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ItburnsWhenIRightClick Republic University Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2015.07.06 11:15:23 - [1] - Quote CCP please tell me that As my main spent nearly a year subbing my account to train up to fly a super and you keep chipping away at killing them off in the game.. Now you nerf the DDA's and we all know supers use at least one or more for general use. Is there any way for a refund on skillpoints so I can fly a subcap and enjoy the game as im thinking Elite Dangerous might be better now. Much love and happiness to all you all out there.
GankYou Redshield Holding Company 724	Posted - 2015.07.06 11:17:57 - [2] - Quote Dear, oh dear, oh dear - 17.5k DPS becomes 17.2k. ...And they all crave one thing - ISK. ¤ [WTS] ME10 / TE20 BPOs from Battleships/Cruisers to Freighters, Carriers, Triage/Siege, XL modules & Cap Components
Riot Girl You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack 3801	Posted - 2015.07.06 11:24:39 - [3] - Quote I feel like dropping a super on something. Can I have an SP refund too? Oh god.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 16336	Posted - 2015.07.06 12:00:58 - [4] - Quote I'll take any unwanted supers off your hands and give it a good home. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri New Order Logistics CODE. 235	Posted - 2015.07.06 12:07:15 - [5] - Quote I'll accept your characters after you give your supers to baltec. The PLEX required for the transfers are on me.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 38634	Posted - 2015.07.06 12:26:44 - [6] - Quote They're gong to be rebalanced before the end of the year. I can almost say that with a straight face. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Commander Spurty Dimension Door We need wards. 1493	Posted - 2015.07.06 12:31:22 - [7] - Quote Every 5~6weeks, they could suddenly become the only ship anyone ever wants to fly. There are good ships And wood ships And ships that sail the sea But the best ships are Spaceships Built by CCP
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 653	Posted - 2015.07.06 12:45:11 - [8] - Quote It's pretty dumb to think they'll just abandon you folks. People who are stupid enough to believe that are no loss when they leave. It's just as stupid as highseccers of all kinds not getting how obviously there will come a balance pass smashing through their gameplay as well. You're all like children, but worse. omg i need to redo my picture!
Elenahina agony unleashed Agony Empire 829	Posted - 2015.07.06 12:56:40 - [9] - Quote Angelica Dreamstar wrote: You're all like children, but worse. QFT. The wheel turns, and continues to turn. The only people that really have a reason to be bitching this second are the Rorqual pilots. That ship literally has no reason to exist at present, Fozzie's assurances of a balance pass not withstanding. Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
Kendarr Zebra Corp The Bastion 52	Posted - 2015.07.06 12:57:39 - [10] - Quote To quote CCP seagull "they are some of the most aspirational ships in EvE Online and we (CCP) will work hard to make them worth owning" TL;DR DELETE ALL SPUERS FROM THE GAME BBQFFSOMFG!"WEASDASDR%"-ú$ Zebra-Corp
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 654	Posted - 2015.07.06 12:59:44 - [11] - Quote Elenahina wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: You're all like children, but worse. QFT. The wheel turns, and continues to turn. The only people that really have a reason to be bitching this second are the Rorqual pilots. That ship literally has no reason to exist at present, Fozzie's assurances of a balance pass not withstanding. And they too will get their turn and they WILL love it. omg i need to redo my picture!
Elenahina agony unleashed Agony Empire 830	Posted - 2015.07.06 13:06:58 - [12] - Quote Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Elenahina wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: You're all like children, but worse. QFT. The wheel turns, and continues to turn. The only people that really have a reason to be bitching this second are the Rorqual pilots. That ship literally has no reason to exist at present, Fozzie's assurances of a balance pass not withstanding. And they too will get their turn and they WILL love it. I cannot wait to fly a battle Rorqual, and make the stars tremble. Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 655	Posted - 2015.07.06 13:11:07 - [13] - Quote Elenahina wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Elenahina wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: You're all like children, but worse. QFT. The wheel turns, and continues to turn. The only people that really have a reason to be bitching this second are the Rorqual pilots. That ship literally has no reason to exist at present, Fozzie's assurances of a balance pass not withstanding. And they too will get their turn and they WILL love it. I cannot wait to fly a battle Rorqual, and make the stars tremble. Oh god, the shipwide, deep vibrations filling the body during ore compression ... Can't wait for a new love boat, but then I'll never ever get out of bed again. Or the table. The couch. The bathroom. The floor! Oh the ******* floor! omg i need to redo my picture!
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 32016	Posted - 2015.07.06 13:49:28 - [14] - Quote I'm completely happy with the RP of a Hel as the anchor of my fleet, even more than a Rag (which I sold off recently). Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 1981	Posted - 2015.07.06 14:48:57 - [15] - Quote Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Elenahina wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: Elenahina wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: You're all like children, but worse. QFT. The wheel turns, and continues to turn. The only people that really have a reason to be bitching this second are the Rorqual pilots. That ship literally has no reason to exist at present, Fozzie's assurances of a balance pass not withstanding. And they too will get their turn and they WILL love it. I cannot wait to fly a battle Rorqual, and make the stars tremble. Oh god, the shipwide, deep vibrations filling the body during ore compression ... Can't wait for a new love boat, but then I'll never ever get out of bed again. Or the table. The couch. The bathroom. The floor! Oh the ******* floor! What the....
davet517 Caldari Provisions Caldari State 95	Posted - 2015.07.06 15:34:07 - [16] - Quote I think CCP has painted themselves into a corner on this one, honestly. The problem with SCs and Titans is their cost. They don't cost a bit more than a cap. They cost many times as much. If you make them powerful enough to justify their cost, they are the apex force in the game. If you diminish their power enough to keep them from being the apex force, they're no longer worth what they cost. Through changes to how they work (tracking, DD), they were already relegated to the role of capital killer and structure grinder. Now, no structure to grind takes one of those away, and make fielding capitals a lot less necessary to boot. Post fozzie-sov, the only natural escalation to supers will be to kill off triage carriers, and, why risk supers to do that when you can do it with dreads at a fraction of the cost? There isn't a "balance pass" that's going to fix this. In the post fozzie-sov game, they're going to be largely irrelevant, just as "mother ships" were before Dominion. The best thing to do would be to just remove them, and refund their cost and skill points. The next best thing to do would be to sharply cut their cost relative to capitals, and refund the difference to those who own them now. 6 billion isk super-carriers and 20 billion isk Titans that can dock would make some sense to keep as breakers of triage blobs in the post fozzie-sov game.
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 661	Posted - 2015.07.06 15:52:50 - [17] - Quote Children. It's really like doing community work and when you don't see me post I had a day off.
Hemmo Paskiainen 489	Posted - 2015.07.06 15:56:38 - [18] - Quote good for you! death to all supers! subcap is more fun anyway "Relativity equals time plus momentum: if it can be erased by a single click on a button, would it be worth spending your time?"
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 1186	Posted - 2015.07.06 15:58:32 - [19] - Quote davet517 wrote: There isn't a "balance pass" that's going to fix this. In the post fozzie-sov game, they're going to be largely irrelevant, just as "mother ships" were before Dominion. I want to see that statement again when your group is about to entosis that station (cause sunday evening CTA or whatever) and then suddenly there's twenty aeons looking at you in a very displeased manner. They're a quite big "GTFO"-sign the other group can wave.
