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Vendorella
University of Caille
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Posted - 2006.12.01 23:23:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Vendorella on 01/12/2006 23:26:28
Edited by: Vendorella on 01/12/2006 23:23:50
I would recommend making the requirements level 4 in each, not 3....
It is supposed to be a mini-profession...
(From Patch Notes) The Salvaging skill requirements have been lowered to Mechanic level 3 and Survey level 3.
Stupid alt!
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Leno
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.12.01 23:26:00 -
[2]
it's a level 1 skill, either way it's still easy
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RIP - Smoske, My Friend
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Paddlefoot Aeon
Neogen Industries
Serenity Fallen
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Posted - 2006.12.01 23:27:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Leno
it's a level 1 skill, either way it's still easy
I'm talking about the skill required before you learn the salvage skill...
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.12.01 23:28:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 01/12/2006 23:28:38
Yeah, level 4 or 3 wont matter. Im not sure why they lowered it actually... sure people were whining a bit, but it will not be a subprofession if its just a level 3 rank 1 skill. Even Mining takes longer to train for.
Maybe they will release some additional skills later on, like with mining.
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Verus Potestas
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2006.12.01 23:29:00 -
[5]
Should remain V in at least 2 ranks (I'd personally add Science V as well).
Vastly decrease rig requirements.
Remove wrecks from NPC ships.
Between corps atm, the NPC one is strictly a temporary thing.
RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
Omega Vistage
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Posted - 2006.12.01 23:31:00 -
[6]
nope... will be great. At the current pace it'll be months before rigs hit the market in numbers and even then they would cost hundreds of millions a piece. |
Brolly
Caldari
The Department of Justice
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Posted - 2006.12.01 23:47:00 -
[7]
Be too easy?, seriously?.
Salvaging is a painful time sink imho, maybe i'm a tad bitter about getting very little at salvage 3. Still, i'll train to four in the vain hope it will be useful, if not, then sack it off as one of the worst game design moments in gaming history 
Still, hopefully exploration will be worth the time, isk and effort involved, don't think i'll bother with it until I have the relevant skills to 4 at least 
Meh, I hate whinging but the new stuff really sucks.
If I had ś1 for every intelligent comment posted in general discussion, I'd be hideously in debt |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.12.01 23:50:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Brolly
Still, hopefully exploration will be worth the time, isk and effort involved, don't think i'll bother with it until I have the relevant skills to 4 at least
Get Astrometrics V, its basicly needed for exploration...
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Tarski
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Posted - 2006.12.02 00:00:00 -
[9]
I say salvaging should atleast have met 5 added and science 5 and keep the standard reqs they are fine as they are. ive been salvaging since kali came out and have over 250 parts all common bs techs apart from 20 -30 circuit boards. I think also the drop rate is fine as the salvaging skill gets better as you go along. When i think about how rare these items will be ....mmmmmm iskies
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.02 00:07:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Brolly
Be too easy?, seriously?.
Salvaging is a painful time sink imho, maybe i'm a tad bitter about getting very little at salvage 3. Still, i'll train to four in the vain hope it will be useful, if not, then sack it off as one of the worst game design moments in gaming history
Still, hopefully exploration will be worth the time, isk and effort involved, don't think i'll bother with it until I have the relevant skills to 4 at least
Meh, I hate whinging but the new stuff really sucks.
No need to get bitter now. To quote Oveur: (here)
Originally by: Oveur
We're monitoring the drop-rate of Rig components, stay tuned.
I imagine it comes pre-nerfed, so as not to flood the market. Its much better for the health of the game to start too low and tweak it up, than to start too high and tweak it down.
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ghosttr
Amarr
Resource Control Agency
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Posted - 2006.12.02 00:07:00 -
[11]
i immediatly started me research on rig bps, hope i can get to the materials faster.
I don't have a problem with authority...
...as long as it doesn't get in my way. |
Temo Jick
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Posted - 2006.12.02 00:35:00 -
[12]
How fun is salvaging? Answer: Not fun at all. IĘve spent a total of about 12 hours just salvaging wrecks since the patch (picking up BM's from corpies after they finish level 4s). And I canĘt imagine that this is a job that could possibly get any more exciting with experience. Dare I say even mining roids is moderately more fun, at least there is a shiny laser graphic to look at.
Salvaging needs to be more rewarding. If fewer people can do it Rigs and their components will be more valuable, hence more rewarding. If more people can do it... well obviously it will be less rewarding.
I donĘt mind the skills requirements being dropped but if thatĘs going to happen I would like some skills to allow parts to be salvaged successfully more often, or a module. Having to salvage components for a rig that is the only thing you can fit to your ship toą salvage yet more componentsą dang I just can not get excited about that I really cant.
And how about a shiny laser graphic? Pretty please maybe something in blue.
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ReaperOfSly
Gallente
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.02 01:11:00 -
[13]
At least it gives you something to do while waiting for the rats to respawn 
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Magden
Gallente
M'8'S
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Posted - 2006.12.02 01:17:00 -
[14]
I read elsewhere on the forums that mission wrecks have much lower drop rates than belt rats and player wrecks. Maybe that is the problem.
On another note, to change the skill requirements like that, so soon, is lame.
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Spenz
Gallente
FIRMA
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.02 01:19:00 -
[15]
I agree this is stupid. Mech 3 and Survey 3? What part of 'mini-profession' does it say everyone can do it? Like someone said mining is harder to train for than salvaging is going to be.
IMO they should have kept it all at V, or maybe mechanic V, survey IV, and Science V. If someone wants to do it as a profession they will train for it. Otherwise the only people whining are the weekend warriors who dont really want to do it but will whine anyways.
