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Captin ShadowHawk Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.30 23:56:00 - [1] High: 6 Heavy Launchers II Med: 3 Tech 2 Large Shield Extenders 1 EM and 1 Invulni Field Low: 3 PDS II 2 BCU II This ship is now much improved
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.12.01 00:29:00 - [2] My exact setup. Use a t2 kin/therm hardener set and you'll passive tank LVL 4s like nothing. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Jin Entres Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.05 11:03:00 - [3] Nighthawk (heavies / active / lg crystals) Another tanky setup of mine with approx 340 DPS with crappy skills. Now I just need the rigs... ---
Calprimus Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2006.12.05 11:12:00 - [4] High: 6 Heavy DG Med: 2 Gist small SB 1 DG amp 1 large SE T2 1 inv T2 (to change according to mission rat dmg Low: 1 PDS II 3 DG BCU 1 Internal DCU 5x T2 Drones Thats for Lv4 missions.
HyJek	Posted - 2006.12.07 02:24:00 - [5] Edited by: HyJek on 07/12/2006 02:24:32 Edited by: HyJek on 07/12/2006 02:24:14 High: 6x Heavy Missile Launcher II 1x Medium Diminishing Nos or Gang Mod Med: 1x Gist C-Type Large Shield Booster 1x Shield Boost Amp 1x Photon Scattering II 2x Invul Field II Low: 2x BCU II 2x PDU II 1x Internal Force Field Array Gets all resists to at least 82% I believe and you have great tanking ability with the Gist booster. This ship is really quite nice now with the changed bonus and is really like a Cerberus on steroids .
Chejun Ishari	Posted - 2006.12.07 07:02:00 - [6] Originally by: Captin ShadowHawk High: 6 Heavy Launchers II Med: 3 Tech 2 Large Shield Extenders 1 EM and 1 Invulni Field Low: 3 PDS II 2 BCU II This ship is now much improved I use the same setup except instead of the 3 PDU II I use a faction RCU and two SPRs (can you invent the t2s?
Roxanna Kell BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2006.12.07 07:07:00 - [7] I would give you my set up, but than i would have to kill you. ARENA
HyJek	Posted - 2006.12.12 01:14:00 - [8] Originally by: Roxanna Kell I would give you my set up, but than i would have to kill you. Heh I'm actually quite interested in how you fit this...
lordferatu	Posted - 2006.12.13 20:29:00 - [9] Edited by: lordferatu on 13/12/2006 20:40:23 was wondering why no one uses the heavy assult missiles? are the heavy assults affected by the command ships skill bonus? currently it says: Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to assault missile, heavy assault missile and heavy missile launcher rate of fire and 5% bonus to all shield resistances per level Command Ships Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to heavy missile Kinetic damage and 5% bonus to heavy missile precision per level so im assuming no to the damage and precision bonuses on the assults which seems a bit lame :( was really looking foward to using this ship in small gang pvp. assuming you have a decent tackler with you, you can land on top of your target and not worry about the range of the missiles. fit a nice passive tank and have nice dps with the insane rate of fire you couold potentially achieve with the heavy assult launcher. was hoping for this setup or similar but if the command ships skill bonus dont apply to heavy assults then i will have to settle for the regular heavys. High: 6 Heavy Assult Launchers II 1 warfare link mod Med: 3 Large Shield Extenders II 1 EM II and 1 Invul Field II Low: 2 SPR 3 BCU II edit: havent actually looked at any numbers on this and i just thought im probably gonna have to fiddle with the setup if i want to use the t2 high damage assult missiles on top of 2 SPR's. cap regen probably wont be enough to run those active hardeners so might have to have another look at those shield compensation skills or something
DARKKK	Posted - 2006.12.13 20:32:00 - [10] Edited by: DAR** on 13/12/2006 20:33:10* 6x dg heavy gist xl booster, dg amp, 2x dg invul, pith em hardener 2x db pdu, 3x dg bcu missile dmg rig and shield booster cap reduction rig Should nearly perma run booster and do more than 500dps with t2 rigs. Now pay me.
HyJek Central Defiance Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.01.02 17:55:00 - [11] Is it possible to fit an XL booster on this?
Hephaesteus Gallente PILGRIMS Insane Asylum	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:54:00 - [12] lvl 4's are a breeze with a Nighthawk 6 Heavy missle launchers T2 1 Med nos T2 1 Large shield booster 4 active hardeners T2 2 Pdu T2 3 Ballistic Controls T2 and drones or though I have never needed to use them in this ship. ----------------------------------------------- Knowing all, when all is unknown.
Yarek Balear The Initiative	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:04:00 - [13] For sh*ts and giggles I thought I'd get one and try it out... first attempt at setup so far is: High: 6 x Heavy Missile Launcher IIs Med: Photon Scattering II, 2 Invul II, Large Shield Booster II, Medium Electromechanical (w/400s) Low: 2 PDU II, 3 BCU II Dronebay - 5 light t2s. Just started using it and it seems good so far - LVL Silence the Informant just completed solo with no problems whatsoever...
Frederik Andersen	Posted - 2007.01.10 20:46:00 - [14] Edited by: Frederik Andersen on 10/01/2007 20:48:19 High: 6x Heavy Missile Launcher II 1x Medium 'Ghoul' Energy Siphon I, or gang mod Med: 1x Gist B-Type Large Shield Booster 1x Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction 2x Dread Gurista Magnetic Scattering Amplifier 1x Dread Gurista Invulnerability Field Low: 4x PDU II 1x Internal Force Field Array This is the best setup by far, its dueable in all categories. I use this setup with full Low Grade Crystal implants.. Works like a charm.
Frederik Andersen	Posted - 2007.01.10 20:46:00 - [15] Edited by: Frederik Andersen on 10/01/2007 20:48:19 High: 6x Heavy Missile Launcher II 1x Medium 'Ghoul' Energy Siphon I, or gang mod Med: 1x Gist B-Type Large Shield Booster 1x Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction 2x Dread Gurista Magnetic Scattering Amplifier 1x Dread Gurista Invulnerability Field Low: 4x PDU II 1x Internal Force Field Array This is the best setup by far, its dueable in all categories. I use this setup with full Low Grade Crystal implants.. Works like a charm.
J Valkor	Posted - 2007.01.10 21:18:00 - [16] -Highs- 6x Heavy Missile Launcher II's 1x Tractor Beam -Medium- 1x Pithum A-Type Magnetic Scattering Field 1x Invulnerability Field II (Yes, I need to upgrade it to a dread) 3x Large Shield Extender II's -Low- 2x Ballistic Control System II's 2x Power Diagnostic System II's 1x Shield Power Relay -Rigs- 2x Core Defense Field Purgers 17998 Shields with 389 second recharge. 246 DPS. Though I can quite a bit of room for improvement on this. It is still enough to take out anything I've faced in lvl 4 missions. Obviously, it's an omni tank.
xHalcyonx Amarr EmpiresMod	Posted - 2007.01.25 01:56:00 - [17] My dream Nighthawk setup: *Nighthawk* High: Dread Guristas Heavy Missile Launcher [45xScourge Heavy Missile] Dread Guristas Heavy Missile Launcher [45xScourge Heavy Missile] Dread Guristas Heavy Missile Launcher [45xScourge Heavy Missile] Dread Guristas Heavy Missile Launcher [45xScourge Heavy Missile] Dread Guristas Heavy Missile Launcher [45xScourge Heavy Missile] Dread Guristas Heavy Missile Launcher [45xScourge Heavy Missile] Corpum A-Type Medium Nosferatu Med: Gist A-Type Large Shield Booster Dread Guristas Ballistic Deflection Field Dread Guristas Ballistic Deflection Field Dread Guristas Heat Dissipation Field Dread Guristas Heat Dissipation Field Low: Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dark Blood Power Diagnostic System Dark Blood Power Diagnostic System Rigs: Capacitor Control Circuit I \ Capacitor Control Circuit I Drones: Hobgoblin II Hobgoblin II Hobgoblin II Hobgoblin II Hobgoblin II Resists: 6357 shield E/T/K/Ex=25/94/93/69 4035 armor E/T/K/Ex=59/79/53/10
Scordite	Posted - 2007.01.29 16:57:00 - [18] Originally by: xHalcyonx My dream Nighthawk setup: Dream setup? Hm, this would be funny.. Nighthawk 6x Heavy Missile Launcher II [40xScourge Fury Heavy Missile] 1x Corpum A-Type Medium Nosferatu 3x Luther Veron's Modified Shield Extender (is this really the best one?) 1x Estamel's Modified Magnetic Scattering Amplifier 1x Estamel's Modified Invulnerability Field 2x Shield Power Relay II 3x Chelm's Modified Power Diagnostic System 2x Core Defence Field Purger II 5x Hornet EC-300 Full hg halo set 5% shield hp/shield recharge/launcher rof/explosion radius hardwires 20546 shield, 231.72/s, E/T/K/Ex=85/88/85/84 (if no cap left, drops to 72/78/72/70) 4466 cap, +13.93/s, -3.333/s 309m sig radius 175.0 m/s 306.6 DPS Extreme tank, extreme cost, extreme sadness when it pops, extreme happiness for whoever loots the can ----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2007.01.29 17:05:00 - [19] Originally by: Scordite Originally by: xHalcyonx My dream Nighthawk setup: Dream setup? Hm, this would be funny.. Nighthawk 6x Heavy Missile Launcher II [40xScourge Fury Heavy Missile] 1x Corpum A-Type Medium Nosferatu 3x Luther Veron's Modified Shield Extender (is this really the best one?) 1x Estamel's Modified Magnetic Scattering Amplifier 1x Estamel's Modified Invulnerability Field 2x Shield Power Relay II 3x Chelm's Modified Power Diagnostic System 2x Core Defence Field Purger II 5x Hornet EC-300 Full hg halo set 5% shield hp/shield recharge/launcher rof/explosion radius hardwires 20546 shield, 231.72/s, E/T/K/Ex=85/88/85/84 (if no cap left, drops to 72/78/72/70) 4466 cap, +13.93/s, -3.333/s 309m sig radius 175.0 m/s 306.6 DPS Extreme tank, extreme cost, extreme sadness when it pops, extreme happiness for whoever loots the can dude the best shield extender ingame is large shield extender II ;-)dunno what you're *****ing about luther veron''s crap also if you're gonna do pve there's numerous setups that'll tank more then yours shield power relay II? post realistic setups
Scordite	Posted - 2007.01.29 18:35:00 - [20] Just said it'd be funny, sheesh. And yeah, shields are not really my strong side, as you can obviously tell ----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.
Spineker Caldari	Posted - 2007.02.14 20:55:00 - [21] Edited by: Spineker on 14/02/2007 20:53:39 Since it is a ferox on steroids the first setup is most excellent. The ferox begs to be passive shield tank you can get them to recharging as well as shield booster and with great resist. With the TechII extenders it has lots of points and 400ish to 500ish recharge on shields with relays it can really take some damage. You have to give up some missile damage though do to the relays replacing BCUs but the command ship has one more low slot so you could do 3 relays and 2 bcuIIs plus rigs and wow. And of course if you get into a fight cap means nothing because they can not nos you to death they just waste their time. Add a med nos if you can and they will run out way before you do and when you do it is not an issue don't need cap. That is the great thing about passive which everyone already knows. :)
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.02.14 21:58:00 - [22] I also can't believe so many people active tank the nighthawk. The ship begs to be passive tanked... and it does it amazingly well. You can tank over 2000 Kinetic dps easily with a passive setup and 1400+ thermal (The races doing kin/therm do far more kinetic than thermal anyhow). The following setup handled Pirate Slaughter without having to warp out while aggro'ing the entire blob on every stage. Hi's: 6 Heavy Launcher II's, Tractor Beam Mid's: 2 Large Extender II's, 2 Kinetic Hardener II's, 1 Thermal Hardener II Lows: 2 SPR, 3 BCS II Rigs: 2 Core Defence Purger's This is a very very simple setup and works amazingly well. For missions that do all 4 dmg types or for easier missions you can use 2 Invuln Fields II's and a shield recharger. For EM/Therm missions you use 2 EM Hardeners, 1 Thermal. For Expl/Kin missions you can use either 1 and 1 hardener of each then 1 invuln (since it's angels you will want the little bit of EM resist too). You'll have plenty of cap to run the hardeners forever. This works on every single level 4. I EASILY tanked World's Collide with this setup... it was easier than some level 3's were in a ferox back in the day. I've never once had to warp out of a level 4 mission with this setup... only once did I even get close to having to and it was a mission with 9 BS's and 20+ other ships on me at once. Save the hundreds of millions on those ultra expensive faction boosters... you don't need em. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Neon Fury	Posted - 2007.02.14 22:05:00 - [23] Currently finishing off all of my support skills before jumping into my nigthawk, but my setup will be as follows - for gang PVP -: 6 T2 HML Vepas Large Shield Booster True Sansha Med. Cap. Booster(800s) T2 SBA -may be changed for something else- T2 Invuln T2 EM 3 T2 BCU 2 T2 PDS
Tornado	Posted - 2007.02.14 22:41:00 - [24] i dont fly a command ship but wont it be good to fit a siege warfare link module for the spare high slot?
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.02.14 23:07:00 - [25] Good luck fitting the warfare link... it's gonna eat up a lot of Grid and maybe even too much CPU. If you wanna use the links than you might as well fly a vulture and go full tilt at them. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
MuffinsRevenger EmpiresMod	Posted - 2007.02.14 23:31:00 - [26] Originally by: xHalcyonx My dream Nighthawk setup: Haklyjon fails! This is how you do it! ...Allthough my HML ROF is actually down to 5.33 now :D runs forever, tanks annything ^_^
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.02.15 00:19:00 - [27] Those Invulns are so sexy. I really should just splurge and buy a few for myself... and get some SPR II's while I'm at it. I can tank level 4's easily with basic T2 stuff... but maybe I can actually use a 4th BCS for that added 10-12% dps it adds. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Lilith Thy'nin Caldari Turbulent	Posted - 2007.02.15 03:46:00 - [28] Edited by: Lilith Thy''nin on 15/02/2007 03:49:47 i lol at you all for "DREAM" NH fittings i think this kinda hands it to you all http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9814/20070205142110po2.jpg
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.02.15 04:35:00 - [29] Originally by: xHalcyonx My dream Nighthawk setup: *Nighthawk* High: Dread Guristas Heavy Missile Launcher [45xScourge Heavy Missile] Dread Guristas Heavy Missile Launcher [45xScourge Heavy Missile] Dread Guristas Heavy Missile Launcher [45xScourge Heavy Missile] Dread Guristas Heavy Missile Launcher [45xScourge Heavy Missile] Dread Guristas Heavy Missile Launcher [45xScourge Heavy Missile] Dread Guristas Heavy Missile Launcher [45xScourge Heavy Missile] Corpum A-Type Medium Nosferatu Med: Gist A-Type Large Shield Booster Dread Guristas Ballistic Deflection Field Dread Guristas Ballistic Deflection Field Dread Guristas Heat Dissipation Field Dread Guristas Heat Dissipation Field Low: Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dark Blood Power Diagnostic System Dark Blood Power Diagnostic System Rigs: Capacitor Control Circuit I \ Capacitor Control Circuit I Drones: Hobgoblin II Hobgoblin II Hobgoblin II Hobgoblin II Hobgoblin II Resists: 6357 shield E/T/K/Ex=25/94/93/69 4035 armor E/T/K/Ex=59/79/53/10 You don't need Kinetic Hardeners when killing Guristas, which that setup looks to be for. Two Kinetic hardeners is more than you need, thermal dmg from Guristas is almost nothing given the already plenty of resists you have in thermal. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.02.15 07:06:00 - [30] 4 Invuln fields in that listed setup are just stupid to run. The 4th one prob hurts the tank more than it helps it due to cap drain. It's a good way to show off.. that's about it. I bet if I used only two of those invulns in a passive setup I'd get better tanking than that setup gets with all those other stupidly expensive mods that are wasted. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Brackun Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.02.15 13:52:00 - [31] Originally by: Lilith Thy'nin Edited by: Lilith Thy''nin on 15/02/2007 03:49:47 i lol at you all for "DREAM" NH fittings i think this kinda hands it to you all http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9814/20070205142110po2.jpg Provide a screenshot of the resistances when undocked with all of them invulns active :D _________ Don't use the word "toon" to refer to your character, people find this irritating and it may label you a retard.