Aralyn Cormallen Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 1206	Posted - 2015.07.06 16:01:22 - [20] - Quote davet517 wrote: Through changes to how they work (tracking, DD, drones), they were already relegated to the role of capital killer and structure grinder. Now, no structure to grind takes one of those away, and makes fielding capitals for them to kill a lot less necessary to boot. Post fozzie-sov, the only natural escalation to supers will be to kill off triage carriers, and, why risk supers to do that when you can do it with dreads at a fraction of the cost? [Disclaimer: I say this as a man who loves both Caps and Subcaps, and owns a Super.] Actually, I find this encouraging. Maybe I'm hopelessly optimistic, but once Capitals are free of the ball and chain of structure killing, I feel there is real hope for a massive rebalance purely around themselves. Just to make sense, I feel the problem with Caps and Supers currently is circular - structures have massive hp, so Dreads/Supers/Titans need massive damage in order to turn structure grinds from painful self-inflicted torture, to something done in a reasonable time. But because they have such massive damage, it needs to be hobbled in such a way that it can't insta-pop ships left and right, which leads to appalling damage application on subcapitals, and massive hp pools on the ships they can apply that damage to (ie: the Capital line), and ludicrous inpenetrable capital-rep spider-tanks. By removing structure grinding completely, CCP could (if they were brave) de-escalate Capital damage and hp completely. Slash Super and Dread damage, but make it easier to apply against the larger subcaps (I would like to see T3's not be able to laugh off my Fighters), and likewise hack Capital hp away across the board, and maybe remove Capital Reps completely (since lower hp and lower damage means subcapital remote reps could pick up the void). Once structure-grinding is gone, its no longer holding the leash on Capital gameplay, bring the Capital and Subcapital games closer together, rather than putting a massive cliff between them. But maybe I'm just a hopeless optimist
DaReaper Net 7 2288	Posted - 2015.07.06 16:15:25 - [21] - Quote Sigh.. Sov is entering phase 2. After phase 2 ccp will be able to look at there roll in warfare and make changes. they announced that supers and titans and caps will be looked at, most likly around sov phase 3, which i suspect will come out around the time citadels do. Phase 3 is most likly the "making it easier to live in space' phase. In other words, Patience young one. Cause i remember when we had no caps... that was fun times OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
SFM Hobb3s Wrecking Shots Black Legion. 323	Posted - 2015.07.06 16:40:51 - [22] - Quote TBH CCP didn't ruin supers at all. This is a sandbox game, and they did their best to provide the freedom to build and use them. It was the supercap blob that ruined it. Put that blame where it belongs. Also grrr.
davet517 Caldari Provisions Caldari State 95	Posted - 2015.07.06 16:49:04 - [23] - Quote Lloyd Roses wrote: davet517 wrote: There isn't a "balance pass" that's going to fix this. In the post fozzie-sov game, they're going to be largely irrelevant, just as "mother ships" were before Dominion. I want to see that statement again when your group is about to entosis that station (cause sunday evening CTA or whatever) and then suddenly there's twenty aeons looking at you in a very displeased manner. They're a quite big "GTFO"-sign the other group can wave. Really? What are you 20 aeons going to go against my Ishtar / T3 fleet? The 20 Aeons were only a deterrent when I needed caps to grind structure HP. Unless I decide to use triage logistics, there's nothing for your Aeons to kill.
davet517 Caldari Provisions Caldari State 95	Posted - 2015.07.06 16:52:21 - [24] - Quote SFM Hobb3s wrote: TBH CCP didn't ruin supers at all. This is a sandbox game, and they did their best to provide the freedom to build and use them. It was the supercap blob that ruined it. Put that blame where it belongs. Also grrr. The super-blob was a fairly predictable outcome of Dominion sov, with its SC buff and simultaneous buff to null-sec income, and many of us did predict it. You can't blame players for reacting to changes in game mechanics that suddenly make supers the apex force in the game, and simultaneously buff the income needed to obtain them.
davet517 Caldari Provisions Caldari State 95	Posted - 2015.07.06 17:05:03 - [25] - Quote Aralyn CormallenBy removing structure grinding completely, CCP could (if they were brave) de-escalate Capital damage and hp completely. Slash Super and Dread damage, but make it easier to apply against the larger subcaps (I would like to see T3's not be able to laugh off my Fighters), and likewise hack Capital hp away across the board, and maybe remove Capital Reps completely (since lower hp and lower damage means subcapital remote reps could pick up the void). Once structure-grinding is gone, its no longer holding the leash on Capital gameplay, bring the Capital and Subcapital games closer together, rather than putting a massive cliff between them. But maybe I'm just a hopeless optimist [:=d wrote: Again, you have an issue of cost. Nobody is going to field a 100 billion isk blap-titan that has had its HP and damage slashed, just because. It's just not worth the risk. If we were talking about a 10 billion isk Titan that was 5 times more effective against sub-caps than a dread, and 5 times as survivable, for 5 times the cost, maybe. Not for 50 times the cost. You can theory craft all kinds of ways to make them "force multipliers", but there are far too many of them now for that to be a reasonable role to play for all of us who trained for them and ground out the isk to buy them. CCP is promising a "re-balance", but, don't hold your breath. "Motherships" languished for years before Dominion. It's not at all unlikely that supers and titans will do the same now, while CCP pursues it's grand plan for a new sov game.
davet517 Caldari Provisions Caldari State 95	Posted - 2015.07.06 17:07:40 - [26] - Quote .
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. 3469	Posted - 2015.07.06 17:25:05 - [27] - Quote davet517 wrote: ...... Post fozzie-sov, the only natural escalation to supers will be to kill off triage carriers, and, why risk supers to do that when you can do it with dreads at a fraction of the cost? To kill off the other side's dreads. Duh. Know a Frozen fan? Check this out Frozen fanfiction
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 1984	Posted - 2015.07.06 17:32:34 - [28] - Quote davet517 wrote: Again, you have an issue of cost. Nobody is going to field a 100 billion isk blap-titan that has had its HP and damage slashed, just because. It's just not worth the risk. If we were talking about a 10 billion isk Titan that was 5 times more effective against sub-caps than a dread, and 5 times as survivable, for 5 times the cost, maybe. Not for 50 times the cost. 5 time as effective vs subcap AND 5 time the survivability for 5 time the cost? Are you insane? If anything, for 5 time the efficiency vs subcap it should cost at elast around 30 time as much. Price progression is not linear with power.
