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newfaceok
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Posted - 2006.11.25 01:42:00 -
[1]
Edited by: newfaceok on 25/11/2006 01:44:54 Edited by: newfaceok on 25/11/2006 01:44:07 I was just reading the patch notes...
Javelin torps got their range halved, their damage reduced by about 20%, and their explos radius increase by 33%. Velocity penalty is reasonable now, but that is small comfort. The only advantage these retain (in spite of the skillpoints, cost, launcher fittings, etc we all pay dearly for such an advantage) over regular torps is the speed of travel.. and our damage is gimped. I want my skillpoints back :/
Rage cruise do even less damage, and also got their range halved. There is literally 0 reason to use these over javelin torps now (less range, less damage?), and little reason to use javelin torps over regular torps.
Rage torps are only useful on capital ships, and precision cruise have already been nerfed into oblivion a few patches ago.
There isn't a single half-assed sniper setup for missiles anymore. Every t2 launcher pilot just ate a big fat one.
I spent my entire 11 months of gameplay skilling for this setup (missile bs), and now I'm stuck with gimp weapons, with no alternative weap choices, no skill in any other race ships either to swap out.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that gunnery completely wtfpwns missiles now. Considering cap got boosted across the board I'm inclined to trade for an 8 tach2 abaddon pilot now if anyone is interested :/
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Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.11.25 01:44:00 -
[2]
You could use tech 1 cruise missiles....
I sure as hell will only being using tech 1 ammo in my blasters after this patch, and probably my rails too... --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
newfaceok
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Posted - 2006.11.25 01:46:00 -
[3]
Edited by: newfaceok on 25/11/2006 01:47:13 yay t1 cruise? :(
I dont know much about gunnery, did all t2 guns eat it as well?
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Siobhan Ni
Gallente Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2006.11.25 01:46:00 -
[4]
Now you know how it feels to be Amarr, Gallente, Minmatar
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newfaceok
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Posted - 2006.11.25 01:55:00 -
[5]
Edited by: newfaceok on 25/11/2006 01:56:07 Edited by: newfaceok on 25/11/2006 01:55:24 not really.
if debate on the forums has been any indication there were very few advantages missiles had over gunnery to begin with. Now any equal gunnery setup outdistances and outdamages the caldari equivalent.
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Dragerest
Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.25 02:01:00 -
[6]
Originally by: newfaceok Edited by: newfaceok on 25/11/2006 01:44:54 Edited by: newfaceok on 25/11/2006 01:44:07 I was just reading the patch notes...
Javelin torps got their range halved, their damage reduced by about 20%, and their explos radius increase by 33%. Velocity penalty is reasonable now, but that is small comfort. The only advantage these retain (in spite of the skillpoints, cost, launcher fittings, etc we all pay dearly for such an advantage) over regular torps is the speed of travel.. and our damage is gimped. I want my skillpoints back :/
Rage cruise do even less damage, and also got their range halved. There is literally 0 reason to use these over javelin torps now (less range, less damage?), and little reason to use javelin torps over regular torps.
Rage torps are only useful on capital ships, and precision cruise have already been nerfed into oblivion a few patches ago.
There isn't a single half-assed sniper setup for missiles anymore. Every t2 launcher pilot just ate a big fat one.
I spent my entire 11 months of gameplay skilling for this setup (missile bs), and now I'm stuck with gimp weapons, with no alternative weap choices, no skill in any other race ships either to swap out.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that gunnery completely wtfpwns missiles now. Considering cap got boosted across the board I'm inclined to trade for an 8 tach2 abaddon pilot now if anyone is interested :/
can i have your stuff?
For your tech 2 needs www.evetrust.com
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Blanche Virgo
The Followers of Origin
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Posted - 2006.11.25 02:08:00 -
[7]
Originally by: newfaceok
not really.
if debate on the forums has been any indication there were very few advantages missiles had over gunnery to begin with. Now any equal gunnery setup outdistances and outdamages the caldari equivalent.
Actually the Caldari equivalent is the Rokh. The Raven never was the equivalent of the turret BS's, the Caldari just haven't had an equivalent of those other BS's in a long long time. Try not using easy mode and do a different race than Caldari, you'll probably have more fun. (missles are not fun)
EvE > WoW |
Montero
Black Omega Security
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Posted - 2006.11.25 02:21:00 -
[8]
boo hoo itt.
Javs did take a hit but they were clearly out of balance before. This is a reasonable and imo required change. ---------
Scrapheap Challenge
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welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2006.11.25 02:25:00 -
[9]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 25/11/2006 02:26:06 I'm confident that once Revelations is released it'll become apparent that missiles have serious problems just like they did after Exodus (or was it Castor?) so don't worry about it too much.
They'll get changed again.
In the mean time use tech I ammo, it is considerably better than the tech II stuff and alot cheaper/easier to get hold of.
Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
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Chronus26
Gallente Dark Blood Contracts
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Posted - 2006.11.25 02:29:00 -
[10]
T1 torps hit BS for better Damage than Javelin but you'd probably be best using Javelins to hit cruisers and below. You just need to carry a few different kinds, not difficuilt. And there is benefit to using T2 launchers without T2 ammo, a greater ROF which makes all the difference to your damage output. I trained for T2 Seige just for this, Javelin torps were just a bonus. ----- Move along, nothing to see here... |
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.11.25 02:30:00 -
[11]
Javelin torps are totally useless now... I mean they weren't even overpowered before, but now they're worse than T1.
I still don't get this.
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2006.11.25 02:35:00 -
[12]
Torps are for npc'ing now.
Bah was getting excited, was thinking 6 HAM II's with RoF bonus on me Raven but it only applies to Cruise and Siege :(
Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
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welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2006.11.25 02:37:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Dark Shikari Javelin torps are totally useless now... I mean they weren't even overpowered before, but now they're worse than T1.
I still don't get this.
There doesn't appear to be a use for them anymore, except maybe for killing fast battlecruisers?
They don't hurt BS and HACS laugh em off.
Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
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Montero
Black Omega Security
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Posted - 2006.11.25 02:43:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Dark Shikari Javelin torps are totally useless now... I mean they weren't even overpowered before, but now they're worse than T1.
I still don't get this.
I haven't tested them myself, but I'm willing to trust that you probably have both tried them practicaly and in terms of numbers. If they are that bad I'm sure they will get looked at. Until then T1 cruise ftw. ---------
Scrapheap Challenge
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.11.25 02:45:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Montero
Originally by: Dark Shikari Javelin torps are totally useless now... I mean they weren't even overpowered before, but now they're worse than T1.
I still don't get this.
I haven't tested them myself, but I'm willing to trust that you probably have both tried them practicaly and in terms of numbers. If they are that bad I'm sure they will get looked at. Until then T1 cruise ftw.
I haven't tried them practically, but if I recall correctly they're basically T1 torpedoes with less damage and more range.
More range. Whoopdyfriggindo. Nobody uses torpedoes as a long-range weapon to begin with.
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
Arlen Warstadt
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Posted - 2006.11.25 02:50:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Arlen Warstadt on 25/11/2006 02:51:12 The problem is T1 torps are crazy slow, giving NPC's plently of time to nuke em all down with Defenders and significantly reducing the range at which you can hit stuff. The kicker to using T2 torps was not only the ability to hit smaller ships (and even frigs with the assistance of a Target Painter), but the increased speed gave you much more range than T1.
For comparison, base speed of T1 torps is 1250 m/s whereas Jav Torps fly at 3750 m/s, three times as fast.
Also, they may do less damage than T1 torps, but I do believe the had a reduced explosion radius and increased explosion velocity, meaning more damage to smaller targets than T1 torps could do
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welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2006.11.25 02:51:00 -
[17]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 25/11/2006 02:54:37
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Montero
Originally by: Dark Shikari Javelin torps are totally useless now... I mean they weren't even overpowered before, but now they're worse than T1.
I still don't get this.
I haven't tested them myself, but I'm willing to trust that you probably have both tried them practicaly and in terms of numbers. If they are that bad I'm sure they will get looked at. Until then T1 cruise ftw.
I haven't tried them practically, but if I recall correctly they're basically T1 torpedoes with less damage and more range.
More range. Whoopdyfriggindo. Nobody uses torpedoes as a long-range weapon to begin with.
Quote: Flight time reduced to 12.5s.
The range is getting nerfed too. The ship velocity penalty is less harsh but that does nothing for the Raven.
They're obsolete, ul tech II torp bpo owners tbh.
Originally by: Arlen Warstadt Edited by: Arlen Warstadt on 25/11/2006 02:51:12 The problem is T1 torps are crazy slow, giving NPC's plently of time to nuke em all down with Defenders and significantly reducing the range at which you can hit stuff.
I've never seen an npc kill a torp, it takes 3 defenders. They're perfect for npc'ing but too slow for pvp.
Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
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Shin Ra
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2006.11.25 02:53:00 -
[18]
I believe Tuxford mentioned that it may have been a little harsh and they would be looked at but they haven't been - YET.
I think its rediculous that they do less dmg than t1 but have same exp radius, there is no possible reason for this to be the case.
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Aeaus
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.11.25 02:55:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
I haven't tried them practically, but if I recall correctly they're basically T1 torpedoes with less damage and more range.
DS, You probably aren't used to this since you're the resident forum *****, but maybe you should actually try them before talking about balance.
And as far as I'm concerned every other weapons system in this game sacrifices damage for range.
Last Weeks Signature |
welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2006.11.25 02:58:00 -
[20]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 25/11/2006 02:59:50
Originally by: Aeaus
Originally by: Dark Shikari
I haven't tried them practically, but if I recall correctly they're basically T1 torpedoes with less damage and more range.
