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AeonOfTime
Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate
94
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Posted - 2015.06.12 10:27:25 -
[1] - Quote
After realizing how many players do not know what an undock bookmark is, I wrote up a small guide on bookmarking that delves into creating undock bookmarks, as well as docking bookmarks.
Bookmarking guide
An extension to the guide for safespot bookmarks is planned as well, which is the logical step after the docking bookmarks.
As always, input is appreciated - especially if I am talking nonsense again
Lone wolf and nomad extraordinaire. eve.aeonoftime.com
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10033
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Posted - 2015.06.12 10:28:57 -
[2] - Quote
AeonOfTime wrote:After realizing how many players do not know what an undock bookmark is, I wrote up a small guide on bookmarking that delves into creating undock bookmarks, as well as docking bookmarks. Bookmarking guideAn extension to the guide for safespot bookmarks is planned as well, which is the logical step after the docking bookmarks. As always, input is appreciated - especially if I am talking nonsense again This would go down well in citizens q&a
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AeonOfTime
Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate
95
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Posted - 2015.06.12 10:38:52 -
[3] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:This would go down well in citizens q&a
Ah, I had a look in the forums first to see if there was a general help/info channel but I must have overlooked that. I'll check it out and post there as well. Thanks!
Lone wolf and nomad extraordinaire. eve.aeonoftime.com
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Stacy Lone
University of Caille Gallente Federation
84
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Posted - 2015.06.12 11:25:25 -
[4] - Quote
I aprreciate the effort, but some of the information in that guide is either misleading or wrong.
First of all, undoking. You have a slight window of invulnerability when undocking. If you have a proper insta-undock, you *can not* be caught on undock no matter what ship you are flying. While this part of your guide is quite good, this is worth mentioning.
Secondly, docking. This par of your guide is only half-true. Yes, it is harder to catch you when you warp in from unkown locations, but that is not the point.
The point is, NEVER warp to 0 at a station. No matter what direction you come from. The warp-in spots on some stations are severely screwed up, leading you to come out several km from the docking spots in some cases.
Instead, create a docking BM that will always land you at the station so that you can dock instantly. Using such a BM makes it irrelevant from which direction you are coming (except for 0.0 with bubbles). Before any attacker can lock you you are already in the docking procedure and invulnerable. |
AeonOfTime
Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate
97
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Posted - 2015.06.12 11:36:07 -
[5] - Quote
Stacy Lone wrote:I aprreciate the effort, but some of the information in that guide is either misleading or wrong.
First of all, undoking. You have a slight window of invulnerability when undocking. If you have a proper insta-undock, you *can not* be caught on undock no matter what ship you are flying. While this part of your guide is quite good, this is worth mentioning.
Secondly, docking. This par of your guide is only half-true. Yes, it is harder to catch you when you warp in from unkown locations, but that is not the point.
The point is, NEVER warp to 0 at a station. No matter what direction you come from. The warp-in spots on some stations are severely screwed up, leading you to come out several km from the docking spots in some cases.
Instead, create a docking BM that will always land you at the station so that you can dock instantly. Using such a BM makes it irrelevant from which direction you are coming (except for 0.0 with bubbles). Before any attacker can lock you you are already in the docking procedure and invulnerable.
Thanks a lot for the feedback, Stacy. You're right, I'll add the period of invulnerability to the guide.
As for the docking, I learned something new. I'll test it tonight, and add some info on that as well.
I remember having to approach a station to dock after warping to 0, but I assumed it was because of the warp not being that precise. For instance, it happened more often with larger ships than small ones, and it did not happen every time. Then again it hs been some time since I had a station like that, so I'll take your word for it.
Lone wolf and nomad extraordinaire. eve.aeonoftime.com
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Stacy Lone
University of Caille Gallente Federation
85
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Posted - 2015.06.12 12:05:53 -
[6] - Quote
AeonOfTime wrote: I remember having to approach a station to dock after warping to 0, but I assumed it was because of the warp not being that precise. For instance, it happened more often with larger ships than small ones, and it did not happen every time. Then again it hs been some time since I had a station like that, so I'll take your word for it.
Yes, that is part of the problem. A proper docking BM however is closer to the station then the spot that is used for the warp to zero, and will allow you to instanly dock in any ship (even freighters). This technique is also used to create cyno spots so that you can cyno to it and dock up.
getting such a BM right can be a pain in the ass, though, and is definitely more difficult then creating insta-undocks. |
AeonOfTime
Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate
97
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Posted - 2015.06.12 12:10:55 -
[7] - Quote
Stacy Lone wrote:AeonOfTime wrote: I remember having to approach a station to dock after warping to 0, but I assumed it was because of the warp not being that precise. For instance, it happened more often with larger ships than small ones, and it did not happen every time. Then again it hs been some time since I had a station like that, so I'll take your word for it.