Baaldor Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society Black Legion. 347	Posted - 2015.07.06 17:52:45 - [29] - Quote Quote: CCP is ruining owning a super we all trained + waited to fly Free from the shackles............?
davet517 Caldari Provisions Caldari State 95	Posted - 2015.07.06 17:57:15 - [30] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: 5 time as effective vs subcap AND 5 time the survivability for 5 time the cost? Are you insane? If anything, for 5 time the efficiency vs subcap it should cost at elast around 30 time as much. Price progression is not linear with power. Because...? The price disparity between a Titan and a Dread hasn't changed that much since their introduction, and if you remember right, a Titan or two could blap an entire sub-cap fleet at the press of a button back then. Then, properly fit, and again, for the same price, they could decimate BS fleets. That went away too. Price didn't come down though. It's yet to be seen what fozzie-sov doctrines will look like. if effective doctrines can be devised that don't require triage carriers, there's no reason for dreads to take the field, and no role for supers to come and kill them. I think that the fatal flaw in Fozziesov is that CCP has vastly under-estimated the extent to which mudflation has taken hold. The established sov holders can easily afford to throw thousands of entosis linked ships at any timer they really want to win, and, with TIDI, at least achieve a stalemate until the attacker quits in frustration. They probably should have made them a limited resource (e.g. limited run T1 BPCs, instead of BPOs) to force strategies other than spamming them.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 16653	Posted - 2015.07.06 18:02:14 - [31] - Quote ItburnsWhenIRightClick wrote: CCP is ruining owning a super we all trained + waited to fly Good. Death2all Supers. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
MeBiatch GRR GOONS 2094	Posted - 2015.07.06 18:09:57 - [32] - Quote ItburnsWhenIRightClick wrote: CCP please tell me that As my main spent nearly a year subbing my account to train up to fly a super and you keep chipping away at killing them off in the game.. Now you nerf the DDA's and we all know supers use at least one or more for general use. Is there any way for a refund on skillpoints so I can fly a subcap and enjoy the game as im thinking Elite Dangerous might be better now. Much love and happiness to all you all out there. I dont get it were super crap before DDA were added to the game? what is the actual dps loss for the ship? is it that you are upset you cant kill dreads and pos guns as fast or is it that you solo in your super and cant do annoms as fast anymore? There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote: Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
MeBiatch GRR GOONS 2094	Posted - 2015.07.06 18:12:37 - [33] - Quote Angelica Dreamstar wrote: It's pretty dumb to think they'll just abandon you folks. People who are stupid enough to believe that are no loss when they leave. It's just as stupid as highseccers of all kinds not getting how obviously there will come a balance pass smashing through their gameplay as well. You're all like children, but worse. this. supers titans and to an extent dreads and carriers were designed for a sov system that is no longer going to be in assistance... (might take a bit longer to get rid of pos code) so its reasonable to expect CCP do a proper balance pass on these ships... i would expect supers and titans to get some sort of role bonus changed... but who knows what that will be. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote: Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 13559	Posted - 2015.07.06 18:20:54 - [34] - Quote I love the mentality behind the assumption that what the OP chose to train a while ago should have any bearing on game balance. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 16344	Posted - 2015.07.06 18:42:59 - [35] - Quote davet517 wrote: Aralyn CormallenBy removing structure grinding completely, CCP could (if they were brave) de-escalate Capital damage and hp completely. Slash Super and Dread damage, but make it easier to apply against the larger subcaps (I would like to see T3's not be able to laugh off my Fighters), and likewise hack Capital hp away across the board, and maybe remove Capital Reps completely (since lower hp and lower damage means subcapital remote reps could pick up the void). Once structure-grinding is gone, its no longer holding the leash on Capital gameplay, bring the Capital and Subcapital games closer together, rather than putting a massive cliff between them. But maybe I'm just a hopeless optimist [:=d wrote: Again, you have an issue of cost. Nobody is going to field a 100 billion isk blap-titan that has had its HP and damage slashed, just because. It's just not worth the risk. If we were talking about a 10 billion isk Titan that was 5 times more effective against sub-caps than a dread, and 5 times as survivable, for 5 times the cost, maybe. Not for 50 times the cost. You can theory craft all kinds of ways to make them "force multipliers", but there are far too many of them now for that to be a reasonable role to play for all of us who trained for them and ground out the isk to buy them. CCP is promising a "re-balance", but, don't hold your breath. "Motherships" languished for years before Dominion. It's not at all unlikely that supers and titans will do the same now, while CCP pursues it's grand plan for a new sov game. We toss full fleets of suicide dreads around, isk is not an issue. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Eli Stan Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 238	Posted - 2015.07.06 19:06:51 - [36] - Quote davet517 wrote: I think that the fatal flaw in Fozziesov is that CCP has vastly under-estimated the extent to which mudflation has taken hold. The established sov holders can easily afford to throw thousands of entosis linked ships at any timer they really want to win, and, with TIDI, at least achieve a stalemate until the attacker quits in frustration. They probably should have made them a limited resource (e.g. limited run T1 BPCs, instead of BPOs) to force strategies other than spamming them. Why do you consider that a fatal flaw? I think of it as Fozziesov working as intended and doing good. A defender who has a thousand pilots active in a system should be able to use them all to defend their SOV. (Although for the daily vulnerability window it'll probably be a dozen ships with Entosis links and 988 PvP ships. Just one defending Entosis is all that's needed to pause the attacker's progress. For a constellation-wide capture race, I could see it being as many as 40 Entosis ships supported by 960 PvP ships.) The brilliance of Fozziesov is when an established SOV holder doesn't have a thousand pilots in a system - in which case an attacker can come in with a small sub-cap force (or even a single T1 ship, if the system is truly empty) and trigger the capture race in less than an hour. And an empty constellation means the same small sub-cap force can capture the objective in, again, less than an hour. Fozziesov also means that if an established SOV holder is facing multiple attacks at once - even if each attack is a single T1 ship - those attacks have to be actively responded to. In Dominion SOV, the sheer HP grind was enough to defend SOV in absentia unless the attacker wanted to risk several billion worth of dreads and supers. Now, actively flying pilots will be required. Eight simultaneous attacks would mean that the 1000-pilot force has to be divided up into 125 pilot fleets that each go to different systems. And a clever attacker can use feints and gatecamps wormhole mobility (well, maybe not that last one after tomorrow's patch) to outmaneuver a defender. Spamming ships will always be a viable tactic. And a much better one than Dominion SOV, IMO, which can be considered to have been a system of spamming AFK HP.
Deck Cadelanne Exigent Circumstances CAStabouts 145	Posted - 2015.07.06 19:34:33 - [37] - Quote ItburnsWhenIRightClick wrote: Is there any way for a refund on skillpoints so I can fly a subcap and enjoy the game as im thinking Elite Dangerous might be better now. Why? Instead of whining about changes, how about trying to adapt? Or you could just fulfil your threat to quit. There were some takers for your stuff already, so I won't ask. Eli Stan wrote: The brilliance of Fozziesov is when an established SOV holder doesn't have a thousand pilots in a system - in which case an attacker can come in with a small sub-cap force (or even a single T1 ship, if the system is truly empty) and trigger the capture race in less than an hour. And an empty constellation means the same small sub-cap force can capture the objective in, again, less than an hour. Indeed. Deterring or defeating the "drive by" sov attack will be no big deal - for groups that are active and committed. Sov holders who are lazy or inactive are going to lose your sov space to groups that are more active and committed. Simples. Nothing wrong with a mechanic that favour folks who are actually playing and trying to do stuff, eh? davet517 wrote: The established sov holders can easily afford to throw thousands of entosis linked ships at any timer they really want to win, and, with TIDI, at least achieve a stalemate until the attacker quits in frustration. They might. And if it's important, maybe they will. So there will still be a place for big, epic battles over sov in the game as big fleets fight to win the grid for their Entosis pilots. Awesome. *"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."* - Hunter S. Thompson
Syrilian Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 111	Posted - 2015.07.06 19:43:54 - [38] - Quote Deck Cadelanne wrote: ItburnsWhenIRightClick wrote: Is there any way for a refund on skillpoints so I can fly a subcap and enjoy the game as im thinking Elite Dangerous might be better now. Why? Instead of whining about changes, how about trying to adapt? Or you could just fulfil your threat to quit. There were some takers for your stuff already, so I won't ask. Eli Stan wrote: The brilliance of Fozziesov is when an established SOV holder doesn't have a thousand pilots in a system - in which case an attacker can come in with a small sub-cap force (or even a single T1 ship, if the system is truly empty) and trigger the capture race in less than an hour. And an empty constellation means the same small sub-cap force can capture the objective in, again, less than an hour. Indeed. Deterring or defeating the "drive by" sov attack will be no big deal - for groups that are active and committed. Sov holders who are lazy or inactive are going to lose your sov space to groups that are more active and committed. Simples. Nothing wrong with a mechanic that favour folks who are actually playing and trying to do stuff, eh? This. The vast majority of people I have seen pissing and moaning about the new mechanic are all basically whining "you mean we actually have to play the game?" Yes, yes you do.
