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$ to GTC to ISK breaks the game of course

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Removal Tool Flashman Services Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.20 23:36:00 - [1] Hey CCP, exactly how does your allowance of $ to GTC to ISK (in other words buying isk) not break EVE and make any legit in-game isk earning pointless? Can someone explain to me how this is notcorruption? It's no different than a rich RL Corporation bribing a government, right? Thus removing competition? I dare CCP to give an answer that explains this. I say this as a player of 2 years with 2 accounts who wants to continue playing this game. Fight with your heart and balls!
Nate D Naughty Ambitious Temptatious Endeavours	Posted - 2006.11.20 23:41:00 - [2] ... How many posts about this are there a day? Look dude... it's legal... /me uses backspace to keep this post "nice" -NateÖ --- Voice Comms are Coming ...SoonÖ [Click]
Captain GTCMAN	Posted - 2006.11.20 23:44:00 - [3] The OP is such a "tool"....if you'll pardon the pun :D But he speaks of "Corruption" so I supposed we should listen. I mean how corrupt or misaligned from normality is the idiot who gains an ingame advantage because he\she has 14 to 18 hours a day to play Eve while most of the world that has to work for a living cannot pursue such a pathological amount of playtime? Which IRL "advantages" should be ferroted out?
Major Stormer Caldari Red Storm Vendetta	Posted - 2006.11.20 23:48:00 - [4] I dont think its "gamebreaking". I do NOT like it, but Its not creating anymore ISK, just transfering it, unlike farmers and complex farmers etc.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.20 23:51:00 - [5] Originally by: Removal Tool Hey CCP, exactly how does your allowance of $ to GTC to ISK (in other words buying isk) not break EVE and make any legit in-game isk earning pointless? Because if GTCs didn't exist, people would just buy ISK off eBay, which directly funds farmers and macro miners. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Melanu Gallente Shadow Gypsies R i s e	Posted - 2006.11.21 01:08:00 - [6] Yeah I think its smart because it also keeps the price low. At one point someone in my guild posted that dollar for dollar (or pound for pound etc) you could buy more isk through game cards than you could through ebay. That tells me that the program keeps gold farmers down in the game. I am sure if the game card program wasn't there, the price for isk would only rise further and it would become more rampant.
loony thezoon	Posted - 2006.11.21 01:18:00 - [7] Tool
Hellspawn01 Amarr The Phantom Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.11.21 01:51:00 - [8] Someone buys a GTC and sells them for ... well.... nothing. And you complain about that? Ship lovers click here
Trance Gemmini	Posted - 2006.11.21 01:59:00 - [9] Edited by: Trance Gemmini on 21/11/2006 02:00:44 It's no different from buying ISK from another player, which of course IS against the EULA. Shame no one seems to care. Except those of course who profit from ISK selling via GTC, those individuals will fervently defend it and start name calling to any naysayers. Sad really... This game is so very corrupt and it begins with the rule makers.
Rayvonuk	Posted - 2006.11.21 02:29:00 - [10] Quote: It's no different than a rich RL Corporation bribing a government, right? Thus removing competition? its much much different, Where are the similarities ?
Grez Minmatar The Raven Warriors	Posted - 2006.11.21 02:30:00 - [11] Originally by: Trance Gemmini Edited by: Trance Gemmini on 21/11/2006 02:00:44 It's no different from buying ISK from another player, which of course IS against the EULA. Shame no one seems to care. Except those of course who profit from ISK selling via GTC, those individuals will fervently defend it and start name calling to any naysayers. Sad really... This game is so very corrupt and it begins with the rule makers. Except, it's 100% different. All the money goes to CCP directly, not to another player, or some macro'ing farm shop boy. --- Cache Clearer Still waiting for a Wrangler-edit!
Removal Tool Flashman Services Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.21 03:08:00 - [12] IÆll respond in order: Nate: So itÆs legal. It shouldnÆt be. Captain GTCMAN and Major Stormer: In-game time should benefit the player In-game. You put more time in, you should get a greater reward. In fact a player that ôkeeps upö with someone that puts in more time, by buying isk, undercuts the work put in in-game. Should everything be for sale and nothing achieved by putting in the work that it was intended to represent. ItÆs the same rational that someone using cheats could use against someone who was not. ôWell this guy is better because heÆs played longer and somehow thatÆs not fair, but it IS fair for me to buy my way to equivalency or superiority instead of putting in the work. Dark Shikari: It prevents Macro miners and Ebay auctions? Ebay auctions of any property of CCP can be removed by Ebay, exactly as it is done to sellers of EOM software by the software publishers. Melanu: Keeping isk price low? Lol in no way justifies out of game factors from influencing in-game economics. Hellspawn01: My position is that translating money to GTC to isk takes away from the purity of the game completely. Rayvonuk: The similarity lies in being able to influence a system, intended to be fair and therefore make sense, by outside factors. i.e. an athlete gaining a performance advantage by taking steroids. And Grez, the fact that CCP is benefiting financially short term by hurting the game long term is hardly comforting. It is a sell-out plain and simple. Fight with your heart and balls!

