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Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
   |
Posted - 2006.11.26 01:41:00 -
[1]
Revelations I is just around the corner and with that a completely revised probe system. This post will try to serve as a guide to that system and I will do my best to keep it updated with any changes and other relevant information.
Scan probing in Revelations
This guide will focus on ship probing so if itÆs a guide to exploration or moon surveying you want you will have to look elsewhere. This guide assumes you posses at least basic control over how the Directional Scanner work.
To do scan probing we need a few things, namely a probe launcher, probes, a ship to mount it on and the skills to use them all.
Skills
- Astrometrics - Adds one scan group per level. Is the primary skill that determines what probes you can use.
For example all exploration probes require level 5 and so do Observator probes.
For combat ship probing level 3 will do fine unless the target is in a deep safe for which level 5 is need.
- Astrometric Pinpointing û Reduces maximum scan deviation by 10% per level.
Means that you can use a weaker probe and still get a result that lands you in the same grid as the target.
- Astrometric Triangulation û 5% scan strength bonus per level of skill.
Higher scan strength means easier to find the target and more accurate results.
- Signal Acquisition - 10% faster scanning with scan probes per level.
Must have skill, will cut scan time in half at level 5. Sadly itÆs rank 8.
Probe Launchers
There are 2 different probe launchers, Scan Probe Launcher I and Recon Probe Launcher I. They have similar fittings (220cpu, 1pg / 220cpu, 2pg) and despite its name the recon probe launcher is not force recon exclusive. It can be used on any ship.
- Scan Probe Launcher I û 600 sec base cycle time (can be cut down to 108.4 sec). 10m3 capacity. 15 sec rate of fire. Intended to be used for moon surveys and exploration.
- Recon Probe Launcher I û 120 sec base cycle time (can be cut down to 21.7 sec) 1m3 capacity 2.5 sec rate of fire. Intended to be used for ship probing.
The reason the Recon Probe Launcher can not be used for moon survey and exploration is the simple fact that the probes are too large to fit in it.
ItÆs not possible to fit multiple probe launchers on a ship, not even offline. You have to choose which one you want in advance.
Probes
There are 3 different groups of probes. Ship probes, exploration probes and survey probes.
Ship probes are the probes that fit into the Recon Probe Launcher. They include:
- Observator Deep Space Probe I - 1000 au range, 1 point sensor strength, 20.000 km max scan deviation, 4800 sec flight time.
- Ferret Scanner Probe I - 40 au range, 2.5 points sensor strength, 10.000 km max scan deviation. 2400 sec flight time.
- Spook Scanner Probe I - 20 au range, 5 points sensor strength, 5.000 km max scan deviation, 1200 sec flight time.
- Fathom Scanner Probe I - 10 au range, 10 points sensor strength, 2.500 km max scan deviation, 600 sec flight time.
- Snoop Scanner Probe I - 5 au range, 20 points sensor strength, 200 km max scan deviation, 300 sec flight time.
Range - The max range of the probe, this is a 3d sphere and the probe will not be able to find anything outside this range.
Sensor Strength - Higher sensor strength means larger chance to find the target and more accurate results.
Max Scan Deviation - The maximum distance from the target any scans with this probe will give.
Flight Time û The amount of time the probe stays in space. You need to finish any scan before the flight time runs out or it will fail.
All the other probes are uninteresting for ship scanning. While the exploration probes have very high sensor strength they also have very low range making them unsuited for ship probing.
-- Continues in next post --
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Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.26 01:42:00 -
[2]
Ships
The ship of choice for probing is the Covert Ops frigates. There are 2 reasons for this, one is the built in bonus of 10% reduction to scan time per level (level 5 cuts the scan time in half) and the other is the ability to warp cloaked. If you canÆt get a 0 m accuracy result you will need to warp in cloaked and approach manually.
Other ships that are useful for probing is the cloaking force recon ships for the warp cloaked ability and possibly the t1 astrometrics frigate as they have a 5% reduction to scan time per level. But in worst case any ship can be used.
Basic probing
So your target is sitting in afk in a safe spot and you want to find him? This is how itÆs done.
First warp around a bit and see if you can find him on the directional scanner. If you can see him; get to the closest object and drop the needed probe. Use the range option on your scanner to determine which probe is needed. 5 au = 750.000.000 km, 10 au = 150.000.000.000 km. So if you can get within 750.000.000 km use the 5au probe etc. Max range of the directional scanner is 14.5 au.
If you canÆt find him on the scanner you need to use longer range probes, probably Observator Deep Space Probes or possibly 40 au Ferret probes.
After you launch the probe open your scanner, selec the System Scanner tab, select the probe and select the ôShipsö group (you might as well include as many groups as your astrometrics skill allow, there is no penalty in using several groups).
Click ôAnalyzeö at the bottom of the window. A timer will appear counting down. If you want you can cloak now but do NOT warp away. If you do the scan will fail. You can switch to the Directional Scan tab and use that without breaking the probe.
When the timer reaches 0 you will get a list with results. If your target is not in this list donÆt fret it. The probing system is now chance base and you might need to scan several times (20+ if you are looking for a very small ship with an observator probe). But first recheck your scanner to see that he is in range of the probe you choose. If he is in range just click ôNew Scanö and hit analyze again. Repeat until the target is found.
You can also see the results on the system map as colored dots. The color indicate the Signal strength.
0-0.4 = yellow
0.4-0.8 = green
0.8+ = red
You can warp to the results by right click on them and choose warp to. But at the time of writing that feature is bugged and will take you to a random result instead of the one you chose. Therefore you should use the results list on the scanner window instead.
In the result list there are 4 columns. The first is ship type, second is signal strength (more about that in the advanced guide), third is the range from your current position and forth is Accuracy. Accuracy is the range from the spot the probe provides to the target.
Accuracy is determined by several factors where the most important is the probe type and signal strength (see advanced section for formulas). Longer range probes give larger max deviation from the target. There is also some randomness involved here so a new scan might give a more accurate result (or worse). If you can get the Signal Strength above 1.0 with 1 probe you will always get 0m accuracy and can warp in right on top of the target.
As long as you are using ship probes you should never get an accuracy result above 20.000 km
If the accuracy is not good enough to get inside the same grid as the target you might need to launch and scan with a shorter range probe. Warp to the result by right clicking on it and choose warp to. Click new scan and right click on the probe you used and choose ôdestroy probeö. The reason for this is the fact that you can not launch a probe within the scan radius of another probe. Now launch a 5au (snoop) probe and scan with that. Worst case scenario with that probe will land you just 200km away, most likely a lot closer.