DS, You probably aren't used to this since you're the resident forum *****, but maybe you should actually try them before talking about balance.
And as far as I'm concerned every other weapons system in this game sacrifices damage for range.
Right so Javelin get less damage and less range? Explain.
I believe the root of the 'nerf Javelin' debacle is simple. They were intended to be anti battleship missiles giving the Raven some use in a fleet situation but the community mistakenly thought they were for killing support. Queue massive outcry, result: pointless ammunition.
Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
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Father Weebles
Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated
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Posted - 2006.11.25 02:58:00 -
[21]
my taranis got hit pretty hard by jav torps from 200-220km awhile back
max range for jav should be much lower imo
"Welcome to EVE, where inflation is out of control." |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.11.25 02:59:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 25/11/2006 02:59:04
Originally by: Aeaus
Originally by: Dark Shikari
I haven't tried them practically, but if I recall correctly they're basically T1 torpedoes with less damage and more range.
DS, You probably aren't used to this since you're the resident forum *****, but maybe you should actually try them before talking about balance.
Dude, I can't use them. I can't use T2 siege.
Originally by: Aeaus
And as far as I'm concerned every other weapons system in this game sacrifices damage for range.
Missiles aren't "every other weapon system." Please stop trying to make everything in EVE the same--ships and weapons are supposed to be different but balanced, not completely the same.
Its quite clear that there are almost no uses for javelin torpedoes now that they don't even do what they were created to do.
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2006.11.25 03:04:00 -
[23]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 25/11/2006 03:07:48 Edited by: welsh wizard on 25/11/2006 03:06:41 In my opinion the Javelin was given the wrong bonuses in the first place.
Javelin missiles should have been fast, hard hitting and long range but poor against anything cruiser sized or smaller, maintaining the negative ship velocity bonus.
Rage should have been short range, fast, low damage but better against small ships (explosion radius and velocity good).
Basically tech I torps should be as slow as torps get, the long range tech II ammo should have been hard hitting and the short range stuff should have been weaker but good against small ships.
This way an ammo type would have been provided for the Raven to fight Battleships in Fleet but be at risk against small ships.
The short range stuff would have been adequate defence against frigs and hacs but not damaging enough against battleships/command ships.
Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
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Altai Saker
Omniscient Order The Sani Sabik
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Posted - 2006.11.25 03:27:00 -
[24]
TBH, Jav torps were completely retarded anyway, it's only right that they now suck and hopefully no one will use them until real t2 ammo is redone.
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Ion Bartzabel
Caldari No Quarter.
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Posted - 2006.11.25 04:11:00 -
[25]
Thank you for nerfing missiles back to the stone age. Eagle = crap (spike nerf), raven = crap (javelin nerf).
afaik rook is surviving, just no dmg because it cant hit **** from that range anyway..
Thank god for rokh.. hope it's atleast alittle usefull.
People will always find stuff that is better than other stuff, you don't need to 'fix' things by changing the whole game because some whine about things..
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Tetovo
Caldari Black Lance Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.11.25 04:41:00 -
[26]
I think they needed a change, as they were there was no drawback compared to normal torpedoes...every other tech 2 ammo had a drawback. Same damage, faster, smaller exp radius, more flight time. Now the drawback given to javs may have been just a little harsh but it will all be righted in time.
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Dammar
Ephorate
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Posted - 2006.11.25 05:08:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Dammar on 25/11/2006 05:11:30
Originally by: newfaceok ...I'm inclined to trade for an 8 tach2 abaddon pilot now if anyone is interested :/
Heh, go ahead and trade for one, just don't be sad when you see the grass is actually brown, dead and blowing away on the other side.
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DHB WildCat
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2006.11.25 05:32:00 -
[28]
Like Shin Ra said they are being looked at and hopefully will be changed for the better soon. Even if they are not you will just have to adapt like everyone else. Think outside the box, you might find something that hits harder than javelin torps ever did, I know I did.
WildCat
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Frezik
Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap
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Posted - 2006.11.25 05:37:00 -
[29]
Last time I ran the numbers, the new rage torps came out better vs BS when using a target painter or two (due to better explosion radius), though they are worse vs cap ships and POS. They could probably stand to be tweaked up a bit more vs BS, but it stands that the Raven can do some impressive damage while also maintaining a fine tank, provided it has a gangmate to do tackling duty (e.g. a stiletto w/2xscram, 2xTP).
Javs could have kept their existing range with speed brought up and flight time reduced, while also doing less damage than t1. Such a change may even make Ravens useful in large fleets. No change should be made to improve them vs smaller targets--that's what precision cruise are for.
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Samirol
Ore Mongers SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.25 06:33:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Samirol on 25/11/2006 06:32:58
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Siobhan Ni Now you know how it feels to be Amarr, Gallente, Minmatar
/me glances at the Myrmidon's stats.
Man, Gallente sure are getting it rough this patch.
they need to remove a high slot/turret off of it tbh
that should be the tradeoff for having a 125m3 drone bay
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