Eldo Davip Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2006.11.21 03:33:00 - [13] Thread cleaned. Please don't resort to name calling. ___ Email Us (Report a bad post) \| Forum Rules \| Website EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER

Thaylon Sen The Rat Pack	Posted - 2006.11.21 03:43:00 - [14] I totaly disagree with the sale of GTC for ISK... On the other hand, I cant afford to play EVE so I buy 3 of the things evey month so I can continue to play the game I love... go figure. What should happen is that CCP should fix the prices and provide some offical mechanisim with which to control it. Also, I wonder on the significance of this statement. Quote: So is it going to be a perpetual war between secondary markets and game operators like CCP? Can you ever beat them? Magn·s: They are going to lose big soon. We are implementing something that we have been thinking about for a year and a half now. We need the players' support before we can do it, but we know that we'll get it. It's a very different approach from what you have seen before. article
Tammarr	Posted - 2006.11.21 03:46:00 - [15] Now Removal. In any other game I would have agreed with you that gametime means higher end character. What you fail to see here is that eve has one thing that functions very differently. Being? Skilltraining. You can be just as skilled by playing 1 hour a day for 2 years as you can playing 10 hours a day for 2 years. The trouble then comes. The ones with plenty of time get plenty of isk to use as they see fit for funtime, the ones with little time spend 1 hour each day grinding missions, then pvps one day and can be down two weeks work easily. In this they loose funtime on the "global" basis, they might get just as much hours of funtime as a hardcore 10 hours a day player but in rl timescale they wont even get close, now I'am to tired to write more and I know I leave a huge hole in this sentence. I'll try to comeback and tidy them up in the morning =)
Miss Social	Posted - 2006.11.21 04:00:00 - [16] Originally by: Removal Tool IÆll respond in order: Dark Shikari: It prevents Macro miners and Ebay auctions? Ebay auctions of any property of CCP can be removed by Ebay, exactly as it is done to sellers of EOM software by the software publishers. You know people buy any number of in game currency from plenty of sites that cannot be policed as nicely as Ebay... Quote: Melanu: Keeping isk price low? Lol in no way justifies out of game factors from influencing in-game economics. Yes actually Melanu is correct. If selling isk for real life money was more profitable for the isk sellers we would see more of them and that means they would have a greater influence on in-game economics. Quote: Hellspawn01: My position is that translating money to GTC to isk takes away from the purity of the game completely. Well great. Personally every crash, laggy fleet battle, bug and soul-less randomly generated mission description does more harm than numbers going up or down. Quote: Rayvonuk: The similarity lies in being able to influence a system, intended to be fair and therefore make sense, by outside factors. i.e. an athlete gaining a performance advantage by taking steroids. Eve? Fair? Make Sense? snort Have you seen the T2 BPO monopolies? Rigged Aurora events? GM Corruption? Or ever paid attention to the fact that Eve (much like life) is never fair. Please. Quote: And Grez, the fact that CCP is benefiting financially short term by hurting the game long term is hardly comforting. It is a sell-out plain and simple. Yeah best leave the real life money to isk banking in the hands of the isk farmers. I am sure it would be less destructive as a black market element to your pure game. On a personal note I wouldn't play Eve if I couldn't sell a timecard here and there. Why? Because I can't be asked to mine/trade/rat for six hours to get my next big battleship blown up. What is your response to me? "Good, you don't deserve to play Eve?" Perhaps? Go soak your head.
Sarpadeon Freedom Guard Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.21 04:02:00 - [17] search eve/ISK on ebay, ccp CAN NOT stop them from using ebay as it violates no laws, ccp can only ban accounts found to be doing it. i actualy like the idea of being able to buy a month or 2 of game time with ISK, if you can make 140+m isk a month you could basicaly play for free as long as you where able to make enufgh per month to get another GTC. it also allows CCP to set the max profit someone could possibly make by Ebaying isk, as its a much better dollar/SIK conversion ratio with GTCs, therefore minimizing the ebay sellers/farmers as much as possible(because they cant stop them all) also for those that dont have 10 hours a day to play, and dont have a moneyprinter t2 BPO this gives them a possible way to be able to afford stuff in a reasonable timeframe. i know i would be **** frusterated if i had 7 or so hrs of game time a week, and had tons of skillpoints, but couldnt afford to BUY/afford to lose any of the things i had skills for without 2 months of pure farming every ingame moment(ie T2 guns + BS, HACs ect) note these are my views on GTCs, they do not represent my corp or alliances views
Removal Tool Flashman Services Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.21 04:56:00 - [18] Miss Social, I never suggested that you didn't deserve to play EVE. Can I skip soaking my head? But what about the EVE player that works, had family, etc. and would rather not spend his income to play the game beyond the monthly fee? Does EVE become that expensive? Because that's how it is for most EVE players. Average age 27. MMORPGs take time. The average player spends 17 hours per week. Getting around that fact is the justification for cash for isk. Now it becomes a completely different game, not as advertised destroying the investment in time that so many have made. http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b157/blacklabelsar/BoSSiggyFinal.jpg Signature dimensions exceeds max 400x120 dimensions allowed. Mail us if you have any questions -Eldo Fight with your heart and balls!
Miss Overlord Gallente Ferrum Pugnus	Posted - 2006.11.21 05:01:00 - [19] look NPCing in 0.0 u can make 2 bil in a week if youre smart lol as far as GTCs they are a revenue source for CCP - 250m for a 30 day card is about normal its not really that much ISK tbh. It doesnt break the game as ISK inflation is stable its all those assets (items and ships) sitting in ppls hangers that are inflationary but they arent counted unless they are sold traded etc for ISK I would prefer to see CCP get a cut of the proceeds ( legally brought GTCs that contribute revenues for them to develop the game) rather than loose thousands in lost revenue to ebay scum Its the lesser of 2 evils and i would prefer to see it stay
Coasterbrian Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.21 05:52:00 - [20] You are whine thread number 496502612 about this topic. What makes you think that yours is going to elicit a response any different from the 496502611 that came before it? ---------- I say what I mean, but I don't always mean what I say.
Miss Social	Posted - 2006.11.21 05:59:00 - [21] Originally by: Removal Tool Miss Social, I never suggested that you didn't deserve to play EVE. Can I skip soaking my head? But what about the EVE player that works, had family, etc. and would rather not spend his income to play the game beyond the monthly fee? Does EVE become that expensive? If you get into T2 stuff eve is that expensive. My problem is I have a habit of losing ships when I really shouldn't. Lets see, my main has 30+ BS losses. Of those 30 I am sure 25 were very preventable. So my suggestion to you is don't be like me, play smart and your isk should go quite far. (Unless you want T2 ships/gear then well...) I spend about 5 hours a week playing and about one of those five hours is devoted to easy money making (IE not a huge return). The other 4 hours I am losing isk left and right. Now maybe if I became very serious about Eve and did spend 17 hours a week playing I wouldn't buy timecards but since they are an option it is the way I play the game. I know I would have quit ages ago when losing battleship #4 meant four more hours of mining. Instead I purchased a time card and kept playing.
Orri Sarikusa	Posted - 2006.11.21 07:26:00 - [22] Still circumvents the principle of risk verse reward. Most people whine about risk verse reward. Delete the other posts about risk verse reward and then you can delete GTC posts. --- How to avoid a ban. The Manuel approach - 'I know nothing I'm from Barcelona'
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2006.11.21 07:28:00 - [23] While I don't like the $ => GTC => ISK cheating, the T2 BPO lottery is much worse, since it basically gave a bunch of people a free income of $6000+ per year (don't you think that some of the 50B ISK/year BPO holders are selling ISK?).
