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Bjurn Akely
Knights of Nii The 20 Minuters
83
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Posted - 2015.06.12 19:01:58 -
[61] - Quote
Posting response in the other thread here, for... reasons.
........ Implementing this without instantly propagating Alliance Bookmarks (or Fleet Bookmarks for that matter) is frankly pretty dumb. If the premise is that players should have to actively play the game (by warping themselves) then it follows that the players need to be able to do so in a timely fashion. The debacle that is propagation of Corp Bookmarks today does not suffice, in my opinion. And Alliance Bookmarks does not even exist. Fleet Bookmarks is not even discussed.
Sure, this hits (us) wormholers, but I feel open events such as Ganked or Redemption Roams get shafted something terrible. In those fleets you often have new players. Players that need all the help they can on the battlefield.
Not impressed. Either this is a think tank brain fart or the think tank want Eve to go in a direction I do not care for or agree with.
...... Addendum: I sure do hope that the notion that 'fixing' that w-space has no gate will mean that holes show up on overview, un-scanned as I've seen someone suggest (no name and shame goes here). That's just.... no. Lets not even think about what that would mean to w-space. |
Seraph Essael
eXceed Inc.
1114
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 19:05:55 -
[62] - Quote
corbexx wrote:I dont like it I think its pretty terrible.
CCP Larrikin is potentially happy to chat to us about it
Yeah. Pretty terrible is an understatement.
As for happy to talk about it, will he do what Fozzie did last time and pull the wool over our eyes stating that they are considering what we said, and then went and changed everything anyway, ignoring us?
Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
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Borsek
Incertae Sedis
303
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 19:16:33 -
[63] - Quote
Seraph Essael wrote:corbexx wrote:I dont like it I think its pretty terrible.
CCP Larrikin is potentially happy to chat to us about it Yeah. Pretty terrible is an understatement. As for happy to talk about it, will he do what Fozzie did last time and pull the wool over our eyes stating that they are considering what we said, and then went and changed everything anyway, ignoring us?
Yep. That's why there is absolutely no point in attending.
Besides: >2015 >not flying frigates in nullsec
go fly frigs in null, that's what this game is for, man |
MekaJonna
Nehalem Inc.
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 19:40:38 -
[64] - Quote
Cross post from https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5813719#post5813719
These changes will make it impossible to catch Ratters. Pilots are going to start poping all the triggers in anomalys forcing combat probes to be used. There is no combat probing ship that can stop a battleship sitting on a mobile depot from refitting to a full rack of stabs and warping off.
Don't even get me started on W-Hole PvP, all of which happens on top of bookmarks known as wormholes.... Warping the fleet at different speeds will be the death of all lower class ships, Small corps can not afford to burn a pilot just so the logi can land at the same time as the battleships. |
Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
249
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Posted - 2015.06.12 21:28:20 -
[65] - Quote
What is this attempting to achieve? I honestly see no positives here.
If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.
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Steven Hackett
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
177
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 23:30:11 -
[66] - Quote
Cross-posting blue post from the original feedback thread, cause I assume the message is to us as well :)
CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Mates, The original post has been updated with a few more Q&A's answering some of your questions. We've got a lot of amazing feedback and we're going to go back to the CSM with some ideas. Expect an update next week. Have a great weekend!
My personal opinion on the bluepost: Please don't. I would like this change to be reviewed by an objective team who will take all of EVE into account, and not just butter their own bread.
Miss EVE 2015 popularity contest isn't a good venue for objective feedback on gamedesign. |
Winthorp
3542
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 00:56:08 -
[67] - Quote
Steven Hackett wrote:Cross-posting blue post from the original feedback thread, cause I assume the message is to us as well :) CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Mates, The original post has been updated with a few more Q&A's answering some of your questions. We've got a lot of amazing feedback and we're going to go back to the CSM with some ideas. Expect an update next week. Have a great weekend! My personal opinion on the bluepost: Please don't. I would like this change to be reviewed by an objective team who will take all of EVE into account, and not just butter their own bread. Miss EVE 2015 popularity contest isn't a good venue for objective feedback on gamedesign.