Scordite	Posted - 2007.02.15 14:45:00 - [32] Edited by: Scordite on 15/02/2007 14:42:34 Originally by: Deathbarrage post realistic setups Better rise to the challenge then.. 2 generic gang pvp setups, depending on if you prefer focus on dps or tank. As disposable as command ships get, and highly resistant to nos. 6x Heavy Missile Launcher II [40xScourge Fury Heavy Missile] 1x Small Energy Neutralizer II 3x Large Shield Extender II 1x Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II 1x Invulnerability Field II 2x Power Diagnostic System II 3x Ballistic Control System II 2x Core Defence Field Extender I 5x Hobgoblin II 24265 shield, 81.36/s, E/T/K/Ex=72/84/80/78 4203 armor, E/T/K/Ex=59/79/53/10 4134.374624490746 cap, +15.68/s, -9.45/s 175.0 m/s 452.2 DPS Or 6x Heavy Missile Launcher II [40xScourge Fury Heavy Missile] 1x Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing 3x Large Shield Extender II 1x Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II 1x Invulnerability Field II 3x Dark Blood Power Diagnostic System 1x Power Diagnostic System II 1x Ballistic Control System II 2x Core Defence Field Extender I 5x Hornet EC-300 26752 shield, 107.14/s, E/T/K/Ex=72/84/80/78 4203 armor, E/T/K/Ex=59/79/53/10 4558.147609502133 cap, +20.65/s, -8.2/s 175.0 m/s 278.8 DPS Relevant shield and missile hardwires in place. Bit better I hope? Edit: Resists from warfare link on second setup not factored in I guess. ----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.
Spineker Caldari	Posted - 2007.02.19 18:48:00 - [33] All those overpriced Dread Guristas lunchers? All that other gurista nonsense. I really don't understand the cost of these faction pieces. I have a friend spent all his money on a shield booster for his raven. He could have bought 10 ravens for what he paid them or 5 ravens Tech2'ed out. I guess there is a cool factor there somewhere. Will be a 2 billion dollar ship... I wouldn't undock. Anyway T2 Heavies are much better with a wider range of missiles. High: 6 Heavy Launchers II tractor/salvager whatever maybe nos if you cna fit it Med: 3 T2 Large Shield Extenders 1 t2 EM 1 t2 Invul Field Low: 3 SPR II 2 BCU II 5 tech II baby drones for pesky frigs
Alvida	Posted - 2007.02.21 16:10:00 - [34] Haven't used the NH for anything but lvl4 missioning, but this setup let me take 'em as a breeze. 6Xheavy launcher T2 1 small nos (No real need for this, but, hey! - It fits!) 1 X large CL-5 shieldbooster, 1 X invulnifield T2,1X large shieldextender T2, 1X eutectic cap recharger, 1X AB T2 (optionally another hardener/caprecharger/Whatever) 4XBallistic controls T2, 1X PDU T2 5X light Drones T2 Haven't even gotten to rigs... Maybe I'll discover a need for 'em sometime? Not a omfg expensive setup and as said: I've yet to cancel a lvl4 in this baby... Enjoy!
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.21 17:17:00 - [35] Anyone have anything that includes mwd & 2x large extenders ? -------- .....
Joseph Boscorelli Caldari Collateral Damage Unlimited	Posted - 2007.02.21 22:33:00 - [36] Originally by: Captin ShadowHawk High: 6 Heavy Launchers II Med: 3 Tech 2 Large Shield Extenders 1 EM and 1 Invulni Field Low: 3 PDS II 2 BCU II This ship is now much improved My exact Lvl 4 set up with an EM rig, a shield recharge rig and 5 x Hornet II's. Can solo every mission so far except the final stage of Angel Extravaganza for which I use a corp mate to help. Fantastic ship that has no trouble with the fast frigs and can tank several BS's for ever. No need for NOS as I never drop below 90% Cap. I have a salvager in the last top slot for those quick missions (Zazzmatazz) where you can salvage in a short space of time. Not used it in PVP.
J Valkor	Posted - 2007.02.22 00:17:00 - [37] Originally by: Spineker All those overpriced Dread Guristas lunchers? All that other gurista nonsense. I really don't understand the cost of these faction pieces. I have a friend spent all his money on a shield booster for his raven. He could have bought 10 ravens for what he paid them or 5 ravens Tech2'ed out. I guess there is a cool factor there somewhere. Will be a 2 billion dollar ship... I wouldn't undock. Anyway T2 Heavies are much better with a wider range of missiles. High: 6 Heavy Launchers II tractor/salvager whatever maybe nos if you cna fit it Med: 3 T2 Large Shield Extenders 1 t2 EM 1 t2 Invul Field Low: 3 SPR II 2 BCU II 5 tech II baby drones for pesky frigs I've always wondered why people post builds that wouldn't fit. I mean, if you can fit all of that, please tell me. However, as it stands, you are going to need to replace one of the SPR 2's with a PDS because there is no way in hell you are fitting that as it stands. (I have Advanced Upgrades to 4 and Shield Upgrades to 5 as well as the 3% implant.)
Garonis Caldari Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2007.03.28 16:32:00 - [38] My nighthawk fit is: high 6 HMLII's med 1 LSRII, 1 EMII, 1 Therm II, 1 KinII, Medium Electrochemical cap inj. (400's) low 2 BCUII, 1 SigAmpII 2 PDSII 5 light t-2 drones I plan on throwing on a EM and Explosive resistance rigs on shortly, should give resists of over 80% in all catagories. This is my sig ^^
wvari BLACK DRAGONS CORPERATION Terror In The System	Posted - 2007.04.08 22:01:00 - [39] Originally by: Scordite Edited by: Scordite on 15/02/2007 14:42:34 Originally by: Deathbarrage post realistic setups Better rise to the challenge then.. 2 generic gang pvp setups, depending on if you prefer focus on dps or tank. As disposable as command ships get, and highly resistant to nos. 6x Heavy Missile Launcher II [40xScourge Fury Heavy Missile] 1x Small Energy Neutralizer II 3x Large Shield Extender II 1x Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II 1x Invulnerability Field II 2x Power Diagnostic System II 3x Ballistic Control System II 2x Core Defence Field Extender I 5x Hobgoblin II 24265 shield, 81.36/s, E/T/K/Ex=72/84/80/78 4203 armor, E/T/K/Ex=59/79/53/10 4134.374624490746 cap, +15.68/s, -9.45/s 175.0 m/s 452.2 DPS Or 6x Heavy Missile Launcher II [40xScourge Fury Heavy Missile] 1x Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing 3x Large Shield Extender II 1x Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II 1x Invulnerability Field II 3x Dark Blood Power Diagnostic System 1x Power Diagnostic System II 1x Ballistic Control System II 2x Core Defence Field Extender I 5x Hornet EC-300 26752 shield, 107.14/s, E/T/K/Ex=72/84/80/78 4203 armor, E/T/K/Ex=59/79/53/10 4558.147609502133 cap, +20.65/s, -8.2/s 175.0 m/s 278.8 DPS Relevant shield and missile hardwires in place. Bit better I hope? Edit: Resists from warfare link on second setup not factored in I guess. How about keeping the majority of this, but swapping out the magnetic scattering amp tech II and the invulnerability field II, with Estamel versions? That would give a significant bonus.
Ral Ulgur Helion Production Labs	Posted - 2007.04.08 22:16:00 - [40] Originally by: J Valkor Originally by: Spineker All those overpriced Dread Guristas lunchers? All that other gurista nonsense. I really don't understand the cost of these faction pieces. I have a friend spent all his money on a shield booster for his raven. He could have bought 10 ravens for what he paid them or 5 ravens Tech2'ed out. I guess there is a cool factor there somewhere. Will be a 2 billion dollar ship... I wouldn't undock. Anyway T2 Heavies are much better with a wider range of missiles. High: 6 Heavy Launchers II tractor/salvager whatever maybe nos if you cna fit it Med: 3 T2 Large Shield Extenders 1 t2 EM 1 t2 Invul Field Low: 3 SPR II 2 BCU II 5 tech II baby drones for pesky frigs I've always wondered why people post builds that wouldn't fit. I mean, if you can fit all of that, please tell me. However, as it stands, you are going to need to replace one of the SPR 2's with a PDS because there is no way in hell you are fitting that as it stands. (I have Advanced Upgrades to 4 and Shield Upgrades to 5 as well as the 3% implant.) I have the same fitting skills. 6 HML IIs don't fit, as you stated (with AWU V you can replace one of the lowslots with a faction PDU, I think even a t2 PDU may work). Ironically 6DG HML make the setup fit exactely (with AWU IV, SU V)... it's also what I run and it works like a charm.
Horza Otho Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus	Posted - 2007.04.09 01:10:00 - [41] Edited by: Horza Otho on 09/04/2007 01:07:31 6x ham II 2x invul II 3x LSE II 5x spr II 2x purger Is what i would use tbh.
Ral Ulgur Helion Production Labs	Posted - 2007.04.09 15:49:00 - [42] Edited by: Ral Ulgur on 09/04/2007 15:46:08 Originally by: Horza Otho Edited by: Horza Otho on 09/04/2007 01:07:31 6x ham II 2x invul II 3x LSE II 5x spr II 2x purger Is what i would use tbh. Do you have engineering at VII or AWU at XI?
Rilgar Lo'thar	Posted - 2007.04.11 14:13:00 - [43] How about this for gang... High: 6 x Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing Medium: Photon Scattering Field II Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II Shield Recharger II Fleeting Warp Scrambler I Low: 2 x Ballistic Control System II 3 x Power Diagnostic System II Rigs: Core Defence Field Purger I \ Core Defence Field Purger I Drones: 5 x Hobgoblin II 11073 shield, 73.05/s, E/T/K/Ex=75/84/80/78 580 DPS using Fury Terror HAM's at 11Km 497 DPS using Terror HAM's at 13Km 435 DPS using Javelin Terror HAM's at 50Km Using a 5% Shield Upgrade Grid reduction implant, 3% Missile ROF Implant, 3% Shield HP Implant Resists not including gangmod bonus... Anybody feel like calculating what it would be after gangmod bonus?
CarefulMethod Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.11 14:28:00 - [44] For missioning level 4s I use: 6xHeavies II 1xTractor Beam 1x10mn AB II For those mobs that tend to run or try to stay at range. 2xLarge Shield Extenders II 1xDread Guristas Kinetic Deflection (Passive) 1xInvulnerability Field II 3xPDS II 2xBCU II 5xlight drones II Easy to passive tank level 4s with a little smarts. Cap never goes below 60% even with AB and invulnerability running full time. I find the AB really useful in picking up loot and closing the distance with mobs that hit you at twice your own weapon range.
CarefulMethod Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.11 14:28:00 - [45] For missioning level 4s I use: 6xHeavies II 1xTractor Beam 1x10mn AB II For those mobs that tend to run or try to stay at range. 2xLarge Shield Extenders II 1xDread Guristas Kinetic Deflection (Passive) 1xInvulnerability Field II 3xPDS II 2xBCU II 5xlight drones II Easy to passive tank level 4s with a little smarts. Cap never goes below 60% even with AB and invulnerability running full time. I find the AB really useful in picking up loot and closing the distance with mobs that hit you at twice your own weapon range.
Captain O'bvious	Posted - 2007.04.13 04:02:00 - [46] Originally by: Ral Ulgur Do you have engineering at VII or AWU at XI? My AWU goes to XI!!
Horza Otho Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus	Posted - 2007.04.13 04:31:00 - [47] Originally by: Ral Ulgur Edited by: Ral Ulgur on 09/04/2007 15:46:08 Originally by: Horza Otho Edited by: Horza Otho on 09/04/2007 01:07:31 6x ham II 2x invul II 3x LSE II 5x spr II 2x purger Is what i would use tbh. Do you have engineering at VII or AWU at XI? Yeah i do, just gottaswitch on my devh4x.
Wrayeth Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.04.14 03:50:00 - [48] 6 HAM launcher II 1 large shield booster II (or faction) 1 Y-T8 10MN MWD 1 fleeting warp scrambler 1 invulnerability field II (or faction) 1 medium electrochemical cap injector (800's) 2 ballistic control II 1 ballistic control II or damage control 2 reactor control II 1 shield EM rig 1 shield boost duration reduction rig ECM drones or warriors -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" Might As well Train Another Race
AFTRUNX Caldari Human Liberty Syndicate Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.18 13:29:00 - [49] Nice Fitting for Small PVP Gang (HAC's, Recons, Assault Frigs & Command ships), if you can effort it.. Nighthawk Heavy Missile Launcher II [40xScourge Fury Heavy Missile] Heavy Missile Launcher II [40xScourge Fury Heavy Missile] Heavy Missile Launcher II [40xScourge Fury Heavy Missile] Heavy Missile Launcher II [40xScourge Fury Heavy Missile] Heavy Missile Launcher II [40xScourge Fury Heavy Missile] Heavy Missile Launcher II [40xScourge Fury Heavy Missile] Turret Slot Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I [1xCap Booster 800] J5 Prototype Warp Inhibitor I Gist C-Type Large Shield Booster Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II Rigs : Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I \ Bay Loading Accelerator I \ Acolyte II Acolyte II Acolyte II Acolyte II Acolyte II 6357 shield, 18.98/s, E/T/K/Ex=76/85/82/81 466.11 DPS The Shield Booster is Key for this fitting. You can run it also with a T2 but with more Cap problems. ~20sec can be a long time if you run out of CAP.. ------------------------------ It's great to be a Caldari....
