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$ to GTC to ISK breaks the game of course

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Removal Tool Flashman Services Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.20 23:36:00 - [1] Hey CCP, exactly how does your allowance of $ to GTC to ISK (in other words buying isk) not break EVE and make any legit in-game isk earning pointless? Can someone explain to me how this is notcorruption? It's no different than a rich RL Corporation bribing a government, right? Thus removing competition? I dare CCP to give an answer that explains this. I say this as a player of 2 years with 2 accounts who wants to continue playing this game. Fight with your heart and balls!
Nate D Naughty Ambitious Temptatious Endeavours	Posted - 2006.11.20 23:41:00 - [2] ... How many posts about this are there a day? Look dude... it's legal... /me uses backspace to keep this post "nice" -NateÖ --- Voice Comms are Coming ...SoonÖ [Click]
Captain GTCMAN	Posted - 2006.11.20 23:44:00 - [3] The OP is such a "tool"....if you'll pardon the pun :D But he speaks of "Corruption" so I supposed we should listen. I mean how corrupt or misaligned from normality is the idiot who gains an ingame advantage because he\she has 14 to 18 hours a day to play Eve while most of the world that has to work for a living cannot pursue such a pathological amount of playtime? Which IRL "advantages" should be ferroted out?
Major Stormer Caldari Red Storm Vendetta	Posted - 2006.11.20 23:48:00 - [4] I dont think its "gamebreaking". I do NOT like it, but Its not creating anymore ISK, just transfering it, unlike farmers and complex farmers etc.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.20 23:51:00 - [5] Originally by: Removal Tool Hey CCP, exactly how does your allowance of $ to GTC to ISK (in other words buying isk) not break EVE and make any legit in-game isk earning pointless? Because if GTCs didn't exist, people would just buy ISK off eBay, which directly funds farmers and macro miners. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Melanu Gallente Shadow Gypsies R i s e	Posted - 2006.11.21 01:08:00 - [6] Yeah I think its smart because it also keeps the price low. At one point someone in my guild posted that dollar for dollar (or pound for pound etc) you could buy more isk through game cards than you could through ebay. That tells me that the program keeps gold farmers down in the game. I am sure if the game card program wasn't there, the price for isk would only rise further and it would become more rampant.
loony thezoon	Posted - 2006.11.21 01:18:00 - [7] Tool
Hellspawn01 Amarr The Phantom Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.11.21 01:51:00 - [8] Someone buys a GTC and sells them for ... well.... nothing. And you complain about that? Ship lovers click here
Trance Gemmini	Posted - 2006.11.21 01:59:00 - [9] Edited by: Trance Gemmini on 21/11/2006 02:00:44 It's no different from buying ISK from another player, which of course IS against the EULA. Shame no one seems to care. Except those of course who profit from ISK selling via GTC, those individuals will fervently defend it and start name calling to any naysayers. Sad really... This game is so very corrupt and it begins with the rule makers.
Rayvonuk	Posted - 2006.11.21 02:29:00 - [10] Quote: It's no different than a rich RL Corporation bribing a government, right? Thus removing competition? its much much different, Where are the similarities ?
Grez Minmatar The Raven Warriors	Posted - 2006.11.21 02:30:00 - [11] Originally by: Trance Gemmini Edited by: Trance Gemmini on 21/11/2006 02:00:44 It's no different from buying ISK from another player, which of course IS against the EULA. Shame no one seems to care. Except those of course who profit from ISK selling via GTC, those individuals will fervently defend it and start name calling to any naysayers. Sad really... This game is so very corrupt and it begins with the rule makers. Except, it's 100% different. All the money goes to CCP directly, not to another player, or some macro'ing farm shop boy. --- Cache Clearer Still waiting for a Wrangler-edit!
Removal Tool Flashman Services Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.21 03:08:00 - [12] IÆll respond in order: Nate: So itÆs legal. It shouldnÆt be. Captain GTCMAN and Major Stormer: In-game time should benefit the player In-game. You put more time in, you should get a greater reward. In fact a player that ôkeeps upö with someone that puts in more time, by buying isk, undercuts the work put in in-game. Should everything be for sale and nothing achieved by putting in the work that it was intended to represent. ItÆs the same rational that someone using cheats could use against someone who was not. ôWell this guy is better because heÆs played longer and somehow thatÆs not fair, but it IS fair for me to buy my way to equivalency or superiority instead of putting in the work. Dark Shikari: It prevents Macro miners and Ebay auctions? Ebay auctions of any property of CCP can be removed by Ebay, exactly as it is done to sellers of EOM software by the software publishers. Melanu: Keeping isk price low? Lol in no way justifies out of game factors from influencing in-game economics. Hellspawn01: My position is that translating money to GTC to isk takes away from the purity of the game completely. Rayvonuk: The similarity lies in being able to influence a system, intended to be fair and therefore make sense, by outside factors. i.e. an athlete gaining a performance advantage by taking steroids. And Grez, the fact that CCP is benefiting financially short term by hurting the game long term is hardly comforting. It is a sell-out plain and simple. Fight with your heart and balls!