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Maestro Ulv
Phaze-9
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Posted - 2006.12.02 01:25:00 -
[16]
Well I dont have survey 5 and was training it.. of course ive left it at 4 now.
However, I agree completely that this is a stupid move. Keep it as something you need to train for. Science V, Mech V and survey 5 are fine by me. This isnt tractors, this is something people can specialise in.
Ill keep my survey off though, nothing said here will make any difference.
I'm not bored, I'm merely in the Queue. |
Kylania
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.02 01:27:00 -
[17]
hehe, finished Survey V this morning! rawr!
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Lil Miner
Newbie Skills Roadmap | CCG Card Lookup |
Kaden Seer
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.02 01:32:00 -
[18]
I like their decision, have you completed training on all other skills, already? Come on, everything takes long enough as it is.
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Spenz
Gallente
FIRMA
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.02 01:34:00 -
[19]
If people whined about how long stuff took to train all the time, then the forums would be closed down due to bandwidth overload.
Seriously....EVERYTHING takes long to train. a 'profession' should NOT be an exception to the rule.
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Krxon Blade
Caldari
Bigg's Loyal Knight's
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Posted - 2006.12.02 01:35:00 -
[20]
Agreed.
It is spit in the eye to players which allready trained it to l5 (like me), as it was when they lowered needed skills for tractors beams. If someone wants to use specialised module he shoould spent some time to get it, and not to just whine then got it delivered on silver plate by CPP
I still dont like CPP move by giving 800k of sps to nOObs without doing same thing for older players, and especialy to give them free l5 skills.
If nerfing of EVE continues, it will kill best part of EVE: Hardcoreness.
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Bigg's Loyal Knight's
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Magden
Gallente
M'8'S
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Posted - 2006.12.02 01:37:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Magden on 02/12/2006 01:38:35
The main reason I am ****ed is that I am one hour away from Survey V, which I trained from IV solely for salvaging... So that's four days that served no purpose.
...And what Kryxon said, heh :)
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Stephar
The High Priest
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Posted - 2006.12.02 01:37:00 -
[22]
Great change. People that disagree are just sadistic.
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
In Articulo Mortis
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Posted - 2006.12.02 01:51:00 -
[23]
Can I please get the 5 days I wasted on Survey 5 back now please? Oh, and the day and half on Survey 4?
FOR THE EMPEROR!
The Fourth NtV (Noob to Vet) Lottery |
spagbol
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Posted - 2006.12.02 01:57:00 -
[24]
you have gotta be taking the pi**
not only do they give new chars a bonus... they nerf the skill requirements for older players AFTER they release the patch...
grrrrr... this game makes me sooo mad sometimes...
move the goalposts AGAIN why dont you.. screw the vet's that have funded this progression in the game... make it easiyer for new players that may OR maynot stick around!!!
reward the vets for a change... we paid good money to get where we have got to...
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Jaguar Dragon
Blood Association of Dragons
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Posted - 2006.12.02 01:57:00 -
[25]
survey will help in scaning for deadspace ,,its not a waist to train lvl5,
i have survey lvl5, mechanics lvl5, salvage at lvl3 and helped a copr m8 collect loot and salvage,, i use 4 salvagers and i took to trys to get a salvage result,, which was nothing there in wreck worth salvaging,, but it was not slow, however over all the wrecks it was slow, when getting nothing |
Bunny Wunny
Gallente
Freelancer Union
Unaffiliated
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Posted - 2006.12.02 02:00:00 -
[26]
yet another thing that everyone will be able to do within a month.
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Osiriis
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Posted - 2006.12.02 02:03:00 -
[27]
Shame on you CCP for making decent requirements (Mech V and Survey V) and then bowing down to appease the mass that doesn't want to train for a specific function.
While you're at it, why don't you give new characters Battleship IV and 200 million ISK. I had neither Mechanic or Survey trained to V and I don't mind spending the time to train them in order to use a salvager. As in most cases, your first instinct to set those training requirements were correct.
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Pan Crastus
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Posted - 2006.12.02 02:04:00 -
[28]
Those who were most interested and eager to try the new content get screwed again (since they wasted a couple of days of training).
/me don't like.
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Cupertino
Castellum
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Posted - 2006.12.02 02:06:00 -
[29]
This topic is further proof that people will complain whatever you do. If you think 4 days of your skill training time is more important than improving Eve's mechanics for the rest of us, you're sadly mistaken.
On a more constructive note, if you've trained survey to 5, you can now get archaeology, which is a very useful skill at the moment.
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Venalic Erus
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Posted - 2006.12.02 02:09:00 -
[30]
i can see the petition system being totally overloaded if they continue with this descision....
I certainly will be petitioning for wasted SP...
For such an important part of the game, in respect of the new rigs... to suddenly change it all is down right... << fill in own response >>
if they had made the descision pre-patch there would not have been a single complaint.. now there will be thousands..
way to go CCP!! thanks...
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Spenz
Gallente
FIRMA
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.02 02:47:00 -
[31]
Its not about "improving mechanics", its about the simplification of something that should NOT be for everyone. Its suppose to be a profession, something people specialize in knowing that it is a niche that will bring good to the rest of the EVE community. Its not suppose to be something to make life easier for everyone (like the tractor beams), its suppose to be a profession. I already had the required skills even before Kali came out, but it felt good that my services would actually be required. Now its easier than mining, and way more profitable for most.
Some "profession"
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Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.12.02 03:44:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Spenz
I agree this is stupid. Mech 3 and Survey 3? What part of 'mini-profession' does it say everyone can do it? Like someone said mining is harder to train for than salvaging is going to be.
