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Roy Batty68
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Posted - 2006.11.26 00:53:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Robert Ocean ... And a 2 year character has lost exactly the same time than I, so he should get no more. 500k SP is what he deserves, let he have it, even if it doesn't count much. It'll be a nice boost in the Capital Ship training bar anyway.
/sigh
No. I guarantee that as soon as CCP grants everyone a freebie 500k SP, someone would whip out an Excel sheet showing how if they had gotten the boost to learning skills two years ago they would actually have 2.34465mil more SP points now and to only get a 500k boost makes CCP a TERRIBLE company that doesn't care and blah blah blah rabble rabble rabble.
When CCP introduced the learning skills, did they compensate the older players who had been playing without them up until that point? If not, the precedent is set.
Game's change. You agreed to it in the EULA. Other things are changing for the better as well. For instance, would it be right of me to start complaining about how if I had had the upcomming increase in HP on my Ferox two months ago, I wouldn't have lost it in PvP? Should I start demanding that CCP do the Timewarp and compensate my past game play every time they improve something?
Trust me, I would love to have another 500k SP. But that isn't the point.
Originally by: Big Al
Well, if there was a law against stupidity, the server would certainly lag less.
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Kylania
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.26 01:49:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Kylania on 26/11/2006 01:50:59 Edited by: Kylania on 26/11/2006 01:50:29 My bank is offering a free toaster to any new acounts that people open. I've had my acount for a decade. While it's perhaps a shame that I can't get the toaster, the bank doesn't owe me anything.
I was able to spend the money I earned from interest while having my account and using it to buy myself a toaster. Something I earned myself, rather than was given to em. I also know much more about using my account than someone that says "hey, toaster!" and starts this week.
So yeah, if you want a free toaster, start over. Otherwise take your knowledge and resources you have so far and buy yourself a toaster. Either way you get toast. -- Lil Miner Newbie Skills Roadmap | CCG Card Lookup |
Sgt Blade
Imperial Space Corporation
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Posted - 2006.11.26 02:08:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Sgt Blade on 26/11/2006 02:08:27 well asmume that your main char has not got more then 1.2 mill sp mabey?? then all new palyers recently can easily make an alt with the new sp and just wire over assets vie escrow so
*EDIT* alt on same account
ISC Are Recruiting |
Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.26 02:21:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Robert Ocean
Originally by: coastie124VD It'll be great if you start an alt.
Yeah but I don't want an alt. My main is pretty nice, I like him, but I don't like the fact that I spent two months to make him be like he is, where I could just have waited without spending a buck, and having it the same way.
See, this is where your flawed logic is brought to light.
If you waited till kali, then you'd have nothing right now. You'd have no character, no assets, no knowledge of the game, no experience, no clue...etc.
3 days after I made this char, someone told me I should remake and get caldari frig 4 and SSC 2, I had 100k sps at the time, remaking would've given me 120k or so. Did I remake? No. Does it matter now? No. Unlike me back then, you've likely got more SPs than a new char will.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Sswiftstrike
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Posted - 2006.11.26 03:21:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Sswiftstrike on 26/11/2006 03:22:01 That blows... I just recently started playing which means someone who starts playing tuesday will have more points than me and ive been playing about 2 weeks (about 700,000 more). Hopefully Ill at least have a better ship and better skill customization.
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CharlieMurphy
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2006.11.26 04:33:00 -
[36]
Edited by: CharlieMurphy on 26/11/2006 04:36:59
Originally by: Kylania Edited by: Kylania on 26/11/2006 01:50:59 Edited by: Kylania on 26/11/2006 01:50:29 My bank is offering a free toaster to any new acounts that people open. I've had my acount for a decade. While it's perhaps a shame that I can't get the toaster, the bank doesn't owe me anything.
I was able to spend the money I earned from interest while having my account and using it to buy myself a toaster. Something I earned myself, rather than was given to em. I also know much more about using my account than someone that says "hey, toaster!" and starts this week.
So yeah, if you want a free toaster, start over. Otherwise take your knowledge and resources you have so far and buy yourself a toaster. Either way you get toast.
but you can open a new account and get your free toaster and then forget about it and it means nothing this is a kick in the teeth for everybody that started off with 25k or so sp i thought the new bloodlines was over generous tbh but this just takes the biscuit
if your going to do this ccp then you owe all the people that came up the hard way 800k sp
Edit: and off the top of my head a x3 skill taken to level 5 is about 255k sp is it not? thats 3 x3 skills at lvl 5
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.26 04:35:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Sswiftstrike Edited by: Sswiftstrike on 26/11/2006 03:22:01 That blows... I just recently started playing which means someone who starts playing tuesday will have more points than me and ive been playing about 2 weeks (about 700,000 more). Hopefully Ill at least have a better ship and better skill customization.
