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As of Tuesday, Salvaging will be too easy!

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Spenz Gallente FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.02 02:47:00 - [31] Its not about "improving mechanics", its about the simplification of something that should NOT be for everyone. Its suppose to be a profession, something people specialize in knowing that it is a niche that will bring good to the rest of the EVE community. Its not suppose to be something to make life easier for everyone (like the tractor beams), its suppose to be a profession. I already had the required skills even before Kali came out, but it felt good that my services would actually be required. Now its easier than mining, and way more profitable for most. Some "profession"
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.12.02 03:44:00 - [32] Originally by: Spenz I agree this is stupid. Mech 3 and Survey 3? What part of 'mini-profession' does it say everyone can do it? Like someone said mining is harder to train for than salvaging is going to be. IMO they should have kept it all at V, or maybe mechanic V, survey IV, and Science V. If someone wants to do it as a profession they will train for it. Otherwise the only people whining are the weekend warriors who dont really want to do it but will whine anyways. Maybe they lowered it to make the career viable for newer players, because many older players almost fullfill those current skills requirements anyway, e.g. Mechanic-V is just normal for armor tankers and a requirement for assault ships. Survey ok, not everyone has it, but it's just rank 1. If you say science, it's needed for R&D, implants, capitals etc. and just rank 1. Doesn't really hurt to train it to V. So with those skills as a requirement, most people will train for salvaging anyway, no matter if level 3 or 5 is required. 3 makes it just easier for newbies to get into it. CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix.
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.12.02 04:58:00 - [33] Maybe I'm wrong, but afaik... trianing up salvage skill only makes you salvage at a better percent... as in being possibly quicker... it doesn't give you more yield. You'll still get just as many ships dropping nothing and just as many items pulled off in the salvage. right?
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2006.12.02 05:22:00 - [34] Well, let's put it into perspective... you'll PROBABLY need L4 or even L5 salvaging for the "nicer" salvageable stuff (for instance, L3 is needed for T2 cruiser, and somebody said L4 was not enough for a tier-2 BS). In other words, the joke's on the ones thinking reducing prerequisites (oh noes ONE rank 1 skill you won't be using needed to be at L5) would make it easier... sure, for entry level... but for anything else, you have to work THREE times harder to skill up to L5 salvage to even be able to salvage some of the wrecks you'll encounter. _____ -sig- This is my only char. These are my skills Always question everything, including yourself
Jason Marshall Infinite Innovations Astral Wolves	Posted - 2006.12.02 05:31:00 - [35] Originally by: Verus Potestas Should remain V in at least 2 ranks (I'd personally add Science V as well). Vastly decrease rig requirements. Remove wrecks from NPC ships. Should be engineering over science..... Tacky lens flares in sigs 4tw!
Tarron Sarek Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.02 05:52:00 - [36] Imho.. Wrecks were a nice idea, Rigs were a bad idea, Salvaging was a bad idea. I think the problem with looting made people cry out for easier salvaging, because they wanted to get rid of all the wrecks. CCP should've first fixed looting, then wait and see whether skill prereqs still need modification. What kind of profession is it, if everybody does it? ________________________ - Posting on forums is more arduous than sign language is for a blind man -
Kichae Chandramani Quasar Consortium	Posted - 2006.12.02 06:51:00 - [37] I support this, with a but. I can imagine that starting out in the game and seeing all of these wrecks littered all over the place, and not even being able to touch them, would be confusing and frustrating. Lowering the requirements to use salvagers gives people the ability to see what exactly those hunks of scrap are for. This is good, since it helps clear out the husks that litter space that everyone's whining about -- the more people that can do that, the better, I'm sure. However, I want to see a wider array of salvager skills. Make it something that we can specialize in. Let us specialize in Frigate Wreck Recovery, or Gallante Ship Salvage. Give us Salvage Drones that are needed to retrieve certain kinds of salvage. It's not hard to go to a junk yard and pull out an alternator; coming away with a steering column is a bit more complicated, and takes more skill. To get the computer, you need special and more sophisticated tools. And to get these things from a Toyota you need to know that things are a little different than if you're trying to get them from a BMW. Make it easy to dabble in, but more time consuming to be truly good at. With low skills, we can get things like Tritanium Alloy or Scrap Metal. Higher skills let us pull out wrecked modules and other salvage. Hell, expand it even further! Let us salvage destroyed modules, and components that'll let us fix them. If a ship was using a 1MN Afterburner, with the right skills there's no reason why we shouldn't be able to get a Destroyed 1MN Afterburner and possibly some Afterburner Fragments that, when combined together give us a working 1MN Afterburner again. "Low level" salvage could also be used to get rid of the "no salvage" problem. At this point, many of us would be rip roaringly pleased to get scrap metal or scrap modules that could be refined or recycled, just to be rewarded for trying. All in due time, I'm hoping. Currently, by the sounds of things (and by running a couple L2 myself), missions have been nerfed with a big timesink hit, which I don't think is fair. As much as I support mission runners dragging along a salvage sidekick to clean up their messes for them, it's a **** off for both parties involved to not know whether there's loot still in the hanger. I feel this is the most important thing to deal with at the moment. Wrecks are awesome, IMO. Combing through 50 of them to get a Ships Log or a Civilian Shield Booster is not. Following that up with 0 - 5 barrels of Lorentz Fluid is a kick in the teeth.