CCP Dark Razer, best razor.
You can trust this dev honestly when he says he will listen and look at it again. He was an an accomplished FC before joining CCP and an all round nice dude, was great to be in his corp and his fleets.
That said they are throwing a semi trailer at a cockroach problem and i hope now that they see how badly this will affect us in WH space and develop a better plan.
I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's".
Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
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Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery Prolapse.
2424
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Posted - 2015.06.13 01:22:37 -
[68] - Quote
I said it on my blog, but I'll say it again here. Anything that removes laziness as an acceptable, nay neccessary, way of playing this game is good, in theory, because the more you become engaged with the playing of the game the more you'llkeep playing the game.
The problem with nullsec at the moment, and somewhat in w-space, is the sit and spin mentality, awaiting a ping on jabber or someone yarfing cookies on TS about escalation quad spotted in some C5. Then everyone undocks/forms up, and an FC leads you around by the nose.
The way the life of a typical blade of long grass goes in a large entity is like this:
- Ship spin while playing Tanks / DOTA / Panty Rancher Sugoii Edition
- Jabber Ping! OMG, put on headset and FC blabber jabber doctrine undock, undock, undock.
- Align gate. Gate broadcast, gate broadcast. Align, align, align. Take fleet warp.
- Jump gate. Align out gate. (repeat as neccesary)
- Warp to titan, warp to titan, warp to titan. Don't bump titan, titan, titan. (or wormhole, whatever)
- Cyno up, jump, jump, jump.
- Anchor on FC. Follow primary. Primary broadcast. Primary broadcast. Logi, wtf you useless scrub muffins. Where's my dictors?
- Take fleet warp to ping. Take fleet warp to ping. Take fleet warp to ping.
- Press F1. Press F1. Broadcast for reps.
- Welp successful / mission accomplished.
- Align gate. Gate broadcast, gate broadcast. Align, align, align. Take fleet warp.
- Jump gate. Align out gate. (repeat as neccesary)
- Warp to titan, warp to titan, warp to titan. Don't bump titan, titan, titan. (or wormhole, whatever)
- Cyno up, jump, jump, jump.
- OK boiz, dock up, put in your SRP requests.
[*} Now, do i take my Tier 5 German tank out, or the KV5?
So. Excite. Much killmail. Eliteness level achieved.
Don't get me wrong, from my limited time in NC Dot I learned a lot of good small gang and solo PVPers existed, hidden like a rake amongst the hordes of people like above. They usually flew tackle. Everyone else was just there for the killmails, as if we can't tell that they have no real ability to actually small gang PVP (or as it seems, 'micro gang').
This is a terrible, passive way to play the game. just like 50 bombers humping a BLOPs for hours is. CCP' is clearly trying to push the game into a more dynamic environment for PVP. Part of this has been a push towards smaller ships (right or wrong). Part has been to dismantle systems and structures which encourage blobbing and aggregation. This has included nerfing capital mobility, which is more about removing the need to counter large fleets of caps with large fleets of caps, which creates a system of two or four huge entitites. Part has been the move away from DPS/EHP mechanics to control defence and territory and infrastructure. This has created the Entosis Link.
The natural result of all of this will be small gangs of people fighting over ten to fifty billion bloody capture buttons in nullsec, circling passively (with an alt, w/e). Of course, the problem now becomes that the scene will still be dominated by fleets. Nothing will stop combat probers resolving entosis ships on far-off button grids and fleet warping alpha fleets on top of them, ganking the entosis ship and moving on and on.
The whole entosis mechanic and vision of skirmish warfare replacing blob warfare, and the game becoming more dynamic, exciting and sill based, relies on dissolving fleet mechanics like this, and making sure people can't fling 250 man alpha fleets at dispersed Entosis ships using combat probers.
Sady, wormholes will become a bit of collateral damage.
