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Ishtar: The Heavy Drone Boat

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Anthar Thebess 1071	Posted - 2015.06.12 06:44:24 - [1] - Quote New nerf incoming , but instead of killing this hull lets just make it different. Isthar (per heavy assault cruiser skill) : 7.5% tracking increase to all drones. 5% of speed increase for Hvy drones 5% increase for EHP on heavy drones Isthar (per Gallente cruiser skill) : 7.5% of damage increase for heavy and medium drones Because we need this also Vexor Navy Issue ( per gallente cruiser skill) 7.5% of damage increase for heavy and medium drones 10% increase for EHP on heavy drones and medium drones. In both cases. Drone bay reduction from 125 m to 100m 3 Lets us not forget also about most important change. Heavy drone size reduction from 25 to 20 m3 Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Iain Cariaba 1519	Posted - 2015.06.12 15:07:13 - [2] - Quote Nerf Ishtars thread #85432221566657844. Reported as such. EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid. I couldn't have said it better. Will troll for a t-shirt.
Rivr Luzade Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi 1519	Posted - 2015.06.12 15:40:55 - [3] - Quote Iain Cariaba wrote: Nerf Ishtars thread #85432221566657844. Reported as such. Just make sure you do not report Fozzie's Dev Blog thread as well. However, I agree with the notion that Ishtars can become Heavy Drone focused. Or simply only give it Armageddon like bonuses: Damage and Hitpoints and it's done. Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
Arya Regnar Darwins Right Hand 737	Posted - 2015.06.12 15:44:12 - [4] - Quote Well it should keep 10% damage bonus on heavies... EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1181	Posted - 2015.06.12 16:23:00 - [5] - Quote so instead of having 2 battleship weapons just give 1 instead ..and then the gila will just be plain better at everything Tech 3's need to be multi-role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists. ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist, nerf sentries, -3 slots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster eagle worth using
Arya Regnar Darwins Right Hand 737	Posted - 2015.06.12 16:32:51 - [6] - Quote Harvey James wrote: so instead of having 2 battleship weapons just give 1 instead ..and then the gila will just be plain better at everything Exactly my point... Ishtar needs to keep 10% bonus on heavies. EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
McChicken Combo HalfMayo The Happy Meal 769	Posted - 2015.06.13 04:40:16 - [7] - Quote Harvey James wrote: so instead of having 2 battleship weapons just give 1 instead ..and then the gila will just be plain better at everything Pirate ships outpacing T2 is not so uncommon. The Ishtar would still have some things to offer over the Gila. Fasters drones, better tracking and T2 resist profile. There are all our dominion Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
MeBiatch GRR GOONS 2077	Posted - 2015.06.13 04:50:20 - [8] - Quote Gallente Cruiser bonuses (per skill level): 7.5% bonus to Heavy Drone max velocity and tracking speed 10% bonus to Light, Medium, and Heavy Drone hit points and damage Heavy Assault Cruisers bonuses (per skill level): 5000m bonus to Drone operation range 30 N Thrust for drones per level Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Microwarpdrive signature radius penalty 250 drone bay There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote: Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Arya Regnar Darwins Right Hand 738	Posted - 2015.06.13 05:17:33 - [9] - Quote MeBiatch wrote: Gallente Cruiser bonuses (per skill level): 10% to medium, and heavy drone tracking speed 10% bonus to light, Medium, and Heaby drone hit points 15% bonus to Medium, and Heavy Drone damage Heavy Assault Cruisers bonuses (per skill level): 5000m bonus to Drone operation range 30 N Thrust for drones per level Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Microwarpdrive signature radius penalty 250 drone bay 100mb This will turn the ishtar into a full fledged heavy ship for pve and a medium drone ship for pvp. with 4 heavies you will get 7 drone damage thats half a drone less then now but you also get a better tracking bonus, Also for pvp 8.75 eq mediums with that tracking bonus will be pretty awesome. Should keep the bonus for light drones anyway. EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Corben Arctus Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 30	Posted - 2015.06.13 05:54:29 - [10] - Quote Wouldn't mind actually, only using heavies on my ishtar these days anyway. But if this happens I'll never use sentries anymore, ever. Kind of a wasted 20 day train.