Yes, that is part of the problem. A proper docking BM however is closer to the station then the spot that is used for the warp to zero, and will allow you to instanly dock in any ship (even freighters). This technique is also used to create cyno spots so that you can cyno to it and dock up. getting such a BM right can be a pain in the ass, though, and is definitely more difficult then creating insta-undocks.
Okay, so basically you just approach the station as close as you can? That would best be done with a small ship like a frigate then, I can remember flying through and around stations in my burst when I started playing.
Lone wolf and nomad extraordinaire. eve.aeonoftime.com
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Stacy Lone
University of Caille Gallente Federation
85
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Posted - 2015.06.12 12:15:05 -
[8] - Quote
I mostly warp to zero, then approach the station, then wait a few seconds after the distance goes to 0, then create the BM. Then I undock and verify that it works as expected by warping to it several times. |
AeonOfTime
Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate
97
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Posted - 2015.06.12 12:18:30 -
[9] - Quote
Stacy Lone wrote:I mostly warp to zero, then approach the station, then wait a few seconds after the distance goes to 0, then create the BM. Then I undock and verify that it works as expected by warping to it several times.
Okay, thanks a bundle - I'll try that tonight and add it to the guide :)
I already added the invulnerability bit.
Lone wolf and nomad extraordinaire. eve.aeonoftime.com
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10038
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Posted - 2015.06.12 12:34:43 -
[10] - Quote
Furthermore, if your destination is set to the station with this bookmark you can activate your autopilot mid warp to the bookmark and it will send the docking requests either on or after the server tic you exit warp, this is much faster than actually clicking dock yourself.
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Dungheap
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.06.12 20:02:31 -
[11] - Quote
many stations have their undock directly aligned to a celestial object . these can save a lot of time and give you far more range to make your bookmark . for the 4-4 navy station in jita , it's P4M1 .
i don't like your advice for docking bookmark ; bouncing off a planet gives hostiles more time to prepare for you coming on the station grid . a fast-locking ship that can cover the whole docking ring can still pop you regardless of where you land on the station .
this is how to make and use so-called 'invulna-dock' bookmarks :
make a bookmark inside the station perimeter; fly underneath in a shuttle and tuck yourself up tight into the superstructure , make your bookmark . to use the bookmark , click on the station , so it's in your selected items box . use your dock bookmark , and quickly click the 'dock' icon in selected items box . you will get 'you cannot do that while warping' error message . done correctly , your docking command is loaded , and you become invulnerable and begin docking as soon as you exit warp . if you wait too long , you'll get "you are in a warp" error message , and must click dock again when you come out of warp .
thanks for taking the time to make a guide ; could you add a part on how to auto-warp your pod ? for the noobs of course :)
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
4024
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Posted - 2015.06.12 20:12:38 -
[12] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Furthermore, if your destination is set to the station with this bookmark you can activate your autopilot mid warp to the bookmark and it will send the docking requests either on or after the server tic you exit warp, this is much faster than actually clicking dock yourself. True but you have 10 seconds of invulnerability after exiting warp, so you can take your time and tease the wannabe instalockers.
You break your invulnerability the moment you click 'dock', but then you dock :) so you're safe.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
21861
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Posted - 2015.06.12 20:24:08 -
[13] - Quote
Its just a little thing I like to do, but I like to name my Insta-Undocks and Insta-docks with "*" as in "***Insta-Undock***" and "**Insta-Dock**". That way, the undock and docking bookmarks appear as the first and second thing on the right-click menu.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
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Otso Bakarti
Filial Pariahs
239
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Posted - 2015.06.13 00:54:54 -
[14] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Its just a little thing I like to do, but I like to name my Insta-Undocks and Insta-docks with "*" as in "***Insta-Undock***" and "**Insta-Dock**". That way, the undock and docking bookmarks appear as the first and second thing on the right-click menu. I like pecans in my chocolate chip cookies.
I survived Win95
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Exotic Matters
Fried Liver Attack
49
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Posted - 2015.06.13 01:04:33 -
[15] - Quote
I would care to differ with the person who said insta-undocks always work. I have on more than one occasion undocked and ran into another ship, knocking me out of alignment before I could warp. This usually happens with a faster ship like a BR that overtakes and runs into a freighter. Perhaps sometimes someone is sitting on the undock for just this purpose, IDK, luckily I've never been attacked during this moment of vulnerability. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
38057
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Posted - 2015.06.13 02:40:40 -
[16] - Quote
Exotic Matters wrote:Now if I could just figure out an easy way to name tactical bookmarks off of gates and stations that I could easily know/remember where they are when I am offgrid. This still works well for that:
http://www.evealtruist.com/2011/04/bookmarks-and-you.html
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Le Moineau
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
53
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Posted - 2015.06.13 10:01:45 -
[17] - Quote
One thing I do is vary the distances I make my insta undock BMs.