Phoster	Posted - 2007.05.08 02:59:00 - [50] I cant seem to fit more than 1 LSE II and the other 2 MSE II. How are you guys fitting 3?
xHalcyonx Amarr EmpiresMod	Posted - 2007.05.08 20:11:00 - [51] Originally by: Phoster I cant seem to fit more than 1 LSE II and the other 2 MSE II. How are you guys fitting 3? Advanced Weapon Upgrades 3 or 4 3% or 5% decreased shield upgrade powergrid requirements ( Zainou 'Gnome' KUA1000[3%] and Zainou 'Gnome' KUA2000[5%] respectively).
Ferocious FeAr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.05.08 20:33:00 - [52] Edited by: Ferocious FeAr on 08/05/2007 20:33:02 MWD on a nighthawk is really pointless. You are putting a serious disadvantage on your tank. If you aren't armor tanking/fleet setup.. having a MWD is just a flaw in your setup. Don't hate me, learn to love me
RockTheCasbah	Posted - 2007.05.15 00:55:00 - [53] I just am getting into my Nighthawk, and I was wondering if anyone could help me with a good small-gang PVP setup. Thanks
AFTRUNX Human Liberty Syndicate TALIONIS ALLIANCE	Posted - 2007.05.18 13:33:00 - [54] Edited by: AFTRUNX on 18/05/2007 13:31:58 finally i use that one for PVP.. HIGH 6x Heavy Missile Launcher II 1x Small Nosferatu II MEDIUM 1x Warp Disruptor II 1x Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I 1x Pith X-Type Large Shield Booster 1x Photon Scattering Field II 1x Invulnerability Field II LOW 2x Power Diagnostic System II 2x Ballistic Control System II 1x Damage Control II Rigs : Core Defence Capacitor Sa*uard I \ Core Defence Capacitor Sa*uard I Drone Bay: 5x Hornet EC-300 or 5x Hodgobolin II 6357 shield, 18.98/s, E/T/K/Ex=76/85/82/81 It's not the best fitting for solo PVP, but i think it doesnt really can be better.. All Other Command ships are better for PVP I will train up also Gallente Cruiser to lvl5, so i can fly ASTARTE and i'm able to use my rails.. AFTRUNX ------------------------------ It's great to be a Caldari.... SIG<<===My Sig (grrr.. CCP)
Yves Trintaudon Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.22 20:48:00 - [55] Edited by: Yves Trintaudon on 22/06/2007 20:48:37 /bump This looks good for some pewpew enjoyment: 6x HML II 1x Med Nos II 2x Invulnerability Field II 1x Photon Scattering Field II 1x Lg Shield Booster II 1x Warp Disruptor II 2x Ballistic Control II 2x PDS II 1x DCU II 2x CCC I or maybe 1x CCC I 1x Anti-EM I Critiques? Looking also at a passive approach, swap out EM field and booster for two LSE II, and DCU for another PDS probably, maybe BCU for PDS, dunno. Edit: lol @ filter cutting out the middle of Sa***uard ^^
Thomas Maleficus Perkone	Posted - 2007.06.26 14:10:00 - [56] Originally by: Lilith Thy'nin Edited by: Lilith Thy''nin on 15/02/2007 03:49:47 i lol at you all for "DREAM" NH fittings i think this kinda hands it to you all http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9814/20070205142110po2.jpg If your going to photoshop.. you might wanna spell EstamEl's right :P
Lesican Minmatar Black Lance NBSI Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.28 11:42:00 - [57] Originally by: Thomas Maleficus Originally by: Lilith Thy'nin Edited by: Lilith Thy''nin on 15/02/2007 03:49:47 i lol at you all for "DREAM" NH fittings i think this kinda hands it to you all http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9814/20070205142110po2.jpg If your going to photoshop.. you might wanna spell EstamEl's right :P That made me laugh, wonder why you'd photoshop such and expensive mod then fit an E50 Nos. Good eyes Thomas
Aioa Planetary Assault Systems	Posted - 2007.06.28 12:45:00 - [58] Originally by: Thomas Maleficus If your going to photoshop.. you might wanna spell EstamEl's right :P Lol...cheered me up. Just how small does your RL-peen have to be to make it necessary for you to falsify your E-peen like this?
Rib0 coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.06.28 12:47:00 - [59] Originally by: Thomas Maleficus Originally by: Lilith Thy'nin Edited by: Lilith Thy''nin on 15/02/2007 03:49:47 i lol at you all for "DREAM" NH fittings i think this kinda hands it to you all http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9814/20070205142110po2.jpg If your going to photoshop.. you might wanna spell EstamEl's right :P haha i was reading through to see if anyone else noticed, then i was gonna flame him for having 4x invuln fields
Thomas Maleficus Perkone	Posted - 2007.06.30 11:28:00 - [60] Hes also missed "Ballistic" from one of his BCU's lol.. ___ Racketeers are recruiting! Join "Racketeers" channel ingame for info!
E Vile	Posted - 2007.06.30 11:57:00 - [61] Originally by: MuffinsRevenger Originally by: xHalcyonx My dream Nighthawk setup: Haklyjon fails! This is how you do it! ...Allthough my HML ROF is actually down to 5.33 now :D runs forever, tanks annything ^_^ Very nice, but I would want to cry if I lost that ship in pvp. "The key to immortality is to first live a life worth remembering."
Geordi Pitch Black Incorporated	Posted - 2007.07.27 12:25:00 - [62] This tank will run forever, with Energy Systems Operation 5 & Energy Management 4, cap will hold at around 55%. Resists are: (with EM compensation lvl 3) EM = 73% Explosive = 73% Kinetic = 75% Thermal = 80% Hi-Slots: 6 x Heavy Missile Launcher II 1 x Medium Nos II Med-Slots: 1 x Dread Guristas Magnetic Scattering Amplifier 2 x Shield Boost Amplifier II 2 x Pithi A-Type Small Shield Booster Low-Slots: 1 x Damage Control II 2 x Power Diagnostic System II 2 x Ballistic Control System II Rigs: Bay Loading Accelerator I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcement I
Ewa Quillam Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.27 13:06:00 - [63] Originally by: Hephaesteus lvl 4's are a breeze with a Nighthawk 6 Heavy missle launchers T2 1 Med nos T2 1 Large shield booster 4 active hardeners T2 2 Pdu T2 3 Ballistic Controls T2 and drones or though I have never needed to use them in this ship. Actually, they are not, because the NH has crappy targeting range. They go quicker in a cerb and a lot more quicker in cruise raven with specific hardeners.
Rico Carnage	Posted - 2007.08.13 20:58:00 - [64] I see alot of people putting on tuns of shield extenders to get tuns of shields in hopes of staying alive longer. Why not just forget haveing 20-30k of shields with ok resistances, and have like 7k of shields that have insane resistances. This inturn makes any dmg done to you minor and you dont have to have tons of shields. For instance I have 81/81/90/88, with that kind of resistance you dont need 20k of shields and i have yet to find (not to say there isn't one) a HAC BS or another CS that can break that tank.
Ben Booley Mutually Assured Distraction Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.13 22:54:00 - [65] Originally by: Rico Carnage I see alot of people putting on tuns of shield extenders to get tuns of shields in hopes of staying alive longer. Why not just forget haveing 20-30k of shields with ok resistances, and have like 7k of shields that have insane resistances. This inturn makes any dmg done to you minor and you dont have to have tons of shields. For instance I have 81/81/90/88, with that kind of resistance you dont need 20k of shields and i have yet to find (not to say there isn't one) a HAC BS or another CS that can break that tank. They do that because as they increase the amount of shields, the recharge time stays the same, making their shields recharge faster. High recharge + good resists > slow recharge + great resists.
Ferocious FeAr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.14 02:32:00 - [66] Originally by: Ben Booley Originally by: Rico Carnage I see alot of people putting on tuns of shield extenders to get tuns of shields in hopes of staying alive longer. Why not just forget haveing 20-30k of shields with ok resistances, and have like 7k of shields that have insane resistances. This inturn makes any dmg done to you minor and you dont have to have tons of shields. For instance I have 81/81/90/88, with that kind of resistance you dont need 20k of shields and i have yet to find (not to say there isn't one) a HAC BS or another CS that can break that tank. They do that because as they increase the amount of shields, the recharge time stays the same, making their shields recharge faster. High recharge + good resists > slow recharge + great resists. Wrong. The only time I would suggest using a passive tank is on a fleet vulture. Why would anyway want to lower their DPS is beyond me. You can tank equally as good or even better with an active tank. Don't hate me, learn to love me
Bentula	Posted - 2007.08.14 09:19:00 - [67] Originally by: Ferocious FeAr Wrong. The only time I would suggest using a passive tank is on a fleet vulture. Why would anyway want to lower their DPS is beyond me. You can tank equally as good or even better with an active tank. My setup: High: 6xHM II Med: 2xLSE II 2xInvul 1xEM Low: 3xBCU II 2xSPR II Rigs: 2xCore Defence field purger Res: EM/THERM/KIN/EXP 79.3%/88.4%/85.4%/84.5% 12.5k HP shields, 350 sec recharge, 90hp/s peak recharge Please give me your active setup that does more DPS and tanks equally good or even better. Btw the above setup is sustained.
port22 Royal Crimson Lancers	Posted - 2007.08.14 10:03:00 - [68] Originally by: Bentula Originally by: Ferocious FeAr Wrong. The only time I would suggest using a passive tank is on a fleet vulture. Why would anyway want to lower their DPS is beyond me. You can tank equally as good or even better with an active tank. My setup: High: 6xHM II Med: 2xLSE II 2xInvul 1xEM Low: 3xBCU II 2xSPR II Rigs: 2xCore Defence field purger Res: EM/THERM/KIN/EXP 79.3%/88.4%/85.4%/84.5% 12.5k HP shields, 350 sec recharge, 90hp/s peak recharge Please give me your active setup that does more DPS and tanks equally good or even better. Btw the above setup is sustained. Your setup is not passive as it has invuln fields. For a true passive tank there cannot be an active module on your tank. If you are nossed your tank will fail. I personally fly a passive tank vulture and it will tank a full gank astarte (14x dmg mod) with ease. If I am nossed my tank remains the same. To previous poster, these are not dps ships, why treat them as such? Originally by: Temp Boi Port FTMFW Period. 'We dont fight fair' -Fall Out Boy
Aramendel Amarr Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.08.14 10:23:00 - [69] Originally by: port22 Your setup is not passive as it has invuln fields. For a true passive tank there cannot be an active module on your tank. If you are nossed your tank will fail. Won't be an issue with the nos changes - and I doubt that neuts will be as common. Also, a pure active shield booster tank will also fail when being nossed ATM, so thats hardly an unique weakness.
Bentula	Posted - 2007.08.14 13:02:00 - [70] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: port22 Your setup is not passive as it has invuln fields. For a true passive tank there cannot be an active module on your tank. If you are nossed your tank will fail. Won't be an issue with the nos changes - and I doubt that neuts will be as common. Also, a pure active shield booster tank will also fail when being nossed ATM, so thats hardly an unique weakness. Thats exactly the reason i use it. I dont use it to gain nos immunity but instead because it is superior in every way to a active tank unless you spend billions on faction stuff, and even while providing less protection vs nos/neut than a true passive tank its still way better than a booster tank. Your not going to have higher resistances in a active tank if you want to fit booster + injector/amplifier. Your also not going to have more BCUs, since fitting a fourth is moot anyway. So i fail to see any reason to fit a active tank on this ship, the semi passive one is simply better in almost any situation.
Drezzster Infestation.	Posted - 2007.09.01 23:22:00 - [71] So what makes "any other command ship" better than the NH in pvp? Sure there is the old caldari med slot tackling problem but that is not an issue in gangs. I think the fact that unlike other races you can easily fit a tank and gank outweighs that problem. Also missiles have the bonus of always hitting for full damage against larger targets which most ships that are a threat to you will be. On top of that you dont need to worry about optimal, get webbed? no problemo. And I really don't see why delayed damage is a problem, they should be scrambled.
Allestin Villimar	Posted - 2007.09.15 19:36:00 - [72] This is the set up I'm looking at: High: 6x T2 Heavy Launchers, 1x Drone Link Augmentor Med : 1x CN/DG Invuln Field, 2x passive CN/DG EM resists, 2x T2 LSE Low : 1x T2 BCU, 4x T2 SPR Rigs: 2x Core Defence Purger Gives 80% or more to every resist, a launcher rate of around 5.5, and a regen of around 150. With better implants you can get better numbers. If you have maxed out shield compensation skills having the invuln field off only gives a net loss of about 10% to each resist. If you just HAVE to have the maximum tank you can pull a 200 point regen by swapping out the BCU. 1000 passively tankable DPS. Mmm, tasty.
Ferocious FeAr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.15 20:27:00 - [73] Originally by: Allestin Villimar This is the set up I'm looking at: High: 6x T2 Heavy Launchers, 1x Drone Link Augmentor Med : 1x CN/DG Invuln Field, 2x passive CN/DG EM resists, 2x T2 LSE Low : 1x T2 BCU, 4x T2 SPR Rigs: 2x Core Defence Purger Gives 80% or more to every resist, a launcher rate of around 5.5, and a regen of around 150. With better implants you can get better numbers. If you have maxed out shield compensation skills having the invuln field off only gives a net loss of about 10% to each resist. If you just HAVE to have the maximum tank you can pull a 200 point regen by swapping out the BCU. 1000 passively tankable DPS. Mmm, tasty. Get rid of the drone link. Not needed. Waste of mid slot using 2 passive em. Don't use a passive setup!! Everytime I see a passive nighthawk setup it makes me cringe, they are so ineffective compared to the active. If you want to fly a ship that is made for passive tanks, get in a drake, plus its cheaper (I dislike passive tanks ). Don't hate me, learn to love me
Allestin Villimar	Posted - 2007.09.15 22:36:00 - [74] Edited by: Allestin Villimar on 15/09/2007 22:43:53 Having 65 km drone range isn't useless, it just isn't as good as things that can go there. But I don't have the powergrid to fit a gang assist module, so that pretty much leaves a drone link augmentor or a cloaking device. Having the EMs passively means that I'm virtually immune to neutralizers and nosferatu. I can't do a passive tank and run multiple active hardeners, the cap regen just isn't there. And show me an active tank that can handle 1000 DPS to of any type and be cap stable, much less doing it while being neutralized or drained. Edit: Also, this will deal more damage than a drake due to the rof bonus and handle more damage while having a smaller signature radius.