Deck Cadelanne Exigent Circumstances CAStabouts 145	Posted - 2015.07.06 19:57:46 - [39] - Quote Syrilian wrote: This. The vast majority of people I have seen pissing and moaning about the new mechanic are all basically whining "you mean we actually have to play the game?" Yes, yes you do. That has been the single weirdest thing I've struggled to get my head around with this bunch of people. "Now I have to log in and actually fly my internet spaceship? WAAA!" It's not like Fozziesov is going to mean you log on at your normal playing time and find all your sov has flipped. The system is still weighted in favour of the defender: The defender gets a heads-up message as soon as the attacker's link starts it's first "real" cycle, a single defender Entosis all that is required to pause an attack and the "prime time" reinforcement mechanic means the attacker has to finish the job at a time of the defender's choosing. Any defender willing and able to fight and win grid can stop an attack. It just makes the level of commitment required of an attacker to win sov a function of how much force the defender commits rather than a pile of structure HP. *"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."* - Hunter S. Thompson
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 1985	Posted - 2015.07.06 21:19:38 - [40] - Quote davet517 wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: 5 time as effective vs subcap AND 5 time the survivability for 5 time the cost? Are you insane? If anything, for 5 time the efficiency vs subcap it should cost at elast around 30 time as much. Price progression is not linear with power. Because...? The price disparity between a Titan and a Dread hasn't changed that much since their introduction, and if you remember right, a Titan or two could blap an entire sub-cap fleet at the press of a button back then. Then, properly fit, and again, for the same price, they could decimate BS fleets. That went away too. Price didn't come down though. If you nerf/remove something because it was broken, you don't compensate with price reduction. That's always the cost of going for FOTM or WTFPWNMOBILE type of trait in any supported MMO.
Joe Atei Aes Dei Asher 18	Posted - 2015.07.06 21:20:55 - [41] - Quote Can't wait to see people posting about how a no lifer took their space while they were at work. Good times.
davet517 Caldari Provisions Caldari State 95	Posted - 2015.07.06 22:05:03 - [42] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: If you nerf/remove something because it was broken, you don't compensate with price reduction. That's always the cost of going for FOTM or WTFPWNMOBILE type of trait in any supported MMO. . Sure, they have the option of making them irrelevant and leaving the price point the same. That effectively removes them from the game while hoisting a middle-finger to those who invested a lot of isk in buying them, and subscription money in training for them. That's a business decision on CCP's part. If subscriptions and participation rise as a result, it was a good one. If they continue to fall, as they have been, well, not so much. We'll have to wait and see how it plays out, yes? I don't know that Eve is at the point in its life where they can afford to **** off core players much in order to attract newer ones, but, you never know.
Gregor Parud Ordo Ardish 1446	Posted - 2015.07.06 22:07:51 - [43] - Quote That's weird, I played for over a decade and mostly PVP. I never trained or waited to fly a super, OP doesn't speak for "us all".
Klas Kanjus State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.07.06 22:10:33 - [44] - Quote O look, I've decided to do something different with my time... I think I'll go tell the world about it because of course everyone cares.... In game contract to Klas Kanjus for all your stuff please.
davet517 Caldari Provisions Caldari State 95	Posted - 2015.07.06 22:14:24 - [45] - Quote Deck Cadelanne wrote: davet517 wrote: The established sov holders can easily afford to throw thousands of entosis linked ships at any timer they really want to win, and, with TIDI, at least achieve a stalemate until the attacker quits in frustration. They might. And if it's important, maybe they will. So there will still be a place for big, epic battles over sov in the game as big fleets fight to win the grid for their Entosis pilots. Awesome. You consider spamming T-1 cruisers by the hundreds or thousands just to keep an entosis stalemate going in 90% Tidi from downtime to downtime a "big, epic battle"? It sounds like the old "crash the node on purpose" days to me, just a lot slower. If you've got hundreds of ships with an active entosis link running, you have to grind through all of them fast enough that people can't re-ship and get back on grid. As long as there is at least one running, its a stalemate. It's certainly a viable tactic, with the mechanics as they are now, just like crashing or de-synching the node was back when. An "epic battle" it is not.
Eli Stan Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 239	Posted - 2015.07.06 22:15:58 - [46] - Quote Joe Atei wrote: Can't wait to see people posting about how a no lifer took their space while they were at work. Good times. Why would an alliance set their vulnerability window to when their players are at work? From http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/summer-2015-nullsec-and-sov-status-report/ Quote: Vulnerability and Time Zone Mechanics The designs surrounding vulnerability windows and time zones have been a major area of focus for us over recent months. Time zone safety is an absolutely critical part of any capture system in a worldwide game like EVE Online, and it is also one of the most challenging aspects of the design to get right. Time zone safe game systems are those that allow players to determine the rough time period in which events can occur and their assets are in danger. They play two crucial roles in a game like EVE: They prevent players from losing their stuff while they are unavoidably away from the game (work, sleep, etc). Nobody should feel the need to play the game 24/7 in order to be competitive. [emphasis mine] They encourage players to show up at the same place at the same time, facilitating multiplayer gameplay. Playing with and outplaying other human beings is the core of EVE, and putting players in contact with each other is a big part of that. If people can fight over an asset without ever coming into contact with each other, we've lost something very valuable.
BrundleMeth Caldari Provisions Caldari State 452	Posted - 2015.07.06 22:24:15 - [47] - Quote How about giving us the ability to move SP around as we see fit? Once every 24 hours you can take away from one skill and give to another...