Honestly, for people who have maybe 100k sos or so, I'd suggest making an alt, giving everything yuou have to that alt, and making a new char at Kali.
You may decide that another race is better. I know I'd change to civire now if I could.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Madcat Adams
Mission Runners Anonymous Incorporated
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Posted - 2006.11.26 04:40:00 -
[38]
Yes it's annoying that brand new characters will be getting free sp's, but then to characters older than mine it's probably annoying that I could set learning skills immediatly, not that I did. Some little something would be nice, but why harasses CCP over it? Just let it go, it's good enough that any alts made will get some extra skillz now. Though, if they want to throw say a turkey launcher for every account or something the day before it would be a nice chuckle.
It's great being Amarr, ain't it?
Aimez- "oh ****, this is empire......."
Thanks for the loot, and next time you go out to pirate, carry more tech 2 plz =) |
CharlieMurphy
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2006.11.26 04:43:00 -
[39]
Quote: but why harasses CCP over it?
because they knew it would pss off everybody that had t start with 1/10 of the sp but they went ahead and did it anyway
and lets face it... at risk of sounding whiny
its not fair
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Madcat Adams
Mission Runners Anonymous Incorporated
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Posted - 2006.11.26 05:11:00 -
[40]
Originally by: CharlieMurphy
Quote: but why harasses CCP over it?
because they knew it would pss off everybody that had t start with 1/10 of the sp but they went ahead and did it anyway
and lets face it... at risk of sounding whiny
its not fair
Not fair?
My friend, Eve is not fair. If 800k skill points seems that terriable, lets just say you haven't seen anything yet. To name a few things.. the tech 2 monopoly isn't fair. Reaver domination of non alliance low sec isn't fair. Alliance domination of the rest of low sec isn't fair. BoB isn't fair . Ancient PCs with event issued ships isn't fair. The current state of Amarr isn't fair .
Besides, free skill points for everyone would be a nightmare to implement.
It's great being Amarr, ain't it?
Aimez- "oh ****, this is empire......."
Thanks for the loot, and next time you go out to pirate, carry more tech 2 plz =) |
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CharlieMurphy
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2006.11.26 05:21:00 -
[41]
Edited by: CharlieMurphy on 26/11/2006 05:22:51
Quote: Besides, free skill points for everyone would be a nightmare to implement
your right but like the title of this thread says,that much skill points looks quite alot like a months worth of eve time
and why do new players need it anyway ? gunnery 5 was a big deal for me so was frigate 5 and i got by fine with the sp i started with this is wrong it makes me want to hang round starter systems victimising noobs tbh
Edit:just give me my 800k sp and ill stop moaning about it all im saying is give a fair deal to all
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.11.26 06:10:00 -
[42]
Originally by: CharlieMurphy Edited by: CharlieMurphy on 26/11/2006 05:22:51
Quote: Besides, free skill points for everyone would be a nightmare to implement
your right but like the title of this thread says,that much skill points looks quite alot like a months worth of eve time
and why do new players need it anyway ? gunnery 5 was a big deal for me so was frigate 5 and i got by fine with the sp i started with this is wrong it makes me want to hang round starter systems victimising noobs tbh
Edit:just give me my 800k sp and ill stop moaning about it all im saying is give a fair deal to all
Fair?
Newbies have 800k SPS, a year old player will have around 14-16million. 3 year vets are 40-50+ million.
And you say 'fair'.
These SPs are not a big deal and in a month or two, nobody's going to be *****ing about it.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Nez Perces
Amarr Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.11.26 08:21:00 -
[43]
This is an interesting problem..... and whilst on the face of it the OP does have a point.... I believe he/she also has got the wrong end of the stick completely about EVE.
The way you gain SP in EVE is a strange thing to get your head round.. gaining SP and playing the game are two completely different things and are not connected, other than your experiences guiding you in what to train next.
What you experience in game will affect your choice in training.... but playing the game itself is not related to gaining SP.
The question one has to ask oneself, is I am enjoying playing the game? Irrelevant of skill points... and the answer to that will be what keeps you in the game in the long run.. not how many SP you have.