However, I think the logic of breaking down fleet responsibilities to lower levels, like squad commanders, really does kind of suggest that CCP should just knock wing and fleet level warps on the head and keep squad warps. That's a maximum of ten ships doing the same thing at the same time, and would (by and large) preserve w-space and small gang gameplay.
Doctor Prince Field Marshall of Prolapse. Alliance and Grand Sasquatch of Bob
We take Batphones. Contact us at Hola Batmanuel - Free call 1800-UR-MOMMA
~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
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Adarnof
Free Trade Monopoly You Are Being Monitored
87
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 04:22:25 -
[69] - Quote
corbexx wrote:CCP Larrikin is potentially happy to chat to us about it
Good use of the word potentially. Gives us enough incentive to post criticism without committing him to any replies. Reminds me of another dev who spawned a few reply-less threadnaughts so many months ago... |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
2183
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 06:57:59 -
[70] - Quote
I don't like this change. It makes it too hard to catch ratters watching for probes. Limiting it to squads is a good compromise I think.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Boris Dodger
Quantum Explosion E X P L O S I O N
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 08:20:24 -
[71] - Quote
This is completely unacceptable for wh space. Game already offers extremely limited tools for navigating wspace. You have bookmarks, signatures and sites. Thats are you options for controlling where to fight.
Nobody fights on planets/gates/stations in wh space. No bloogy public sites.
There is no option to "fly your ship" yourself in wh space whit this change, other than every single pilot to have scanning alt second screen. This is not viable.
Secondary, lets say you have several dedicated scanners, and one is not in t3 but flying lets say astero or covops. If fleet warps to it on anomaly in order to catch ppl running them, or fleet on another wh - if it decloacks its alphaed of field. And left in possibly very expensive pod, as wh ones tend to be.
Lets see all the nerfs in wh space: - Limiting rolling time (aprox 6min per hole from 3min) - New signatures pop up very visually when appears giving extra warning to defending party - Bookmarks are **** and randomly appear to fleet members - no consistency - giving individual warps not reliable. Sometimes there are up to 5 mins for bm to appear - so without fleet warps - there is no reliable way for pilots to get to target. - NO FLEET WARPS??
I'm supporting "fly more" theory, WHEN game is working reliably, and there exists way to do so! Which in WH space DOESNT.
CCP, how about giving us new and/or reliable tools for a change so we CAN fly more, instead of taking away stuff that some how some time works.
Probing is extremly slow and somewhat buggy **yes even with full virtue sets and t3's** bookmarks are NOT reliable. Fleet bookmarks DONT exist, fleet broadcasts are messy and noisy and not nearly clear enough to replace them (if fleet position broadcast can be saved, named and viewed separatly - it may be usefull).
In 2015 interface is slow, archaic and unreliable. Stop making it even bloody worse and introduce something for a change. No information is given in game, you have to rely for wh navigation to 3rd party tools and sites.
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Boris Dodger
Quantum Explosion E X P L O S I O N
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 08:28:26 -
[72] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:corbexx wrote:there is a new blog herelong story short you wont be able to fleet warp to probe results and bookmarks. I dont like it I think its pretty terrible. CCP Larrikin is potentially happy to chat to us about it Confirming!
Please share with us CCP chain of tought - how battles and fleet operations are envisioned with this change in wh space? |
corbexx
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1366
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 08:42:11 -
[73] - Quote
Boris Dodger wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:corbexx wrote:there is a new blog herelong story short you wont be able to fleet warp to probe results and bookmarks. I dont like it I think its pretty terrible. CCP Larrikin is potentially happy to chat to us about it Confirming! Please share with us CCP chain of tought - how battles and fleet operations are envisioned with this change in wh space?
better yet your more than welcome to come along and ask him yourself
Corbexx for CSM X - Wormholes still deserve better
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Nelly Uanos
Spirit Unlimited La Division Bleue
28
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 09:14:00 -
[74] - Quote
Nerf to Multi-boxing : Fine with me.