Eldo Davip Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2006.11.21 03:33:00 - [13] Thread cleaned. Please don't resort to name calling. ___ Email Us (Report a bad post) \| Forum Rules \| Website EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER

Thaylon Sen The Rat Pack	Posted - 2006.11.21 03:43:00 - [14] I totaly disagree with the sale of GTC for ISK... On the other hand, I cant afford to play EVE so I buy 3 of the things evey month so I can continue to play the game I love... go figure. What should happen is that CCP should fix the prices and provide some offical mechanisim with which to control it. Also, I wonder on the significance of this statement. Quote: So is it going to be a perpetual war between secondary markets and game operators like CCP? Can you ever beat them? Magn·s: They are going to lose big soon. We are implementing something that we have been thinking about for a year and a half now. We need the players' support before we can do it, but we know that we'll get it. It's a very different approach from what you have seen before. article
Tammarr	Posted - 2006.11.21 03:46:00 - [15] Now Removal. In any other game I would have agreed with you that gametime means higher end character. What you fail to see here is that eve has one thing that functions very differently. Being? Skilltraining. You can be just as skilled by playing 1 hour a day for 2 years as you can playing 10 hours a day for 2 years. The trouble then comes. The ones with plenty of time get plenty of isk to use as they see fit for funtime, the ones with little time spend 1 hour each day grinding missions, then pvps one day and can be down two weeks work easily. In this they loose funtime on the "global" basis, they might get just as much hours of funtime as a hardcore 10 hours a day player but in rl timescale they wont even get close, now I'am to tired to write more and I know I leave a huge hole in this sentence. I'll try to comeback and tidy them up in the morning =)
Miss Social	Posted - 2006.11.21 04:00:00 - [16] Originally by: Removal Tool IÆll respond in order: Dark Shikari: It prevents Macro miners and Ebay auctions? Ebay auctions of any property of CCP can be removed by Ebay, exactly as it is done to sellers of EOM software by the software publishers. You know people buy any number of in game currency from plenty of sites that cannot be policed as nicely as Ebay... Quote: Melanu: Keeping isk price low? Lol in no way justifies out of game factors from influencing in-game economics. Yes actually Melanu is correct. If selling isk for real life money was more profitable for the isk sellers we would see more of them and that means they would have a greater influence on in-game economics. Quote: Hellspawn01: My position is that translating money to GTC to isk takes away from the purity of the game completely. Well great. Personally every crash, laggy fleet battle, bug and soul-less randomly generated mission description does more harm than numbers going up or down. Quote: Rayvonuk: The similarity lies in being able to influence a system, intended to be fair and therefore make sense, by outside factors. i.e. an athlete gaining a performance advantage by taking steroids. Eve? Fair? Make Sense? snort Have you seen the T2 BPO monopolies? Rigged Aurora events? GM Corruption? Or ever paid attention to the fact that Eve (much like life) is never fair. Please. Quote: And Grez, the fact that CCP is benefiting financially short term by hurting the game long term is hardly comforting. It is a sell-out plain and simple. Yeah best leave the real life money to isk banking in the hands of the isk farmers. I am sure it would be less destructive as a black market element to your pure game. On a personal note I wouldn't play Eve if I couldn't sell a timecard here and there. Why? Because I can't be asked to mine/trade/rat for six hours to get my next big battleship blown up. What is your response to me? "Good, you don't deserve to play Eve?" Perhaps? Go soak your head.
Sarpadeon Freedom Guard Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.21 04:02:00 - [17] search eve/ISK on ebay, ccp CAN NOT stop them from using ebay as it violates no laws, ccp can only ban accounts found to be doing it. i actualy like the idea of being able to buy a month or 2 of game time with ISK, if you can make 140+m isk a month you could basicaly play for free as long as you where able to make enufgh per month to get another GTC. it also allows CCP to set the max profit someone could possibly make by Ebaying isk, as its a much better dollar/SIK conversion ratio with GTCs, therefore minimizing the ebay sellers/farmers as much as possible(because they cant stop them all) also for those that dont have 10 hours a day to play, and dont have a moneyprinter t2 BPO this gives them a possible way to be able to afford stuff in a reasonable timeframe. i know i would be **** frusterated if i had 7 or so hrs of game time a week, and had tons of skillpoints, but couldnt afford to BUY/afford to lose any of the things i had skills for without 2 months of pure farming every ingame moment(ie T2 guns + BS, HACs ect) note these are my views on GTCs, they do not represent my corp or alliances views
Removal Tool Flashman Services Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.21 04:56:00 - [18] Miss Social, I never suggested that you didn't deserve to play EVE. Can I skip soaking my head? But what about the EVE player that works, had family, etc. and would rather not spend his income to play the game beyond the monthly fee? Does EVE become that expensive? Because that's how it is for most EVE players. Average age 27. MMORPGs take time. The average player spends 17 hours per week. Getting around that fact is the justification for cash for isk. Now it becomes a completely different game, not as advertised destroying the investment in time that so many have made. http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b157/blacklabelsar/BoSSiggyFinal.jpg Signature dimensions exceeds max 400x120 dimensions allowed. Mail us if you have any questions -Eldo Fight with your heart and balls!
Miss Overlord Gallente Ferrum Pugnus	Posted - 2006.11.21 05:01:00 - [19] look NPCing in 0.0 u can make 2 bil in a week if youre smart lol as far as GTCs they are a revenue source for CCP - 250m for a 30 day card is about normal its not really that much ISK tbh. It doesnt break the game as ISK inflation is stable its all those assets (items and ships) sitting in ppls hangers that are inflationary but they arent counted unless they are sold traded etc for ISK I would prefer to see CCP get a cut of the proceeds ( legally brought GTCs that contribute revenues for them to develop the game) rather than loose thousands in lost revenue to ebay scum Its the lesser of 2 evils and i would prefer to see it stay
Coasterbrian Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.21 05:52:00 - [20] You are whine thread number 496502612 about this topic. What makes you think that yours is going to elicit a response any different from the 496502611 that came before it? ---------- I say what I mean, but I don't always mean what I say.
Miss Social	Posted - 2006.11.21 05:59:00 - [21] Originally by: Removal Tool Miss Social, I never suggested that you didn't deserve to play EVE. Can I skip soaking my head? But what about the EVE player that works, had family, etc. and would rather not spend his income to play the game beyond the monthly fee? Does EVE become that expensive? If you get into T2 stuff eve is that expensive. My problem is I have a habit of losing ships when I really shouldn't. Lets see, my main has 30+ BS losses. Of those 30 I am sure 25 were very preventable. So my suggestion to you is don't be like me, play smart and your isk should go quite far. (Unless you want T2 ships/gear then well...) I spend about 5 hours a week playing and about one of those five hours is devoted to easy money making (IE not a huge return). The other 4 hours I am losing isk left and right. Now maybe if I became very serious about Eve and did spend 17 hours a week playing I wouldn't buy timecards but since they are an option it is the way I play the game. I know I would have quit ages ago when losing battleship #4 meant four more hours of mining. Instead I purchased a time card and kept playing.
Orri Sarikusa	Posted - 2006.11.21 07:26:00 - [22] Still circumvents the principle of risk verse reward. Most people whine about risk verse reward. Delete the other posts about risk verse reward and then you can delete GTC posts. --- How to avoid a ban. The Manuel approach - 'I know nothing I'm from Barcelona'
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2006.11.21 07:28:00 - [23] While I don't like the $ => GTC => ISK cheating, the T2 BPO lottery is much worse, since it basically gave a bunch of people a free income of $6000+ per year (don't you think that some of the 50B ISK/year BPO holders are selling ISK?).
