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Pottsey
Gallente Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2006.12.08 15:51:00 -
[91]
ôThat's just plain silly. T1 BCs are now much better choices unless you absolutely need the better resists on T2s.ö No way, T2 have much better tanks more then x3 better and they donÆt cost much more. My Eos is cheap and way better then my Brutix.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
JenDen
Caldari LFS Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.08 21:19:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Karrihn It can solo all level 4's.
I won't believe Drake can solo Enemies Abound 5/5 and Worlds Collide.
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.12.09 02:49:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Karrihn
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Natasha Kerensky The REAL question is:
Can the Drake solo lvl4 missions?
A passive tanked missile Ferox can solo some level 4s, so...
It can solo all level 4's.
You can solo a lvl 4 vengance mission with a passive tanked missile ferox?
Impressive, considering that the final NPc can tank cruise missile ravens that do 2x the DPS of a missile ferox.
Unless you meant the Drake, which can most likely kill em all, but that Vengeance guy would be nasty and take a couple warpouts probably.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Feradwynn
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Posted - 2006.12.11 19:52:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Shadarle Alrighty, here is the tanking comparison.
The nighthawk can tank 632.65 damage at peak recharge averaged against all 4 resists. EM=61.19% or 266.38 max EM tank Expl=84.48% or 665.95 max Expl tank Kin=85.45% or 710.34 max Kin tank Therm=88.36% or 887.93 max Therm tank
The Drake can tank 495.99 damage at peak recharge averaged against all 4 resists. EM=58.60% or 309.19 max EM tank Expl=83.44% or 772.96 max Expl tank Kin=75.16% or 515.31 max Kin tank Therm=66.88% or 386.48 max Therm tank
Thus 495.99 (drake) vs 632.65 (nighthawk) gives the nighthawk a 27.553% better tank. It does 14.x% more damage.
Multiplied that means the Nighthawk is approximate 46% better than the Drake in these two categories. I'd like to see how the OP can complain that a 46% boost isn't worth the training/cost. He better also compare the cost increase from a caracal to a cerb and the damage/tank difference as well. And also from a frig to an assault frig to show us how out of whack the Command Ships are and the nighthawk in particular is in his mind.
Not sure where you got your numbers from mate, but the Drake and the Nighthawk have the EXACT same base EMP and EXP resists. Add the same mods and they end up with the EXACT same values. I need to call BS on this as a result. Not sure what you did with the extra Drake midslot, but toss in another invuln II and recalculate. Not sure about the base recharge rate. The NH does have an extra low slot, but the Drake has a higher shield rating and therefore a higher base recharge before fitting the low slots. Adjusting the low slot fittings should help to get the Drake to a comperable recharge rate.
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Vincent Almasy
Gallente The Underground
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Posted - 2006.12.11 20:04:00 -
[95]
is this a topic to have the drake's 4% resistance boost removed, if so i'm for it to be fair or let the amarr get their 5% boost back as well and the matar their 5% boost back to active shielding.
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Hotice
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Posted - 2006.12.11 21:01:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Hotice on 11/12/2006 21:05:10 All command ships are based tier 1 battle cruisers. So, all we need is for ccp to release tier 2 command ships based tier 2 battle cruisers. Then the play field would be even.
However, even with the current command ships, they are still better than tier 2 battle cruisers even with less hp. This is due to their resistance and extra fire power. Any of the command ships can handle pretty much all the lvl 4 missions and do them well. you cannot say the same for all the tier 2 battle cruisers. I can fly all the HACs and Command ships. the difference between battle cruisers, HACs and Command ships is very big. It is not a waste of time to train for command ships!
Be able to handle a mission is one thing, do it quickly and safely is another. I have done lvl 4 Angel extravaganza in Retribution a few times. Each time it took me at least 2 hours and 4+ sets of T2 crystals. However, you wouldn't see me to come here and complain about training HACs and Command ships are waste of time since I could do a few lvl 4s in an AF.
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Seraphim Io
Caldari Battlestars Imperium Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.12 06:22:00 -
[97]
um can the vulture get a boost please for us hybrid caldari pilots I really dont want to have to train into gallente for yet another ship type.......
Originally by: Koshmarnaya Akula
Nothing says "stealth" like oh look a stealth bomber warped in!
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Akiman
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Posted - 2006.12.12 09:24:00 -
[98]
anyone compared between astarte and drake dps? or tanking abilities?
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Terrance O'Conner
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Posted - 2006.12.15 12:33:00 -
[99]
Don't get this thread. Sure the tier2 BCs are nice, - especislly so the Drake. And yes, can do lvl4 missions in a drake, but takes about 2-3 times that of a NH, not to mention if things go bad your chances of survival are a lot better in a NH as this baby pawns webber/scrammer frigs in no time. To the damage part, well, the NH beats Drake anyday of the for the sole reason it doesn't need to rely so hard on passive setups, but can be fitted with large t2 SB and perma-tank without problems (20% better base cap-recharge), which in this way will free up 2 low-slots for damage mods, + probably still have better tanking capabilities than the drake. So stop whining, the NH is uber compared to drake. with same tank, dps will be about 25-30% better at least.
For PvE setup use this:
6 x hvy 1 x whatever
1 x hardener (specific) 1 x large booster 1 x boost amp 2 x cap-recharger
2 x bcu 3 x pds
All t2 stuff and good skills will allow you to crash through lvl:4s faster than most cruise-missile fitted ravens, and never come close to problems.