Nerf to F1 Monkey : Fine with me.
I think I might like this change.
P.S. : I'm already loving the amount of salt production |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
666
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 09:32:39 -
[75] - Quote
Zappity wrote:I don't like this change. It makes it too hard to catch ratters watching for probes. Limiting it to squads is a good compromise I think. Anomalies can still be fleet-warped to ... you mean ratters in DED sites or escalations? I also would assume everybody watching for probes is quite safe anyway ... If not watching, the ratter will POS up if you come to local giving you no time to probe or it doesn't matter the warp-in needs 30s more ... and people behind acc gates are relaxed too until your non-cloaky ship appears on short range scan ... I don't see the problem ...
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Boris Dodger
Quantum Explosion E X P L O S I O N
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 10:34:56 -
[76] - Quote
corbexx wrote:Boris Dodger wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:corbexx wrote:there is a new blog herelong story short you wont be able to fleet warp to probe results and bookmarks. I dont like it I think its pretty terrible. CCP Larrikin is potentially happy to chat to us about it Confirming! Please share with us CCP chain of tought - how battles and fleet operations are envisioned with this change in wh space? better yet your more than welcome to come along and ask him yourself
@Corbex, i did :) What do you propose? Is there a way to organize such a session? I'll gladly participate |
Winthorp
3543
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 11:05:13 -
[77] - Quote
Boris Dodger wrote:corbexx wrote:Boris Dodger wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:corbexx wrote:there is a new blog herelong story short you wont be able to fleet warp to probe results and bookmarks. I dont like it I think its pretty terrible. CCP Larrikin is potentially happy to chat to us about it Confirming! Please share with us CCP chain of tought - how battles and fleet operations are envisioned with this change in wh space? better yet your more than welcome to come along and ask him yourself @Corbex, i did :) What do you propose? Is there a way to organize such a session? I'll gladly participate
I think you missed this.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=429514
I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's".
Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
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Boris Dodger
Quantum Explosion E X P L O S I O N
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 11:07:23 -
[78] - Quote
I did. Thanks for sharing a link. Will see you there! |
Angux Thermopyle
Negative Density Whatever.
33
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 15:10:33 -
[79] - Quote
This is such a lazy solution. Simply deleting a mechanic is the worst way to resolve a problem.
If you want pilots to feel more involved or make more decsions then there are a myriad of ways to do this without borking an entire mechanic that has worked for the life of this game. Its very disappointing.
If you want individual pilots (or more pilots) enjoying the game then you have to make each ship in a fleet count for something and break up the massive one ship one fit type fleets. Make squads of ships utilize a full range of ships in order to be successful and let the pilots make individual decisions to effect the battle.
FC's get the fleet into position. WC's make sure the squads are supported (Logi/EWAR). SL's engage and call targets.
Historical perspective is easy on this. Generals dont win battles, they can only lose them. Junior officers and Non-Commissioned officers win the battles.
How do we do this in EvE? Locking times.
-If blue crusier locks red cruiser then lock time is normal -If a second blue cruiser locks red crusier then there is a penalty -Blue destroyers and frigates can lock red cruiser at a reduced penalty This continues until it is pointless for any more blue ships to lock red cruiser.
If blue crusier locks red battleship then x number of blue cruisers can lock red battleship without penalty. additional smaller class ships can lock red battleship at a reduced penalty.
If blue battleship locks red cruiser then there is a severe penalty for all blue ships locking red cruiser.
This mechanic also works for logistics ships so only so many logi can lock a single blue cruiser.
This spreads out the responsiblity to small gangs of well coordinated pilots. This brings death and destruction to both parties, not just total victory for one side and total loss for the other. Fleets and fits are more diverse and there is a role for newer pilots. The fleet with the better leadership wins.
Good small gang leaders become the premium.
Coms have to be broken down to the squad level and this adds an element of chaos as because you are listening to your squad leader who is listening to the wing commander who is listening to the FC. Welcome to the fog of war.
Go watch the movie Midway. I think this is what we all want.