Eli Apol Definitely a nullsec alt 398	Posted - 2015.07.06 22:28:21 - [48] - Quote davet517 wrote: You consider spamming T-1 cruisers by the hundreds or thousands just to keep an entosis stalemate going in 90% Tidi from downtime to downtime a "big, epic battle"? It sounds like the old "crash the node on purpose" days to me, just a lot slower. If you've got hundreds of ships with an active entosis link running, you have to grind through all of them fast enough that people can't re-ship and get back on grid. As long as there is at least one running, its a stalemate. It's certainly a viable tactic, with the mechanics as they are now, just like crashing or de-synching the node was back when. An "epic battle" it is not. Just wondering how these hundreds or thousands of t1 cruisers will be moving into the contested constellations and generally getting around? Are bubbles, gate and station camps not going to be a thing anymore? Isn't there already a planned mechanic of spawning extra nodes as battles prolong to avoid this? Isn't the idea of having multiple starting nodes designed around mitigating the effects of extreme tidi? but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
Glasgow Dunlop The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People 272	Posted - 2015.07.06 22:55:13 - [49] - Quote Best super is a dead super. @glasgowdunlop #tweetfleet TDSIN Recruitment Director : Join 'TDSIN pub' Glasgow / Edinbvrgh Meet Organiser
Infinity Ziona Cloakers 2310	Posted - 2015.07.07 01:30:36 - [50] - Quote ItburnsWhenIRightClick wrote: CCP please tell me that As my main spent nearly a year subbing my account to train up to fly a super and you keep chipping away at killing them off in the game.. Now you nerf the DDA's and we all know supers use at least one or more for general use. Is there any way for a refund on skillpoints so I can fly a subcap and enjoy the game as im thinking Elite Dangerous might be better now. Much love and happiness to all you all out there. Welcome to how we felt when they turned battleships into garbage just because. Then missiles into garbage just because. Then any large ship vs any small ship into garbage... ad nauseam. Welcome to EvE. CCP Fozzie GÇ£We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGÇª in null sec anomalies. GÇ£* Kaalrus pwned..... :)
GankYou Redshield Holding Company 738	Posted - 2015.07.07 01:38:20 - [51] - Quote Gregor Parud wrote: That's weird, I played for over a decade and mostly PVP. I never trained or waited to fly a super, OP doesn't speak for "us all". That is very true of EVE. ...And they all crave one thing - ISK. ¤ [WTS] ME10 / TE20 BPOs from Battleships/Cruisers to Freighters, Carriers, Triage/Siege, XL modules & Cap Components
Jenshae Chiroptera 1800	Posted - 2015.07.07 02:33:17 - [52] - Quote Supers / Titan pilots are a minority. I wish they would delete the mechanics for the ships, refund the pilots the skill points, give them ships to redeem and repurpose the iconic hulls. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
Deck Cadelanne Exigent Circumstances CAStabouts 146	Posted - 2015.07.07 09:51:56 - [53] - Quote Joe Atei wrote: Can't wait to see people posting about how a no lifer took their space while they were at work. Good times. Go back and read the patch notes. Unless the defenders are complete idiots, they set their "prime time" window in their prime time. The scenario you describe won't happen. *"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."* - Hunter S. Thompson
Deck Cadelanne Exigent Circumstances CAStabouts 146	Posted - 2015.07.07 09:56:39 - [54] - Quote davet517 wrote: You consider spamming T-1 cruisers by the hundreds or thousands just to keep an entosis stalemate going in 90% Tidi from downtime to downtime a "big, epic battle"? It sounds like the old "crash the node on purpose" days to me, just a lot slower. If you've got hundreds of ships with an active entosis link running, you have to grind through all of them fast enough that people can't re-ship and get back on grid. As long as there is at least one running, its a stalemate. It's certainly a viable tactic, with the mechanics as they are now, just like crashing or de-synching the node was back when. An "epic battle" it is not. Have you actually read the dev blogs on this? *"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."* - Hunter S. Thompson
davet517 Caldari Provisions Caldari State 97	Posted - 2015.07.07 10:33:17 - [55] - Quote Deck Cadelanne wrote: Have you actually read the dev blogs on this? I have. What's your issue? Unless it's changed since I read it, one link from the aggressor, and one link from the defender, count. If the aggressor has one active, and the defender doesn't, progress toward capture is made. If both have one active, it's a stalemate. 99 bottles of beer on the wall. 99 bottles of beer. If one of those bottles should happen to fall... 98 bottles of beer on the wall. All a defender with sufficient numbers has to do is keep at least 1 link active. If you can spam cheap ships and re-ship faster than they're being killed, you're golden. You don't have to worry about the capture the 10 nodes part. It'll never come to that. One might think that sov warfare would be all about the fun. It never has been. A constant in sov warfare over the years has been being crafty about making it as boring, frustrating, and tedious for your opponent as possible. The design of fozziesov has some pretty big holes in it in that regard. If it was intended to make sov warfare more fun and exciting, it's got a lot of potential to miss that mark.
Eli Apol Definitely a nullsec alt 401	Posted - 2015.07.07 11:35:27 - [56] - Quote Ugh pls let's not turn this into a repeat of the threadnaught. @davet: a) Each player has to have run their entosis link for a full cycle before it counts as a valid connection for purposes of capturing. b) The entosis links have a predetermined value to them which means whelping hundreds of suicide fits will be a non-negligible cost to the alliance/corporation that's whelping. c) Extra nodes spawn as a stalemate continues and the battle state of the nodes is saved over DT. It will always result in at least 10 nodes being fought over during the entire battle. Now go read the devblog/threadnaught, k thx. but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
davet517 Caldari Provisions Caldari State 97	Posted - 2015.07.07 12:19:00 - [57] - Quote Eli Apol wrote: Ugh pls let's not turn this into a repeat of the threadnaught. @davet: a) Each player has to have run their entosis link for a full cycle before it counts as a valid connection for purposes of capturing. b) The entosis links have a predetermined value to them which means whelping hundreds of suicide fits will be a non-negligible cost to the alliance/corporation that's whelping. c) Extra nodes spawn as a stalemate continues and the battle state of the nodes is saved over DT. It will always result in at least 10 nodes being fought over during the entire battle. Now go read the devblog/threadnaught, k thx. Did read it. Did you? It does not say that if a ship that is running an entosis link is killed, that another one has to run for a full cycle after the first one dies before it is active. It just says that they require a one cycle warm up. If you and I are both running one, and you die, does mine take effect immediately as long as it's been running for at least a cycle, or does it not, for a cycle? They might mean the latter, but they did not say that. If it did work that way, spamming them wouldn't be very effective, of course. An attacker would still be able to grind you down. As to cost, are you shlitting me? Don't know if you've noticed, but mudflation is rampant in Eve these days. The larger entities welp Rattlesnakes and Dreads, ffs. What makes you think welping cheap entosis fits would ever become a cost issue? Yes. If you ever make it through the reinforcement cycles, in the defender's prime time, you've got the constellation wide battle to contend with. If you're facing a coalition with a five figure member base, your chances of pushing it that far, if they can spam you to death, isn't very great. Nobody knows for certain what's going to happen. It does make it interesting. At the same time, there are design holes in the system, and Eve players have proven themselves very willing and able to exploit those.
