff than you. There is nothing you can do to stop it. EVAR!!! The solution is to go out and make money so that you can get that stuff (whether it is nice T.Vs or "virtual" items in games). I'm sorry IF the country you are from does not allow this. The one I live it does.
Zooish	Posted - 2006.11.21 15:49:00 - [36] Bored ............ CCP sort out the forums, its getting pathetic.
Ravenal The Fated	Posted - 2006.11.21 15:53:00 - [37] Originally by: Removal Tool It's no different than a rich RL Corporation bribing a government, right? Thus removing competition? I dare CCP to give an answer that explains this. I say this as a player of 2 years with 2 accounts who wants to continue playing this game. the point of this game (any game for that matter) is having fun. Having bundles of isk does somewhat give you an opportunity someone who hasnt got bundles will not have. Boiled down to pvp - everybody should be able to afford a simple frigate with basic equipment and be able to do some fun blowing up of things. all in all, isk != fun, only more "options" .
ceaon Gallente Porandor	Posted - 2006.11.21 15:55:00 - [38] IMO the best about GTC is that even are changed to get ISK in game from RL CCP control the number on GTC selled stuff like that keep BIG farmer away from eve my sig
Removal Tool Flashman Services Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.21 16:00:00 - [39] Lucy: regardless of the fact that the isk is earned by the seller, buying isk is still a cheat. Tommy: Did you read the thread? Which part do you not understand. Please re-read. Zolyart: Cash for Isk is a cheat. Nothing will change that. Zooish: Why did you even post? You added nothing except that you want this post censored. Revenal: Eve is about more than flying ships. Did any of you read and understand the posts in this thread? http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b157/blacklabelsar/BoSSiggyFinal.jpg Signature dimensions exceeds max 400x120 dimensions allowed. Mail us if you have any questions -Eldo Fight with your heart and balls!
Zolyart	Posted - 2006.11.21 16:03:00 - [40] Originally by: Removal Tool Zolyart: Cash for Isk is a cheat. Nothing will change that. Anything that CCP allows, by definition, is not a cheat.
Na'Thuul Caldari Blood Inquisition Sani Khal'Vecna	Posted - 2006.11.21 16:04:00 - [41] Originally by: Miss Social Originally by: Removal Tool Miss Social, I never suggested that you didn't deserve to play EVE. Can I skip soaking my head? But what about the EVE player that works, had family, etc. and would rather not spend his income to play the game beyond the monthly fee? Does EVE become that expensive? If you get into T2 stuff eve is that expensive. My problem is I have a habit of losing ships when I really shouldn't. Lets see, my main has 30+ BS losses. Of those 30 I am sure 25 were very preventable. So my suggestion to you is don't be like me, play smart and your isk should go quite far. (Unless you want T2 ships/gear then well...) I spend about 5 hours a week playing and about one of those five hours is devoted to easy money making (IE not a huge return). The other 4 hours I am losing isk left and right. Now maybe if I became very serious about Eve and did spend 17 hours a week playing I wouldn't buy timecards but since they are an option it is the way I play the game. I know I would have quit ages ago when losing battleship #4 meant four more hours of mining. Instead I purchased a time card and kept playing. Thanks. You just proved that ISK != Winbutton Who cares if people buy ISK for cash with GTCs, only means more people using ships they shouldn't be in and thus more nice loot to pry from their cold dead fingers --- [08:41:12] Nebulai > unless your offering me cheap pills, I don't see it
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2006.11.21 16:25:00 - [42] Edited by: Shameless Avenger on 21/11/2006 16:27:13 OK, now this discution is just pointless...really, do the math for yourself. The guys are talking about buying T2 fitted Battleships with RL money... here's how to do the math: 1) Calculate the current price (ISK) of a T2 Fitted BS 2) Investigate the current exchange rate for ISK<->GTC 3) Investigate the RL cost of the GTC 4) Calculate how much RL money u need for the T2 Fitted BS 5) Backtrace the thread, verify how frecuently the T2 Fitted BS needs to be replaced (due to pawnage). 6) Calculate the Montly RL money income needed to cope with the Ship losses. When finish, please post here how many hundreds (or maybe thousands) of dollars a month you need to acomplish what this thread is whining about. Seriously, I'm curious edit: I didn't spell check, I'm veyng lazy todai
