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tiller Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.30 17:15:00 - [1] WARNING - THIS POST MAY CONTAIN WHINING, PLEASE LEAVE NOW IF EASILY OFFENDED (the below is from the perspective of a low sec gate camper, please mind the randomness of my thinking.. im a stupid pirate) WARP TO 0KM By forcing PVP to the jump in side of gates and removing approach / dock areas eve has become simplistic and dare I say dull. PVP around gates has turned into a sick game of dare with people afraid to aggro. Yes I've posted a thread on adapting but unless I team up with a whole bunch of people it aint really gonna happen on a daily basis. Most PVP is at gates period, eve has lost it's soul. NO STABS The removal of stabs from combat has made taking on a larger target or multiple targets suicide. Why on earth should you not be able to pick a fight on the 'off chance' that you can win the day or inflict some kind of damage on the enemy without being able to escape. Without the option of fitting a stab or two every solo mission becomes a suicide one where I'm going to lose a ship. No more fighting in a highly hostile system.... People who like the change fall into two cats, either rich, or don't take risks. (or both) What person ever fought a battle where retreat was not a option. HP INCREASE Translated to - 'prolong combat so the bears can win', well... every fight is now a long drawn out process where you take forever to inflict damage and so increase the chance of reinforcements showing up and killing you. So much for a fast paced 'hit and run' style game. Everything feels 'slow motion' FAST SHIPS / SLOW SHIPS Who cares, I travel everywhere in a instant, with everyone almost entirely within hug range of gates whats the point of being able to move at all in fact. All ships should just have warp and no moving (hell you don't need it) MODULE STACKING (this is from RMR) Never has two words made eve so dull. I want ships with all out dmg, ships with all out tanks, ships with all out speed etc etc etc etc. Lets have weird and wacky setups that people don't find out about till we engage in combat. I want to be able to attack a geddon and not know if it's tanked or ganked... I want to be able to sacrifice all 8 slots of a scorp to insta lock frigs.. hell I'm giving up all tank and have no dmg why shouldn't I be able to ? Dull dull dull dull dull.... VERY DULL CCP UNKNOWN SPACE lol, it doesn't exist, just another system I can move freely about. Why bother traveling at all.. I could write pages on this stuff, Building 'safety' into a game removes the fun. This is a FACT I know my feelings are shared by many (and many players who have been in from beta), of course I also know alot of people would love nothing bad to ever happen in eve... Eve is currently suffering from a case of 'chronic carebearism', and I believe there is no cure. Oveur even stated at fanfest that where is the fun in losing a ship. You are wrong, IT IS EVERYTHING TO THE GAME btw, am I quitting, not yet... but VERY close tbh. (yes you can have my stuff if I leave) Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage
Smagd Encina Technologies Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.11.30 17:21:00 - [2] You forgot one change: STUPIDLY EASY MISSION PROBING It's in fact so stupidly easy to gank low sec mission runners in their deadspaces now that they all move to high sec. -- Thukkers do
tiller Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.30 17:27:00 - [3] how about.. NO SAFE SPOTS So I manage to escape my hunters, I'm not safe, 15secs and it's all over. Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage
Traxio Nacho Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.30 17:31:00 - [4] Edited by: Traxio Nacho on 30/11/2006 17:33:46 Edited by: Traxio Nacho on 30/11/2006 17:32:35 "NO STABS The removal of stabs from combat has made taking on a larger target or multiple targets suicide. Why on earth should you not be able to pick a fight on the 'off chance' that you can win the day or inflict some kind of damage on the enemy without being able to escape. Without the option of fitting Quote: a stab or two every solo mission becomes a suicide one where I'm going to lose a ship. No more fighting in a highly hostile system..." Why should you be able to engage someone attempt to kill them then run away when you know you will die? "MODULE STACKING (this is from RMR) Never has two words made eve so dull. I want ships with all out dmg, ships with all out tanks, ships with all out speed etc etc etc etc. Lets have weird and wacky setups that people don't find out about till we engage in combat. I want to be able to attack a geddon and not know if it's tanked or ganked... I want to be able to sacrifice all 8 slots of a scorp to insta lock frigs.. hell I'm giving up all tank and have no dmg why shouldn't I be able to ? Dull dull dull dull dull.... VERY DULL CCP" I kind of agree with you here it was fun to see dual mwd ships, 8 dmg mod gank setups and other whacky setups. "Eve is currently suffering from a case of 'chronic carebearism', and I believe there is no cure. Oveur even stated at fanfest that where is the fun in losing a ship. You are wrong, IT IS EVERYTHING TO THE GAME Must have missed bit of fanfest i'm pretty sure he didnt say wheres the fun in losing a ship. However I don't think Eve is being carebearism its just you want to do the old sit at gate 23/7 and kill stuff rather than actaully having to look for a fight.