Eli Apol Definitely a nullsec alt 401	Posted - 2015.07.07 12:55:49 - [58] - Quote "The first cycle of the module is always a "warmup cycle" and has no impact. If you lose lock or the module is disabled for any reason, you'll need to go through that warmup cycle again before you can continue exerting any influence over the structure" http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/summer-2015-nullsec-and-sov-status-report/?_ga=1.53517984.90528927.1425161934 Seems pretty crystal to me. edit: And of course consider the defensive indices which gives a defender upto a 6x advantage in these hypothetical complete stalemate situations (and can't prevent incoming hostiles from using the incoming gates to actually approach the node in the first place) but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
knobber Jobbler Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 567	Posted - 2015.07.07 13:00:16 - [59] - Quote Angelica Dreamstar wrote: It's pretty dumb to think they'll just abandon you folks. People who are stupid enough to believe that are no loss when they leave. It's just as stupid as highseccers of all kinds not getting how obviously there will come a balance pass smashing through their gameplay as well. You're all like children, but worse. It is pretty dumb, however lets look at the evidence at hand: Fozzie and Rise's complete inability to balance ships above small gang levels.
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 687	Posted - 2015.07.07 13:08:09 - [60] - Quote knobber Jobbler wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: It's pretty dumb to think they'll just abandon you folks. People who are stupid enough to believe that are no loss when they leave. It's just as stupid as highseccers of all kinds not getting how obviously there will come a balance pass smashing through their gameplay as well. You're all like children, but worse. It is pretty dumb, however lets look at the evidence at hand: Fozzie and Rise's complete inability to balance ships above small gang levels. OR, maybe, the whole point is to get away from huge blobs and mob mentality. It's really like doing community work and when you don't see me post I had a day off. We have thirty five degree here! Asphalt's melting everywhere, sticking on MY SHOES! Can't even smoke, the cig dries out after a minute. What clothes do I wear? :)
Eli Apol Definitely a nullsec alt 401	Posted - 2015.07.07 13:09:23 - [61] - Quote knobber Jobbler wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: It's pretty dumb to think they'll just abandon you folks. People who are stupid enough to believe that are no loss when they leave. It's just as stupid as highseccers of all kinds not getting how obviously there will come a balance pass smashing through their gameplay as well. You're all like children, but worse. It is pretty dumb, however lets look at the evidence at hand: Fozzie and Rise's inheritance of completely imbalanced and boring capital gameplay system. FTFY but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
Lan Wang V I R I I 921	Posted - 2015.07.07 13:09:43 - [62] - Quote GankYou wrote: Dear, oh dear, oh dear - 17.5k DPS becomes 17.2k. you just won the internet EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding \| Digital Design
Natalia Abre-Kai 19	Posted - 2015.07.07 13:10:25 - [63] - Quote I must've missed the blob of drone battlecruisers.
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 687	Posted - 2015.07.07 13:16:25 - [64] - Quote Eli Apol wrote: knobber Jobbler wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: It's pretty dumb to think they'll just abandon you folks. People who are stupid enough to believe that are no loss when they leave. It's just as stupid as highseccers of all kinds not getting how obviously there will come a balance pass smashing through their gameplay as well. You're all like children, but worse. It is pretty dumb, however lets look at the evidence at hand: Fozzie and Rise's inheritance of completely imbalanced and boring capital gameplay system. FTFY You mUst be around 18-25 max. It's really like doing community work and when you don't see me post I had a day off. We have thirty five degree here! Asphalt's melting everywhere, sticking on MY SHOES! Can't even smoke, the cig dries out after a minute. What clothes do I wear? :)
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 1986	Posted - 2015.07.07 13:25:17 - [65] - Quote Natalia Abre-Kai wrote: I must've missed the blob of drone battlecruisers. They are as prevalent as the missile BC blob, the projectile BC blob and every other BC blob. Nerfing their damage mod by 2% will not break them and they have to be re-thought out anyway so them catching a little bit of nerf shrapnell is meaningless right now.
Natalia Abre-Kai 19	Posted - 2015.07.07 13:34:47 - [66] - Quote Meaningless to you because you don't fly them I am guessing. It does not change the fact that they were nerfed, instead of fixing the individual ships like they should have.
davet517 Caldari Provisions Caldari State 97	Posted - 2015.07.07 13:40:11 - [67] - Quote Angelica Dreamstar wrote: It's pretty dumb to think they'll just abandon you folks. People who are stupid enough to believe that are no loss when they leave. It's just as stupid as highseccers of all kinds not getting how obviously there will come a balance pass smashing through their gameplay as well. You're all like children, but worse. You mean like they abandoned "Moms" (Super-Carriers) to languish for the two years between Trinity (introduction of HICs) and Dominion? Yeah, they'd never do that. Seems to me the child is the one speaking from a lack of experience.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 1986	Posted - 2015.07.07 13:43:01 - [68] - Quote Natalia Abre-Kai wrote: Meaningless to you because you don't fly them I am guessing. It does not change the fact that they were nerfed, instead of fixing the individual ships like they should have. You area flying ships that were already known to be sub-par and throwing a fit because they got nerfed by collateral damage of a good change instead of just getting off this failtrain that is using these ships to begin with.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 1986	Posted - 2015.07.07 13:44:38 - [69] - Quote davet517 wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: It's pretty dumb to think they'll just abandon you folks. People who are stupid enough to believe that are no loss when they leave. It's just as stupid as highseccers of all kinds not getting how obviously there will come a balance pass smashing through their gameplay as well. You're all like children, but worse. You mean like they abandoned "Moms" (Super-Carriers) to languish for the two years between Trinity (introduction of HICs) and Dominion? Yeah, they'd never do that. Seems to me the child is the one speaking from a lack of experience. Did you notice they've been treating their game differently for a few month at elast by now which is vastly different than how they did back in the trinity days? I wonder if that might apply to super/titan rebalance they said they would do in accordance to their new SOV system...
Angelica Dreamstar Miner's House of ill repute 690	Posted - 2015.07.07 13:49:02 - [70] - Quote davet517 wrote: Angelica Dreamstar wrote: It's pretty dumb to think they'll just abandon you folks. People who are stupid enough to believe that are no loss when they leave. It's just as stupid as highseccers of all kinds not getting how obviously there will come a balance pass smashing through their gameplay as well. You're all like children, but worse. You mean like they abandoned "Moms" (Super-Carriers) to languish for the two years between Trinity (introduction of HICs) and Dominion? Yeah, they'd never do that. Seems to me the child is the one speaking from a lack of experience. Damn, you got me! I also keep making threads demanding things are being made easier for me, or threads about how i am being ignored and my playstyle needs to be protected, or about how my super is worthless without even considering that a balance pass will definitely come. Damn, yeah, you got me!! It's really like doing community work and when you don't see me post I had a day off. We have thirty five degree here! Asphalt's melting everywhere, sticking on MY SHOES! Can't even smoke, the cig dries out after a minute. What clothes do I wear? :)
Natalia Abre-Kai 19	Posted - 2015.07.07 13:50:43 - [71] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Natalia Abre-Kai wrote: Meaningless to you because you don't fly them I am guessing. It does not change the fact that they were nerfed, instead of fixing the individual ships like they should have. You area flying ships that were already known to be sub-par and throwing a fit because they got nerfed by collateral damage of a good change instead of just getting off this failtrain that is using these ships to begin with. Throwing a fit? Calling a poorly executed/thought-out fix lazy is a "fit"? You're just trying to nitpick at stupid stuff now, seems like you're just trolling to me.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 1987	Posted - 2015.07.07 13:55:23 - [72] - Quote Natalia Abre-Kai wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Natalia Abre-Kai wrote: Meaningless to you because you don't fly them I am guessing. It does not change the fact that they were nerfed, instead of fixing the individual ships like they should have. You area flying ships that were already known to be sub-par and throwing a fit because they got nerfed by collateral damage of a good change instead of just getting off this failtrain that is using these ships to begin with. Throwing a fit? Calling a poorly executed/thought-out fix lazy is a "fit"? You're just trying to nitpick at stupid stuff now, seems like you're just trolling to me. They want to nerf drone boat in general so they nerfed the mod that affect all drones. How is that not well though out? Are they supposed to go over every ships and lower each respective drone bonus just to somehow protect a class of ship that didn't really get used anyway and is in need to be re-visited anyway?