Removal Tool Flashman Services Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.21 19:49:00 - [43] Zolyart you are correct that cash for isk is now condoned and encouraged by CCP. IÆve stated that this is my issue. Since it is condoned by CCP makes it not a cheat in the eyes of CCP. ThatÆs where the corruption lies. If tomorrow the police said that it is ok to punch a little kid in the head and steal his candy, would that make it less wrong to do that? Not in the least. And if the Police somehow benefited from this each time it happened, would that not be corruption? Of course it would. Now thatÆs a silly analogy but I think that the point is made. NaÆThuul, thank you for seeing that facts as you do. Now if it just came down to noobs flying and losing expensive ships that would be fine. But what about previous responders pointing out that in a war of attrition, cash for isk could determine the outcome of said war? That right there is the key issue. And Shameless, I raise a valid point. Why characterize it as a whine? I think the true whine is ôI donÆt put in enough time to really play the game and itÆs not fair so IÆll buy isk for cashö. Again IÆll state that I work full-time and put in an average amount of game time. I also rat to support my PvP. Now if CCP reversed their decision, stopped allowing isk for sale, and took all possible measures to prevent isk sales of any kind, then I would happily spend lots of game-time hunting Macro-miners. http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b157/blacklabelsar/BoSSiggyFinal.jpg Signature dimensions exceeds max 400x120 dimensions allowed. Mail us if you have any questions -Eldo Fight with your heart and balls!
Wilfan Ret'nub Singularity.	Posted - 2006.11.21 20:08:00 - [44] What's next, a whine about people with multiple accounts and how it's not fair they get double and more SPs to play with and always-on gang members? Followed by a whine about people with top of the line graphic card(s) and multiple displays who have unfair advantage of less lag and can absorb information easier? Money gives you an advantage in real life. Same happens in MMORPGs, especially those that try to mimic the cold, brutal aspects of it. ------ No ISK, no fun
Aries Acheron Caldari The Valour	Posted - 2006.11.21 20:29:00 - [45] Macro Miners are going to exist if you have GTC or not. It's probably a good thing to screw with them as much as possible, since they mindlessly generate large amounts of cash, for sale with out of game dollars. How does a GTC differ from this? GTC are legitimate, and more trustworthy with CCP's oversight. Thus, people are less likely to get scammed. It also combats inflation, since human beings are making the ISK to buy them, not an army of asian super-farmers, or scripts. Money just gets transferred. No new money is created. Inflation is fought. Everyone wins. CCP gets 15 bucks a month to keep this great game running, GTC seller gets a load of ISK, GTC buyer gets gametime for no RL money, Soul-less Farmer gets less ill-gotten gains. ~~~ Action! Suspense! Jita! http://survive-eve.blogspot.com/
Merciless1 Arcana Imperii Ltd. Sani Khal'Vecna	Posted - 2006.11.21 21:08:00 - [46] Removal Tool...Just stop this nonsense, this goes for all you other GTC whiners. For the record i have never bought or a sold a timecard. RMT(Real money trade) will always be a part of any online game. As longe as there are expensive high end items and people willing to grind and sell isk there will always be an RMT market. Yes it sucks, but it cannot be stoped. Think about it, every commercially sucessful MMO has an RMT market, EVERY ONE, as long as there is a demand for that service there will be sombody looking to cash in. GTC selling has reduced the price of 3rd party isk sales, taken money out of the macro bussiness, and supplied CCP with added revanue that they can devote to game devolopment. What it boils down to is you have one or the other, to my knowledge no other MMO company has been able to eliminate the RMT for any of thier games. So we have the lesser of two evils. To think CCP can single handedly eliminale the RMT when all others have failed is foolish Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Question: If I log in and out 29 times in a row and I still lose my ship can I petition?
Removal Tool Flashman Services Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.21 21:35:00 - [47] Months back PCGAMER Mag stopped running ads for sites Farmer sites for the good of gaming, even though it meant less revenue for the mag. They wrote a big editorial about it. So if that's where it lies, that in-game currency will always be available for cash, and it is made known by all considering playing a MMORPG, I would venture that less gamers will choose to play a MMORPG. I guess integrity has gone out of style and we all lower ourselves to the lowest common denominator since the next guy will too. A sad state of affairs indeed. Next everyone will be condoning the logout exploit. http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b157/blacklabelsar/BoSSiggyFinal.jpg Signature dimensions exceeds max 400x120 dimensions allowed. Mail us if you have any questions -Eldo Fight with your heart and balls!