tiller Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.30 17:32:00 - [5] Edited by: tiller on 30/11/2006 17:38:41 It was when he replied to warp to 0km question and said why should a noob lose his ship in low sec, where is the fun. Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage
Traxio Nacho Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.30 17:35:00 - [6] Dam quote thing grrrr So he made a comment about it not being fun to kill noobs that hardly means Eve is turning in "Carebear Ville".
Megadon Caldari Deathshead Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.30 17:43:00 - [7] Tiller, you are really funny. First you make a post about how warp to 0 has been over come as if you've discovered something new. But its been an old tactic to deal with instas for quite some time. Now youre ranting about the death of pvp and how stuff is boring when rigs now introduce an element of the unknown into ship setups. Scanning has been buffed and ferreting out mission runners is now actually something a noob pirate can do. Just adapt.
Le Pecarosh	Posted - 2006.11.30 17:44:00 - [8] So, EVE is dead because CCP didn't make it 100% to your liking? Go look for someone who wants to fight. Easy to find them. Only trouble is that they pew-pew back...
tiller Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.30 17:46:00 - [9] Originally by: Le Pecarosh So, EVE is dead because CCP didn't make it 100% to your liking? Go look for someone who wants to fight. Easy to find them. Only trouble is that they pew-pew back... Yes ....and what is 'pew pew' plz explain Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage
Shadoo North Eastern Swat	Posted - 2006.11.30 17:57:00 - [10] It's early days still, I personally at least am still adopting to the changes. I do have to say though, few first fights after kali are much less thrilling for me personally. With the HP increase warping to belts and doing a quick gank & run before the locals come to aid is pretty difficult with the target being BC or above. Combat in low sec seems to me to be moving towards either a) 5 min NOS + thousand cuts or b) gank fest. Both are indeed what I consider pretty dull. I enjoyed warping to a belt alone in a smaller ship in hopes of a quick thrilling fight. Now it's more like warping to a belt with a nos-whatever, killing target slowly and scanning constantly to see how many gankers arive to help save the day. Without solo pirating being a thrilling option, pirates will adapt no doubt (thou I've only been in low sec killing business for a short while myself). Low sec will probably end up going towards most 0.0 style roaming gank gang combat (perhaps it has already been so for a while(?), it's my first time in 0.1-0.4 for a year). It's a shame I think... Most pirates are higher SP than the victims, so of course victims will have to group up and blob. More HP = time enough for anti-pie gang to form up. More chance of getting hit by a anti-pie blob = pirates need to roam in gank gangs. And here I was looking going into low sec solo combat for a change from the alliance blobbing . Ah well... Have to adapt and find some friends I suppose .

Traxio Nacho Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.30 18:03:00 - [11] Edited by: Traxio Nacho on 30/11/2006 18:04:13 I biggest thing here is you don't want to look for a fight, you want to be able to sit on a gate in Egg/Amamake/Dal/etc and kill stuff that comes along without instas. If something more than a solo ship comes along you want to be able to possibly engage it and then run away if you are losing. Or thats how i'm reading it. Also the HP increase has clearly given people coming to the gate more time to live but surely its also given you more chance to tank the sent guns?