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.21 07:47:00 - [24] Originally by: Tammarr Now Removal. In any other game I would have agreed with you that gametime means higher end character. What you fail to see here is that eve has one thing that functions very differently. Being? Skilltraining. You can be just as skilled by playing 1 hour a day for 2 years as you can playing 10 hours a day for 2 years. The trouble then comes. The ones with plenty of time get plenty of isk to use as they see fit for funtime, the ones with little time spend 1 hour each day grinding missions, then pvps one day and can be down two weeks work easily. In this they loose funtime on the "global" basis, they might get just as much hours of funtime as a hardcore 10 hours a day player but in rl timescale they wont even get close, now I'am to tired to write more and I know I leave a huge hole in this sentence. I'll try to comeback and tidy them up in the morning =) this is only one aspect - another aspect are alliances ... lets imagine the following situation. alliance A and alliance B are fighting for a 0.0 system. alliance A is denying the terretory to alliance B - B can't hunt, can't mine, can't travel without the risk beeing shot down after a few minutes. it's hard to earn money for them in their 0.0 system. maybe alliance A also has an empire war against alliance B ... so not even the missionrunner in empire are safe. alliance A denies alliance B access to funds - that's imho how wars should be won. either one side gives up ... or it ends in a war of attrition, where the sides win that can manage it ressources through better. the moment someone from alliance B starts buying ISK for GTCs the balance disappears. why? suddenly alliance B has no need to npc and mine to fund the fleet and POSes. while alliance A still has to do so - and you can trust me - wars cost lots of isk .. even if you're on the winning side. so the chance is high that alliance A loses this war because they can't keep up the funding like alliance B does, because they don't resort to out-of-game means to fund this war. winning the war doesn't mean not to have losses - it only means to survive at a certain location. you can see it like a 1v1 of two ships - while alliance B "blows up", alliance A ends up in structure. but when alliance B gets the "buff through ISK for GTC" it's likely the other way round. ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Orri Sarikusa	Posted - 2006.11.21 08:51:00 - [25] The good side of course some people can play because of it. However, I think these are in the minority. I've noticed some moans that the ISK price is now too high and now they have to use cash. But the alliance situation highlighted above is a game breaker. So a compromise is needed. How about only a certain amount of GTCs are allowed to be sold for ISK? Enough to satisfy demand for those that really cannot pay by cash. To do this you would need to register sellers and buyers which I think would carry other benefits. --- How to avoid a ban. The Manuel approach - 'I know nothing I'm from Barcelona'
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.21 11:17:00 - [26] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 21/11/2006 11:17:31 Originally by: Removal Tool Dark Shikari: It prevents Macro miners and Ebay auctions? Ebay auctions of any property of CCP can be removed by Ebay, exactly as it is done to sellers of EOM software by the software publishers. This is a myth. eBay has refused in the past, and will refuse in the future. EULAs are not legally enforceable, and CCP knows this. If CCP could wave a magic wand and have all the farmers go away, they'd do it. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
General Apocalypse Amarr The Merchant Marines Miners With Attitude	Posted - 2006.11.21 11:21:00 - [27] Edited by: General Apocalypse on 21/11/2006 11:22:41 Originally by: Removal Tool Hey CCP, exactly how does your allowance of $ to GTC to ISK (in other words buying isk) not break EVE and make any legit in-game isk earning pointless? Can someone explain to me how this is notcorruption? It's no different than a rich RL Corporation bribing a government, right? Thus removing competition? I dare CCP to give an answer that explains this. I say this as a player of 2 years with 2 accounts who wants to continue playing this game. Think that this is the ONLY way for poor ppl to play EVE ----------------------- Amarr Invictus
jeNK Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.21 11:42:00 - [28] For those who cannot see how GTC trades are 'breaking' the game, here are two scenarios: 1.) Snazzy ship or mod for sale. Player 'x' is desperate to get it. Instead of mining/ratting/mission running like an addict looking for a fix, they simply purchase a few GTC's, trade them for ISK, then buy the ship/module. Next time that module comes up, because it sold so quickly, the price will be higher. 2.) You're at war with someone. The idea is to blow their stuff up quicker than they can replenish it, right? So you strike their production, kill their barges, nuke their haulers, kapow their ratting ships.. but wait.. how is it possible they are still undocking in those t2 ships? Oh, I see, they trade GTC's.. The reason they are legal, and this is paraphrased from the horses mouth (dev's) is that GTC trades are a loophole in the existing rules, but why CCP won't simply change the rules is just.. ?!
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.21 11:47:00 - [29] Originally by: jeNK 1.) Snazzy ship or mod for sale. Player 'x' is desperate to get it. Instead of mining/ratting/mission running like an addict looking for a fix, they simply purchase a few GTC's, trade them for ISK, then buy the ship/module. Next time that module comes up, because it sold so quickly, the price will be higher. This doesn't really apply... because they bought the GTCs were sold to another player, who paid their ISK for it, and thus won't be competing for that faction mod. It cancels out. Originally by: jeNK 2.) You're at war with someone. The idea is to blow their stuff up quicker than they can replenish it, right? So you strike their production, kill their barges, nuke their haulers, kapow their ratting ships.. but wait.. how is it possible they are still undocking in those t2 ships? Oh, I see, they trade GTC's.. There are about 500 other, more effective loopholes to replace ships, often known as "industry alts." GTCs cause problems and can create situations that are "unfair", but nothing as serious as you've described. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
EVE Teamspeak	Posted - 2006.11.21 11:59:00 - [30] Edited by: EVE Teamspeak on 21/11/2006 12:00:44 Originally by: Removal Tool Hey CCP, exactly how does your allowance of $ to GTC to ISK (in other words buying isk) not break EVE and make any legit in-game isk earning pointless? Can someone explain to me how this is notcorruption? Are you playing EVE Online and enjoying it? To quote Archie Bunker, "Then Shaddad up already meathead" Just play the game and have fun.
Removal Tool Flashman Services Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.21 13:41:00 - [31] That's your response? Shut up and play the game? Maybe because the strategy factor of the game, the reason we create support accounts, do research, compete economically, etc. has been rendered pointless. What's left is skill in a given ship which is still cool but then why have any currency at all if that's is all that is left in EVE? Resources in EVE is THE key element in the game. It determines the actual level of risk taken. Now that is gone. Gone like the integrity of the average person. WHere winning is everything and how you play the game means nothing. I think EVE was designed to match wits not wallets. And to those that say life and EVE are unfair, so play ball...that's such a cop out. Life is unfair as we cannot control if we are born to rich parents or poor parents etc. But the phrase of life (and EVE, or anything else) not being fair has been the excuse for people not to be fair, or behave with any integrity. Would Chess be the classic test of wits if a player could buy extra Queens? http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b157/blacklabelsar/BoSSiggyFinal.jpg Signature dimensions exceeds max 400x120 dimensions allowed. Mail us if you have any questions -Eldo Fight with your heart and balls!
