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Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
267
   |
Posted - 2015.07.20 09:54:34 -
[1] - Quote
Once the Vulnerability window closes any further entosis cycles should automatically fail.
The presence of this vulnerability "kiting" defeats the purpose of the vulnerability window: to allow groups to actually sleep/work/live life. |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
267
|
Posted - 2015.07.20 23:11:45 -
[2] - Quote
Poranius Fisc wrote:Tabyll Altol wrote:Please explain what you mean with that. And second of all have you tried to fight them ? they should be slower than you because of the mass. You can use ewar on everything subcapital. But that would mean you need to be active and risk something.
-1 for the idea I think, what he is saying is that if A alliance attack B alliance towards the end of an vulnerability window, it keeps an "open session" with that entosis that will exist past the vulnerability window. and with a brute force attack, A alliance can swap active entosis links, therefore increasing the window. so, whole B alliance has their window from 00:00 - 04:00, A alliance can shift it well out of B alliance's active window. People spend months using agents to track people and supercap's to kill, so it is easily feasible that they might find a time when no one is on to defend, or maybe they get a lucky break and find a window and activate this tactic. Moving a vulnerability window a couple hours can seriously affect everyone except the power blocs. As for the Ewar works on everything sub-capitol; if you set this up, you just need enough ships to alpha Ewar before they can lock and stop your entosis pilot.
An excellent explanation. Thank you. |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
267
|
Posted - 2015.07.21 01:37:51 -
[3] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Poranius Fisc wrote:
I think, what he is saying is that if A alliance attack B alliance towards the end of an vulnerability window, it keeps an "open session" with that entosis that will exist past the vulnerability window. and with a brute force attack, A alliance can swap active entosis links, therefore increasing the window. so, whole B alliance has their window from 00:00 - 04:00, A alliance can shift it well out of B alliance's active window.
People spend months using agents to track people and supercap's to kill, so it is easily feasible that they might find a time when no one is on to defend, or maybe they get a lucky break and find a window and activate this tactic. Moving a vulnerability window a couple hours can seriously affect everyone except the power blocs.
As for the Ewar works on everything sub-capitol; if you set this up, you just need enough ships to alpha Ewar before they can lock and stop your entosis pilot.
At which point alliance A has fairly solid control of the grid and this isn't a single troll entosis link but a significant attack, and alliance B needs to get their ass into gear and defend.
Or the attacker should get their act together an not attack at the end of the vulnerability period.
Main issue is that the "overtime" period can be extended indefinitely, thus kitted, to the point that the defender cannot effectively defend simply because life takes precedence over the game. Sort of the reason the vulnerability window was created to begin with. While it might not be an issue for alliances with players in everytime zone, it is an issue for alliances that are more time-zone specific.
If anything there needs to be a hard limit to the overtime period CCP added to prevent abuse of it. |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
267
|
Posted - 2015.07.21 19:37:39 -
[4] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Doesn't this just mean a shorter vulnerability window?
Absolutely not. They have, at a minimum, 4 hours to establish grid control. Past that, it simply gets into bad planning on the attackers part.
There is no shortening of the vulnerability window. At present, the way the situation stands, the vulnerability window can be extended to the point that there are no defenders left on the field because, well, they might have to go to work.
I think people are forgetting the purpose of the vulnerability window: a compromise to allow an attacker to attempt to take space from a defender during a predictable time period. The Defender will really need to be on to defend their space while actually not having to live and breathe EVE online 24/7 - which is what vulnerability kiting effectively will force anyone to do to defend their space - even if it is one system they control. |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
269
|
Posted - 2015.07.22 07:01:11 -
[5] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:I have changed my stance on the issue and I now believe the system is fine as-is. If the defenders can prevent the aggressors from having entosis links running even for a moment outside the vulnerability window, the structure should go invulnerable. If the defenders cannot do this, they have essentially lost the fight anyway.
I would chalk it up to: the defender lost to a superior force as well, but from what I understand is that the Command Nodes then spawn, not based on the initialization of the Entosis link at the end of the Vulnerability window but when, at the leisure of the attacker, they choose to initialize the final link that sets the structure into reinforce. This means that the Command Nodes can be forced to spawn no where near the defenders actual time zone. Thus vulnerability window has been effectively kitted.