tiller Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.30 18:03:00 - [12] Agree, lucky eve is a massive game with many different things to do. I'm gonna suggest BNK become a mining corp in high sec space. Anyone willing to take us on ?, I can mine in raven and phoenix currently. Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage
kublai Short Attention Span	Posted - 2006.11.30 18:08:00 - [13] Edited by: kublai on 30/11/2006 18:09:15 I completely disagree with everything you said tiller, I don't mind thats the game you want but I want the game i've been given. I'm not overly fond of warp to 0 but the lag induced by bm's and hassle of keeping track of them was worse, personally I would have prefered a ban on insta's but I take what I get. I loathe the all out gank fleets and much prefer a longer battle, it's all down to personal preference I guess but I LOVE this new eve i've been given. Also, most my gate ganks are my thorax killing things coming -out- of the gate, then again, I never did like sniping or gate camping much, different tastes but for me? Thank's CCP, one happy pirate. Edith: Oh and stabs, if someone doesnt have the balls to risk his ship vs me he should just plain stay away, what is this, world of warcraft? Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Skooney Gallente Universal Agencies	Posted - 2006.11.30 18:12:00 - [14] Shadoo! Keep in touch m8! Great to see you still out and about! As for the OP - Personally I love the changes, the last couple fights I have been in, all 0.0 mind you, have been great fights! They last longer, more time to think, more time to strategise - That being said however, it was only to a max of 25% increase, so it only takes a little longer. Your Phoenix has a massive HP increase, which was needed, as I think Capital Ships should have a "presence" in the combat front, not something that can be taken down with ease, or HAS to be safe spotted to do damage on the front line. At any rate, I think is a great step in the right direction. "Change is good, adapt and overcome." Universal Agencies
Shadoo North Eastern Swat	Posted - 2006.11.30 18:17:00 - [15] Originally by: Traxio Nacho Edited by: Traxio Nacho on 30/11/2006 18:04:13 I biggest thing here is you don't want to look for a fight, you want to be able to sit on a gate in Egg/Amamake/Dal/etc and kill stuff that comes along without instas. If something more than a solo ship comes along you want to be able to possibly engage it and then run away if you are losing. Or thats how i'm reading it. Also the HP increase has clearly given people coming to the gate more time to live but surely its also given you more chance to tank the sent guns? I know this is directed at the OP, but... Personally I never did the low sec gate camping thing (except for one freighter that took a dodgy insta), never thought it would be very interesting... Since I am however an equal opportunity killer, I did enjoy placing a Helios with 2x7.5km scrams and 2x Phased Muons on top of people who did enjoy gate sniping & warping to 0km with a blastermega . I don't see much of this happening anymore, but ah well... I think that regardless of OP's chosen style of low sec business, the changes have possibly gone a long way to change 0.1-0.4 into a much safer place. Pirates looking for quick profit blasting noobs on AP to hell and back might have to change styles or go look other type of play. Belt pirates looking to solo in small ships for the thrill of taking on a bigger ship, and thus somewhat bridging the SP gap will have to change as fights go on long enough for help to arrive. People enjoying killing anything and everything (pirates flashing red at gates, bigger carebear ships in belts, etc) will have less to do in low sec alone. Time will tell I think if low sec becomes much more safer or if indeed pirates start just ganking stuff with quick roaming gangs and no one's any better off. I think it's safe to say that few styles of play, whatever you might think about them, are going away and players will be adapting to something else. I'm not personally whining about change -- just a little bid sad to see what got my heart pumping & hooked up to the game a year ago as a noob going away...
t72Buttz	Posted - 2006.11.30 18:23:00 - [16] Agreed with tiller here mostly and as a side note im not pirate
Ezok Lyrad Minmatar SANDMADI EXPLORATION AND EXTRACTION KOMPANY	Posted - 2006.11.30 18:24:00 - [17] "WARNING - THIS POST MAY CONTAIN WHINING, PLEASE LEAVE NOW IF EASILY OFFENDED" Thanks I did not even bother to read it and just wanted to say thnx for the warning so I did not waste any of my time! ******************************************************* *******************************************************
Christopher Dalran	Posted - 2006.11.30 18:24:00 - [18] If rumors are correct interdictors will be able to drop warp disruptor probes in low sec (not high sec tho), no deployable ones tho. As for stabs you can mitigate a stab by fitting a sensor booster, bad alone but if you have several smaller ships between everyone you'll have enough mid slots to cover the essential modules (dont forget you'll need less jamming str as your enemy sufferes from fitting stabs aswell so you should have more mids open for a booster anyway).