-- Continues in next post --
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Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.26 01:43:00 -
[3]
Advanced Probing
Signal Strength
Signal Strength decides how large the chance is that the target will show up on a given scan and also effect accuracy. A Signal strength of 0.5 means 50% chance, 1.0 or more give 100% chance etc.
Signal strength is a factor of the sensor strength of the probe, the signal size of the target, the range from the probe to the target and any skills you might have.
Sensor strength is listed in the probe attributes.
Target Signal Size = Target Signature Radius / Target Sensor Strength
Large target = easier to find, target with high sensor strength = harder to find. These values can be modified, a target with several shield extenders will have larger signature radius and be easier to find while a target with ECCM will have higher sensor strength and will be harder find.
Range is something close to the following formula. It is not 100% accurate but should be good enough for most practical purposes. If anyone wants to take a shot at finding a better formula let me know and I will provide you with sample data.
Range Multiplier = (1 û (0.65 ((Target Range / Max Range)^1.5))
Target Range is the range from the probe to the target, Max Range is the Scan Range listed for that probe type.
This formula will return a result between 1 (at 0km) and 0.35 (at very close to max range).
The full formula to calculate Signal Strength is:
Signal Strength = (Probe Sensor Strength * (1 + Level of Signal Acquisition * 0.05) / 100) * (1 û (0.65 ((Target Range / Max Range) ^ 1.5))) * (Target Signature Radius / Target Sensor Strength)
A math example: we are using a Ferret 40 au probe to try to locate a Scorpion 35 au away. We have Signal Acquisition level 3.
Signal Strength = (2.5 * (1 + 3*0.1) / 100) * (1 - (0.65 ((35 / 40) ^ 1.5))) * (480 / 24) = 0.304 or 30.4% chance it will show up on our scan.
Accuracy
Accuracy is a factor of the max scan deviation, the signal strength of the scan, any skills you might have and a random number.
If the signal strength of the probe is 1.0 or more the accuracy will always be 0m (unless you are using multiple probes).
The formula to calculate Maximum effective Scan Deviation is:
Maximum effective Scan Deviation = Maximum Scan Deviation * ((0.6 * (Signal Strength ^ 2)) û (1.6 * Signal Strength) + 1) * (1 - Level of Astrometric Pinpointing * 0.1)
The accuracy of the scan is then a linear random range between 0km and the Max effective Scan deviation. Linear meaning itÆs just as likely to return 0 as it is to return max eff scan dev or anything between.
Math example: We will use the scorp from the last example, we also have astrometric pinpointing level 3.
Max effective Scan Deviation = 10000 * ((0.6 * (0.304 ^ 2)) - (1.6 * 0.304) + 1) * (1 - 3 * 0.1) = 3983km. So each successful scan will give a random accuracy between 0km and 3983km. This means there is a 12.5% chance you will get a result in the same grid as the target.
-- Continues in next post --
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Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 01:44:00 -
[4]
Multiple Probes
You can use multiple probes to affect the outcome of the scan. The probes need to be dropped so the target is inside the intersection of the probes but so that the probes are not located inside the scan range of any other probe.
Using multiple probes effect 2 things, Signal Strength and Accuracy.
Signal strength is the signal strength of each individual probe added together and divided by some yet to be determined modifier. This modifier is larger for shorter range probes and is large enough so that if you combine 2 probes of very different range (5 + 20 or 20 + 40) you will actually get a result that less than if you just used the shorter range probe alone.
Accuracy of multiple probes is better than a single probe would be but worse than the effective signal strength would indicate. So even if you can get the signal strength above 1.0 you will still not get 0m accuracy. 1/10th of the maximum scan deviation seems to be the best you can obtain using multiple probes.
Using multiple probes are for most practical purposes inefficient, you are better of using the time it takes to find positions for the extra probes to just do more scans with just 1 probe. BUT there is one exception from this.
The only practical use of multiple probes are to drop 2 or 3 Spook (20 au) probes just outside the scanner range (14.5au) of the target. This allows you to run a scan which if you have trained several levels of Astrometric Pinpointing will land you 250-500km from the target; in the same grid as it without ever being seen on his scanner.
Rigs
There is one rig that effect scan probing.
Gravity Capacitor Upgrade. The T1 version give 10% less scan time and the T2 15%. The reduction is not stacking penalised.
Directional Scanner
ItÆs still possible to see probes on the directional scanner by setting it to not use overview settings, even easier now as a lot of stuff like npcs and roids have been removed from this list so it will come up much faster and be less clutered.
To counter act this we now have the ability to destroy the probes at will by right clicking on it in the system scanner tab and choose destroy probe, you can even do this while cloaked. Destroying a probe will not destroy the results so you can go back and look at them by clicking view results.
You should destroy your probes as soon as you got the results you want from them, especially short range probes. Done right it should only show up on the scanner of the target for around 30-40 sec, short enough time for him to miss it.
Cloaked ships
At the time of writing it is NOT possible to probe for cloaked ships. A dev said in a blog it would be possible to probe for them but it seems they either changed their mind, forgot about it or haven't got it to work yet.
Known Bugs
ItÆs not possible to use the results shown on the system map to warp to them. Doing so will warp you to a random result.
ItÆs possible to drop multiple probes so that one probe is completely inside the range of another. This is done by dropping the smaller probe first and then the larger probe outside the range of the smaller one. Doing this will probably be considered an exploit so don't do it (considering how useless multiple probes are, especially when you combine probes of different range I don't really see this as very important).
Attributes window show sensor strength truncated. This is most apparent on Ferret probe as it is shown to have 2 points strength but in reality have 2.5 points. You will also notice this on other probes if you have trained the probe strength skill and look at them fitted.
There still seem to be some issues with the displaying of probe spheres on the system map. They sometimes appear off centre from their dropped position.
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Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.26 01:45:00 -
[5]
-- Reserved --
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Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 12:36:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Kunming
But all I have to say is:
More chance based game mechanics YAY!... NOT!!
I thought CCP learned something out of the ECM fiasco.. With each passing day EVE is turning into a chance based game of chess
I my opinion it's not so much about chance but mostly about statistics. If you have 30% chance to find someone that means on avg you need to do 3-4 scans before you find him, sometime less, sometimes more. If one scan takes you 30 sec than that target should take you 1.5-2min to find.
I guess they could have designed some system where harder to find ships required a much longer scan but such a system would be complicated to do with how modules work in eve. So they made a system that have in many ways the same practical effect.
Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski
They mentioned the possibility of probing cloaked ships, is it harder to find cloaked ships or it gives out the same results as if it wasn't cloaked at all?
