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Balogh Gallente Real-time EVE Stock Exchange	Posted - 2006.12.01 17:45:00 - [1] I would like to announce RESX, the Real-time EVE Stock Exchange. RESX is a stock exchange which allows instant trading. This means that orders do not need to be activated by a broker. Trading happens instantly by matching newly created orders against existing buy or sell orders. Because of the nature of RESX, money and shares have to be deposited into an account before trading. When finished, (a part of) the contents of the account can be withdrawn. Dividend received for shares in accounts (and in sell orders) will be distributed appropriately according to the amount of shares at that moment. When a shareholder's vote is held, RESX will use the shares to vote in the shareholders' best interest. All votes performed by RESX will be logged. RESX charges a 0.5% fee on both deposits and withdrawals of money. Transactions and dividend are not charged. RESX is also experimenting with interest. The idea behind this is to prevent money from sitting idle in buy orders. RESX currently provides 1% interest per month, calculated daily. This rate may be lowered or even suspended, if it proves unmaintainable. Please do not use RESX as a bank. Far more effective investments exist. For example, FIN (EFS?) offers a minimum 4% return per month. This character (Balogh) has been created by Labogh specifically for tracking deposits. Money for deposits can be sent at any time, as this is logged by the journal. However, shares aren't logged. Please obtain my approval before transferring shares, so they aren't lost. If I'm offline, please contact Labogh. The location of RESX is http://resx.nfshost.com/. Please view the About page, or read RESX_2006-11-14.pdf.
Labogh Caldari Real-time EVE Stock Exchange	Posted - 2006.12.01 17:46:00 - [2] Posting to confirm Balogh is my alt.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.01 17:54:00 - [3] In before Shin Ra! Gonna start the questions here. Originally by: Balogh Because of the nature of RESX, money and shares have to be deposited into an account before trading. Why should we trust you? Originally by: Balogh When a shareholder's vote is held, RESX will use the shares to vote in the shareholders' best interest. All votes performed by RESX will be logged. How do you know what our best interest is? -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Balogh Gallente Real-time EVE Stock Exchange	Posted - 2006.12.01 18:24:00 - [4] Originally by: Dark Shikari Why should we trust you? By trusting me, the buyer and seller of shares don't have to trust each other. Quote: How do you know what our best interest is? Originally, I stated RESX will not vote. However, it was explained to me that in certain cases, not voting could decrease the shares' value.
Ray McCormack BIG	Posted - 2006.12.01 18:33:00 - [5] Originally by: Balogh By trusting me, the buyer and seller of shares don't have to trust each other. Yes, we understand the principle of a middleman. Which is how the EGSEX works with brokers. The question is why should we trust you, specifically? \| BMBE ISK Loans \| the all mighty BIG industrial corp from hell with a slong the size of a walrus...
Balogh Gallente Real-time EVE Stock Exchange	Posted - 2006.12.01 18:46:00 - [6] Originally by: Ray McCormack The question is why should we trust you, specifically? While I've written the RESX code to support multiple operators, I am currently the only one. If you want to use RESX, you have to trust me. RESX does have an Audit page. It lists all assets which RESX has to transfer if everybody decides to withdraw everything. If desired, one may request screenshots of the RESX corp wallet (where the money and shares are stored), or even join the RESX corp with Junior Accountant access.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.01 19:13:00 - [7] Originally by: Balogh Originally by: Ray McCormack The question is why should we trust you, specifically? While I've written the RESX code to support multiple operators, I am currently the only one. If you want to use RESX, you have to trust me. But why should we trust you with tens of billions of ISK? What reputation do you have to justify this? -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Balogh Gallente Real-time EVE Stock Exchange	Posted - 2006.12.01 20:12:00 - [8] Originally by: Dark Shikari But why should we trust you with tens of billions of ISK? What reputation do you have to justify this? None.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.01 20:37:00 - [9] Originally by: Balogh Originally by: Dark Shikari But why should we trust you with tens of billions of ISK? What reputation do you have to justify this? None. Then this won't work. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
BurnHard	Posted - 2006.12.01 20:44:00 - [10] Lmaaaaaaaaooooooooooooooooo. This thread is funny.
Vix3n Distribution Solutions Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2006.12.01 20:48:00 - [11] If you dont get the "Dark Shikari Seal of Approval" you're just pretty much SOL. Don't worry though, your efforts weren't completely in vain. I mean, atleast you know how to program a little stock-exchange dealio in php. Cool Signed, "I almost jumped to lightspeed in my pants."