IMO they should have kept it all at V, or maybe mechanic V, survey IV, and Science V. If someone wants to do it as a profession they will train for it. Otherwise the only people whining are the weekend warriors who dont really want to do it but will whine anyways.
Maybe they lowered it to make the career viable for newer players, because many older players almost fullfill those current skills requirements anyway, e.g. Mechanic-V is just normal for armor tankers and a requirement for assault ships. Survey ok, not everyone has it, but it's just rank 1. If you say science, it's needed for R&D, implants, capitals etc. and just rank 1. Doesn't really hurt to train it to V.
So with those skills as a requirement, most people will train for salvaging anyway, no matter if level 3 or 5 is required. 3 makes it just easier for newbies to get into it.
CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix. |
Lord Frost
Minmatar
The Crystal Method
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Posted - 2006.12.02 04:58:00 -
[33]
Maybe I'm wrong, but afaik... trianing up salvage skill only makes you salvage at a better percent... as in being possibly quicker... it doesn't give you more yield. You'll still get just as many ships dropping nothing and just as many items pulled off in the salvage.
right?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2006.12.02 05:22:00 -
[34]
Well, let's put it into perspective... you'll PROBABLY need L4 or even L5 salvaging for the "nicer" salvageable stuff (for instance, L3 is needed for T2 cruiser, and somebody said L4 was not enough for a tier-2 BS).
In other words, the joke's on the ones thinking reducing prerequisites (oh noes ONE rank 1 skill you won't be using needed to be at L5) would make it easier... sure, for entry level... but for anything else, you have to work THREE times harder to skill up to L5 salvage to even be able to salvage some of the wrecks you'll encounter.
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-sig-
This is my only char. These are my skills
Always question everything, including yourself |
Jason Marshall
Infinite Innovations
Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2006.12.02 05:31:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Verus Potestas
Should remain V in at least 2 ranks (I'd personally add Science V as well).
Vastly decrease rig requirements.
Remove wrecks from NPC ships.
Should be engineering over science.....
Tacky lens flares in sigs 4tw! |
Tarron Sarek
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.02 05:52:00 -
[36]
Imho..
Wrecks were a nice idea,
Rigs were a bad idea,
Salvaging was a bad idea.
I think the problem with looting made people cry out for easier salvaging, because they wanted to get rid of all the wrecks.
CCP should've first fixed looting, then wait and see whether skill prereqs still need modification.
What kind of profession is it, if everybody does it?
________________________
- Posting on forums is more arduous than sign language is for a blind man - |
Kichae Chandramani
Quasar Consortium
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Posted - 2006.12.02 06:51:00 -
[37]
I support this, with a but.
I can imagine that starting out in the game and seeing all of these wrecks littered all over the place, and not even being able to touch them, would be confusing and frustrating. Lowering the requirements to use salvagers gives people the ability to see what exactly those hunks of scrap are for. This is good, since it helps clear out the husks that litter space that everyone's whining about -- the more people that can do that, the better, I'm sure.
However, I want to see a wider array of salvager skills. Make it something that we can specialize in. Let us specialize in Frigate Wreck Recovery, or Gallante Ship Salvage. Give us Salvage Drones that are needed to retrieve certain kinds of salvage. It's not hard to go to a junk yard and pull out an alternator; coming away with a steering column is a bit more complicated, and takes more skill. To get the computer, you need special and more sophisticated tools. And to get these things from a Toyota you need to know that things are a little different than if you're trying to get them from a BMW.
Make it easy to dabble in, but more time consuming to be truly good at. With low skills, we can get things like Tritanium Alloy or Scrap Metal. Higher skills let us pull out wrecked modules and other salvage. Hell, expand it even further! Let us salvage destroyed modules, and components that'll let us fix them. If a ship was using a 1MN Afterburner, with the right skills there's no reason why we shouldn't be able to get a Destroyed 1MN Afterburner and possibly some Afterburner Fragments that, when combined together give us a working 1MN Afterburner again.
"Low level" salvage could also be used to get rid of the "no salvage" problem. At this point, many of us would be rip roaringly pleased to get scrap metal or scrap modules that could be refined or recycled, just to be rewarded for trying.
All in due time, I'm hoping. Currently, by the sounds of things (and by running a couple L2 myself), missions have been nerfed with a big timesink hit, which I don't think is fair. As much as I support mission runners dragging along a salvage sidekick to clean up their messes for them, it's a **** off for both parties involved to not know whether there's loot still in the hanger. I feel this is the most important thing to deal with at the moment. Wrecks are awesome, IMO. Combing through 50 of them to get a Ships Log or a Civilian Shield Booster is not. Following that up with 0 - 5 barrels of Lorentz Fluid is a kick in the teeth.
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Moonaru Izu
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Posted - 2006.12.02 08:04:00 -
[38]
I have to agree with some other poster above. I was one of the few that trained the necessary skills to lvl 5 before Revalations hit so that I would be ready for salvaging.
Seeing as they promoted this as a new mini-profession I thought that this would be at least something that you could/had to specialise in, but in the end time time- and skill-investment would pay off. This whole thing took away about 15 days of skill training for me.
/rant mode on
Now, before I even have enough materials to make a rig (let alone have the time to train the skills for equiping it) they already nerf it to such a level that within a week everybody will be able to do this.
I cannot help feeling being mislead on this. I lost a good number of training days which are now (kinda) useless. Days I surely would have spent differently if I would have known this in advance. I kinda get the feeling that CCP to easily forgets that people, whom have actually trained up the current needed skill levels actually PAID for these training days.