Ferocious FeAr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.16 00:37:00 - [75] Edited by: Ferocious FeAr on 16/09/2007 00:37:50 Originally by: Allestin Villimar Edited by: Allestin Villimar on 16/09/2007 00:17:14 Edited by: Allestin Villimar on 16/09/2007 00:00:05 Edited by: Allestin Villimar on 15/09/2007 22:43:53 Having 65 km drone range isn't useless, it just isn't as good as things that can go there. But I don't have the powergrid to fit a gang assist module, so that pretty much leaves a drone link augmentor or a cloaking device. Having the EMs passively means that I'm virtually immune to neutralizers and nosferatu. I can't do a passive tank and run multiple active hardeners, the cap regen just isn't there. And show me an active tank that can handle 1000 DPS to of any type and be cap stable, much less doing it while being neutralized or drained. Edit: Also, this will deal more damage than a drake due to the rof bonus and handle more damage while having a smaller signature radius. Edit #2: Ok, looking at 1 DG/CN invuln and 1 DG/CN active EM field. Looks like you're still talking 80% or higher to everything and you can fit a t2 shield recharger, bringing the tank up to about 200 regen / s with max skills and 5% implants. If you swap out 1 BCU for another SPR, you can get up to about 250, but you are no longer cap stable. Takes around 15 minutes to drain that much cap, but it makes you a lot more vulnerable to nos/neut boats. So a slightly stronger tank with nos weakness or a slightly weaker tank that has no real weakness. Take your pick. Edit #3: By the way, a t2 version of the 1st set up is virtually the same, the only resist below 80% is explosive at 79%. So it may not be worth it to you to get a 300 million invulnerability field for a few more % resists. A t2 version of the 2nd one has EM at 75% as well, though with the added regen you're still at a better tankable DPS. The nighthawk I fly tanks 1000 dps (even more depending on what damage type). All you need is an injector to sustain damage. Passive setups are worthless in gang, they don't provide as much firepower. You are shortchanging your ship bonus by fitting it passive. I can sit here all day and debate how active is better but I don't think I would change your mind. Either way, its your style, I just feel you aren't using it to its full capabilities. Don't hate me, learn to love me
Allestin Villimar	Posted - 2007.09.16 02:30:00 - [76] Then let's see this amazing set up you have. I've seen you do nothing but slam other people's set ups for a variety of reasons without providing anything of your own. You can tank 1000 DPS until you run out of cap injectors. And to get 200 shield restored per second you must be running some pretty nice faction mods or an XL t2 booster + t2 amp, which will drain your cap faster than you can blink. So you have an extremely expensive tank that can handle 1000 DPS for a very limited time with slightly more damage and a cargo hold that's filled with cap injectors or an unlimited tank that can handle more than 1000 DPS with a little less dps and is virtually immune to energy drain of any sort. I really don't see what your gang would need you for in a command ship that another ship couldn't do better except for perhaps the assistance modules (where you'd want a vulture anyway), and I could fit those with minimal loss to my tank if I really wanted to. So by all means tell us of this superior active set up. If you're tackling you'd need a MWD, but you said that was stupid earlier, and interceptors do it so much better. If you're sensor boosting, remote shield/armor repping, or using EW there are other ships that do it far better. And if you're doing damage 2 more BCUs aren't going to increase your dps that much over my set up.
SpinkTon Caldari Stronghold corp	Posted - 2007.09.16 11:37:00 - [77] Originally by: Ferocious FeAr I can sit here all day and debate how active is better but I don't think I would change your mind. Either way, its your style, I just feel you aren't using it to its full capabilities.[/quote Go ahead change our minds, lots of ppl reading this.
Big Al Quha Industries Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2007.09.16 15:52:00 - [78] Edited by: Big Al on 16/09/2007 15:54:39 High: 6x DG/CN Heavy Missile Launchers 1x Small tractor Beam Mid: 2x Shield Booster Amp II 1x Pithum A-type Medium Shield Booster 2x DG/CN Invulns Low: 4x DG/CN BCU 1x PDU II Rigs: 2x CCC I Setup in action, AE bonus room. To potential flamers: 4th bcu adds 40dps, setup permaruns and tanks any level 4, you don't need more regen. This is a PVE only (duh) setup.
Aramendel Amarr Coreli Corporation Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.09.16 16:21:00 - [79] Originally by: Ferocious FeAr I can sit here all day and debate how active is better but I don't think I would change your mind. Either way, its your style, I just feel you aren't using it to its full capabilities. All people request is for you to post a setup which is superior to a passive one. YOu calim passive tanking is ineffective, so that should be rather easy, shouldn't it? Or in other words: proof or shut up. I've done quite a bit of tinkering around with setups and come to the conclusion, no, you cannot get a more effective active setup UNLESS you are spending tons of isk for faction mods or UNLESS you are not running a sustainable setup. With 2 SPR2, 2 LSE2 and 2 t1 purgers you get 80 shield/sec recharge. And 3 active harderners. Sustainable. Which active setup can get an sustainable 80 shield/sec regeneration rate with 2 med and 2 low slots used? A pithum a-type medium booster + SBA2 can get 103 regen and is sustainable with only 1 PDU2, but thats 2 bil down the drain. A gist c-type large booster + SBA2 gives you 91 regen and is sustainable with 2 PDU2 and will cost you 500 mil. Or crystal sets (and spending 0.5-2 bil for them and gimping your skill training speed).
Allestin Villimar	Posted - 2007.09.16 17:38:00 - [80] Originally by: Big Al Edited by: Big Al on 16/09/2007 15:54:39 High: 6x DG/CN Heavy Missile Launchers 1x Small tractor Beam Mid: 2x Shield Booster Amp II 1x Pithum A-type Medium Shield Booster 2x DG/CN Invulns Low: 4x DG/CN BCU 1x PDU II Rigs: 2x CCC I To potential flamers: 4th bcu adds 40dps, setup permaruns and tanks any level 4, you don't need more regen. This is a PVE only (duh) setup. Great. Spend a billion in faction mods for a worse tank and better damage.
Big Al Quha Industries Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2007.09.16 18:20:00 - [81] Originally by: Allestin Villimar Originally by: Big Al Edited by: Big Al on 16/09/2007 15:54:39 High: 6x DG/CN Heavy Missile Launchers 1x Small tractor Beam Mid: 2x Shield Booster Amp II 1x Pithum A-type Medium Shield Booster 2x DG/CN Invulns Low: 4x DG/CN BCU 1x PDU II Rigs: 2x CCC I To potential flamers: 4th bcu adds 40dps, setup permaruns and tanks any level 4, you don't need more regen. This is a PVE only (duh) setup. Great. Spend a billion in faction mods for a worse tank and better damage. Great, fly a passive tank that does the same dps as a cerb and does the exact same job. (oh yeah, and costs 3-4x as much too!)
Allestin Villimar	Posted - 2007.09.16 18:36:00 - [82] Your damage will be comparable with a cerberus' (due to cerb having the grid to support HAMs) while only being a marginally better tank, and your set up would push upwards of 1.2 billion. Insane cost doesn't seem to be an issue to you so I don't see why you brought it up.
Ferocious FeAr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.16 23:30:00 - [83] 6 - Heavy Missile Launcher II (Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile, Caldari Navy Havoc Heavy Missile) 1 - 150mm Railgun II (Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S) 1 - Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster 1 - Dark Blood Medium Capacitor Booster 1 - Dread Guristas Magnetic Scattering Amplifier (got em shield comp 5) 2 - Invunerability II 1 - Power Diagnostic System II 3 - Ballistic Control System II 1 - Damage Control II 2 - Core Defence Field Extender I 5 - Hobgoblin II Puts out 615 DPS (should be more soon Warhead Upgrades 5 finishing in a week). Can tank 1000 DPS. Don't hate me, learn to love me
Allestin Villimar	Posted - 2007.09.17 00:22:00 - [84] Edited by: Allestin Villimar on 17/09/2007 00:22:50 No it doesn't. A dread gurista large shield booster only gives 75 shield per second. Adding in the shield's regen wth L5 skills and 5% implants for recharge time, shield amount, and 5% booster amount gives you around 110 shields per second with around 81-86% to all resists (and EM is only around 78%). That means you can handle 650 for most damage types. So no, you're tank barely approaches half of what I put out there, and you're using pricy faction mods.
Ferocious FeAr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.17 00:51:00 - [85] I've tanked 2 absolutions before. I've also tanked a max neutron mega with berserker II's with max skills. I think I know what my ship can handle. Correction on DPS, its 617. Don't hate me, learn to love me
Allestin Villimar	Posted - 2007.09.17 01:05:00 - [86] Point being? Unless you know flat out what their exact set ups were, their exact skills, that they were always in optimal range, you weren't moving, etc. etc. etc., you have no way of knowing how much DPS they were dishing out. But thanks to extensive testing that's been done on shield tanking, I can tell you that you weren't tanking 1000 DPS unless they were dealing almost full thermal damage. I'm not saying you have a bad set up or that your set up is wrong, but when you come in and say that a passive tank isn't as good as an active, that's just wrong. Tankable DPS is tankable DPS. Both tank types have perks and flaws, and to me, I'd rather have the tank that's going to be tanking 1000 DPS whether it has cap or not. I lose less than 1 second of firing time by not having 2 more BCUs, and the damage bonuses get hit hard by by stacking, so your DPS is probably only about 20% greater than mine. Significant difference, yes, but in a gang, it's probably not going to change the time it takes to blow up an enemy by more than 3 seconds. Lasting long enough as bait against 4-5 ships while your gang warps in will probably make more of a difference.
Ferocious FeAr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.17 01:19:00 - [87] Originally by: Allestin Villimar Point being? Unless you know flat out what their exact set ups were, their exact skills, that they were always in optimal range, you weren't moving, etc. etc. etc., you have no way of knowing how much DPS they were dishing out. But thanks to extensive testing that's been done on shield tanking, I can tell you that you weren't tanking 1000 DPS unless they were dealing almost full thermal damage. I'm not saying you have a bad set up or that your set up is wrong, but when you come in and say that a passive tank isn't as good as an active, that's just wrong. Tankable DPS is tankable DPS. Both tank types have perks and flaws, and to me, I'd rather have the tank that's going to be tanking 1000 DPS whether it has cap or not. I lose less than 1 second of firing time by not having 2 more BCUs, and the damage bonuses get hit hard by by stacking, so your DPS is probably only about 20% greater than mine. Significant difference, yes, but in a gang, it's probably not going to change the time it takes to blow up an enemy by more than 3 seconds. Lasting long enough as bait against 4-5 ships while your gang warps in will probably make more of a difference. If that is the case, same can be about passive setups. Its a two way street here when you are talking about situational tanking. Listen, I'm not here to get you to change your mind. All I'm saying is, I've done both, active is far better on a nighthawk. Those who fit a passive tank are usually drake converted pilots. Those who aren't, well they just don't know how to fly a Nighthawk. I'm just speaking my mind here, you want honesty you get it, whether its blunt or not. Everyone that I know that pilots the Nighthawk doesn't fit it passive, maybe its just a different breed of players, who knows. Just wondering what is your DPS? Don't hate me, learn to love me
Allestin Villimar	Posted - 2007.09.17 01:48:00 - [88] I don't know the DPS. I can give you my rate of fire and skills, but I only know the testing done on shields. When you say "If that is the case, same can be about passive setups.", that's not true. Shields regen at a set curve, the resists you have are static - there is no changing factor in them. The changing factor is the amount of damage taken. You can sit there and tell me you do 650 DPS, but you won't do that much on smaller targets, you don't do that much if the target is moving, you don't do that much if the target has better resists, and you might not do anything if they outrun your missiles. I can always tank 1000 DPS. The only way that will change is if I start getting leadership or gang bonuses, in which case it only goes up. There is no way in game currently to make that decrease, and that's why I go for tank over gank. The only reason I can see to active tank would be to fit scramblers, webbers, or some other mid slot item. If you've got other ships doing that (and you should, command ships make poor tacklers), there's no reason not to fit a great tank.
Ferocious FeAr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.17 02:18:00 - [89] Originally by: Allestin Villimar I don't know the DPS. I can give you my rate of fire and skills, but I only know the testing done on shields. When you say "If that is the case, same can be about passive setups.", that's not true. Shields regen at a set curve, the resists you have are static - there is no changing factor in them. The changing factor is the amount of damage taken. You can sit there and tell me you do 650 DPS, but you won't do that much on smaller targets, you don't do that much if the target is moving, you don't do that much if the target has better resists, and you might not do anything if they outrun your missiles. I can always tank 1000 DPS. The only way that will change is if I start getting leadership or gang bonuses, in which case it only goes up. There is no way in game currently to make that decrease, and that's why I go for tank over gank. The only reason I can see to active tank would be to fit scramblers, webbers, or some other mid slot item. If you've got other ships doing that (and you should, command ships make poor tacklers), there's no reason not to fit a great tank. Never said you can't tank 1000DPS. The point I was trying to make is that you can tank the same with an active tank and do a ton more DPS. As for the '650 dps' comment. Same can be said about most ships. I would give you examples but you should know this by now, or so I hope. Don't hate me, learn to love me
Allestin Villimar	Posted - 2007.09.17 02:32:00 - [90] Yeah, but that's the thing, you can't tank 1000 dps. You're only barely able to tank half of it.
Ferocious FeAr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.17 02:38:00 - [91] Edited by: Ferocious FeAr on 17/09/2007 02:39:23 Right. You know what my ships can and can't do. Say, can you give me the lottery numbers for tomorrow? Don't hate me, learn to love me
Weeka Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2007.09.17 03:22:00 - [92] Originally by: Allestin Villimar Yeah, but that's the thing, you can't tank 1000 dps. You're only barely able to tank half of it. Don't forget that he possibly benefits from crystal implants when you do the maths. I myself have a passive tank, 82/87/88/91 resists, 3 BCS and a max recharge of 115 hp/s - so it's about the same as his active fitting - without crystals
Evenfall Phoenix The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.09.17 06:44:00 - [93] Why not run a semi-passive. You both bring up good points... well.. for people that have billions to toss around. fit 3 shield extenders, invul, active em hardener, 3 BCU and 2 PDS. Rig it up with a Core Defense and a missile damage, or range, or whatever missile rig you want. Running a cap injector on a Tech 2 Missile Spewing ship seems absolutely ********. So does putting tons of faction equipment on a ship that costs 170mil. Save those faction mods for a carrier where it makes more sense. In a fleet fight your tank is going to die faster than your shield reps can activate, that's where the passive is a bit better because of the additional shields, you get the time to warp out while the lag monster is eating you up. Another thing, if you fly a command ship you should be... oh I dunno... maybe doing some sort of leading. Even if it is just a squad commander. Which means you should have leadership skills in effect adding to your overall stats. You'd be a fool not to take advantage of the leadership skills. Hell you already had to get Leadership 5 to fly the thing. Just continue on. In the end I favor a semi passive. I have the shields to sustain damage, the resists and recharge to tank, as well as the ability to still kick out some very nice dps. This way you are not sacrificing one thing for the other, you are balanced. Besides, if you are soloing with this ship you're going to die anyway.
