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Kali Release - To early!

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 13 post(s)
sidthesexist Caldari Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.24 10:20:00 - [1] Dear CCP I believe the Kali release is way to early. After being on the test server and finding numerous bugs, quite a few cosmetic and some game-stopping, i believe that you are jumping the gun with the Kali release. Sharkbait said only yesterday after the 2nd stress test that two major bugs were discovered that CCP knew nothing about, and please forgive me for saying this but i don't believe kali will be released in a hugely improved format to the dragon code. I would rather wait two more weeks within which extensive testing is done on the new kali code and allot more bugs are found and fixed rather than Kali be released and have to go through an entire month of server-outages and constant re-boots to apply hot fixes to bugs not found. Please re-think this release date. Regards ________ Euphoria Released
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.24 10:22:00 - [2] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 24/11/2006 10:22:40 You do know that those bugs most likely are in the TQ build as well, right? :) I dont think ccp would go ahead with this unless they knew that Kali is actually better than Dragon even with some bugs still remaining. So just relax. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
sidthesexist Caldari Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.24 10:24:00 - [3] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 24/11/2006 10:22:40 You do know that those bugs most likely are in the TQ build as well, right? :) I dont think ccp would go ahead with this unless they knew that Kali is actually better than Dragon even with some bugs still remaining. So just relax. :) Thats the point, good business ethics is not releasing something until those bugs are quashed. As for Kali being better than dragon, well go on the test server and check the lag with 200 people, its not a huge improvement if any at all. ________ Euphoria Released
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.24 10:25:00 - [4] From what ive heard from people taking part in the stress tests, Kali is actually a huge improvement. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Xykanth Roldeir	Posted - 2006.11.24 10:26:00 - [5] Even CCP has said that with any major release there are always new bugs found. Maybe we should create a betting pool on the number of patches that will be issued in the month of December to deal with the new content.
sidthesexist Caldari Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.24 10:27:00 - [6] Originally by: Jim McGregor From what ive heard from people taking part in the stress tests, Kali is actually a huge improvement. People believe what they want to believe, i took part in that stress test and its not a huge improvement if any to be honest. Allocated nodes and the rest of it in the background. There are still MAJOR bugs being found which in my eyes is great cause for concern and is the reason it should be set back a week or two. ________ Euphoria Released
Sakura Nihil Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.24 10:28:00 - [7] The lag is more tolerable I've found on the Revelations test server. We'll see if it holds up on TQ soon, won't we?
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.24 10:29:00 - [8] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 24/11/2006 10:32:02 Originally by: Xykanth Roldeir Even CCP has said that with any major release there are always new bugs found. Maybe we should create a betting pool on the number of patches that will be issued in the month of December to deal with the new content. Development -> Bugs -> Development -> Bugs etc. Its a natural part of software engineering tbh. And the game MUST evolve to stay competitive on the market, not to mention remain interesting for people to play. This means bugs as well as features. There is no way to eliminate it. You know, even writing something as simple as Notepad means lots of bugs. Its inevitable im afraid. :) People assume that if you just wait long enough, the bug hunters will find and eliminate all the bugs and THEN you can deploy it to TQ. If only it was that simple. Some bugs wont even be visible until they deploy it to TQ. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
sidthesexist Caldari Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.24 10:29:00 - [9] Originally by: Sakura Nihil The lag is more tolerable I've found on the Revelations test server. We'll see if it holds up on TQ soon, won't we? The systems like FD-MLJ are all on dedicated nodes, go to a different system with 100 people and test the lag, one where a Dev/GM doesn't know about. ________ Euphoria Released
sidthesexist Caldari Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.24 10:32:00 - [10] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Xykanth Roldeir Even CCP has said that with any major release there are always new bugs found. Maybe we should create a betting pool on the number of patches that will be issued in the month of December to deal with the new content. Development -> Bugs -> Development -> Bugs etc. Its a natural part of software engineering tbh. And the game MUST evolve to stay competitive on the market, not to mention remain interesting for people to play. This means bugs as well as features. There is no way to eliminate it. You know, even writing something as simple as Notepad means lots of bugs. Its inevitable im afraid. :) Oh i totally agree, but if i went to my business manager and told him the system i am updating for him may contain a major bug he would tell me to find any major bugs which may cause downtime or pack my things. Updating the server with better software is one thing, updating it after finding two major bugs 4 days before the update is a totally different ball game. ________ Euphoria Released
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.24 10:35:00 - [11] Originally by: sidthesexist Updating the server with better software is one thing, updating it after finding two major bugs 4 days before the update is a totally different ball game. I think the meaning of those bugs sound a bit exaggerated to us when sharky says "major". We interpret is as "critical" basicly... but I dont think its that serious. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
4rc4ng3L Gallente C R Y O	Posted - 2006.11.24 10:37:00 - [12] In the end i think its better if they release now. Regardless of what bugs remain. Once its on TQ with a full player base it will be easier for them to notice small bugs and fix them accordingly. They can only prepair it so much on SiSi, and as always the first few days of a new Patch are always bumpy... I say go for it, let the bumpy ride roll Death is the only true freedom, brought on by our own ignorance.... Welcome to the "free" world in which we live...