However, I hope (probably in vain) that they have some compensation in mind for us but even a response to this post would be appreciated
/rant mode off
*wanders off shopping hoping to find a Recon Probe launcher* 
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Miss Overlord
Gallente
Ferrum Pugnus
New Eve Order
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Posted - 2006.12.02 08:06:00 -
[39]
CCP just bent over to the whiners again ( remember the RAM chip debacle where they rolled over)
These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views
This is a disclaimer |
The Snowman
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.12.02 08:52:00 -
[40]
If they have decided to change it, then changing it sooner rather than later is better!
<------------>
Poker RPG
60 jumps 'Flop' by.. |
slothe
Caldari
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.02 09:14:00 -
[41]
npcs should drop the equivalent wreck / components as a player with 2 mill sp flying a badly fitted cruiser (usually with the wrong guns, both shield and armour hardened with the wrong module fitted for increasing gun damage) as there about the same level to kill.
Before complaining about any ship try flying Minmatar |
OneSock
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Posted - 2006.12.02 09:15:00 -
[42]
Did CCP really intend this to be a mini profession or just a means for rig production ?
Seems to me they wanted to implement rigs so created salvaging as a means for collecting the raw materials needed for the rigs. However, I don't think they really thought it through.
Problem as I see it is that rigs need a heck of a lot of salvage and as it stands at the moment due to skill requirements and the time required to salvage anything, there is simply not enough raw materials on the market to make rigs cost effective. If we continue down the current road, you will see rigs cost almost as much as the ship itself, 20mill plus.
So they have to reduce the skill reqs to get more people salvaging. I think that's the wrong way to do it to be honest. Leave the skills reqs as they are. Make salvaging easier. Make rig production easier.
A combination of some or all of the following:
1. All wrecks contain basic salvage materials, this way we don't waste time on worthless wrecks.
2. increase chance to salvage/cycle time.
3. decrease rig bpo material requirements.
4. wrecks don't drop for structures (which do not contain salvage anyway).
As it stands at the moment, changing the skill reqs does not alter the fact that salvaging even with Lv3 and 3x salvagers mounted is a monumental waste of time. You can make more isk running another mission rather than taking ages to salvage one.
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2006.12.02 09:26:00 -
[43]
Edited by: MOOstradamus on 02/12/2006 09:26:49
Originally by: CCP
With the introduction of rigs, you can tailor your shipĘs capabilities to excel at a specific role, and specialize your character in the new Salvager or Rigs Manufacturer professions. Because of rigs, ship destruction is now integrated into the economy. Both player and NPC ships will leave shipwrecks, which can be salvaged for materials required to manufacture rigs. Additionally, new rig technology levels will be accessible through Invention.
Survey L3 does not make me feel particularly special
MOOCIFER Emerald/Alpha Oldtimer |
Rab
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Posted - 2006.12.02 09:38:00 -
[44]
I cant say im too bothered about it being made easier. I trained survey 5 up a few weeks ago after board trolling what would be needed, but I can see that salvaging is really considered a must have skill for anyone that isn't pure miner. at least it seems that almost everyone I know is training the skills up now.
2 things I would like to see. To balance out the training some people have already done, how about a second skill with Survey 5 Mech 5 as prerequisites that improves the yield a little, 4% a level on a rank 5 skill maybe, something like?
The other thing I would like to see is more range on the salvaging kit, or perhaps an improved expensive option that has a tractor beam built in? (perhaps even with the same two L5 pre reqs as before?)
Its present setup is the equivalent to having to sit for up to a minute to loot a can before moving on, more range would at least allow emptying of other wrecks while waiting for one to be salvaged.
- In an infinite universe, everything is definite. - |
Befounder
FATAL REVELATIONS
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.02 09:45:00 -
[45]
great, lvl3 in rank1 skills is what, couple hours each? why dont they make the life easier for whiners and just remove the prereqs? components are already a pain to gather, and now they are bashing the industrialists by giving out a possible income to pretty much everybody. it is a mini-profession not God given talent!!!
there is no worse death than the end of hope |
Tao Han
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2006.12.02 09:59:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Befounder
great, lvl3 in rank1 skills is what, couple hours each? why dont they make the life easier for whiners and just remove the prereqs? components are already a pain to gather, and now they are bashing the industrialists by giving out a possible income to pretty much everybody. it is a mini-profession not God given talent!!!
Word, dawg
/gangsta pose
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Xanja
2H Industries
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Posted - 2006.12.02 10:30:00 -
[47]
If it is meant to be a mini profession, the skills should really not that be easy to obtain.
I assume the Devs ADD kicked in and they want more people to test it quickly, so they can balance it. Not a wise move imo.
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.12.02 10:30:00 -
[48]
Why shouldnt salvaging destroyed ships be easy lol? What next you gonna lobby that looting wreacks be hard also?
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Hakera
Anari Higard
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Posted - 2006.12.02 10:38:00 -
[49]
I do not see it as a bad move myself (perhaps a little unneccessary but maybe useful in terms of getting the salvage and rig production founded), if its a profession then the base skills will provide you with limited success, the next tiers of skills will be harder and require lvl 5 pre-requisites.
Lets say to just use a salavger it is lvl 3 survey & mechanic 3 but that provides a limited success or uses some sort of refining forumula which affects the result of the salvage so what you get is fairly crappy, say 1 unit here and there of basic hull composite, maybe an engine coil occasionally.
The next teir would require lvl 5 survey, lvl 5 mechanic, lvl 5 science + a whole bunch of lvl 4's which give you access to the next teir of skills which affect your salvage chance and success.