Atm probing for cloaked ships on SiSi is like probing for cloaked ships on TQ, they won't show up at all.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 15:59:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Radioactive Babe
Very nice guides guys ... thanks
/me hugs astrometrics 5 and cov ops 4
Can anyone tell me what ranks those new skills are?
Astrometrics 5 and cov ops 5 here :)
Astrometric Pinpointing and Astrometric Triangulation are rank 5 and requires Astrometrics level 4 and 3 respectively, Signal Acquisition is rank 8 and requires Science level 3.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 17:06:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Aakron
edit: can anyone tell me (if they are on sisi) how much the probe bpos are seeded for
Ship and Survey probe BPOs are not seeded (at least not in caldari space). Exploration probe BPOs cost 4.6m each.
They have similar material requirements as Warp Disruptor Probes so in addition to the normal minerals they also requires Hypersynaptic fibers, Nanotransistors and Strontium Clathrates.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 17:47:00 -
[9]
The scan groups are:
Drone & Probe - As the name says, drones and probes (only scan probes, warp distrupt probes are not picked up).
Scrap - This group was named Containers for a while and at that time could be used to find cans, now I have no idea what it picks up (does not pick up wrecks).
Ships - Player Ships, no npcs.
Cosmic Signature - Exploration content, don't know about mission gate and similar.
Structure - Pos structures, haven't tested to search for npc mission structures but I don't think it works on them.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 21:54:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
What about Survey? Is it changing to something else, or does it only affect exploration and survey probes?
Sorry but I can't help you there, never did any surveying before kali and have not tested it in kali. I think it says the same but don't quote me on it.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
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Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.26 23:52:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Seramyr d'Elia
Minor quibble. I'm still fairly new to this game, but using the standard km:AU conversion formula and the max range the directional scanner defaults to after inputting some ludicrously high value, I come up with a 14.32AU scanning sphere rather than the 14.5AU in your guide. Am I just missing something basic?
No you are correct I just rounded it slightly in my guide. The exact range should be 14.355 au.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 12:58:00 -
[12]
Why make a special launcher for recon ship? They are not the ship you use supposed to use for probing, it's the covert ops and t1 astrometrics frigates that ccp wants serving that role.
If you give recon ships the same or better probing bonuses as covert ops then the reason to fly covert ops are quickly disappearing.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 14:35:00 -
[13]
Originally by: welsh wizard
Nice guide Hoshi!
I heard rumours about being able to probe and scan down covert ships!? Is this true? If so :(
 Is this a serious question or are people trying to drive me insane?
Check the last post in the guide and check here:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=432210
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 22:26:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Dave Tehsulei
Can anchored containers be probed now ?
I tried a few times without success on sisi
No, when kali first came live on sisi one of the scan groups was named Containers and could be used to scan for cans. Now that group is named Scrap and seems to find nothing.
Cans (both jet cans and anchored) don't even show up on the directional scanner anymore.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 22:52:00 -
[15]
Update: The bug where if you used the system map to warp to scan results you would end up at the wrong result has now been fixed.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.29 04:03:00 -
[16]
Seems they forgot to seed Recon Probe Launcher I so no ship probing for a while sadly.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.29 04:03:00 -
[17]
Seems they forgot to seed Recon Probe Launcher I so no ship probing for a while sadly.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.29 12:36:00 -
[18]
Update: The Recon Probe Launcher I BPO is seeded but they forgot to add a market group for it so we can't see it. Probably need a client patch to fix (unconfirmed) so don't expect them for a week
Originally by: Jiekon
the blueprint will be seeded soon, for some reason the blueprint didn't have a market group.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.29 16:52:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Skybar
Suggestion: Make a note in that first post that there is a different between the racial quest probes and "Quest Survey Probe".
I still don't fully understanding probing (not astro at V yet), but I know that one made me confused.
Well considering I only talk about ship probing I don't really see the reason. Neither the Quest Survey probe nor the Quest Exploration probe set are useful for ship probing, so even if you mistake them for each other you are not going to mistake any of them for ship probes.
It should definitively be included in a exploration or survey guide.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.29 18:32:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Phichi
I'm kinda tired so this might be a stupid question. The recon probe launcher is meant for ship scanning. Does this mean that I cannot use the scan probe launcher for ship scanning anymore?
You can but it's not optimal. It takes much longer (5x) to run a scan with it. If you don't have good skills + covert some probes are likely to timeout before the scan finishes.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
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Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.29 20:44:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Sevyc
I just took my buzzard out with an old scan probe launcher, and some old probes, just to mess around with the new system (hadn't gotten to play with it on sisi, since ive been too busy IRL).
I fired off a snoop (3au) probe, and started a scan. Imagine my dismay when I saw the counter was ticking down from 360 seconds. Shouldn't my scan time with Covert ops 4, and Survey 3 be a lot less than that? Is this a bug? Can anyone else confirm they are getting the proper bonus from their covert ops ship?
Thanks!
Survey have no effect on scan probes, it's for cargo scanners and similar mods. The skill you want to train is Signal Acquisition (as it says in my guide :) ).
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.30 17:34:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Santa Claw
Edited by: Santa Claw on 30/11/2006 15:15:34
Edited by: Santa Claw on 30/11/2006 15:12:49
Originally by: Hoshi
Advanced Probing
The full formula to calculate Signal Strength is:
Signal Strength = (Probe Sensor Strength * (1 + Level of Signal Acquisition * 0.05) / 100) * (1 û (0.65 ((Target Range / Max Range) ^ 1.5))) * (Target Signature Radius / Target Sensor Strength)
Sure that Signal Acuisition is the right skill in this formula?
It gives a 10% time Bonus. I think the right skill would be Astrometric Triangulation.
ops, correcting now, thank you :)
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 12:02:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Mario delTorres
good job
but 1 AU = about 150.000.000 km recount please your guide.
Where does it say anything else in my guide? I rounded the max range of the scanner for 14.35 to 14.5au but that was intentional and hardly important.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 13:08:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Killer Madafaka
10AU = 1.500.000.000 not 150.000.000.000
Edited: this is me :) Mario delTorres.
Ah added 3 zeros instead of 1 for 10 au :) Thank you
Originally by: maarud
I may be wrong about this, but the probes for exploration don't need lvl V in astrometrics, it was like this on the test server, but it's not like that any more.
They need lvl II, III and IV.
You might wanna double check my info tho.
Shortly before Revelations was released the skill requirements for exploration probes on SiSi changed to what you are showing here, they are still like that on SiSi.
But for some strange reason that change never made it to TQ and they still require level 5 there. Bug? Intended? I don't know but I'll update it if I find out.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 15:49:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Auldare
Anyone got a breakdown on the scan time modifiers?