Moonaru Izu	Posted - 2006.12.02 08:04:00 - [38] I have to agree with some other poster above. I was one of the few that trained the necessary skills to lvl 5 before Revalations hit so that I would be ready for salvaging. Seeing as they promoted this as a new mini-profession I thought that this would be at least something that you could/had to specialise in, but in the end time time- and skill-investment would pay off. This whole thing took away about 15 days of skill training for me. /rant mode on Now, before I even have enough materials to make a rig (let alone have the time to train the skills for equiping it) they already nerf it to such a level that within a week everybody will be able to do this. I cannot help feeling being mislead on this. I lost a good number of training days which are now (kinda) useless. Days I surely would have spent differently if I would have known this in advance. I kinda get the feeling that CCP to easily forgets that people, whom have actually trained up the current needed skill levels actually PAID for these training days. However, I hope (probably in vain) that they have some compensation in mind for us but even a response to this post would be appreciated /rant mode off wanders off shopping hoping to find a Recon Probe launcher
Miss Overlord Gallente Ferrum Pugnus New Eve Order	Posted - 2006.12.02 08:06:00 - [39] CCP just bent over to the whiners again ( remember the RAM chip debacle where they rolled over) These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views This is a disclaimer
The Snowman Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2006.12.02 08:52:00 - [40] If they have decided to change it, then changing it sooner rather than later is better! <------------> Poker RPG 60 jumps 'Flop' by..
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.02 09:14:00 - [41] npcs should drop the equivalent wreck / components as a player with 2 mill sp flying a badly fitted cruiser (usually with the wrong guns, both shield and armour hardened with the wrong module fitted for increasing gun damage) as there about the same level to kill. *Before complaining about any ship try flying Minmatar*
OneSock	Posted - 2006.12.02 09:15:00 - [42] Did CCP really intend this to be a mini profession or just a means for rig production ? Seems to me they wanted to implement rigs so created salvaging as a means for collecting the raw materials needed for the rigs. However, I don't think they really thought it through. Problem as I see it is that rigs need a heck of a lot of salvage and as it stands at the moment due to skill requirements and the time required to salvage anything, there is simply not enough raw materials on the market to make rigs cost effective. If we continue down the current road, you will see rigs cost almost as much as the ship itself, 20mill plus. So they have to reduce the skill reqs to get more people salvaging. I think that's the wrong way to do it to be honest. Leave the skills reqs as they are. Make salvaging easier. Make rig production easier. A combination of some or all of the following: 1. All wrecks contain basic salvage materials, this way we don't waste time on worthless wrecks. 2. increase chance to salvage/cycle time. 3. decrease rig bpo material requirements. 4. wrecks don't drop for structures (which do not contain salvage anyway). As it stands at the moment, changing the skill reqs does not alter the fact that salvaging even with Lv3 and 3x salvagers mounted is a monumental waste of time. You can make more isk running another mission rather than taking ages to salvage one.