Flyyn Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.11.21 13:50:00 - [32] I am going to respond like I always do...So when I purchase all I need to destroy your corp, by useing funds I get by 'tradeing' isk for GTC. Thats ok? GTC trades for isk is wrong...I know people who do it. But cause CCP gets their cut, its ok. So when I get my dread, mothership, and titan. Useing this rather large settlement I just got from workmans comp. And come in and just total out your corp. Well its ok, cause CCP got their cut out of the deal. LOL Yeah why play the game at all then? CCP ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!! Lets stop the I-Win-buttons. Release tech II BPO's to the npc market, end this silly lottery. Stop allowing GTC for isk trades. Your makeing the game unplayable to some people, and giving I-win-buttons to others just cause they have alot of cash in real life!! This is as bad as it can get, but don't bet on it.
Lucy Moo	Posted - 2006.11.21 14:19:00 - [33] Edited by: Lucy Moo on 21/11/2006 14:26:16 Originally by: Major Stormer I dont think its "gamebreaking". I do NOT like it, but Its not creating anymore ISK, just transfering it, unlike farmers and complex farmers etc. Where do you think the people who are buying the GTC's with isk got their isk from? Thats right, they farmed it, from npcs, complexes, mining and the such. Not that i'm defending isk sellers, i depise them just as much as i despise this whole GTC for isk thing, but it is true that when someone buys a GTC with isk, they are transfering isk that they farmed, this is exactly what isk sellers are doing, they are transfering isk which they have farmed, or did you think they make it appear with a magic isk button?
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2006.11.21 14:19:00 - [34] Originally by: Removal Tool Hey CCP, exactly how does your allowance of $ to GTC to ISK (in other words buying isk) not break EVE and make any legit in-game isk earning pointless? Can someone explain to me how this is notcorruption? It's no different than a rich RL Corporation bribing a government, right? Thus removing competition? I dare CCP to give an answer that explains this. Instead of demanding that others provide evidence and reasoning to disprove your assertions, how about you state the basis for the title of your thread? Rhetoric ftl tbtfh. Originally by: Ask Ninja Kill all the wolves you're gonna have a crapload of bunnies, and by bunnies I mean stupid people.
Zolyart	Posted - 2006.11.21 15:45:00 - [35] Originally by: Removal Tool Hey CCP, exactly how does your allowance of $ to GTC to ISK (in other words buying isk) not break EVE and make any legit in-game isk earning pointless? Can someone explain to me how this is notcorruption? It's no different than a rich RL Corporation bribing a government, right? Thus removing competition? I dare CCP to give an answer that explains this. I say this as a player of 2 years with 2 accounts who wants to continue playing this game. It is a fact of (real) life that people who make more money than you will be able to buy more stuff than you. There is nothing you can do to stop it. EVAR!!! The solution is to go out and make money so that you can get that stuff (whether it is nice T.Vs or "virtual" items in games). I'm sorry IF the country you are from does not allow this. The one I live it does.
Zooish	Posted - 2006.11.21 15:49:00 - [36] Bored ............ CCP sort out the forums, its getting pathetic.
Ravenal The Fated	Posted - 2006.11.21 15:53:00 - [37] Originally by: Removal Tool It's no different than a rich RL Corporation bribing a government, right? Thus removing competition? I dare CCP to give an answer that explains this. I say this as a player of 2 years with 2 accounts who wants to continue playing this game. the point of this game (any game for that matter) is having fun. Having bundles of isk does somewhat give you an opportunity someone who hasnt got bundles will not have. Boiled down to pvp - everybody should be able to afford a simple frigate with basic equipment and be able to do some fun blowing up of things. all in all, isk != fun, only more "options" .
ceaon Gallente Porandor	Posted - 2006.11.21 15:55:00 - [38] IMO the best about GTC is that even are changed to get ISK in game from RL CCP control the number on GTC selled stuff like that keep BIG farmer away from eve my sig
Removal Tool Flashman Services Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.21 16:00:00 - [39] Lucy: regardless of the fact that the isk is earned by the seller, buying isk is still a cheat. Tommy: Did you read the thread? Which part do you not understand. Please re-read. Zolyart: Cash for Isk is a cheat. Nothing will change that. Zooish: Why did you even post? You added nothing except that you want this post censored. Revenal: Eve is about more than flying ships. Did any of you read and understand the posts in this thread? http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b157/blacklabelsar/BoSSiggyFinal.jpg Signature dimensions exceeds max 400x120 dimensions allowed. Mail us if you have any questions -Eldo Fight with your heart and balls!
Zolyart	Posted - 2006.11.21 16:03:00 - [40] Originally by: Removal Tool Zolyart: Cash for Isk is a cheat. Nothing will change that. Anything that CCP allows, by definition, is not a cheat.
Na'Thuul Caldari Blood Inquisition Sani Khal'Vecna	Posted - 2006.11.21 16:04:00 - [41] Originally by: Miss Social Originally by: Removal Tool Miss Social, I never suggested that you didn't deserve to play EVE. Can I skip soaking my head? But what about the EVE player that works, had family, etc. and would rather not spend his income to play the game beyond the monthly fee? Does EVE become that expensive? If you get into T2 stuff eve is that expensive. My problem is I have a habit of losing ships when I really shouldn't. Lets see, my main has 30+ BS losses. Of those 30 I am sure 25 were very preventable. So my suggestion to you is don't be like me, play smart and your isk should go quite far. (Unless you want T2 ships/gear then well...) I spend about 5 hours a week playing and about one of those five hours is devoted to easy money making (IE not a huge return). The other 4 hours I am losing isk left and right. Now maybe if I became very serious about Eve and did spend 17 hours a week playing I wouldn't buy timecards but since they are an option it is the way I play the game. I know I would have quit ages ago when losing battleship #4 meant four more hours of mining. Instead I purchased a time card and kept playing. Thanks. You just proved that ISK != Winbutton Who cares if people buy ISK for cash with GTCs, only means more people using ships they shouldn't be in and thus more nice loot to pry from their cold dead fingers --- [08:41:12] Nebulai > unless your offering me cheap pills, I don't see it
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2006.11.21 16:25:00 - [42] Edited by: Shameless Avenger on 21/11/2006 16:27:13 OK, now this discution is just pointless...really, do the math for yourself. The guys are talking about buying T2 fitted Battleships with RL money... here's how to do the math: 1) Calculate the current price (ISK) of a T2 Fitted BS 2) Investigate the current exchange rate for ISK<->GTC 3) Investigate the RL cost of the GTC 4) Calculate how much RL money u need for the T2 Fitted BS 5) Backtrace the thread, verify how frecuently the T2 Fitted BS needs to be replaced (due to pawnage). 6) Calculate the Montly RL money income needed to cope with the Ship losses. When finish, please post here how many hundreds (or maybe thousands) of dollars a month you need to acomplish what this thread is whining about. Seriously, I'm curious edit: I didn't spell check, I'm veyng lazy todai
Removal Tool Flashman Services Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.21 19:49:00 - [43] Zolyart you are correct that cash for isk is now condoned and encouraged by CCP. IÆve stated that this is my issue. Since it is condoned by CCP makes it not a cheat in the eyes of CCP. ThatÆs where the corruption lies. If tomorrow the police said that it is ok to punch a little kid in the head and steal his candy, would that make it less wrong to do that? Not in the least. And if the Police somehow benefited from this each time it happened, would that not be corruption? Of course it would. Now thatÆs a silly analogy but I think that the point is made. NaÆThuul, thank you for seeing that facts as you do. Now if it just came down to noobs flying and losing expensive ships that would be fine. But what about previous responders pointing out that in a war of attrition, cash for isk could determine the outcome of said war? That right there is the key issue. And Shameless, I raise a valid point. Why characterize it as a whine? I think the true whine is ôI donÆt put in enough time to really play the game and itÆs not fair so IÆll buy isk for cashö. Again IÆll state that I work full-time and put in an average amount of game time. I also rat to support my PvP. Now if CCP reversed their decision, stopped allowing isk for sale, and took all possible measures to prevent isk sales of any kind, then I would happily spend lots of game-time hunting Macro-miners. http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b157/blacklabelsar/BoSSiggyFinal.jpg Signature dimensions exceeds max 400x120 dimensions allowed. Mail us if you have any questions -Eldo Fight with your heart and balls!