Currently get 210 sec with scan probe launcher using Astrometrics 5 Cov-ops 5 and Signal Aq 3.
Can't for the life of me work out how it can be cut down to 108.4sec with rigs Signal Aq 5 etc etc
600 * 0.5 (covert ops 5) * 0.5 (signal acq 5) * 0.85 (t2 rig) * 0.85 (t2 rig) = 108.375 sec
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.02 10:00:00 -
[26]
Not sure what problems you have but you look at it like this.
The signal strength is the factor of multiplying 3 things: The probe sensor strength, the range factor and the signal size of the target.
If we call the the sensor strength S, the range R and the signal size T the formula would be: Signal Strength = S * R * T
Where
S = Probe strength * skills / 100
R = 1-(0.65((range/max range)^1.5))
T = Target Signature Radius / Target Sensor Strength
In your example T would be 500 / 22 = 22.27
If put a 50% backup array on the raven the sensor strength becomes 33 so now his signal size T is cut to 500/33 = 15.15
This means is signal size is now 32% less than before which means the signal strength of the scan will also be 32% less than before.
Then you need to input the probe strength and range to get the final signal strength and use that signal strength to calculate the accuracy.
Hopefully I made things easier to understand and not harder now :)
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.03 01:43:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Hoshi on 03/12/2006 01:44:46
Originally by: Veto1024
Great guide but I have a few questions.
Can you use the original scanner problems such as the Fathom and Ferret and Snoop probes to find exploration sites or must you use these new Gravimetric/Ladar/Radar/Magnetometric quest/swift/pursuit/comb probes? Also, what about this observator deep space probe? What is that good for? It seems like a big waste of money to drop say, 10 probes into 10 planets in a system at 150k each (although getting a bpo helps reduce that cost ;)) and get a site with a few cruisers and destroyers. Plus of course, it sounds like you'll need a few probes to get a spot down. How do you know when you've stumbled upon an actual exploration site?
Thanks for the help!
You can use snoop probes, I succeeded in finding a guristats complex site with snoops on the test server. In theory it could even be faster to use snoop than quest but as they has such a short flight time you are going to use up A LOT of probes and you are going to have to move a around to redeploy them a lot.
I wouldn't bother with the other probes, they have too weak sensor strength to be useful, sure you can pick up a site with an observator but you could just as easily sit scanning for 23h and still not pick it up.
Price for probes when they settle down should be around 50-60k.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.03 23:56:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Imperil
Well I did a scan, got perfect results for warpin for a Stilletto and two Vespa I drones. However, the Large Caldari Tower, had the worst signal strength and accuracy about a couple of million km's. This seem rather strange to me? The larger the object the harder it is to find? 
As said in the guide the Signal Size of an object is it's Signature Radius / Sensor Strength. While on avg larger ships end up with a larger signal size it's not always true.
One good example is Carriers which while larger than battleships also have a very high sensor strength and as such end up being a smaller target for probes (around battle cruiser size). Motherships having even better sensors ends up even smaller (cruiser size).
A pos has the sensor strength of 1000 and as such ends up being very small.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 00:43:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Imperil
That seem very stupid if you ask me. But hey, at least it follows the CCP standard. [:(
Personally I think it's a very good system, it removes the need to hand set the size of every single probable object while still giving most ships the same or close to same size as they would been given if it where set by hand.
Are there some ships/objects that stand out and might need adjusting? Yes and in the patch on tuesday one set of object (drones) is being adjusted. We might see a few more similar fixes later when this system has been tested in practice for a while. But as a whole the system is sound a working well.
If there is an object that you think is too easy or too hard to find then why don't you bugreport it instead of whining about it here?
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 12:30:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Elfman
In fact it seems easier to find all cladari ships than say minmatar. (could be just where I have been testing there's more cladari ships)
In avg (not taking shield extenders into account) minmatar are the hardest to find, followed by caldari, gallante and amarr (in that order).
There are ships in many classes that stand out from this (heron and burst, caldari and minmatar frig are the 2 easiest frigs to find for example) but it can be used as a general rule.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
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Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 12:37:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Mindlles
Well hopfully more stuff to blow up in the end off the day annyway !
Yeah that's what I am putting my faith in, no more having 2 fleets in 2 different deeps safes smacking in local. No more probing for 30 -60 min only to report to your FC that sadly the probing gods are not on our side tonight and we won't get any action.
If less probe complexity is the key to more combat then so be it.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 17:30:00 -
[32]
Update: Recon Probe Launcher I BPO is now seeded and it's on longer possible to launch a probe so another probe ends up within its scan range.
Both bugs have been test and confirmed fixed by me.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.06 00:47:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Edited by: Tsanse Kinske on 06/12/2006 00:17:50
Is it necessary to have Astrometrics 5 for Exploration? I couldn't find anything obvious requiring it at that level beyond Observators, and I don't think those come into play except for ship scanning.
No there was a stealth change in the patch today that lowered the skill requirements from astro 5 to 2-4 depending on range (you will in practice need level 4).
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 00:01:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Aramendel
Apopolgies if it is a noob question, but...
Is it impossible to probe out anchorable cans (large standard container, etc)?
No, they don't even show up on the directional scanner anymore.
Originally by: Mario delTorres
I think no one covops have as many calibration points to use 2 rigs t2. T2 rig need 300calibration points but covops have only 400. Then 2x t1 or 1xt2 and something else.
You are probably right, when I tested rigs on SiSi they hadn't added calibration yet. In that case the best you can get is 121.5 sec instead (2 x t1 rig).
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.07 19:28:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Gatehopper
Hello;
Couple questions.
It talks about patterning the probes around a system next to planets but it also says not to warp away. So do you scan a planet at a time or can you drop all the probes and then warp to a safe spot and scan.
It is asserted that a covert ops is necessary. It seems that this would only decrease the scan time and of course allow you to cloak. Is there any other advantages?
You can not warp once you have started the scan but what you can do is place a probe, warp to next place, place next etc until all probes are down. Then you open the scan window, select all probes at the same time and start a scan.
Those are the "only" two advantages of covert ops yes. For exploration you don't need a covert ops, the scan speed bonus is very nice (half the time at level 5) but not needed. But if you are probing for hostile ships a covert ops is very much requiered. Here time is everything and not being seen when you warp in is a must.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 22:45:00 -
[36]
New probe on Sisi.
Multispectral Frequency Probe
The Multispectral Frequency Probe scans the entire solar system for multispectral frequencies, and gives a readout on which types of frequencies exist.
Volume: 1.25 m3 (so only for Scan Probe Launcher)
Strength: 1,000,000 points to all types
Flight Time: 600.00 Sec
Range: 999 AU
Requires Astrometrics Level 1.
