Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
10755
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 14:05:08 -
[31] - Quote
T2 mods and weapons for frigs are generally cheaper than most of the lower skill stuff apart from basic T1. Best bang for your isk usually. Easy enough to get a full fit with 1mo of training, as one of my alts has. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
24129
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 14:15:20 -
[32] - Quote
Count of MonteCylon wrote:I posted this in another thread but figure it's worth making my own just to see if anyone agrees with me. I have a feeling that this will make more established players cringe but I do believe it's true:
The challenge in making Eve accessible from a PvP standpoint isn't in the number of skill points that people start in, it's related to the expense as well as to the time required before you can "afford to lose" the T2 and higher items. Giving me more skill points to begin with won't meaningfully shrink the gap because it'll still be months at least before it's economically worth it for me to fly the things that dominate the PvP game. If I play casually (which I do) it's never worth it and between that and the long waits inherent to Eve PvP it's fundamentally not worth it for me to treat this as a PvP game.
Tl;dr -- giving me more SP won't make it cost effective for me to fly the good stuff against older players or players who have way more time to spend on the game than I do. TL;DR The people who have taken the time to master something are better at it than the people who haven't.
Welcome to the human condition.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Angelica Dreamstar
Miner's House of ill repute
690
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 14:18:03 -
[33] - Quote
Jonah! That was damn close to the answer of my questions!
It's really like doing community work and when you don't see me post I had a day off. We have thirty five degree here! Asphalt's melting everywhere, sticking on MY SHOES! Can't even smoke, the cig dries out after a minute. What clothes do I wear? :)
|
Ivant Sumboodi
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
20
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 14:19:56 -
[34] - Quote
Guys like this make me worry, consider this-
they got rid of Learning Skills in 2008, they got rid of clones/upgrades/sp loss in 2013(2014? cant remember), so what'll happen 4 years from now? Getting rid of SP as we know it? |
Naga Elohim
Aeras Krekan Syndicate
23
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 14:33:46 -
[35] - Quote
Set up a PI farm. Use the proceeds to buy T2 gear. Rinse and repeat.
It's easy when you know how! |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
10756
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 14:33:57 -
[36] - Quote
Ivant Sumboodi wrote:Guys like this make me worry, consider this-
they got rid of Learning Skills in 2008, they got rid of clones/upgrades/sp loss in 2013(2014? cant remember), so what'll happen 4 years from now? Getting rid of SP as we know it? Would still be too hard for some. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
1802
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 18:29:41 -
[37] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Would still be too hard for some. Some? You have spoken to average people lately?
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
Baaldor
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society Black Legion.
352
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 18:48:37 -
[38] - Quote
Count of MonteCylon wrote:I posted this in another thread but figure it's worth making my own just to see if anyone agrees with me. I have a feeling that this will make more established players cringe but I do believe it's true:
The challenge in making Eve accessible from a PvP standpoint isn't in the number of skill points that people start in, it's related to the expense as well as to the time required before you can "afford to lose" the T2 and higher items. Giving me more skill points to begin with won't meaningfully shrink the gap because it'll still be months at least before it's economically worth it for me to fly the things that dominate the PvP game. If I play casually (which I do) it's never worth it and between that and the long waits inherent to Eve PvP it's fundamentally not worth it for me to treat this as a PvP game.
Tl;dr -- giving me more SP won't make it cost effective for me to fly the good stuff against older players or players who have way more time to spend on the game than I do.
So you are basically telling the audience, that due to the fact you have time restraints, you are to be catered to?
|
Angelica Dreamstar
Miner's House of ill repute
712
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 19:26:28 -
[39] - Quote
Time can not be barrier. The ONLY possible occation when that happens is when you can literally count the remaining days of your lifetime. As it would be unfair to change everything for 1 of 150.000 people dieing daily, and because time can not ever be a barrier, I declare
/thread.
Time always flows. The problem is that there are people who mistake Eve for an arcade game and we notice their bad influence in respect to our game. They believe they should have a say in things, but aren't even really a part of it. Most demands and wishes of these people result in saving time and/or challenges and skipping parts of the game to get to that which they then lower down to their primitive kind of FUN! You guys are like fw isk farmers. You suck the life out of this game!