Wilfan Ret'nub Singularity.	Posted - 2006.11.21 20:08:00 - [44] What's next, a whine about people with multiple accounts and how it's not fair they get double and more SPs to play with and always-on gang members? Followed by a whine about people with top of the line graphic card(s) and multiple displays who have unfair advantage of less lag and can absorb information easier? Money gives you an advantage in real life. Same happens in MMORPGs, especially those that try to mimic the cold, brutal aspects of it. ------ No ISK, no fun
Aries Acheron Caldari The Valour	Posted - 2006.11.21 20:29:00 - [45] Macro Miners are going to exist if you have GTC or not. It's probably a good thing to screw with them as much as possible, since they mindlessly generate large amounts of cash, for sale with out of game dollars. How does a GTC differ from this? GTC are legitimate, and more trustworthy with CCP's oversight. Thus, people are less likely to get scammed. It also combats inflation, since human beings are making the ISK to buy them, not an army of asian super-farmers, or scripts. Money just gets transferred. No new money is created. Inflation is fought. Everyone wins. CCP gets 15 bucks a month to keep this great game running, GTC seller gets a load of ISK, GTC buyer gets gametime for no RL money, Soul-less Farmer gets less ill-gotten gains. ~~~ Action! Suspense! Jita! http://survive-eve.blogspot.com/
Merciless1 Arcana Imperii Ltd. Sani Khal'Vecna	Posted - 2006.11.21 21:08:00 - [46] Removal Tool...Just stop this nonsense, this goes for all you other GTC whiners. For the record i have never bought or a sold a timecard. RMT(Real money trade) will always be a part of any online game. As longe as there are expensive high end items and people willing to grind and sell isk there will always be an RMT market. Yes it sucks, but it cannot be stoped. Think about it, every commercially sucessful MMO has an RMT market, EVERY ONE, as long as there is a demand for that service there will be sombody looking to cash in. GTC selling has reduced the price of 3rd party isk sales, taken money out of the macro bussiness, and supplied CCP with added revanue that they can devote to game devolopment. What it boils down to is you have one or the other, to my knowledge no other MMO company has been able to eliminate the RMT for any of thier games. So we have the lesser of two evils. To think CCP can single handedly eliminale the RMT when all others have failed is foolish Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Question: If I log in and out 29 times in a row and I still lose my ship can I petition?
Removal Tool Flashman Services Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.21 21:35:00 - [47] Months back PCGAMER Mag stopped running ads for sites Farmer sites for the good of gaming, even though it meant less revenue for the mag. They wrote a big editorial about it. So if that's where it lies, that in-game currency will always be available for cash, and it is made known by all considering playing a MMORPG, I would venture that less gamers will choose to play a MMORPG. I guess integrity has gone out of style and we all lower ourselves to the lowest common denominator since the next guy will too. A sad state of affairs indeed. Next everyone will be condoning the logout exploit. http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b157/blacklabelsar/BoSSiggyFinal.jpg Signature dimensions exceeds max 400x120 dimensions allowed. Mail us if you have any questions -Eldo Fight with your heart and balls!
Kaden Seer Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.21 22:07:00 - [48] Originally by: Zooish Bored ............ CCP sort out the forums, its getting pathetic. I agree, who gives a frog?
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2006.11.21 22:07:00 - [49] Edited by: Tommy TenKreds on 21/11/2006 22:08:40 Originally by: Removal Tool Tommy: Did you read the thread? Which part do you not understand. Please re-read. Merely responding does not make you astute. Your first post offers absolutely no evidence for the claims you make. Nor do any of your subsequent ones, but it is enough that you do not understand how to position a debate correctly, nor justify your assertions. Provide some evidence of the negative effects of GTC for ISK trades or I will continue to have nothing but contempt for your claims. Incidentally, no-one is required to show evidence to the contrary until you can provide something to support your claims, since they are baseless and empty. Originally by: Ask Ninja Kill all the wolves you're gonna have a crapload of bunnies, and by bunnies I mean stupid people.
Removal Tool Flashman Services Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.21 22:30:00 - [50] Ok Tommy, I am suggesting that one player being able to buy isk with cash, while another earns their isk through game mechanics, is not be equitable. This point has been made by myself and other responders so I asked you to re-read the thread. There's really nothing left to say, I just wanted to answer you. I AM suprised that some people are wanting this thread censored. Why could that be? Is it that some don't want the truth to be told? http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b157/blacklabelsar/BoSSiggyFinal.jpg Signature dimensions exceeds max 400x120 dimensions allowed. Mail us if you have any questions -Eldo Fight with your heart and balls!
Melianna	Posted - 2006.11.21 22:40:00 - [51] Edited by: Melianna on 21/11/2006 22:43:55 The difference between eBay isk-sellers (and other sites that do it) is that with GTC-for-ISK, nobody is making a real-money cash profit on it except CCP. Nobody is pulling dollars out of the system by selling virtual goods. The only thing they're doing is getting more play time. That defrays expenses, which is not the same thing as profiting. Edit: And in most cases, the money that CCP makes is money that they'd be making anyway... if there were no GTC-for-ISK, the cash spent on time-cards by people looking to trade it for ISK would, instead, be spent by those players who have been selling their ISK for time. It balances.