Robacz Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.24 10:39:00 - [13] Originally by: sidthesexist Dear CCP I believe the Kali release is way to early. After being on the test server and finding numerous bugs, quite a few cosmetic and some game-stopping, i believe that you are jumping the gun with the Kali release. Sharkbait said only yesterday after the 2nd stress test that two major bugs were discovered that CCP knew nothing about, and please forgive me for saying this but i don't believe kali will be released in a hugely improved format to the dragon code. I would rather wait two more weeks within which extensive testing is done on the new kali code and allot more bugs are found and fixed rather than Kali be released and have to go through an entire month of server-outages and constant re-boots to apply hot fixes to bugs not found. Please re-think this release date. Regards Why do you think that you have better information about Kali code than CCP programmers? I am sure they don't want to have sleep-less week of fixing major bugs after Kali deployment, so their release date is realistic and Kali will be ready. ___________ Buying/Selling: Implants & Hardwirings Producing/BPCs: Mining Barges, BCs, Cruisers
sidthesexist Caldari Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.24 10:42:00 - [14] Originally by: Robacz Originally by: sidthesexist Dear CCP I believe the Kali release is way to early. After being on the test server and finding numerous bugs, quite a few cosmetic and some game-stopping, i believe that you are jumping the gun with the Kali release. Sharkbait said only yesterday after the 2nd stress test that two major bugs were discovered that CCP knew nothing about, and please forgive me for saying this but i don't believe kali will be released in a hugely improved format to the dragon code. I would rather wait two more weeks within which extensive testing is done on the new kali code and allot more bugs are found and fixed rather than Kali be released and have to go through an entire month of server-outages and constant re-boots to apply hot fixes to bugs not found. Please re-think this release date. Regards Why do you think that you have better information about Kali code than CCP programmers? I am sure they don't want to have sleep-less week of fixing major bugs after Kali deployment, so their release date is realistic and Kali will be ready. Because the programmers are there to fix the bugs WE find. ________ Euphoria Released
Miss Overlord Gallente Ferrum Pugnus Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.24 10:50:00 - [15] CCP are worried about deadlines and public relations not bugs they can always reboot and fix those anyway in the 2 weeks after revelataions goes live we know it will be full of bugs and unplayable for the first 3 days Theres likley to be petition floods and what not so lets just gte it over with before xmas These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views This is a disclaimer
Robacz Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.24 10:50:00 - [16] Edited by: Robacz on 24/11/2006 10:49:52 Originally by: sidthesexist Because the programmers are there to fix the bugs WE find. That is only last step of testing though (major testing is done by QA). If they thought the code needs more testing, they would do it. Why would they want to release it early? There is no special income from free expansion. ___________ Buying/Selling: Implants & Hardwirings Producing/BPCs: Mining Barges, BCs, Cruisers
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.24 10:54:00 - [17] Originally by: sidthesexist Originally by: Sakura Nihil The lag is more tolerable I've found on the Revelations test server. We'll see if it holds up on TQ soon, won't we? The systems like FD-MLJ are all on dedicated nodes, go to a different system with 100 people and test the lag, one where a Dev/GM doesn't know about. Um... you do know that SiSi and TQ are two servers playing in completely different leagues? - EVE is sick.
infraX Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.24 11:00:00 - [18] Lag issues aside (as already mentioned, the hardware sisi is running on is far inferior to TQ so lag is to be expected with 300 people in FD-MLJ) I hope the devs don't feel pressured to rush Kali out before christmas. Sure it would be nice to have all the new toys to play with sooner, but not at the expense of game breaking bugs that cause the servers to be up and down every 5 minutes and the game to be unplayable. I'd rather they spent more time ironing out bugs, testing the code further and especially spent some more time balancing things properly before a release. In it's current state, I can't see how Kali can be ready for November 28th release.