BurnHard	Posted - 2006.12.01 20:54:00 - [12] Edited by: BurnHard on 01/12/2006 21:00:45 But actually, what I don't understand is that Resx has a link to it from EGSEX page (i.e. this page for example). Is it hacked, or an EGSE venture? If it isn't trusted by EGSEX, then why are they advertising it?
Balogh Gallente Real-time EVE Stock Exchange	Posted - 2006.12.01 20:59:00 - [13] Originally by: Dark Shikari Then this won't work. I really like RESX to be a success. There are things EGSE just cannot provide, due to the way it's designed. For example, doing just anything on EGSE requires broker action. Hence the Real-time part of RESX; only deposits, withdrawals and dividend distribution require manual action. Everything else is automated. Do you have any suggestions on how to make this work?
BurnHard	Posted - 2006.12.01 21:01:00 - [14] Originally by: Balogh Originally by: Dark Shikari Then this won't work. I really like RESX to be a success. There are things EGSE just cannot provide, due to the way it's designed. For example, doing just anything on EGSE requires broker action. Hence the Real-time part of RESX; only deposits, withdrawals and dividend distribution require manual action. Everything else is automated. Do you have any suggestions on how to make this work? It has to be run by a truster broker. Period.
Balogh Gallente Real-time EVE Stock Exchange	Posted - 2006.12.01 21:05:00 - [15] Originally by: BurnHard But actually, what I don't understand is that Resx has a link to it from EGSEX page (i.e. this page for example). Is it hacked, or an EGSE venture? If it isn't trusted by EGSEX, then why are they advertising it? A while back, when RESX was still in development, I was contacted by Aaro'ne Erviale about possibly using EGSE data on RESX. I declined this, but instead offered to link to EGSE. He offered to link to RESX when development finished.
Balogh Gallente Real-time EVE Stock Exchange	Posted - 2006.12.01 21:46:00 - [16] Originally by: BurnHard It has to be run by a truster broker. Period. Right. RESX doesn't need to be run by me.
Kasia Pelarar	Posted - 2006.12.01 22:10:00 - [17] Originally by: Dark Shikari In before Shin Ra! Gonna start the questions here. Originally by: Balogh When a shareholder's vote is held, RESX will use the shares to vote in the shareholders' best interest. All votes performed by RESX will be logged. How do you know what our best interest is? What does EGSE/brokers do with votes?
Kasia Pelarar	Posted - 2006.12.01 22:14:00 - [18] Originally by: BurnHard Originally by: Balogh Originally by: Dark Shikari Then this won't work. I really like RESX to be a success. There are things EGSE just cannot provide, due to the way it's designed. For example, doing just anything on EGSE requires broker action. Hence the Real-time part of RESX; only deposits, withdrawals and dividend distribution require manual action. Everything else is automated. Do you have any suggestions on how to make this work? It has to be run by a truster broker. Period. How do you become a trusted broker? Surely doing things like this builds trust? Were all EGSE brokers immeadiately trusted? If it HAS to be run by someone already trusted, how is anyone else ever supposed to build a similar level of trust?
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2006.12.01 22:23:00 - [19] Originally by: Kasia Pelarar What does EGSE/brokers do with votes? Absolutely nothing. ESGE brokers are middlemen that handle the transfer between parties. The monies and items pass into their hands and back out again. Totally opposite of this proposal. Originally by: Kasia Pelarar How do you become a trusted broker? Surely doing things like this builds trust? Were all EGSE brokers immeadiately trusted? If it HAS to be run by someone already trusted, how is anyone else ever supposed to build a similar level of trust? The initial brokers of ESGE were already well trusted names in the industry. Over time new people come in and have the opportunity to prove themselves. The other thing is that an ESGE broker is not assigned to anyone. People select the broker they feel most comfortable with.... usually someone they already know. I once sought information about becoming one of the brokers however I felt that my reputation and my activities of that time made me undesirable as a broker. Of course I may look at it again... and even with the backing and good word of many I still have people ready to think me a fraud and a crook. This community is a very cynical and jaded one. While the bend of your questions denote how unfair it may be to assume any unknown person is a thief and a liar experience has demonstrated to us all that we are all better off thinking that at the beginning. Of course some of these jerks fail to give proper acknowledgement when their doomcrying turns out to be nothing more than chicken littling. I can not tell you a solution other than to work from the very bottom up. That is the only path open to anyone. The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it. Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D
Balogh Gallente Real-time EVE Stock Exchange	Posted - 2006.12.01 22:38:00 - [20] Originally by: Shar Tegral ESGE brokers are middlemen that handle the transfer between parties. The monies and items pass into their hands and back out again. Not totally correct. When you create an order on EGSE, you must transfer the shares or money to the broker before he activates the order. Then, when others buy from or sell to the order, they have to transfer the money or shares to the broker before he executes the transaction. In a way, this is similar to RESX with depositing into and withdrawing from accounts.