Odithia Rondass 79	Posted - 2015.06.13 07:03:12 - [11] - Quote I like these proposed changes. It is important that the Ishtar and VNI don't have a bigger drone bay than the Myrmidon.
Lyra Gerie Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 51	Posted - 2015.06.13 07:22:29 - [12] - Quote I dont know the exact numbers but i've been saying this since the first issues with the Ishtar. This ship needs to be heavy drone focused rather than sentry. It fixes almost all the issues. Drone travel time gives defenders time to organize a defense (shooting the drones, repositioning on field or getting smart bomb screens in place) Further there is no instant damage Close proximity to the target leaves the drones far more open to attack Even in close combat like wormholes it would only be another strong ship in a long line of strong small gang ships used in wormhole space. Gallente is supposed to have brawling ships anyways and this fits perfectly.
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 34	Posted - 2015.06.13 10:17:13 - [13] - Quote Instead of focusing to the Ishtar, why not focusing on the other HACs ? I mean, if the Ishtar is chosen among its equivalents, it's not ONLY cause of its Sentry bonus but because it's also fast, agile, no ammo dependent and good damage projection. When you look at the Zealot, it has damage projection, but is kinda stuck to its armor tanking and though, not agile and fast at all. When you look at the Vagabon, it has agility and speed, but kinda lack some fleet oriented bonuses (Shield boost bonus is awsome for small gangs / solo) AND lack some damage projection unless you go for 750mm Arties with Tremor loaded but then you'll have to sacrifice some tank or damage, and ... Tremor... :x Eagle is the only one who can compete. So the answer would be to buff or re-balance / re-build the other HACs and stop focusing on the Ishtar.
Odithia Rondass 79	Posted - 2015.06.13 11:48:00 - [14] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: Instead of focusing to the Ishtar, why not focusing on the other HACs ? I mean, if the Ishtar is chosen among its equivalents, it's not ONLY cause of its Sentry bonus but because it's also fast, agile, no ammo dependent and good damage projection. When you look at the Zealot, it has damage projection, but is kinda stuck to its armor tanking and though, not agile and fast at all. When you look at the Vagabon, it has agility and speed, but kinda lack some fleet oriented bonuses (Shield boost bonus is awsome for small gangs / solo) AND lack some damage projection unless you go for 750mm Arties with Tremor loaded but then you'll have to sacrifice some tank or damage, and ... Tremor... :x Eagle is the only one who can compete. So the answer would be to buff or re-balance / re-build the other HACs and stop focusing on the Ishtar. Yea buff every HAC to ishtar level of dps and make every t1 BC and BS obsolete...
Baali Tekitsu AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse 787	Posted - 2015.06.13 12:27:16 - [15] - Quote I would wait until the stats are released before drawing any conclusions. RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 313	Posted - 2015.06.13 12:38:34 - [16] - Quote You do realize the ishtar is supposed to have range right? Look at the other HACs, they all have range bonuses and are relatively slow for that role. They're sniper ships. Muninn = Optimal bonus Zealot = optimal bonus Eagle = x2 optimal bonus Ishtar = optimal bonus All these ships are supposed to project damage. You take away the ishtar's sentries, and it will become useless in the role it was designed for. I don't think the dps can be nerfed anymore without severely affecting the ishtar's abilities in other roles (armor brawlers, with heavies). Ideally a medium sized sentry drone that could be balanced around the other HAC's ranges/dps would probably be best. But CCP seems to ignore this proposal. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 16175	Posted - 2015.06.13 12:45:42 - [17] - Quote Remove sentry drones from cruisers. Done. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 34	Posted - 2015.06.13 13:39:54 - [18] - Quote Odithia wrote: Yea buff every HAC to ishtar level of dps and make every t1 BC and BS obsolete... i said rebuild / rebalance. The Ishtar is popular not only for its Sentry capacity, but for multiple advantages combined in one single hull. Stitch Kaneland wrote: You do realize the ishtar is supposed to have range right? Look at the other HACs, they all have range bonuses and are relatively slow for that role. They're sniper ships. Muninn = Optimal bonus Zealot = optimal bonus Eagle = x2 optimal bonus Ishtar = optimal bonus All these ships are supposed to project damage. You take away the ishtar's sentries, and it will become useless in the role it was designed for. I don't think the dps can be nerfed anymore without severely affecting the ishtar's abilities in other roles (armor brawlers, with heavies). Ideally a medium sized sentry drone that could be balanced around the other HAC's ranges/dps would probably be best. But CCP seems to ignore this proposal. Actually there are 2 kinds of Hac a light one and a heavier one, munin and eagle are the heavier ones. Light HACs are Zealot, Vagabon, Ishtar, Cerberus. For the range, Ishtar could have a Bonus to heavy drone control range and speed : problem solved. And just do that : baltec1 wrote: Remove sentry drones from cruisers. Done.