Not seeded so I can't test it yet.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.09 11:22:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Sexorella hotz
Edited by: Sexorella hotz on 09/12/2006 04:03:00
Seems 21.7s is not the lowest possible scan time on the recon launcher, its around 25-26 with rigs. I'm guessing perhaps you counted survey as part of the time reduction? I've since tested that and survey has no affect. So 120*.5*.5*.85 is best reduction you can get, that's covops 5, signal aquisition 5, and the t2 rig for scan time.
A picky point but it annoyed me
I counted 2x t2 rigs. At the time I did the math they had yet to introduce calibration on sisi.
With 2x t1 (which should fit) it becomes 24.3 sec
There are lots of small things like that that needs updating but I'll wait until CCP is down with their changes and update it all at the same time.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.10 02:36:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Kaiu
How do i scan out hidden belts now?
Since roids dont show on system scanner and i cant select them on scan probes :(
There are 2 types of hidden belts, one is the new temporary type which is part of the exploration system and can be probed down by using that.
The other are bugged belts, belts that have spread out to cover more than the grid they are supposed to reside in. Those belts will be fixed so they are no longer spread out according to TomB (dev).
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.10 14:07:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Ficti0n
Read patch notes OP.
Think the guide needs updated respectively
Not going to update it until I have tested what it means in practice. Patch notes are all well and good but we all know how often they differ from reality.
SiSi has been down more or less since the patch notes where posted so I have not been able to test it yet.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.10 19:27:00 -
[40]
They seems to have completely borked scanning on sisi.
Even with signal strengths up to 4-5 the targets still only show up once in every 20-30 scans. Doesn't matter if the target is in a deadspace area or not.
As it is now it would be faster to scan with the old probe system.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
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Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.11 20:15:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Admiral Tso
if you have the accuracty of a scan down to 0km and you warp in cloaked in a covops, would that decloak you?
Yes but you don't have to warp in at 0km, you can warp in at 10 or what ever you want.
For Simon Jax:
I will test it again when I get home but yesterday probes where completely borked on sisi (see post earlier in the thread) and the multispectral probe had yet to be seeded.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.13 01:21:00 -
[42]
Another patch on sisi and still no multispectral probe seeded.
It seems my earlier finding about probes being borked was in a way a bug and in a way a feature. For a time everything counted as it was a deadspace area. What does this mean in practice?
It means the whiners got their wish granted, it is now for all intent and purpose impossible to scan for mission runners (or any ship in a deadspace area).
There is an around 1/30 (3%) chance that a scan that would normally be successful will return a ship in a deadspace area. I don't know the exact number as I don't want to make the several hundred scans necessary to make this statistically correct. It could be even less.
You don't have to be inside the deadspace area, it's enough that you sit at the gate leading into it.
An accepted mission stays for a week, this means that if you get a mission in a system you end up with a safe for a week that is safer than a deep safe was in the old scan system. To find a battleship in a deadspace area with a ferret probe is going to take in the area of 50 to 100 scans which means around 30-60 minutes with really good skills.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.13 12:22:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Xebov Darklight
So Ships Inside Deadspace got some kind of Sensorstrength-bonus as long as they are inside the Mission.
No they don't get a sensor strength bonus, once you find them they have the exact same signal strength as normal. It's a separate new roll to see if they can be found or not.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.13 15:12:00 -
[44]
A few more tests run on scanning for mission runners, nothing conclusive yet but it points to my earlier test being slightly off.
What I am now seeing is the effective signal strength is cut by 100. If the scan window show 1.0 the signal strength used for the calc was just 0.01 (1% chance).
Effectively it will have the same effect as I said in my last post, mission areas are not scannalble anymore, they have become super safes.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.18 01:17:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Atreides Horza
Can someone please confirm whether or not scanning probes can be picked up on the directional scanner as an indication that someone is looking for you? Or what?
Yes you can see them on the directional scanner (if you turned off filter by overview settings).
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.18 12:00:00 -
[46]
Update: The original posts are now updated with the correct range formula as discovered by Daron.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
|
Posted - 2006.12.22 23:24:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Drake Doon
Are you sure the signal strength/color is correct? It differs from what TomBs post on Improved Scanning indicates.
I know it differs but I also know my list is correct. At least unless something has changed in the last 48h on both TQ and SiSi.
What TomB wrote was probably what was intended but I would guess they made a mistake in the implementation.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
|
Posted - 2006.12.28 14:46:00 -
[48]
Originally by: ArrrrJimLad
However, I just wanted to point out that in your original post the example for signal strength doesn't match the formula you stated... (see the bold text in the quote for mini-spot the difference competition  )
Otherwise, nice work! 
Opps :=) Thank you fixed now.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 19:10:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Drake Doon
Again, great work Hoshi. I frequently visit this thread. May I suggest highlighting your edits somehow so it's easier to see what you've updated?
One more for you. Your signal strength formula has a constant of 0.05 that changed to 0.1 in the example. What causes this change?
Opps more errors :) As for the highlighting, I have hit the char limit in several of the posts so to do something like that I would need to restructure the whole guide. Not going to happen anytime soon sorry.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
|
Posted - 2007.01.05 22:51:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Drake Doon
Missed one. And I meant to ask this one too. What are you using to get the 12.5%?
You have to land within 500km to be in same grind (more or less depends on where in the grid he is but on avg, can be more or less but from a chance based view it evens out and with can say 500km always).
500 = 12.5% of 4000 so that is the chance that the scan will land you close enough. Guess I should edit it to 11.5% now with the changed math.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.01.16 11:57:00 -
[51]
Having read through the guide in E-ON I have found no major error, just 2-3 small so I am not going to bother doing an errata. What I will do is post the last chapter of the guide that was cut out due to space limitation. It's about avoiding being found by probes.
From the eyes of the victim
In the name of fairness, I must give some tips to potential probe targets on how to avoid being found. The most powerful defence is the cloak as if you are cloaked, you can not be found. There have been some indications that this might change in the future but at the time of writing this holds true. You can also fit ECCM as increasing your sensor strength makes you a smaller target for probes. This will not stop people from finding you but it can delay them considerably.
You can use your Directional Scanner to check if there are probes nearby. It will show probes if set to not filter by overview. If you see the probes on the scanner, you know someone is looking for you and you should start moving. You are going to need to check the scanner often; if itÆs a skilled hunter with both plentiful experience and many skill points in probe skills, the probes will only show up on your scanner for around 30-40 seconds. ItÆs also possible that you might catch his ship uncloaked as he needs to drop the cloak to launch probes and start scans.