jin ko82 Discrete Astrographic Reconnaissance Technologies This Is How We Roll 42	Posted - 2015.07.07 18:21:55 - [73] - Quote cry more
d0cTeR9 Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance 196	Posted - 2015.07.07 20:49:44 - [74] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: They're gong to be rebalanced before the end of the year. I can almost say that with a straight face. Yeah... i have been hearing that for 5+ years.
0bama Barack Hussein Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 45	Posted - 2015.07.07 21:18:35 - [75] - Quote I too dreamed back when starting 2009 someday flying those big ships in trailers... Well, if CCP see this is best for the game, I guess I just chew it, like many times before. I certainly hope some future expansion will bring new and good balanced use for caps worth their price, but I feel it-¦s going to be long wait. Then again, nothing new in EvE
Pew Terror Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 221	Posted - 2015.07.07 21:32:35 - [76] - Quote I have a serious question that I cannot wrap my head around (I am poor and new and fly small stuff and have no idea): On the one hand I constantly see posts coming up about supers being useless. On the other hand there is the same amount of posts about supers being disgustingly oppressive. Which one is it?
Ionsei Kubarick State War Academy Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.07.08 01:23:15 - [77] - Quote Pew Terror wrote: I have a serious question that I cannot wrap my head around (I am poor and new and fly small stuff and have no idea): On the one hand I constantly see posts coming up about supers being useless. On the other hand there is the same amount of posts about supers being disgustingly oppressive. Which one is it? They're totally useless, except when they are disgustingly oppressive.
Dantelion Shinoni SQUIDS. 17	Posted - 2015.07.08 01:26:51 - [78] - Quote davet517 wrote: Again, you have an issue of cost. Nobody is going to field a 100 billion isk blap-titan that has had its HP and damage slashed, just because. It's just not worth the risk. If we were talking about a 10 billion isk Titan that was 5 times more effective against sub-caps than a dread, and 5 times as survivable, for 5 times the cost, maybe. Not for 50 times the cost. You can theory craft all kinds of ways to make them "force multipliers", but there are far too many of them now for that to be a reasonable role to play for all of us who trained for them and ground out the isk to buy them. CCP is promising a "re-balance", but, don't hold your breath. "Motherships" languished for years before Dominion. It's not at all unlikely that supers and titans will do the same now, while CCP pursues it's grand plan for a new sov game. If they give you an extra 5%, 10%, or other small amounts of damage, HP, AND damage application than a dread, wouldn't you be willing to sacrifice the extra hundreds of billions for that advantage as an alliance/coalition? People seems to be willing to do it at the scale of a ship. If anything those ships need a buff, yes a buff, so that people get them out there ang get them to die. They need a major buff to damage application so that the absence of structures to shoot at is not fatal to them. People need to feel good about fielding them against subcaps. What they need a nerf to is their ability to preserve themselves, remove Capital Reps as suggested, limit their ability to be repaired, etc.. Then they will be extremely benefitial to the game in that they will serve as a way to empty the unending vaults out there, kinda like a consumable for extra power with a sizeable cost but worth the cost once you can afford everything else.
45thtiger 0109 AL3XAND3R. 152	Posted - 2015.07.08 02:53:47 - [79] - Quote Hemmo Paskiainen wrote: good for you! death to all supers! subcap is more fun anyway Agreed I was thinking quite a few years back to get into a Super Carrier or a titan. But when I heard that you need to stay an a SC or a titan logged off I thought it is a waste of my time. Where in a sub cap you can at least dock up in a station or fly to a pos and do lots of other great things. JF and rorques are fine as they are caps and the JF you can at least dock them up safely. And we should not forget those sneaky blackops ships that can jump clokey stealth bombers and other clokey ships into your system as well. Fun Fun Fun that is why ccp should continue with the subcaps and bring more new ships into the game. BTW CCP is doing a great job and yes they are human, and mistakes like we all do. You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good. Welcome to EvE OnLiNe
GankYou Redshield Holding Company 750	Posted - 2015.07.08 10:11:59 - [80] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: GankYou wrote: Dear, oh dear, oh dear - 17.5k DPS becomes 17.2k. you just won the internet Erryday. Although, it is probably closer to 17k flat. ...And they all crave one thing - ISK. ¤ [WTS] ME10 / TE20 BPOs from Battleships/Cruisers to Freighters, Carriers, Triage/Siege, XL modules & Cap Components
Wooly Akachi What Could Go Wrong Lethal Intent. 45	Posted - 2015.07.08 10:25:42 - [81] - Quote Dantelion Shinoni wrote: ... If they give you an extra 5%, 10%, or other small amounts of damage, HP, AND damage application than a dread, wouldn't you be willing to sacrifice the extra hundreds of billions for that advantage as an alliance/coalition? People seems to be willing to do it at the scale of a ship. If anything those ships need a buff, yes a buff, so that people get them out there ang get them to die. They need a major buff to damage application so that the absence of structures to shoot at is not fatal to them. People need to feel good about fielding them against subcaps. What they need a nerf to is their ability to preserve themselves, remove Capital Reps as suggested, limit their ability to be repaired, etc.. Then they will be extremely benefitial to the game in that they will serve as a way to empty the unending vaults out there, kinda like a consumable for extra power with a sizeable cost but worth the cost once you can afford everything else. I like your idea. Supers become week but very high DPS and make them on grid fleet boosters. On the flip side Dreads should keep their current DPS and application but should become tank monsters. 1 SC vs 2 Dreads should be a close call I know everyone will say but SC are $$$$, but they will be able to apply the DPS to alot more. /ME fitted Damage control II before flaming begins :P Edit: maybe the dread should be buffer mega tank than high resists - give the subs a chance
Gramps Pljugi Fragile Mortality 0	Posted - 2015.07.08 19:03:16 - [82] - Quote Im reading this thread and wondering, with all the pros and cons of the caps and someone mentioned that there is unlimited supply to them (in a sense lots of people.own them nowadays). What's the point of owning a cap ship that you field maybe once a year. Why isn't there a Fuel cost associated with owning one, be it active or unsubbed account, there should be some way to maintain that ship, so that actually owning one requires using it instead of holding it for kicks. I say 1bil monthly maintanance cost for titans, half of that for sc's. :D
Joe Atei Aes Dei Asher 19	Posted - 2015.07.08 19:11:44 - [83] - Quote Gramps Pljugi wrote: Im reading this thread and wondering, with all the pros and cons of the caps and someone mentioned that there is unlimited supply to them (in a sense lots of people.own them nowadays). What's the point of owning a cap ship that you field maybe once a year. Why isn't there a Fuel cost associated with owning one, be it active or unsubbed account, there should be some way to maintain that ship, so that actually owning one requires using it instead of holding it for kicks. I say 1bil monthly maintanance cost for titans, half of that for sc's. :D I believe a maintenance cost would put more people off of them than they already are going to be. Also, 1 bil a month isn't much and people would use subcaps to make the isk to buy the fuel or whatever.