MOOstradamus	Posted - 2006.12.02 09:26:00 - [43] Edited by: MOOstradamus on 02/12/2006 09:26:49 Originally by: CCP With the introduction of rigs, you can tailor your shipÆs capabilities to excel at a specific role, and specialize your character in the new Salvager or Rigs Manufacturer professions. Because of rigs, ship destruction is now integrated into the economy. Both player and NPC ships will leave shipwrecks, which can be salvaged for materials required to manufacture rigs. Additionally, new rig technology levels will be accessible through Invention. Survey L3 does not make me feel particularly special MOOCIFER Emerald/Alpha Oldtimer
Rab	Posted - 2006.12.02 09:38:00 - [44] I cant say im too bothered about it being made easier. I trained survey 5 up a few weeks ago after board trolling what would be needed, but I can see that salvaging is really considered a must have skill for anyone that isn't pure miner. at least it seems that almost everyone I know is training the skills up now. 2 things I would like to see. To balance out the training some people have already done, how about a second skill with Survey 5 Mech 5 as prerequisites that improves the yield a little, 4% a level on a rank 5 skill maybe, something like? The other thing I would like to see is more range on the salvaging kit, or perhaps an improved expensive option that has a tractor beam built in? (perhaps even with the same two L5 pre reqs as before?) Its present setup is the equivalent to having to sit for up to a minute to loot a can before moving on, more range would at least allow emptying of other wrecks while waiting for one to be salvaged. - In an infinite universe, everything is definite. -
Befounder FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.02 09:45:00 - [45] great, lvl3 in rank1 skills is what, couple hours each? why dont they make the life easier for whiners and just remove the prereqs? components are already a pain to gather, and now they are bashing the industrialists by giving out a possible income to pretty much everybody. it is a mini-profession not God given talent!!! there is no worse death than the end of hope
Tao Han Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2006.12.02 09:59:00 - [46] Originally by: Befounder great, lvl3 in rank1 skills is what, couple hours each? why dont they make the life easier for whiners and just remove the prereqs? components are already a pain to gather, and now they are bashing the industrialists by giving out a possible income to pretty much everybody. it is a mini-profession not God given talent!!! Word, dawg /gangsta pose
Xanja 2H Industries	Posted - 2006.12.02 10:30:00 - [47] If it is meant to be a mini profession, the skills should really not that be easy to obtain. I assume the Devs ADD kicked in and they want more people to test it quickly, so they can balance it. Not a wise move imo. -----------------
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2006.12.02 10:30:00 - [48] Why shouldnt salvaging destroyed ships be easy lol? What next you gonna lobby that looting wreacks be hard also?
Hakera Anari Higard	Posted - 2006.12.02 10:38:00 - [49] I do not see it as a bad move myself (perhaps a little unneccessary but maybe useful in terms of getting the salvage and rig production founded), if its a profession then the base skills will provide you with limited success, the next tiers of skills will be harder and require lvl 5 pre-requisites. Lets say to just use a salavger it is lvl 3 survey & mechanic 3 but that provides a limited success or uses some sort of refining forumula which affects the result of the salvage so what you get is fairly crappy, say 1 unit here and there of basic hull composite, maybe an engine coil occasionally. The next teir would require lvl 5 survey, lvl 5 mechanic, lvl 5 science + a whole bunch of lvl 4's which give you access to the next teir of skills which affect your salvage chance and success. Then you move on, add a T2 salvage ship with salvage drones and scanners with more pre-requisites, add more difficult hard to get to componants which may then require unique refining skills and so on. To me, how the profession gets started isnt really material if it takes 7 hours to start of or 5 days. Its how the next teirs are planned and how the refine or drop rate is calculated according to the skills, modules present.
Fester Addams Minmatar	Posted - 2006.12.02 10:46:00 - [50] The prereqs for salvage is as people point out not all that much to start with, lev V in 2 skills will seem tough for a new player but for those that have played for a while its not all that bad, its what... a week of training, two tops. Dropping the reqs for survay to III is odd, I would have thought they would drop it down to IV but... As for it being a mini proffession... No mini proffession in this game is based on a single skill, this meens salvaging is a specialization of an old one... mainly mining. As people have pointed out there will also be other limitations on the action, the skill reqs to salvage larger ships is one example however I sincerly hope this is not a factor... rather it would be neat if the higher skill would give you access to the rarer rig components (Im asuming there will be a component rarity) wich meens that at skill I you can salvage any ship but you can only ever get the most basic stuff out of it while with skill V you can salvage all types of components but the rarest can still only be found in the largest ships. Anyhow, the main thing to define how salvage should work is how rare the devs want rigs to be. I see that the basic jury rig skill is very low prereq and all T1 ships seem to have 3 slots, this tells the tale of a great demand for rigs comming. Demand as we all know is one of the main price deciders in this game meens we have to have a steady supply or the rigs will be inzanely expensive. In the end I think dropping the survey V req is a good thing and as for III or IV... well thats about what 17hr difference... Witchever way it will be, I will not be able to complete survey V by tuesday so Im happy to be able to try salvaging out then and not thursday-friday at wich time it would be if I had to train the skill to lev V.