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2006.11.21 22:45:00 - [52] Originally by: Removal Tool Ok Tommy, I am suggesting that one player being able to buy isk with cash, while another earns their isk through game mechanics, is not be equitable. This point has been made by myself and other responders so I asked you to re-read the thread. There's really nothing left to say, I just wanted to answer you. It is not equitable, I agree. But you cannot prevent people from gaining game advantages with their real money. Moreover, it remains a better solution than other forms of RMT, at least as far as CCP's revenues and protection of their customers are concerned. Originally by: Removal Tool I AM suprised that some people are wanting this thread censored. Why could that be? Is it that some don't want the truth to be told? I expect that most people grow increasingly frustrated with the readiness of people like yourself to grab a soapbox and put forward the same arguments incessantly. What is worse, you use rhetoric (which is a dangerous tool) rather than facts to further the debate. There is always the danger that people will be taken in by it and CCP will bow to the pressure of the subsequent majority. I believe this would be detrimental to Eve and CCP. It would most certainly be detrimental to me. Originally by: Ask Ninja Kill all the wolves you're gonna have a crapload of bunnies, and by bunnies I mean stupid people.
Serpensis Gallente UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.21 22:55:00 - [53] The influx of ISK thru GTC, breaks the entire concept of player driven economy. Its like when certain countries starts printing money because they are running out of it, the economy will eventually collapse. Its just a matter of time. -- "Fear accompanies the possibility of death, calm sheperds its certainty."
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2006.11.21 22:58:00 - [54] Originally by: Serpensis The influx of ISK thru GTC, breaks the entire concept of player driven economy. Please provide some justification for this statement or it is meaningless. Originally by: Serpensis Its like when certain countries starts printing money because they are running out of it, the economy will eventually collapse. Its just a matter of time. It is nothing like that. No additional game currency is created through GTC trades. Originally by: Ask Ninja Kill all the wolves you're gonna have a crapload of bunnies, and by bunnies I mean stupid people.
Aries Acheron Caldari The Valour	Posted - 2006.11.21 23:13:00 - [55] Originally by: Serpensis The influx of ISK thru GTC, breaks the entire concept of player driven economy. Its like when certain countries starts printing money because they are running out of it, the economy will eventually collapse. Its just a matter of time. ISK from these sales aren't made by CCP. It's what comes out of the purchasing player's pockets. That player is 200 mil poorer, the seller who paid cash is 200 mil richer. The seller then goes to buy a new battleship. If the buyer didn't get the GTC, he would have instead bought the battleship. Basically, the seller is paying for the buyer's next month of game time, in exchange for some ISK. No money's made. This is very different from a farmer, who doesn't really play, but sits in a Covetor mining highsec ores 23/7, and rakes in millions he doesn't intend to actually use to buy anything. In this case, some jerk in another country gets cash. In the case of GTCs, CCP gets another month subscription. ~~~ Action! Suspense! Jita! http://survive-eve.blogspot.com/
Orri Sarikusa	Posted - 2006.11.21 23:40:00 - [56] Originally by: Zolyart It is a fact of (real) life that people who make more money than you will be able to buy more stuff than you. There is nothing you can do to stop it. EVAR!!! The solution is to go out and make money so that you can get that stuff (whether it is nice T.Vs or "virtual" items in games). I'm sorry IF the country you are from does not allow this. The one I live it does. Thats not the arguement people are presenting its the risk vs reward system in EVE. That used to be a guiding principle. I don't despise the ebay farmers they are pulling in money by any source they can, actually embodying the principle you've put forward. They just making money out of the saddos the spend money on thin air. I despise GTC sellers more because they sell just to cheat. It is cheating in the respect its like turning on God mode on an FPS. You're just paying CCP to cheat, its a back hander to the Devs to get ahead. Its allowed, people have to put with it but they don't have to like it. The fact thats it allowed doesn't make the people against respect you or take you seriously. Epeeners infest every game if that gives you an amazing sense of well being then power to you. Tell the girl down the pub how many people you podded with the virtual spaceship you worked overtime for. Tell me if you get laid. If you do I'll stop buying girls drinks and taking them out and buy a Titan instead. 'Come on baby lets go home, I'll show you my Titan' --- How to avoid a ban. The Manuel approach - 'I know nothing I'm from Barcelona'
Moraguth	Posted - 2006.11.22 01:50:00 - [57] Originally by: Miss Overlord look NPCing in 0.0 u can make 2 bil in a week if youre smart lol I'd like to see how you did that. My roomate needed alot of money one time, spent 20 hours chaining belts in some very lucrative parts of Fountain. He made 400M you're idea of making 2bil in a week only applies if you're a kid on summer break or who doesn't do homework/have a social life and plays for an ammount of time that most adults and working people can't compete with. Buying isk isn't exactly fair in my book, but it's kinda like paying your friend to play your character for you (ratting or whatever) except you have 0 risk of being killed by a gank fleet or a wolf pack or whatever. It kills the risk reward system of the game. 0 risk, 100% reward based on how much real life money you can throw at the game. I think CCP has made the best with what they've been given. They can't stamp out farming and isk for cash deals outside of the game, but by setting a standard, at least CCP gets the money (making the game better in the long run) and it doesn't get too rediculous. good game
Cosmar Gallente Unified Refining Federation	Posted - 2006.11.22 01:56:00 - [58] GTC trading is ok because the ISK that is being traded is not farmed by companies. There is nothing wrong with out of game barter between players in principle. It is hurtful when it becomes a buisness that has an interest in making money. But in GTC case no money goes anywhere but in CCP's hands. It is the practices used by the farmer companies to make money on an "industrial" scale (macros, farming operations, etc) that hurt the game. CCP simply provides a way by which both party obtain an ingame thing out of the transaction, while also controling that the party that provides the isk is not part of a comercial farmer company (who are hurt by the deal the most). People have all manner of ways to get isk using out of game things, nothing wrong with that in itself. Maybe your real life buddy has a lot of isk. Maybe someone just quit and gave you all his stuff. Maybe you're a girl in real life and got pics. Who cares. As long as the money was obtained legit in the first place it's not anybody's buisness who it goes to in the end.