EVE ONLINE is not arcade game, where you jump into the fun! You have no idea, mate.
It's really like doing community work and when you don't see me post I had a day off. We have thirty five degree here! Asphalt's melting everywhere, sticking on MY SHOES! Can't even smoke, the cig dries out after a minute. What clothes do I wear? :)
|
Divine Entervention
The Retired Officers Club
507
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 19:29:54 -
[40] - Quote
Those with the advantages will make whatever case they can to keep them.
We don't want competition here.
More Easy wins and QQ please |
|
Kaivar Lancer
Placid Peace Corps
626
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 19:40:26 -
[41] - Quote
Many meta-level items are more expensive than T2s... |
Yarda Black
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
759
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 19:43:30 -
[42] - Quote
I agree with the OP. I feel I'm at a significant disadvantage not being able to PvP with officer mods. This is most definitely not caused by a lack of skillpoints! (it is by a total lack of skill itself, but thats our little forum-secret)
But seriously; T2 >T1 in most cases (not all!). That being said; I've always believed the words I heard in one of EVE's most early trailers:
"Sure they're always trying to build a faster ship or better weapons. But they just don't get it. Brains are a better weapon than any Megathron class battleship or any graviton smartbomb."
|
Baaldor
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society Black Legion.
352
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 19:43:59 -
[43] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Those with the advantages will make whatever case they can to keep them.
We don't want competition here.
More Easy wins and QQ please
Are you talking about an online internet space pixel game?
Because if you are, you just clearly proved you know very little about the game.
|
DaReaper
Net 7
2298
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 19:45:07 -
[44] - Quote
TL;DR
but to the op:
You sound like someone who looks to get a new job but goes 'Oh wait no, they have guys that have been there for 10 years with newer tools then i have.. yea sorry i won;t take that job"
Change your mentality. not that difficult
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1260
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 20:21:19 -
[45] - Quote
I bought my first BCU for 9mil isk... yea... lol @ cost of t2 stuff now
according to EFT all the slasher fits I have cost between 4-7mil and that is with a mix of t2 and meta stuff. Merlin 2.5mil for a meta fit, up to 11.4mil for a t2 and meta 4 fit (drops to 7mil with meta 3 scram/web). A beam slicer is 20mil add 5mil for a 2% cpu implant. A tristan with t2 drones is 7something mil.
isk making isn't really all that hard, and in many ways is easier, and some ways harder, than when I started.
@ChainsawPlankto
|
GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
745
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 20:30:51 -
[46] - Quote
I remember Large Shield Extenders II at 25 mil p/u.
...And they all crave one thing - ISK. ¤
[WTS] ME10 / TE20 BPOs from Battleships/Cruisers to Freighters, Carriers, Triage/Siege, XL modules & Cap Components
|
Count of MonteCylon
the Devout Order of the Vermillion Exhumers
55
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 03:36:35 -
[47] - Quote
Another example on how cost is a barrier to entry:
Let's say you have a fleet of 3 punishers against a fleet of 3 pirate faction frigates. Even if they have close to the same skill points it's no contest.
Add in how the people flying the pirate faction frigates are willing to wait 6 hours to set up their optimal fight and how it costs the new players more time to field their punishers than it costs the established players to field their pirate frigs and it should be clear why giving more skill points out is going to bring about very little change.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. -- Ephesians 6:12
|
Count of MonteCylon
the Devout Order of the Vermillion Exhumers
55
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 03:37:40 -
[48] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:TL;DR
but to the op:
You sound like someone who looks to get a new job but goes 'Oh wait no, they have guys that have been there for 10 years with newer tools then i have.. yea sorry i won;t take that job"
Change your mentality. not that difficult Eve is a job now?
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. -- Ephesians 6:12
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
3036
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 04:56:37 -
[49] - Quote
Count of MonteCylon wrote:Angelica Dreamstar wrote:Why are you incapable of dealing with something tens of thousands did before you? Why do you need it easier than all of those who were successful before you? You are rambling....
Rambling...in two sentences. I don't think you know what the word rambling means.