Aaro'ne Erviale EVE Galactic Stock Exchange	Posted - 2006.12.01 23:06:00 - [21] Originally by: BurnHard Edited by: BurnHard on 01/12/2006 21:00:45 But actually, what I don't understand is that Resx has a link to it from EGSEX page (i.e. this page for example). Is it hacked, or an EGSE venture? If it isn't trusted by EGSEX, then why are they advertising it? I can assure you that this is not a hack. A while ago I had a rather long convo with Labogh on his RESX idea. I was, in the first place, interested in getting his market data to have a more accurate view on market movements. This didn't work out for several reasons. But we then agreed to link to eachothers sites, because I think (and Labogh too, I guess) that people need to know their options. That is why I'm linking to the site, but since I don't have any control over it, I don't want to be held responsible should it fail .. break apart or even worse, prove to be a scam. Hence the message "Real-time EVE Stock Exchange (RESX) is not a part of EvE Galactic Stock Exchange (EGSE). EGSE cannot be held responsible for anything that goes wrong with RESX!". [OT]I still think the idea of a real time stock exchange is appealing, but the trust issues need to be cleared before it can be put into full action. Maybe hire a third, trusted party to become CEO of the corp and handle all the "physical" money and share transfers. Aaro'ne Erviale CEO of EvE Galactic Stock Exchange Quote: As a buyer and seller of shares this is the place i want to be.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2006.12.02 12:04:00 - [22] Originally by: Balogh Originally by: Shar Tegral ESGE brokers are middlemen that handle the transfer between parties. The monies and items pass into their hands and back out again. Not totally correct. When you create an order on EGSE, you must transfer the shares or money to the broker before he activates the order. Then, when others buy from or sell to the order, they have to transfer the money or shares to the broker before he executes the transaction. You gave a lengthier explanation of the middle man process used at ESGE than I did. That is all. Originally by: Balogh In a way, this is similar to RESX with depositing into and withdrawing from accounts. With ESGE, the key thing that makes RESX galaxies different, is that the withdrawal process is guaranteed and expressly stated to occur promptly at the close of the deal. ESGE brokers do not plan to indefinitely hold both ends of the deal. What you are asking people is to let you hold all of the money they've invested and all of their shares they've bought with that money too. If something should go wrong, or should you prove false, your depositors will be double robbed. Same possibility exists with ESGE brokers but it only exists per deal. Not ad infinitum. The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it. Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D
Kasia Pelarar	Posted - 2006.12.02 13:14:00 - [23] Originally by: Shar Tegral What you are asking people is to let you hold all of the money they've invested and all of their shares they've bought with that money too. If something should go wrong, or should you prove false, your depositors will be double robbed. Same possibility exists with ESGE brokers but it only exists per deal. Not ad infinitum. You can just transfer enough money to buy the shares and then take the shares, or transfer the shares and take the money, just like an EGSE broker. You do not have to keep a balance of shares/money (as I understand it), and RESX would probably prefer you not to so they do not pay interest on Iskies).
Balogh Gallente Real-time EVE Stock Exchange	Posted - 2006.12.02 13:22:00 - [24] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Balogh In a way, this is similar to RESX with depositing into and withdrawing from accounts. With ESGE, the key thing that makes RESX galaxies different, is that the withdrawal process is guaranteed and expressly stated to occur promptly at the close of the deal. ESGE brokers do not plan to indefinitely hold both ends of the deal. There is no guarantee a rogue broker will transfer the shares to the buyer and the money to the seller. Promptly is by definition not possible, as no broker is online 24/7. The difference between EGSE and RESX is that on EGSE, you need to wait until the broker is online before he can send the buyer his shares and the seller his money. On RESX, the shares and money are immediately credited to the buyer's and seller's account. Then, the buyer might want to resell the shares, or withdraw them. Likewise, the seller might want to buy (different) shares with the money, or withdraw it. When a trader decides to withdraw anything, RESX' obligation is no different from that from a EGSE broker: to transfer the shares or money as soon as possible.