Then you move on, add a T2 salvage ship with salvage drones and scanners with more pre-requisites, add more difficult hard to get to componants which may then require unique refining skills and so on.
To me, how the profession gets started isnt really material if it takes 7 hours to start of or 5 days. Its how the next teirs are planned and how the refine or drop rate is calculated according to the skills, modules present.
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Fester Addams
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.12.02 10:46:00 -
[50]
The prereqs for salvage is as people point out not all that much to start with, lev V in 2 skills will seem tough for a new player but for those that have played for a while its not all that bad, its what... a week of training, two tops.
Dropping the reqs for survay to III is odd, I would have thought they would drop it down to IV but...
As for it being a mini proffession...
No mini proffession in this game is based on a single skill, this meens salvaging is a specialization of an old one... mainly mining.
As people have pointed out there will also be other limitations on the action, the skill reqs to salvage larger ships is one example however I sincerly hope this is not a factor... rather it would be neat if the higher skill would give you access to the rarer rig components (Im asuming there will be a component rarity) wich meens that at skill I you can salvage any ship but you can only ever get the most basic stuff out of it while with skill V you can salvage all types of components but the rarest can still only be found in the largest ships.
Anyhow, the main thing to define how salvage should work is how rare the devs want rigs to be.
I see that the basic jury rig skill is very low prereq and all T1 ships seem to have 3 slots, this tells the tale of a great demand for rigs comming.
Demand as we all know is one of the main price deciders in this game meens we have to have a steady supply or the rigs will be inzanely expensive.
In the end I think dropping the survey V req is a good thing and as for III or IV... well thats about what 17hr difference...
Witchever way it will be, I will not be able to complete survey V by tuesday so Im happy to be able to try salvaging out then and not thursday-friday at wich time it would be if I had to train the skill to lev V.
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Maggot
Minmatar
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.12.02 11:16:00 -
[51]
:(
specialisation ftw
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Varis
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2006.12.02 11:28:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Hakera
I do not see it as a bad move myself (perhaps a little unneccessary but maybe useful in terms of getting the salvage and rig production founded), if its a profession then the base skills will provide you with limited success, the next tiers of skills will be harder and require lvl 5 pre-requisites.
Lets say to just use a salavger it is lvl 3 survey & mechanic 3 but that provides a limited success or uses some sort of refining forumula which affects the result of the salvage so what you get is fairly crappy, say 1 unit here and there of basic hull composite, maybe an engine coil occasionally.
The next teir would require lvl 5 survey, lvl 5 mechanic, lvl 5 science + a whole bunch of lvl 4's which give you access to the next teir of skills which affect your salvage chance and success.
Then you move on, add a T2 salvage ship with salvage drones and scanners with more pre-requisites, add more difficult hard to get to componants which may then require unique refining skills and so on.
To me, how the profession gets started isnt really material if it takes 7 hours to start of or 5 days. Its how the next teirs are planned and how the refine or drop rate is calculated according to the skills, modules present.
very well put.
I'm not bothered about the start, just like anyone can use a miner I from game start - just make sure ccp that you introduce the equivalent of stripminers and mining barges for salvaging :)
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Actanna Levh
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Posted - 2006.12.02 11:48:00 -
[53]
Early information seems to suggest there is different component rarity and I can't help but wonder whether the drop rates may need tweaking overall. Its going to take me ages (working solo) to build even one rig and so I'm having an excitement reduction happening already.
As a manufacturer I think it would be a good feature if wrecks could be salvaged for minerals. At the moment I find myself looking at at destroyed Angel battleship as well as the message "Found no salvage" and thinking that I still see a hell of a lot of metal plating sitting right there in front of me.
I have survey 5 but no major objection to the reduction in pre-requisites. I think salvaging is going to be a patience game not a skills based one.
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Hydrian Alante
The Loot Company
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Posted - 2006.12.02 11:52:00 -
[54]
Hey CCP can I have my 4 days of skilltraing for Survey V back?
kthxbye
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Lord Frost
Minmatar
The Crystal Method
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Posted - 2006.12.02 12:35:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Hydrian Alante
Hey CCP can I have my 4 days of skilltraing for Survey V back?
kthxbye
Only if 10,000s of others can have their years of reseach time back for the cargo II bpo... 
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Serious Bob
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Posted - 2006.12.02 12:59:00 -
[56]
Hay ccp I didn't know where to put this, but can I please have the sp I have in gunnery reinstated? I currently have gunnery lvl 2 and I trained those 1415 sps under the FALSE ASSUMPTION (I use caps here because this is important) that gunnery rocked. The week after you introduced the new hax missile skills so I trained that instead. Now my gunnery sp is WASTED!
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Smagd
Encina Technologies
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.12.02 13:10:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Bunny Wunny
yet another thing that everyone will be able to do within a day.
Man, I don't even remember what I got Survey V for. Was nice to see a useless skill made half worth the time.
--
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Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2006.12.02 13:12:00 -
[58]
It's a pretty weak change TBH. Salvaging was supposed to be a mini-profession, ie something that you go slightly out of your way to do. The prereqs were in line with the other miniprofessions. Then, everyone and their dog decided they wanted to do salvage, but didn't want to train Survey V (because, let's face it, pretty much everyone has Mech V already).
What does this tell you? That all these people don't really care enough about salvaging to spend 5 days training it, and if they don't care that much, they'll get bored of it quickly. The end result of the change will be that the people who actually do want to salvage will keep on doing it, and most of the people who're complaining the requirements are too high will try it for a few days, realise that it means you have to sit still and salvage for five minutes at the end of every mission, and get bored of the whole thing and never do it again.