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.21 07:47:00 - [24] Originally by: Tammarr Now Removal. In any other game I would have agreed with you that gametime means higher end character. What you fail to see here is that eve has one thing that functions very differently. Being? Skilltraining. You can be just as skilled by playing 1 hour a day for 2 years as you can playing 10 hours a day for 2 years. The trouble then comes. The ones with plenty of time get plenty of isk to use as they see fit for funtime, the ones with little time spend 1 hour each day grinding missions, then pvps one day and can be down two weeks work easily. In this they loose funtime on the "global" basis, they might get just as much hours of funtime as a hardcore 10 hours a day player but in rl timescale they wont even get close, now I'am to tired to write more and I know I leave a huge hole in this sentence. I'll try to comeback and tidy them up in the morning =) this is only one aspect - another aspect are alliances ... lets imagine the following situation. alliance A and alliance B are fighting for a 0.0 system. alliance A is denying the terretory to alliance B - B can't hunt, can't mine, can't travel without the risk beeing shot down after a few minutes. it's hard to earn money for them in their 0.0 system. maybe alliance A also has an empire war against alliance B ... so not even the missionrunner in empire are safe. alliance A denies alliance B access to funds - that's imho how wars should be won. either one side gives up ... or it ends in a war of attrition, where the sides win that can manage it ressources through better. the moment someone from alliance B starts buying ISK for GTCs the balance disappears. why? suddenly alliance B has no need to npc and mine to fund the fleet and POSes. while alliance A still has to do so - and you can trust me - wars cost lots of isk .. even if you're on the winning side. so the chance is high that alliance A loses this war because they can't keep up the funding like alliance B does, because they don't resort to out-of-game means to fund this war. winning the war doesn't mean not to have losses - it only means to survive at a certain location. you can see it like a 1v1 of two ships - while alliance B "blows up", alliance A ends up in structure. but when alliance B gets the "buff through ISK for GTC" it's likely the other way round. ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Orri Sarikusa	Posted - 2006.11.21 08:51:00 - [25] The good side of course some people can play because of it. However, I think these are in the minority. I've noticed some moans that the ISK price is now too high and now they have to use cash. But the alliance situation highlighted above is a game breaker. So a compromise is needed. How about only a certain amount of GTCs are allowed to be sold for ISK? Enough to satisfy demand for those that really cannot pay by cash. To do this you would need to register sellers and buyers which I think would carry other benefits. --- How to avoid a ban. The Manuel approach - 'I know nothing I'm from Barcelona'
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.21 11:17:00 - [26] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 21/11/2006 11:17:31 Originally by: Removal Tool Dark Shikari: It prevents Macro miners and Ebay auctions? Ebay auctions of any property of CCP can be removed by Ebay, exactly as it is done to sellers of EOM software by the software publishers. This is a myth. eBay has refused in the past, and will refuse in the future. EULAs are not legally enforceable, and CCP knows this. If CCP could wave a magic wand and have all the farmers go away, they'd do it. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
General Apocalypse Amarr The Merchant Marines Miners With Attitude	Posted - 2006.11.21 11:21:00 - [27] Edited by: General Apocalypse on 21/11/2006 11:22:41 Originally by: Removal Tool Hey CCP, exactly how does your allowance of $ to GTC to ISK (in other words buying isk) not break EVE and make any legit in-game isk earning pointless? Can someone explain to me how this is notcorruption? It's no different than a rich RL Corporation bribing a government, right? Thus removing competition? I dare CCP to give an answer that explains this. I say this as a player of 2 years with 2 accounts who wants to continue playing this game. Think that this is the ONLY way for poor ppl to play EVE ----------------------- Amarr Invictus
jeNK Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.21 11:42:00 - [28] For those who cannot see how GTC trades are 'breaking' the game, here are two scenarios: 1.) Snazzy ship or mod for sale. Player 'x' is desperate to get it. Instead of mining/ratting/mission running like an addict looking for a fix, they simply purchase a few GTC's, trade them for ISK, then buy the ship/module. Next time that module comes up, because it sold so quickly, the price will be higher. 2.) You're at war with someone. The idea is to blow their stuff up quicker than they can replenish it, right? So you strike their production, kill their barges, nuke their haulers, kapow their ratting ships.. but wait.. how is it possible they are still undocking in those t2 ships? Oh, I see, they trade GTC's.. The reason they are legal, and this is paraphrased from the horses mouth (dev's) is that GTC trades are a loophole in the existing rules, but why CCP won't simply change the rules is just.. ?!
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.21 11:47:00 - [29] Originally by: jeNK 1.) Snazzy ship or mod for sale. Player 'x' is desperate to get it. Instead of mining/ratting/mission running like an addict looking for a fix, they simply purchase a few GTC's, trade them for ISK, then buy the ship/module. Next time that module comes up, because it sold so quickly, the price will be higher. This doesn't really apply... because they bought the GTCs were sold to another player, who paid their ISK for it, and thus won't be competing for that faction mod. It cancels out. Originally by: jeNK 2.) You're at war with someone. The idea is to blow their stuff up quicker than they can replenish it, right? So you strike their production, kill their barges, nuke their haulers, kapow their ratting ships.. but wait.. how is it possible they are still undocking in those t2 ships? Oh, I see, they trade GTC's.. There are about 500 other, more effective loopholes to replace ships, often known as "industry alts." GTCs cause problems and can create situations that are "unfair", but nothing as serious as you've described. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
EVE Teamspeak	Posted - 2006.11.21 11:59:00 - [30] Edited by: EVE Teamspeak on 21/11/2006 12:00:44 Originally by: Removal Tool Hey CCP, exactly how does your allowance of $ to GTC to ISK (in other words buying isk) not break EVE and make any legit in-game isk earning pointless? Can someone explain to me how this is notcorruption? Are you playing EVE Online and enjoying it? To quote Archie Bunker, "Then Shaddad up already meathead" Just play the game and have fun.

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