If anything give your recent posting incontinence on the forums, you are the one rambling.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
|
DaReaper
Net 7
2302
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 05:10:14 -
[50] - Quote
Count of MonteCylon wrote:DaReaper wrote:TL;DR
but to the op:
You sound like someone who looks to get a new job but goes 'Oh wait no, they have guys that have been there for 10 years with newer tools then i have.. yea sorry i won;t take that job"
Change your mentality. not that difficult Eve is a job now?
always has been, what you did not know? ;)
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
|
|
Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
23
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 06:50:33 -
[51] - Quote
You might want to check the KB for that character before raising that video as a banner.
- 17 days isn't extreme, and certainly far less than most PvP ready fits require (Suitonia's own "Low SP" Kestrel vids are 6M+ SP) - but I'd hesitate to call anything over 48 hours 'newbro' friendly.
- What was Suitonia able to kill?
- Interceptors.
- An Industrial.
- a drunk FN Comet.
- a couple Bombers who got caught with their pants down.
- Suitonia explained on a follow up lecture to PL that the reason he even got the Inty kills was because they just went "lolT1" and basically refused to fight back. 5:20
- For the commentary on that video, Suitonia claimed that the fight against the Enyo was close. I don't want to say it wasn't as they both went into structure, but the stars aligned to even make that fight close. Primarily, the Enyo pilot appeared to be running the EVE Uni fit while Suitonia happened to be running Fusion S. Even fighting a pilot likely underestimating as badly as the Intys were, and abusing the Enyo's unfilled Explosive resist hole - Suitonia still lost.
- Complains that he got baited by a dishonorburu pilot who dared fit an AB.
Basically, a 17 day pilot can kill things that either can't or won't fight back. I didn't need Suitonia for that, I could have just asked CODE. |
Barrogh Habalu
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
907
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 08:04:44 -
[52] - Quote
Yarda Black wrote:"Sure they're always trying to build a faster ship or better weapons. But they just don't get it. Brains are a better weapon than any Megathron class battleship or any graviton smartbomb." Something of notice is that brains with Megathron class battleship and some graviton smartbombs are better than ones without. |
Falken Falcon
32081
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 08:12:44 -
[53] - Quote
Count of MonteCylon wrote:Another example on how cost is a barrier to entry:
Let's say you have a fleet of 3 punishers against a fleet of 3 pirate faction frigates. Even if they have close to the same skill points it's no contest.
Add in how the people flying the pirate faction frigates are willing to wait 6 hours to set up their optimal fight and how it costs the new players more time to field their punishers than it costs the established players to field their pirate frigs and it should be clear why giving more skill points out is going to bring about very little change. I don't even have the words for this.. I'm just gonna offer you this: Sisi, it is the place you want tq to be, but luckily it already exists. Everything is seeded and costs 100 isk. You also get 2mil sp everytime you join testing stuff. Have fun
Count of MonteCylon wrote:Eve is a job now? Yes, eve is an social experiment to see if people would pay for a job, if their cubicle would be a spaceship.
Aye, Sea Turtles
|
Anthar Thebess
1214
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 10:14:29 -
[54] - Quote
When i started to play you could use a drake to get into any fleet It was good . 1 Not skill intensive hull or weapon system 2. Newbe could easy go unnoticed by enemy , as he was in right ship , and it is hard to difference skills or equipment on field. 3. Loosing uninsured drake resulted in nothing more than 20mil loose ( much less if you where using T1 stuff)
Now, after all this changes and balance changes when you want to join a fleet : 1. You need to fly : T2 Hac , T2 Logi , T3 Cruiser , Faction Battleship 2. Newbie is not welcomed, as he usually don't have skills , for ship and mods required 3. Loosing one of those ships result in at least 120mil loose , but usually around 300mil
From perspective of older player , loosing became more expensive , but there is no problem in terms of hulls , as i don't fly only mining barge/rorqual/jf, 2 freighters and cannot use doomsday or fighter bombers ...
This shift in meta was very bad for new players , yes T1 cruisers where boosted, but in current meta real play starts when you can put in a good use , normal ships (T2 Hac , T2 Logi , T3 Cruiser , Faction Battleship). Then you can farm as much as you can those unlucky newbies in T1 cruisers that don't have any chance.