Ukucia Gallente The Older Gamers Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.22 02:13:00 - [59] Edited by: Ukucia on 22/11/2006 02:14:59 GTC sales is a mechanism for the time-poor/money-rich and time-rich/money-poor to help each other out. There's a significant number of players with limited playtime. They'd rather use that playtime doing something fun instead of using all their playtime to rat or mine. These same people have plenty of disposable income. There's a significant number of players with nearly limitless playtime. They're on all the time, ratting, mining, missioning, complexing, and still have time to PvP or whatever else they think is fun. Because of all their playtime, they've got GOBS of ISK. However, they don't have huge amounts of RL cash. They'd rather spend that $40 on something else, like food. GTC sales let these two types of players help each other enjoy the game. The money-poor player gets to keep playing 'for free'. The money-rich player gets to keep playing because he's not spending his playtime 'grinding'. Both players are happy, both are playing the game. Now, let's say we ban GTC sales. That time-poor player will still buy ISK. He'll buy it from a macrominer. That macrominer's really hurting gameplay in Empire space. That money-poor player will have to stop playing every so often because he needs that $40 IRL. Also, his trillions of ISK will mean he's really not got anything left to shoot for. There's no reason for him to keep mining/ratting/complexing/etc because he's got no real goals left. There's nothing for him to spend that money on. It is likely that he'll start selling some of those billions on the black market, because he's got nothing else to do with them. So now the two players involved aren't playing the game, or are actively destroying it. Let's get 3rd parties involved: Industrialists: They benefit from GTC sales because people who don't really know what they're doing are buying and losing ships. Without GTC sales, the only people who can afford the pricey ships and equipment would be the ones with the experience to not lose them regularly. Miners: GTC sales greatly reduce the macrominer population. MM's want to make RL cash. GTC sales VASTLY reduce their RL money market. Get rid of ISK sales, and the macrominer population will explode, driving RL miners out of the game. PvPers: They get more people to fight, and really get to thump their chest when a kill a player in a pricey ship instead of a T1 frig. Ratters/Missioners/Complexers: Same benefit as industrialists. People who complain about GTC sales on the boards: They get something to flame about, so that they can start a new thread on this topic every other day. Without GTC sales, they'd find something else 'unfair' to post about. It appears that they don't have the RL funds for the GTC market, and are upset that RL wealth enters their "escape from reality". Alternatively, they seem to use ISK as a measure of their e-peen. Originally by:* Removal Tool This point has been made by myself and other responders so I asked you to re-read the thread. There's really nothing left to say, I just wanted to answer you. The point other people are making is your post is very much incomplete. We can summarize your position so far as "The GTC market is icky". Those in this thread supporting GTC sales are looking for more details. Why is it icky, or unfair or damaging the game? Please remember to actually provide a concrete answer, and not simply re-word "it's icky", as you have so far in this thread. Quote: I AM suprised that some people are wanting this thread censored. Why could that be? Is it that some don't want the truth to be told? You must be new here. Some player creates this thread every other day. Every single time they fail to provide any reason to ban GTC sales other than "it's icky". It is very, very tiresome. Please provide some concrete reasoning, or stop doing this.
Too Kind	Posted - 2006.11.22 03:51:00 - [60] Edited by: Too Kind on 22/11/2006 03:54:33 Originally by: Zolyart It is a fact of (real) life that people who make more money than you will be able to buy more stuff than you. There is nothing you can do to stop it. EVAR!!! The solution is to go out and make money so that you can get that stuff (whether it is nice T.Vs or "virtual" items in games). I'm sorry IF the country you are from does not allow this. The one I live it does. Your country is pointless, EVE is a virtual world and CCP makes the rules. If they say: 'No virtual items for real money. If you do it we ban you !' then there is nothing you can do against it, once your account is banned. Sorry, I'm not completely against gtc trades, but this 'I have money, so I have the right to buy everything I want !' attitude annoys me. Once you accept the EULA your right to do everything you want in EVE, like buying an advantage in form of virtual items, ends. And before that you can't play. -------------------------- Post with your main !!!111
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2006.11.22 05:08:00 - [61] Originally by: Removal Tool And Shameless, I raise a valid point. Why characterize it as a whine? First, if I ofended, I offer my apologies. Now, it's easy read a post and reply to what can be debated, totaly ignoring everything else. A poorly T2 fitted battleship is about 500M. If you loose it let's say, weekly, that's 2B a month. I don't know the current GTC<->ISK exchange, but Isk selling sites advertice everywhere @ aprox $15 (dollars) per 100M. At that rate, 2B will be $300. I don't think many people would expend $300 dollars a month to play EVE. And it's been said you get more ISk with the gtc<->isk thing, but a decent T2 BS setup will be more than 500M (a lot more if using implants or faction ships and officer modules) so it kind of cancels out. Yes, I agree, it's cheating. Fact, It's a very expensive way to cheat. No, I don't believe people would expend that kind of money to play EVE. Note: I'm not spell cheking todai cuz I'm veyng lazi
Derelyk	Posted - 2006.11.22 05:54:00 - [62] Originally by: Removal Tool Resources in EVE is THE key element in the game. It determines the actual level of risk taken. Now that is gone. Are you even playing the same game I'm playing? I experience risk EVERY time I leave the station. Hell, I'm now in charge of sales for my corp, so I reckon there's more risk when I'm docked & conducting corp sales then when I'm flying around. Don't tell me there's no risk, there's risk.
Merciless1 Arcana Imperii Ltd. Sani Khal'Vecna	Posted - 2006.11.22 06:52:00 - [63] Edited by: Merciless1 on 22/11/2006 07:01:45 Originally by: Removal Tool Months back PCGAMER Mag stopped running ads for Farmer sites for the good of gaming, even though it meant less revenue for the mag. They wrote a big editorial about it.So if that's where it lies, that in-game currency will always be available for cash, and it is made known by all considering playing a MMORPG, I would venture that less gamers will choose to play a MMORPG. I guess integrity has gone out of style and we all lower ourselves to the lowest common denominator since the next guy will too. A sad state of affairs indeed. Next everyone will be condoning the logout exploit. I'm having trouble understanding why this is so hard for you to grasp. Imagine for a moment that you are walking down the street, suddenly a man jumps out with a gun and demands your wallet. You may go to the police and report this crime and they will attempt to apprehend him, but they cannot prevent this crime from happening. They could put 100 more officers on the street and crime would still occur, until there is one officer for everyone person, watching that person 24/7, crime cannot be prvented. Nobody supports crime, but nobody complains that it can't be completly eliminated because they understand that this is simply not possible. What if CCP did stop allowing time card sales. 3rd party prices would rise due to reduced competition and people who sell time cards would start buying thier isk there, NOTHING changes except that money that was going to CCP to improve the game is now going to sweatshops. Whether you dislike it or think it's unfair is irrelevant, there is nothing you, me, CCP, or any other MMO can do about it. PCGAMER not running thier ads anymore is a poor comparison, they run a magazine, it's not thier product being abused and I'm sure they don't have any problems filling thier add space. To CCP and other MMO companys this is a real issue effecting thier day to day business and thier customers, to compare two sepearte industries is just silly. PCGAMER can CHOOSE to stop running ads, CCP can't choose what it's customer do when logged in and there isn't enough manpower in the world to run a succesfull MMO and launch a full scale assault on RMT, if it was sombody would have don it by now. In short, unless you have some grand plan to elminate RMT from EVE quit your moaning, it can't be stoped be any resonable means and given the choice I would rather have the money go to CCP. Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Question: If I log in and out 29 times in a row and I still lose my ship can I petition?
Ceratin ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.11.22 07:56:00 - [64] Alot of ppl rely on gtcs to play, myself included. Having been forbidden to use real money to pay for it by the mrs for almost a year now. I play alot so making enough to run dif accounts is easy enough.. no gtcs would mean cancellation of at least 1 if not all of my accounts unfortunatly :( Ppl might see it as fraud but at the end of the day it helps ccp cater for the ppl in our community who cant afford ú50 a month for a computer game. Personally i feel there should be stronger rules at the other side stopping 1 person with uber cash from buying 1000 gtcs and making an eve fortune though, but with the good comes the bad i guess ------------ All hail! Leader of the pod brigade..
Dawne Xi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.11.23 05:52:00 - [65] Originally by: Removal Tool Hey CCP, exactly how does your allowance of $ to GTC to ISK (in other words buying isk) not break EVE and make any legit in-game isk earning pointless? Can someone explain to me how this is notcorruption? It's no different than a rich RL Corporation bribing a government, right? Thus removing competition? I dare CCP to give an answer that explains this. I say this as a player of 2 years with 2 accounts who wants to continue playing this game. Since UO came out in 1997, people have been selling online cash for real cash. If you think any game company can stop this from happening, you're crazy. And CCP's solution is brilliant in my opinion, it puts a real dent in the Chinese ISK Selling Company's business. It allows players who want to buy cash (who would do it anyway), do it in such a way that lets someone pay for another person's subsciption in exchange for in game cash. CCP gets the money instead of some Chinese company... What on earth is wrong with that? Besides, tell me, how many expansions have you had to buy in those 2 years you've been playing? Hmm?
albert camus Quam Singulari	Posted - 2006.11.23 10:40:00 - [66] If we take ccp out of the question. So on a compleatly ingame level how is "ebaying" any diferent from gtc trade. The only diferance is ccp get the cash. so ban this cheating
Commander Sherridan	Posted - 2006.11.23 11:53:00 - [67] I have seen plenty of arguments from people saying thet they cant afford to play eve if they couldnt buy Gtc's for isk. Well no offence but if you cant afford to play eve then you have bigger problems to worry about like getting off your asses and finding a job instead of playing games 24/7. There is this thing outside of eve called the real world you guys should try it some time. Sorry but the cant afford to play eve excuse dont cut it with me, Gtc sales and ebay isk sales need to be both stoped, your gaining an unfair advantage and to be honnest your been lazy, the rest of us have to make our isk in game why shouldnt you?
Marcus Aurelius Colossus Security Services	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:04:00 - [68] yawn We all know how it should be, don't we ? Free gameplay and no npc corps ! \o/ No, seriously, 99% of us want this game free of RMT in total. However 15 years of game developers trying to accomplish such a state have not come up with a single working solution. All MMO's have RMT, they only differ in scope (due to demand), or impact (due to basic mechanics). So, let's assume for a minute that if 15 years of experience got noone anywhere near removing RMT from the MMO genre, what options are left ? 1. do nothing and play emo all day at the abhorrent RMT rampaging through your game. See literally hundreds of thousands of dollars that the developer should be getting (if anyone at all) dissapear into the hands of RMT companies and 'mom 'n pop gil-shoppe' - type panderers. 2. Go along with it, facilitate and try to pick up some cash from it by maybe instalign some sort of silly exchange system. 3. Accept the inevitable, but come up with a way that allows the money to flow to you instead of some random sleazebag company, and at the same time minimises the impact of the whole thing on your game as much as possible. It seems rather obvious which is the better choice here, to me at least. It seems also to be the choice CCP are making.
Taaketa Frist The Praxis Initiative Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.23 12:33:00 - [69] I was thinking of starting a betting agency in game to bet how many of these threads would appear in a day. -------------- Dang nabit
Tharrum	Posted - 2006.11.23 20:03:00 - [70] But don't you find the game so much more fun when blowing up someone's shiny toy ends up in real life monetary damages instead of him just ratting for a few hours? I sure do.
coldplasma No Quarter.	Posted - 2006.11.23 20:49:00 - [71] You're complaining about something which doesn't affect you in any way? Okay, maybe your enemy sells GTC's, but he could just as well sold it to your corp mate who needs it to keep his alt running. The benefit isn't only felt on the GTC sellers end.
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2006.11.24 02:25:00 - [72] Originally by: Commander Sherridan I have seen plenty of arguments from people saying thet they cant afford to play eve if they couldnt buy Gtc's for isk. Well no offence but if you cant afford to play eve then you have bigger problems to worry about like getting off your asses and finding a job instead of playing games 24/7. There is this thing outside of eve called the real world you guys should try it some time. Who made you the judge and jury of people on low incomes? This kind of condescending rant adds absolutely nothing useful to the debate. Try being civil and thoughtful. Originally by: Commander Sherridan Sorry but the cant afford to play eve excuse dont cut it with me, Gtc sales and ebay isk sales need to be both stoped, your gaining an unfair advantage and to be honnest your been lazy, the rest of us have to make our isk in game why shouldnt you? You seem to have confused your arguments here. You were addressing comments to those who couldn't afford to pay real money to subscribe, but suddenly changed targets mid-stride (a great skill to have in fleet battles, to be sure, but not so helpful when putting forward a well constructed argument). In any case, people can and do buy all kinds of game advantages with their real money, apart from ISK. - Faster, more powerful PC's offer definite advantages. - Being able to afford better web services for your corp or alliance can make them stand out from the crowd and attract more slav.. err.. members. - Paying for additional accounts to run simultaneous alts provides obvious strategic advantages. With a little imagination, more can be added to this list. Yet you do not appear to be demanding that CCP step in and prevent such obvious "cheating". In fact, doesn't the extra real cash investment just mean that Eve is a more diverse and richer game? People trading their real cash for GTC's means more people can play, those with little available time can play how they want and money gets redistributed from the stockpiles of the unemployed billionaires to the people who really need it to build something worthwhile in this cruel universe. Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Is there anything other than ISK you might be interested in?

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