The net difference between lowering the reqs and not lowering the reqs is a couple of thousand people doing salvaging for two to three weeks, and making people who have trained for it and do want to do it feel mildly short-changed and less special than they otherwise would. Further, it means that when people actually do need a salvager, everyone and their dog will jump at it, and the guy who's been diligently training up for it will probably be one jump too far away to be involved.
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Benco97
Gallente
Multiverse Corporation
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Posted - 2006.12.02 13:16:00 -
[59]
I'm not going to complain about the reqs changing.. i'm used to having the needed skills BEFORE something gets introduced and then seeing those level 5's drop to 3's, it will continue to happen I suppose.
An increase to the rate at which the components can be found would be good though, it's painfully slow even with my Salvaging level 4 (Yes, I will be taking it to 5 just like I did for Archaeology and Hacking)to get the 100's of parts needed to make a rig.
"MY GOD KEEP THIS AWAY FROM BENCO97!!!!!" - Constantine Arcanum |
Agrias Hellion
Diligentia Sodalitas
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Posted - 2006.12.02 13:18:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Agrias Hellion on 02/12/2006 13:20:11
Good change in my opinion. They add wrecks from the get go for players and for the new player wanting to start in this profession the requirements took the ****.
Don't blame people pushing for a change, blame the devs for yet again adding new content without thinking of the bigger picture, yet again.
New content is good, noone can disagree with that but the dev's don't really think of the impact of it.
PP: Bit of an arse for the people who preplanned the training for it, but then again you know what Eve is like by now.
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JazmanKills
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Posted - 2006.12.02 13:46:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Plutoinum
Edited by: Plutoinum on 02/12/2006 05:03:37
Maybe they lowered it to make the career viable for newer players, because many older players almost fullfill those current skills requirements anyway, e.g. Mechanic-V is just normal for armor tankers and a requirement for assault ships. Survey ok, not everyone has it, but it's just rank 1. If you say science, it's needed for R&D, implants, capitals, mining/refining etc. and just rank 1. Doesn't really hurt to train it to V.
So with those skills as a requirement, most people will train for salvaging anyway, no matter if level 3 or 5 in one of those rank-1 skills is required. 3 makes it just easier for newbies to get into it.
Fine, you want to make it easier for new players?!? Lower the requirement from Mechanic 5 to Mechanic 3.
I don't hear a single person complaining about the Mechanic pre-req. Why? Because yes, most people have it. If every experienced player can just train for 4 hours and do this mini-profession then yes, it is a joke.
CCP - leave the requirement as is or if you want to make it easier for new people, lower the mechanic requirement.
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Galifardeua
Gallente
Completament Tarats
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Posted - 2006.12.02 14:09:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Xanja
If it is meant to be a mini profession, the skills should really not that be easy to obtain.
A mini profession should not be easy to obtain? A mini-profession, just like a regular profession, should be easy to start, and hard to be proficient with.
Mining: you just need mining I
Industrialist: industry I
Fighter: X frigate I, gunnery I, small X turret I (for example)
Yes, you can start this low, but you won't be good at it. Someone on this thread has stated that you need higher levels of salvage to get items from higher grade wrecks, so that's where the importance resides, not on the prerequisites needed.
No, I didn't know the prerequisites beforehand and I'm training surevy IV right now.
But I think that lower prerequissites would be good, so that newbies can see in their first days whether they like it or not. And help with the litter too. Wrecks losing propiety after some time so that anybody could savage them would be nice.
(needing higher survey and mechanic for better salvager turrets could be an option)
Have fun.
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Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2006.12.02 14:21:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Galifardeua
Originally by: Xanja
If it is meant to be a mini profession, the skills should really not that be easy to obtain.
A mini profession should not be easy to obtain? A mini-profession, just like a regular profession, should be easy to start, and hard to be proficient with.
Mining: you just need mining I
Industrialist: industry I
Fighter: X frigate I, gunnery I, small X turret I (for example)
Yes, you can start this low, but you won't be good at it. Someone on this thread has stated that you need higher levels of salvage to get items from higher grade wrecks, so that's where the importance resides, not on the prerequisites needed.
No, I didn't know the prerequisites beforehand and I'm training surevy IV right now.
But I think that lower prerequissites would be good, so that newbies can see in their first days whether they like it or not. And help with the litter too. Wrecks losing propiety after some time so that anybody could savage them would be nice.
(needing higher survey and mechanic for better salvager turrets could be an option)
Have fun.
The current miniprofessions I'm aware of are Salvaging, Hacking and Archaeology.
Salvaging requires Mech V and Survey V. Hacking requires Science V and Electronics Upgrades V. Archaeology requires Survey V and Science V. In each case you need two rank 1 skills to level V, and in each case the relevant miniprofession skill is the only thing you can train to improve it, and it only increases chance of success (and allows you access to harder sites).
Miniprofessions are an exactly delimited group of specific Eve skills, which are all currently uniform in their requirements. Mining is not a miniprofession. Industrialist is not a miniprofession. Fighter is not a miniprofession.
If CCP is serious about miniprofessions, they should probably their guns on this one and keep the reqs as they are. Or, at the very most, drop it to Mech 3/4 and keep Survey V. If they're just meant to be stunted skill trees with no special significance, then by all means, carry on, and maybe drop the reqs for the other two too to make them available to everybody as well.
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Gareth Angel
Deep Space Exploration Guild
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Posted - 2006.12.02 14:33:00 -
[64]
Lots of decent relpies here - I agree with one kind:
"Mini-professions" imho may take some time to train for. Lowering the requirements for salvaging sounds a bit lame to me too. Now everyone can do it with ease; bye bye mini-profession.