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Terrance O'Conner
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Posted - 2006.12.15 12:44:00 -
[100]
One more thing, - Nighthawk looks so more cool than the drake
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Almarez
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Posted - 2006.12.15 18:04:00 -
[101]
Someone may have said this I didn't read through everything. Remember the primary role of command ships, at least the ones that allow three gang mods, is to help the fleet. The ones that allow just one mod, well I guess they are slightly better than tier 2 BC's but I agree that it isn't worth the extra training, unless you think that BC lvl 5 will help with both ship classes.
Also, the second set of bonuses can definitely make a difference.
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Sorja
E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.12.15 18:20:00 -
[102]
Have you ever seen a Sleipnir in action ?
What the OP is saying boils down to: 'since the Nighthawk sucks, the Drake has to suck harder'.
/me goes away still dreaming about a high damage Caldari ship, which the Drake was supposed to be and is not. ____________________ A gentleman is someone who can play the bagpipe, but who does not. |
Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.12.15 21:06:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Sorja Have you ever seen a Sleipnir in action ?
What the OP is saying boils down to: 'since the Nighthawk sucks, the Drake has to suck harder'.
/me goes away still dreaming about a high damage Caldari ship, which the Drake was supposed to be and is not.
/me wonders when we're getting our teir 2 gank BCs since we've not got the tier 2 tank BCs.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Talos Darkhart
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Posted - 2006.12.15 23:09:00 -
[104]
This was not a nerf to T2 it was a nerf to long term players after 9months of nooobs whinging and moaning they nerfed EvE into EvE lite were you can be uber in weeks with little to no effort or risk wellcome to the new dawn walcome to Kali the death of EVE.
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Angus McLean
Gallente Divinity Trials
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Posted - 2006.12.16 00:33:00 -
[105]
Doesnt anyone think its odd that Tier 2 BC's are about the same price (maybe 5m lower than) a Tier 1 Battleship? Stupid minerals cost...
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Cuebick
Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.12.16 03:38:00 -
[106]
The amount of time that it takes to train up for Command Ships is worth it.. I wouldnt trade my Absolution for a Harbinger EVER. The Absolution is so much better.
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.12.16 06:09:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Talos Darkhart This was not a nerf to T2 it was a nerf to long term players after 9months of nooobs whinging and moaning they nerfed EvE into EvE lite were you can be uber in weeks with little to no effort or risk wellcome to the new dawn walcome to Kali the death of EVE.
Is that why a lot of older players seem to love that they can finally have a viable PVP ship, that isn't a battleship, and doesn't send them to the poor house, or take several months to train for?
Let new players use the new ships to NPC or whatever. I know I'm going to be a hell of alot more afraid of a DRake coming at me than a Ferox though.
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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ViperVenom
Minmatar Fast Food Corp Novus Ordos Seclorum
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Posted - 2006.12.16 08:32:00 -
[108]
Field command ship are power houses. they have great tank. And gank that a Drake would love to have.
I like a Hurricane. But a T2 fitted Sleipnir is a monster.
So yes a Drake is nasty but field command ships are just plan out nasty.
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Revan Wolf
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Posted - 2006.12.16 10:19:00 -
[109]
now i may be wrong about this but...for a drake
if you maxed out both heavy assult and heavy missle spec. and you have 2 rigs for ROF bonus and 2 ballistic controllers that adds up to a good 70% ROF give or take stacking penalties..
for heavy missle ROF that gives about 3.6 ROF..(give or take) and for heavy assult around 1.92ish ROF..(give or take)..
so i would guess that to make up for some of the downsides of the drake the dps with even minimal skill lvl's should be enough to give the NH a run for its money
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Galban Hunter
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2006.12.16 11:20:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Cuebick The amount of time that it takes to train up for Command Ships is worth it.. I wouldnt trade my Absolution for a Harbinger EVER. The Absolution is so much better.
Singed -------------------------------------------- [2005.02.08 13:58:16] Your Mega Beam Laser II perfectly strikes Sansha's Beast, wrecking for 709.6 damage.
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QwaarJet
Gallente Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.12.16 11:23:00 -
[111]
I own an Astarte and Nighthawk. They are my favourite ships, ad i've used them at the highest level, in the alliance tournament.
They have never let me down, and I feel they are fine the way they are.
"Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimeter Of Wisdom.Run!" |
Hex'Caliber
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.16 12:26:00 -
[112]
I have to agree the difference between t1 ships and their t2 counterparts is too little to justify the cost and sp investment now. I am too tired to present examples, besides others are doing a sterling job. But I will say I have sold my hac's and replaced them with bc's and now have a healthier looking wallet, better tank's and equivalent or better damage and I only have bc 3 trained, which if I recall I trained 12 months ago during the first month of my current mains life . I did keep my Ishtar for low sec ratting and my Taranis but those are the only t2 ships I can see myself using now unless the current situation is addressed.
Personally, I have a beef with the approach to ship design and balance in eve anyway, imho it is farcical. Bleh I am off to bed, before this annoys me any further, perhaps I can finally start training trade or industry skills, as there seems little point in training for command ships or combat recon now, when their t1 cousins will do nearly as good a job for a fraction of the cost.
If the number of rig slots per t2 and t1 were switched so that t1 have fewer slots than t2, the sp and cost would be worthwhile. Imho that would make more sense for ships that are supposed to be advanced versions within their respective classes, but what do I know, it seems common sense has no place in eve ship design.
SISI testing ôDonÆt forget to start the log server before the client; the logs are needed for bug reports when something goes wrong.ö Regards HexCaliber
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