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
1810
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 11:17:45 -
[55] - Quote
Date of Birth: 2011-04-30
As a miner on 2011-07-29 I lost a hurricane in PVP. That is just three months, (I think there were still learning skills around), including mining ships and haulers before I was one of the main PVPers in my corporation. I used to take a horrible fit Cyclone (yes, you can see my most recent loss is still horrible) and jump first into a gang that were declaring war on us as they thought we were soft targets. Then I would try and hold tank, transversals, active, overheating, getting under the guns, while being the primary target long enough for us to break our target. We had no logi pilots. Our average skill points was probably around 5 million. It was some of the most exhilirating PVP that I have ever done (10 to 15 vs 10 to 15). Feeling the pulse of that battle under my finger tips, holding on as the fight pivots on two of us, trying to push that little more. The stakes were high, these were guys who had bought BPCs and mined the minerals for their hulls to save a little ISK. We were poor and new. Failure would be a big hit to us.
There is fun to be had if you are in a group with the right attititude and determination.
The old adage, "Only a poor workman blames his tools"
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
.
High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
24155
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 14:28:33 -
[56] - Quote
Count of MonteCylon wrote:Another example on how cost is a barrier to entry:
Let's say you have a fleet of 3 punishers against a fleet of 3 pirate faction frigates. Even if they have close to the same skill points it's no contest. A Punisher in the hands of someone who is intimately familiar with their ships capabilities is more than capable of taking on a pirate faction frigate in the hands of someone who is not so familiar with their ships capabilities.
Knowledge, or lack thereof, is far more of a barrier to PvP than cost.
Quote:Add in how the people flying the pirate faction frigates are willing to wait 6 hours to set up their optimal fight and how it costs the new players more time to field their punishers than it costs the established players to field their pirate frigs and it should be clear why giving more skill points out is going to bring about very little change. That's called picking your battles, it's one tactic among many that is universally available, it's not a guaranteed "I win".
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Origin. Black Legion.
2351
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 17:51:41 -
[57] - Quote
Count of MonteCylon wrote:I posted this in another thread but figure it's worth making my own just to see if anyone agrees with me. I have a feeling that this will make more established players cringe but I do believe it's true:
The challenge in making Eve accessible from a PvP standpoint isn't in the number of skill points that people start in, it's related to the expense as well as to the time required before you can "afford to lose" the T2 and higher items. Giving me more skill points to begin with won't meaningfully shrink the gap because it'll still be months at least before it's economically worth it for me to fly the things that dominate the PvP game. If I play casually (which I do) it's never worth it and between that and the long waits inherent to Eve PvP it's fundamentally not worth it for me to treat this as a PvP game.
Tl;dr -- giving me more SP won't make it cost effective for me to fly the good stuff against older players or players who have way more time to spend on the game than I do. I'm going to agree with you. As my heretical article here mentioned, Elite:Dangerous are really onto something with their ship insurance model.
F
Would you like to know more?
|
Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
26
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 20:36:20 -
[58] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Elite:Dangerous are really onto something with their ship insurance model. Not sure you could actually work that. You can say you'll pay out 95% of the ship's cost, but since EVE ships are made from player mined minerals an increase in beautiful space explosions puts upward pressure on costs unless there's also a correlating increase in mining.
Or put more simply, if you blow ships up faster than the bot-miners can replace them then the X% insurance deficit will just end up rising until you're right back at net cost/ship levels that you wanted to avoid.
|
Divine Entervention
The Retired Officers Club
507
|
Posted - 2015.07.09 06:22:18 -
[59] - Quote
All these dudes have come before us.
They've put in the time. They've been paying the subs that power the game.
The rest of us have been doing who knows what. What right do we have to demand the same capabilities as them? We don't.
You've spent $15 to play this game, why should you be equal to those who've accounted for hundreds, thousands of dollars on sub fees and plexes?
If isk is what's holding you back, buy Plexes. If it's skill points, buy a character.
Sure, it'll cost money. But this is all the result of your choice to not have been already putting forth the effort to accomplish whatever your goals are.
|
Fatoria Hemah
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
19
|
Posted - 2015.07.09 06:41:07 -
[60] - Quote
Bro, if you through me an ingame message I give you a 1 Week Skill-Plan and throw away cheap fit that will make you worthwhile in any pvp battle if you have some friend that also use it.
This is the barrier for pvp -> Ingame friends |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |