Thoughts?

I think you need to do more research before making assumptions, and basing bad ideas off those assumptions.

Golem
Vargur
Paladin
Kronos

I see lots and lots of lowsec, nullsec, and wormhole activity using marauders. The facts don't back up your assumptions.

I'm not sure what your links are trying to say. It looks like you are saying 3 - 5 get ganked per day and 1-4 are in a fleet that gets some kills each day. 1 marauder in a 30 man fleet putting up 10 pos module kills counts as 1 marauder being used. Once you pick through the provided data - you're proving they aren't popular pvp boats (low number being on kills) and they aren't being used for pve all that much (based on a daily average of 5 being ganked).

You put up the right links, you're just way off on your conclusions.

Most people dont like to pvp in multi billion isk ships, even fewer will pvp in anything larger than a cruiser.

Most people dont like to pvp in multi billion isk ships, even fewer will pvp in anything larger than a cruiser.

The intent isn't directed at PVP, though it does have a positive addition towards PVP.

The intent is to make them more valuable in insecure PVE content, which is part of their description.

I'm on a cell phone, so I'm not going to copy paste it.
With Bastion, they have become a top notch ship for PVE content, however, their lack of mobility makes them a lackluster choice when compared to any other PVE capable BS, specifically in potentially hostile territory.

In regards to another comment up the list, yes, Marauders are used in PVP and PVE outside of high sec.
However, their effectiveness in PVE is limited to Bastion, and more specifically, secure space.
Low, wh, and null doesn't mean the space is insecure. With proper Intel and security, you'll be fine.
That said, I'm speaking more specifically about uncontrolled territory, such as NPC pirate space, small corp WHs, and low sec outside of relative player control.

The issue they have with pve is that the vindi can do a better job at killing NPCs in anoms and because it doesn't have bastion it can warp to the next site faster than a kronos.

Sure, there's some structure bashing going on there, and why the hell not? Marauders make great ships for bashing structures with their high dps in bastion, and not a whole lot of need to move for a while.

I think you need to read through the bastion bonuses or go fly a Marauder for a bit. All four Marauders do just as much dps in Bastion as they do out of Bastion. The bonus that gets applied to them in Bastion is range and tank. This allows short range weapons to hit farther and long range weapons to hit out the the lock limit, as well as give them a great active tank. There is nothing in there about getting better damage, nor do I think they should become mini-dreadnaughts.

As far as Dscan immunity, its a no from me. That sounds strictly like a recon attribute which Combat Recons have, Marauders sound like tactical placement boats for large fights with the Bastion being one min long and the MJD having a cooldown of 56 secs.

The only problem that arises from that is the ability to scram them down during jump which leaves them sitting like a gun turret unable to move or do anything but soak damage. If they got the ability to jump while under scram they would hold their tactical placement role and would be the only ship to use the MJD to full power. Of course this new ability should come at a cost, I will leave everyone or CCP to find out what they think is fair for that.

I'm sorry, but having used marauders for PvE as well as (involuntary) PvP in high and low, I think that there is absolutely no need for such a change. Not quite willing to try to get them back out of null because of the potential issues with landing in a gate camp exiting a system.

Marauders are extremely good with the introduction of Bastion...

However, they're still not that popular in less secure areas of space, due to their large sig, lack of mobility, and being stuck in bastion for 1min cycles.
These areas of space would, more specifically be, non-secure SOV, WH space, and most of low sec.

All that said, I would think that (based on their description) these ships should be given something that allows them to better perform in all areas, without making them OP.


This idea was based on watching a player performing PVE in a Curse, though he and we are aware it's not the best ship for PVE.

With that in mind, what if we gave Marauders immunity to D-scan?
These ships are extremely easy to probe down, so it's not like they're invulnerable, but it would give them more survivability that could potentially give them enough time to break bastion and GTFO..




Thoughts?

I think you need to read through the bastion bonuses or go fly a Marauder for a bit. All four Marauders do just as much dps in Bastion as they do out of Bastion. The bonus that gets applied to them in Bastion is range and tank. This allows short range weapons to hit farther and long range weapons to hit out the the lock limit, as well as give them a great active tank. There is nothing in there about getting better damage, nor do I think they should become mini-dreadnaughts.

I think you're giving d-scan immunity too much credit, especially in the case of Marauders, and Especially when you consider Bastion increases sig radius.

See, all it would take is to drop combat probes and you'd likely know what type of ship they were with one scan.
Their large sig makes them extremely easy to scan down.
This would just give them some security from people that don't think to probe.

Bastion mode does not increase signature radius. Nor is their signature radius that high compared to other battleships. It's their sensor strength that sucks - a Kronos has half the sensor strength of a Vindicator. That makes them relatively easier to probe down.

No, just give it up. Marauders are just fine.

I'd welcome a change to make them more reasonable to use for PVE in hostile areas but I don't think d-scan immunity is that change.

How about a sharp increase in sensor strength when Bastion Mode is active?

Which is part of why I'm suggesting they be given this ability as a balancing factor.
There are many reasons to pick any other ship over a marauder.
Ewar immunity is the only reason to pick a marauder over anything else.
Give it d-scan immunity and it will be much more competitive.

I'm actually thinking the same thing. Call me crazy, but the idea of dscan immunity on Marauders just sounds funky and weird and out of place. Making it take longer to scan them down while in bastion mode sounds to me better that trying to outright hide them. They are not stealth boats like recons but having them have bastion module related avionics that can overload probe sensors making it harder for them to get a lock on them seems to fit better.

My 2 isk.

Oh, this is good also. +1. They definitely need somehing like this at least to make it more worth while trying to use them outside Hi-Sec, or it's back to the Baddon we go.

They already have so many toys to play with. D-scan immunity is something powerful in its own right and belt left as a party trick for a new line of battleships.

Paladin is really the only good PvE Marauder if you're shooting at Amarr/Sansha rats because it's immune to TDs and when the rats do EM damage you can't get away with **** like shield tanking a typhoon fleet issue with six damage mods.

I beg to differ. Vargurs and golems both work great against EM damage, and can get away with a 3 slot tank pretty much regardless. Especially the vargur, because with just hull and damage control, it's a lovely 34.4%, and bastion brings it to 53.4, and a cheapish gist C LSB is just shy of stable and gives a 550 DPS omni tank with no other modules fit.