Be a moving target
If your ship has a micro warp drive and you can run it constantly a good defence is to just point yourself straight up or down and activate the MWD. While you wonÆt be harder to find, it wonÆt matter because once the hunter gets to the position returned by the probes, you are already far away. Just donÆt go afk doing this; it is possible that their group will include an even faster ship than yours that can overtake you if given enough time. ItÆs also possible they might warp in a battleship and snipe you before you get out of range.
Another tactic to avoid being caught is to keep warping around between safe spots. This used to be an almost 100% sure safe tactic but with the new ultra short scan times, itÆs possible they might catch one of your safes just after you've left and then just sit there and wait until the next time you return to it.
*poof*
Finally, we have the controversial but highly effective option to log off. Just make sure you donÆt have an aggression timer when you log off. This timer is invisible and is started when the last offensive action from you against someone else or someone else against you happened, essentially the last PvP action you were involved in. If you log off during that 15 minute long aggression timer, your ship will stay in space for another 15 minutes, which gives your hunters plenty of time to find and kill you. If you did not have an aggression timer, your ship will disappear after just 1 minute, which is almost certainly too short to both find and kill you.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
|
Posted - 2007.01.25 17:21:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Yseult Atreus
Anyone know what it's possible to get the (exploration) probe scan time down to?
Slightly over 2 minutes with covert ops 5, sig analysis 5 and 2 scan speed rigs.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
|
Posted - 2007.02.16 12:29:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Behedwin
I it posseble to use explorations probes to find player ships?
Sure the scan time is longer and flight time to...
But the multispectral frequency probe have 1mil points scan strength and 999 au range compared to the observator deep space probe that have 1 pont scan strength and 1000au range.
Or have i missunderstod the hole thing?
Multispectral probe can not be used for finding ships, it only returns exploration sites and it only returns the fact that there is one is system or not, it doesn't give location so it would be mostly meaningless anyway.
The other exploration probes can be used but they have as you say much longer scan time and very short range. Unless you are looking for a mission runner in a deadspace area which is located less than 3-4 au away they are not really useful.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
|
Posted - 2007.02.21 16:01:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Dirty Rider
Ok thats cool with the probes, but my main quetion still stands.
Is it possibal to find my MIA secure cargo containers with scan probes or do i have to contuine to just make random bookmarks hoping to get lucky and find themm agian
Again thank you Yseult Atreus for your timely awnser
No you can not find cans with probes. Only thing I can suggest is to send in a petition and pray.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
|
Posted - 2007.03.01 13:46:00 -
[55]
e is the base of the natural logarithm.
ln(e^x)=x
Like Pi it has an unlimited amount of decimals but is approximately equal to 2.718
And yes last line would be the correct way of saying it with words yes. Maybe I should have added another set of () to make it clearer.
The Signal Size of the target site should be:
Signal Size = Signal Strength / ((Probe Sensor Strength * (1 + Level of Astrometric Triangulation * 0.05) / 100) * (e^-((Target Range / Max Range)^2)))
Signal Strength here is the value returned by your scan.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
|
Posted - 2007.03.19 11:26:00 -
[56]
Originally by: eatingyak
Edited by: eatingyak on 19/03/2007 01:52:24
Quote:
Other ships that are useful for probing is the cloaking force recon ships for the warp cloaked ability ...
I have heard people say force recon ships cannot use Covert Ops Cloak II for cloaked warping?
Each race has 2 Recon Ships, one that is called a Combat Recon (Curse, Rook, Lachesis, Huginn) and one that is called a Force Recon (Pilgrim, Falcon, Arazu, Rapier). The Force recon ships can fit and use and warp cloaked with a Covert Ops Cloak, the Combat recon ships can not.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
|
Posted - 2007.03.22 20:21:00 -
[57]
The /100 is not really part of the skill level modifier. It's supposed to read more like: (Probe strength * skill mod)/100
* normally have priority over / but most of the time in math it doesn't really matter in which order you multiply and divide stuff.
Skill mod here would then be equal to (1 + skill level * 0.05) which if you have level 4 would be equal to (1 + 4 * 0.05) = (1 + 0.2) = 1.2 as * have priority over +.
So if probe strenght is 10, skill level is 4 it would read as
10 * (1 + 4 * 0.05) / 100 = 10 * (1 + 0.2) / 100 = 10 * (1.2) / 100 = 12 / 100 = 0.12
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
Phalanx Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.04.19 11:37:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Bob Farsenbruck
so you mean i can find safe where there are Standard Cargo Containers or Secure Cargo Containers anchored???
What about capsules? I think is in ship group, but not sure.
Thank u.
Capsules are in the ship group yes. As far as I know the Scrap group still doesn't pick up anything, neither cans nor wreaks nor anything else.
It was for a short time during the beta testing on sisi that they picked up cans but it was changed before it went live.
I think the idea is still that it will pick up wrecks but as it stands just allowing people to scan for wrecks would make it too easy to find mission runners while they are doing their mission.
Hopefully there are some workaround being developed so both the mission runners and the salvager's can be happy.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
Phalanx Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.04.21 12:38:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Adril Alatar
the 21,7 seconds are not reachable
There is no ship with scan probe launcher bonus and enough calibration points for 2 t2 gravity capacitor upgrade rigs. They use 300 calibration points each.
On a covert ops you can only fit 2 t1 rigs and the best cycle time possible is 24,3 seconds.
Thought I had already updated that, well done now at least.
Originally by: Roemy Schneider
hummm any details about multiple probes, yet?
- just wondering 'cause warp-bookmarking can be a p.i.t.a with my internet connection/the servers on weekends (not sure which). basically i'm wondering if a large collection of tetrahedrons might prove useful in my favourite systems  
Not really, back on sisi during the testing I had setup a nice system with loads of BMs perfectly placed to do multi probe testing but then they first made all bookmarks stop working and then a new mirror which meant I would have to redo all the work. Didn't feel very motivated to redo all the work and I haven't got around to it since.
If you want to can give you the sample data I do have, maybe you can make something out of it.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
Phalanx Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.04.30 14:57:00 -
[60]
Originally by: D'Uai Petopolix
Has anyone successfully scanned down pos modules? I have repeatedly tried it with no results. And if it is not possible to scan for pos modules, then what is included in the scan group "structures"? Only pos towers perhaps? Or NPC structures?
I have probed them successfully several times. They just have a very low Signal Size.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.08 13:23:00 -
[61]
Multispectrals and other exploration probes only pick up exploration sites and static complexes. They don't pick up mission sites. The best you can do is probe down the person inside the mission while he is doing it.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
Phalanx Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.05.25 11:04:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Sprzedawczyk
"
Signal Strength decides how large the chance is that the target will show up on a given scan and also effect accuracy. A Signal strength of 0.5 means 50% chance, 1.0 or more give 100% chance etc."
