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Last call of help for Maelstrom

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Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.11.24 16:39:00 - [1] Edited by: Tiuwaz on 24/11/2006 16:40:53 The Beginning of the Tragedy In the end of July Tuxford wrote a blog about the new battleships and their bonuses. heated discussions erupted as a consequence, as some of it were quite controversial and many worried about the feasability/useabilty of the exposed designs. For minmatar particular worrying was the maelstrom which was designed as a shieldtanking artyboat. We made it quite loud and clear known that: 1) active tanking of a longrange boat is pretty much useless except for mission running or low sec sentry tanking (we already have a decent mission runner with typhoon and low sec sentrytanking is also already done by many ships) 2) shield boost bonus is inferior most of the time compared to a straight resist bonus like the Rokh gets 3) shield boost bonus requires a dedicated slot to make use of it, while a straight resist bonus doesnt 4) we already have a decent sniper in the tempest, and the maels bring absolutely nothing new, in fact it is an inferior sniper as the cost of a tier 3bs and 2x more arty far exceed the benefit of a slightly higher damage at the loss of 2 high utility slozts and worse agility 5) Most minmatars were hoping for an ac boat as that was what we really lacked A Veil of hope appears 1 week later Tuxford posts a new Blog with some clarification and sheds some insight on the Maelstrom: Originally by: Tuxford "we intend the Maelstrom to be a shield tanking artillery boat, relying on other ships to tackle for you. Then again shield boost bonus isn't really terribly effective in fleets where you have potentially a lot of ships firing at you and damage output exceeds your tank's absorption by a wide margin. That's basically the reasoning for changing the Moa's shield boost bonus to resistance bonus originally." Minmatar gets some and hopes that ccp sees how redundant the proposed design is. The storm clams and a wait and see attitude gets prevelant. Disappointment rears its ugly head After several weeks the stats from sisi get to the public. With no change to Maelstrom Minmatar get restless again, proposing dozens of alternatives , giving arguments why its bad and confusion what the hell we should do with this ship. Originally by: Tuxford Its almost always worse than the Rokh's resistance bonus as well. Bonuses don't really need to be equal but Maelstrom doesn't really have much else going for it either. Well its a solid good ship but I can't help thinking its a bit subpar compared to other battleships. Maybe I'm just a whiner though. The mael is no solid ship. Its a great ship for complex tankers. Its a good ship for those with billions of isk to invest into faction implnats and faction stuff. It is mostly useless for everyone else. Fleet: - 6,6% more damage than tempest at 40% more cost (33% more turrets and 50% higher base cost) - worse speed and agility, important for fast alignment or getting out of interdictorbubbles - lower dmg modifier per gun, important in laggy fights where not all guns activate - no free utility slots for remote rep or antitacklerdefense Solo sniping: - Hp increase of this expanion and earlier ones have severly impaired alpha strike and it isnt that viable anymore. Better tank than Tempest for this tough. Mission Running: - tracking issues with arty - horrible mobility to get into range for either arty or ac's - typhoon doing that xtimes better Solo AC PvP - horrible mobilty as already mention ( has more mass than raven) - ac boats need to have mwd, web, cap injector, scrambler, leaving you with a 2 worthless slot shield tank making Mael is no solo ac boat and thats fine with me, not all have to be good in solo, but listing it to show its another role where its useless. - small cargobay limits severely the tanking ability as you can cant carry as many cap charges Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.11.24 16:40:00 - [2] Edited by: Tiuwaz on 24/11/2006 16:53:53 add AC Solo PvP: not every ship has to be good at solo and its fine for me that the Mael isnt, but i am listing it aswell as its an important standard role one can fill. Gang AC PvP - needs atleast a mwd, even in gang - horrible mobility, you have to sacrifice some lowslots for agility/speed mods - great tankage with 4 slot tank and injector - very vulnerable to nos, if you run a heavy tank you need to sacrifice 1-2 turret hardpoints for nos, or your tank will be made useless with all the noses currently flying around - horrible dps if you do so - taking the above in account you can perform again better by using a 7 slot armour tank on typhoon, 4 nos/4cruise - small cargobay, you practically have to ask someone to carry your cap charges Mining - clear winner here >_> atleast for matari spec, rokh gets more cput and can fit more mining upgrades Complex Tanking - Wet Dream for all those billionaires with Gist stuff and implants to run those complexes even easier Desillusion and Bitterness gripes the Minmatar heart The Maelstrom is starting to take the place the Typhoon had for a long time. An extremely niche Battleship with very few uses for the broad population, and becoming a running gag. "What to do with your Maelstrom! High: recycle Mid: build tempest Low: buy modules from the remaining 60 mill worth of mins" You have succeded in your design to make the Tempest largely useless as a shortrange boat as it is intended for longrange. You failed at the Hyperion to make it shortrange only, and you didnt succed as well with impairing the Rokh from shortrange as you did with Mael. You have continously ignored every thread and comment on the Maelstrom since October. Normally this means one of these reasons: "We think its fine" or " We dont know what to do with it". In both cases the fated ship goes live without changes. This is unacceptable. If you do think it is fine , then plz tell me why you think so. If you dont know what to do with it then plz assure us that its on priority for after Kali. (I have no illusions you will change the Mael in the last 4 remaining days) Dont make us stuck with a battleship that needs 3 years of suckiness till it gets fixed like we had to endure with the Typhoon. On a sidenote the Typhoon still has more shield hp than armour hp . Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.11.24 16:48:00 - [3] Originally by: Jim McGregor - Whats this, a minmatar player that still hasnt given up hope?! Im cutting off another turret from the Hurricane. That will show them who's the boss. atleast post with your main so i get a golden bar Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.11.24 16:59:00 - [4] enough hijack! comments about the mael plz, there has to be a few ppl who havent given up hope yet Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.11.24 17:09:00 - [5] Edited by: Tiuwaz on 24/11/2006 17:09:13 Originally by: Loki Totaly agree, but might this not be better in revelations testing and dev? i linked it in the Battleship thread, but reveleations forum itself is 1 page full of stickys, the thread would vanish into obscurity in no time unless constantly bumped Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.11.24 21:29:00 - [6] Originally by: Kaylana Syi 10% Shield HP boost and 5% damage NOT RoF makes it the fleet ship it should be. if it has to be an artillery ship then this is what i'd go for but.. WHY oh WHY couldnt they just design a giant stabber? seriously rupture -> Tempest bellicose -> typhoon stabber -> maelstrom its never gonna happen now but arrrgh Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.11.25 00:02:00 - [7] Edited by: Tiuwaz on 25/11/2006 00:09:41 Originally by: Arian Snow Tiuwaz .. I think the battle is pretty much lost, though the Maelstroms obvious flaws has been acknowledged I have a hard time imagining it will change. As Tux once wrote: "The shield boost bonus wasn't good enough for the Moa, thats why it was changed to resist" -and given to the Minmatar \O/ yeah i have given up hope aswell, but i had to make a last stand despite the odds i am gonna make me a new sig out of the last part you wrote, great material edit: bah too many characters for sig Originally by: Tuxford shield boost bonus isn't really terribly effective in fleets ... That's basically the reasoning for changing the Moa's shield boost bonus to resistance bonus Maelstrom not a
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.11.25 13:22:00 - [8] Originally by: Quarantine I'd prefer if the Maelstorm wasn't released with Kali next week, but held back, redesigned and be released at a later point. Amen! Quote: Banane
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.11.25 18:37:00 - [9] Originally by: Ariel Dawn How about 10% Damage per level and no other bonus? Would be great with artillery and for fleet battles. while awesome for alpha strike, that would be way too much, also ccp have stated several times that they want to nerf alpha strike so they'll never even give us 5% damage on mael Quote: Banane
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.11.25 21:26:00 - [10] Originally by: GC13 Well I'm glad to see that my +10% optimal, +5% damage suggestion didn't garner any "GTFO" comments. Maybe CCP is hoping to surprise us with brand new tier 3 BS stats when Kali goes live? Come on, I can dream. actually i think thats a very nice bonus combination, probably too nice for minmatar Quote: Banane

Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.11.26 00:25:00 - [11] Edited by: Tiuwaz on 26/11/2006 00:25:00 Originally by: Trefnis I dont care about speed tbh, I chosen matari becouse of great hits per gun, and I cry when I see 1400mm gun with quake doing excellents for 300 - 400 hp :/ I dont care about rof, DMG MOD IS MY GOD gave me an idea maelstrom 6 turrets/ 3 launchers 10% damage per level 7,5% shield boost bonus sucky dps but the alpha strike of 9 turrets and keeping the shield boost bonus ccp loves so much Quote: Banane
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.11.26 12:59:00 - [12] 3 days left then we'll be stuck with it for the next 2-3 years Quote: Banane
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.11.26 14:04:00 - [13] Edited by: Tiuwaz on 26/11/2006 14:04:33 Originally by: Tachy The topic sounds like the promise to shut up if nothing happens. I will probably shut up as we have told them since july that this design sucks, if they havent seen till now how utterly bad an active shield boost bonus in conjunction with artillery is then nothing will make them realize it. Perhaps if the numbers of flown maelstroms are abysmal low like they were for typhoon then something will change in 1-2 years but i dont really have that hope either, it has 8 turrets so it will be used a lot for mining >_> Quote: Banane
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.11.27 12:23:00 - [14] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/11/2006 12:16:48 Maelstrom with autocannons will be good: Linkage. MWD, cap injector + 4 slot tank with built in shield boost amplifier. But you will need a tackler, unlike the megathron. So while the Maelstrom tanks better than a Mega, and has almost as good dps, its slower and cant tackle. So i dont know. Good in gangs I guess. If the Maelstrom would have been a armor tanker with some extra speed, it would challenge the Megathron and be a really good ship for solo pvp. not really, even in gangs you still need a mwd and to keep your tank alive you'll have to fit 2-3 noses (this is to counteract noses on you), the tank is great but you'll bring little else to the gang then there is the small cargobay which limits you severly in cap charges. you are better off with 7 slot tank on typhoon and 4 noses(instead turrets), still sporting your drones and missiles Quote: Banane
Tiuwaz Minmatar Omacron Militia	Posted - 2006.11.27 21:58:00 - [15] 4 h till Kali and no comment about the maelstrom since october GG >_> we had comments about hype, abaddon, drake, myrm, hurr, harb no comments about the Rokh (which is the best of the tier 3, and the only whining from caldari side was that it isnt a missile ship) No comments about the maelstrom, of which we have said from the very beginning that its very bad. I have yet to see someone who is happy with the current design of the Maelstrom, and more importantly, I havent seen ANYONE *** about the Maelstrom that the mael is so much better than his/her <insert ship> or does this or that so much better. All we got is pitiful stares and hidden smiles that Minni got the worst deal of the new BS's. AN ARTILLERY BOAT DOESNT TANK ACTIVELY except those mission runners who havent heard of missiles yet. Originally by:** Gallente Information Ministry A Myrmidon pilot with 5 heavy drones is a bad pilot, someone who dies to him can only be worse.

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