Maggot Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.12.02 11:16:00 - [51] :( specialisation ftw
Varis Jericho Fraction	Posted - 2006.12.02 11:28:00 - [52] Originally by: Hakera I do not see it as a bad move myself (perhaps a little unneccessary but maybe useful in terms of getting the salvage and rig production founded), if its a profession then the base skills will provide you with limited success, the next tiers of skills will be harder and require lvl 5 pre-requisites. Lets say to just use a salavger it is lvl 3 survey & mechanic 3 but that provides a limited success or uses some sort of refining forumula which affects the result of the salvage so what you get is fairly crappy, say 1 unit here and there of basic hull composite, maybe an engine coil occasionally. The next teir would require lvl 5 survey, lvl 5 mechanic, lvl 5 science + a whole bunch of lvl 4's which give you access to the next teir of skills which affect your salvage chance and success. Then you move on, add a T2 salvage ship with salvage drones and scanners with more pre-requisites, add more difficult hard to get to componants which may then require unique refining skills and so on. To me, how the profession gets started isnt really material if it takes 7 hours to start of or 5 days. Its how the next teirs are planned and how the refine or drop rate is calculated according to the skills, modules present. very well put. I'm not bothered about the start, just like anyone can use a miner I from game start - just make sure ccp that you introduce the equivalent of stripminers and mining barges for salvaging :)
Actanna Levh	Posted - 2006.12.02 11:48:00 - [53] Early information seems to suggest there is different component rarity and I can't help but wonder whether the drop rates may need tweaking overall. Its going to take me ages (working solo) to build even one rig and so I'm having an excitement reduction happening already. As a manufacturer I think it would be a good feature if wrecks could be salvaged for minerals. At the moment I find myself looking at at destroyed Angel battleship as well as the message "Found no salvage" and thinking that I still see a hell of a lot of metal plating sitting right there in front of me. I have survey 5 but no major objection to the reduction in pre-requisites. I think salvaging is going to be a patience game not a skills based one.
Hydrian Alante The Loot Company	Posted - 2006.12.02 11:52:00 - [54] Hey CCP can I have my 4 days of skilltraing for Survey V back? kthxbye
Lord Frost Minmatar The Crystal Method	Posted - 2006.12.02 12:35:00 - [55] Originally by: Hydrian Alante Hey CCP can I have my 4 days of skilltraing for Survey V back? kthxbye Only if 10,000s of others can have their years of reseach time back for the cargo II bpo...
Serious Bob	Posted - 2006.12.02 12:59:00 - [56] Hay ccp I didn't know where to put this, but can I please have the sp I have in gunnery reinstated? I currently have gunnery lvl 2 and I trained those 1415 sps under the FALSE ASSUMPTION (I use caps here because this is important) that gunnery rocked. The week after you introduced the new hax missile skills so I trained that instead. Now my gunnery sp is WASTED!
Smagd Encina Technologies Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.02 13:10:00 - [57] Originally by: Bunny Wunny yet another thing that everyone will be able to do within a day. Man, I don't even remember what I got Survey V for. Was nice to see a useless skill made half worth the time. -- Thukkers do
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.12.02 13:12:00 - [58] It's a pretty weak change TBH. Salvaging was supposed to be a mini-profession, ie something that you go slightly out of your way to do. The prereqs were in line with the other miniprofessions. Then, everyone and their dog decided they wanted to do salvage, but didn't want to train Survey V (because, let's face it, pretty much everyone has Mech V already). What does this tell you? That all these people don't really care enough about salvaging to spend 5 days training it, and if they don't care that much, they'll get bored of it quickly. The end result of the change will be that the people who actually do want to salvage will keep on doing it, and most of the people who're complaining the requirements are too high will try it for a few days, realise that it means you have to sit still and salvage for five minutes at the end of every mission, and get bored of the whole thing and never do it again. The net difference between lowering the reqs and not lowering the reqs is a couple of thousand people doing salvaging for two to three weeks, and making people who have trained for it and do want to do it feel mildly short-changed and less special than they otherwise would. Further, it means that when people actually do need a salvager, everyone and their dog will jump at it, and the guy who's been diligently training up for it will probably be one jump too far away to be involved.
Benco97 Gallente Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2006.12.02 13:16:00 - [59] I'm not going to complain about the reqs changing.. i'm used to having the needed skills BEFORE something gets introduced and then seeing those level 5's drop to 3's, it will continue to happen I suppose. An increase to the rate at which the components can be found would be good though, it's painfully slow even with my Salvaging level 4 (Yes, I will be taking it to 5 just like I did for Archaeology and Hacking)to get the 100's of parts needed to make a rig. "MY GOD KEEP THIS AWAY FROM BENCO97!!!!!" - Constantine Arcanum
Agrias Hellion Diligentia Sodalitas	Posted - 2006.12.02 13:18:00 - [60] Edited by: Agrias Hellion on 02/12/2006 13:20:11 Good change in my opinion. They add wrecks from the get go for players and for the new player wanting to start in this profession the requirements took the ****. Don't blame people pushing for a change, blame the devs for yet again adding new content without thinking of the bigger picture, yet again. New content is good, noone can disagree with that but the dev's don't really think of the impact of it. PP: Bit of an arse for the people who preplanned the training for it, but then again you know what Eve is like by now.

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