This has been tested with great success by my sources. |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
271
|
Posted - 2015.08.10 22:47:37 -
[6] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:I agree that there should be some home team advantages after the vulnerability window ends, if the structure is still vulnerable. I'd say if people vulnerability kite occasionally but the vast majority of attacks happen during the window, the system is working. But if vulnerability kiting is a frequently-used tactic, the home team needs stronger advantages during the rest of the day.
I see the initial attack, the initial Entosis attack that is, as the start. The 24 hour delay between the "initial" Entosis attack that succeeds in reinforcing the structure is to allow the defender time to organize if they happen to have been attacked on an off day. Basically, the defenders chance to recover from the attack. The problem with kitting the vulnerability window is that it makes it extremely difficult for the defender to recover if the command nodes spawn outside their play time and they simply cannot be there for real life reasons.
I agree that a superior force should win. But the issue is not fielding a superior force in real life but in a game. The game itself should not be competing with real life.
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Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
272
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 02:10:07 -
[7] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:Defend your space
I could be 58 minutes into a 60 minute RF cycle and you can take it back to zero and make it invunerable by a 10 min cycle.
If this isn't worth it to you, maybe you should think about having less sov
Not really what we are talking about. What we are talking about is a neat little trick that moves the spawning of the command nodes into a time zone favorable to the attacker long after the vulnerability window closed. |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
272
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 18:50:39 -
[8] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:AskariRising wrote:it seem apparent to me that those defending the current situation are most likely abusing it already.
the fact is that the timer does not work as intended if it can be extended. you can not argue this fact. the mechanics should be changed to reflect the intended design. The timer being extended was a TOUTED DESIGN FEATURE figuring prominently in the blogs IT WAS THE DESIGN Please point me to a system in which you **think** this was abused
The timer being extended is one thing.
The fact that the Command nodes can then be kitted to spawn at the polar opposite of the vulnerability window is another. |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
272
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 21:49:21 -
[9] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:Petrified wrote:Kenneth Feld wrote:AskariRising wrote:it seem apparent to me that those defending the current situation are most likely abusing it already.
the fact is that the timer does not work as intended if it can be extended. you can not argue this fact. the mechanics should be changed to reflect the intended design. The timer being extended was a TOUTED DESIGN FEATURE figuring prominently in the blogs IT WAS THE DESIGN Please point me to a system in which you **think** this was abused The timer being extended is one thing. The fact that the Command nodes can then be kitted to spawn at the polar opposite of the vulnerability window is another. PLEASE link a system as i have kited timers all over the place, both during the duality test and TQ and on Duality it acted like you describe, on TQ, I haven't witnessed this
Let me pose this question to you: when you kited the timers and successfully reinforced past the vulnerability window, did the command nodes spawn during the vulnerability window or after the time you reinforced? And when you kitted, how many hours did you kite past the vulnerability window?
I ask, because my information came from an alliance member I trust. So an error on their part would be... unsettling.
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Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
272
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 22:59:29 -
[10] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Ask your firiend 3 questions:
1. What was the original RF timer of the defending alliance?
2. What was the vulnerability window at the time of RF?
3. What time did the structure come out of RF?
If you notice the timer isn't important as long as it gets you the desired time of day depending on how you kited
Already have asked. Waiting for a reply.
Thank you for the info, by the way. |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
273
|
Posted - 2015.08.14 18:43:34 -
[11] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:Olly Olly Oxen Free
Come out, come out, wherever you are
There is a certain someone in my alliance who will have to provide solid proof next time he makes claims. I concede your argument based on the experience you presented until such a time as there is evidence to the contrary. |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
274
|
Posted - 2015.08.14 23:49:50 -
[12] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:Petrified wrote:Kenneth Feld wrote:Olly Olly Oxen Free
Come out, come out, wherever you are There is a certain someone in my alliance who will have to provide solid proof next time he makes claims. I concede your argument based on the experience you presented until such a time as there is evidence to the contrary. Thank you Don't be so hard on him, one of the reasons I just didn't berate you from the beginning was that this is new, most people don't have a whole lot of time with it and get confused by what they see vs what they think vs what they know from dominion.
I never berate. Just change alter how much I take at face value. |
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