Hemmo Paskiainen 481	Posted - 2015.06.13 13:43:29 - [19] - Quote nooo, just nerf it back to uselessness. Its better for everyone! "Relativity equals time plus momentum: if it can be erased by a single click on a button, would it be worth spending your time?"
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 1095	Posted - 2015.06.13 13:59:46 - [20] - Quote Hemmo Paskiainen wrote: nooo, just nerf it back to uselessness. Its better for everyone! I feel the deep rooted truth in your statement is probably lost on you.
MeBiatch GRR GOONS 2078	Posted - 2015.06.13 14:01:22 - [21] - Quote Anthar Thebess wrote: Heavy drone size reduction from 25 to 20 m3 Huh thats actually a really good idea! would be a awesome boost to the myrm too! maybe up the prophesy drone mb to 80 so it can use 4 heavies instead of just the lackluster 3. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote: Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1182	Posted - 2015.06.13 14:05:08 - [22] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Remove sentry drones from cruisers. Done. unlikely too happen and not sure i like removing any option of LR drones on them, options for nerfing ishtar - remove optimal range bonus on sentries - reduce dronebay to 250 - remove tracking bonus on sentries - detach all drone HP bonuses from damage bonuses on all droneships - make all droneboats have -3 slots too limit versatility in highslots and act as a strong drawback for not having too use highs for dps Tech 3's need to be multi-role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists. ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist, nerf sentries, -3 slots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster eagle worth using
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 1096	Posted - 2015.06.13 14:39:08 - [23] - Quote Harvey James wrote: baltec1 wrote: Remove sentry drones from cruisers. Done. unlikely too happen and not sure i like removing any option of LR drones on them, options for nerfing ishtar - remove optimal range bonus on sentries - reduce dronebay to 250 - remove tracking bonus on sentries - detach all drone HP bonuses from damage bonuses on all droneships - make all droneboats have -3 slots too limit versatility in highslots and act as a strong drawback for not having too use highs for dps I think it's likely. When they added the drone modules to the game they gave a huge boost to sentry wielding cruisers. That is where the problem stems from. There a 3 paths to stopping overpowered high speed small signature kiting sentry cruisers. (I'll use ishtar for brevity, but you know the crowd I'm referring to) 1. Totally nerf the hulls - making them useless but allowing them to keep sentries (I'll vote not good) 2. Totally nerf the modules that boost drones across the board - bringing the ishtar back in line but collaterally trashing the value of every non ishtar deployed drone in the game. (I'll vote not good) 3. Make sentry drones BS only - The out of ballance added by drone modules gets repaire AND as an added bonus the archon sentry crap gets fixed for free. (It feels wierd and ichy but I'm going to vote w/ Baltec1 on this - you get a yes from me) Keep in mind, no one is complaining that ishtars dropping preators is OP - it's that they are dropping sentries and doing their thing. Cruisers dropping sentries is the problem, not the hull, not the drone range, not the drone tracking, not sig radius, not band width and not the number of slots.