Aramendel Amarr Coreli Corporation Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.09.17 08:40:00 - [94] Originally by: Ferocious FeAr 6 - Heavy Missile Launcher II (Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile, Caldari Navy Havoc Heavy Missile) 1 - 150mm Railgun II (Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S) 1 - Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster 1 - Dark Blood Medium Capacitor Booster 1 - Dread Guristas Magnetic Scattering Amplifier (got em shield comp 5) 2 - Invunerability II 1 - Power Diagnostic System II 3 - Ballistic Control System II 1 - Damage Control II 2 - Core Defence Field Extender I 5 - Hobgoblin II Puts out 617 DPS (should be more soon Warhead Upgrades 5 finishing in a week). Can tank 1000 DPS. Uhh... if that is an example how active tanking is better on a NH it fails. DG LSB is 75 shield/sec and has 3 harderner slots which a passive setup will have as well. It has in addition a DC, though, which gives it compared to the passive setup a boost to 85 shield/sec. A passive setup with 2 purgers, 2 LSE2 and 2 SPR2 - leaving 3 meds free for harderners and 3 lows for BCUs just like in your setup - does 81 shield/sec. And, since it is a gang setup it should get at least 8% to the shield amount from gang skills which boosts its regeneration rate to 87 shield/sec.
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.17 09:09:00 - [95] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Ferocious FeAr 6 - Heavy Missile Launcher II (Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile, Caldari Navy Havoc Heavy Missile) 1 - 150mm Railgun II (Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S) 1 - Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster 1 - Dark Blood Medium Capacitor Booster 1 - Dread Guristas Magnetic Scattering Amplifier (got em shield comp 5) 2 - Invunerability II 1 - Power Diagnostic System II 3 - Ballistic Control System II 1 - Damage Control II 2 - Core Defence Field Extender I 5 - Hobgoblin II Puts out 617 DPS (should be more soon Warhead Upgrades 5 finishing in a week). Can tank 1000 DPS. Uhh... if that is an example how active tanking is better on a NH it fails. DG LSB is 75 shield/sec and has 3 harderner slots which a passive setup will have as well. It has in addition a DC, though, which gives it compared to the passive setup a boost to 85 shield/sec. A passive setup with 2 purgers, 2 LSE2 and 2 SPR2 - leaving 3 meds free for harderners and 3 lows for BCUs just like in your setup - does 81 shield/sec. And, since it is a gang setup it should get at least 8% to the shield amount from gang skills which boosts its regeneration rate to 87 shield/sec. But then again, you can use drugs and vulture gang and suddenly instead of 75 you have 120hp/s. Oh and there are crystals as well...
SpinkTon Caldari Stronghold corp	Posted - 2007.09.17 09:19:00 - [96] Edited by: SpinkTon on 17/09/2007 09:23:17 Edited by: SpinkTon on 17/09/2007 09:20:39 as far as Semipassive (w/active hardners) or active im torn between which one to use.. now i dont use faction stuff cause i pvp. I tried the active tank cause of the insanely large cargo bay. 700m3 fits a ton of cap charges Active (all t2) no faction 6 hml 1 SBA 1 LSB 1 med cap inj w/800's 1 em 1 inv 3 BCU 1 Damage C 1 PDU rigs: havent decided (opinions anyone?) SemiPassive (active hardners) (all t2) 6 hml 2 LSE 1 em 2 inv (or 1 inv and 1 shield recharger) havent decided whats better 3 BCU and 2 spr or 2 Bcu and 3 spr Rigs: 2 purgers now i cant decide what one is better thats my dilema Dps is about the same. With the active one with rof and damage rigs sure the dps is a bit higher but really who are we kidding. sure the nighthawk is a nice ship but really wasnt designed to be a dps machine. so really id take a greater tank than a bit more dps i guess again depending on the situation ofc
Lars Lodar Caldari Astrodynamic Innovations	Posted - 2007.09.17 09:41:00 - [97] I'd go with the passive setup since you get more HP, about the same regen, and you don't have to worry about cap. Also, a Nighthawk with 3 Ballistic Control Systems has the same DPS of a Cruise Missile Raven but it can kill smaller enemies way faster.
Aramendel Amarr Coreli Corporation Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.09.17 10:16:00 - [98] Originally by: LUKEC But then again, you can use drugs and vulture gang and suddenly instead of 75 you have 120hp/s. Oh and there are crystals as well... And there are gist and pithum boosters, too. But that is all if, if, if. If you have drugs (and are in 0.0), and if you have a vulture with gangmods (in which case you could as well have a logistic ship which is for a gang IMO more effective), if you spend 500mil+ on faction mods.
Allestin Villimar	Posted - 2007.09.17 12:43:00 - [99] Originally by: Ferocious FeAr Edited by: Ferocious FeAr on 17/09/2007 02:39:23 Right. You know what my ships can and can't do. In this case, yes. I do. If someone comes up and does 1000 kinetic damage to that tank, you'll die. Because shields in this game are set numbers that don't change. I think you're seeing 1000 dps that they're capable of dishing out given perfect conditions, but you never get perfect conditions in this game.
alesta Legions of the Praetorian	Posted - 2007.09.17 13:45:00 - [100] 6x navy heavy launcher II ,TB 1 pith x type photon, 2x navy invuln, 2x large shield extender II 3x navy bcu, 2x spr II 2x core defence field purger works wonders NeoTech Incorporated
Ferocious FeAr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.17 17:29:00 - [101] Edited by: Ferocious FeAr on 17/09/2007 17:35:05 Originally by: Allestin Villimar Originally by: Ferocious FeAr Edited by: Ferocious FeAr on 17/09/2007 02:39:23 Right. You know what my ships can and can't do. In this case, yes. I do. If someone comes up and does 1000 kinetic damage to that tank, you'll die. Because shields in this game are set numbers that don't change. I think you're seeing 1000 dps that they're capable of dishing out given perfect conditions, but you never get perfect conditions in this game. I've tested my tank throughly. Again, I will tell you that you are wrong. I have a crystals set, forgot to mention that. As for the MM guy complaining about faction stuff being expensive and not worth it. Those items aren't that expensive. In fact I've ran bait plenty times up north (previous contract), never had a gang break my tank once. You guys can sit here all day and say how the passive Nighthawk is better. We all know that you can get a incredibly impressive tank on the drake (passive), you would also be spending A LOT less ISK. You want to run passive, fly a vulture or a drake. My mind is setup on the Nighthawk being an active tank. I've ran both setups. I think I know which is more effective. Say Allestin, what kind of experience do you have with the Nighthawk? Seeing how you are a 2007 player I can't see how your setup would be even remotely effective. You shouldn't even be thinking about command ships at your characters age. You should still be in the Drake honing your support and missile skills. There seems to be a boatload of 'expert critics' here with stats out the yingyang. Stats can only go so far, its all situational in game. Not saying passive tanks don't work. I'm claiming that active tanks are just as good, most of the times better on the Nighthawk. I swear I feel like I'm rehashing the same amount of information every time I reply. Obviously you guys aren't going to be sold on active tanks (could care less if you were or weren't), why would you? You are spoiled sitting and just having to press f1-f6 and having no micromanagement issues whatsoever. I call it lazy pvp. Leave the passive tanks to the people who undock from Kisogo (did I mention I hate passive tanks?). Don't hate me, learn to love me
Gypsio III Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.17 17:57:00 - [102] Personally, I prefer an active setup on the Drake. After fitting HAMs and BCS you don't really have the PG for a useful passive setup. When I eventually get a NH I imagine I'll try to fit it similarly...
Ferocious FeAr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.17 18:17:00 - [103] Edited by: Ferocious FeAr on 17/09/2007 18:18:45 Yeah same here, if I were to fly a drake (which I wouldn't) I would fly it active. Same with the vulture. I just wish heavy assault missiles powergrid requirements were a bit more favorable. I love my heavy missiles though, got the spec to 5. It has served me well so far. Don't hate me, learn to love me
Evenfall Phoenix The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.09.17 18:44:00 - [104] Originally by: Ferocious FeAr Edited by: Ferocious FeAr on 17/09/2007 17:35:05 Originally by: Allestin Villimar Originally by: Ferocious FeAr Edited by: Ferocious FeAr on 17/09/2007 02:39:23 Right. You know what my ships can and can't do. In this case, yes. I do. If someone comes up and does 1000 kinetic damage to that tank, you'll die. Because shields in this game are set numbers that don't change. I think you're seeing 1000 dps that they're capable of dishing out given perfect conditions, but you never get perfect conditions in this game. I've tested my tank throughly. Again, I will tell you that you are wrong. I have a crystals set, forgot to mention that. As for the MM guy complaining about faction stuff being expensive and not worth it. Those items aren't that expensive. In fact I've ran bait plenty times up north (previous contract), never had a gang break my tank once. Don't kid yourself. We all know about that previous contract, and who you fought. In fleet battle today your so called tank is worthless. Second, those items do cost. On top of which you are probably running crystals, as well as drugs. You know the rest of the world doesn't have nice cushy contracts that give us enough money to fit everything and be able to lose everything without a worry. That is the real difference here. If you have the money to just toss around, sure, an active tank like his would work very well. However, not everyone can do that. For those of us that don't have the resources the passive tank ensures that you can A: Keep your 170mil ship alive and B: Still be useful in a gang fight. Again need I say that in a command ship you should have gang skills. Which means you should be giving bonuses to your gang, and those bonuses are what can give you a fairly significant edge over your opponent. Therefore it is your duty to stay alive, and your duty to keep the gang in order. The passive setup gives you the best ability to do this.
Ferocious FeAr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.17 18:48:00 - [105] Edited by: Ferocious FeAr on 17/09/2007 18:49:15 I don't believe I ever mentioned using drugs. We aren't taking about fleet setups, wake up and smell the coffee. Don't hate me, learn to love me
Eardianm Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.17 18:53:00 - [106] Edited by: Eardianm on 17/09/2007 18:55:58 Edited by: Eardianm on 17/09/2007 18:55:28 I'm personally saving up for a faction NH myself atm. That aside, Ferocious FeAr, either you're adding factors not mentioned in your setup (gang mods, drugs), or you're letting anecdotal evidence blind your judgment. You did mention a crystal set, but I'm not sure if that was listed in your setup's numbers. Both raw tanking numbers and dps have been shown in this post to be close enough to equal to be a non-factor(using your active setup versus the 2 LSE, 2 SPR, 2 purger rig passive). Both have 3 BCUs, and according to the numbers listed, are repping in the mid 80 shield per second with equal resists. You'll have more time in structure due to DCU II, and a better cap capability, albeit nothing to use it on. The passive will benefit from better alpha protection. If you're adding in crystals, shield gang mods, and or drugs, then yes, all those push the balance in favor of the active setup. Far in favor when all those are added in. I've no doubt that your NH has performed well for you. But the numbers don't lie. You would have performed just as well in those situations in a passive NH, as unsexy an option as it is currently, assuming none of the unmentioned factors were actually in place. If you were high on drugs and had a vulture in system, then yes, your active tank probably survived where a passive would have been dropped edit and now I see no drugs. shield gang mods usually present then for your setup? I am aiming for active because the high end potential is huge, using faction gear. With a pith x large, DG amp, DB cap booster, and Gist/Pith em + DG invul field, I can still fit 3 bcus and contribute some dps. To match that passively, I'd have to sacrifice the entire fit to it, losing those BCUs to SPRs, and deal with the annoyance of cap that takes 10 years to recharge. Now, give us some more PG so I can fit that gang mod, and we can push it more in favor of your active fit, since the passive version would have cap issues keeping it running --------------
Ferocious FeAr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.17 18:59:00 - [107] Edited by: Ferocious FeAr on 17/09/2007 18:59:11 Yeah I probably should have included the crystal set along with gang bonuses on the initial post. <3 MC bonuses! Don't hate me, learn to love me
Eardianm Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.17 19:04:00 - [108] Originally by: Ferocious FeAr Edited by: Ferocious FeAr on 17/09/2007 18:59:11 Yeah I probably should have included the crystal set along with gang bonuses on the initial post. <3 MC bonuses! There we go In that situation, active ftw. Maybe I'll let Gyp spend the isk on a sexy active NH and I'll put mine towards my Vulture to boost him. --------------
Klavayne Free Mercenaries Union FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.17 19:54:00 - [109] Edited by: Klavayne on 17/09/2007 19:55:52 I've flown a nighthawk for a while and have used both active and passive setups. Both obviously have their benefits and downfalls so theres no point arguing that ones is "better" than the other, its down to a preference. I will say however, that had i the isk to start using a NH in pvp i would go with an active setup. I made two similar fittings on EFT to compare them. Active: 6x Heavy Missile Launcher Large T2 Shield Booster T2 Shield Boost Amp Medium Cap booster (w/800s) T2 Invulnerability Field T2 EM Hardener 3x T2 BCUs T2 DCU Beta PDS (to fit CPU-wise) Resists Are: EM Exp Kin Therm 78 81.5 83 86 'Defense Efficiency' = 538 - maintainable as long as cap boosters last. Passive: 6x Heavy Missile Launcher 2x Large T2 Shield Extender 2x Invulnerability Fields 1x T2 EM Hardener 3x T2 BCUs 2x T2 SPRs 2x Shield Recharge Rigs Resists Are: EM Exp Kin Therm 79 84.5 85.4 88.4 'Defense Efficiency' of 467 - cap stable. Both of these setups do an identical 485dps with my skills using CN Scourge and 5 T2 Hobgoblins. My shield operations skill is only at level 4, but even that would not make up the difference in tanks. These also do not take into account any implants whether standard passive ones or crystals. The obvious difference between the two is also that the passive one requires rigs to get anywhere near the active tank. To match the damage of an active setup, passive setups have weaker tanks. Not only that, with an active tank you can keep putting money in to improve it, the more isk you have the better it gets. With passive tanks there is always a limit as to how good it can be while maintaining a decent amount of damage. Edit: Forgot to mention any improvement which could be gained from gang skills/links. More specifically, that the shield amount bonus can easily be matched by the gang modules for boosters.
Aramendel Amarr Coreli Corporation Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.09.17 20:30:00 - [110] Originally by: Ferocious FeAr You guys can sit here all day and say how the passive Nighthawk is better. We all know that you can get a incredibly impressive tank on the drake (passive), you would also be spending A LOT less ISK. You want to run passive, fly a vulture or a drake. My mind is setup on the Nighthawk being an active tank. I've ran both setups. I think I know which is more effective. Passive is more effective if you are on the t2 lvl. No ifs and buts there really. Cold hard fact. Active is more effective if you are on the faction lvl (this includes implants). But that is not that surprising considering there are no faction mods which help passive tanking.
Klavayne Free Mercenaries Union FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.17 20:39:00 - [111] Originally by: Aramendel Passive is more effective if you are on the t2 lvl. No ifs and buts there really. Cold hard fact. Hardly a cold hard fact. Yes, purely using t2 mods and no implants passive tanks are the best. But using equal slots for tanking, it is by no means definately more effective.