As stated above; the other mini-professions require at least two lvl 5 skills as well (which can be learned without too much trouble - but SOME trouble nevertheless - welcome to the world of mini-professions!), so as far as I'm concerned, please leave the requirements in place as they are, or I'll start complaining that I want the skill requirements for motherships lowered as well, only because I cannot fly one right now...
Same difference...
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Freaky Bare
Minmatar
Blueprint Haus
Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2006.12.02 14:54:00 -
[65]
They are not going to lower the skills.
What I would love to se them do is require more slots to do it effectively. In mining you can do it in a T1 frig from day one, you just are not very good at it. (pre-patch of course) Require several slots worth of modules to salvage and you effectively require dedicated salvage ships.
Minnies would excel at this, of course, since our ships already look like they belong in a salvage yard. 
I am not an Alt, I am punctuation. |
Alha Qmar
Caldari
Xenon Logistics
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Posted - 2006.12.02 14:59:00 -
[66]
lvl 5 for this skill was dull, you also dont need lvl 5 of a skill to use a tractor beam.
It still is a mini profesion, as you'll need more advanced skills to build rigs with them.
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Benco97
Gallente
Multiverse Corporation
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Posted - 2006.12.02 15:05:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Alha Qmar
lvl 5 for this skill was dull, you also dont need lvl 5 of a skill to use a tractor beam.
Tractor Beams used to have much harsher Reqs but people whined and they were reduced.
"MY GOD KEEP THIS AWAY FROM BENCO97!!!!!" - Constantine Arcanum |
Hellspawn01
Amarr
The Phantom Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.02 15:25:00 -
[68]
First all is fine, then they lower the skill reqs to make it easier for new pilots and you older pilots start whining, you egoists.
Ship lovers click here |
MrBadidea
Caldari
The Children of Lilith
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Posted - 2006.12.02 16:00:00 -
[69]
I want my 4~ Days of training back on Salvaging 5.
I'm serious 
---
Sig removed, please keep it within 400x120 pixels, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
Kichae Chandramani
Quasar Consortium
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Posted - 2006.12.02 17:46:00 -
[70]
Originally by: MrBadidea
I want my 4~ Days of training back on Salvaging 5.
I'm serious
And I want the time difference between training 4 rank 5 skills to level 4 and training 4 rank 4 skills to level 4, due to the change in learning skills rank, but it's not going to happen. Pick up Archaeology and smile. You've opened a new door to explore.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2006.12.02 18:06:00 -
[71]
Originally by: MrBadidea
I want my 4~ Days of training back on Salvaging 5.
I'm serious
Want some cheese with that???
Personally, I think the only change that should be done to Salvaging is that Survey should be lowered from level 5 to level 4, and then add Metallurgy at level 3 (which requires Science 4). That would make is a small bit easier, while training some useful skills at the same time.
That way you'd still have to put in some training time, but in more useful skills for other purposes.
General advice: Stop whining! |
Shayla Etherodyne
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Posted - 2006.12.02 18:54:00 -
[72]
I think the reduction of prerequisies was done for the mass of players seeing those wrecks and not knowing what to do. Looting and leaving them is very fastidious, but not much people has a compiacent corpmate available to salvage the wrecks from a mission.
Not that it will really change much, as most people wouldn't spend the time and high slot needed to salvage.
Obviously I am speaking of missions, as ratting in belts is different.
In a belt usually the wreckage is dispersed in a 20-30 km area at most, in a mission it can be more tha 250 km from a end point to the other, and 3/4 of the missions don't give salvage.
Apparently the kind of salvage is enemy variable too (Shansa giving different salvage from Serpentis, and so on), so in theory commerce will be stimulated.
I say in theory as with the current time needed/salvage recovered of about 20 units in 1 hour of salvaging the average price will be high.
Even mining veldspater I can make about 1,5 millions in a hour, so an average of 75K for the salvage unit is a minimum price.
We probably will end with an hangar full of common pieces and regularly hunt for the good ones we are missing, so the price of the rare oones will go in the millions. not strange in EVE, but that will limit the use of rigs.
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Shayla Sh'inlux
Gallente
The Black Rabbits
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Posted - 2006.12.04 00:26:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Benco97
Originally by: Alha Qmar
lvl 5 for this skill was dull, you also dont need lvl 5 of a skill to use a tractor beam.
Tractor Beams used to have much harsher Reqs but people whined and they were reduced.
Reason for that was not because it was hard to train (just needed Science 5), but because the skill involved was Graviton Physics which is not an NPC-sold item but rather a mission reward.
The result was that the 100 books on the market went up from 300k to 30mil in a day. Instead of just seeding the book or making a new skill, CCP instead lowered the skill requirement.
Originally by: "Cy4n1d3"
You can't PVP with 4 mids.
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Hakera
Anari Higard
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Posted - 2006.12.04 02:45:00 -
[74]
Professions arnt about how they start, its about how they progress. You need a baseline salvage ability availible to the majority in order to get the industry going. This may provide a relatively mediocre return at that skill level which will be continously balanced in the same way refining works as time passes.
Even if you trained to lvl 5, it is by no means a waste at all imo. As sooner or later the next level will be availible which will bring in possibly exponential returns compared to the baseline. And that next level will want high skill requirements which you have already got the headstart with.
These foundation skills are not high rank skills, its not a big choice or consequence to train them and even if the gains in the beginning are not apparant, they will be soon if professions and escalating paths and all that stuff is progressed right.