Hazurr Amarr Angelic Industries	Posted - 2006.12.02 13:29:00 - [25] there is also no guarantee that someone wellknown in eve also get tired one day and taken off __________________________________________________________________ Pessimism is the foundation of survival [URL=http://img238.imageshack.us/my.php?image=butterslq0.png][IMG]http://img238.imagesh
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2006.12.02 13:33:00 - [26] Originally by: Balogh Promptly is by definition not possible, as no broker is online 24/7. So if I do a transaction with RESX the outcome would be immediately available in game? That's the difference here mate. You are basically offering a unreal time snapshot of out of game trading that is proprietary and solely controlled by one venue. It is not representative of anything in game until after the "clerk" logs in and does transfers. Sounds alot like the equivalent ESGE broker does it not? This is not to say I discredit your idea in the least. In fact I've actually thought of a very ideal application for your project. Perhaps a convo in game maybe? The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it. Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D
Labogh Caldari Angelic Industries	Posted - 2006.12.02 13:43:00 - [27] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Balogh Promptly is by definition not possible, as no broker is online 24/7. So if I do a transaction with RESX the outcome would be immediately available in game? No, no player-run website can do that. The outcome of the transaction is immediately available on the site. Quote: That's the difference here mate. You are basically offering a unreal time snapshot of out of game trading that is proprietary and solely controlled by one venue. It is not representative of anything in game until after the "clerk" logs in and does transfers. Sounds alot like the equivalent ESGE broker does it not? It's not supposed to be a snapshot of in-game information. The account information on the RESX site displays what's currently in your account, held by RESX. The EGSE comparison referred to the holding of assets, not to snapshots of any kind.
Ray McCormack BIG	Posted - 2006.12.02 13:52:00 - [28] A problem with transferring shares in-game at the moment, is that it doesn't show up as a wallet transaction, they just appear. So you've no idea who they've come from or when you received them. Now this tends not to be a problem for brokers who's average volume is not that high. One of the technical problems I see for you is dealing in large volumes from one wallet. With regards to the control of said wallet, you would find a lot more people willing to adapt to your system if it was in the hands of a trusted third party. You may need to find someone willing to do all the transactions involved, but I'm sure you could work out a sallery from whatever percentage cut it is you're looking to take. \| BMBE ISK Loans \| the all mighty BIG industrial corp from hell with a slong the size of a walrus...
Balogh Gallente Real-time EVE Stock Exchange	Posted - 2006.12.02 14:00:00 - [29] Originally by: Ray McCormack A problem with transferring shares in-game at the moment, is that it doesn't show up as a wallet transaction, they just appear. So you've no idea who they've come from or when you received them. Now this tends not to be a problem for brokers who's average volume is not that high. I've thought about this problem as well. My solution is to have people who want to deposit shares, only do that after requesting permission to do so. This prevents multiple people from transferring shares at once, or when I'm offline. Quote: With regards to the control of said wallet, you would find a lot more people willing to adapt to your system if it was in the hands of a trusted third party. You may need to find someone willing to do all the transactions involved, but I'm sure you could work out a sallery from whatever percentage cut it is you're looking to take. This is something I'm looking in to.
Shin Ra BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2006.12.02 14:39:00 - [30] Originally by: Balogh Originally by: Ray McCormack A problem with transferring shares in-game at the moment, is that it doesn't show up as a wallet transaction, they just appear. So you've no idea who they've come from or when you received them. Now this tends not to be a problem for brokers who's average volume is not that high. I've thought about this problem as well. My solution is to have people who want to deposit shares, only do that after requesting permission to do so. This prevents multiple people from transferring shares at once, or when I'm offline. Quote: With regards to the control of said wallet, you would find a lot more people willing to adapt to your system if it was in the hands of a trusted third party. You may need to find someone willing to do all the transactions involved, but I'm sure you could work out a sallery from whatever percentage cut it is you're looking to take. This is something I'm looking in to. As no record of shares transferred exists, the system is still open to scamming/human error etc. Furthermore, you have no reputation. I don't think too many people will trust you with their isk/shares. I don't like the idea, its solving one problem but creating many more. And the trust factor is obviously huge.

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