Ferocious FeAr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.17 20:43:00 - [112] I wouldn't say "more effective" because now you are putting DPS into the picture amoung other things. Passive tanks are good for tanking, that is about it. You're quite flexible with active tanks, you have room to accomplish more. Don't hate me, learn to love me
Allestin Villimar	Posted - 2007.09.18 01:43:00 - [113] Originally by: Ferocious FeAr Edited by: Ferocious FeAr on 17/09/2007 20:46:35 I wouldn't say "more effective" because now you are putting DPS into the picture amoung other things. Passive tanks are good for tanking, that is about it. Active tanks are a lot more flexible, you have room to accomplish more. Again, how is your set up "more flexible". What are you doing (aside from slightly more damage) that's any different from passive set ups? Does damage = flexibility all of a sudden? I would think the ship that was immune to capacitor drain and had a larger buffer to eat through would be more flexible than the one who's only good for more damage (Which other ships do far better). The only way I can see your active set up as being more flexible is that you always have the same hits restored, so at very low and very high shield health they're slightly better. Of course, letting up on a passive tank for even a brief while (say to reload) and you have to eat through a huge buffer again, where as you won't have nearly as much health restored in the interim. Drakes actually make worse passive tanks because they lack the innate resists. With the rof bonus on nighthawks, you do more damage as well. Yes, drakes can get higher regen per second, but their resists aren't nearly as good. (Unless you're going to dump 1.2 bil in t2 rigs, then the drake would be a better tank) You evidently didn't read my post critiquing your tank, either. I included 5% shield hp, 5% shield recharge, and 5% shield booster amount for implants. No gang modules or bonuses, but I really doubt you'd ever be able to tank 1000 EM/Kinetic damage with that set up unless you were ganged with a L5 titan pilot or something similar. Even then, it's not like those bonuses don't help a passive tank even more. 10% shield bonus for 16k shields as opposed to a 10% shield bonus for 13k shields. Shield harmonizing modules will give more resists since mine are lower, making them more useful to me. So far in this thread all you've done is point to anecdotal evidence and continually introduce more stuff that makes your tank better, and it still doesn't do what you said it could. You can tank 3 ships? Great, were you moving? Then their DPS isn't at optimal. Were they in optimal range the entire time? Their dps drops even more. Were they using large guns? Another dps drop. Did they have maxed out skills? Suddenly it doesn't seem very likely you know the exact dps you were tanking.
Aramendel Amarr Coreli Corporation Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.09.18 07:55:00 - [114] Edited by: Aramendel on 18/09/2007 07:55:25 Originally by: Klavayne Hardly a cold hard fact. Yes, purely using t2 mods and no implants passive tanks are the best. But using equal slots for tanking, it is by no means definately more effective. Originally by: Ferocious FeAr I wouldn't say "more effective" because now you are putting DPS into the picture amoung other things. Passive tanks are good for tanking, that is about it. Active tanks are a lot more flexible, you have room to accomplish more. You can do dps and passive tank without problems. Who forces you to fit 5 SPR2s? Noone. You need (need need need) FACTION equipment (including implants, nonfaction implants do not halp active tanks more than passive tanks, to the contrary) to get a superior active tank. No ifs or buts. I showed that already. Copy-paste: With 2 SPR2, 2 LSE2 and 2 t1 purgers you get 80 shield/sec recharge. And 3 active harderners. Sustainable. Which active setup can get an sustainable 80 shield/sec regeneration rate with 2 med and 2 low slots used? A pithum a-type medium booster + SBA2 can get 103 regen and is sustainable with only 1 PDU2, but thats 2 bil down the drain. A gist c-type large booster + SBA2 gives you 91 regen and is sustainable with 2 PDU2 and will cost you 500 mil. Or crystal sets (and spending 0.5-2 bil for them and gimping your skill training speed). If you go unsustainable you could use a pith x-type large shield booster, fit 2 boost cycle time rigs and a SBA2 and get almost 200 shield/sec and are able to sustain it with 1 med cap booster with 800 charges. Decent for PvP I guess..but again also a 750mil investment. A t2 large shield booster will give you 81 shield/sec, about the same as the passive setup. Cap-booster dependant and with a far smaller HP buffer. And only 2 med slots left for harderners compared to 3 with the passive setup. 2 more low slots left though. Feel free to give me any t2 setup which is more effective and has room for 3 BCUs without using faction stuff. As far as I can see there is none.
SpinkTon Caldari Stronghold corp	Posted - 2007.09.18 09:23:00 - [115] with a large shield booster 2 a shield amp 2 and a cap injuector w/800's 1 em t2 1 inv t2 and a damage controll (rocks for PVP) the resists are pretty descent, em is like 78.?% and the rest over 80 % Now maybe my math here is wrong but 240 shields / 4 seconds on the booster x 1.36 for the boost amp is 326 shields per 4 seconds 81.50 shields per second there plus the measly 15ish shields per second that we get on our passive regen 96.5 shields per second and you have your low slots to do what you want to wiht plus you dont have to put purgers in the rig slots.. maybe my math may be wrong but i will be doing more testing to see what one i prefer.
Klavayne Free Mercenaries Union FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.18 10:17:00 - [116] Aramandel, youve pretty much pointed out that they are pretty equal. Aside from the fact that one requires cap boosters and one requires rigs with each improvable quite easily. So again, its down to preference as to which people want to fly. Your preference is for passive which is fair enough, that doesnt mean that people who choose active are "wrong".
Aramendel Amarr Coreli Corporation Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.09.18 10:38:00 - [117] They are wrong if they claim that they are superior. Which they aren't. You need faction equipment to achieve that.
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.18 11:19:00 - [118] Edited by: LUKEC on 18/09/2007 11:20:08 Originally by: Aramendel They are wrong if they claim that they are superior. Which they aren't. You need faction equipment to achieve that. And warping back to fight with 1/3 shield is very bright. Active tanks have some advantages that can't exactly be included in quickfit. Arguing about pure numbers ... t2 with gang is better than passive, t2 with drugs is better than passive. What does passive have again? Apart from 2x bigger ship and more buffer that won't really save you anymore?
Allestin Villimar	Posted - 2007.09.18 13:01:00 - [119] Ok, with no rigs the 2nd set up I posted still gets 130 shields per second at max regen, which is still 15/s better than what fear posted. Only leaves 2 slots for resists but with maxed EM shield comp and a DG invuln you can still pull almost 75% to em and the others at 80%+. But if you fitted a launcher rig and a missile damage rig your damage would be almost identical to his active set up and still pull more tanking. So: 6x T2 Heavies, 1x whatever fits 2x LSE T2, 1x Shield Recharger T2, 1x Dread Guristas Invuln, 1x Dread Guristas Magnetic Scattering Amplifier 4x Shield Power Relay T2, 1x Ballistic Control Unit T2 Rigs: Warhead Calefaction Catalyst, Bay Loading Accelerator With rapid launch 5, heavy missile spec at 4, command ships 5, and a 5% implant, you wind up with about a 4.85 second rate of fire, EM resist around 74.8%, and other resists are above 80%. Peak shield regen is around 130/s. This has the added benefit of not using shield rigs, so your signature radius is only aboout 330 or so.
Jack Auger	Posted - 2007.09.20 16:33:00 - [120] I really like Allestin's style and analysis. My cashflow is low enough that survivability is more the issue with the occassional kill just sauce for the goose. As I setup my first NH, I'm using EFT to weigh these ideas but am not seeing the peak shield regen rates being described by many and am wondering what is different, or more likely what I am doing wrong. My regen rates are consistently lower than advertised with the same gear. My skills relative to regen are maxed, unless I've missed something, and I even added a %5 regen implant. Comparing Allestin's previous post above from the 18th, matching the hadware exactly and with no shield rigs my max regen is 106.64%. That is with a +5% shield regen implant, Shield Op/Mgmt both at 5, 4 x SPR II's and 1 x Shield Recharger II. Not sure what I am missing. Can you list, or tell me what skills/levels and implants you include in your analysis and also what tool? I'm wondering if EFT (which I love) might be inaccurate if you are using a different tool. or, if I have made a blatant skill omission could someone please smack me?
Nu Wa	Posted - 2007.09.20 18:27:00 - [121] Edited by: Nu Wa on 20/09/2007 18:31:19 Edited by: Nu Wa on 20/09/2007 18:29:35 I flew the nighthawk with passive setup for a long time until I got active with the pithum-A booster and all. I would have to say the passive does come close to rival the active if you go all out in the low slots. But, I would like to add something to the discussion (don't know if anyone has already mentioned) That is the nature of passive shield tank. During a fight, the opponenet either breaks your max peak or it doesn't. But if the DPS does break the peak, it's all downhill from there, there is no recovering. He can have his dps cut to 50% (for lots of reasons: you moving out of his optimum, he ran outa cap/ammo, his buddy left etc.) and he would still be able to kill you. Not the case with the active tank. As long as you have the cap (nos threat isn't as great with the nerf?) you can jump back in with FULL tank boosting at anytime, even if you were at the last HP in structure. I guess what I was trying to say is that with active tank, your maximum tankable DPS stays same through out. Where passive tankable DPS is a bell curve, strongest at the peak but weak as crap after that point. Again, if opponent DPS breaks your max peak and get your shield to 0%,( and it will happen during pvp) you are screwed then because after that point a good frigate can probably finish you off.
Groves111 Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.24 06:49:00 - [122] I'm going to have to agree with Ferocious FeAr, I recently got my nighthawk and believe the nighthawk is a far better active tanked ship. It's got a 700m3 cargo hold, so plenty of 800's. Not to mention fitting a passive tank will gimp the ability to deal any a decent amount of damage or yet even solo pvp. Whilst a passive tank will do around 1000 dps, thats all it will do. I also find having an active tank you have more control over your ship tanking ability. Here are my 2 nighthawk fittings: Gang/Fleet PvP: Highs: 6 Heavy missile launcher II's(I mainly stock T2 kinetics and precisions and T1 of all damage types), 1 Small named neut(Thanks to the nos nerf) Meds: 1 Large shield booster II, Med electrochem injector(800's), 2 Invul II's, 1 EM hardener II Lows: 3 Ballistic Control Unit II's, 1 Damage control unit II, 1 Power diagnostic unit II Solo/Small Gang PvP: Highs: 6 Heavy missile launcher II's, 1 Small named neut Meds: 1 Large shield booster II, Med electrochem injector(800's), 1 Invul II's, 1 EM hardener II, 1 Warp Disruptor II Lows: 3 Ballistic Control Unit II's, 1 Damage control unit II, 1 Power diagnostic unit II Drones: Warrior II's These fittings tank around 530-560 DPS And deal around 530 DPS From What I've seen with EFT, using HAM's can get a nighthawks damage output to around 700DPS with drones but I've never tried this in practice. --- Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Aramendel Amarr Coreli Corporation Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.09.24 07:47:00 - [123] Originally by: LUKEC And warping back to fight with 1/3 shield is very bright. Unless you warped out with 0% shield you will be far above that by the time you warp in again. Quote: Active tanks have some advantages that can't exactly be included in quickfit. Arguing about pure numbers ... t2 with gang is better than passive, t2 with drugs is better than passive. What does passive have again? Apart from 2x bigger ship and more buffer that won't really save you anymore? Correction: t2 with gang where a vulture is running gangmods is better than passive. Or another fleet command ship. But only really those - because BCs and field commands can only run one link and that usually won't a shield boosting one.
SpinkTon Caldari Stronghold corp	Posted - 2007.09.24 11:29:00 - [124] Guys I have 2 questions. One question is the the advocates of the passive tanks and the other question is to the advocates of the active tank (note: all tech2 stuff listed) Ill start with the active tank Large booster cap injector 1 em 2 inv Versus Large booster cap injector 1 em 1 inv 1 shield amplifier To the passive advocates 2 large shield extenders 1 em 2 invulns Versus 2 large shield extenders 1 em 1 inv 1 shield recharger Thoughts? Thanks -Spink
Aramendel Amarr Coreli Corporation Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.09.24 12:27:00 - [125] Edited by: Aramendel on 24/09/2007 12:30:23 Thats pretty simple. At first glance at least. A 2nd invul gives you after stacking penalities 17.1% resistance for EM and 26.1% for the rest. In total an average damage reduction of 23.9% or a 31% stronger tank. Active: A t2 SBA gives a 36% boost to your tank. So the SBA will be better in terms of maximum regeneration. In numbers, you can permatank just with the LSB2 + SBA2 254 dps and with LSB2 and 2nd invul2 245 dps. However the additonal resistance of the invul will not only make each HP you rep more "worth" but also increase the "value" of your starting shield HP. The NH has after shield management 5 6006 shield hp. With the SBA setup that are normalized to 0% resistance average 18689 hp, with the 2nd invul setup 24542 hp. So an effective HP difference of 5853. This is a headstart you have to overtake with the bigger boost, but that takes time. Quite a lot actually - 11 minutes of continuos boosting with that setup. If you include a full HG crystal set, max gang bonuses inculding maxed vulture and 2 t2 duration rigs it takes 4 minutes of continuous boosting to get even. Considering that the invul seems a better option to me. Slightly smaller tank, but a such high effective HP increase that by the time you have boosted enough to get even the battle should be already over. Would only use the SBA2 if I had a deadspace booster. Passive: Invul. No competition. For the regeneration tank 1% resistance and 1% recharge has the same effect and a shield recharger 2 is only -15% while the invul2 has -23.9%. And the same issues with the value of your starting shield HP.
studyhard	Posted - 2007.09.24 12:47:00 - [126] y not 5x spr in bottom and e t2 large extenders and then 3 slots for whatever resists you like. add 2 purgers and you have over 200 regen per second seems like it would be a good setup to me
Gypsio III Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.24 13:48:00 - [127] Edited by: Gypsio III on 24/09/2007 13:51:59 Quote: y not 5x spr in bottom and e t2 large extenders and then 3 slots for whatever resists you like. add 2 purgers and you have over 200 regen per second seems like it would be a good setup to me It's a good tank, but it's no bloody good at anything else. No cap to run a gang mod, poor DPS, poor mobility and no tackle. It's just a complete waste of ship, really. It's the same problem as the Drake has - people get obsessed with putting the biggest tank possible on, without realising that the resultant ship is useless - just a big fat brick that sits there and does nothing. And any respectable gang has the DPS to break any passive Drake, so you're just left to last and then killed. I'm not a fan of passive Drakes in general - a long-range HM Drake is better off fitting ewar rather than tank, and a close-range HAM Drake has neither the PG or lowslots (after fitting BCS) to fit a viable passive tank.