tiller Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.30 18:24:00 - [19] Originally by: Ezok Lyrad "WARNING - THIS POST MAY CONTAIN WHINING, PLEASE LEAVE NOW IF EASILY OFFENDED" Thanks I did not even bother to read it and just wanted to say thnx for the warning so I did not waste any of my time! Even worse you posted in it Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage
LittleTerror Caldari Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.30 18:28:00 - [20] I'm done with lowsec, its time to move into highsec and start killing the children, I wanna see this amazing skill these carebears have. The remote tanking hawk is cool and stuff but its not the same with 0km warps, it feels dead I will miss 15km warpins But you have not got your way carebears, we are gonna murder you even more, one corp at a time, you will be destroyed. ___________________________________________________ I want your stuff

tiller Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.30 18:31:00 - [21] I like a good whine every now and again... Thanks for the replys, I think alot of you make good points and I should just shutup and play not whine :-) I guess I just miss the old days... when you play a game non stop for several years of course when things change you get abit mad. Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage
Kiyirari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.30 18:46:00 - [22] I cry a single tear, for you and your brethan Only joking must be hard not being able to truly adapt... I thought you was omni potent Tiller master of the universe, slayer of carebear To you, EVE may of lost its soul but have you lost your soul that is the question... Where their is a will their is a way... BTW if ya do quit EVE, can i have your stuff Revenge is my god and my guns are her angels
LittleTerror Caldari Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.30 18:59:00 - [23] Edited by: LittleTerror on 30/11/2006 18:59:51 Originally by: Kiyirari I cry a single tear, for you and your brethan Only joking must be hard not being able to truly adapt... I thought you was omni potent Tiller master of the universe, slayer of carebear To you, EVE may of lost its soul but have you lost your soul that is the question... Where their is a will their is a way... BTW if ya do quit EVE, can i have your stuff We are looking at options and with the flavour of causing max distress and carnage because quite frankly we are ****ed... ___________________________________________________ I want your stuff
OUTLANDOS	Posted - 2006.11.30 19:26:00 - [24] To the OP...AGREED 100%...welcome to the wonderful world of WOW------>EVE.. look mom, im turning into a carebear....mom to son---------->*****-cat.
Kiyirari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.30 19:26:00 - [25] Ye i understand, prehaps the day of solo piracy may be over at the gates, but with revalations patch i think it will bring a new form of piracy but not as we know it With warp to 0km people may feel safer to visit low sec, in time you may find the belts full of tender carebear flesh prime for the kill Maybe on a larger scale you may wish to engage in a protection racket do people not produce T2 items at pos hey cheap items catching meh drift... Imagine control of a region with well travelled pipe ya still get abit camping in and belt hunting of strays, raking in abit of isk from protection, cheap items etc slaves for you... Invite some other pirates types along get a semi alliance going, its not pure piracy buts it sure is a form of piracy but not as we know it... Ya gonna need these fancy big ships and all, recon maybe a dread or two some mothers etc ya got something going... Think large 'n' big Revenge is my god and my guns are her angels
Kaynard Stormwalker Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2006.11.30 19:30:00 - [26] You do have points, but at least they made probing easier. No more gatecamps (well kind of, doing the boosting thing is a hassle), but now its way easier to mission gank. :D I know I will start doing it eventually, just need dedicated people to make it work.