You say...yet I had multiple situations where sig strenght 1.1 required average of...10 scans.
so, bug or wrong guessing?
If the target is inside a deadspace field (mission for example) the effective signal strength is divided by a large number (I think 100 but not 100% sure) BUT the scan window will still display the unmodified signal strength. This is probably what you are seeing.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
Phalanx Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.05 13:04:00 -
[63]
Finally got time to figure out how multiple probes effect each other. There are some final details to figure out but the most important work is done.
When adding a second probe to the scan it will cause interference. It doesn't matter where this second probe is placed, it can intersect over the target or be placed several 100 au away, it will still cause the exact same amount of interference.
The amount of interference is based on the range between the probe being interfered (the first probe) and the target. The shorter the range the less the interference. At close to max range for that probe the inteference is 30%, at 0 range it's 2.5%, it's then linar between these points.
Let's do an example:
Probe A, a snoop probe, strength 20, range 5.
Probe B, another snoop probe, strength 20, range 5.
Target T, a ship with signal size 5.
Probe A is placed 4 au away from target T. Alone the strength would be 0.52.
Now we place Probe B 100 au away, it will now cause inteference for probe A of 25% (base on the fact that Target T is 4 au from Probe A) so the new strength of the combined scan is now 0.39
If we place Probe B 4 au from Target T as well so the probes intersect over the target the strength from probe A is still 0.39, from probe B be it will be the same as A acts as interference and we then add these toghther for a combined strentgth of 0.39+0.39 = 0.78
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
Phalanx Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.05 23:08:00 -
[64]
Seems I was a bit premature, it seems multiple probes depending on placement can either cause Interference (like I described in the last post) or Amplification.
If the probes are place so the target are positioned in between them you get interference BUT if you place both probes on the same side of the target you instead get Amplification of the same amount.
Example:
Interference
Probe A -- 4 au -- Target -- 100 au -- Probe B
Here Probe B cause interference lowering the strength by 25%.
Amplification
Probe B -- 100 AU -- Probe A -- 4 AU -- Target
Here Probe B cause Amplification increasing the strength by 30%.
I have yet to check what happens if you place them in different angles (a bit hard to make the BMs for that).
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
Phalanx Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 23:06:00 -
[65]
I would suggest the exploration thread for that question but a simple question, did you get a hit with your quests before switching to comb? if you did not then you need to keep scanning with quest. A site can be upto 4 au away from any planet in any direction (up/down as well). There is no possible why that you could have covered that area with combs.
Grav sites are the hardest ones to locate. Going thru 2-3 sets of quests before getting a hit is not unheard of.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
Phalanx Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.07.04 22:10:00 -
[66]
Originally by: MeestaPenni
Great thread with some very useful information. I'm sorry for asking what is possibly a stupid question.
If I load my probe launcher with 20au probes, how do I then reload with 5au in order to "fine-tune" my scan results? I can unload to cargo, but attempting to reload only shows the previously loaded probes.
Kinda' new at the probe scanning thing.
If you have them in your cargo they should show up if you right click on the probe launcher. Just like when loading ammo.
Maybe you put the wrong probes in your cargo. Exploration probes (quest etc) won't fit in the recon launcher.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
|
Posted - 2007.08.02 22:57:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Kamir SarZak
Does anyone know if Observator Deep Space Probes are of
any use ? All I have managed to pick up are ships (which
is not what I want to do with these probes), and I have
been using them for a while now. I have heard that there
are sites that you can pick up with these probes that
you cant with the usual ones. Does anyone know if this
is true ? So far I have not been able to confirm it.
Thanks.
Kamir
Observator Deep Space Probe is used to find ships located in deep safe spots and for that it works just fine. All exploration sites are within 4au of a planet so there is no need for observators to find any of them. Note that the observator probe has such a low strength that you are talking of around 0.001-0.01% chance of picking an exploration site per scan.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
|
Posted - 2007.08.17 15:07:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Am I right in understanding that the interference doesn't actually reduce your total chance of getting a hit between the two probes? Or to put it a different way, is the chance of getting a hit still better than if you'd only placed one probe?
Sorry for the late response, with the thread not sticked anymore I missed the new posts in it (reply notification please CCP?).
It is possibly to reduce the total chance of finding the target by placing another probe. It will happen in 2 specific cases:
1. If the second probe is out of range of the target and placed so that the target is in between the probes. In this case the probe only creates interference as it's not in range to boost.
2. If the second probe is in range but is of a longer range/weaker kind. Depending on the exact probe types and placement it's possible for the second probe to create more interference than its boost to the signal. In practice you need probes at least 2 sizes apart, ie 5 au and 20 au or 10 and 40 au for this to happen.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.08.17 21:16:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Ah ok, that's unfortunate. So "interference/amplification" doesn't have a maximum range?
One of the real pleasures I've been getting from exploration is trying to get good overlaps, and it's a little sad to think in some cases all the effort has been and will be hurting my chances rather than helping them.
Any recommendations?
The problem with exploration is that you don't know where the target is, not even after getting the first hit do you know where the target is in relations to the probe. This makes it very hard to avoid/take advantage of interference/amplification.
My suggestion for exploration is this. When placing quests just ignore it completely. A probe sitting at the other side of the system scanning another planet might end up increasing or decreasing the chance, just try to get as good coverage as possible and if you can/want to go for overlapping then do so.
After the initial hit just use one probe, here trying to place more probes to get overlapping is more than likely to backfire and create interference instead.
The practical uses of interference/amplification are more interesting with ship probing where you know where your target is in relation to your probes.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.08.29 18:31:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Ki Shodan
Originally by: Hoshi
The problem with exploration is that you don't know where the target is, not even after getting the first hit do you know where the target is in relations to the probe. This makes it very hard to avoid/take advantage of interference/amplification.
This explains a lot of my poor results after the first hit, especially in systems with more than one sig (eg. grav and unknown).
I often used inflight BMs to get better coverage of the inner planets, but left the quest's on the outer planets, when using smaller probes on the hit to get possible result from the outer planets (other planets more than 4 au away).
Is it fixed with the last patch or should I destroy the quests at the other planets, when i get a hit?
You don't need to destroy the quests, just don't select them.
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.21 23:04:00 -
[71]
Originally by: CaldariSlave
1a) Does deploying multiple probes all on one side of the target create only amplification?
1b)Is the magnitude of the amplifciation calculated in the same manner as with interference?
1c)Does this mean that the amplification bonus is greater if the closest probe is at it's max raneg from the target?
1d)If I can create interference with additional probes that aren't in range of the target but still sandwich the target, can I create amplification by deploying multiple probes all on the same side of the target even if they are not in range?
2) Is there a seperate effect that can degrade scan probe performance other than interference, some form of basic stacking penalty between probes?
3) Does using exploration and ship probes together have any stacking penalties past interference and amplification?
Sorry for the delay at answering, easy to miss when the thread is not sticky anymore.
First of all your scenario does not work as you can not place probes inside the scan range of other probes (which your scenario does).
1a) Unknown, I have only tested with 2 probes so far.
1b) Yes
1c) Yes BUT because it's at its max range its strength is already reduced from range much more than amplification will boost it up.
1d) Yes that is the only way of creating amplification (as you can not place probes inside scan range of other probes).
2) Not on sensor strength, but there are also effects on accuracy that I have not been able to nail down yet.
3) Have not tested but I very much doubt it. For the system there is no real difference between a ship and exploration probe, just different range/strength.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.21 23:06:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Yunii
Are the Observators not working like they used anymore? Silent nerf?
Observators are working fine.
Originally by: AsfALT
Hello,
This is a great guide.
Did i understand right that mission runners are almost impossible to scan?
Any input on how i could do that is wellecomed.
Thnx.
Not impossible, just much harder.
Originally by: Ulstan
Quote:
ItÆs still possible to see probes on the directional scanner by setting it to not use overview settings, even easier now as a lot of stuff like npcs and roids have been removed from this list so it will come up much faster and be less cluttered.
Is it possible to toggle some overview setting so that you can see scan probes on your overview, or on the directional scanner while using the over view settings?
No you can not add them to the overview.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.28 19:34:00 -
[73]
1) Correct.
2) This will give better scan strength than the 4au probe alone.
3) Second scenario.
4) Intersecting 2 probes will always give the best strength IF both probes have the same strength. If you use probes with different strength the interference can become higher than the intersection boost. Interference can lower signal strength by upto 30%. So if the strength from the second probe (after range reduction and interference here as well) is less than 30% of the strength of the first probe (after range reduction) then it will hinder more than it helps.
If you can not place 2 probes of the same strength so they intersect the second option is to amplify by place the other probe/probes on the same side of the target. For best result try to get a straight a line going from target to probe A to probe B.
If we draw a triangle with target T, probe A and probe B as the corners we want angle T to be as small as possible, if angle T becomes more than 90 degrees we will get interference instead of amplification.
I do not have the formula for amount of amplifications/interference to angle at this time, I only know from a couple of tests that the angle does have this effect.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.04 01:47:00 -
[74]
Just noticed my E:ON version of the guide (minus the pretty pictures) are available online on CCPs own site.
Player Guide - Ship Probing
So for anyone who didn't get that E:ON issue it's there for you to read.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.12.15 22:29:00 -
[75]
There are some strange things with scanning. Once there was this unpiloted ship sitting in a deep safe which I found by chance with the directional scanner while warping to another deepsafe. By some bookmark placing I got within snoop range, and all math said I should have 100% chance of finding it, in the end it took 10 snoops and when I finally got a hit it said 2.3 strength.
What I am trying to say is that not everything related to scanning can be explained :)
Maybe what you where seeing where some lingering deadspace area effect, when the plex has been spawned it's a deadspace area which means harder to find stuff in it, then maybe CCP has some code to make sure that the site beacon itself is not effected by this deadspace field but maybe this code is broken for multiple probes.
It's one possible explanation and there are probably others too.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2008.04.15 08:59:00 -
[76]
Answered per evemail as requested but here is the cliff notes:
1. You must be using a really old cached version (eve-search maybe?). Both the scan strength formula and the examples have been updated around 16 months ago.
2. Yes the accuracy formula is not correct, it even says so in the guide. I have yet to come up with a formula that fits the data.
Quote: The formula to calculate Maximum effective Scan Deviation is not know at this time, the following formula will provide an estimate that works for most cases:
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2008.04.17 07:39:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Rafael Tonka
Thanks for an amazing guide to probing and scanning Hoshi.
I've just got myself my 1st Cov Ops ship and will be playing with it quite a lot in the near future to try and make the most of these new skills!
1 question for you from the guide though - in your list of scan groups it's got an entry for 'Scrap'. Has this now been removed as I can't seem to see it anywhere in the scanner window in-game?
Cheers pal
Raf
You must be looking at an old version as well. Might I ask where (so I maybe can get that old version updated as well)?.
The "Scrap" group (which wasn't working anyway) has been replaced by "Cosmic Anomaly" a couple of patches ago. The guide was updated when it happened.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2008.04.17 09:20:00 -
[78]
Guide updated with information about faction launchers, probes and implants. Should have been done months ago but now it's finally done. |
Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2008.04.17 12:42:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Rafael Tonka
I was looking at the guide with the link a few posts above...
http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g622.asp
Just noticed the mistake in my post (ie, not paying attention to what is there now!!)
So is the cosmic anomoly category useful in any way?? I'll have a more thorough read up through the thread when I get a break - at work just now.
Ah that's a copy of the guide I wrote of EON magazine, they put it in the guide section without informing me which meant I didn't have a chance to update it. I been thinking of getting them to update it but atm I feel it's better to wait for the EVElopedia and get it right there.
Cosmic Anomaly lets you search for so called Encounters, npc combat sites. They are part of exploration but sort of the lite version of it. You can find those sites with the built in scanner in your ship, don't need to use probes for it.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Hoshi
Black Water.
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Posted - 2008.05.20 10:24:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Jin'to
I coudnt find a answer after some searching around, but anyone of you guys know how much i gain in chance of finding anything, with 1% more in probe str?
I assume it's the "Hardwiring - Poteque Pharmaceuticals 'Prospector' PPG-0" you are looking at.
1% more probe strength would have the effect of multiplying current probe chance with 1.01
So if you had 10% chance before and increased strength with 1% you would get 10.1% chance.
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Hoshi
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.28 21:13:00 -
[81]
This thread is not really about exploration but I'll answer anyway.
1. Each time a site despawns (due to timer or someone finishing it) a new site of the same type will spawn in a random system in the spawn area. The size of the spawn area are several regions large. So the total number of exploration sites are always the same.
2. Downtime has no effect on exploration sites. A site will despawn 3 (or was it 4?, don't remember atm) days after it spawned if none has finished it before then. If a site spawns at 18.23 eve time it will despawn at 18.23 3 or 4 days later. As no one can actually finish a site during downtime no sites should ever spawn/despawn during it either. The exception would be newly added sites.
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