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Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
272
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 02:10:07 -
[31] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:Defend your space
I could be 58 minutes into a 60 minute RF cycle and you can take it back to zero and make it invunerable by a 10 min cycle.
If this isn't worth it to you, maybe you should think about having less sov
Not really what we are talking about. What we are talking about is a neat little trick that moves the spawning of the command nodes into a time zone favorable to the attacker long after the vulnerability window closed. |

Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2545
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 02:42:32 -
[32] - Quote
If that's true, it needs to be fixed.
Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom
Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm
The Succubus looks meaner
But the Revenant cleaner
Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1781
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 05:44:31 -
[33] - Quote
Petrified wrote:Kenneth Feld wrote:Defend your space
I could be 58 minutes into a 60 minute RF cycle and you can take it back to zero and make it invunerable by a 10 min cycle.
If this isn't worth it to you, maybe you should think about having less sov Not really what we are talking about. What we are talking about is a neat little trick that moves the spawning of the command nodes into a time zone favorable to the attacker long after the vulnerability window closed.
Which can't happen if you defend it. |

AskariRising
ROGUE RELICS
70
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 11:21:07 -
[34] - Quote
it seem apparent to me that those defending the current situation are most likely abusing it already.
the fact is that the timer does not work as intended if it can be extended. you can not argue this fact. the mechanics should be changed to reflect the intended design. |

afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1782
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 11:26:14 -
[35] - Quote
I fail to see how you can make that assertion when the devblogs explicitly called out this feature.
Again, if someone leaves it to the last minute to entosis your **** and you do NOT respond, don't blame the mechanics.
If you do respond, you then entosis your stuff back and voilla, invulnerable until next time.
Start showing up to contest timers, stop ignoring pings and this will not happen.
I mean if nothing else, when there is actually a big fight over something, putting a gun to the attackers heads saying "you must comprehensively win within 3 hours or reset" is ludicrous. |

Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
289
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 12:47:21 -
[36] - Quote
Petrified wrote:Kenneth Feld wrote:Defend your space
I could be 58 minutes into a 60 minute RF cycle and you can take it back to zero and make it invunerable by a 10 min cycle.
If this isn't worth it to you, maybe you should think about having less sov Not really what we are talking about. What we are talking about is a neat little trick that moves the spawning of the command nodes into a time zone favorable to the attacker long after the vulnerability window closed.
Your RF time is 48 hours from the time you set for RF +/- a portion of the vulnerability timer window. So, if you had a 16 hour window your RF timer can be 40-56 hours from the time you set for RF
From that time, command nodes spawn and the continue to spawn for 6 hours if no action is taken
If you take action upon the first one spawning, the next spawn immediately
In order to reduce this time, you need to increase your index (USE YOUR SPACE) and then window collapses entirely
This whole kiting **** is people not understanding the mechanics. It worked on duality, but it doesn't and never has on TQ.
I have personally RF'd tons of **** and even if i RF it 12 hours outside the vulnerability window due to kiting, it always has a RF time of 48 hours +/- the vulnerability window |

Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
289
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 16:30:07 -
[37] - Quote
AskariRising wrote:it seem apparent to me that those defending the current situation are most likely abusing it already.
the fact is that the timer does not work as intended if it can be extended. you can not argue this fact. the mechanics should be changed to reflect the intended design.
The timer being extended was a TOUTED DESIGN FEATURE figuring prominently in the blogs
IT WAS THE DESIGN
Please point me to a system in which you **think** this was abused |

Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
272
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 18:50:39 -
[38] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:AskariRising wrote:it seem apparent to me that those defending the current situation are most likely abusing it already.
the fact is that the timer does not work as intended if it can be extended. you can not argue this fact. the mechanics should be changed to reflect the intended design. The timer being extended was a TOUTED DESIGN FEATURE figuring prominently in the blogs IT WAS THE DESIGN Please point me to a system in which you **think** this was abused
The timer being extended is one thing.
The fact that the Command nodes can then be kitted to spawn at the polar opposite of the vulnerability window is another. |

Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
289
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 19:12:04 -
[39] - Quote
Petrified wrote:Kenneth Feld wrote:AskariRising wrote:it seem apparent to me that those defending the current situation are most likely abusing it already.
the fact is that the timer does not work as intended if it can be extended. you can not argue this fact. the mechanics should be changed to reflect the intended design. The timer being extended was a TOUTED DESIGN FEATURE figuring prominently in the blogs IT WAS THE DESIGN Please point me to a system in which you **think** this was abused The timer being extended is one thing. The fact that the Command nodes can then be kitted to spawn at the polar opposite of the vulnerability window is another.
PLEASE link a system as i have kited timers all over the place, both during the duality test and TQ and on Duality it acted like you describe, on TQ, I haven't witnessed this |

Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
272
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 21:49:21 -
[40] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:Petrified wrote:Kenneth Feld wrote:AskariRising wrote:it seem apparent to me that those defending the current situation are most likely abusing it already.
the fact is that the timer does not work as intended if it can be extended. you can not argue this fact. the mechanics should be changed to reflect the intended design. The timer being extended was a TOUTED DESIGN FEATURE figuring prominently in the blogs IT WAS THE DESIGN Please point me to a system in which you **think** this was abused The timer being extended is one thing. The fact that the Command nodes can then be kitted to spawn at the polar opposite of the vulnerability window is another. PLEASE link a system as i have kited timers all over the place, both during the duality test and TQ and on Duality it acted like you describe, on TQ, I haven't witnessed this Let me pose this question to you: when you kited the timers and successfully reinforced past the vulnerability window, did the command nodes spawn during the vulnerability window or after the time you reinforced? And when you kitted, how many hours did you kite past the vulnerability window?
I ask, because my information came from an alliance member I trust. So an error on their part would be... unsettling.
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Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
289
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 22:36:20 -
[41] - Quote
Petrified wrote:Kenneth Feld wrote:Petrified wrote:Kenneth Feld wrote:AskariRising wrote:it seem apparent to me that those defending the current situation are most likely abusing it already.
the fact is that the timer does not work as intended if it can be extended. you can not argue this fact. the mechanics should be changed to reflect the intended design. The timer being extended was a TOUTED DESIGN FEATURE figuring prominently in the blogs IT WAS THE DESIGN Please point me to a system in which you **think** this was abused The timer being extended is one thing. The fact that the Command nodes can then be kitted to spawn at the polar opposite of the vulnerability window is another. PLEASE link a system as i have kited timers all over the place, both during the duality test and TQ and on Duality it acted like you describe, on TQ, I haven't witnessed this Let me pose this question to you: when you kited the timers and successfully reinforced past the vulnerability window, did the command nodes spawn during the vulnerability window or after the time you reinforced? And when you kitted, how many hours did you kite past the vulnerability window? I ask, because my information came from an alliance member I trust. So an error on their part would be... unsettling.
We have kited as much as 8 to 12 hours past the window, Now, once we got a 59 hour timer, but we kited it like 9 hours past the RF timer, and the timer was like 10ish hours I think, so almost ready to come vunerable again, so it must have used the new day as a 48 hour mark and then added the time from before the vunerability window
I know that sounds weird, but it ended up being the alliance set RF timer + 1 hour, but the timer was 59 hours when we RF'd the structure.
The lowest number we have seen is 39 hours I think, maybe 38, that was on a system with a 16 hour vunerability window and we forgot we kited it and hit it in the middle of the 8 hours of overtime. But it still came out at the alliance picked RF timer +/- 8 hours ( I think it was -6 but not exactly sure)
The main problem with this is i think people are relying on the timer they see and don't correlate that information back to the original RF time shown in game. (Dotlan also has the info) So, even though you get a 52 hour timer or a 44 hour timer, it is well within the parameters of the system
Ask your firiend 3 questions:
1. What was the original RF timer of the defending alliance? 2. What was the vulnerability window at the time of RF? 3. What time did the structure come out of RF?
If you notice the timer isn't important as long as it gets you the desired time of day depending on how you kited |

Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
272
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 22:59:29 -
[42] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Ask your firiend 3 questions:
1. What was the original RF timer of the defending alliance? 2. What was the vulnerability window at the time of RF? 3. What time did the structure come out of RF?
If you notice the timer isn't important as long as it gets you the desired time of day depending on how you kited
Already have asked. Waiting for a reply.
Thank you for the info, by the way. |

Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
289
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 23:00:22 -
[43] - Quote
Here is a real life one, although not kited, but it shows the wild nature of timers. I know this exact time cause they killed my ship about 30 seconds after it hit RF
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/L-6W1J
https://zkillboard.com/kill/48382511/ - loss at 0253 on 8-10-2015, system had just gone into vunerability
RF ends at 1535 8-12-2015, this means the timer was 2D 12H 42M or 60 hours 42 minutes
THAT WAS NOT KITED though
Overall the alliance set their RF timer for 1000, so the original window was 0200 to 1800 (16 hours) and the RF exited in that window as well
I will pay attention to the next kited timer I do to get an exact number and try not to lose my ship this time. Obviously we won the competition on Duality and we kited **** from kingdom come and back and we were super excited up until we realized it is a pipe dream on TQ, or maybe we just haven't hit the right circumstance.
I look forward to the data your friend brings forward
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2367
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 23:57:41 -
[44] - Quote
Also ask your friend exactly how the hell their alliance failed to reverse entosis their structure in TWELVE HOURS to put it into reinforced mode. All they have to do is gain control of the grid at the end of their vulnerability window, and entosis the structure themselves. |

Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
289
|
Posted - 2015.08.12 00:08:48 -
[45] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Also ask your friend exactly how the hell their alliance failed to reverse entosis their structure in TWELVE HOURS to put it into reinforced mode. All they have to do is gain control of the grid at the end of their vulnerability window, and entosis the structure themselves.
Actually if it is in overtime, anyone can entosis to take it or defend it |

admiral root
Red Galaxy
3009
|
Posted - 2015.08.12 07:46:57 -
[46] - Quote
Petrified wrote:Or the attacker should get their act together an not attack at the end of the vulnerability period.
Why would anyone in a fight willfully give up an advantage? The idea is to win, is it not?
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
CODE. forum - everyone's welcome (no shiptoasters)
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Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
289
|
Posted - 2015.08.13 13:25:37 -
[47] - Quote
Crickets |

Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
290
|
Posted - 2015.08.14 11:19:35 -
[48] - Quote
Olly Olly Oxen Free
Come out, come out, wherever you are |

Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
273
|
Posted - 2015.08.14 18:43:34 -
[49] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:Olly Olly Oxen Free
Come out, come out, wherever you are
There is a certain someone in my alliance who will have to provide solid proof next time he makes claims. I concede your argument based on the experience you presented until such a time as there is evidence to the contrary. |

Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
290
|
Posted - 2015.08.14 20:25:13 -
[50] - Quote
Petrified wrote:Kenneth Feld wrote:Olly Olly Oxen Free
Come out, come out, wherever you are There is a certain someone in my alliance who will have to provide solid proof next time he makes claims. I concede your argument based on the experience you presented until such a time as there is evidence to the contrary.
Thank you
Don't be so hard on him, one of the reasons I just didn't berate you from the beginning was that this is new, most people don't have a whole lot of time with it and get confused by what they see vs what they think vs what they know from dominion.
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Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
274
|
Posted - 2015.08.14 23:49:50 -
[51] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:Petrified wrote:Kenneth Feld wrote:Olly Olly Oxen Free
Come out, come out, wherever you are There is a certain someone in my alliance who will have to provide solid proof next time he makes claims. I concede your argument based on the experience you presented until such a time as there is evidence to the contrary. Thank you Don't be so hard on him, one of the reasons I just didn't berate you from the beginning was that this is new, most people don't have a whole lot of time with it and get confused by what they see vs what they think vs what they know from dominion.
I never berate. Just change alter how much I take at face value. |
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