Kaden Seer Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.21 22:07:00 - [48] Originally by: Zooish Bored ............ CCP sort out the forums, its getting pathetic. I agree, who gives a frog?
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2006.11.21 22:07:00 - [49] Edited by: Tommy TenKreds on 21/11/2006 22:08:40 Originally by: Removal Tool Tommy: Did you read the thread? Which part do you not understand. Please re-read. Merely responding does not make you astute. Your first post offers absolutely no evidence for the claims you make. Nor do any of your subsequent ones, but it is enough that you do not understand how to position a debate correctly, nor justify your assertions. Provide some evidence of the negative effects of GTC for ISK trades or I will continue to have nothing but contempt for your claims. Incidentally, no-one is required to show evidence to the contrary until you can provide something to support your claims, since they are baseless and empty. Originally by: Ask Ninja Kill all the wolves you're gonna have a crapload of bunnies, and by bunnies I mean stupid people.
Removal Tool Flashman Services Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.21 22:30:00 - [50] Ok Tommy, I am suggesting that one player being able to buy isk with cash, while another earns their isk through game mechanics, is not be equitable. This point has been made by myself and other responders so I asked you to re-read the thread. There's really nothing left to say, I just wanted to answer you. I AM suprised that some people are wanting this thread censored. Why could that be? Is it that some don't want the truth to be told? http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b157/blacklabelsar/BoSSiggyFinal.jpg Signature dimensions exceeds max 400x120 dimensions allowed. Mail us if you have any questions -Eldo Fight with your heart and balls!
Melianna	Posted - 2006.11.21 22:40:00 - [51] Edited by: Melianna on 21/11/2006 22:43:55 The difference between eBay isk-sellers (and other sites that do it) is that with GTC-for-ISK, nobody is making a real-money cash profit on it except CCP. Nobody is pulling dollars out of the system by selling virtual goods. The only thing they're doing is getting more play time. That defrays expenses, which is not the same thing as profiting. Edit: And in most cases, the money that CCP makes is money that they'd be making anyway... if there were no GTC-for-ISK, the cash spent on time-cards by people looking to trade it for ISK would, instead, be spent by those players who have been selling their ISK for time. It balances.
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2006.11.21 22:45:00 - [52] Originally by: Removal Tool Ok Tommy, I am suggesting that one player being able to buy isk with cash, while another earns their isk through game mechanics, is not be equitable. This point has been made by myself and other responders so I asked you to re-read the thread. There's really nothing left to say, I just wanted to answer you. It is not equitable, I agree. But you cannot prevent people from gaining game advantages with their real money. Moreover, it remains a better solution than other forms of RMT, at least as far as CCP's revenues and protection of their customers are concerned. Originally by: Removal Tool I AM suprised that some people are wanting this thread censored. Why could that be? Is it that some don't want the truth to be told? I expect that most people grow increasingly frustrated with the readiness of people like yourself to grab a soapbox and put forward the same arguments incessantly. What is worse, you use rhetoric (which is a dangerous tool) rather than facts to further the debate. There is always the danger that people will be taken in by it and CCP will bow to the pressure of the subsequent majority. I believe this would be detrimental to Eve and CCP. It would most certainly be detrimental to me. Originally by: Ask Ninja Kill all the wolves you're gonna have a crapload of bunnies, and by bunnies I mean stupid people.
Serpensis Gallente UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.21 22:55:00 - [53] The influx of ISK thru GTC, breaks the entire concept of player driven economy. Its like when certain countries starts printing money because they are running out of it, the economy will eventually collapse. Its just a matter of time. -- "Fear accompanies the possibility of death, calm sheperds its certainty."
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2006.11.21 22:58:00 - [54] Originally by: Serpensis The influx of ISK thru GTC, breaks the entire concept of player driven economy. Please provide some justification for this statement or it is meaningless. Originally by: Serpensis Its like when certain countries starts printing money because they are running out of it, the economy will eventually collapse. Its just a matter of time. It is nothing like that. No additional game currency is created through GTC trades. Originally by: Ask Ninja Kill all the wolves you're gonna have a crapload of bunnies, and by bunnies I mean stupid people.