LittleTerror Caldari Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.30 19:45:00 - [27] Originally by: Kiyirari Ye i understand, prehaps the day of solo piracy may be over at the gates, but with revalations patch i think it will bring a new form of piracy but not as we know it With warp to 0km people may feel safer to visit low sec, in time you may find the belts full of tender carebear flesh prime for the kill Maybe on a larger scale you may wish to engage in a protection racket do people not produce T2 items at pos hey cheap items catching meh drift... Imagine control of a region with well travelled pipe ya still get abit camping in and belt hunting of strays, raking in abit of isk from protection, cheap items etc slaves for you... Invite some other pirates types along get a semi alliance going, its not pure piracy buts it sure is a form of piracy but not as we know it... Ya gonna need these fancy big ships and all, recon maybe a dread or two some mothers etc ya got something going... Think large 'n' big They brought it to a whole new level, one which is gonna be hated, I'm sorry but I hate 0.0 I have been there, I don't wait for people to finnish their tea i'll attack when ever I please. Besides I'm a pirate I and I will be lame in the pursuit of other peoples stuff, I want your STUFF simple as, I don't like making isk through legit ways. So I'm gonna rob peoples corp hangers, I'm gonna infiltrate corperations and learn about that hauler carrying over 1 billion isk and have it ganked. I'm gonna enjoy my gaming experance by ruining yours (thanks System-lords for that ideal will always love you <3) So think 'large and big' you will need it.. LT ___________________________________________________ I want your stuff
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.11.30 19:50:00 - [28] Originally by: Megadon Tiller, you are really funny. First you make a post about how warp to 0 has been over come as if you've discovered something new. But its been an old tactic to deal with instas for quite some time. this "solution" includes a quite massive gatecamp. WTZ will hurt the massive gatecamps minimal. but it will hurt those who hunt their prey - especially when the prey uses i-stabs and instas to the gate/station Quote: Now youre ranting about the death of pvp and how stuff is boring when rigs now introduce an element of the unknown into ship setups. check the prices when rigs are on the market and say this again. Quote: Scanning has been buffed and ferreting out mission runners is now actually something a noob pirate can do. and from a pirates point of view i can only say - that's ***** wrong. why? it's too *** easy now to scan something. you don't need playerskill to get a result, all that matters are skillpoints. Quote:** Just adapt. yeah - i could "adapt" and start camping one of the chokepoints with a large bubble and kill EVERYTHING that wants to move through with the rest of my gang. but that's not my definition of fun. ___________________ EVE: Revelations - The Game for Carebears and Gankbears no more skill needed for PvP - only skillpoints for Large Bubble and CovOps n00b-alts
Ironnight Caldari Bloody Needles	Posted - 2006.11.30 19:54:00 - [29] I am really trying to find a nice way to say this, but ffs, its been two days, give it some time! Yes you have to change some things, but that is often a good thing, keeps you on your toes, also it can be fun to find new tactics, how freaking dull would this game become if it stayed the same all the freaking time. Now I cant really get into the mindset that sitting at a gate for hours, doing very little can be fun, hell mining sounds about as fun as that. I like the thrill of the hunt, I like the feeling I get when I warp into a fight, not knowning if I will make it or not, hell its fun. I am not playing this game to make play money, I just want to have fun, and have enough play money to fit a new ship, when I loose the one I have.
Megadon Caldari Deathshead Inc.	Posted - 2006.11.30 19:56:00 - [30] Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte Originally by: Megadon Tiller, you are really funny. First you make a post about how warp to 0 has been over come as if you've discovered something new. But its been an old tactic to deal with instas for quite some time. this "solution" includes a quite massive gatecamp. WTZ will hurt the massive gatecamps minimal. but it will hurt those who hunt their prey - especially when the prey uses i-stabs and instas to the gate/station Quote: Now youre ranting about the death of pvp and how stuff is boring when rigs now introduce an element of the unknown into ship setups. check the prices when rigs are on the market and say this again. Quote: Scanning has been buffed and ferreting out mission runners is now actually something a noob pirate can do. and from a pirates point of view i can only say - that's ***** wrong. why? it's too *** easy now to scan something. you don't need playerskill to get a result, all that matters are skillpoints. Quote:** Just adapt. yeah - i could "adapt" and start camping one of the chokepoints with a large bubble and kill EVERYTHING that wants to move through with the rest of my gang. but that's not my definition of fun. Carebear.



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