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MekaJonna
Nehalem Inc.
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 16:04:58 -
[80] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Zappity wrote:I don't like this change. It makes it too hard to catch ratters watching for probes. Limiting it to squads is a good compromise I think. Anomalies can still be fleet-warped to ... you mean ratters in DED sites or escalations? I also would assume everybody watching for probes is quite safe anyway ... If not watching, the ratter will POS up if you come to local giving you no time to probe or it doesn't matter the warp-in needs 30s more ... and people behind acc gates are relaxed too until your non-cloaky ship appears on short range scan ... I don't see the problem ...
You must of missed my earlier post; we're talking about w-space. Ratters are going to Pop all the triggers of a site on warpin removing it from the anom list forcing the use of combat probes. |
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Kynric
Sky Fighters
311
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Posted - 2015.06.13 23:40:32 -
[81] - Quote
It just occurred to me that this is going to affect fleets warping to combat and fleets warping away from combat unequally. It will be possible to fleet warp to a moon, which although not as good as actually warping into the shield is pretty good because of POS defenses whike the hunter will not be able to fleet warp to the prey. I would be much happier if this proposal were either not done at all or if it trashed fleet warp in its entireity. The removing some uses but not others seems very klunky. |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery Prolapse.
2434
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 23:53:08 -
[82] - Quote
Angux Thermopyle wrote:This is such a lazy solution. Simply deleting a mechanic is the worst way to resolve a problem.
If you want pilots to feel more involved or make more decsions then there are a myriad of ways to do this without borking an entire mechanic that has worked for the life of this game. Its very disappointing.
If you want individual pilots (or more pilots) enjoying the game then you have to make each ship in a fleet count for something and break up the massive one ship one fit type fleets. Make squads of ships utilize a full range of ships in order to be successful and let the pilots make individual decisions to effect the battle.
FC's get the fleet into position. WC's make sure the squads are supported (Logi/EWAR). SL's engage and call targets.
Historical perspective is easy on this. Generals dont win battles, they can only lose them. Junior officers and Non-Commissioned officers win the battles.
How do we do this in EvE? Locking times.
-If blue crusier locks red cruiser then lock time is normal -If a second blue cruiser locks red crusier then there is a penalty -Blue destroyers and frigates can lock red cruiser at a reduced penalty This continues until it is pointless for any more blue ships to lock red cruiser.
If blue crusier locks red battleship then x number of blue cruisers can lock red battleship without penalty. additional smaller class ships can lock red battleship at a reduced penalty.
If blue battleship locks red cruiser then there is a severe penalty for all blue ships locking red cruiser.
This mechanic also works for logistics ships so only so many logi can lock a single blue cruiser.
This spreads out the responsiblity to small gangs of well coordinated pilots. This brings death and destruction to both parties, not just total victory for one side and total loss for the other. Fleets and fits are more diverse and there is a role for newer pilots. The fleet with the better leadership wins.
Good small gang leaders become the premium.
Coms have to be broken down to the squad level and this adds an element of chaos as because you are listening to your squad leader who is listening to the wing commander who is listening to the FC. Welcome to the fog of war.
They tried this mechanism out with the complete and utter failure which was the Target Spectrum Breaker module. Wonder how that went?
Doctor Prince Field Marshall of Prolapse. Alliance and Grand Sasquatch of Bob
We take Batphones. Contact us at Hola Batmanuel - Free call 1800-UR-MOMMA
~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
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Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
157
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 09:48:06 -
[83] - Quote
Most of the points have been spelled out pretty well already.
Again this is a change that hurts the smaller groups way harder. Not a problem for papa goon where you pay your rattingtax via paplinks. Instead of 150 pilots in the "misc"-fleets (bombers and celestris mostly, exactly these things that are the reason BS or sniperfleets mostly suck) there will be only 140 and 10 mobile bookmarks with a pulse. For a 30 man fleet 3-5 bookmarkers are a good number, stripping it of up to 10% of the dps. And a 6 man fleet that now needs 3 instead of 1 or 2 scanners that is huge.