Aries Acheron Caldari The Valour	Posted - 2006.11.21 23:13:00 - [55] Originally by: Serpensis The influx of ISK thru GTC, breaks the entire concept of player driven economy. Its like when certain countries starts printing money because they are running out of it, the economy will eventually collapse. Its just a matter of time. ISK from these sales aren't made by CCP. It's what comes out of the purchasing player's pockets. That player is 200 mil poorer, the seller who paid cash is 200 mil richer. The seller then goes to buy a new battleship. If the buyer didn't get the GTC, he would have instead bought the battleship. Basically, the seller is paying for the buyer's next month of game time, in exchange for some ISK. No money's made. This is very different from a farmer, who doesn't really play, but sits in a Covetor mining highsec ores 23/7, and rakes in millions he doesn't intend to actually use to buy anything. In this case, some jerk in another country gets cash. In the case of GTCs, CCP gets another month subscription. ~~~ Action! Suspense! Jita! http://survive-eve.blogspot.com/
Orri Sarikusa	Posted - 2006.11.21 23:40:00 - [56] Originally by: Zolyart It is a fact of (real) life that people who make more money than you will be able to buy more stuff than you. There is nothing you can do to stop it. EVAR!!! The solution is to go out and make money so that you can get that stuff (whether it is nice T.Vs or "virtual" items in games). I'm sorry IF the country you are from does not allow this. The one I live it does. Thats not the arguement people are presenting its the risk vs reward system in EVE. That used to be a guiding principle. I don't despise the ebay farmers they are pulling in money by any source they can, actually embodying the principle you've put forward. They just making money out of the saddos the spend money on thin air. I despise GTC sellers more because they sell just to cheat. It is cheating in the respect its like turning on God mode on an FPS. You're just paying CCP to cheat, its a back hander to the Devs to get ahead. Its allowed, people have to put with it but they don't have to like it. The fact thats it allowed doesn't make the people against respect you or take you seriously. Epeeners infest every game if that gives you an amazing sense of well being then power to you. Tell the girl down the pub how many people you podded with the virtual spaceship you worked overtime for. Tell me if you get laid. If you do I'll stop buying girls drinks and taking them out and buy a Titan instead. 'Come on baby lets go home, I'll show you my Titan' --- How to avoid a ban. The Manuel approach - 'I know nothing I'm from Barcelona'
Moraguth	Posted - 2006.11.22 01:50:00 - [57] Originally by: Miss Overlord look NPCing in 0.0 u can make 2 bil in a week if youre smart lol I'd like to see how you did that. My roomate needed alot of money one time, spent 20 hours chaining belts in some very lucrative parts of Fountain. He made 400M you're idea of making 2bil in a week only applies if you're a kid on summer break or who doesn't do homework/have a social life and plays for an ammount of time that most adults and working people can't compete with. Buying isk isn't exactly fair in my book, but it's kinda like paying your friend to play your character for you (ratting or whatever) except you have 0 risk of being killed by a gank fleet or a wolf pack or whatever. It kills the risk reward system of the game. 0 risk, 100% reward based on how much real life money you can throw at the game. I think CCP has made the best with what they've been given. They can't stamp out farming and isk for cash deals outside of the game, but by setting a standard, at least CCP gets the money (making the game better in the long run) and it doesn't get too rediculous. good game
Cosmar Gallente Unified Refining Federation	Posted - 2006.11.22 01:56:00 - [58] GTC trading is ok because the ISK that is being traded is not farmed by companies. There is nothing wrong with out of game barter between players in principle. It is hurtful when it becomes a buisness that has an interest in making money. But in GTC case no money goes anywhere but in CCP's hands. It is the practices used by the farmer companies to make money on an "industrial" scale (macros, farming operations, etc) that hurt the game. CCP simply provides a way by which both party obtain an ingame thing out of the transaction, while also controling that the party that provides the isk is not part of a comercial farmer company (who are hurt by the deal the most). People have all manner of ways to get isk using out of game things, nothing wrong with that in itself. Maybe your real life buddy has a lot of isk. Maybe someone just quit and gave you all his stuff. Maybe you're a girl in real life and got pics. Who cares. As long as the money was obtained legit in the first place it's not anybody's buisness who it goes to in the end.