For example most of my undock Bms are at 300 km or better. I have seen scan ships and gank ships out at 150 km waiting for ships to insta undock. |
Faenir Antollare
The Idiot Kings Get Off My Lawn
376
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Posted - 2015.06.13 11:06:16 -
[18] - Quote
The very best advice out there for your personal bookmarks is to have a naming convention that is both easily and instantly understandable the moment that you use your right click contextual menu. Adversaries have not one sheet given that you might need a few secs to sort through just so as to discover which one it is that you might actually want to use.
RiP BooBoo
26/7/1971 - 23/7/2014
My Lady My Love My Life My Wife
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Nevil Oscillator
203
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Posted - 2015.06.13 14:17:09 -
[19] - Quote
Is there not a slight variation with the angle with which a ship undocks each time, hence the error in location position ? |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10052
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Posted - 2015.06.13 15:02:11 -
[20] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:Is there not a slight variation with the angle with which a ship undocks each time, hence the error in location position ? there is but you only begin to drift after a couple of seconds.
when you load grid you are pointed in the "true" straight line, you can ctrl-space to stop then set full speed and you get the perfect line
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Stacy Lone
University of Caille Gallente Federation
86
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Posted - 2015.06.13 15:42:59 -
[21] - Quote
Le Moineau wrote:One thing I do is vary the distances I make my insta undock BMs.
For example most of my undock Bms are at 300 km or better. I have seen scan ships and gank ships out at 150 km waiting for ships to insta undock.
Best is having a BM that is off grid with the station. For Jita 4-4, this means 1000km or more (Jita 4-4 grid is sometimes HUGE). In Amarr, you often get away with ~300-450km.
For "normal" activities (not hauling expensive stuff or blingy ships) 300km is fine, tho. |
AeonOfTime
Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate
99
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Posted - 2015.06.13 16:07:04 -
[22] - Quote
Thanks a bundle for all the great feedback folks, I updated the guide and rewrote the docking bookmarks section entirely.
Lone wolf and nomad extraordinaire. eve.aeonoftime.com
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Nevil Oscillator
203
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Posted - 2015.06.13 18:54:10 -
[23] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Nevil Oscillator wrote:Is there not a slight variation with the angle with which a ship undocks each time, hence the error in location position ? there is but you only begin to drift after a couple of seconds. when you load grid you are pointed in the "true" straight line, you can ctrl-space to stop then set full speed and you get the perfect line
It's caused by drift while moving ? that's interesting, I will have to look at that again.
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lost packet
GamCorp Almost Broken
56
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Posted - 2015.06.14 00:37:49 -
[24] - Quote
Oneof the best guides I've seen was the Agony Unleashed one:
http://www.agony-unleashed.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bookmarks
Almost Broken corporation and pilot recruitment: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=427393
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Falken Falcon
31989
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Posted - 2015.06.15 07:50:32 -
[25] - Quote
Stacy Lone wrote:A proper docking BM however is closer to the station then the spot that is used for the warp to zero, and will allow you to instanly dock in any ship (even freighters). This technique is also used to create cyno spots so that you can cyno to it and dock up. To add to this. On warps the area where you land is 2.5km at maximum, but with jump drives the area is around 5km. You have to make sure when you are cynoing on a station that the docking circle covers 5km+ past the cynoer to make sure that the capital/blops does not land outside docking range.
Also in addition when the capital/blops lands it will have session change timer of 10 seconds. You will have to make sure that you are still as far as possible from the station collision model in order the capital not to bump off range within that 10 seconds. The docking circle is a perfect ball around the station model. You have to find the 'empty' spot in that circle. The best station to cyno in to is the gallente outpost as it is very high, but narrow so it is easy to find the cyno spot next to the shaft. You have to try to be 5km off the station model, but if it is not possible it is always better to land too near the station than outside the range. The optimal spot for the cyno is +5km from the edge of the docking circle and the station model. Easiest way is to check how far you are from the station model is the tactical grid thing (Don't remember the name, but the thing that shows the circle ranges).
Aye, Sea Turtles
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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1791
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Posted - 2015.06.15 23:12:23 -
[26] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:Is there not a slight variation with the angle with which a ship undocks each time, hence the error in location position ? This is correct. You exit the station within a 5 degree cone of the undock direction. Being aligned enough for warp means your velocity vector is within 5 degrees of the spot being warped to so if the undock bookmark is set up correctly you should be fine.
Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
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Nicholas Kirk
GFL Gentlemen's.Parlor
2
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Posted - 2015.06.16 06:53:58 -
[27] - Quote
There is a misnomer when using the term insta-warp undock book mark
If you have a straight and true line of site off the dock to your BM you are heading in the right direction (pun intended)
using it is unfortunately an not all there is to insta-undock warp
there are 6 ways of using the undock BM and only 1 offers the insta- warp
I'll put it this way. I have a high end dual GPU 4 monitor gaming rig and 80% of the time I land at my 1200km distant BM before my screen draws after it goes black from leaving the station with almost any ship
you have described nothing in the manual showing insta-warp and how to use other than BM
other wise you can still be bumped and fail to warp quickly (notice I said quickly and not instantly)
Lets see how many others know about it (I suspect they don't tell many)
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