Every step you take in EVE is unique, and is part of who your character becomes.. so the time you spent playing the game even with low SP is priceless..... you will never experience it again.. and when you have been playing for longer you will realise just how precious those times were when you were fumbling around working your way around the universe.
So in the end your low SP is part of the adventure.....you will meet people you may not meet again as a higher skill point character, and those relationships you made ingame could very well define the rest of your eve career. EVE is so much more than the skill points your character has.
Well thats the way I see it anyhow.
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Megilos
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Posted - 2006.11.26 09:12:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Kylania Edited by: Kylania on 26/11/2006 01:50:59 Edited by: Kylania on 26/11/2006 01:50:29 My bank is offering a free toaster to any new acounts that people open. I've had my acount for a decade. While it's perhaps a shame that I can't get the toaster, the bank doesn't owe me anything.
I was able to spend the money I earned from interest while having my account and using it to buy myself a toaster. Something I earned myself, rather than was given to em. I also know much more about using my account than someone that says "hey, toaster!" and starts this week.
So yeah, if you want a free toaster, start over. Otherwise take your knowledge and resources you have so far and buy yourself a toaster. Either way you get toast.
You are my hero. I want a plaque of this cast in bronze and bolted to my warp drive. :)
Seriously though, very good point. Though if you use the same analogy with retail, most stores offer some kind of price garantee for a period of days, et al. Whatever.
This too shall pass.
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Tyler Lowe
Minmatar DROW Org
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Posted - 2006.11.26 09:25:00 -
[45]
To be honest, the skillpoint adavantage is pretty meaningless within a very short period of time. The item that is not so meaningless is the new race attributes. I understand where you're coming from, but the real difference is in the new attribute totals. That never goes away. If CCP were going to give any sort of holiday gift, my vote would go towards a boost in the attributes of the original race selections to bring them in line with the new types.
I see a difference between offering a toaster and offering a better interest rate to new accounts to use the analogy above. J.A.F.O.
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Anglo
Minmatar Astral Mexicans
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Posted - 2006.11.26 10:20:00 -
[46]
i started 3.5 yars ago. i wanna get a reward too if any pre patch gets sp. not that meesly 800.000 would do anything. but i paid lots more than u guys did in those years so i want a reward.. just the fact u start with more sp is ODD. so stop whining. and play the game.. u wont get anything nore will we the old players. i will however make a lot of cyno alts when kali hits and that is very nice now u get that much sp as start... i will make routes all ower eve.
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viuva
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Posted - 2006.11.26 11:48:00 -
[47]
you know what ??? I agree with him
old players , Would you like to see a new player with almost the same points as you ???
yeah... you dont.. thats why agree with him !..
CCP give points to all... i understand what you wanna do... but be fair with all !
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Kyodai Koga
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Posted - 2006.11.26 12:34:00 -
[48]
Although I understand the OP concerns (i'm myself just a few months old, currently around 3.5M sp), I don't really care about the 800k the newbies starts with as this stage is far behind me now (even if it's true that newbies will have it a bit too easy I think, 400k would have been far sufficient).
However, I feel far more concerned with the new reqs of adv learnings only requiring lvl 4 in basics learnings to gain access to them. A lvl 5 in basic learning is around 6-7 days of training, so x4 (per/wil/mem/int) it's 24-28 days of training, nearly one full month of Eve only to gain access to adv learnings. It'll take me *a lot* of training time to compensate for these 24 days of learning 5 training. And now, as i'm not even finished to train all my learnings, CCP tells me that i've lost (yes, I care less about one point of attribute than the week it takes to train the skill, seeing the training time it'll take me to start getting profits from it) one full month of training ? For a four months old character, it's a bit harsh as I'll have to wait many months to compensate for this loss and start to get benefits from it.
What i'm asking for here is a respec of the Learnings for all characters. Let those that want it put only 4 lvl in learnings, get access to adv learnings and get back their month of training to put somewhere else.
In fact, if we don't get a respec of some kind, I fear this little yellow brick in each of the basic learnings will haunt me each time I'll open my character sheet until the end of my character life
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Roy Batty68
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Posted - 2006.11.26 12:42:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Tyler Lowe To be honest, the skillpoint adavantage is pretty meaningless within a very short period of time. The item that is not so meaningless is the new race attributes. I understand where you're coming from, but the real difference is in the new attribute totals. That never goes away. If CCP were going to give any sort of holiday gift, my vote would go towards a boost in the attributes of the original race selections to bring them in line with the new types.
I see a difference between offering a toaster and offering a better interest rate to new accounts to use the analogy above.