Ukucia Gallente The Older Gamers Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.22 02:13:00 - [59] Edited by: Ukucia on 22/11/2006 02:14:59 GTC sales is a mechanism for the time-poor/money-rich and time-rich/money-poor to help each other out. There's a significant number of players with limited playtime. They'd rather use that playtime doing something fun instead of using all their playtime to rat or mine. These same people have plenty of disposable income. There's a significant number of players with nearly limitless playtime. They're on all the time, ratting, mining, missioning, complexing, and still have time to PvP or whatever else they think is fun. Because of all their playtime, they've got GOBS of ISK. However, they don't have huge amounts of RL cash. They'd rather spend that $40 on something else, like food. GTC sales let these two types of players help each other enjoy the game. The money-poor player gets to keep playing 'for free'. The money-rich player gets to keep playing because he's not spending his playtime 'grinding'. Both players are happy, both are playing the game. Now, let's say we ban GTC sales. That time-poor player will still buy ISK. He'll buy it from a macrominer. That macrominer's really hurting gameplay in Empire space. That money-poor player will have to stop playing every so often because he needs that $40 IRL. Also, his trillions of ISK will mean he's really not got anything left to shoot for. There's no reason for him to keep mining/ratting/complexing/etc because he's got no real goals left. There's nothing for him to spend that money on. It is likely that he'll start selling some of those billions on the black market, because he's got nothing else to do with them. So now the two players involved aren't playing the game, or are actively destroying it. Let's get 3rd parties involved: Industrialists: They benefit from GTC sales because people who don't really know what they're doing are buying and losing ships. Without GTC sales, the only people who can afford the pricey ships and equipment would be the ones with the experience to not lose them regularly. Miners: GTC sales greatly reduce the macrominer population. MM's want to make RL cash. GTC sales VASTLY reduce their RL money market. Get rid of ISK sales, and the macrominer population will explode, driving RL miners out of the game. PvPers: They get more people to fight, and really get to thump their chest when a kill a player in a pricey ship instead of a T1 frig. Ratters/Missioners/Complexers: Same benefit as industrialists. People who complain about GTC sales on the boards: They get something to flame about, so that they can start a new thread on this topic every other day. Without GTC sales, they'd find something else 'unfair' to post about. It appears that they don't have the RL funds for the GTC market, and are upset that RL wealth enters their "escape from reality". Alternatively, they seem to use ISK as a measure of their e-peen. Originally by:* Removal Tool This point has been made by myself and other responders so I asked you to re-read the thread. There's really nothing left to say, I just wanted to answer you. The point other people are making is your post is very much incomplete. We can summarize your position so far as "The GTC market is icky". Those in this thread supporting GTC sales are looking for more details. Why is it icky, or unfair or damaging the game? Please remember to actually provide a concrete answer, and not simply re-word "it's icky", as you have so far in this thread. Quote: I AM suprised that some people are wanting this thread censored. Why could that be? Is it that some don't want the truth to be told? You must be new here. Some player creates this thread every other day. Every single time they fail to provide any reason to ban GTC sales other than "it's icky". It is very, very tiresome. Please provide some concrete reasoning, or stop doing this.
Too Kind	Posted - 2006.11.22 03:51:00 - [60] Edited by: Too Kind on 22/11/2006 03:54:33 Originally by: Zolyart It is a fact of (real) life that people who make more money than you will be able to buy more stuff than you. There is nothing you can do to stop it. EVAR!!! The solution is to go out and make money so that you can get that stuff (whether it is nice T.Vs or "virtual" items in games). I'm sorry IF the country you are from does not allow this. The one I live it does. Your country is pointless, EVE is a virtual world and CCP makes the rules. If they say: 'No virtual items for real money. If you do it we ban you !' then there is nothing you can do against it, once your account is banned. Sorry, I'm not completely against gtc trades, but this 'I have money, so I have the right to buy everything I want !' attitude annoys me. Once you accept the EULA your right to do everything you want in EVE, like buying an advantage in form of virtual items, ends. And before that you can't play. -------------------------- Post with your main !!!111

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