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Drutort
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.04 03:17:00 -
[75]
why is everyone crying over this... i think salvaging atm is a joke and doesnĘt even work as a mini profession... what they need is several advanced skills and t2 modules and so on... to improve it and make it worthwhile to train... i believe this req drop is a good idea... it just lets everyone have a chance to salvage but to make it a profession they need far more skills and far greater yield then right now...
as right now its not really a profession at lvl5 or lvl3 it doesnĘt matter, to make it a profession it should require dedicated training and dedicated fitting/ship for something like that and a good investment should return far greater yield
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Zen Takore
Gallente
Adult Entertainment Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.12.04 13:03:00 -
[76]
I quite fancy a titan, any chance we could take a look at this too? The price is a little steep also, any chance of a nerf?
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Boyakasha! |
The Major
Caldari
StateCorp
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Posted - 2006.12.04 13:15:00 -
[77]
Salvaging is not a mini-profession.
Rigging is a mini-profession. Rigging requires the skills.
In order to get the wealth of parts you will need to make Rigging a viable business you will want as many people as possible salvaging and then selling the parts on the market.
If you're going to complain about anything complain that it's too easy to build the Rigs not that it's too easy to get the parts.
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Sendraks
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.12.04 13:30:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Hellspawn01
First all is fine, then they lower the skill reqs to make it easier for new pilots and you older pilots start whining, you egoists.
Have to agree with this. As much as I am for Eve being a game that requires a real investment from the player, the intial version of the revelations patch wasn't very "newbie friendly." While I think that perhaps Survey 3 is too low a pre-req (and I agree with the idea of switching the reqs to Mech III and Survey V) its still a big time investment for a new player who, right now, just see wrecks as annoyance and yet another aspect of the game they can't interact with.
While training survey III might not seem like a lot to the players with huge amounts of SP, it is a fair old chunk of time to a newbie and a deviation from the main stuff they will be training for.
As for the suggestion that NPC ships should not make wrecks, I see where this suggestion is going. It will, in effect, create another "uber market" like the T2 market for those players able to obtain the materials. I think one such market is enough.
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Twilight Moon
Minmatar
Malicious Intentions
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Posted - 2006.12.04 13:35:00 -
[79]
Ah ffs. I've got it going to Level 5 already on my ALT. 
(Empty Space - Thinking) |
JeanPierre
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Posted - 2006.12.04 13:39:00 -
[80]
Heysoos Marumba, you people will complain about anything!
It's a T1 component you're making here. Seriously. Look at the BPO's. T1. Honest injun.
I don't envy the life of an MMORPG developer. Lose if you do, lose if you don't, either way somebody is going to get their panties in a wad and cry and stomp their feet and hold their breath. Geesh.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Aerial Boundaries Inc.
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.04 14:12:00 -
[81]
I'm not directly affected by the change, as I made the decision not to train for or otherwise invest in any of the new stuff until it stabilisied, as something like this was inevitable.
However, I also don't want to see the requirements dropped. I'd rather it be a proper profession and face into a couple of Lv5's to get into it, than it being something everyone does, in which case I might not even bother.
The idea of making the basics available to anyone but the good stuff requiring specialisation is also a good option.
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IBTL \o/
EVE is upside down!
WTZ+Slower Warp=Win |
Drutort
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.04 16:03:00 -
[82]
Originally by: The Major
Salvaging is not a mini-profession.
Rigging is a mini-profession. Rigging requires the skills.
In order to get the wealth of parts you will need to make Rigging a viable business you will want as many people as possible salvaging and then selling the parts on the market.
If you're going to complain about anything complain that it's too easy to build the Rigs not that it's too easy to get the parts.
thats what i thought, its like saying using a mining laser is a mini profession no... you need far greater skills and ships to make it a profession, using basic mining laser is not a profession hence using just this salvage module is not a mini profession... i agree that building them and fitting them is the profession more so...
to make salvaging a mini profession you need far greater skills and maybe a module or a ship that gives it bonus but req quite a bit of investment in time and isk.
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Halya Lamina
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Posted - 2006.12.04 16:29:00 -
[83]
I am quite a new player in EVE and I too agree with most that reducing the skill requirement is a bad move to those whom trained to be able to salvage.
BUT, if CCP were to ditch the idea of lowering the requirement, I would like them to introduce back the loot cans. So when ships gets blownup, they now drop a wreck AND a loot can if there's any loot to be found. So for those who can't be bothered to salvage can just tractor the loot can in and be on their way.
Currently, wrecks are just a PITA for those who do not want to salvage but wants the loots.
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Sinnbad Mayhem
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Posted - 2006.12.04 16:32:00 -
[84]
I kinda agree with OP. Easy mode is not good.
Wrecks should be for significant ships and more random, making the profession more valuable.
Shuttle wrecks should be replaced by loot cans as should most ratting ships. Too many wrecks cheapens the experience.
S&M |
Uncle AlFresco
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.04 17:11:00 -
[85]
I understand the leetzors wanting to keep their advantage, but won't all those unsalvaged wrecks (if noobs can't salvage) hangin' around in space contribute to a load on the server, maybe increasing lag? Just a rhetorical question, but maybe that's why the req's are being lowered.
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Typhis Deterious
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Posted - 2006.12.04 18:08:00 -
[86]
It is nice to have mech 5 and survey 5 and get scrap metal :(
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2006.12.04 18:35:00 -
[87]
Salvaging has to be easy, so that enough players participate to drive down prices enough to ensure that rigs dont cost too much.
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Friends Forever
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Quin Tal
Fort Knox Inc
Expeto Libertas Foedus
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Posted - 2006.12.04 18:38:00 -
[88]
The skill is easy, Salvaging is still time consuming and takes a long time to get what you want from a wreck.
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