It adds a timesink to wormholetravel. On paper adding 20 secs waitingtime to each worp isn-¦t that much, but it feels horrible. Remember the feeling when you sit on a hole waiting for the targets to warp to a site? It will be like that just once per system you travel trough. And it can easily add up to 2-3 minutes aka half a siegecycle.
"you only need one more scout with your fleet " Unless they are semicompetent and have scouts themselves and warp to their way home. Right now you can fleetwarp there and catch them on the hole, without fleetwarp that is completely impossible.
The notion this change will do anything to nerf the highest WH-incomes aka escalations by CCP Larkin is strange. You will just be warping in the capitals a few seconds before the lokis. It is not like the capitals can-¦t tank the site for the extratime. For the hunters it will add a few seconds for the suicidescanner eigher to land on grid or a unbonused dictor to get to 100%. But trying to catch mobile ships, good luck with that, a cloaked scout can-¦t use propmods and a frigate will be popped in less than 20 secs by most rattingsetups or the rats when it activates its point. Not to forget that we now have mobile depots so most ratters will just refit WCSs and no single tacker can do anything about that.
"Just put a cloaky on grid with them" - Adds more time for the targets to smell something is up, most sites are littered with orbiting rats, gasclouds, asteroids, wrecks being dragged by tractorunits and LCOs. Not to forget the bug when sleepers shoot cloaked ships and so uncloaking them.
For fleetcombat it is horrible since ships have different warpspeeds. This will not lead to more BS use but more T3s. Totally ok for me with that ribbonprice being in the dumbster anyways, but not a positiv change for differenciating warfare. Not to forget navigationskill also effect warpspeed turning a cool-looking, uniform fleetwarp into a nice on-by-one killmail delivery service. Plus we now have RLMLs that murder fasttackle like nothing else.
I can barely thing of any fleetcomp that will really benefit from this change, but several which will just become more useless. Midscalekiting will love this, there are so little mordus or guristaships in use right now.
Another thing some old players might still remember how to do fleetwarps with tacklers dying instantly: Dropping cans all over the place. Also wrecks are also warpable, so that focus you want to put on tacklers will consist of "drop stuff all over the grid or make a wreck nice and close to the enemy". Much fun, such wow. |
Bleedingthrough
Project AIice
165
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 12:17:34 -
[84] - Quote
The proposed changes will nerf the ability to function as a multi corporation alliance in WH space very hard.
What options will these groups have to get to the target system or have BMs available:
- Exchanging bookmarks amongst the corporations and waiting for them to populate. Exchanger needs to wait till BMs are populated and then the receiving corp needs to wait. You will only be able to gank noobs like this.
- Have a warpin sitting on the next WH. In this scenario you need a pilot from the probing corp to provide a warpin. He needs to wait till his BMs are populated.
- Scout providing warpin at the WH. This is probably the worst option. Not only will the scout lose eyes on the target he will also be visible while jumping and probably be polarized on itGÇÖs way back to the target WH.
- Sit in a probed down chain and wait for someone to move/leave force field. In most cases only arranged fights will happen in this scenario. Both sides got full intel and only fight if they win. No side got the element of surprise.
This change will not impact the speed at which fleets get on a target in the neighboring WH. It will however hamper the ability to operate deeper in the chain for multi corporation alliances very hard. In the worst case scenario the quality of a good scout is totally mitigated by the inability to move the fleet fast. I donGÇÖt think forcing WH groups to merge in big groups is the freedom of choice eve players want.
From a RP standpoint it is totally ridiculous how hard it is to exchange something simple as coordinates. Is it really as hard as transferring the blueprint of a titan. This needs a fix before telling people to individually warp to BMs.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5305080#post5305080
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Jack Miton
WeebleCORP
4509
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 04:19:14 -
[85] - Quote
I think what this actually comes down to is not that the fleet warp change itself is bad, it's that the bookmark mechanics are bad. If CCP added alliance and fleet level bookmark systems, along with a sync button on the BM screens that would instantly sync an individual's bookmarks without needing to wait 5min for the auto sync, then this change would be generally applauded.