Allestin Villimar	Posted - 2007.09.24 13:56:00 - [128] 6 heavy launchers with the rate of fire bonus will provide enough DPS to eat through most battleship tanks, and with that kind of tanking you can take on 3-4 battleships without much of an issue. It's not the best for medium-large warfare, no, but it's awesome for small scale.
studyhard	Posted - 2007.09.24 14:05:00 - [129] Edited by: studyhard on 24/09/2007 14:07:22 Originally by: Allestin Villimar 6 heavy launchers with the rate of fire bonus will provide enough DPS to eat through most battleship tanks, and with that kind of tanking you can take on 3-4 battleships without much of an issue. It's not the best for medium-large warfare, no, but it's awesome for small scale. ty for that i can handle alot of damage with this setup works the same on a drake altho i get alot better dps on the nighthawk plus it can tank thru a decent gatecamp with ease. went thru a 4 man camp comprised of 2 battleships a tackler and a deimos i think thats good enought for me the funny part ther ran away you might ask y. becuase i dont need cap and they do to run there tank eventualy i broke there tanks and they had to flee hahha 2 battleships a deimos and a interceptor running from a nighthawk isnt it grand. the bs were a apoc and a nos domi running t2 ogres. also i have no problem running l4 missions or staying alive to give group bonuses sorry that im a horrible typer btw :O also if i drop a lil regen i can run a warfare module if its needed.
Dakisha Mining Bytes Inc. Mass Destruction.	Posted - 2007.09.26 22:08:00 - [130] A passive tank on a nighthawk is just silly. Same as on a drake. Sod all DPS. Groves111 setup is the first sensible setup I've seen in this thread.
Allestin Villimar	Posted - 2007.09.26 23:16:00 - [131] And why would you choose either of them for DPS? Let's face it, a drake with T2 HAMs and 3 BCUs still won't be the king of the hill on damage, and neither will a nighthawk. Missiles just suck for sustained DPS. It's better to use a ship for the strengths it has than try and augment the ones it doesn't.
Dakisha Mining Bytes Inc. Mass Destruction.	Posted - 2007.09.26 23:55:00 - [132] Yes; why would you want DPS as a Caldari pilot. How silly of me.
Allestin Villimar	Posted - 2007.09.27 02:31:00 - [133] Because you can passively tank better than you can actively tank and get near identical DPS?
IceCreamMonster	Posted - 2007.09.27 02:40:00 - [134] Passive tanking blows whenever you are taking more DPS than your tank can handle. Then the damage you absorb till you blow is just the area under the curve. So what if you can manage 130/s passive regen on a passive tank? It's only for that particular moment. On the other hand, the 100/s active tank will be a flat line on the graph. The result of the integral will be much bigger for the active tank..... and in many cases, that will give you the time to either finish the enemy first or kill the tackler to warp away. Get out of quickfit because some of you are so caught up with that magical peak regen number that you are forgetting what happens to your tank when it's past that point.
Cavtrooper Caldari Greenspring	Posted - 2007.09.27 02:47:00 - [135] I like the setup Captin... Need a jump clone? Tired of jumping 30 jumps to hang out with friends? Try our new Jump Clone Service!
Allestin Villimar	Posted - 2007.09.27 04:30:00 - [136] Of course when you can get 300 /s, and your booster only restores for 120 a sec, I only have to be at peak regen for 4-5 seconds before I've equalled everything you'll restore in that entire bar. And if they can't break the tank, then they're just wasting ammo. Of course if you've got some heavy neuts on you you won't be tanking at all, whereas all I'm going to lose is about half the effect of my invuln field. Passive tanks aren't ideal for fleet battles, no, but no tank holds up to fleet battles. I'd rather have a ship virtually immune to 3-4 opponents that can't be neuter'd and save my ship with 40k shields for fleet battles. Don't just know what your ship is good at, know when to use it. Use a vulture for fleet battles since they get better gang bonuses and can strike from farther away anyway. Btw, if I was going to stop at 120 shields / sec with passive, I'd do this: 6x T2 Heavy Launcher, 1x Cloaking Device 2x T2 LSE, 1x T2 Shield Recharger, 1x DG Invuln Field, 1x DG passive EM Resist 3x BCU T2, 2x SPR T2 2x Core Defence Purger Rigs With level 5 skills and 5% implants that nets you around 117 / sec. EM is only resist below 81% at 74%, and I'm doing every bit as much damage as any other set up here. Oh, and did I mention that in order to get 120 shields per second with a booster you either have to use the best faction mods or fit multiple boosters? And that if you fit enough boosters and amps to equal that 117 / s regen, you can't fit a reasonable (meaning medium or larger) cap injector? Of course, even though you're boosting that much, you don't have the extenders (or capacitor) to boost for very long, assuming you aren't neutralized. In other words, it makes no sense not to passive tank this thing. You gain no benefit to actively tanking it since you have less shields, can't regen nearly as much, don't have the grid to fit cap injectors that will make any serious impact on your cap, and you gain no additional DPS.
port22 VeldSPAR Warriors	Posted - 2007.09.27 04:49:00 - [137] Originally by: Dakisha A passive tank on a nighthawk is just silly. Same as on a drake. Sod all DPS. Cause a Drake/Nighthawk are DPS boats... not. Originally by: Allestin Villimar And why would you choose either of them for DPS? Let's face it, a drake with T2 HAMs and 3 BCUs still won't be the king of the hill on damage, and neither will a nighthawk. Missiles just suck for sustained DPS. It's better to use a ship for the strengths it has than try and augment the ones it doesn't. And these ships strengths are passive tanks. Math doesnt lie. Originally by: Dakisha Yes; why would you want DPS as a Caldari pilot. How silly of me. Yes. Originally by: Allestin Villimar Because you can passively tank better than you can actively tank and get near identical DPS? No, passive tanking a NH takes a lot of its DPS. Originally by: IceCreamMonster Passive tanking blows whenever you are taking more DPS than your tank can handle. Then the damage you absorb till you blow is just the area under the curve. So what if you can manage 130/s passive regen on a passive tank? It's only for that particular moment. On the other hand, the 100/s active tank will be a flat line on the graph. The result of the integral will be much bigger for the active tank..... and in many cases, that will give you the time to either finish the enemy first or kill the tackler to warp away. Get out of quickfit because some of you are so caught up with that magical peak regen number that you are forgetting what happens to your tank when it's past that point. Correct me if im wrong, but any tank blows if your taking more damage than you can rep. Try over 200 shields a second (not 130 as you pointed out) at their peak regen. True, active tanks boost flat line, however, show me an active tank for a vulture/nighthawk that outperforms the uber passive tank on caldari commands without using extremely expensive faction/deadspace/officer gear. Passive tanks are a) cheaper than the faction/officer alternatives and b) superiour in the tanks in most situations. Yes your dps does suck, but you cant have your cake and eat it too unless you want to spend billions on your ship. Personally I use the passive tank on the NH for missions with a Domination Invuln field. Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II Domination Invulnerability Field I Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II [empty high slot] Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I Resists 68.8% EM 83.1% THERM 88.3% KIN 77.5% EXP - 13826 Shields Tanks: 100% EM - 624 DPS 100% THERM - 1154 DPS 100% KIN - 1665 DPS 100% EXP - 886 DPS Megathron (Therm/Kinetic 50/50) - 1363 DPS As expected, the vulture is even more impressive. Flame away Originally by: Temp Boi Port FTMFW Period.
Peanut Swsh Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.09.27 04:53:00 - [138] I dunno if you guys have looked at this. But when you calculate the damage that an active tank Nighthawk can handle, you should also include the passive shield regen of the NH. Its probably not a huge amount of extra dps which can be tanked, but it is probably relevant to your discussions.
Gypsio III Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.27 08:09:00 - [139] Max skilled NH with 3x BCS II and HAMs will do, with 3% implants and drones, 756 DPS. That may not be king of the hill, but it's not exactly passive-Drake level either.
Dakisha Mining Bytes Inc. Mass Destruction.	Posted - 2007.09.27 08:38:00 - [140] Edited by: Dakisha on 27/09/2007 08:44:55 BC 5, CC 4, Heavy missile spec 4, rapid launch 5, warhead upgrades 4. edit: 6x Heavy Missile Launcher II ofc. ----------- non-bonused t2 fury, 1 bcu : 275 dps bonused t2 fury, 1 bcu : 330 dps non-bonused t2 fury, 1 bcu : 370 dps bonused t2 fury, 3 bcu's : 440dps Nuff said.
IceCreamMonster	Posted - 2007.09.27 11:17:00 - [141] You are still just seeing that "awesome" max regen number and not realizing your tanking ability is almost zero from armor to structure. When the shield is gone, you blow up very very quick, there is barely time to respond. "Correct me if im wrong, but any tank blows if your taking more damage than you can rep." Not any tank, tanking 2 minutes vs. 4 minutes means life and death. Ferocious was spot on, passives are mostly Drake converts with the mission runner mentality.
Gypsio III Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.27 12:30:00 - [142] Quote: A passive tank on a nighthawk is just silly. Same as on a drake. Sod all DPS. Slightly simplistic but the point is valid. Once you've fit HAM IIs and BCS IIs, neither Drake nor NH has the PG or lowslots to fit a viable passive tank. I'm not convinced there's much point tanking a small-gang HM Drake (aside from certain niche roles) when you can sit at range and use ewar instead, and arguably that holds for NH as well. Ok, a HAM NH loses the missile precision bonus, but that bonus is fairly rubbish, tbh.
Dakisha Mining Bytes Inc. Mass Destruction.	Posted - 2007.09.27 15:42:00 - [143] For comparison sake, I guess I should include the HAM dps also. BC 5, CS 4, Heavy Assault spec 4, rapid launch 5, warhead upgrades 4. Unbonused T2 rage, 1 BCU: 355 dps Bonused T2 rage, 1 BCU: 425 dps Unbonused T2 rage, 3 BCUs: 475 dps Bonused T2 rage, 3 BCUs: 570 dps I will concede that the HAM II DPS is a lot nicer than the Heavy II DPS with only 1 BCU - but it doesn't take much to tank a BS for 350dps.
Allestin Villimar	Posted - 2007.09.27 17:33:00 - [144] Originally by: IceCreamMonster You are still just seeing that "awesome" max regen number and not realizing your tanking ability is almost zero from armor to structure. When the shield is gone, you blow up very very quick, there is barely time to respond. And since you're not fitting armor plates or armor reps, I doubt you're going to last long enough to rep twice with a shield booster anyway.
port22 VeldSPAR Warriors	Posted - 2007.09.28 01:17:00 - [145] Edited by: port22 on 28/09/2007 01:23:48 EDITED TO INCLUDE DPS - And these setups do not take into account ANY implants to help tanking. Originally by: IceCreamMonster You are still just seeing that "awesome" max regen number and not realizing your tanking ability is almost zero from armor to structure. When the shield is gone, you blow up very very quick, there is barely time to respond. "Correct me if im wrong, but any tank blows if your taking more damage than you can rep." Not any tank, tanking 2 minutes vs. 4 minutes means life and death. Ferocious was spot on, passives are mostly Drake converts with the mission runner mentality. No offence but you wrote words with no meaning or valid point. You dont tank a drake to shield boost while taking armor or hull damage. Caldari ships go down faster than a *** on * once armor starts taking damage. The math speaks for itself, drakes/nh's/vultures/rattlesnakes make excellent passive tanks. Uber officer/deadspace tanks may be better but for the money, passive is superiour for tanking. This of course does not take into account dps, but as previously pointed out, caldari boats arent dps machines. Passive T2 Nighthawk Setup: (68% EM - 83% THERM - 88% KIN - 77% EXP) 67,232 Effective Shields - 194 shields/sec@peak 81,402 Effective Hitpoints Total 291 DPS Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II Domination Invulnerability Field Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II [empty high slot] Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I Active T2 Nighthawk Setup: (75% EM - 88% THERM - 85% KIN - 84% EXP) 39,960 Effective Shields - 81.6 shields/sec@flat 54,130 Effective Hitpoints Total 428 DPS Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II [empty high slot] Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Originally by:** Temp Boi Port FTMFW Period.
Weeka Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2007.09.28 05:38:00 - [146] Originally by: port22 stuff Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II more stuff Any reason you throw away cap, and don't use capacitor power relays?
port22 VeldSPAR Warriors	Posted - 2007.09.28 08:05:00 - [147] Originally by: Weeka Originally by: port22 stuff Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II more stuff Any reason you throw away cap, and don't use capacitor power relays? Cap Power Relays affect your shield boost amount, therefore limiting your tank. Multiply that by a factor of 3 and yeah.... Originally by: Temp Boi Port FTMFW Period.
Gypsio III Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.28 08:52:00 - [148] Quote: This of course does not take into account dps, but as previously pointed out, caldari boats arent dps machines. Not when you waste those low slots on SPRs, no... 6x HAM II Photon II Inv II LSB II SBA II medium electro cap booster DC II RCU II 3x BCS II 5x hobgoblin IIs 2x Core Defence Operational Solidifier WIth max skills and 3% damage and ROF implants, EFT says: 756 DPS Tanks 707 DPS, cap dies in 6 mins 17 secs (mainly because of rigs) People generally won't primary a NH, because they assume it has a stupid big passive tank and feeble DPS, just like the standard PVE Drake fit. So stop wasting those slots and surprise them.
Weeka Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2007.09.28 09:59:00 - [149] Originally by: port22 Cap Power Relays affect your shield boost amount, therefore limiting your tank. Multiply that by a factor of 3 and yeah.... I stand corrected
IceCreamMonster	Posted - 2007.09.28 19:54:00 - [150] Originally by: port22 Edited by: port22 on 28/09/2007 01:35:15 Edited by: port22 on 28/09/2007 01:23:48 EDITED TO INCLUDE DPS - And these setups do not take into account ANY implants to help tanking. Originally by: IceCreamMonster You are still just seeing that "awesome" max regen number and not realizing your tanking ability is almost zero from armor to structure. When the shield is gone, you blow up very very quick, there is barely time to respond. "Correct me if im wrong, but any tank blows if your taking more damage than you can rep." Not any tank, tanking 2 minutes vs. 4 minutes means life and death. Ferocious was spot on, passives are mostly Drake converts with the mission runner mentality. No offence but you wrote words with no meaning or valid point. You dont tank a drake to shield boost while taking armor or hull damage. Caldari ships go down faster than a *** on * once armor starts taking damage. The math speaks for itself, drakes/nh's/vultures/rattlesnakes make excellent passive tanks. Uber officer/deadspace tanks may be better but for the money, passive is superiour for tanking. This of course does not take into account dps, but as previously pointed out, caldari boats arent dps machines. Passive T2 Nighthawk Setup: (68% EM - 83% THERM - 88% KIN - 77% EXP) 67,232 Effective Shields - 194 shields/sec@peak 81,402 Effective Hitpoints Total 291 DPS Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II Domination Invulnerability Field Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II [empty high slot] Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I Active T2 Nighthawk Setup: (75% EM - 88% THERM - 85% KIN - 84% EXP) 39,960 Effective Shields - 81.6+15.5(97.1) shields/sec@flat 54,130 Effective Hitpoints Total** 428 DPS Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II [empty high slot] Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I I'm not offended, we are just here dicussing about a game, but I think you guys missed my point when I mentioned the armor+sturcture damage. Once damage gets to armor+sturcture, your tank at that point is: Passive: 1) armor hp with resistance 2) structure hp with 0% resistance (passive tank can't afford damage control II if you want to maintain the same DPS) 3) shield regen at 0% with shield resistance Active tank: 1) armor hp with resistance 2) structure hp with 60% resistance (Damage control II) 3) full shield boosting with shield resistance. See the difference? Every chunk of hp the enemy takes out of armor or sturcture, he would have to fight the cycle of full shield boosting on the active tank, hence a "flat-line" tank through out on the graph. This means it is just as hard to eat through active tank's armor + structure as it is to eat through it's shield, because it's shield tank is still there working fully when in armor and structure! Also, passive tank suffer from "moonsize signature" radius. But I think we all know that. I don't know how much it affects the damage taken because it is very situational. We DO know it certainly does not help the tank. A lot of time in these situations, what matters is effective hp. I don't have any numbers on passive vs. active effective hp in comparison, but I will check the numbers when I get home from work.