What? I didn't know there was an attribute total difference between the races. How much are we talking? Between a Deteis and an Achura for instance.
Originally by: Big Al
Well, if there was a law against stupidity, the server would certainly lag less.
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Kolbie
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Posted - 2006.11.26 13:12:00 -
[50]
I aggree with OP
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Illegal
KDM Corp Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.11.26 13:14:00 -
[51]
i loved every second of every hour i played EvE from my very first moment in the station, i totally disagree that the first 1mil SP are boring.
To be fair, on alts i've trained when i've done nothing but learning skills for the first 1.8mil SP, yeah, if that was my main it'd have been boring, but i also wouldnt have just done learning skills
On the contrary, i feel that its the later SP amounts, when you've had experience and time ingame, that is when it starts to get boring, not the beginning, all wide eyed and on that steep learning curve that never seems to end, like going up at that first climb on a rollercoaster, you know the rush is coming, but you'll be ****ed if you know when, you cant wait but on and on you go, climbing away --
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TheChrisD
Amarr Impact Inc. Serenus Letum
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Posted - 2006.11.26 13:36:00 -
[52]
I have to agree with Robert - even though I created my char as a trial account in June and didn't start playing again until September - I only have 500k skill points.
In-game my char has a load of good stuff - a powerful BC, good cash, and a few implants - but now that newbie characters are going to start with more than me sickens me.
I feel that all the pre-Revelations players should get a small amount of extra SP to spend as they wish - like possibly around 200-300k, or at least enough to cut about a week from our skill training time.
If CCP decide to do nothing, then it seems they don't really care much about their "veterans" and "old-timers", and instead care more for bringing in newbies who have no idea what they are doing - which will fill the game up with n00bs, and make it unplayable.
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Raneru
Gallente Euphoria Released
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Posted - 2006.11.26 14:15:00 -
[53]
It has been proved time and time again in Eve that SP is not a substitute for player skill and experience. Giving 800k to new players does not change anything, they still need to learn how the game works.
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Roy Batty68
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Posted - 2006.11.26 14:34:00 -
[54]
Originally by: TheChrisD I have to agree with Robert - even though I created my char as a trial account in June and didn't start playing again until September - I only have 500k skill points.
In-game my char has a load of good stuff - a powerful BC, good cash, and a few implants - but now that newbie characters are going to start with more than me sickens me.
I feel that all the pre-Revelations players should get a small amount of extra SP to spend as they wish - like possibly around 200-300k, or at least enough to cut about a week from our skill training time.
If CCP decide to do nothing, then it seems they don't really care much about their "veterans" and "old-timers", and instead care more for bringing in newbies who have no idea what they are doing - which will fill the game up with n00bs, and make it unplayable.
See, there's two lines of thought in the this thread that really make me want to pod someone.
1) Noobs just noob enough that they can really see how there is a difference between themselves and the new noobs who will begin with 800k. As if that somehow makes them special and different from the rest of us. In reality they are absolutely no different than me at 6 months or someone at 1 year, etc. At your point in EVE gameplay, you are exactly like I was when I was at 1-2 months in. So.What. Your choices are: - Reroll a new character OR - Quit whining and game on
2) The second line of thought is very common in MMOs and is displayed in TheChrisD post. The "I went to school barefoot in the snow so why should you kids have it easier" syndrom. As an example: I played Dark Age of Camelot for 3-4 years and I must say that skilling up a crafter in that game was one of the most boring and unfun things I have ever paid for to date. It was very obvious that that system needed to be improved. However, when Mythic finally got around to improving their crafting system, loads of people started complaining about how it would "devalue their skill levels" or "make it obvious that they didn't care about their veterans or old-timers"...
That's just immature. You are playing an MMO. MMOs by their very nature are constantly changing trying to improve the experience to attract new customers. If you think that the game shouldn't improve because it might somehow devalue your past experiences then YOU SHOULDN'T BE PLAYING MMOs! Your requirements are mutually exclusive to those of an MMO company! Again, your choices are: - Cancel your subscription (please!) OR - Quit whining and game on
Originally by: Big Al
Well, if there was a law against stupidity, the server would certainly lag less.
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Radamathadus
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Posted - 2006.11.26 14:46:00 -
[55]
The OP and all newer players to Eve have my sympathy regarding this change. I remember the challanges I faced in my first few months and the friends I made and the identity i carved out for myself. Telling them to suck it up and reroll is pretty insulting tbh. They might have only been playing for a short while but they are who they are and in there own ways have already contributed and left their marks upon the Eve universe.