Gramps Pljugi Fragile Mortality 0	Posted - 2015.07.08 19:27:10 - [84] - Quote Joe Atei wrote: Gramps Pljugi wrote: Im reading this thread and wondering, with all the pros and cons of the caps and someone mentioned that there is unlimited supply to them (in a sense lots of people.own them nowadays). What's the point of owning a cap ship that you field maybe once a year. Why isn't there a Fuel cost associated with owning one, be it active or unsubbed account, there should be some way to maintain that ship, so that actually owning one requires using it instead of holding it for kicks. I say 1bil monthly maintanance cost for titans, half of that for sc's. :D I believe a maintenance cost would put more people off of them than they already are going to be. Also, 1 bil a month isn't much and people would use subcaps to make the isk to buy the fuel or whatever. So whats the point of it then? Caps are needed for large fights, any solo person has no use for it other then "bragging rights". To make them effectivly usefull and to fuel large fights one needs to use them not hold them for a fight that happens once a year and is usualy in blobs where you allready know you won when you fielded 100 supers. Issue is generaly if you can afford to buy one, then you should be able to afford paying for it to have it, if your not going to use it sell it. The question becommes when does it becomme too expensive to hold? 10 months? Sc is 5bil, 20 months 10bil, thats almost half of it, if nothing at all people will use them out of necessity as not to bleed money. I would suggest that it be handled in a way that Supers get a corp which needs to be paid off to hold the SC, alliance can handle the cost, if the player is not in an alliance, cost is doubled for instance. If the player can't pay, the Super is "confiscated" in a sense, once you log in where you had super your in a pod, if you wish to get it back, pay the fee you didn't pay, and you get a location in a journal where a covert cyno will open and they will jump your ship in, you can board it and voila you have it back. I understand this conflicts with the mechanic which is active that requires you have a character in the ship at all times, but this way it would be better on the long run for Eve. Flame all you want but i stand behind this idea as a good one, details can be talked through but this might be a good draft CCP, notice me senpai!
Iain Cariaba 1622	Posted - 2015.07.10 16:03:57 - [85] - Quote The answer is simple: Death to all supers. Delete them from the game. EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid. I couldn't have said it better. Will troll for a t-shirt.
Digits Kho Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 73	Posted - 2015.07.10 16:22:19 - [86] - Quote Death to supers ladies and gents
Dominique Vasilkovsky BFG Tech 292	Posted - 2015.07.10 20:21:58 - [87] - Quote ItburnsWhenIRightClick wrote: CCP please tell me that As my main spent nearly a year subbing my account to train up to fly a super and you keep chipping away at killing them off in the game.. Now you nerf the DDA's and we all know supers use at least one or more for general use. Is there any way for a refund on skillpoints so I can fly a subcap and enjoy the game as im thinking Elite Dangerous might be better now. Much love and happiness to all you all out there. I never trained for them :smug: Dominique Vasilkovsky EVEboard Once known as: Mashie Saldana sold - Anastasia Rigel sold - Monica Foulkes sold
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 29	Posted - 2015.07.11 05:41:05 - [88] - Quote Iain Cariaba wrote: The answer is simple: Death to all supers. Delete them from the game. LOL no not really the answer. A more realistic one would be a complete redesign of SC & Titans by squishing their Sigs and mass down to about the same size as Caps and make them T2 Caps with T2 like abilities.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 38665	Posted - 2015.07.11 05:53:23 - [89] - Quote Gramps Pljugi wrote: Im reading this thread and wondering, with all the pros and cons of the caps and someone mentioned that there is unlimited supply to them (in a sense lots of people.own them nowadays). What's the point of owning a cap ship that you field maybe once a year. Why isn't there a Fuel cost associated with owning one, be it active or unsubbed account, there should be some way to maintain that ship, so that actually owning one requires using it instead of holding it for kicks. I say 1bil monthly maintanance cost for titans, half of that for sc's. :D This would fail, simply on the basis that you point out in relation to the rarity of use of Capitals. The easiest thing to do would be to transfer all your assets that have a maintenance cost to one character and leave it unsubbed, then only resub it when you need to use it. While already a lot of characters go unsubbed and are resubbed only when needed, the approach to requiring maintenance costs would do little to discourage capital use, other than being another ISK sink. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Hir Miriel Elves In Space 209	Posted - 2015.07.11 12:35:15 - [90] - Quote ItburnsWhenIRightClick wrote: Much love and happiness to all you all out there. Combat in games is very difficult to successfully update on the grand scale. Minor changes such as balance tweaks to a class in WoW or LoL are fine, and part of that neverending cycle of minor balancing that game devs do when they are bored. But big change, like this SOV stuff, which I don't understand at all, remind me of massive failures in past games, specifically combat update changes. The now dead Star Wars Galaxies had their Combat Upgrade, one of the factors which saw them down to 10,000 subscribers before being killed off for the release of Star Wars The Old Republic. Runescape lost 1.2 million subscribers in less than 2 years, because of their Evolution of Combat update. Which was an update designed to make combat "fun". Combat is risky business. CCP has a better track record with communication, and that's what caused the main difficulties with the above two examples. Let's hope it's enough, but communication has chokepoints and we tend to like people who like what we say, so let's cross our fingers when we push our Supercapital's ignition button. ~ ~~ Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox. ~~ ~
Caleb Seremshur Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance 575	Posted - 2015.07.12 12:43:12 - [91] - Quote davet517 wrote: I think CCP has painted themselves into a corner on this one, honestly. The problem with SCs and Titans is their cost. They don't cost a bit more than a cap. They cost many times as much. If you make them powerful enough to justify their cost, they are the apex force in the game. If you diminish their power enough to keep them from being the apex force, they're no longer worth what they cost. Through changes to how they work (tracking, DD, drones), they were already relegated to the role of capital killer and structure grinder. Now, no structure to grind takes one of those away, and makes fielding capitals for them to kill a lot less necessary to boot. Post fozzie-sov, the only natural escalation to supers will be to kill off triage carriers, and, why risk supers to do that when you can do it with dreads at a fraction of the cost? There isn't a "balance pass" that's going to fix this. In the post fozzie-sov game, they're going to be largely irrelevant, just as "mother ships" were before Dominion. The best thing to do would be to just remove them, and refund their cost and skill points. The next best thing to do would be to sharply cut their cost relative to capitals, and refund the difference to those who own them now. 6 billion isk super-carriers and 20 billion isk Titans that can dock would make some sense to keep as breakers of triage blobs in the post fozzie-sov game. What is moon mining? What is an entire series of orbital structures coming for caps to shoot? Have you graduated to smoking the koolaid now? Dreads show up to shoot towers, you bring supers to kill dreads, they bring titans to kill your supers. Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.

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