MeBiatch GRR GOONS 2078	Posted - 2015.06.13 14:56:49 - [24] - Quote Harvey James wrote: baltec1 wrote: Remove sentry drones from cruisers. Done. unlikely too happen and not sure i like removing any option of LR drones on them, options for nerfing ishtar - remove optimal range bonus on sentries - reduce dronebay to 250 - remove tracking bonus on sentries - detach all drone HP bonuses from damage bonuses on all droneships - make all droneboats have -3 slots too limit versatility in highslots and act as a strong drawback for not having too use highs for dps JUST PUTTING it out there but... small and medium sentry drones. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote: Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 313	Posted - 2015.06.13 15:09:20 - [25] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: Odithia wrote: Yea buff every HAC to ishtar level of dps and make every t1 BC and BS obsolete... i said rebuild / rebalance. The Ishtar is popular not only for its Sentry capacity, but for multiple advantages combined in one single hull. Stitch Kaneland wrote: You do realize the ishtar is supposed to have range right? Look at the other HACs, they all have range bonuses and are relatively slow for that role. They're sniper ships. Muninn = Optimal bonus Zealot = optimal bonus Eagle = x2 optimal bonus Ishtar = optimal bonus All these ships are supposed to project damage. You take away the ishtar's sentries, and it will become useless in the role it was designed for. I don't think the dps can be nerfed anymore without severely affecting the ishtar's abilities in other roles (armor brawlers, with heavies). Ideally a medium sized sentry drone that could be balanced around the other HAC's ranges/dps would probably be best. But CCP seems to ignore this proposal. Actually there are 2 kinds of Hac a light one and a heavier one, munin and eagle are the heavier ones. Light HACs are Zealot, Vagabon, Ishtar, Cerberus. With such a list set, you realise that each one has good points and bad points, except the Ishtar which combines all good points. For range, Ishtar could have a Bonus to heavy drone control range and speed : problem solved. And just do that : baltec1 wrote: Remove sentry drones from cruisers. Done. Yes, interesting suggestion, but how ? I agree that the ishtar is too good in most of its roles (although dual rep armor brawler is ok). That being said, i wouldnt classify HACs on heavy and light. As if you do that youre wrong. The deimos is gallente's "light" HAC. Not the ishtar. 4 HACs are bonused more in a fleet/long range role (muninn, eagle, ishtar, zealot). These are slower, have range and in some cases tracking bonuses as well as small drone bays (except ishtar). Then we have the other 4 HACs that fall more into a skirmishing role. Better at small gangs/solo. Vagabond/deimos/sac/cerb. These are faster, have better drone compliments, and in some cases have bonuses to local reps/tank. It could be argued that sac/cerb could fit either role, but missiles are garbage in fleets atm. Maybe things will improve with next patch in that regard. So again, droppimg the sentries on the ishtar would mean it cannot project and would obsolete its role completely. And trying to uses heavies in a fleet setting would be murdered by smartbombs. It would still be an on ok skirmisher, but then gal loses their fleet orientated HAC. Im fairly certain a rail deimos would not be a valid fleet doctrine. To clarify, id like to see the ishtar nerfed too. But dont want to neuter it completely. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 34	Posted - 2015.06.13 15:19:30 - [26] - Quote Stitch Kaneland wrote: I agree that the ishtar is too good in most of its roles (although dual rep armor brawler is ok). That being said, i wouldnt classify HACs on heavy and light. As if you do that youre wrong. The deimos is gallente's "light" HAC. Not the ishtar. 4 HACs are bonused more in a fleet/long range role (muninn, eagle, ishtar, zealot). These are slower, have range and in some cases tracking bonuses as well as small drone bays (except ishtar). Then we have the other 4 HACs that fall more into a skirmishing role. Better at small gangs/solo. Vagabond/deimos/sac/cerb. These are faster, have better drone compliments, and in some cases have bonuses to local reps/tank. It could be argued that sac/cerb could fit either role, but missiles are garbage in fleets atm. Maybe things will improve with next patch in that regard. So again, droppimg the sentries on the ishtar would mean it cannot project and would obsolete its role completely. And trying to uses heavies in a fleet setting would be murdered by smartbombs. It would still be an on ok skirmisher, but then gal loses their fleet orientated HAC. Im fairly certain a rail deimos would not be a valid fleet doctrine. To clarify, id like to see the ishtar nerfed too. But dont want to neuter it completely. Sacrilege ? Faster ? lol ? It's as simple as which hull has a HIC equivalent version. Eagle and Munin has, not Vagabon and Cerb. :)
Odithia Rondass 79	Posted - 2015.06.13 15:33:57 - [27] - Quote Tricky with Gallente has the Vexor and Thorax had their roles swapped on module tiericide. Thus the T2 variant losing consistency with T1 hull.