In its current state, the bookmark system just does not and cannot provide an acceptable substitute for the fleet warp mechanic. As such, at least squad warp needs to remain.
There is no Bob.
Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
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Winthorp
3545
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 06:22:51 -
[86] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:I think what this actually comes down to is not that the fleet warp change itself is bad, it's that the bookmark mechanics are bad. If CCP added alliance and fleet level bookmark systems, along with a sync button on the BM screens that would instantly sync an individual's bookmarks without needing to wait 5min for the auto sync, then this change would be generally applauded.
In its current state, the bookmark system just does not and cannot provide an acceptable substitute for the fleet warp mechanic. As such, at least squad warp needs to remain.
Would not argue with this statement at all.
I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's".
Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
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poerkie
Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle
14
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 06:56:30 -
[87] - Quote
how about somewhere in the middle. remove wing/fleet warps and keep squad warps...
OR
Make alliance bookmarks or the concept with the mailing list thing |
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
160
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 09:08:04 -
[88] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:I think what this actually comes down to is not that the fleet warp change itself is bad, it's that the bookmark mechanics are bad. If CCP added alliance and fleet level bookmark systems, along with a sync button on the BM screens that would instantly sync an individual's bookmarks without needing to wait 5min for the auto sync, then this change would be generally applauded.
In its current state, the bookmark system just does not and cannot provide an acceptable substitute for the fleet warp mechanic. As such, at least squad warp needs to remain.
This would still leave everybody not just flying with his corp/alliance hanging . But yes, not having a way to force corpbookmarks to sync is way worse in wormholespace than in k. There forcing a sessionchange is easy. Here it can polarize and/or will uncloak you. |
Obil Que
Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance
343
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Posted - 2015.06.15 13:08:41 -
[89] - Quote
Just adding my two cents.
If your goal, as stated, is to put control into the hands of individual pilots then keeping fleet warp in, in any form, is probably not going to solve your problem. EVE players are, if anything, resourceful in working around mechanics to achieve their optimal result.
- Leaving fleet warp to a member - People will put a cloaky scout/target at the location desired and warp the entire fleet to them
- Fast propagating bookmarks - People will use bookmarks and warp the entire fleet to them
Even the squad warp idea, while a nice compromise, does not affect groups smaller than 10 and in many situations, especially manual multi-boxers, this will result in no change. I suspect that the manual multiboxer whether bombing, ratting, mining or whatever is a behind the scenes intended target of this change.
While probably not desired, even by myself, it seems logical to me that you should remove fleet warp altogether if these are your intended goals. In order to do this, however, you would need to
- Have fast propagating bookmarks - People will need targets to warp to and bookmarks are a must have here
- Alliance level bookmakrs -Alliances of smaller corporations need a way to coordinate
- Broadcast warp to - NPSI and ad-hoc fleets will also need this
- Tunable warp speed - Ships will need a way other than doing timing calculations to coordinate warp-ins so that faster ships aren't left out to dry.
Because I doubt that the above features are in any way in the pipe, I would offer that the suggestion to limit fleet-warp to squads is the best solution on the table currently. Much like drone assist, it limits the impact of the fleet warp to a small unit, puts control into the hands of more people, and gives you time to deal with the above features if desired. |
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
953
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Posted - 2015.06.15 15:31:47 -
[90] - Quote
I can at least accept the idea of preventing fleets from warping en-masse, so can agree to them nerfing, that. I like Phoenix Jon's idea of still allowing squad warps to anything.
The problem is for NPSI and exploration groups, fleet warp is used specifically BECAUSE not all of the fleet can warp to something. This change might not be as much of a problem if we could share warp in points. If the FC could link a bookmark or probe result, etc. as the fleet destination and then members could warp to that location, then there would be less of an issue. |
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