IceCreamMonster	Posted - 2007.09.28 20:42:00 - [151] Edited by: IceCreamMonster on 28/09/2007 20:43:20 Btw, I used to be a firm believer in passive tanking in combat. Flying around thinking I'm all bad... immune to nos.. 5 digit hp etc.. crazy regen.. and I would go into quickfit to crunch out the numbers and pat myself on the back. But a couple of fights changed my mind. I'm not denying the benefits of passive tanking but it just doesn't have what it takes to get your arse out of some of the tougher situations. Combat is much more dynamic than those numbers you see in quickfit/EFT and there is no quick way to explain them unless you've seen it and started realizing it. I can understand why Ferocious FeAr and LUKEC just gave up posting here trying to prove their point. Don't let the numbers in EFT make the decision for you, the program does not take everything into account. You are suppose to make the decision from experience, and the numbers are simply tools you use to analyze certain aspects of the issue.
Allestin Villimar	Posted - 2007.09.28 22:04:00 - [152] Yeah, but think about it this way, too: The entire time they're breaking through your shields (with resistance) you're regenning them. Since you have more shields, you're regenning for a lot longer, and for most of that at a much higher rate than you would with a booster. They're also having to beat against a higher resistance rate than they would against structure or armor, even with the DC equipped. No, you aren't regenning jack when you're in armor and structure, but I'm willing to bet the additional time it takes to break through the passive tank's shields is greater than the added time you get from shield boosting across armor and structure. You're only going to boost every 3 1/2 - 4 seconds or so depending on mods, and when half a volley can eliminate that entirely you're not really buying yourself much time.
IceCreamMonster	Posted - 2007.09.28 22:55:00 - [153] "No, you aren't regenning jack when you're in armor and structure, but I'm willing to bet the additional time it takes to break through the passive tank's shields is greater than the added time you get from shield boosting across armor and structure." It isn't added time, IT IS my active shield tank. You have to stop thinking of it as a buffer because it is not, active shield tank applies from the first point of shield to the last point of structure. Where passive is counting everything at around 30ish % shield. Let me ask you this questions: From the time you realize your tank isn't holding on the passive tank, which is about 30ish % to the time you blow. And the damage only speeds up from shield->armor->structure vs. The time you realize your tank isn't holding on the active tank, which is pretty much from the beginning of the fight, till the time you blow. The speed you go down remains constant from shield->armor->structure (need I remind you, during structure, it's 60% resistance + shield tank? not your "you are not regenning jack in armor or structure") which allows you more time to react? Which is better in a pvp environment where you have no idea what you'll be facing and if you can tank it? Don't get me wrong, that max peak regen on the passive tank can be impressive if you go all out. But my point is, like I mentioned above, that passive just lacks the consistency and versatility compared to active tank in real combat. Not trying to change your mind, only trying to show some issues you are missing in the quest to find the "uber tank for nighthawk"
Allestin Villimar	Posted - 2007.09.29 01:11:00 - [154] I'm not missing anything. When I say buffer I mean that's more time you have to use your tank. What you're saying isn't any different from what I am. You still haven't noticed the fact that even while you're boosting during armor and structure, you're not likely to last more than 5-6 seconds longer than I am while I'm in armor/structure, and it'll take me a lot longer to reach the point where I'm in armor and structure. You also seem to think that just because I have a passive tank I'm not aware that my shields may not hold. If I see them dropping at a fast rate I know it won't hold just as well as you do. Difference being I'll have longer to work on getting out of there than you will because the extra hits and resists my shields have are greater than what you'll have in structure and armor plus the shield boosting combined since you won't have the slots to add resists and armor plates.
IceCreamMonster	Posted - 2007.09.29 03:24:00 - [155] I'm kinda speechless, after several post of explaining my reasoning and you go and make a reply like above. I don't know if you didn't read thoroughly through my post or I just didn't explain myself well enough... I think I will do the same like the couples before me and just leave it at that. I will respect your opinion and would not underestimate a passive nighthawk when I meet one again. Thank you for the replies, I'm out. Fly safe and have fun.
Nu Wa	Posted - 2007.09.29 03:53:00 - [156] Edited by: Nu Wa on 29/09/2007 03:53:34 Edited by: Nu Wa on 29/09/2007 03:53:09 Originally by: Allestin Villimar I'm not missing anything. When I say buffer I mean that's more time you have to use your tank. What you're saying isn't any different from what I am. You still haven't noticed the fact that even while you're boosting during armor and structure, you're not likely to last more than 5-6 seconds longer than I am while I'm in armor/structure, and it'll take me a lot longer to reach the point where I'm in armor and structure. ehh no, because in order take away armor/structure hp, you have to first negate the new shields getting boosted every cycle. In another words, you are fighting that active shield the whole time while you are taking the armor/structure down. That would take ALOT more than 5-6 extra seconds.
Allestin Villimar	Posted - 2007.09.29 07:32:00 - [157] Ok, let's say you have 480 hits boosted every 4 seconds. This is being extremely generous as it's almost impossible to obtain on a NH without using expensive faction mods, rigs, and implants (As in I could outfit my set up with 305 max regen for the cost of the shield booster and amp alone). Let's also assume 80% all around resists for shield and armor, and 2000 dps taken. With no extenders, assuming level 5 shield skills and a 5% shield hp implant, I have 6300 or so in shields. Assuming 80% resists, it'll take them 16 seconds to burn through that. During that time, your booster will activate 4 times, giving you another 1920 shields, so that's 8220. 22 seconds all total to start chipping away at your armor. Boosting the entire time and at 80% armor resists, you're armor will fall after about 12-16 seconds, depending on how you look at boosting and such. Structure is going to take 2240 every 4 seconds and will last around 8-12 seconds if you've got mechanic at level 5. So you're looking at a maximum time of 20-28 seconds once you've hit armor depending on when you started boosting and such. So a 50 seconds maximum life expectancy at 2000 DPS with a T2 damage control and 80% all around resists (which is pretty generous on the armor side of things). For the shield set up I posted earlier, I had 13,200 shields, give or take a few. Regen aside, it'll take 36 seconds to burn through that. In 36 seconds, my regen will vary up to a max of 220, so let's assume 40 for the first 6 seconds, 80 for the next 6, 120 for the next 6, 180 for the next 6, 220 for the next 6, and 40 for the last 6. This equals up to 4100. That buys me another 11 seconds roughly. With 75% armor resists (no Damage Control), you're going to be out of armor in 8 seconds. With no structure resists, the ship goes down in 3. That means I'm up to around 58 seconds of life expectancy vs 2000 DPS, and that's assuming I'm using one of my less tanky set ups that uses 2 BCUs. This also is assuming a flat bonus to my shields for the regen instead of keeping me in my peak regen stages longer, and it doesn't include any shields I'd regen during the armor and structure timeframe, which while minimal, would buy me a few more seconds. I'd be willing to bet I'd actually see closer to 70 seconds. Yes, it's "just math", but the point remains. Active tanking won't keep you alive longer due to the increased shields on a passive tank. I see so many people saying active tanks are more "versatile" or "flexibile" yet they only fit 3 BCUs to my 2, and have a quarter of the tank and that's extremely vulnerable. Then with all the added "versatility" or "utility" or any other key word, they never fit any scramblers, webbers, or anything else that would actually make them more versatile, because they need just as many mid slots for their tank as I do. Shield tanks just aren't versatile, passive or active. End of story. But with passive tanks, you get the best of both worlds - added longevity AND increased tanking ability. If you have a smart set up, you can even do it with a minimal loss of DPS. IceCreamMonster, you're entire argument seems to stem on the idea that all passive tankers don't have any idea on whether or not their tank will break. That's not less versatility, that's called player skill. If I see my shields dropping at a certain rate, I'll know the tank won't hold. But I'll have longer to bring them down and get the DPS to a managable level
Subruz	Posted - 2007.09.29 09:37:00 - [158] I'm inclined to agree with Allestin, an active tank requires just as many med slots (although less lowslots) and I don't see how anyone could call an active tank superior on the grounds that a passive tank doesn't hold up as well once the shields are down. No ****? When a passive shield tank is down to 5% you're dead, but it's also alot harder to bring down to shields on a passive than an active one...
Nu Wa	Posted - 2007.09.29 17:16:00 - [159] Originally by: Allestin Villimar Ok, let's say you have 480 hits boosted every 4 seconds. This is being extremely generous as it's almost impossible to obtain on a NH without using expensive faction mods, rigs, and implants (As in I could outfit my set up with 305 max regen for the cost of the shield booster and amp alone). Let's also assume 80% all around resists for shield and armor, and 2000 dps taken. With no extenders, assuming level 5 shield skills and a 5% shield hp implant, I have 6300 or so in shields. Assuming 80% resists, it'll take them 16 seconds to burn through that. During that time, your booster will activate 4 times, giving you another 1920 shields, so that's 8220. 22 seconds all total to start chipping away at your armor. I kinda see your point. Although assuming extra 12 seconds from regen at 0% is a bit much. Can you run my setup through? Here are the numbers on my setup: 200hp/s boost.(for consistency sake, just keep resistance at 80s like above, although mine are much higher) 11000 hp shield with max peak regen of 43/s I have all relative skills maxed. I just wanna see how many seconds I last on paper under 2000dps. Thanks!
Allestin Villimar	Posted - 2007.09.29 17:27:00 - [160] The 12 seconds came from the added peak regen time, not just what I regenned during armor and structure. I'd really like to see how you're getting 200/s with boosting (I'm guessing it's not a NH), but sure. 11,000 shields, taking 200 a second counting resists and boosting. You'd last 55 seconds under that, so let's say regen adds up to around 8 for 5, 12 for 5, 16 for 5, 20 for 5, 24 for 5, 28 for 5, 32 for 5, 36 for 5, 40 for 5, 43 for 5, 32 for 5, and 8 for 5. That's 1395. So that's another 7 seconds roughly since you'd be boosting under that as well. Just over a minute. 62 seconds looks like. That's really rough on the regen but it's probably fairly close.
IceCreamMonster	Posted - 2007.09.29 17:58:00 - [161] Edited by: IceCreamMonster on 29/09/2007 18:03:31 Edited by: IceCreamMonster on 29/09/2007 17:58:44 Ahh now I look over your numbers I realize the insane total hp on the passive does buy you more time to regen, something I overlooked in my reasoning. Although I still stand by my lack of "consistency/versatility" feeling in that passive tank regen is too uneven throughout the fight for my liking. But thanks for showing me its strength, I will leave here with much more respect for the tank now.
E Vile	Posted - 2007.10.03 17:38:00 - [162] Originally by: Tornado i dont fly a command ship but wont it be good to fit a siege warfare link module for the spare high slot? Power grid is a big problem in a nighthawk. There is not much room. "The key to immortality is to first live a life worth remembering."
Maverick Aeldrin	Posted - 2007.10.04 18:38:00 - [163] I think it is foolish to not start with the better resists of a nighthawk. If you use effective shield hardners (1 EM, 2 INVUL, 1 DC) on a nighthawk you get the following resists: EM 81.7% EX 86.3% KN 87.1% TH 89.7% Now, if you take the 2000 damage / sec and 200 hp regen/boost per second: if all 2000 DPS is EM, you are loosing 166 hp /sec if all 2000 DPS is EX, you are loosing 74 hp /sec if all 2000 DPS is KN, you are loosing 58 hp /sec if all 2000 DPS is TH, you are loosing 6 hp /sec My L4 mission running Nighthawk does a little better than this with faction equipment active shielding, but for passive sake, you CAN live longer with better resists.
CountDrakula Damned Legion	Posted - 2007.10.05 08:25:00 - [164] Faction fit for faction fit, the active tank will boost and will boost the stronger tank than the passive. Simple because the res's will compensate for the HP better and the tank will most likely take a bigger beating. Now this is true when both ships are at 80% shield. The problem comes in prolonged firefights. Any shield tanker knows hardeners, invuns and active tanks munch cap, so by the time you both hit 30% shield the passive is beginning to tank really nicely, but the active is beginning to scream, although its natural regen is now peak its cap is most likely coming up dry and it will fail to get many more boosts. Now if you jump several ships and your getting noses the active tank is at a major disadvantage to the passive. The only time the active works out more versatile is when dealing with high alpha strike snipers, which have the ability to push your shields right down bellow the point of maximum regen. But given the unlikely hood of this situation i still opt for the passive tank. Especially when considering i normally require an inty as tackle, and therefore any sniper bs is going to be very worried about that inty burning up to say hello.
E Vile	Posted - 2007.10.08 10:47:00 - [165] Active vs passive. Using both I will keep my experience simple. The fact of cap seems not to be mentioned all that much as a strong advantage for passive shields. In many of the pvp battles I been in I'm getting drained to 0 cap very quick. Passive shields have saved my butt plenty times. I bought the fancy active gear a bunch of times. I tried to like them. Way too expensive and I still feel a passive is overall more solid. I ended up reselling and switching back to passive. Biggest question you need to ask YOURSELF-What do I want MY nighthawk to do? Active would be much better for a pirate or higher offense setup. A Gankhawk Passive is more defensive, Rock solid defense even through massive Neut/Nos spam. More Anti-gankhawk. For HAM vs HM For me I want my ability to use FOF. HAM looses that. "The key to immortality is to first live a life worth remembering."
E Vile Fifth Exiled Legion SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.09 00:13:00 - [166] Originally by: Lilith Thy'nin Edited by: Lilith Thy''nin on 15/02/2007 03:49:47 i lol at you all for "DREAM" NH fittings i think this kinda hands it to you all http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9814/20070205142110po2.jpg Now that's just too shiney for my pocketbook "The key to immortality is to first live a life worth remembering."
Ciphero Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.10.09 09:40:00 - [167] 6 x HML II - 2 x Invuln II (or 1 DG Invuln, 1 Invuln II if I'm feeling frisky) 2 x LSE II 1 x Web or Sensor Booster II - 3 x BCS II 2 x PDU II - 1 x Anti-EM Shield Rig Thingy 1 x Shield Recharge Improver Rig Thingy So, yes, I'm going for the "insane resistances and decent natural recharge" tactic. Any thoughts/criticisms? I'm very new to the NH so fire away :)

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