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 313	Posted - 2015.06.13 15:43:18 - [28] - Quote Cleanse Serce wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: I agree that the ishtar is too good in most of its roles (although dual rep armor brawler is ok). That being said, i wouldnt classify HACs on heavy and light. As if you do that youre wrong. The deimos is gallente's "light" HAC. Not the ishtar. 4 HACs are bonused more in a fleet/long range role (muninn, eagle, ishtar, zealot). These are slower, have range and in some cases tracking bonuses as well as small drone bays (except ishtar). Then we have the other 4 HACs that fall more into a skirmishing role. Better at small gangs/solo. Vagabond/deimos/sac/cerb. These are faster, have better drone compliments, and in some cases have bonuses to local reps/tank. It could be argued that sac/cerb could fit either role, but missiles are garbage in fleets atm. Maybe things will improve with next patch in that regard. So again, droppimg the sentries on the ishtar would mean it cannot project and would obsolete its role completely. And trying to uses heavies in a fleet setting would be murdered by smartbombs. It would still be an on ok skirmisher, but then gal loses their fleet orientated HAC. Im fairly certain a rail deimos would not be a valid fleet doctrine. To clarify, id like to see the ishtar nerfed too. But dont want to neuter it completely. Sacrilege ? Faster ? lol ? It's as simple as which hull has a HIC equivalent version. Eagle and Munin has, not Vagabon and Cerb. :) Ok its slower by 13 m/s, not exactly a huge difference... the sac also has a 50m3 drone bay. How much does the zealot have? Have you seen/heard of a sac fleet doctrine? No? But im sure youve heard about zealot fleet/gang doctrines (ARMOR HAC! /shadoo). Have you seen solo zealots? No. Have you seen solo sac? I have, and a dual armor rep fit can still do some serious tanking and shoot out 550+ dps. Certain hacs were designed to project dps in a fleet. Others better at skirmishing in a solo/small gang role. I also did mention that the sac/cerb could be used in either role, BUT missiles are prerry terrible in current fleet meta, and cerb is kinetic locked to add on to it. Cerb vs ishtar would not end well. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 34	Posted - 2015.06.13 15:55:28 - [29] - Quote Stitch Kaneland wrote: Ok its slower by 13 m/s, not exactly a huge difference... the sac also has a 50m3 drone bay. How much does the zealot have? Have you seen/heard of a sac fleet doctrine? No? But im sure youve heard about zealot fleet/gang doctrines (ARMOR HAC! /shadoo). Have you seen solo zealots? No. Have you seen solo sac? I have, and a dual armor rep fit can still do some serious tanking and shoot out 550+ dps. Certain hacs were designed to project dps in a fleet. Others better at skirmishing in a solo/small gang role. I also did mention that the sac/cerb could be used in either role, BUT missiles are prerry terrible in current fleet meta, and cerb is kinetic locked to add on to it. Cerb vs ishtar would not end well. Yes i heard and participated in a Sac/Zealot fleet with guardians and eWar support. I've seen solo Sac, i've seen solo Zealot too. I think you're doing it wrong by classifying hulls wether they can fit a skirmish role or not. Skirmish is based on fit, and fits can be manipulated a bilion times. Fleet on the other hand have much more restrictions, that's why a Deimos or a Vagabon in fleet will only have an specific role, such as Anti-Support for example and no room in the core Doctrine. I just based my statement on which hull has a HIC version. The only issue is Gallente as mentioned above.
Cleanse Serce Lonesome Capsuleer 34	Posted - 2015.06.13 15:56:15 - [30] - Quote hum sry wrong editing please delete

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