Sure the Eve universe is unfair within the game but character creation itself should be balanced. 800k starting sp's is a great place for new players too enter the game and will hopefully increase the uptake from trial accounts.
But consider what percentage of your total sp's 800k is? For many it will be more than they currently have while for those upto 6 months old it will be a significant proportion.
Giving the whole player base a one off sp boost of 500 - 800k is entirely fair. It would make very little differance in the great scheme to veterans but would make a huge differance to the younger characters and allow them to continue without feeling cheated.
So I say give a one off boost as it is unarguably fair and come Thurday the natural eve order by date of character creation will be maintained. Of course it should be optional so those of you with strong moral objections can say "no" and maintain your personal integrity.
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Robert Ocean
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Posted - 2006.11.26 14:54:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Robert Ocean on 26/11/2006 14:56:22
Originally by: Radamathadus The OP and all newer players to Eve have my sympathy regarding this change. I remember the challanges I faced in my first few months and the friends I made and the identity i carved out for myself. Telling them to suck it up and reroll is pretty insulting tbh. They might have only been playing for a short while but they are who they are and in there own ways have already contributed and left their marks upon the Eve universe.
Sure the Eve universe is unfair within the game but character creation itself should be balanced. 800k starting sp's is a great place for new players too enter the game and will hopefully increase the uptake from trial accounts.
But consider what percentage of your total sp's 800k is? For many it will be more than they currently have while for those upto 6 months old it will be a significant proportion.
Giving the whole player base a one off sp boost of 500 - 800k is entirely fair. It would make very little differance in the great scheme to veterans but would make a huge differance to the younger characters and allow them to continue without feeling cheated.
So I say give a one off boost as it is unarguably fair and come Thurday the natural eve order by date of character creation will be maintained. Of course it should be optional so those of you with strong moral objections can say "no" and maintain your personal integrity.
Couldn't have explained better. Kudos mate.
Originally by: Raneru It has been proved time and time again in Eve that SP is not a substitute for player skill and experience. Giving 800k to new players does not change anything, they still need to learn how the game works.
You all seem not to get the point about experience. You're right, that newbie will need the same two months to learn how to play that I needed. But at the end of them two, he will have twice my SP!
It's not that I DIDN'T need the two months I played, It's just that if I had waited and started in revelations, I'd be twice as skilled with the same real life experience, and that, my friend, isn't in my honest opinion fair.
I'm not trying to abolish the change. I like it! It will even make some of my friends join EVE and that's just wonderful. I just want a little compensation for all the effort, all the goals I've been reaching, that now have became dust, since with a single click everyone can get them free.
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Naruto Jr
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Posted - 2006.11.26 15:44:00 -
[57]
I kinda feel ****ed off with this tho, I just activated a trial account 5 days ago, and to find out, that I should have waited for the new expansion... how am I gonna get those 14 days back on that trial account? and it only has 400k skillpoints... this aint fair for the new characters...
I'd say all accounts activated within the last 14 days should at least get another free 14 days...
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Locarna Lustram
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Posted - 2006.11.26 15:49:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Naruto Jr I kinda feel ****ed off with this tho, I just activated a trial account 5 days ago, and to find out, that I should have waited for the new expansion... how am I gonna get those 14 days back on that trial account? and it only has 400k skillpoints... this aint fair for the new characters...
I'd say all accounts activated within the last 14 days should at least get another free 14 days...
Cancel your account. Wait until Kali is released. Create a new trial account and start with 800k SP. Problem solved.
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Naruto Jr
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Posted - 2006.11.26 15:50:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Naruto Jr on 26/11/2006 15:52:24
Originally by: Locarna Lustram
Originally by: Naruto Jr I kinda feel ****ed off with this tho, I just activated a trial account 5 days ago, and to find out, that I should have waited for the new expansion... how am I gonna get those 14 days back on that trial account? and it only has 400k skillpoints... this aint fair for the new characters...
I'd say all accounts activated within the last 14 days should at least get another free 14 days...
Cancel your account. Wait until Kali is released. Create a new trial account and start with 800k SP. Problem solved.
You dont get it do you? its activated, its paid for... As I'm saying, CCP owes anyone who has activated an account within the last 14 days, at least another 14 days gametime... this is really ****** up...
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Kage Getsu
Lordless
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Posted - 2006.11.26 16:03:00 -
[60]
Skillpoint total doesn't matter as much as you'd think. It's not like generic level-based MMOs where level 60 is automatically better than level 59 in every way. _________________________________________________________
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