sci0gon Tech 2 Ammo Holdings Limited	Posted - 2006.11.24 11:10:00 - [19] well last thing i saw was that the autopilot was not working on sisi, so as long as they leave out the warp to 0 changes for now they should have no problem with the amount of petitions they'd get thrown at them if they did. them releasing kali early will allow more players to actually look at the new features and put the thumb screws on ccp to get them fixed
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.24 11:13:00 - [20] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 24/11/2006 11:14:00 Originally by: sci0gon well last thing i saw was that the autopilot was not working on sisi Its just a minor bug. The autopilot doesnt automatically update the route when you jump to a new system, but every time you open the map, the autopilot updates its route again and starts working perfectly. So all thats needed is that the client runs the "update code" from the map to fix it. That one will most definently get fixed - very easy to do so. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
FalconHawk Amarr Falcon Advanced Industries	Posted - 2006.11.24 11:21:00 - [21] Bugs? who cares? we already know how to suffer for some time after major releases but i realy want the new stuff
Xaroth Brook Minmatar Doomcraft	Posted - 2006.11.24 11:25:00 - [22] Originally by: sidthesexist Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 24/11/2006 10:22:40 You do know that those bugs most likely are in the TQ build as well, right? :) I dont think ccp would go ahead with this unless they knew that Kali is actually better than Dragon even with some bugs still remaining. So just relax. :) Thats the point, good business ethics is not releasing something until those bugs are quashed. As for Kali being better than dragon, well go on the test server and check the lag with 200 people, its not a huge improvement if any at all. yeh, maybe it's lagging because Singularity is probably only using 10% of the dedicated hardware Tranquility is using.. SiSi always lags, no matter how much people are on it, it's because it's the TEST server... or did you really think CCP would spend millions to get SiSi up to the standards of TQ, while they are updating it 80% of the time? get real. Seeing how they checked how patch deployment would go yesterday, it's clear that CCP wants to come prepared, and iron out a lot of bugs that happen during deployment before it actually hits TQ... Let the developers develop.. unless you think you're a better developers than they are, in which case I suggest you to go mail your resume to ccp so they can hire you. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Xaroth Brook Brainiac of Doomcraft Member of R I S E
Alastorr Frost Minmatar Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated	Posted - 2006.11.24 11:35:00 - [23] So many whines about Kali and so little cheese! I say bring it on...NO software release is EVER 100% bugfree... Just look at Microsoft!. I WANT KALI, so bring it on! Regards, Frosty Thanks to MAXSuicide for this nice Sig
Gradinger Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.24 11:48:00 - [24] nice try sid, but u know whateva we post here wont change ccp¦s mind... they have never released a nearly bugfree expansion - all have been disasters in fact. if i would play as much as i used to i would be worried maybe but meh.. after all i¦d be interested in the bugs that give me billions of isk, cuz i seem to be one of the unlucky ones who never finds those - dont hesitate to mail me if you know of some
Ediz Daxx FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.11.24 11:54:00 - [25] Kali do seem to be a bit rushed imo.
Sapeian Caldari Scorn. Sani Khal'Vecna	Posted - 2006.11.24 11:58:00 - [26] Originally by: sidthesexist Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 24/11/2006 10:22:40 You do know that those bugs most likely are in the TQ build as well, right? :) I dont think ccp would go ahead with this unless they knew that Kali is actually better than Dragon even with some bugs still remaining. So just relax. :) Thats the point, good business ethics is not releasing something until those bugs are quashed. As for Kali being better than dragon, well go on the test server and check the lag with 200 people, its not a huge improvement if any at all. Just like to say have you ever been to jita?, the lag with 200 people is becuase everyone sits in the same system rather than out testing other things like the auto pilot or random other stuff. Like they say in the little box when u start the game.. for better game experiance please spread out. I rest my bread. Smacktalking will only make your death slower.null
Niccolado Starwalker Syncore Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.24 12:01:00 - [27] Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 24/11/2006 12:03:38 Originally by: sidthesexist Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 24/11/2006 10:22:40 You do know that those bugs most likely are in the TQ build as well, right? :) I dont think ccp would go ahead with this unless they knew that Kali is actually better than Dragon even with some bugs still remaining. So just relax. :) Thats the point, good business ethics is not releasing something until those bugs are quashed. As for Kali being better than dragon, well go on the test server and check the lag with 200 people, its not a huge improvement if any at all. The lag comes of the reason that they are not running on TQ hardware, but on SiSi hardware which is faaar from as advanced as TQ. They have however tested the build on TQ in its downtime periods. Internally, but still tested it. I am sure it will be fine
Verone Veto.	Posted - 2006.11.24 12:16:00 - [28] Originally by: sidthesexist As for Kali being better than dragon, well go on the test server and check the lag with 200 people, its not a huge improvement if any at all. Probably because Singularity has a FRACTION of the hardware that's running on Tranquility and when people are all blobbed up in one place it puts excessive load on the hardware. Trying to guage performance in that respect to TQ is pointless.
RaTTuS BIG R i s e	Posted - 2006.11.24 12:21:00 - [29] Well a few things Sisi hardware is nothing like TQ hardware - so the lag being worse is to be expected - what you need to do is check what Sisi operated like under current code and then see what it is like under current code. I have been on sis for the POS \| gate stress tests a small whiole back when we crashed nodes and the lag was mental.. the current tests [I missed last nights ones] where better - this means to me that the new system is better. When say fix the current problems - that really menas no new development at all - becuase you have to keep everybody on the old code base, Since the code has changed significanly. you have to move evey one to the new system then you can dovet all teh team to bug fixing on that version. forums ate my post -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal \| RaTTuS @ Skills Showroom
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.24 12:24:00 - [30] I say they don't release Kali until there are provably no bugs at all in it. Anyone who knows the first thing about software development will surely agree that this is both possible and practical. ---------- IBTL \o/ It's great being in ur forums mixing ur memes, ain't it?

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